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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-04-29

---Logopened Sat Apr 29 00:00:59 2006
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03:09<Antitribu>i feel like starting a mini flame war.... so, debian testing or debian stable?
03:09[~]taupehat is using etch
03:10<Antitribu>i want to set up a jabber server
03:10<Antitribu>and ejabberd is in testing but not stable
03:11<Antitribu>i'm wondering should i take that as a sign and move on
03:12<Antitribu>oh and is it just me
03:12<Antitribu>or does the linode latest 2.6 kernel cause bind to segfault
03:22<erikh>there was this great theme on, on the front page
03:22<erikh>made all the code look like java
03:22<erikh>err, irc conversation
03:22<taupehat>that's horrid
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03:44<encode>Antitribu: clearly linspire is superior to every other OS
03:44<encode>(hopefully that will add some fuel to the flames)
03:48<encode>the fire must have gone out before i wrote my comment
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04:58<Humanoid>When accessing the linode through lish, which device is lish accessing? /dev/tty1 ? or /dev/ttyS0?
05:49<Humanoid>Now, I can't even login to lish!
05:56<Humanoid>Now, I can't even reboot my computer, the web interface has the "System Shutdown" in the queue, and it's been more than 10 minutes that I'm waiting for it!
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06:55<alnr>host39 ok?
07:22<alnr>any problem on host37 (before I reboot my node)?
07:28<Humanoid>Okay, I think I've figured out why I can't login through lish. Ioctl's KDGKBTYPE and VT_GETSTATE are not working on /dev/ttyX or /dev/console. It seems to be a problem with the kernel.
07:30<Humanoid>Yesterday, I was not able to login to ssh at all, and neither through lish. But today, ssh is working, but I still can't login through lish, because /sbin/init isn't displaying a login prompt.
07:30<Humanoid>Why are there all these problems there now?
07:31<Humanoid>I didn't change anything... all I did was reboot.
07:33<Humanoid>Why isn't anybody speaking here?
07:33<Humanoid>alnr: are you there?
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08:16<afv-13>Humanoid: ssh in and check the inittab
08:16<afv-13>ensure that you have a getty
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08:30<Humanoid>afv-13: Yeah, I fixed it by putting the getty on tty0 instead of tty1-6
08:32<afv-13>cool, so how many do you have now?
08:32<Humanoid>I don't understand how that can be possible. /dev/tty0 is supposed to just be a pointer to one of the other /dev/ttyX
08:32<Humanoid>afv-13: I just have one getty line for tty0 and that's it.
08:32<afv-13>good, that's all you need
08:36<Humanoid>Does /dev/tty0 work differently under uml than in regular kernels? Which /dev/ttyX is /dev/tty0 pointing to?
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08:37<afv-13>to /dev/tty0
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08:41<Humanoid>The linux documentation says "0 = /dev/tty0 Current virtual console" which should point to something between /dev/tty1-63 or /dev/ttyS0-191
08:41<afv-13>well mine points to itself
08:41<Humanoid>/dev/tty1 is the first virtual console. tty0 should point to whichever virtual console is "current"
08:42<Humanoid>I'm not talking about pointing via a file link. The pointing is done inside the kernel.
08:42<Humanoid>character device 4 0 is tty0. Internally to the kernel, it points to one of the other character devices.
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09:24<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host15 in System and Network Status <>
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10:38<warewolf>that's it
10:38<warewolf>I'm buying the ORA CSS book.
10:38<warewolf>this is way too frustrating
10:39<Spads>the mini reference is okay
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10:46<jekil>problems on host21?
11:11|-|rh [] has joined #linode
11:11<rh>would anyone be able to tell me what, if any, backups are in place for the nodes?
11:12<gpd>only what you do yourself
11:15<gpd>unmanaged baby :)
11:15<rh>i need a virtual backup tape :)
11:15<gpd>use rdiff-backup and offsite magic
11:17<gpd>rh: are you a current linoder?
11:18<afv-13_> /home /var/www and /etc
11:18<jekil>how i can now my new ip after migration to xen?
11:18<rh>since yestreday
11:19<rh>i'll have to look up if data replication in mysql will work better than rdiff..
11:19<gpd>i have a cron that does mysqldump
11:19<gpd>but it is not perfect
11:19<afv-13_>what problems are you having with that?
11:20<rh>ever tried replication, gpd?
11:20<gpd>no problems - just only as good as the time interval
11:20<gpd>never tried replication
11:20<afv-13_>how often do you dump?
11:21<gpd>that is a personal question ;)
11:22<gpd>twice daily at the moment
11:22<afv-13_>so i'll have to buy you dinner first
11:22<gpd>but i'm eating a lot of fiber (boom boom)
11:26<rh>i did a chattr +i to my empty tls dir (as it was screwing up my upgraded centos 4 installation).. per chance you know if yum will panic on next glibc upgrade?
11:27<gpd>you can use the kernel - it supports NTPL
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11:29<rh>so no big worries on the experimental tag on it?
11:29<gpd>not for me - ymmv
11:29<rh>good to know
11:29<gpd>or go really funk and try the .17-rc2 :)
11:29<gpd>uml fixes in there - not sure if anyone using it yet
11:30<rh>not feeling like going into minefields these days.. ;)
11:30<afv-13_>rh: be warned, some have had problems with the .15
11:30<rh>such as?
11:30<afv-13_>me being one of those people
11:30<afv-13_>kernel panics
11:31<afv-13_>haven't tried .17 though
11:33<rh>scary enough for me
11:33<rh>thanks for the heads up
11:33<afv-13_>.12.3 has been doing well
11:34<afv-13_>but then no tls/ntpl
11:35<gpd>!acronym nptl
11:35<linbot>gpd: No definitions found.
11:36<gpd>linbot: nptl is native posix thread library
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12:58<myfnp>caker: ??
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13:07<fidjiter>i have a question when linode bills my account what will the company show up as.
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13:13<gpd>fidjiter: ^^ on my statement
13:13<fidjiter>ok thanks i saw that on my bank statement and didn't know what it was
13:14<fidjiter>im broke and im tryin to figure out what i need. (i need linode) so i was going to call the company and cancel what ever it was but now i know what it is and i will keep it
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15:58<linbot>New news from forums: Manage my linode account in General Discussion <>
16:02<afv-13_>that's his second post asking for someone to manage his linode account
16:02<afv-13_>in 3 minutes
16:04<linbot>New news from forums: Managing my linode in Sales Questions and Answers <> || managing my linode in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
16:10<linbot>New news from forums: Who wants to manage my linode?! in General Discussion <>
16:12<efudd>that was me
16:12<efudd>oh wait. he's now going back and editing his posts.
16:12[~]efudd cries
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16:59<timbee>I am probably butting into a conversation so appologies if I am since I do not know anything about what you are talking about. However I am looking for someone to manage my linode. At the moment my designer has put in what he described as a script that will simply restart the server every day, this way
16:59<@caker>timbee: there's really no need to post your message three times
16:59<@caker>no big deal, however...
17:00<timbee>yes, appologies for that
17:00<@caker>maybe shared hosting would be better suited for you?
17:00<timbee>I am not sure what you mean but since it is here and my designer put it here then I think I will leave it
17:01<timbee>the reason he did is because i wanted a hell of a lot of subdomains
17:01<@caker>managed hosting -- something where everything is managed for you via a nice and easy web-based control panel (like, creating email accounts, adding subdomains, etc)
17:01<linbot>New news from forums: Pulling in locales on Debian in General Discussion <> || Reboot: host53 in System and Network Status <>
17:03<timbee>right, he is setting up his own server but apparently it will take him a lot of time to send it over so I thought he just as well concentrate on the sub domain system.
17:03<timbee>thanks for that though
17:04<timbee>should i leave now - probbly overstayed my welcome, if I was welcomed!
17:06<timbee>I have emailed local linux groups after a suggestion perhaps that might help.
17:06<kriby>what are you even wanting?
17:18<linbot>New news from forums: play list in General Discussion <>
17:19<timbee>someone to manage my linode account, my designer has put as a script that will simply restart the server every day but I think I may need an administrator as well to have a look at it. Mind you the only content is probably equivalent to about 3000 words at the moment!
17:21<timbee>It's just that it is always going down - which is really embarassing.
17:24<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host53 in System and Network Status <>
17:24<afv-13_>why restart the server daily?
17:27<timbee>No idea - beacause the system is always stopping, unable to access the database or something.
17:28<timbee>but it has just poped up now for some obscure reason -
17:30<timbee>It is now working - it could be because the designer has just restarted it?
17:30<afv-13_>i think he restarts it cause he has no idea what he's doing
17:31<timbee>sorry I have to go now becasue the nternet cafe is closing but my email address is
17:31<timbee>ok ,god, so what shuold I do?
17:31<timbee>can you manage it?
17:32<afv-13_>i can but i'm not interested
17:33<timbee>right thanks any advise or people who may be interested before I go?
17:33<afv-13_>get web hosting
17:34<timbee>nope can't too late I am here!
17:34<afv-13_>the kind where you can mail people and complain
17:34<afv-13_>it's never too late
17:35<timbee>no, I want to have lots of sub domains soon
17:35<afv-13_>how many?
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17:35<timbee>loads and loads maybe millions! well thousands any way
17:36<tryggth>Chris, what do I do if there is no phone number on my credit card? Also, maybe I can just use my old account? (couldn't get it to find my e-mail address)
17:36<afv-13_>then read up on mysql and php
17:37<timbee> ok sorry I better go cheers they are getting a bit anoyed with me here - they want to go home thanks, can't I am not clever enough
17:38|-|macdan [] has quit [Quit: Got Itch?]
17:39<timbee>but please contact me on the forum etc night.
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17:45<gpd>there is always the option of installing ispconfig - or even paying for cpanel! That would solve some of your issues (not that i have read the above throughly)
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18:10<encode>gpd: i dont hink that would solve " the system is always stopping, unable to access the database or something."
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18:58<linbot>New news from forums: Kernel: 2.6.17-rc2-linode19 (with NPTL/TLS support) in Announcements <>
19:09|-|Ciaran [] has joined #linode
19:10<Ciaran>Was anything up with host36 being slow? Or is it just my Linode?
19:13<@caker>Ciaran: host36 looks fine to me
19:13<@caker>Ciaran: however, your node is about 130M into swap
19:14<Ciaran>Yeah, I noticed.
19:14<Ciaran>That's why I was thinking it might be my Linode.
19:21<afv-13_>130M is quite a bit
19:21<afv-13_>any idea what process?
19:23<Ciaran>Well, Apache and MySQL were using a lot. For some reason, an irssi process is too. I know who's running the irssi process but I have no idea why it's talking up a lot of memory.
19:23<Ciaran>In any case, I stopped and restarted Apache and MySQL. Unfortunately it's not going to make a lot of difference long-term.
19:46<warewolf>irssi takes up a lot of memory because it logs
19:46<warewolf>irc logs
19:47<gpd>anyone got a masterplan for partitioning desktop systems for linux/windows?
19:47<gpd>I have one IDE and two SATA drives
19:47<gpd>atm it is a RIGHT MESS
19:49<gpd>not sure if i can get grub to boot into windows directly on a SATA
19:50<warewolf>you can
19:50<warewolf>the SATA drive should show up as a bios drive
19:50<gpd>here they are: 1x 200G IDE, 1x 200G SATA, 1x 400G STAT, 1x 250G USB
19:51<gpd>not sure what to do with the IDE - probably best not to run OS from it as it is likely slower
19:51<warewolf>I have
19:51<warewolf>SCSI device sda: 390721968 512-byte hdwr sectors (200050 MB)
19:51<warewolf>SCSI device sdb: 390721968 512-byte hdwr sectors (200050 MB)
19:51<warewolf>SCSI device sdc: 390721968 512-byte hdwr sectors (200050 MB)
19:51<warewolf>^ all SATA
19:52<afv-13_>if that sata is just sata and not sata2 then you'll get the same speeds out of it as the ide
19:52<gpd>ok - but b4 i had issues with booting to XP on SATA with my mobo
19:52<warewolf>could have sworn that I had a PATA drive in thre
19:52<gpd>lots of people had the same problem on the forums :(
19:52<warewolf>afv-13_: says who, and why?
19:53<warewolf>IIRC sata 1 is 150mb/sec
19:53<warewolf>and the highest pata went was 133mb/sec (again, if I remember correctly)
19:54<afv-13_>that's the maximum the standard could handle, not the true throughput
19:54<afv-13_>early sata was practically a converted interface
19:55<warewolf>ok you're taking historical data and applying it to the present. Stop that.
19:55<afv-13_>but now with sata2, the hitachi drives are very impressive
19:55<warewolf>sata1 drive like the WD Raptor 10kRPM drives exist, and actually churn lots of data very fast and very well.
19:56<gpd>how do you identify a SATA 2 drive over 1 ?
19:56<afv-13_>if you can affort a raptor
19:56<warewolf>gpd- I doubt you have a SATA 2 drive.
19:56<afv-13_>they'd be displaying sata2 everywhere
19:57<@caker>gpd: sdparm
19:58[~]gpd sagis
20:00<warewolf>sdparm is a retooled hdparm, and is fairly new. You might not have it.
20:01<gpd>Breezy has it - i ran it - it gave me jibberish - i googled the drive - it is SATA1
20:01<gpd>which is fine as i have a sata 1 mobo anyway
20:02<@caker>I haven't found an SATA2 drive that comes anywhere near SATA 1's physical speed limitation .. other than that, I dunno if there are other benefits
20:02<iggy>I hear that new 750G seagate is a screamer
20:03<warewolf>anything that large, in 1" and that isn't made by hitachi w/ the new vertical bits thing is bound to be trouble.
20:03[~]warewolf swears by western digita
20:03<gpd>interesting... sda1=54.64MB/sec hda1=58.52MB/sec
20:04<warewolf>gpd- linux's sata drivers kind-of suck because sata is new
20:04<warewolf>gpd- the whole "libata" thing is still a little rough around the edges
20:04<afv-13_>could be your hda got lots of hdparm loving
20:04<gpd>ya - new enough for ppl in stores to look blankly at me when i ask for a cable
20:04<sonorous>caker: might sound a ridiculous question, but any idea when linode will switch too total xen usage?
20:04<@caker>libata is rockin, but the drivers for specific devices might be rough, IMO :)
20:04<warewolf>oh, and many MANY sata chipsets are asstastic too
20:05<@caker>sonorous: not until it's worthwile -- and right now, it isn't IMO...
20:05<@caker>sonorous: so to answer your question, I want to give Xen a while longer to mature and to have better QoS features
20:05<gpd>i presume there are no tweaks with sdparm that i should know about
20:05<@caker>sonorous: otherwise, our implementation of Xen is 100% feature complete, and for new hosts I've placed online, it only takes a reboot to switch to/from UML/Xen (literally)
20:05<warewolf>gpd- man sdparm :)
20:06<sonorous>caker: interesting
20:06<sonorous>caker: how are the xen host machines holding up?
20:06[~]warewolf grins at caker. Somebody has been busy.
20:06<sonorous>caker: are they going strong?
20:06<@caker>sonorous: roughly ... stability issues, and the obvious disk I/O QoS problem
20:07<sonorous>caker: so you still feel UML is a better option?
20:07<@caker>sonorous: that's even with hardware RAID1, all the goodies, etc, etc
20:07<sonorous>for now, at least
20:07<@caker>sonorous: yes
20:07<sonorous>interesting, I have 2*xen domains in london and a UML @ Linode..
20:07<@caker>sonorous: and we're going to continue using it for a while, and that's a good thing. With the TLS/NPTL stuff coming down the pipeline, and Jeff's performance improvements (softints), it just gets better and better
20:08<gpd>caker: are those softints in .17 only?
20:08<@caker>I honestly don't know how the Xen-hosting folks have weathered it (and their clients)
20:08<@caker>gpd: no, they came along in .15, I believe
20:09<@caker>maybe it was .16 ... /me forgets
20:09<sonorous>well, this host machine doesn't have many domains..
20:09<sonorous>it's a 256M domain
20:09<sonorous>my other is on a host machine which is largely idle
20:09<faye77>when is the best time on weekdays for existing customers to order additional linodes? i might find out on monday/tuesday that i'll need 1-2 more linodes.
20:09<sonorous>so it doesn't really scale compared to linode
20:09<@caker>sonorous: yeah, it seems to do well with low usage
20:10<@caker>sonorous: we only ran into problems when we got a "production" load on it
20:10<@caker>sonorous: both with stability and i/o fairness
20:10<sonorous>this box, I'm not sure how many domains - but 256M, can't be too many; the other has 9 domains (I know that for a fact)
20:10<@caker>faye77: new signups get checked multiple times daily
20:11<sonorous>ranging from 64M - 256M
20:11<@caker>I'm *almost* done getting these three new hosts online (we started taking orders for them last evening)
20:13<afv-13_>caker: just at hurricane?
20:13<@caker>afv-13_: the new hosts, yeah .. but there are a few open slots at TP if you want one there
20:14<warewolf>caker- oh so get this. Yahoo looks to be /yet another/ place that has blackholed TP as a spam heaven.
20:14<afv-13_>when did TP get a xen box?
20:14<warewolf>caker- all mail from my box (eventhough I run spf/sid/domainkey) gets silently dropped :(
20:14<@caker>afv-13_: I wasn't talking about Xen .. TP has an old Xen dev box, but we're not moving people to it
20:14<@caker>warewolf: wow .. that's something I need to know about
20:14<@caker>anyone have a yahoo email account I can send a test to?
20:15<warewolf>caker- make one. duh.
20:15<@caker>I'd rather not bother
20:15<gpd>caker: graviez
20:16[~]warewolf reactivates his yahoo mail account for testing too
20:17<gpd>actually - that is a one
20:17<warewolf>1 sec folks
20:18<afv-13_>you can try afv1981
20:18<@caker>warewolf: ok, it went through for me
20:18<gpd>err... swap partition at start or end of drive - or 'wotever'
20:18<afv-13_>it's a .com
20:18<@caker>gpd: start is faster for reads
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20:19<gpd>caker: i remember some trauma with swap as first partition -wrt Windows
20:19<warewolf>Apr 29 21:18:51 xabean sendmail[2125]: k3U1HdXT002122: to=<> ... [], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (ok dirdel)
20:19<warewolf>my mail showed up as bulk
20:19<@caker>afv-13_: looks like it went out
20:19<warewolf>Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by Learn more
20:19<warewolf>what the fuck
20:20<warewolf>you verify it, and file it in the bulk inbox?
20:22<gpd>so is there a performance diff between primary and extended partition? or some other reason why i would want to only have primaries?
20:22<gpd>i seem to have inherent fear of extended partitinos - but no real reason
20:23<afv-13_>caker: straight into the inbox
20:23<warewolf>gpd=there is no performance difference
20:23<afv-13_>as well as a mail offering bigger stronger errections
20:24<gpd>ok: hda1=swap,2=20G /,3=5G (distro testing),4=Rest Data && sda=WinXP && sdb=DATA
20:26<gpd>sensible or stupid?
20:26<afv-13_>put swap on a different disk than / and also the pagefile on a different disk than C:
20:27<afv-13_>make it 2 swap partitions with the same priority
20:27<warewolf>yahoo isn't silently dropping, but they're tagging all my mail as bulk spam.
20:27<@caker>warewolf: you freaking spammer, you
20:27[~]warewolf pwnz caker
20:28<gpd>swap usage: 0k
20:28<gpd>hmm... i think 2 swap sounds better - don't like having to rely on both disks being in the machine
20:29<warewolf>and ofcourse yahoo isn't adding anything useful in their side of the message headers explaining why the mail was tagged as bulk.
20:29<afv-13_>but the swaps must be on different disks
20:29<gpd>1 swap on the / disk and another on a different one - how is that?
20:29<gpd>i've always had swap on the same disk as / :(
20:29<warewolf>; domainkeys=permerror (no key)
20:30<warewolf>there it is
20:30<linbot>my name is mud
20:30<warewolf>but that still doesn't explain why yahoo bulk-filed my mail from
20:30<warewolf>; domainkeys=pass (ok)
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21:31<Eman>haha, half an hour without an ethernet cable plugged into this pc and the server didnt figure out that i was gone
21:32<FireSlash>Eman, Get a new OS.
21:32<FireSlash>Read that wrong.
21:32<FireSlash>Get a new IRC network.
21:32<Eman>or the server should have the pingout time set lower
21:33<@caker>Eman: your PC online through NAT?
21:33<@caker>yeah, something was still pinging back then
21:33[~]caker guesses
21:33<Eman>thats weird, cause i got d/c'd everywhere else i am
21:35<@caker>moments after the pen picture was taken were very painful, I'm sure
21:36<fo0bar>caker: from what I read, it just bounced off his face
21:36<fo0bar>when you throw a pen, it's usually tumbling around in the air, but in that photo, it REALLY looks like it's a straight shot to his eye
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 30 00:00:45 2006