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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-04-30

---Logopened Sun Apr 30 00:00:45 2006
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00:44<@caker>!calc 9.3/5
00:44<linbot>caker: 9.3 / 5 = 1.86
00:45<@caker>^-- Amps (RMS) per new AMD host ... not bad
00:45<fo0bar>what are the xeons usually? about 2.5?
00:45<@caker>yeah
00:46<fo0bar>nice
00:46<fo0bar>so, I didn't get a chance to try xen on the VT PD :(
00:46<@caker>actually, one rail is 2A ... (host50-55)
00:47<@caker>!calc 13.7/6
00:47<linbot>caker: 13.7 / 6 = 2.28333333
00:47<fo0bar>but vmware is very very fast... supposedly takes advantage of VT transparently
00:47<@caker>^-- the other
00:47<@caker>fo0bar: huh...
00:47<@caker>what's in cpuinfo? vtx?
00:48<fo0bar>it's currently in transit, and I didn't save info beforehand
00:48<fo0bar>no wait
00:48[~]efudd blinks
00:48<efudd>backread timbee's comments
00:48<efudd>i am sadface now.
00:48<efudd>(welll, at least drunk.)
00:48<@caker>efudd: that you didn't take advantage?
00:48<efudd>I was busy getting my drink on!
00:48<@caker>efudd: you don't want that pain, trust me
00:48<efudd>HEH :)
00:49<fo0bar>http://www.finnix.org/submits/x86/1145907151-3492276741-855465353.gz
00:49<efudd>2 large sake's and 2 jack daniels, doubles, neat, later, I'm home!
00:49[~]efudd downloading dr. who 28x03 for perusement.
00:49<@caker>fo0bar: ahh, vmx
00:49<fo0bar>I see no vtx, but I do see vmx
00:49<fo0bar>yeah
00:49<efudd>so caker, sorry about the follow-up on those 3 posts he made. couldn't help myself really.
00:49<@caker>dmidecode does a nice job of giving a little more detail as to what those stand for/do
00:50<@caker>efudd: no biggie ... they needed to be deleted anyway ... I also got a PM on the forum, and we got a ticket
00:50<fo0bar>yeah, I'll be integrating dmidecode into the next version of finnix-hwsubmit
00:50<efudd>Heh heh. :-)
00:50<fo0bar>this one I put in manually
00:50<efudd>no phone call? so sad.
00:50<@caker>probably .. I rarely answer
00:50<fo0bar>but dmidecode will be optional, because it has potentially "private" stuff (such as serial numbers)
00:50[~]caker grins evilly
00:51<@caker>yeah .. dmidecode came up with my serial numbers as 12345678
00:51[~]efudd generally stares at the telephone when it rings wondering "What is this noisy device and why is it in my home?"
00:51<fo0bar>yes, it seems supermicro doesn't set them
00:51<efudd>supermicro, the king of fucked up ACPI!
00:52<fo0bar>which is weird because each package is "certified" (serial number on systems correspond to both chassis and mobo)
00:52<@caker>fo0bar: huh .. both my SM Xeon and AMD boxes come back w/o a valid serial number
00:52<@caker>maybe dmidecode isn't poking the right place ...
00:53<efudd>since when does vmware take advantage of VT extensions?
00:53<fo0bar>caker: I haven't seen one that reports correctly yet... it's possible (but weird) that they would not set it
00:53<fo0bar>caker: but they are setting that 0123456789, since most mobos I see it's null instead of that
00:54<fo0bar>efudd: workstation since 5.5 I think, and server in the free beta (which I was running)
00:54<efudd>interesting.
00:54<@caker>huh ...
00:54<@caker>Physical Memory Array
00:54<@caker> Location: System Board Or Motherboard
00:54<@caker> Use: System Memory
00:54<@caker> Error Correction Type: Single-bit ECC
00:54<@caker> Maximum Capacity: 12 GB
00:54<@caker>yet:L
00:54<@caker># free -m
00:54<@caker> total used free shared buffers cached
00:54<@caker>Mem: 16233 14079 2154 0 20 13822
00:54<@caker>:)
00:54<efudd>Er.
00:55<efudd>16MB is more than enough for anyone! --bill G.
00:55<efudd>(at that point, a missing 2^2 is nothing.)
00:55<fo0bar>caker: I see many mobos where DMI memory stuff is severely messed up... like a workstation with a single 512MB stick showing up as dual 1Gs
00:56<efudd>So, hardware is basically software that's made it past an acid trip?
00:56<fo0bar>efudd: or most likely, is still on the acid trip
00:56<efudd>oic.
00:57<fo0bar>heh, dmidecode doesn't even list VMX
00:57<fo0bar>or maybe it doesn't understand it yet
01:01<fo0bar>btw
01:01<fo0bar>http://pastebin.com/689610 <-- mikegrb: this will help your pansy lack of sata drivers in future finnix versions
01:03<fo0bar>currently, finnix uses knoppix's hwsetup to scan the pci table and compare it against a static table of modules
01:04<fo0bar>but recent 2.6 kernels export regexs to module names, that can be matched against pci ids
01:05<fo0bar>and it only takes 100ms to do on average :)
01:17<@caker>fo0bar: where do you place the applications you've installed onto your pocketpc?
01:18<@caker>anywhere in the program files folder(s) and they don't appear
01:18<fo0bar>caker: most apps are distributed as cabs and self-install... let me check where pocketputty is
01:18<@caker>yeah
01:19<@caker>that's the one
01:19<fo0bar>I just put it in Program Files\PocketPuTTY\PocketPuTTY.exe
01:20<@caker>ok .. a subfolder
01:21<@caker>yeah .. still doesn't appear in "Programs"
01:21<@caker>oh well
01:21<fo0bar>hmm
01:21<fo0bar>however, I do not remember how I got it on the start menu... I remember it was not intuitive
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01:29<@caker>huh .. MS Voice command is payware
01:31<fo0bar>caker: it may be pay, but it's totally worth it
01:32<@caker>ok, I must be an idiot .. I can't get Opera to actually GO to a URL
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01:35<efudd>so unfortunate that M$ voice command is payware. :/
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01:48<efudd>Hrm. So I'm thinking that a Traxxas E-Maxx r/c truck might make a good starting platform for a K-9 (dr. Who) model.....
01:48<efudd>lesse.. $339 for the E-maxx....
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02:05<Spads>efudd: haha, I totally had plans like that in the 80s
02:05<efudd>sadly, i just ordered an e-maxx :)
02:05<efudd>Subject: Thank you for placing your order with Tower Hobbies!
02:06<efudd>this'll be YetAnotherProjectThatRots
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02:11<Spads>00:11 -!- kokoko is dead
02:12<efudd>hrm.
02:12<efudd>i also happen to have a dead-ish t-maxx from ~2000 that had a rollcage.
02:12<efudd>if I transplant that rollcage, it'll be a perfect mounting point for the K-9 body.
02:13<Spads>I haven't seen the new K-9 yet
02:13<efudd>I'm thinking ghetto-ish...
02:13<efudd>silver spraypaint... cardboard...
02:13<Spads>does it still have the pushbuttons on the top and the screen on the side?
02:13<efudd>EL-wire....
02:13<efudd>no screen was seen, but pushbuttons, yes.
02:13<efudd>Wagging head is probably doable with minor magic.
02:14<efudd>(think oblog rotating ghetto-gear)
02:14<Spads>the original head didn't wag
02:14<efudd>s/oblog/oblong/
02:14<Spads>it was just an RC car with a frame over
02:14<efudd>perhaps I just wanted an excuse to buy an e-maxx.
02:14<Spads>so they'd have to run in slow motion alongside it
02:14<Spads>and speed up the film after
02:14<efudd>Heh.
02:15<Spads>tom baker hated the first k-9
02:15<Spads>so they retired it
02:15<Spads>and built another model which got mentioned in the show as one the doctor built
02:15<efudd>at some point, i'll pony up the dorrahs for the first ~25 seasons of dr. who
02:15<Spads>I assume that by "dorrahs" you mean "bittorrent"
02:15<efudd>That'd require me to be non-lazy.
02:16<Spads>I see.
02:16<efudd>i mean, if i found a .torrent that said "all dr. who. EVAH. ONE PHAT LINK", I might start upa client....
02:16<efudd>(especially if it was pre-organized into seasons.. and perhaps had pretty blue blinking lights.)
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02:23<efudd>Oh. gumball 3k starts this wk.. well, today in london.
02:24<Spads>gumball?
02:25<efudd>yes. The Gumball.
02:25<efudd>http://www.gumball3000.com/
02:25<efudd>It is where ReallyRichPeople ignore all rules and drive like bastards a few thousand miles in a week's time.
02:25<Spads>oh
02:25<Spads>motorcars.
02:25<efudd>Yes.,
02:26<efudd>those damned mechanical coaches.
02:26<Spads>#1 cause of death for human beings worldwide
02:26<efudd>Right behind "Stopping Living" from what I hear.
02:27<Spads>No.
02:49<warewolf>damn.
02:49<warewolf>stabby stab McStabby.
02:58<linbot>New news from forums: Anyone attending the Red Hat Summit (2006) in Nashville? in /dev/random <http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2168>
03:00<efudd>new to me!
03:00<efudd>er...
03:01<warewolf>efudd- Oh, you work for netapp right?
03:02<warewolf>efudd- tell whomever borked openssh into the netcaches that the netcaches barf if your ssh client tries to ask it to forward X back to you.
03:03<efudd>netcache isn't a generic ssh server.
03:03<efudd>regardless, open a bug. or rfe, or whatever.
03:03<efudd>or more specifically "don't do that."
03:04<warewolf>according to it's syslog, it's openssh. :)
03:04[~]efudd shrugs
03:05<efudd>fwiw, i don't touch netcache. never logged into one... all that said, it's highly likely that the netcache doesn't have the same tty concept that .. er, well, who knows really. i'm too drunk to answer.
03:06<warewolf>haha
03:06<warewolf>that works
03:06<warewolf>oh god
03:06<warewolf>the enterprise pushed out Tivoli patches
03:07<warewolf>er patches VIA tivoli
03:07<warewolf>this is concerning me because it fucked with local account settings in the registry
03:07<warewolf>I swear to god if they undid all my unfucking their group policy shit I am going to have a cow
03:08<warewolf>FUCK
03:08<warewolf>THEY DID
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05:32<encode>warewolf: are you talking about group policy applied to your pc? or everyone's pc
05:36<encode>http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/12/circumventing-group-policy-as-limited.html
05:49<warewolf>group policy applied to every workstation in the domain applied via active directory
05:50<encode>ahh, well that sux then
05:55<warewolf>yeah tell me about it
05:55<warewolf>it's why I'm very happy that I have a solaris workstation
05:56<encode>fortunately i dont have to deal with people's PCs at work :)
05:57<encode>although i might have to do some work if a patch broke a group policy
05:57<encode>i dont know how that would happen though
05:57<warewolf>heh
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07:50<warewolf>w00t
07:51<warewolf>I just realised that since I have my very own ssl certificate for mail (me, just me, a "client" certificate) that I can do smime mail now.
07:51<warewolf>my mail has just reached the OMGWTF point (this mail goes to eleven!) on cryptography.
07:51<warewolf>DomainKeys+smime+pgp
07:51<warewolf>holy shazbot
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11:10<erikh>so, I did a small rearch of my home network this morning
11:10<erikh>amazingly, what I figured would not work did
11:11<erikh>I took an unmodified linksys router, and set it up to nto advertise dhcp and keep it's gateway off the network
11:11<erikh>then, plugged a custom build firewall into the switch portion, and all hte wired hosts into that
11:11<erikh>the custom build firewall runs a local BIND and DHCPd
11:12<erikh>wireless gets both of them now too.
11:12[~]erikh notes this is preferable to the crappy double-nat he was doing before
11:17<gpd>nice work
11:17<gpd>I on the other hand am totally screwed
11:18<gpd>tried to get rid of my small IDE drive (with XP loader partition)
11:18<gpd>but now can't get XP rescue console to find XP install on SATA disk
11:19<gpd>probably need 3rd party floppy for SATA driver
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11:39<gpd>hmm 3rd party SATA loaded, logged into SATA xp install - tried fixboot, fixmbr - ok
11:39<gpd>tried bootcfg /rebuild -- fail :(
11:39<gpd>(i realize nobody cares - i'm just spreading the pain)
12:06<afv-13>windows doesn't support sata?
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12:22<erikh>sata raid, perhaps?
12:22<erikh>or a non-standard controller
12:24<gpd>well - i was missing ntldr and ntdetect.com - so copied them from cd
12:25<gpd>now i just need to work out which device is my sata in boot.ini
12:35<gpd>success :)
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12:53<@caker>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EVEL-KNIEVELS-Custom-1984-Aston-Martin-Lagonda_W0QQitemZ4635283270QQcategoryZ5358QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
13:00<@caker>http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/29/motorcycle-headcase-2-guy-stuffs-ferrari-engines-into-two-cust/ <-- nuts
13:02<kriby>you know you want it
13:20<gpd>err is grub stupid or is it me? /dev/sdb1 = (hd1,0) correct?
13:20<gpd>it seems that /dev/hdb1 also = (hd1,0) :(
13:22<@caker>gpd: afaik, it's totally dependant on how devices are enumerated --- you might not have hda, only hdb, so hdb is (hd0) ...
13:23<erikh>it probably is controller order + hdd order
13:23<erikh>eg, you have a scsi controller that comes before ide, etc.
13:24<gpd>so how do i find which is which? - grub configfile TAB thing didn't work :(
13:24<erikh>and that's probably dependent on which controller to tell to boot.
13:24<@caker>gpd: /boot/grub/device.map should be accurate
13:24<gpd>device.map only has /dev/hda and /dev/sda - no sdb ?
13:25<@caker>there's an option to grub to remake/rescan for it
13:26<@caker>gpd: grub-install --recheck
13:26<@caker>--recheck
13:26<@caker>Recheck the device map, even if /boot/grub/device.map already exists. You should use this option whenever you add/remove a disk into/from your computer.
13:26<gpd>k - thanks, trying
13:27<gpd>sweet - sdb = hd2 ! thanks caker
13:29<gpd>this is the opposite of your uberbikes:
13:29<gpd>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4930794.stm
13:30<gpd>crap: unknown partition 0x7...
13:34<gpd>looks like i need some grub map funk
13:39<gpd>ok map (hd0) (hd2), map (hd2) (hd0) --- fixed
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15:12<@caker>!avail
15:12<linbot>caker: Linode80 - 24, Linode120 - 31, Linode160 - 22, Linode240 - 15, Linode320 - 15
15:12<@caker>yeee haw
15:12<fo0bar>whoah
15:23<afv-13>how many boxes were added?
15:24<@caker>three this past week, two a few weeks prior
15:24<@caker>and another 7 on the way :)
15:24<afv-13>damn, that's growth
15:25<@caker>well, I hadn't added any since November because I was holding off for Xen
15:25<afv-13>how heavy is the admin load?
15:25<@caker>it's ok
15:29<afv-13>i know there is the 'pay for a year' deal, but are there any contract style options?
15:30<@caker>hmm?
15:31<afv-13>well a contract would tie a user to linode for a longer period in exchange for some more resources
15:31<@caker>we've just been doing the extra disk space deal
15:32<afv-13>yes, but no everyone can afford to pay for a year upfront even though they plan to be with linode for a year
15:32<afv-13>*not
15:35<TheFirst>me!
16:18<warewolf>caker- hey, I got a coworker who has rack space you might want to throw uml/xen boxes in.
16:19<warewolf>caker- he was saying crazy things like "I want to make my own linode"
16:19<warewolf>caker- I was all like "No, you want to resell through linode or something. Go talk to caker'
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16:42<Dreamer3>ping
16:43<Dreamer3>caker: how goes Xen?
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19:49<warewolf>sometimes I fucking love it how up2date just doesn't work on fedora core.
19:49<warewolf>There was a fatal error communicating with the server. The message was:
19:49<warewolf>URL: http://mirror.phy.olemiss.edu/mirror/fedora/core/updates/4/i386///ethereal-0.99.0-fc4.1.i386.rpm
19:49<warewolf>Status Code: 404
19:49<warewolf>Error Message: Not Found
19:52<Spads>you and JWZ both
19:52<Dreamer3>yeah
19:52<Dreamer3>redhat sucks
19:52<Dreamer3>use debian
19:52<Spads>see, that's the difference between warewolf and jwz
19:52<warewolf>go away spads.
19:52<Spads>jwz actually has the balls to ignore people who say things he doesn't like
19:53<Spads>warewolf just threatens.
19:53<warewolf>Dreamer3: debian sucks. Use Windows NT.
19:53<Spads>so like, jwz would be all "go ahead and tell me to use something else if you want to enter my router's black hole"
19:53<Spads>and then he'd do it.
19:54<Dreamer3>yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
19:54<Dreamer3>windows nt
19:54<Dreamer3>i'll get right on it
19:54<warewolf>Dreamer3: yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
19:54<Dreamer3>i use OSX on the desktop now exclusively
19:54<warewolf>Dreamer3: debian
19:54<warewolf>Dreamer3: i'll get right on it
19:54<Dreamer3>are you a mirror bot?
19:55<Spads>That would rule
19:56<warewolf>I am --><-- this close to telling fedora to stuff it and go back to redhat 9 with my own updates again.
19:56<Dreamer3>do it
19:56<Spads>be a man
19:56<Dreamer3>anything that keeps you moving
19:57<warewolf>the frustrating thing is that up2date bombs over and ver again, but each time I re-run 'up2date --nox -u' it progressivly gets farther and farther along.
19:57<warewolf>I do not like programs that function erraticly. Especially under unix.
19:57<Dreamer3>me neither
19:57<Dreamer3>i rewrote vlogger the other day just cause it was ticking me off
20:00[~]warewolf blinks
20:01<warewolf>so uh, I guess up2date's yum repo functionality stuff doesn't work.
20:01<warewolf>yum itself, does.
20:01<warewolf>(so far)
20:01<@caker>what's the benefit using up2date vs yum update?
20:01<warewolf>up2date is the standard redhat tool for updates
20:02<warewolf>up2date for fedora core was extended to not require the RHN, but to use yum repos
20:02<warewolf>it looks like that "extension" is more of a "hack".
20:02<warewolf>Transaction Summary
20:02<Spads>http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2006/04.html#29 <-- warewolf
20:02<@caker>so basically, keep using yum update
20:02<warewolf>==========================
20:02<warewolf>Install 5 Package(s)
20:02<warewolf>Update 125 Package(s)
20:02<warewolf>Remove 0 Package(s)
20:02<warewolf>Total download size: 364 M
20:02<warewolf>Is this ok [y/N]:
20:02[~]warewolf mashes y
20:02<warewolf>caker- yeah, either that or apt4rpm.
20:03<warewolf>caker- you know as well as everyone else who runs redhat on a linode NOT to use yum.
20:03<warewolf>takes up way too much memory
20:03<@caker>I moved to apt on all those RH9 boxes of mine a long time ago, and never looked back
20:03<warewolf>this is my desktop box at home
20:03<@caker>of course, I didn't (or did, for a while, me forgets) have a RHN account
20:03<warewolf>it gets reinstalled frequently
20:03<warewolf>all my "server" boxes auto update themselves, and mail me stats and stuff.
20:04<warewolf>(my fileserver, my IDS, my router, my linode, the other boxes I co-admin... )
20:04<warewolf>Oh, and nova. I have root on nova.
20:04[~]warewolf waits for caker to jump.
20:04<@caker>heh
20:05<warewolf>GOTCHA
20:05<warewolf>caker- so anyway, like I was talking at you earlier
20:05<@caker>yeah .. my boxes in some random guy's cabinet space doesn't sound very attractive
20:05<warewolf>massive data center.
20:06<warewolf>they bought it out, and they're fixing it up.
20:06<@caker>url?
20:06<warewolf>um, I dunno.
20:06<@caker>location?
20:06<warewolf>I forget where.
20:06<@caker>next DC is going to be east coast, methinks
20:06<warewolf>I'll be glad to get him in touch with you.
20:06<warewolf>I was thinking it'd be better to have him as some kind of reseller than competition
20:07<@caker>I'd rather take on the competition, TBH
20:07<@caker>:)
20:07<warewolf>this guy tends to attract the einstein-smart folks with lots of money.
20:07<@caker>but, there are always other considerations
20:07<warewolf>if anything, he's got people skills.
20:07<warewolf>he knows how to manage people and to get shit done.
20:12<warewolf>interesting, fedora core 4 doesn't have thunderbird 1.5 yet
20:12<warewolf>I wonder why
20:25<warewolf>holy crap
20:25<warewolf>sager makes nvidia SLI notebooks now.
20:25[~]warewolf drools
20:26<FireSlash>SLI: Biggest waste of money EVAR
20:26<FireSlash>money better invested in a video card twice as expensive, which will almost always perform better.
20:27<FireSlash>(with nearly half the power requirements and heat emissions)
20:27<FireSlash>Plus the wasted expansion slot
20:27<warewolf>um.
20:27<FireSlash>And wasted money on a more expensive SLI board.
20:27<FireSlash>Its not cost effective.
20:27<warewolf>haha
20:27<warewolf>right
20:27<warewolf>when have gamer machines ever been cost effective?
20:27<warewolf>you're missing the point
20:28<FireSlash>warewolf, There's always a price point.
20:28<FireSlash>Is SLI sexy? Yes.
20:28<FireSlash>Is that the point? probably.
20:28<warewolf>ungodly performance is the point.
20:28<FireSlash>Would I buy an SLI notebook for the same price as a regular one? No. Never.
20:29|-|oneman [~oneman@ip68-230-208-113.rd.hr.cox.net] has joined #linode
20:29<warewolf>urlme benchmarks that back up your statements.
20:31<afv-13>there is a slight hit with sli, can't just double the one cards performance
20:32<warewolf>and there's a slight hit with two CPUs in one server.
20:32<warewolf>it is to be expected, and is normal.
20:33<FireSlash>NVIDIA nForce 4 for Intel Pentium 4 (A02 Silicon) – P4 3.4GHz - Doom 3, High Settings, 1600x1200, 6x Anti-Aliasing
20:33<FireSlash>NVIDIA GeFORCE 6800 Ultra - 45.9 FPS
20:33<FireSlash>NVIDIA GeFORCE 6800 Ultra SLI - 55 FPS
20:33<FireSlash>http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1065&redirect=yes
20:33<FireSlash>22% increase. TOTALLY worth the price. :P
20:33<warewolf>FireSlash: again, you miss the point.
20:34<warewolf>FireSlash: you're looking at FPS. That's not the only benchmark.
20:34<warewolf>FireSlash: And, if you're complaining at the bang-per-mhz per dollar, go look at intel/amd CPUs.
20:35<FireSlash>I'm not complaining at all.
20:35<afv-13>22% at more than double the price?
20:35<FireSlash>http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/sli/index.x?pg=4
20:35<warewolf>FireSlash: The point, is performance. The point is being able to run graphics intensive video games /full tilt/ at absolutely massive resolutions. 8x antitropic filtering, triliner filtering, FSAA, realistic water effects -- all without having a system that chokes on the load, and the heat.
20:36<FireSlash>SLI is clearly the fastest.
20:36<FireSlash>I'm not debating that
20:36<@caker>people will pay.
20:36<warewolf>and it would allow you to crank up all those visual quality settings.
20:36<warewolf>holy shit
20:36<FireSlash>I'm sayibng that the moderate increase is a GIANT waste of money for anyone not loaded with cash.
20:36<warewolf>someone caught on
20:36<warewolf>caker++
20:37<FireSlash>people do pay.
20:37<FireSlash>Never debated that either
20:38<gpd>sorry to interject - but how would you format a drive in linux to best remove any data on it - dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdx bs=1M - but this might take HOURS?
20:38<warewolf>gpd- check your dma settings.
20:38<warewolf>gpd- hdparm -c1d1 /dev/hdX
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20:38<warewolf>whoops
20:38<warewolf>I didn't do it, I swear
20:38<warewolf>FireSlash: and anyway, there's no point in having framerates over 30.
20:39<FireSlash>warewolf, Wrong.
20:39|-|gpd [~gpd@70.85.16.173] has joined #linode
20:39<gpd>ya - both are on
20:39<FireSlash>There is no point in having a framerate higher than your monitor's refresh rate
20:39<warewolf>FireSlash: oooookaye then explain why id software decied to LOCK the framerate in doom 3?
20:39<FireSlash>Oh? Mine isn't locked.
20:39<warewolf>FireSlash: and what is the refresh rate on today's LCD monitors? How many frames per second can they push out?
20:40<warewolf>FireSlash: And how many frames per second can you visually tell the difference in?
20:40<warewolf>anything above 30 is unnecessary.
20:40<FireSlash>warewolf, Depends. Though, most do at least 60 on their lowest setting. CRTs can go as high as 120, even higher
20:40<FireSlash>warewolf, The human eye can tell the difference between 30 and 60.
20:40<warewolf>but it shouldn't drop much BELOW thirty.
20:41[~]warewolf locates doco for his viewsonic monitors
20:41<FireSlash>Infact, 60 and 75 are often discernable.
20:41<FireSlash>(You will see this on CRT monitors mostly)
20:41<warewolf>I said framerate, not refresh rate :)
20:42<FireSlash>Refresh rate = # redraws per second
20:42<warewolf>I know
20:42<FireSlash>framerate = # redraws per second. Different place, same thing in the end of the day
20:42<warewolf>newp
20:42<gpd>[any other formating / disk cleaning tips? - does ext2/3 cut it?]
20:42<warewolf>you can have an absolutely massive refresh rate, and an abysmlly slow frame rate.
20:42<warewolf>they're completely unrelated.
20:42<FireSlash>You misunderstand.
20:43<FireSlash>I'm looking at this as to how the eye sees it
20:43<FireSlash>OBVIOUSLY, high refreshrates won't affect fps
20:43<warewolf>right.
20:43<FireSlash>I'm making the point that the eye can tell the difference.
20:43<warewolf>and likewise, there is no point in trying to push a framerate higher than your refresh rate.
20:44<FireSlash>Right.
20:44<warewolf>on CRTs (due to nasty flicker) I would keep my refresh rate at 72 or 75.
20:44<warewolf>non interlaced ofcourse, we're not stuck in 1992 :)
20:44<FireSlash>Of course.
20:44<FireSlash>Except
20:44<FireSlash>TVs are interlaced still. Unless its HD
20:44<warewolf>correctl.
20:44<FireSlash>But thats off topic :)
20:44<warewolf>nod
20:45<gpd>haha - off topic
20:45<FireSlash>There is no way for sure to determine how many frames per second the eye can discern
20:46<FireSlash>It may vary from person to person
20:46<FireSlash>But I personally see a clear difference between 30 and 60.
20:46<warewolf>refresh rate :)
20:47<FireSlash>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision
20:47<FireSlash>Good reading
20:47<warewolf>I guess the best way to test is to use film (eg, projection, at a theatre) to test "framerate"
20:47<warewolf>take a whole bunch of cameras recording to film, one at 30, one at 60 and one high speed camera and play them back at the correct speed
20:48<warewolf>I doubt you'll do much more than waste film at the higher speeds
20:49<FireSlash>From that article "there is no "frame rate" or "scan rate" in the eye: instead, the eye/brain system has a combination of motion detectors, detail detectors and pattern detectors, the outputs of all of which are combined to create the visual experience."
20:49[~]warewolf nods
20:50<FireSlash>Its very possible that different people may have slight variations in persistance of vision, producing different results in this
20:50<warewolf>very
20:50<warewolf>You have: 25 ms
20:50<warewolf>You want: seconds
20:50<warewolf> * 0.025
20:50<warewolf> / 40
20:50<warewolf>so my LCD can do a 40hz refresh rate .. I think
20:50<warewolf>(my math sucks)
20:51<warewolf>doco says the response time is 25ms (TR + Toff) ... whatever that means
20:51<FireSlash>Well, with LCDs, the images somewhat blur into eachother...
20:51<FireSlash>So in games, lower framerates are less evident.
20:51<warewolf>except where it is jarring
20:51<FireSlash>Especially at higher response times
20:51<FireSlash>Right.
20:52<warewolf>http://www.viewsonic.com/support/desktopdisplays/lcdtv/n1700w/
20:52<warewolf>^ my three monitors
20:53<FireSlash>Ooh.
20:53<FireSlash>20 watts
20:53<FireSlash>I'm sure those are loud.
20:53<warewolf>at $500+ a pop and how fragile they are, I almost wish I had't bought them
20:53<warewolf>actually they're suprisingly loud.
20:53<warewolf>I don't use them though.
20:53<warewolf>their bass response is astounding.
20:54<FireSlash>Haha. Someone messed up on that page.
20:54<FireSlash>"Enjoy full stereo sound on your desktop or counter with two built-in !?!integrated_speaker_wattage!?!-watt speakers."
20:54<warewolf>that would appear to be some kind of substitution language that broke
20:55<warewolf>like %%EMAIL%%
20:55<warewolf>%%FIRST_NAME%%
20:55<warewolf>etc
20:55<FireSlash>Yes.
20:55<FireSlash>Usually its percent signs or dollar signs though. Hmm.
20:55<warewolf>one interesting feature that I do like about these monitors is the buttons are touch-sensitive
20:55<warewolf>like those wall switches that are just a bare metal plate
20:55<warewolf>just tap it
20:56<warewolf>gotta use your finger though
20:56<warewolf>can't use anything that doesn't have capacitance or resistance
20:56<FireSlash>Yeah. I've seen the tech, they used it on lamps a lot
20:56<FireSlash>Said lamps usually die in around a year :/
20:57<warewolf>bugged the hell out of me for a while, I kept hitting the button multiple times accidentially for the first X number of months
20:57<warewolf>but the monitors have dvi-i/15pin din/TV in
20:58<warewolf>sucky thing is the TV-in features are done through a dongle -- that when attached, kill the DPMS capabilities of the monitors
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21:03<warewolf>efnet test complete
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21:13<warewolf>FireSlash: holy crap, I am going to purchase one of these: http://www.grand-illusions.com/toyshop/einstein_hollow_face_illusion/
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23:25<@caker>huh ... http://svn.navi.cx/misc/trunk/uml-tools/io-throttle/
23:25<fo0bar>Added "set mark-symlinked-directories on" to /etc/inputrc
23:25<fo0bar>^^ caker
23:25<@caker>fo0bar: ahh, the tab completion thing?
23:26<fo0bar>yeah
23:26<fo0bar>http://www.finnix.org/Finnix_dev_Release_Notes#Changes
23:26<fo0bar>not many changes even though it's (exactly) a month since the last release
23:26<fo0bar>but not much has come up
23:26<@caker>weird .. looks like that io-throttle.c util was mentioned in here last August
23:26<@caker>guess I missed it
23:27<fo0bar>I'm still waiting for unionfs to get off their butts to make a stable release for >=2.6.16
23:27<fo0bar>there are... problems with the unionfs snapshot in finnix 87.0
23:27<efudd>http://www.islostarepeat.com/ <- now THAT is useful.
23:28<fo0bar>looking back, I really should have stayed with 2.6.15
23:28<@caker>oh? something blow up?
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23:28<fo0bar>that was weird
23:29<fo0bar>caker: yeah, it completely broke apt-get
23:29<fo0bar>http://www.finnix.org/blog/2006/04/03/apt-get-broken-in-870/
23:30<@caker>when/why would someone apt-get inside Finnix?
23:30<Spads>http://www.finnix.org/blog/2006/04/03/apt-get-broken-in-870#comment-52 <-- uh, isn't that how you mak ethe overlays HAPPEN?
23:30<@caker>as opposed to, inside a chroot .. oh, I guess there are --root params and whatnot
23:30<Spads>caker: "Oh no, I need scsigoobertools!"
23:31<@caker>hmm..
23:31<fo0bar>yeah, what spads said
23:31<fo0bar>finnix includes a lot of stuff, but you can install more for the session, limited only by ram
23:38<fo0bar>also, I replaced the former hwsetup autodetection thingy with a 50-line perl script that basically does the same, and more :)
23:38<fo0bar>http://pastebin.com/689610
23:39<@caker>I heard ... I have no understanding on that side of things
23:39<@caker>modules matching pci device IDs ...
23:39[~]caker shrugs
23:39<fo0bar>oh yeah, I mentioned it yesterday
23:39<fo0bar>well, today I actually put it into a build
23:40<@caker>still giving away CDs/week?
23:40<fo0bar>not in the last 3 weeks, I need to write a reminder program or something :)
23:40<@caker>haha
23:41<@caker>I'm calling the BBB
23:41<fo0bar>or just write a script to activate it randomly each week
23:41<fo0bar>DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY
23:41<fo0bar>oh, BBB, not BSA
23:41<@caker>Boy scouts of America?
23:41<@caker>j/k
23:42<@caker>huh .. BSA offers rewards up to $200k to report software piracy
23:42[~]caker moles
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23:45<Eman>i guess emacs really is an os
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---Logclosed Mon May 01 00:00:29 2006