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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-04-09

---Logopened Sun Apr 09 00:00:35 2006
00:26|-|interferon [] has joined #linode
00:26<interferon>any current outages? i can't get into my linode on host51
00:26<@caker>interferon: it's coming up now
00:26<Eman>it shat itself AGAIN
00:26<interferon>caker, ok thanks
00:27<interferon>what was the problem with it?
00:28|-|JasonF [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:34<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host51 in System and Network Status <>
00:36|-|OvrLrd-Q [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:54|-|Nemesis__ [] has quit [Quit: ]
00:56<interferon>i still can't get my linode up
00:57|-|spr [] has quit [Quit: Spoon!]
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01:08<interferon>ok, it's back
01:12<warewolf>I really, really need to oil my pocketknife.
01:13<warewolf>it's too difficult to prey open the blades.
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01:19|-|bosco [] has joined #linode
01:19<bosco>yo what is up i have some questions about the servers at linode
01:19<bosco>cant find what i need on tht site
01:19<bosco>and i want to talk to users
01:19<interferon>we are here
01:20<bosco>well basicly i have my own website that i run and i have another that i run for a big group
01:20<bosco>we are rebuilding
01:20<bosco>our site
01:20<bosco>and looking to save money
01:20<bosco>we are also adding flash videos pictures
01:20<bosco>and other graphical things
01:20<bosco>i konw this sounds dumb
01:20<bosco>but is the basic plan for me
01:21<bosco>basic server
01:21<bosco>is it enough power to do what i want to do
01:21<bosco>ubuntu is what i plan on running it on
01:21<bosco>cuz i run it every day
01:22<warewolf>you'll probally be fine
01:22<bosco>warewolf, there is about 40 members that view
01:22<interferon>you don't need much power to serve files
01:22<warewolf>again, you'll probally be fine
01:22<bosco>warewolf, we are a ministry
01:22<bosco>os other view it too
01:22<warewolf>you will need to tune your linode linux server so that it doesn't try to use too much memory
01:23<bosco>warewolf, right i got that much
01:23<warewolf>eg, if you run mysql you _really_ need to look at the wiki for tuning tips
01:23<bosco>i do run mysql
01:23<bosco>on my labtop
01:23<bosco>so i know what you mean
01:23<warewolf>your laptop problaly has a half a gig of memory or more
01:23<warewolf>your linode won't.
01:23<interferon>bosco, but will you need mysql for this application?
01:24<interferon>(plus postgresql > mysql !)
01:24<bosco>interferon, that is a mush
01:24<bosco>have to have
01:24<bosco>just courois
01:24<interferon>you didn't mention that in your original specification :)
01:24<bosco>oh i c
01:24<interferon>it should still be fine
01:24<bosco>well i run ubuntu
01:24<bosco>and my site isnt that big
01:25<interferon>i do too
01:25<bosco>but the site for the group mite be
01:25<bosco>even with all the pics grahpics and movies
01:25<bosco>and 2 forums
01:25<bosco>that should be fine
01:25<interferon>bosco, you can add on additional hard drive space if you need to
01:25<warewolf>so you pay a few $$ more for extra disk space, if you've got .avi files etc
01:25<bosco>but wouldnt it make more sinse
01:25<interferon>how much disk space do you expect to use?
01:25<bosco>to just go to the next one uup
01:26<bosco>i dont konw
01:26<bosco>the site is going to be comepletily
01:26<bosco>so i dont knwo how much we will use
01:26<bosco>but if a video is not on the site
01:26<interferon>i think the basic plan gives you 3 gigs
01:26<bosco>it wont be on the server
01:26<bosco>at all
01:26<warewolf>3 gigs _total_
01:26<warewolf>that's your content, *plus* your linux os install
01:26<interferon>warewolf, yeah but ubuntu is like 250 meg
01:27<bosco>is it just minimal install
01:27<bosco>or the full install
01:27<bosco>of ubuntu
01:27<interferon>bosco, it's the server edition
01:27<warewolf>I believe there are multiple images
01:27<warewolf>so you can pick and choose
01:27<interferon>bosco, only 250 meg. no gnome, no X, pretty minimal yeah.
01:27<bosco>interferon, that is what i though
01:28<bosco>i just need it there for root access
01:28<bosco>and terminal use
01:28<bosco>if i have too
01:28<bosco>cuz i am familair with it
01:28<bosco>since i run it on my labtop everyday
01:28<interferon>i'm very happy with ubuntu
01:29<bosco>interferon, yah they pushed dapper back 6 weeks for more testing wasnt to happy aobut that
01:29<bosco>so when dapper comes out can i update it on my server how does that work
01:29<interferon>oh, i hadn't heard that
01:29<bosco>it was allready sopposed to be out
01:29<interferon>bosco, pretty much just "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" i believe
01:29<interferon>bosco, is it later than april 20?
01:29<bosco>same as any disto
01:29<interferon>that's the date i heard
01:30<bosco>well i dont remember when they said oringanly every 6 months
01:30<bosco>but all i can rember is pushed back 6 weeks
01:30<bosco>other wise years of support
01:30<bosco>compared to 6 weeks
01:30<bosco>of fixing
01:30<interferon>i'm just glad i wised up and ditched gentoo
01:30<bosco>interferon, gentoo is not so great
01:30<interferon>it's horrendous
01:31<bosco>interferon, my roomate is big on it
01:31<bosco>and i hate it
01:31<interferon>i was too
01:31<bosco>too much work
01:31<bosco>with ti
01:31<bosco>ubuntu works out of the box for me on my labtop and that is great
01:31<bosco>i run automatixx
01:31<bosco>to get dvd and other things working
01:32<bosco>hot keys
01:32<bosco>the whole nine yards
01:32<bosco>the only thing that i had to install was my wireless stuff
01:32<bosco>other than that everything works perfectly
01:34<bosco>so i have full root acess
01:34<bosco>as if it was my own server
01:34<bosco>at my house
01:34<bosco>other than it not being there
01:34<interferon>but obviously you shouldn't be running as root all the time
01:34<bosco>of course
01:35<bosco>well yah
01:35<bosco>just wanted to make sure i got it
01:35<bosco>what are some good things
01:35<bosco>aobut it
01:35<bosco>i am just doing my homework
01:35<bosco>cuz it sounds to good to be true
01:35<bosco>for that price it is perfect
01:37<interferon>the good thing is that you have control over your server
01:37<bosco>well that is one thing that i have to have
01:37<bosco>is my own server
01:37<interferon>for instance, there are no other hosting companies that would support my Lisp applications, but with linode that's no problem.
01:38<warewolf>you're oldschool :)
01:38<bosco>so they sopport java flash
01:38<warewolf>how about a game of abuse? :)
01:38<bosco>the whole nine yards
01:38<interferon>bosco, anything you can apt-get (well, and more too)
01:38<interferon>warewolf, a game of abuse?
01:38<bosco>interferon, nice
01:38<Eman>bosco: you can do nearly anything on your linode - as long as its legal
01:39<warewolf>bosco: support, as in allow you to do it on your own server, yes. Come running when you cry for help when you can't get something working maybe not.
01:39<bosco>warewolf, i c
01:39<warewolf>although caker and mikegrb have been way _way_ above the call of duty in support.
01:39<bosco>i am anti windows
01:39<bosco>i hate to sa
01:39<bosco>but do they have windows servers then
01:39<warewolf>interferon: you never heard of the crack dot com game abuse? it was mainly written in lisp.
01:40<interferon>warewolf, i can't say i have. is it still around?
01:40<warewolf>interferon: it was a side-scroller ala the original NES mario games.
01:40<interferon>bosco, they don't
01:40<warewolf>interferon: yes, look on freshmeat for abuse. the full version is now freeware.
01:41<bosco>interferon, just curoisn cuz when you said they dont come crying to your feet when you have a prob just cuoius
01:41<interferon>when i said what? :)
01:41<warewolf>that was me
01:41<bosco>warewolf bosco: support, as in allow you to do it on your own server, yes. Come running when you cry for help when you can't get something working maybe not.
01:41<bosco>my bad
01:41<bosco>it is late here and i am out of it
01:41<bosco>bare with me
01:41<warewolf>if it's a problem due to something the way linode works, they'll go nuts trying to get it working
01:42<bosco>oh ok
01:42<warewolf>but it you can't get some flash app working because your webserver is misconfigured, that's outside of their domain if what they support
01:42<interferon>bosco, their job is to keep the servers running, not to help configure your applications and so on
01:42<bosco>but if it something i have done lol
01:42<warewolf>that's your job :)
01:42<bosco>i konw whta
01:42<interferon>there are forums too
01:42<bosco>i am aware of that
01:42<warewolf>and a very large community base
01:42<bosco>and i plan to keep ubuntu going on there
01:42<interferon>warewolf, this game looks pretty sweet
01:42<warewolf>lots and lots of people love linode.
01:42<bosco>it is cheep to
01:42<warewolf>interferon: yeah, it is actually :)
01:43<bosco>so can i upgrade at any point if i need to
01:43<interferon>my particular host has been panicking too much for comfort lately, but i'm hoping that gets resolved soon
01:43<interferon>bosco, yep. i just did last week
01:43<bosco>so then how did you go about doing that
01:44<bosco>do they have a phone support
01:44<Eman>pray you dont get host51 :p
01:44<bosco>i do alot of praying everyday
01:44<bosco>so i will try
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01:44<interferon>bosco, just a support ticket
01:44<interferon>and yes, host41 has troubles :(
01:45<bosco>dont know what that is
01:45<interferon>bosco, a support ticket? you just fill out a form in their support system.
01:45<bosco>ah ic
01:45<interferon>bosco, also every time you say "lol" mikegrb's program will echo you
01:45<bosco>there is no phone supprot
01:46<interferon>dunno, there may be. i've always used the online system.
01:46<bosco>well lets say there is a prob on there part
01:46<bosco>how long before they contact you back
01:46<bosco>are they good about that
01:46<interferon>in my experience, yes
01:47<Eman>just come in here and slap caker or mikegrb around :p
01:47<bosco>i will trust me
01:47<interferon>(don't say lol! :)
01:47<bosco>why now
01:47<interferon>it triggers mikegrb's program
01:47<bosco>ahi c
01:47<Eman>same with rofl
01:47<bosco>just jkn
01:48<bosco>so anything else i should no before buying
01:48<interferon>off-topic, but what does it mean when i try to connect to a machine through an ssh tunnel and get "channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused" on the target machine?
01:48<bosco>that is the server that i have now
01:48<bosco>i dont know
01:49<bosco>i have never had that prob
01:49<interferon>very strange
01:49<bosco>it is
01:49<bosco>is the server still up
01:49<interferon>yeah, the message comes up on the server
01:49<bosco>websites still up and running
01:49<bosco>wow then really wierd
01:49<bosco>so how easy is it to get flash on the server
01:49<bosco>is that difficult
01:49<interferon>i don't think flash has a serverside component
01:50<Eman>flash is a client side evil pos
01:50<interferon>what Eman said
01:50<bosco>so i can host a webstite with flash on i t
01:50<bosco>that is all i need to know
01:50<Eman>you can
01:50<interferon>just build the .swf file and put it in a web-accessible directory
01:51<bosco>.sfw file
01:51<bosco>nothing like that on my ububnt
01:51<bosco>thta i know of
01:51<interferon>.swf - it's what Macromedia Flash outputs
01:51<warewolf>no no
01:52<warewolf>gotta spell it right :)
01:52<bosco>wow look what i started
01:52<bosco>well one last thing
01:52<interferon>bosco, you will need a copy of Macromedia Flash MX to make flash videos and "applications"
01:52<bosco>i got that
01:53<bosco>if you had to rate them on a scale between 1 and 10 what 10 being perfect
01:53<bosco>what would you give them
01:53<warewolf>grading linode?
01:53<warewolf>in that scale a 20.
01:53<warewolf>and everyone in here will agree with me.
01:53<bosco>i think i am sold
01:53<interferon>i would agree if host41 were more cooperative :)
01:54<bosco>i am gong to go buy the server tommorow
01:54<Eman>isnt it host51, interferon?
01:54<bosco>i have to meet with my client
01:54<warewolf>welcome to the linode generation, or something.
01:54<bosco>warewolf, lol
01:54<interferon>Eman, err yes
01:55<bosco>mikegrb, do you know if there is phone support
01:55<bosco>or not
01:55<warewolf>no, no phone support
01:55<bosco>what kind of sopport is there
01:55<interferon>support ticket system
01:55<bosco>email i know
01:55<interferon>forum, irc
01:55<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:55<warewolf>and any time mikegrb says 'lolz' or 'roflz' or 'mmm.. cake' it's a triggered response.
01:56<warewolf>like that.
01:56<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:56<bosco>mmm cake
01:56<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:56<warewolf>bosco- they get a page if you open a support ticket.
01:56<interferon>lol, rofl at the cake thing!!!!111
01:56<warewolf>bosco- and they're pretty responsive
01:56<bosco>like within 24 hours
01:56<bosco>type of thing
01:56<warewolf>usually less than that.
01:56<warewolf>usually 4h or less
01:56<bosco>so what is ther matiance schedule like
01:57<bosco>when do they go down
01:57<bosco>or do they
01:57<warewolf>and one or the other is usually up until the crack of dawn (they're crazy)
01:57<bosco>wow so am i
01:57<interferon>they don't go down on a regular basis
01:57<bosco>all the time
01:57<interferon>only when something breaks
01:57<bosco>once a month
01:57<bosco>is cool
01:57<bosco>with me
01:57<bosco>just cuoirs
01:57<bosco>you understand
01:57<interferon>see above ^
01:57<@mikegrb>mmm cake
01:57<bosco>mmm cake
01:58<interferon>friggin ssh tunnels
01:58<interferon>curse the internet for not being secure by default
01:58<bosco>so is there a way to see this ticket before i order
01:58<interferon>the support ticket?
01:58<bosco>just to see how i can get help
01:58<bosco>interferon, the ticket
01:59<bosco>i am just doing my homework
01:59<bosco>on there servers
01:59<bosco>i am impressed so far
02:00<bosco>so are they pretty good about getting your descriptions
02:00<bosco>what iff you dont knwo what is wrong
02:00<bosco>and you just need them to figure it out
02:00<bosco>or you think you know
02:00<Eman>just say what you did, what not works etc
02:00<bosco>i do it all them time on gaim
02:01<interferon>there's still time to change your ways
02:01<bosco>interferon, well i think i will be back but not as a buyer but as a customer thank you for yout help and support all of you
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03:19<bosco>srry rwrong
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08:51<afv-13>what is the most stable 2.6 kernel option we have on linode??
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09:07<chris>chris@nullcode:~$ uname -r
09:07<chris>chris@nullcode:~$ uptime
09:07<chris> 10:06:56 up 187 days, 11:45, 1 user, load average: 0.18, 0.12, 0.09
09:07<chris>afv-13: ^
09:15<afv-13>cool, thanks
09:16<@mikegrb>the newer ones will be just as stable
09:16<@mikegrb>just haven't been around long enough to have the same uptime
09:16<@mikegrb>michael@orion:~$ uname -r
09:17<@mikegrb>michael@orion:~$ uptime 09:11:06 up 254 days, 11:19, 9 users, load average: 1.06, 1.00, 0.90
09:20|-|bosco [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:30<chris>If we were cool we would do uptime && uname -r to save a line
09:36<afv-13>mine has so many damn crashes
09:36<afv-13>kernel bugs according to logview
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11:03<abock>starting this morning my linode dies maybe 10 seconds after boot
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11:46<linbot>New news from forums: Bridging between wired and wireless interfaces in Linux Networking <>
11:49<cmantito>linbot needs an RML module :P
11:49<JasonF>caker: ping
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12:44<efudd> <-- impressive
12:45<taupehat>is anything draggable?
12:45<efudd>doesn't seem to be.
12:45<taupehat>am using ff on linux and all I can get it to do is go round and round or stop
12:46<taupehat>and use 99% CPU on a gaming rig
12:46<efudd>yup. seems to be the current functionality. well. I tried IE on 'd0ze beause I didn't want my firefox instance crashing :)
12:46<taupehat>it doesn't crash
12:46<taupehat>but is a bit of a resource pig
12:46<taupehat>cool demo tho
12:46<efudd>i mean, it might. FF tends to go wonky as it's memory footprint increases
12:46<taupehat>(even if it is just a BIT phallic)
12:46<efudd>especially with something like that.
12:47<efudd>to rephrase, my ff instance crashes about once a week.
12:47<efudd>IE Tab - IE Tab - an extension from Taiwan, features: Embedding Internet Explorer in tabs of Mozilla/Firefox. Note, this will also allow you to run Windows Update also.
12:47<taupehat>mine has been crashing at the AP website lately
12:47<efudd>someone wrote a ff pplugin to embed IE :/
12:47<taupehat>I should install cxoffice and see if I can get it working under linux
12:48<efudd>MOST of the time my tabs/browsing state recovers after a crash....
12:48<taupehat>do you have that extension?
12:48<efudd>I'm unfortunately stuck with windows on all of my current machines unless I want to bench hardware.
12:48<efudd>oh.. er
12:48<efudd>ah, on this one, yes.
12:48<efudd>otherwise I use tbe, which has that functionality
12:48[~]taupehat wrote the idiocylevel extensions, which are useless
12:49<efudd>the only code i write is nda'd
12:50<taupehat>foxpose extension is killer
12:50<efudd>it's mentioning all of thse
12:51<taupehat>not mine, though
12:52<efudd>well if it does nothing.... :)
12:52<taupehat>I discovered the foxpose one from that page
12:52<taupehat>it does something
12:52<taupehat>it makes fun of DHS color-coding alert levels
12:52<taupehat>which is _something_ even if it doesn't improve productivity or anything useful like that
12:52<efudd>I wrote a skript kiddy tool once... thingamajig.c
12:53<efudd>had useful features such as --hack-it --really-fast
12:53[~]taupehat has a list of extensions he always installs, and most of the ones on efudd's link are on that list. foxpose is now added to that list
12:53<efudd>It's list of "something" was printing "hacking, please wait.."
12:54<efudd>ah to be /<-L33t again.
12:54[~]efudd nods
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12:54<efudd>speaking of adblock, i guess i need to update it. It has been less than functional lately for me.
12:55<efudd>so what do you use for RSS?
12:55<efudd>I've been using for the last couple of years since I can effectively "share" that between all of my browsers
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13:15<halborland>is there an issue with host15
13:19<cmantito>--- ping statistics ---
13:19<cmantito>9 packets transmitted, 6 received, 33% packet loss, time 7999ms
13:19<cmantito>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 544.633/1893.297/3545.699/981.287 ms, pipe 4
13:19<cmantito>might be.
13:24[~]taupehat just moved off host15 to do the xenbeta
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13:26<afv-13>wonder how xen is going to effect the prices
13:27<efudd>not switching my eyePees for Xen ><
13:27<afv-13>i'd be there if i got to keep my ip
13:28<cmantito>well, judging by the forums, things aren't going as smoothly as hoped.
13:28<taupehat>I chose HEnet for very specific reasons, and it was just happy coincidence that the xenodes all went in there.
13:29<taupehat>it's a bit rough, to be sure
13:29<taupehat>not terribly so
13:29<cmantito>I'm curious to try it out. But stability is important.
13:29<cmantito>I'm *almost* tempted to try it with another linode.
13:30<taupehat>if I had income from my linode, I'd not be doing the beta with it, but all is is my blog and email
13:30<taupehat>and I have alternate emails
13:31<efudd>i have to completely replace the memory in this laptop to upgrade to 2GB
13:31<cmantito>I don't make much income from my linode, but I do a little bit of private hosting, web/email/irc hosting, the like.
13:31<cmantito>that and it's my primary mail server.
13:32<taupehat>it's my primary mail server, and I've got a couple of people using it for their mailserver, and my dad has his website on it
13:32<taupehat>but they're all understanding
13:32<cmantito>the people I host wouldn't be :P
13:32<taupehat>especially when I say their suffering contributes to xen =]
13:33<taupehat>cmantito: my response would be "You don't like it? Pay me money to make it stable."
13:33<cmantito>they do. £5/month
13:33<taupehat>oh, heh
13:34<cmantito>(~$9.00, so I can't complain)
13:34<taupehat>then your response to them can be "Oh FFS. It's five bloody quid per. Lighten up!"
13:34<taupehat>that always works
13:34<cmantito>s'a thoguht.
13:34<taupehat>on a different note
13:35<taupehat>what would you think an appropriate LARTing method for someone who has done nothing on a mailinglist for years beyond send "Out of office" replies to each and every sender to that list?
13:35<taupehat>kicking him off the list seems a light punishment
13:35[~]taupehat is thinking public tarring and feathering
13:35<cmantito>send TONS of emails at the same time so he clogs his outgoing SMTP with autoresponses.
13:36<cmantito>tar -cf - | feather --create ?
13:36<taupehat>it's an exchange server
13:36<cmantito>in all seriousness, I'd find a way to use it against him ^^
13:36<cmantito>like repeatedly saying lol
13:36<cmantito>or rofl
13:37<@mikegrb>mmm cake
13:37<cmantito>or cake
13:37<taupehat>You know how exchange sends a "bad address" spam to each sender, regardless of whether the address could possibly be valid?
13:37<cmantito>I think so..
13:37<cmantito>s'been a while since I've played with an exch. server
13:38<taupehat>not saying I'd do this
13:38<taupehat>I could send him messages claiming to come from different users in that same domain
13:39<taupehat>he autospams them
13:39<taupehat>and gets the bounces
13:39<taupehat>and autospams the bounces
13:39<cmantito>hehehehe >:)
13:39<cmantito>I *do* like that ^^
13:39<taupehat>do that with enough different fake addresses on that domain, and the mail admin is sure to notice
13:39<taupehat>(then he'll figure out the IP of the person doing all the mischief and I get hollered at)
13:41<cmantito>tor/proxy? :PP
13:41<cmantito>tor/proxy? :P
13:43<wabio>can someone tell me how to install vncserver on for example ubuntu?
13:44<cmantito>apt-get install vncserver ? (I think?)
13:44<taupehat>apt-get install vncserver
13:44<wabio>I tried that
13:44<taupehat>apt-cache search vnc
13:44<wabio>it said package vncserver is not available when I tried the apt-get thing
13:44[~]cmantito isn't extremely famliar with apt, or ubuntu.
13:45<afv-13>afv-13@soultrap ~ $ apt-cache search vnc|wc -l
13:45<taupehat>wabio: do apt-cache search
13:46<wabio>mm, then what?
13:46<taupehat>you'll get 33 choices if afv-13 is to be believed
13:46<wabio>I got 8
13:46<taupehat>so you apt-get install whichever choice you like best
13:46<afv-13>i'm on testing
13:46<Spads>sudo apt-get install
13:46[~]taupehat uses real debian
13:46<Spads>which we often call 'sagi'
13:46[~]taupehat also uses real su
13:46[~]cmantito uses Slackware. Or Arch when it's finished.
13:46<Spads>I got 34 responses on ubuntu
13:47<cmantito>well, I use arch at home. I'll use it on linode *eventually* :P
13:47<wabio>there is something called vino, vnc server for gnome
13:47<wabio>is that good enough?
13:47<cmantito>do you use GNOME?
13:47<wabio>I dont use anything yet..
13:47<cmantito>look for... x11vnc?
13:47<cmantito>or Xvnc
13:48<afv-13>X on linode?
13:48<wabio>there is only xvncviewer
13:48<afv-13>that's crazy
13:48<taupehat>wabio: just use ssh
13:48<taupehat>and use the shell to interact with your linode
13:48<taupehat>you really don't want to bog it down running a windowing system
13:48<cmantito>if you need control panels or something, look at Webmin.
13:48<cmantito>but avoid it if you don't need it.
13:49<wabio>well, how do you download stuff to it trhough ssh?
13:49<cmantito>scp file user@host:/path/to/destination/file
13:49<wabio>ok thanks
13:49<cmantito>wget http://server/file
13:49<wabio>makes it a bit easier :)
13:49<taupehat>either way
13:49<cmantito>or worst case? apt-get install links
13:49<cmantito>and then you've got a text based web browser
13:50<taupehat>or lynx even
13:50<cmantito>I like links a bit better cause it's got better funny-stuff support.
13:50<cmantito>never tried elinks
13:51<wabio>funny.. text-based browser
13:51<cmantito>they're quite useful
13:53[~]cmantito --shower && make clean &
13:53<wabio>so cool, no annyoing flashing images
13:53<taupehat>I use them at work
13:54<taupehat>I get requests to add or remove sites from the porn filter
13:54<taupehat>and use lynx to check them out
13:55<taupehat>not lol
13:56<afv-13>with framebuffer links -g is cool for porn filter checking
13:56<taupehat>eh, with nothing lynx is good for filter checking
13:56<taupehat>usually I can tell from the text whether I need to bother using a regular browser to check the site
13:57<taupehat>"OMG hot chix0rz NUDE!!!" is usually a goood indication that the site goes on the porn list
13:59<Spads>that's why i set my mailers to show text/plain before text/html
13:59<Spads>because the text/plain portion is usually where the spammers hide all the bayes-dumping
13:59<taupehat>some of that is plain poetic
13:59<taupehat>I got some nice literature snippets the other day and it was interesting enough to send me to the bookstore
14:00<taupehat>went "Hmm, that's actually pretty good" and googled the names of the characters
14:00<afv-13>so spam is good after all
14:00<taupehat>not in the way the spammers intended
14:01<Spads>yeah, it's great dissociated-press exquisite cadaver stuff
14:01<taupehat>not too many people know who exquisite cadaver is
14:02<taupehat>same diff
14:02<Spads>it was a writing technique used by the surrealists
14:02<Spads>the surrealists would say "Yes of course 'who'. She's my nephew!"
14:02<Spads>or at least the dadaists would
14:03<taupehat>some guy who commentatorX for NPR
14:09|-|Spads changed nick to ExquisitePope
14:11[~]ExquisitePope is so much stronger than ExcruciatingPope
14:11<ExquisitePope>**insert your own crucifixion joke here**
14:12<ExquisitePope>okay, time to restart X
14:14<ExquisitePope>much better
14:14<ExquisitePope>or not
14:15|-|shrap [] has joined #linode
14:16<shrap>Anyone else having conectivity problems?
14:17<afv-13>the internet is full
14:17<afv-13>please try again later
14:24<ExquisitePope>The Internet is punching me in the face now
14:24<taupehat>looks OK
14:24<ExquisitePope>I reinserted my wifi card and it seemed to correct
14:25<taupehat>that's not the internet ={
14:25<ExquisitePope>yeah I know.
14:26<taupehat>so which is caker and which is mikegrb here?
14:26<ExquisitePope>I think caker is on the left
14:26<taupehat>the brainy-looking one, eh?
14:27<taupehat>that would make sense
14:30<shrap>I wish atleast one of them would answer my pm
14:30<taupehat>it's sunday
14:31<shrap>I can only assume, since my linode is down, that im not the only one
14:31<taupehat>which host?
14:31<shrap>i dunno
14:31<taupehat>I suggest going to and logging in and filling out a support ticket
14:31<taupehat>it elicits a higher-priority response =]
14:32<shrap>I told my linode to reboot, and its been in que for a good 10min now
14:34<Eman>ooo pretty pictures
14:34<ExquisitePope> <-- taupehat
14:34<afv-13>shrap: it's faster to ssh in, issue a shutdown, then get into the lish and boot
14:35<shrap>i am unable to ssh
14:35<taupehat>ExquisitePope: heh
14:35<shrap>imes out
14:35<ExquisitePope>shrap: even to lish?
14:36<ExquisitePope>ssh in as that
14:36<ExquisitePope>your username
14:36<ExquisitePope>your host#
14:36<shrap>i will attempt
14:37<shrap>its like the root to my box is dead
14:37<ExquisitePope>how about to the host?
14:44<shrap>ah its host 15...
14:44<shrap>cant connect
14:44<taupehat>host15 seems to be down
14:44<taupehat>seriously put in a support ticket on that
14:44<shrap>I did
14:44<shrap>Not really, I was BBQ'n and told my server is down :/
14:45<ExquisitePope>not for you, obviously
14:45<shrap>That means im eatin' mike and cakers burgers
14:58|-|semperidem [] has joined #linode
15:01<semperidem>hello Linode brethren
15:02<semperidem>is there any way to tell SSHD not to use PAM?
15:03<iggy>semperidem: and use what instead?
15:03<semperidem>I guess regular Unix auth?
15:03[~]taupehat detects basic misunderstanding here...
15:03<semperidem>sounds like I asked a pretty dumb question
15:04<iggy>I guess it would help if you explained what you are actually trying to accomplish
15:04<ExquisitePope>first of all, *why* do you want it not to use PAM?
15:04<semperidem>ok, so my problem is that I upgraded PAM via RPMs
15:04<semperidem>and now I cant log in via SSH
15:04<iggy>restart sshd probably
15:04<semperidem>in looking at the SSH logs, I noticed problems loading the PAM modules
15:04<semperidem>yeah, ive restarted it a bunch of times
15:04<semperidem>let me show you a line from the log file
15:04<iggy>is there an upgrade for sshd to go along with the pam update?
15:04<cmantito>you posted on the forums, right?
15:05<semperidem>yeah, sorry, i didnt mean to be a pain in the ass
15:05<cmantito>nope, just wondering.
15:05<semperidem>yeah, that was me :)
15:05<cmantito>I was gonna say, there's a guy on teh forums with the *same* problem.
15:05<semperidem>oh wait
15:05<cmantito>no, it's you :P
15:05<semperidem>im THICK today
15:05<semperidem>so anyway, this is what SSHD complains about
15:05<semperidem>Apr 9 16:01:38 li13-155 sshd[1037]: PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/$ISA/
15:06<semperidem>I think I really screwed it up this time
15:06<cmantito>can you login with LISH?
15:06<semperidem>yes and no
15:06<semperidem>i mean, i can log in to the lish console
15:06<semperidem>but not to the screen of my linode
15:06<cmantito>you can log into lish, but not the actual server?
15:06<semperidem>does that make sense?
15:07<semperidem>I just get
15:07<semperidem>Red Hat Linux release 9 (Shrike)
15:07<semperidem>Kernel 2.4.29-linode39-1um on an i686
15:07<semperidem>li13-155 login:
15:07<cmantito>so it's not an ssh problem per se.
15:07<semperidem>and then it doesnt take anything I enter at that prompt
15:07<cmantito>it's more of an overall authentication issue?
15:07<semperidem>well, heres the thing
15:07<semperidem>I also have webmin installed
15:07<semperidem>and webmin accepts the root password just fine
15:08<semperidem>thank god, because if i didnt have webmin, id be SOL
15:08<cmantito>well, there's always finnix or a small debian partition.
15:08<semperidem>should I make room for a minilinux then?
15:08<taupehat>if webmin works
15:08<cmantito>finnix doesn't need HD space.
15:08<taupehat>webmin has a shell access module
15:09<semperidem>yeah, it has a SSH mod
15:09<taupehat>you can connect to the shell via that (I think) and fix from there
15:09<cmantito>I think it's just an ssh java thing
15:09<taupehat>worth a try...
15:09<cmantito>could be.
15:09<semperidem>are you referring to the actual "SSH Server" module in webmin?
15:09<cmantito>like, "Shell" or "Command line" or something like thatr.
15:09<taupehat>yeah, what you're looking at now
15:10<semperidem>oh, i think i found it
15:10<semperidem>Command history
15:10<semperidem>> ls -al
15:10<semperidem>su: incorrect password
15:11<semperidem>man, this is weird
15:11<cmantito>so webmin is the *only* thing that'll authenticate then?
15:11|-|wabio [~a@] has left #linode []
15:11<cmantito>you don't have an authenticating FTP or mail server that you could test with?
15:11<semperidem>but im beginning to think that webmin doesnt neccesarily authenticate directly against Unix
15:11<semperidem>I have an FTP server
15:12<semperidem>which doesnt work either, in fact it was what started this whole shebang
15:12<cmantito>can you login to th...ok then.
15:12<semperidem>ive done this same setup on brand new linodes at least 3 or 4 times before and never had a problem like this
15:12<cmantito>what was the last thing you did before not being able to login?
15:12<semperidem>all i did was install a handful of RPMs, the ones needed by webmin
15:13<semperidem>oh, and heres another thing
15:13<semperidem>I went into authconfig
15:13<semperidem>with the pretty colors and what not, via SSH
15:13<semperidem>but I *thought* i exited without making any changes
15:13<cmantito>you might want to reboot in single user mode, and remove all those rpms.
15:13<cmantito>and verify your authconfig settings
15:13<semperidem>ok, let me try that
15:13<semperidem>is that runlevel 1?
15:13<semperidem>ok, thanks man
15:13<cmantito>and set your init=/bin/bash
15:14<cmantito>(use LPM to do it)
15:14<cmantito>actually 1 is single usermode.
15:15[~]cmantito screwed up ^^
15:15|-|tedism [] has joined #linode
15:15<semperidem>thanks, i really appreciate all the advice
15:15<cmantito>but what you really want is the init=/bin/basgh
15:15<cmantito>but what you really want is the init=/bin/bash
15:15<semperidem>I HATE bothering people for this kind of stuff
15:15<semperidem>ok, is LPM the web interface?
15:15<taupehat>it's a good crash
15:15<tedism>is this linode support?
15:15<cmantito>semperidem: yes
15:15<taupehat>but single-user mode is the way to go
15:15<taupehat>tedism: somewhat, yeah
15:15<taupehat>user-to-user support right now
15:16<cmantito>semperidem: go to the configuration editor
15:16<cmantito>edit your default configuration
15:16<taupehat>tedism: what's up?
15:16<cmantito>in the runlevel area, select init=/bin/bash
15:16<cmantito>save and reboot.
15:16<ExquisitePope>I wouldn't do that, semperidem
15:16<tedism>Well, I have a linode with a few websites on it right now and I don't know how to do the DNS nameserver.
15:16<ExquisitePope>I'd use finnix
15:16<ExquisitePope>set up a finnix image
15:16<taupehat>tedism: you own a domain, right?
15:16<cmantito>I think for this just booting bash would skip the authentication process, no?
15:16<taupehat>or the domains
15:17<ExquisitePope>setting init to bash can make pain for syncing disks
15:17<taupehat>tedism: I use for my dns servers
15:17<taupehat>works well, and is free
15:17<cmantito>ExquisitePope: I think it'd be effective. if he boots finnix he has to fake mount all the silly filesystems and chroot to use rpm.
15:17<semperidem>yeah, this seems like a easy enough thing to try
15:18<taupehat>you can setup the domains, point the domain to the nameservers they give you, then use that to handle dns for all your domains
15:18<cmantito>semperidem: ExquisitePope might have a point though. I'm not sure.
15:18|-|tedism [] has quit [Quit: ]
15:18<cmantito>bye! :P
15:18<taupehat>tedism: you're welcome
15:18|-|tedism [] has joined #linode
15:18<tedism>Thank you tauphat.
15:18<taupehat>wrong button, tedism?
15:19[~]taupehat was just flaming you
15:19<taupehat>anyhow, np
15:19<semperidem>cmantito: im in via Lish now
15:19<cmantito>semperidem: rebooted with the init set?
15:19<cmantito>first things first? I'd check authconfig
15:19<cmantito>make sure everything's normal.
15:20<cmantito>but don't ask me exactly what to check, I've never used authconfig.
15:20<semperidem>hmmm, it doesnt launch it
15:20<semperidem>maybe cause of the runlevel
15:20<cmantito>what does it do?
15:20<semperidem>just sits there for a half a second then it returns with no message
15:20<ExquisitePope>you can't supply boot options to the kernel
15:20<cmantito>ExquisitePope: what do you mean?
15:20<ExquisitePope>is he selecting this init option in LPM?
15:21<semperidem>yeah, i chose init=/bin/bash
15:21<semperidem>another thing that was bizarre before all of this went down was that SU didnt work
15:22<cmantito>what did you upgrade/install with rpm?
15:22<semperidem>basically webmin and proftpd
15:22<ExquisitePope>oh man
15:22[~]ExquisitePope shudders
15:22<semperidem>its saved my ass a few times to have it though ;)
15:22<ExquisitePope>mindterm will save more arses than that
15:23<cmantito>do you know if it installed any dependencies?
15:23<semperidem>I dont think so
15:23|-|ben4 [] has joined #linode
15:23<semperidem>i installed each package separately
15:23<cmantito>in which case, start by removing webmin and proftpd
15:23<ExquisitePope>why not just use the yum or apt-rpm thingummy?
15:24<semperidem>cause im dumb i guess...
15:24<cmantito>did you say you updated pam?
15:24<semperidem>im not completely sure
15:24<semperidem>it was a perl module
15:24<semperidem>required by webmin
15:24<semperidem>thats the only culprit I can think of
15:24<cmantito>sounds like it's used to authenticate against pam, not update pam itself.
15:24<semperidem>right, thats what I thought
15:25<semperidem>but then again it was an RPM of the perl module
15:25<cmantito> --- that's what it looks like anyway.
15:25<semperidem>should I try to remove the Authen::PAM RPM?
15:26<cmantito>I'd remove webmin first.
15:26<semperidem>okey dokey
15:26[~]taupehat is so glad he's gone away from redhat...
15:27<semperidem>taupehat: what do you use?
15:27<taupehat>debian - at least for servers
15:27<taupehat>I use SuSE for desktop and LTSP deployments
15:27<semperidem>I need to start doing it, only reason I havent is because Im afraid Im gonna have to learn a whole bunch of new stuff
15:27<taupehat>but I wouldn't recommend suse for a linode
15:27<taupehat>there's a bit to learn
15:27<erikh>unix is unix
15:27<erikh>learn unix, and the rest is just icing
15:27<semperidem>I suppose its not much though, it can only be so different
15:28<taupehat>but I found the learning curve to be pretty shallow, and debian is pretty solid
15:28<erikh>(or all too often, frustration)
15:28<afv-13>i'm really enjoying my debian linode
15:28<taupehat>erikh: look in rm-r
15:28<semperidem>so maybe if I cant get out of this pickle Ill just reinstall a debian distro
15:30<semperidem>so RPM insists that none of those packages are installed
15:31<ExquisitePope>I'd just reinstall with ubuntu or debian
15:31<semperidem>I think im ready to send RH where I should have a long time ago and just install Debian
15:31<taupehat>there you go
15:31<semperidem>so ubuntu vs debian, any suggestions?
15:31[~]taupehat flushed redhat about 3 years ago
15:31<semperidem>ive no idea what the difference is
15:31<taupehat>semperidem: I think ubuntu is more desktop-oriented
15:31<ExquisitePope>semperidem: ubuntu updates their stable release more regularly: every six months
15:32<taupehat>debian uses older packages, but is rock solid
15:32<ExquisitePope>semperidem: and they've got good sudo integration
15:32<semperidem>ok, i think im gonna go with that
15:32<taupehat>I actually disable sudo
15:32<ExquisitePope>you would
15:32<taupehat>and remote root logins
15:32<semperidem>im gonna go do that, ill come back to tell you guys about my debian experience in a bit
15:32<semperidem>thanks a lot everyone
15:32<taupehat>see you soon semperidem
15:32<ExquisitePope>semperidem: when you su to root, you're basically the bull in your own china shop
15:32<ExquisitePope>semperidem: sudo lets you be more surgical with your superuser power
15:32<taupehat>ExquisitePope: and when you use sudo and you're the only user on teh machine, there's zero difference
15:33<semperidem>see, until right now i thought they were the same thing
15:33<ExquisitePope>taupehat: incorrect.
15:33<semperidem>su != sudo and i didnt even know it
15:33<ExquisitePope>taupehat: that's like saying that taking all the safeties off of a power tool is okay because you're the only one in the shop
15:33<taupehat>with sudo, all a cracker needs to defeat is one password
15:33<taupehat>with su and remote root disabled, the cracker needs to defeat both passwords
15:33<ExquisitePope>I don't allow ssh to use password auth
15:33<taupehat>sudo being more secure on machines with only one user doing admin is an utter myth
15:34<ExquisitePope>so attacker would have to crack both password and OTP
15:34<ExquisitePope>or password and ssh key
15:34<taupehat>or lish
15:34<ExquisitePope>yeah, lish is kind of an achilles heel for all of that
15:34|-|mohney64 [] has joined #linode
15:34<ExquisitePope>I wish lish let me use more secure auth
15:34[~]ExquisitePope sighs
15:34<cmantito>so remove lish's ability to login to the conosle ^.6
15:34<cmantito>so remove lish's ability to login to the conosle ^.^
15:34<encode>taupehat: sudo is actually less secure on machines with one user doing admin, since there's no command logging
15:35<ExquisitePope>encode: uh what? no command logging? is your sudo *broken*?
15:35<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot Host 15 in System and Network Status <>
15:35<ExquisitePope>auth.log has all my sudo entries
15:35<taupehat>host15 is getting fixed
15:35<taupehat>ExquisitePope: sudo su -
15:35<taupehat>that's the last command you'd see
15:35<ExquisitePope>taupehat: yep, and then I'd know I was hacked
15:35<ExquisitePope>and just take it all down
15:35<taupehat>so how is that more secure?
15:36<taupehat>give me a password that's required before getting to root any day
15:36<ExquisitePope>it's more secure against *me* and *my mistakes*
15:36[~]encode prefers su, that way root has a seperate password
15:36<ExquisitePope>the biggest danger to any system is its admin
15:36<ExquisitePope>this channel gives examples of this daily
15:36<taupehat>see, I know that I'm equally likely to screw up my own system whether I'm root or using sudo
15:36<encode>ExquisitePope: unless you're talking about a microsoft system
15:36<ExquisitePope>I do everything as me until I find myself needing privilege
15:36<taupehat>my iBook reflects this in the number of reinstalls I've done on it
15:36<ExquisitePope>then I go back and "sudo !!"
15:36<encode>in which case its the user rahter than the admin thats the problem
15:37<taupehat>I'd rather make it harder for _other_ people to screw up my system for me
15:37<ExquisitePope>it keeps me from stepping on my own files with big muddy hob-nailed rootboots
15:37<ExquisitePope>taupehat: so don't fucking use password auth in ssh
15:37<taupehat>I'm a do-it-yourselfer where it comes to screwing up my system
15:37<ExquisitePope>passwords are so 1980s
15:38<taupehat>ExquisitePope: that'd be great, only I don't want to install my ssh key on the random mix of machines I login to my node fromm
15:38<ExquisitePope>nuclear war with one proper name
15:38<ExquisitePope>taupehat: so use opie, dude
15:38<taupehat>it's better for me to simply rotate strong passwords
15:38<ExquisitePope>no it isn't
15:38<ExquisitePope>opie > passwords
15:38<ExquisitePope>OTP baby
15:39<taupehat>one time passwords?
15:39<ExquisitePope>One-time Passwords In Everything
15:39<ExquisitePope>oh man
15:39<ExquisitePope>where have you *been*?
15:39<taupehat>living my life
15:39<ExquisitePope>yeah well
15:39<taupehat>what's your excuse?
15:39<ExquisitePope>mikegrb has a great simple howto
15:39<ExquisitePope>it's like one line in a pam config
15:39<ExquisitePope>and zing!
15:39<taupehat>When using OPIE, you need to be careful not to allow your password to be communicated over an insecure channel where someone might be able to listen in and capture it.
15:40<ExquisitePope>you need to do everything as local challenge/response calculations
15:40<ExquisitePope>which is easy enough
15:40<ExquisitePope>I have a javascript otp calculator on
15:41<ExquisitePope>I put it on the mindterm page
15:41<ExquisitePope>so that in a pinch you have everything you need for remote access
15:41[~]taupehat shrugs
15:41<taupehat>the improvement that provides over frequently-changed strong passwords is _minimal_
15:41<ExquisitePope>The end.
15:42<ExquisitePope>I want a bicycle like yours
15:42<ExquisitePope>one that pedals backwards
15:42<ExquisitePope>apology accepted.
15:42<taupehat>I'm going to go unpack some more boxes
15:42<encode>meh @ passwords / opie / ssh keys. Just do what i do - disable ssh, and use carrier pigeons
15:42<taupehat>as it's clear I'm arguing with a zealot
15:42[~]ExquisitePope *hugs* encode
15:42<ExquisitePope>taupehat: takes one to know one, mister "sudo is teh lame"
15:42<cmantito>carrier pidgeons are insecure. best to use darts with messages attached.
15:43<ExquisitePope>I gave you information on a far more secure auth mechanism
15:43<ExquisitePope>resistant to brute force shit, even
15:43<ExquisitePope>make a long passphrase
15:43<taupehat>cmantito: I prefer frikkin sharks with frikkin LASERS attached
15:43<ExquisitePope>make it a whole sentence
15:43<encode>cmantito: i might hit the wrong linode if i used darts
15:43<cmantito>taupehat: oooh, I like it.
15:43<cmantito>encode: then your aim sucks.
15:43<encode>i'm not so accurate with my darts
15:43<taupehat>and brute-force prevention is easy enough with fail2ban
15:43<ExquisitePope>taupehat: that'll throttle it, surely.
15:43<cmantito>just disable the account after so many attempts.
15:44<ExquisitePope>I use fail2ban to keep my logs clean
15:44<taupehat>and if I get multiple emails letting me know fail2ban has been triggered by a given ip range, I just drop that range forever
15:44<encode>i use rm -Rf / to keep my logs clean
15:44<cmantito>like I said, you just disable the account after so many attempts. easy and done.
15:45<taupehat>cmantito: there are like 3 accounts on my machine, and brute-force attempts seem to never attempt any of them
15:45<encode>taupehat: same here
15:45<cmantito>taupehat: then you have nothing to worry about ^.^
15:45<taupehat>they go through a list of default luser and passwords
15:45<encode>my user accounts are named weird things for that exact reason
15:45<cmantito>neither do I. that's just what I tell people who DO worry.
15:47<cmantito>the other option is to come up with your own approach to security.
15:47<cmantito>in addition to key and password authentication, have the ssh daemon connect to localhost:3894 and expect a certain response.
15:48<cmantito>that way the client has to forward port 3894 and run a certain daemon.
15:48<taupehat>I like the method of "Personally tracking down the individual who attempted the hack and beating him to within an inch of his life, then posting the anonymized video to YouTube" method
15:48<cmantito>ooh, very nice indeed.
15:48<taupehat>it's called "Make a public example"
15:49<taupehat>it's illegal, and chances are, beating up a russian mafioso is a bad idea
15:49<cmantito>also tre.
15:49<cmantito>there we go ^.^
15:49[~]cmantito needs the Linode Arch image finished so he has an excuse to rebuild his node.
15:54|-|staynalive [] has joined #linode
15:54<semperidem>well, I am a Debianist now
15:55<semperidem>Im liking apt-get a lot better than RPM
15:55<semperidem>will apt-get remove dependencies too?
15:55<taupehat>not by default
15:55<semperidem>I installed Apache1.3 by mistake
15:55<taupehat>use aptitude
15:56<afv-13>deborphan is good for that
15:56<taupehat>aptitude remove apache-1.3
15:57<taupehat>I really need to unpack boxes here
15:57<taupehat>lots of other debian users here =]
15:57<semperidem>have fun man :)
15:57<taupehat>you too
15:57<semperidem>thanks for the nudge
15:59<afv-13>imagine dosage worked for White Ninja
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16:25<cmantito>someone reset apache? o.O
16:26<staynalive>Hmm, looks like my linode is foobarred: "Host Message helper: mount failed: File exists"
16:27<@caker>staynalive: booting the correct config profile?
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16:39<afv-13>how long will it take to move to the xen beta?
16:39<afv-13>and how long will it take to know what new ip is?
16:55<@caker> <-- parts of nashville in chaos
16:56<@caker>Friday was _nuts_ here .. it was scary. Got dark as night in about 5 minutes, then winds and hail started beating on the apt building
16:57<@caker>we got off OK in this area, but others were devistated
16:57<taupehat>glad you're allright
16:57<@mikegrb>because when the tornado came, you kicked it in the throat
16:57<@mikegrb>and all of your neighbors baked you cakes in appreciation
16:57<taupehat>god damn
16:59<taupehat>the streaming server is getting hammered =[
16:59[~]taupehat decides to wget it and watch smoothly
17:02<afv-13>so which data center has the best network?
17:02<taupehat>depends on the params of your question
17:02<taupehat>IE: Define "best"
17:03<afv-13>i assume bother are well reliable, so speed
17:03<taupehat>for speed, I'm quite happy with henet, but I live on the Best Coast, so it's a lot closer to me
17:03<taupehat>err, west*
17:03<@mikegrb>HE isn't very fault tollerant
17:03<taupehat>same diff, though =]
17:04<afv-13>and the Xen is at HE?
17:04<afv-13>k, so then i'll wait for the mountain that is xen to come to me
17:06<afv-13>"heh" should be banned from irc
17:06<afv-13>most irritating 3 letters in existance
17:07<taupehat>I often use "heh" to indicate that much is being left unsaid
17:07<@mikegrb>I often use bullet to mean a good book
17:08<ExquisitePope>I often use "lol" to indicate that I'm drooling.
17:08<@mikegrb>ExquisitePope: that's different, that's what it really does mean
17:08<afv-13>am i fooling myself in making 2 swap images and raiding them?
17:08<ExquisitePope>I seeee
17:09<efudd>afv-13, Yes.
17:09<afv-13>thought so
17:09<ExquisitePope>afv-13: "lol" is way worse than "heh"
17:10<efudd>I use 'heh' generaly to indicate that I'm pointing and laughing or otherwise have some complex set of thoughts that I'd like to berate an indivdiaul with yet do not feel like typing it all out.
17:10<efudd>afv-13; HEH
17:10<taupehat>what efudd said
17:11<afv-13>well if that makes you feel better
17:11<efudd>it's a trade off.
17:12<efudd> /me grumbles about IDA's (lack of) handling with very large images (~100MB+ dumps)
17:17<ExquisitePope>I usually use "heh" to mean "heh".
17:17<ExquisitePope>if I wanted to be dismissive, I've got plenty of ways to do that using actual English.
17:18<efudd>(See, my way is much more.. well, imaginative. For you.)
17:18<cmantito>I genereally use hehe as opposed to lol, or heh for a short quick laugh. heheh for an evil laugh. ^^
17:19<taupehat>I prefer muahaha for the evil laugh
17:19<efudd>I use 'lol' as a taunt.
17:19<taupehat>it's perfectly clear
17:19<efudd>It's a "Ha ha. you are an aolemur."
17:19<ExquisitePope>because you always moo when you're cackling
17:19<efudd>hehaahehahehahhehaehehah is something like muahahaahah
17:19<ExquisitePope>"moo, haw haw haw."
17:19[~]efudd is often accused of having a very evil laugh IRL
17:19<taupehat>and then there's the utterly definitive "lol irl"
17:21<taupehat>houses tossed into the river
17:21<taupehat>which one has dorothy in it?
17:21|-|tedism [] has quit [Quit: tedism]
17:21<taupehat>looks like a helluva storm =[
17:21[~]cmantito has an evil laugh he optionally uses irl. he calls it his "GMing laugh"
17:22[~]taupehat chuckles
17:22<taupehat>toyotas all over the place!
17:26<taupehat>amazing damage =[
17:26<taupehat>caker: glad you're allright
17:26<taupehat>that's horrid
17:31<ExquisitePope> <-- One eye on the action, one eye just takin' it reeeeeal easy...
17:32<taupehat>ExquisitePope: nsfw?
17:32<cmantito>looks safe to me.
17:32<taupehat>a random jpg from sa... you understand =]
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18:16|-|jekil [~alessandr@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22[~]taupehat has kicked tj in the shins!
18:24[~]encode has typed his system administrator password in irc
18:24<encode>not in this channel tho
18:25<taupehat>don't you love doing that
18:25<encode>not realy
18:25<taupehat>O RLY?
18:27<taupehat>that's like using a stored procedure to create a pair of jobs called 'OH ALSO' that do exactly what 'AND' does
18:27<encode>nooo! not the ioctl function call
18:27<taupehat>then letting some poor shmuck try to figure out your sql
18:27<encode>taupehat: sounds like you've been spending too much time at
18:28<taupehat>that's my invention(r)
18:28<encode>what is?
18:28<taupehat>was talking sql with a friend on irc, and he forgot he had capslock on
18:28<taupehat>said OH ALSO
18:28<taupehat>and I thought
18:28<taupehat>"hmm, what could OH ALSO do..."
18:28<efudd>"Everything OR can do and more!
18:29<taupehat>I figured it'd make a great alias for AND
18:29|-|npc [] has joined #linode
18:30<taupehat>SELECT DISTINCT `foo` FROM `bar` WHERE `foo.stuff` RESEMBLES "something" OH ALSO...
18:31<taupehat>watch the maintainer's head explode
18:31[~]efudd ponders how one makes that valid in C
18:31<encode>or, something like
18:31<efudd>#define OH\ ALSO(x) && (x);
18:31<efudd>nope.. hmm...
18:31<taupehat>I'm still trying to figure out how to overload the semicolon in C
18:32<efudd>pretty sure one can't.
18:32<taupehat>I bet caker knows
18:32[~]efudd bets against this
18:32<taupehat>in a cpp?
18:32<efudd>Im pretty sure ; falls into "uber reserved" category.
18:32<taupehat>what about ascii-escaping it?
18:32<encode>printf("%1 `foo' %2 `bar` %3 `foo.stuff` %4 \"something\" %5", distinct, from, where, resembles, ohAlso)
18:33<efudd>taupehat, well, that'd actually be a function of the compiler.. but...
18:33<taupehat>there's got to be a way
18:33<efudd>sure. hack the compiler.
18:33<taupehat>no no
18:33<taupehat>has to work on standard gcc
18:33<efudd>well, duh.
18:33<efudd>submit a subversive patch
18:33<efudd>wait for it to get distributed
18:34<npc>anyone have any recommendations for a *secondary* MX service provider that does pure hold and forward--not spam and virus filtering?
18:34<efudd>er.. wait, that's /.
18:59<abock>caker, mikegrb: my linode seems to be killed after about 20 seconds after initiating a boot... any ideas?
19:04<cmantito>any console output?
19:11<abock>no, just returns to lish
19:11<cmantito>anything in the jobs queue in LPM?
19:11<@caker>abock: which host?
19:12<cmantito>hey it's caker! :P
19:12<abock>caker: 51
19:12<abock>no, the boot will be killed regardless of how it is initiated
19:13<efudd>Rock on:
19:14<taupehat>I suspect caker will be among his first customers
19:14<@caker>abock: it's booted now. I reverted you back to 2.6.15-linode16. It appeasr as though the 2.6.16 has issues
19:14<@caker>happened to another Linode earlier today -- just quits w/o any console output
19:14<abock>I needed 2.6.16 because of TLS for Hula
19:14<@caker>Jeff and co have more patches I need to pull in
19:15<abock>it's been rocking for about a week
19:15<abock>until today
19:15<efudd>caker, place your order for '06 at
19:15<taupehat>* 65 mph top speed.
19:15<taupehat>efudd: you know he's doing that now
19:16[~]efudd pointing
19:16<taupehat>rear braking only though...
19:16<efudd>that's easily remedied.
19:17<efudd>modfiy the front ski to have small spikes that can be controlled
19:17<abock>sigh, yeah... hula segfaults now :/
19:17<abock>caker: any idea on when the problem will be fixed for .16?
19:17<efudd>abock, if not, it DEFINATELY will by 42
19:18<@caker>abock: not sure. I'll grab the latest 2.6.16-rc and build that this week
19:19<cmantito>after the arch image? ;)
19:20<abock>is TLS available on xennode?
19:21<@caker>yes, but we're having disk perf issues
19:21<abock>I basically have no mail support now :) ... I dumped postfix in favor of hula
19:23<@caker>I'll see if I can build one real quick
19:27<ExquisitePope>hula eh
19:27<abock>eh? yes
19:27<abock>why is that odd?
19:27<ExquisitePope>I'm just looking at it
19:28<ExquisitePope>seems to be an exchange-wannabe
19:28<abock>um, it's based on Novell NetMail
19:28<efudd>it sure as hell isn't a mail delivery system.
19:28<abock>yes it is
19:28<abock>among other things
19:28<efudd>it's something that wants to be a baller
19:28<ExquisitePope>yeah, it's like the server corollary to Evolution
19:28<efudd>abock, WRONG!
19:28<efudd></saturday night live skit>
19:28<ExquisitePope>"Evolution sure is a full-featured groupware suite. Pity about the e-mail, really."
19:29<efudd>(See, that's a determinated Capitalized 'heh'. It means something different than previously described.)
19:29<efudd>It's one thing to have a MTA and store. It's another thing to have a pretty UI.
19:30<efudd>It's quite something else to try to combine them.
19:30<efudd>a MUA should not be an MTA.
19:30[~]ExquisitePope shrugs
19:30<abock>there are different components to the platform
19:30<ExquisitePope>never used hula
19:31<efudd>I'm sure I won't ever use hula. Took me a few seconds to figure that out.
19:31<cmantito>see, I prefer a standard MTA (sendmail/postfix), with an IMAP server (dovecot), use WebDAV with iCal-style calendars, and an LDAP addressbook directory, and the approriate squirrelmail plugins to access it all.
19:31<abock>it offers an SMTP server, an IMAP server, etc.
19:31<efudd>dovecot is a baby. :/
19:31<cmantito>works well.
19:31<cmantito>so far so good
19:31<efudd>(lets just disagree on this point.)
19:31<efudd>otherwise i'm in agreement. :)
19:32<cmantito>I'm not gonna say it works perfectly. Some of my configurations which *Should* have worked, it hated.
19:32<cmantito>but the cofiguration I've got it in now seems to work.
19:32<efudd>then again, i'm the masochistic bastard who is using cyrus for a single person.
19:32<efudd>in case i need to support a few K users in the future..
19:33<efudd>mmm.. Yes. Those.
19:33<abock>then I am the masochistic bastard who is using hula for a single person ;)
19:33<efudd>no, see, you don't get to use "masochistic" that way.
19:33<efudd>The word you are looking for is "idiot".
19:33<cmantito>be nice ;)
19:33<efudd>I am!
19:33<efudd>I didn't fling poo.
19:34<cmantito>you were thinking about it...
19:34<efudd>Fine, I apologize. Kinda.
19:34<efudd>But I'm going to fling some poo to make me feel better about it.
19:34<abock>you're an ass... and I'm just being a good little Novell worker who wants to try another development team's product
19:34<efudd>I will not disagree with your supposition. :)
19:34<cmantito>ew, novell.
19:34<efudd>there i go again.
19:34<abock>"ew, ew..."
19:34[~]cmantito has had...countless..bad expereiences with Novell.
19:35<efudd>Didn't Novell go the way of.. oh, wait, they bought Suse.
19:35<efudd>Ah ha.
19:35<cmantito>or if you prefer,
19:35<efudd>abock, it's ok to work for a company *and* dislike their product.
19:35<ExquisitePope>Ah, SuSE
19:35<ExquisitePope>I met Mrs. Pope at SuSE
19:35[~]ExquisitePope gets all starry-eyed
19:35<ExquisitePope>ran Debian the whole time I worked there
19:36<abock>efudd: I do dislike many of the products; Hula is not one of them
19:36<efudd>abock, to phrase it differently, I wouldn't trust Hula (simply out of stubborness) to be a safe MTA.
19:36<cmantito>I used SuSE *very* briefly.
19:36<abock>and if I want to run the fucking server, then I will run it
19:36<efudd>I care little about the MUA and how pretty it is. (looks good acgtually.)
19:36<abock>I am aware of the issues, etc.
19:36<abock>trust me
19:36<efudd>No, you want to *trust it*
19:36<efudd><- Paranoid Android.
19:36[~]efudd makes beeping sounds
19:36<ExquisitePope>I think the ximian guys have cleaned SuSE up a bit here and there
19:37<taupehat>ExquisitePope: *ahem*
19:37<ExquisitePope>haven't used it
19:37<cmantito>Ximian -_-
19:37<ExquisitePope>but you should have seen the 5.x suses
19:37<taupehat>well, what are you talking about then?
19:37<cmantito>They make evolution, right?
19:37<ExquisitePope>no really
19:37<taupehat>yeah, cmantito, evolution. The best app you would love to see spend a whole hour without coredumping.
19:37<cmantito>I know that one.
19:38<taupehat>all too well
19:38[~]taupehat finally gave up and started using tbird on all 3 platforms he uses
19:38[~]ExquisitePope sticks with mutt
19:38<cmantito>I had to (try to) use Evolution back when I worked for the school. They had an exchange server and they refused to run imap or pop3
19:38<taupehat>yeah, I used evolution/mapi for years
19:38<cmantito>I use on OS X, tbird on linux, and I don't use windows, but I'd probably use Tbird there too.
19:38<taupehat>at my last job
19:39<taupehat>it was a hell of a lot better and more stable in 1.x
19:39<taupehat>evolution 2.x is a mess
19:39<taupehat>if ximian did that, then shame on them
19:40<taupehat>I can't imagine them "cleaning" suse up any... SuSE is an excellent KDE distro, and ximian is firmly in the gnome camp
19:40<taupehat>which makes them much less in my eyes
19:40<cmantito>which, ximian or suse?
19:41<efudd>Hrm. I wonder how well most companies would react to receiving a binary patch to their application....
19:41<efudd>or even if you handed them the code to that binary patch, woudl they grok it?
19:42<efudd>I'm betting that most develoeprs, if they actually received a binary patch, would not be able to figure out where it actually applies to their source to fix said problem.
19:42<cmantito>I wouldn't trust a binary patch.
19:42<taupehat>efudd: where are you going with this?
19:43<efudd>Further, lets suppose one generated a binary patch for some application. I'm guessing you'd be "OK" under the DMCA for that reverse engineering simply because the fault of the application caused interoperability probelms
19:43<efudd>oh, lemme prhase that dfiferently.
19:43<efudd>"assembly patch"
19:43<efudd>whether it be soft print or an in-memory loader or a patch to the binary.
19:43<efudd>taupehat, there are a couple of applications that I use regularly that I'm working on tracking down bugs through disassembly
19:43<efudd>I intend to fix them because their developers aren't.
19:44<efudd>afterwards I intend to provide them the fixes.
19:44<taupehat>can you spend some time on evolution? please?
19:44<efudd>I think it's bloated.
19:44<cmantito>what apps?
19:44<efudd>cmantito, er, a r/c flight simulator i use for example
19:44<efudd>if i leave it open for a few hours, idle.. when i go back to use it, it'll lock up within a few seconds
19:45<efudd>among other things.. it seems to alloc too much memory occasionally.. imemdiately frees it.. so it ieems.. but...
19:45<efudd>also the socket handling is .. er.. crap.
19:45<efudd>trying to connect multiuser will either (1) work, (2) fail, or (3) fail with smoke.
19:45<taupehat>I like (3)
19:45<efudd>it has other really piss-poor design choices...
19:46<efudd>like it saves your state... right? but only on a successful exit
19:46<efudd>yet it locks up often.
19:46<taupehat>you talking about evolution or your r/c app?
19:46<efudd>(1) If I change a config option runtime, FUCKING SAVE IT
19:46<efudd>my r/c app :)
19:46<taupehat>you could have been talking evo there
19:46<efudd>Yes, I'm all worked up about a game.
19:46<efudd>there is a reason i still stick with outlook :/
19:47<efudd>(foremost that i have to speak to an exchange server that isn't latest-n-greatest.)
19:47[~]taupehat runs a postfix server at work
19:47<taupehat>so there
19:47<taupehat>no calendaring though
19:47<efudd>nope. I need to be connected to the enterprise
19:47<efudd>that primarily.
19:47<taupehat>am probably going to zimbra in a couple months
19:47<efudd>zimbra feels bloat.
19:48<efudd>but that isn't backed up.
19:48<taupehat>I've actually run it
19:48<taupehat>very smooth for the power
19:48<taupehat>ran it under vmware on an existing server
19:48<taupehat>hit it pretty hard, and the CPU on the server didn't go up more than 5% of where it was sitting at idle
19:48<efudd>CPU is meant to be used.
19:49<efudd>if you can't ujse it, it's poor software design!
19:49<efudd>(holy crap my generalizations are .. uh.. broad...)
19:49<taupehat>if the app is running quickly, then who cares?
19:49<efudd>as a friend of mine said to someone who was complaining about 100% cpu.. "Who cares? You can't get them back."
19:58<efudd>how is it that there are *0* google hits on Narus and ST6400?
19:59<efudd>Warrant Management System™
19:59<efudd>The Warrant Management System™ (WMS) controls the targeting and interception for a given warrant. Narus Warrant Management System consists of a secure graphical user interface, targeting, and delivery subsystem for provisioning the access and delivery function. The Narus Warrant Management System (WMS) consists of a secure graphical user interface and a targeting subsystem for provisioning the access and delivery functions.
19:59<efudd>Mediation and Delivery System™
19:59<efudd>The Mediation and Delivery System™ (MDS) is responsible for delivering intercepted communications to one or more Law Enforcement Monitoring Facilities in the format appropriate for the type of intercept.
19:59<taupehat>we read slashdot here, too
20:00<efudd>the innernet was much more fun in 1991.
20:00<efudd>that's on /.?
20:00<taupehat>link to the kos
20:00<taupehat>chk t ot
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20:48<erikh>hi folks, is there a way to modify your PTR record?
20:48<kvandivo>is there a will?
20:48<encode>no, he died without leaving one
20:49<erikh>aha, I should read the fine links^Wprint more often
20:51<taupehat>erikh: yes
20:51<erikh>DNS hasn't made it to linode yet, so I guess I get to pout^Wbe patient
20:52[~]erikh really abuses^Wlikes using ^W in his speech
20:52<taupehat>try dd instead of ^W
20:52<erikh>you mean bdw
20:52<erikh>and i'm the emacs user!
20:52<taupehat>I mean dd
20:52<taupehat>ok fine
20:53<taupehat>where M is esc
20:53<erikh>taupehat: use /ignore :)
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21:00<RainBowX>how long does normal sign up take?
21:01<taupehat>RainBowX: anywhere from five minutes to a few hours
21:01<RainBowX>so it can take hrs?
21:02<RainBowX>cuz last time i did it it was right away
21:02<taupehat>that is more common
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21:26<JasonF>caker: has anything been done with host51 to keep it from panicking more?
21:28<@caker>JasonF: I'm going to schedule bios upgrades for two dev boxes that are similar to it, and if that goes ok (no way to really test the crashes), I'll schedule upgrades for the two boxes that are crashing often (51 and 41)
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22:18<@caker>efudd: <-- w/ video
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22:19<superbeef>do you guys ever have smb mounts that shit out and you can't unmount, or kill XMMS afterwards?
22:19<@caker>oh .. there's sound, too -- gotta unmute it
22:20<efudd>looks like it's relatively easy to lose forward momentum on that.. meaning, can get in a situation where you lose enough momentum and don't get traction enough on the landing...
22:20<efudd>== fall
22:20<@caker>haha .. they're jumping over the street .. nuts
22:20<efudd>oh. premuted sound. odd
22:20<@caker>snow on a real dirt bike is lots of fun to begin with
22:21<efudd>yeah, i'd imagine it gets ok traction depending on conditions due to knobby tires
22:22<@caker> <-- I used to ride one of those, back in the day
22:22<@caker>so it probably did a lot better than a normal dirt bike
22:22<@caker>but it was lotsa fun
22:23<efudd>my mom threatened divorce to my dad when i got a minibike once
22:23[~]efudd owned minibike a total of ~3hrs
22:24<efudd>in the end, they got divorced anyway!
22:24<@caker>shoulda kept it, eh?
22:24[~]efudd nods
22:24<efudd>apparently my mom was a nurse when thye first got married
22:24<efudd>saw too many burnouts
22:24<efudd>washout is the better term, i guess
22:25<@caker>(dirtbags) gettting hurt on bikes, I assume?
22:25<efudd>yeah, that.
22:25<TheFirst>bikes are great fun
22:25<efudd>so they agreed that their kids would "never" have a motorbike
22:26<TheFirst>that's why you have uncles that have bikes that you ride ;)
22:26<efudd>heh. scanned images.
22:26<efudd>nice cellophane!
22:26<TheFirst>geeze i've seen chicken legs thicker than that!
22:26<efudd>oh. i guess you grew up on bikes
22:27<TheFirst>reminds me of eric forman
22:27<efudd>that is begging for photochop
22:27<@caker> <-- nice gear we wore
22:27<@caker>yeah, there's some good ones in there
22:27<@caker>the moped one is a fav of my local friends
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22:28<efudd>kid i knew growing up... went back to check on him a few years ago...
22:28<mohney>hey can someone help me - i need to set up the Name Servers on godaddy, does have that litsed somewhere?
22:28<efudd>dude had been out riding with another friend on 4wheelers....
22:28<efudd>kid i knew realized his other friend wasn't behind him....
22:28<efudd>turned around....
22:28<@caker>mohney: there's a forum thread in the tips and tricks forum
22:28<efudd>still in coma
22:29<mohney>gotcha - found it
22:29<mohney>and thanks
22:29<@caker>efudd: my sister's childhood friend's brother was beheaded by a wire across two trees from dumbass hunters
22:29<@caker>I've encountered that ONCE, slid out/under the wire
22:29<efudd>why the hell would one hunt like that...
22:30<efudd>what, they setup wire then run a deer through it?
22:30<@caker>to keep us nois kids from scaring off the deer
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22:30[~]efudd nods
22:30<efudd>murder is a good way to do that appparently
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22:45<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host56 (2006-04-09) in Xen Public Beta <>
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 10 00:00:18 2006