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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-02-08

---Logopened Wed Feb 08 00:00:20 2006
00:03<tronix>bdragon: can you post contents of your /etc/conf.d/net file, without the comments?
00:03<tronix>should be pretty short, couple lines or so
00:04<Bdragon28>It's a heavily modified slackware.... I just noticed that /dev is being populated by udev instead of being static like I'm used to....
00:04<tronix>bdragon28: my bad, I must've misread. :)
00:04<tronix>bdragon28: ahhh
00:04<Bdragon28>I'm enabling hotplugging to see if that fixes it.
00:04<tronix>good deal
00:04<Bdragon28>and no, I'm also bdragon
00:05<Bdragon28>I thought cgi:irc might have hung, so I started a second client ;)
00:05<Bdragon28>right now, I'm pasting a uuencoded file into lish
00:05<Bdragon28>Kinda hard to install packages without having a network device :/
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00:11<warewolf>uuenocde ftp!
00:11<warewolf>the xfer protocol of script kiddies who want to drop files w/o logging anything :)
00:12<Bdragon28>the only protocol that doesn't actually need network access :P
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00:23<Bdragon28>Meh, changed the kernel to 2.6.15-linode16 and it's working.....
00:23[~]Bdragon28 is reminded why he tends to use NetBSD.
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00:29<Bdragon28>Ah, wonderful, it's working now. :D
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02:53<linbot>New news from forums: Customer Service - The Last Resort (Open Letter) in Customer Testimonials <>
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08:19<ericdes>Hello! I'm under very high load average... I'm not sure how long it'll take to reboot... What should I do?
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08:38<[|^__^|]>Pikachu, J'accuse!
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09:57<linbot>New news from forums: CentOS4 installations: rpm database corruption in General Discussion <>
10:42<linbot>New news from forums: Can I share .. New here in General Discussion <>
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10:44<mxpxpod>are there any plans to offer ubuntu's server edition for a distribution?
10:59<JasonF>I don't believe so
10:59<JasonF>but you might be able to start with stock debian and change the apt sources
10:59<JasonF>and see if there's a way to convert it over
10:59<JasonF>or heck, for that matter, create a small debian distro and an empty disk image
11:00<JasonF>and install ubuntu server into the empty disk image
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11:21<linbot>New news from forums: Bug In Network Graphs in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
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11:37<mxpxpod>JasonF: how do you transfer the disk image over?
11:37<ericdes_>You're sending this message to the wrong person...
11:39<mxpxpod>ericdes_: huh?
11:40<ericdes_>I'm sorry I thought you had sent a private message.
11:40<mxpxpod>I'll be right back... gotta restart ff
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11:46<mxpxpod>JasonF: so what is this disk image thing you were telling me about?
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12:01<tierra>mxpxpod: actually, I wouldn't doubt server edition makes it onto Linode at some point in the near future, though I have heard no plans on it yet.
12:04[~]Redgore thinks a way of voting by members for wanted distro's would be a cool idea
12:08<tierra>mxpxpod: if you know what your doing, it is possible to either deploy a Debian small configuration, create a new empty partition, and copy over an image from an outside source of any distro of your choice. You can also setup a Finnix configuration and do the same.
12:15<Battousai>you people and your finnix
12:15<@mikegrb>the exisiting ubuntu image is quite close to ubuntu's server edition
12:21<tierra>I'd assume at some point that the existing Ubuntu image will just be replaced by a newer release of server edition (not soon, but eventually)
12:22<@mikegrb>"server edition" didn't exist when it was made
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13:05<mxpxpod>so, I could just install ubuntu 4.10 and upgrade to 5.10 and it should go fine?
13:10<anderiv>mxpxpod: yah - dist-upgrade should be able to take care of that I believe.
13:11<JasonF>don't see why not
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13:55<@mikegrb>mmm cake
13:55<tronix>it was a piece of cake.. did that other day.
14:02<@mikegrb>mmm cake
14:02<fo0bar>tronix: what kind of cake?
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14:06[~]tronix thinks
14:06[~]tronix hms.
14:06<tronix>lemon, definitely. ;)
14:06<@mikegrb>mmm cake
14:06<tronix>mmm cake
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16:03<phraktyl>glibc compile, take 2: Booted up on the 2.6.15-linode16 yesterday and am still getting a set_thread_area error when I compile glibc with gcc 3.4.4 under Gentoo. /lib/tls doesn't exist. Any suggestions?
16:12<@mikegrb>phraktyl: that is a tls related error
16:12<@mikegrb>if you moved /lib/tls to /lib/tls-disabled and then have run lddconfig since then it is possible that it found the other dir
16:13<@mikegrb>would suggest removing the dir completely
16:13<@mikegrb>also check that /usr/lib/tls doesn't exist
16:13<@mikegrb>and then rerun ldconfig
16:13<@caker>phraktyl: or maybe try latest-2.4
16:15<phraktyl>Sorry---turned around for a minute.
16:15<phraktyl>Don't have a /usr/lib/tls directory.
16:15<phraktyl>Actually, I don't have anything matching /lib/tl* or /usr/lib/tl*.
16:17<phraktyl>Can the latest 2.4 use the nptl? I thought that was only a 2.6 thing.
16:20<@mikegrb>none of them can use nptl
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16:21<robertj>heya all. Is anyone here running breezy?
16:21<phraktyl>mikegrb: none of them 2.4? Or none of the linode kernels period?
16:21<@mikegrb>none of the linode kernels
16:22<@mikegrb>uml doesn't support nptl
16:23<phraktyl>Ahhh. That may make a difference. So far, most have what I have read (not UML specific, apparently) have said to use both "nptl" and "nptlonly" flags. :(
16:24<phraktyl>So, I'm going to add "-ntpl" and do this all over again...
16:26[~]robertj just put his application in, I've heard real good things
16:27<kvandivo>whew.. we can stop talking it up now
16:34<@caker>robertj: welcome!
16:36<robertj>sweet, off to play with my web frontend
16:36<robertj>I wonder how long it will be till I get this thing unbootable ;)
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16:37<robertj>(btw, if you are installing from a chroot, make sure it's not recursively bound before rm -rfing the old root
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16:38<tronix>phraktyl: I run Gentoo on the Linode but I'm using gcc 3.3.6. I'm using glibc 2.3.5-r2 + same kernel, btw
16:39<@caker>robertj: what are you planning on installing?
16:39<robertj>caker: can you tell me a bit about disaster recovery as far as what happens when the hard disk goes clicky?
16:39<robertj>caker: ubuntu and then dist-upgrading
16:39<@caker>robertj: RAID1 ?
16:39<tronix>phraktyl: can't quite explain why you'd get a NPTL/TLS error...w eird. hmm.
16:40<robertj>caker: I meant on the linode
16:40<robertj>caker: but err yeah
16:40<@caker>robertj: ahh, .. Lish and/or Finnix .. links coming
16:40<tronix>robertj: can fsck via lish console, or if really severe, reinstall/restore from your backups
16:41<robertj>tronix: not mine, I meant the real physical disk
16:41<@caker>.. ok .. back to RAID1 then :)
16:41<robertj>err whatever raid no raid at all is ;)
16:42[~]caker remains confused
16:42<robertj>caker: ok start over ;)
16:42<tronix>robertj: Linode uses raid-1 which is mirrored drive setup. so if one drive fails, other drive still runs and has data
16:42<robertj>ok, suppose it's a motherboard prob then
16:42<@caker>we move the disks to an empty box
16:42<Battousai>swap in a new mobo?
16:42<robertj>or it catches on fire, or whatnot, are there any offsite backups or do I need to look after it myself?
16:42<tronix>robertj: you're responsible for doing your own backups
16:42<Battousai>backups are your responsibility
16:42<@caker>robertj: what they said
16:42<Battousai>linode is an unmanaged service :)
16:43<anderiv>robertj: rsnapshot is your friend.
16:43<tronix>robertj: with that said, they do run a tight ship with stuff. I still do daily backups via rsync/ssh/etc, mostly useful if i rm'd the wrong file
16:43[~]caker dd's random blocks on tronix's filesystems
16:43<@caker>la de daa
16:44[~]tronix needed a new entropy source, after all ;)
16:44<anderiv>robertj: I use rsnapshot to keep 31 daily backups, 4 hourly, and 3 monthly.
16:44<robertj>tronix: yeah, I use ribs at work but I'm still looking for a better solution
16:44<anderiv>robertj: works great...
16:45<robertj>but looking at the conf file right now locally
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17:09<robertj>hrmm rebooting just powered my linode off
17:10<encode>robertj: did you reboot using lish / webpage? or did you use the normal linux shutdown command?
17:11<robertj>encode: there is actually a reboot command now ;)
17:12<encode>my question still stands
17:13<@mikegrb>yeah that just does a shutdown
17:13<@mikegrb>as the host needs to do some housekeeping stuff between boots
17:13<encode>use lish or the webpage
17:13<@mikegrb>you can "alias rebbot='ssh reboot'" though
17:14<robertj>just curious
17:14<robertj>btw, rsnapshot is chugging away steadily without problems
17:15<robertj>is growing a file system a big deal later on?
17:18<@mikegrb>the disk images tab will let you increase the size of your images, assuming you have unallocated space
17:18<@mikegrb>(think partitions)
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17:20<robertj>and err...what are the kernel requirements for the guest
17:21<tronix>2.4 or 2.6
17:22<robertj>but if I use a packaged kernel are bad things going to happen?
17:22<tronix>you can only use the kernels linode provides
17:22<tronix>as this is a security measure
17:22<JasonF>but installing your distro's kernel package won'
17:23<JasonF>won't break anything
17:23<tronix>that's true
17:23<robertj>is the real kernel outside the box?
17:23<tronix>(outside of the guest UML instance, yes)
17:23<robertj>ok, and that gets upgraded without me having to worry then?
17:24<tronix>you reboot whenever you want to track an updated kernel after caker/mikegrb announces
17:24<tronix>them in the forums (web site)
17:24<tronix>it's pretty much that simple. I don't reboot often, though. :)
17:24<robertj>tronix: as long as there isn't something really nasty and non-local I don't fret on any machine really
17:25<tronix>nah the kernels has a sane setup and works well for all the distros people runs on their Linodes
17:25<@mikegrb>interestingly most of the recent kernel expoits haven't affected uml
17:25<tronix>they also have a lot of various useful stuff compiled in
17:25<@mikegrb>(uml guests that is)
17:26<robertj>is there a reason warty is still listed?
17:26|-|linbot [] has joined #linode
17:26<robertj>4.10 will not get security updates as of 5/1/06
17:26<tronix>guessing they haven't gotten around to doing hedgehog? lots of things higher on the priority list
17:27<robertj>a bit befor that actaully
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17:27<tronix>though I installed 4.10 and then immediately dist-upgraded to 5.10
17:27<tronix>other day, no issues. was that straightforward.
17:27<robertj>tronix: hoary is already a version old too ;)
17:27<robertj>tronix: I had to futz a bit
17:27|-|encode [] has joined #linode
17:27<tronix>really? what'd you need to adjust? (curious)
17:27<robertj>had to dist-upgrade then add security and dist-upgrade again I think
17:27<encode>argh! seg fault
17:27<encode>irssi has never seg faulted for me before
17:27<tronix>ahh hmm... i probably added security before dist-upgrading
17:28<robertj>tronix: could I do a clean install somehow though, there are differences
17:28<robertj>for instance /etc/sudoers is different in a clean upgrade than it is in a clean install
17:28<tronix>robertj: with a little work. Linode has a web page on how to make your own distro (which is what a clean install essentially is)
17:28<robertj>in hoary + you can sudo from any admin account
17:29<tronix>don't remember url to that distro creation page offhand but someone here most likely knows
17:30<tronix>and if not, I can go poke round for it
17:30<robertj>tronix: it's not on the FAQ either
17:31<tronix>ah found it
17:32<robertj>hrmm, not very friendly ;)
17:32<tronix>it's not an officially supported thing, so you're on your own there
17:32<tronix>but it works.
17:33<tronix>create a temporary disk image sized for your clean install,
17:33<tronix>assign it to your profile
17:33<tronix>reboot linode
17:33<tronix>put a fs on new disk image, mount it somewhere,
17:33<tronix>install your distro via chroot or untar (or whatever) into it
17:34<tronix>modify any files necessary -- particularly the ones mentioned in that url
17:34<tronix>unmount, shutdown linode.
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17:34<tronix>update profile to point to the new disk image as the primary boot device
17:34<tronix>see how well it works out. if it's desired, then
17:34<tronix>nuke the old boot disk image and reclaim the space
17:34<tronix>that's basically the steps in a nutshell
17:35<tronix>two big tips:
17:35<tronix>1. disable any default updatedb/locate cron jobs
17:36<tronix>2. disable NPTL (by mv'ing away or rmdir'ing /lib/tls)
17:36<robertj>hrmm, interesting
17:36<robertj>what about just booting an iso from grub?
17:37<tronix>there's no grub boot loader for UML/Linode -- the only place you can make boot option changes is via the web page
17:37<tronix>you can get ISO images going... but
17:37<tronix>it's going to be roughly the same steps as making the custom distrib
17:37<tronix>and may require temporary disk space to hold the iso image in addition to the new disk image
17:38<robertj>tronix: hrmm, that would be fine
17:39<tronix>but doable with a little time and work.
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17:39<robertj>so if I create a virtual disk, will it show up as a device in the guest that I can dd too and boot?
17:40<tronix>believe so, though I usually do file-based untar/copies/installs for distros
17:40<tronix>i've never tried dd'ing an iso image directly onto a disk image
17:40<tronix>might work, worth a try
17:40<tronix>test with a small minimal iso image :)
17:41<tronix>hmm... dd might not work
17:41<tronix>since that tend to encode partition(s)
17:45<robertj>yummy 1.52 megs/sec
17:48<linbot>rafx: The latest stable kernel is; the latest snapshot of the stable kernel is 2.6.16-rc2-git6; the latest beta kernel is 2.6.16-rc2-mm1.
17:56<robertj>tronix: my bet is on this not to work :(
17:58<tronix>direct dd? yeah. but if you can somehow convince the installer to run in a chroot on your new disk image, may work
17:59<tronix>or run whatever scripts to untar/install packages
18:02<robertj>ok how about mounting the iso lookpback and copying everything over and rebooting?
18:10<@caker>IMO, you're way better off installing this somewhere locally, and lobbing that off up onto your Linode
18:17<robertj>caker: upload is soooooo slooooow here :(
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18:23<robertj>caker: think this is going to work?
18:23<hideki>hi there
18:23<robertj>I've got it mounted and am doing a cp -r onto /dev/ubdc now which is an ext3 fs
18:23<hideki>mikegrb, don't you know someone in gb who can set up a proxy or dl the file? :)
18:24<@mikegrb>hideki: !
18:32<@caker>robertj: if "this" means getting installer cds to work under UML, then no.
18:33<@caker>robertj: what distro are you after, again?
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18:44<warewolf>windows keeps resetting my clock off from UTC to EST
18:44<warewolf> 8 Feb 19:43:48 ntpdate[4855]: step time server offset 18000.586208 sec
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19:10<robertj>caker: sorry I stepped out, after ubuntu breezy
19:11<@mikegrb>Disposing of a Business
19:11<@mikegrb>You can dispose of a business by: - Sale - Exchange - Retirement - Abandonment - Destruction - Deathk
19:11[~]mikegrb destroys
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19:17<@mikegrb>Do not include:
19:17<@mikegrb>- Charitable contributions - Illegal kickbacks - Political contributions
19:17<@mikegrb>^ Illegal kickbacks are not deductable
19:22<robertj>mike: what about protection money?
19:22<@mikegrb>not that far
19:23<npmr>Our records show that your account is past due.
19:23<npmr>The Debian Mafia
19:23<npmr>P.S. Sleep with one eye open.
19:26<robertj>npmr: I don't think the Debian Mafia would sign their threats with anything that could even be remotely construed as belonging to Metallica
19:26<npmr>robertj, you're next
19:27<robertj>woah woah there, Ubuntu is not Debian
19:27<robertj>maybe you are looking for nubutu?
19:27<npmr>nope, it *owes* debian
19:28<tronix>Ubuntu founder = very lucky billionaire, with a nice Russian Soyuz ride up to the space station and back. ;) that's about all I know.
19:28<robertj>tronix: he is a pretty nice guy, sabdfl hangs about on IRC occasionally
19:28<tronix>ahh nice.
19:29<robertj>plus he owns up to his messups, which means alot to me
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19:55<robertj>hrmm apache is segfaulting on breezy...
19:56<@mikegrb>robertj: which kernel?
19:56<robertj>latest 2.6 which doesn't seem to be the latest listed on the menu...
19:56<@mikegrb>"mv /lib/tls /lib/tls-disabled"
19:57<robertj>all happy
20:06<linbot>rafx: The latest stable kernel is; the latest snapshot of the stable kernel is 2.6.16-rc2-git6; the latest beta kernel is 2.6.16-rc2-mm1.
20:24|-|Internat [] has joined #linode
20:24<Internat>i knew i was forgetting to join a channel
20:29<Internat>hi :P
20:36<tronix>in that case, welcome back.
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21:01<robertj>hrmm, more segfaulting again :(
21:12<tronix>robertj: think linbot's comment about kernels wasn't for the uml kernels, but for the regular Linux kernels
21:12<gpd>robertj: did you follow mikegrb's advice, then reboot?
21:12<tronix>segfaulting? hmm. particular app or all? any mention of /lib/tls use?
21:12<tronix>(in strace output)
21:12<robertj>oh, didn't reboot
21:12<robertj>let me do that
21:13<tronix>ahh i just saw mikegrb said that. sorry. :)
21:13<robertj>maybe I did, I don't remember
21:13<robertj>rebooting just for fun
21:13<gpd>uptime... ?
21:14<robertj>hehe, I don't even start paying attention to uptime until it nears the year mark
21:15<gpd>no - I meant that might tell you if you rebooted recenly...
21:16<tronix>strange and unrelated question... 2.5" laptop hard drives -- do they have a thin magnetic film like in floppies
21:16<tronix>or do they have hard glass-ish platters like in desktop drives?
21:16<tronix>guessing latter but not sure
21:17<robertj>still segfaulting :(
21:17<npmr>hard ceramic
21:17<tronix>in that case, might need to sic strace -f -o /tmp/segfault.log <path to apache and startup options>
21:17<tronix>ahh nice
21:18<npmr>likewise with 1.8 and 1 inch drives
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21:18<npmr>hence the name.... *hard* drive
21:18<gpd>robertj: just apache segfaulting? what in the logs?
21:18<robertj>gpd: nothing
21:19<gpd>you went warty-breezy?
21:19<robertj>gpd: yeah
21:20<gpd>I have a chroot dapper on my linode... will check apache2
21:21<robertj>gpd: I installed php5 and mysql4.1-server and then unzipped ezpublish and visited the index.php and it segfaults
21:21<robertj>i know it's not properly configured but ezpublish has a script that walks you through satisfying deps and such
21:22<gpd>but it worked before all that ? or not?
21:22<@mikegrb>does ezpublish require php5?
21:22<@mikegrb>might be worth a shot tryin php4
21:23<@mikegrb>also, if you are using apache2, which mpm worker are you using?
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21:23<robertj>I think 5 required prefork
21:24<@mikegrb>yes, but is that what apache is actually using?
21:24<gpd>breezy doesn't have php5 must have installed it seperately
21:25<robertj>I think the deps are set up that way by default
21:25<robertj>gpd: it must be in universe
21:25<robertj>a simple phpinfo scritp works fine
21:26<gpd>hmm... yes it is further down... curious
21:27<@mikegrb>robertj: what does "apache2 -V | grep MPM" output?
21:30|-|cow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:31<robertj>and it's very odd because the place where it occurs is pretty boring looking, it adds a string to an array...
21:33<robertj>anyway, I'll look at this again tomorrow, I need some zzzz
21:33<robertj>thanks for all the help
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21:47[~]taupehat updates his dotcom with a new and sleek gif
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21:53<encode>--- ping statistics ---
21:53<encode>14 packets transmitted, 14 received, 0% packet loss, time 14403ms
21:53<encode>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 84.023/84.321/84.706/0.361 ms
21:54<encode>sorry ppl
21:54<taupehat>or should I say
21:54[~]encode destroys his right mouse button
22:17[~]tronix throws taupehat some rooby racks ;)
22:17<taupehat>now I'm going to cheat
22:17<taupehat>"Snooch to the nooch!"
22:24<linbot>the wind ... cries ... Mary.
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23:08|-|JasonF changed nick to Jay-odf
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 09 00:00:12 2006