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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-05-06

---Logopened Sat May 06 00:00:19 2006
---Daychanged Sat May 06 2006
00:00<encode>gpd: i did a B Sc majoring in comp info sys
00:00<encode>and minoring in electronics, logic systems etc
00:01<encode>what was your doctorate on?
00:08<alnr>gpd: actually what i am trying to do is write a script which will do scp, taking a file arg that was completed by tabbing. so that file c/b either in the path or must just be expanded (does that make sense?)
00:08<FireSlash>Anyone know of an adapter to angle slot 1 processors, allowing them to fit in a 2U case?
00:08<alnr>i guess basically the same kind of search that an editor would do given an unqualified file name
00:10<alnr>scratch that, editor wouldnt search path
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00:16<CpuID>sup ppls
00:29<gpd>alnr: how much of this filename do you have? and how unique is it?
00:29<gpd>scp `find . |grep foo` user@bar: ?
00:31<gpd>or do you want the list from bash that it gets when you press tab... that you can then parse?
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00:57<CpuID>hmm anyone here tried the NPTL/TLS enabled 2.6.16/2.6.17-rc kernels yet on their linode?>
00:57<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host33 in System and Network Status <>
00:57<@caker>^-- wrong
00:59<@caker>CpuID: afaik, they work, aside from the randomly occuring "shutdown after reboot" bug, which appears to be on our end due to, what I can only guess as I haven't debuged it yet, PIDs of the UML process changing/going away on the host
01:02<Battousai>up 187 days, 10:16
01:02[~]Battousai <3 caker
01:02<Battousai>i havent touched this thing in months :>
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01:57<CpuID>sorry caker, was fixing dsl :)
01:57<CpuID>thx for the info, which distros have you tested it on btw?
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11:58<gpd>linux101 - part 2: you have a directory tree with files and subdirs - each may have spaces in the names. You want to recursively change all dirs and files to 755 and 644 respectively.
11:58<gpd>this does not work with spaces:
11:58<gpd>sudo sh -c "find . -type f | xargs chmod 644 && find . -type d | xargs chmod 755"
12:19<erikh>you have to use -J to xargs
12:19<erikh>xargs -J chmod 755 "%"
12:20<erikh>or use find -print0
12:20<gpd>you... little... beauty!xargs: invalid option -- J
12:20<erikh>gpd: that might be bsd
12:20<gpd>i was excited for a minute there
12:21<erikh>did you read the manual?
12:21<gpd>looking now
12:21<erikh>find . -print0 | xargs -0 chmod 755
12:21<erikh>should work
12:22<erikh>oh nope, that will just work if the filename contains a new line
12:22<gpd> xargs -0 looks promising
12:22<efudd> goddamn these are long flights
12:22<efudd>26 hours
12:22<efudd>28 hours
12:22<efudd>24 hours..
12:22<efudd>motherfuckers are INSANE if they think I'm going coach on this.
12:23<gpd>err... flying to the moon? what the hell?
12:23<gpd>longest flight i've been on is 14 hours
12:23<erikh>gpd: looks like -i might do what you want
12:24<efudd>19hr:45minutes for one leg of the flight
12:24<efudd>one way.
12:24<efudd>That's a cheap one.
12:24<gpd>surely not -- I got a round the world ticket for $1600
12:24<efudd>oh. did i mention i'm flying out tomorrow?
12:25<gpd>nice talking to you
12:25<efudd>these fuckers need to call me and confirm this already.
12:25<efudd>flights are selling out quickly.
12:25<gpd>where from ?
12:26<efudd>it's the RDU->$WHEREVER hop that becomes interesting.
12:26<erikh>arg. yeah, print0 and -0 to xargs will do what you want
12:26[~]erikh is tired
12:26<gpd>erikh: you are a hero :)
12:26<erikh>level 3 calls me at 3am to tell me they can't find a server because my business partner didn't label it
12:27<erikh>and no one knows what cabinet it's in
12:28<warewolf>log into it
12:28<warewolf>and eject the cdrom drive.
12:28<erikh>warewolf: if I could log into it
12:28<erikh>I wouldn't have much reason to call, would I?
12:28<warewolf>that's the trick I always use to identify the box
12:29<erikh>no, it's just that my partner really shouldn't be handling hardware
12:29<warewolf>I scared the SHIT out of one of my roommates by ssh'ing into his firewall box (in his bedroom, up aboce his head on some cabinet) by running 'eject; eject -t'
12:29<erikh>and now he gets to make a two hour drive to press a power button
12:30<efudd>ww, heh.
12:31<efudd>old coworker would play through the sun speaker device to find machines.
12:31<warewolf>there you go
12:31<warewolf>what's his face
12:31<warewolf>guy I know would make his sun boxen play some stupid song when a drive failed in it
12:31<warewolf>some shell script he wrote
12:31<gpd>that reminds me to find out where the default drive is set for eject - as mine seems to eject hdd not hdc
12:31<warewolf>"why is 'It's a small world' playing in the server room?"
12:32<warewolf>gpd- ls -la /dev/cdrom
12:32<gpd>heh - warewolf good point
12:33<gpd>that is one of those things where you think 'it is annoying, but i can't be bothered to start looking into it 'cos i may well take 10 seconds --- or it might rob you of 2 hours'
12:33<gpd>... the joy of linux
13:10<gpd>does anyone know anything about vonage boxes? ie. can you have two different account on the same DSL/Cable line?
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16:03<Battousai>rocky iv is on
16:03<Battousai>almost over though
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16:56<linbot>New news from forums: Kernel: with NPTL/TLS support in Announcements <>
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19:12<warewolf>it's not right if you decide to get away from your roommates by going to work right?
19:12<@caker>warewolf: roommates == thesuck
19:13<@caker>the only fistfight I've ever initiated was with a roommmate of mine, if that tells you anything
19:13<@caker>(not that I'm recommending that as a potential solution, but it felt good at the time)
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20:43<linbot>New news from forums: xen update in Xen Public Beta <>
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21:58<warewolf>I appear to have messed up my ssl certificates
22:16<erikh>that's not cool
22:16<erikh>hope you have a self-signed CA
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22:41<warewolf>bI do
22:41<warewolf>and I just fixed it
22:41<warewolf>thank god you can regenerate a csr off an existing cert, and the key
22:42<warewolf>I had a whole bunch of keys expire TODAY.
22:42<warewolf>I thought I already had taken care of it
22:42<warewolf>I couldn't even send mail, I had sendmail configured to require SSL certs :)
22:42<warewolf>May 6 23:41:24 xabean sendmail[8552]: k473fO90008552: --- 235 2.0.0 OK Authenticated
22:43<warewolf>man, does ramping up the debug level in sendmail help sometimes :)
22:50<Dreamr3>anyone around?
22:51<Dreamr3>once I'm getting up to $79.95 perr month what's the advantage of virtual over fully dedicated hosting?
22:51<Dreamr3>since you can get dedicated with a lost more resources starting at $99
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23:06<linbot>New news from wiki: SSH Dynamic Port Forwarding <>
23:12<warewolf>now I broke my openvpn
23:12<warewolf>Dreamr3: you'd be lucky to find real colo/dedicated hosting at $80/mo.
23:12<warewolf>or $100/mo.
23:12<warewolf>colo/dedicated is FUCKING EXPENSIVE.
23:12<Dreamr3>but i can get 80gig, 1500gb of bandwith and a 2.4ghz for $129
23:13<Dreamr3>that's close to $79
23:13<Dreamr3>i'm just asking once you scale so high - what are the advantages of staying virtual
23:13<Dreamr3>oh, 1 gig of ram
23:14<Dreamr3>i have 160mb virtual now, but my memory requirements are about to go way up
23:14<warewolf>advantages of staying virtual: near-instant upgrades
23:14<warewolf>easy console access
23:14<warewolf>easy re-install
23:14<Dreamr3>near instant upgrades to what?
23:14<warewolf>near instant upgrades of memory/hard drive space
23:14<warewolf>try that on a dedicated/colo box.
23:14<warewolf>it'll take you a month.
23:15<Dreamr3>i've never tried...
23:15<Dreamr3>just going to get a new ded box and move everything if i go that route
23:15<Dreamr3>(rather than upgrade)
23:15<warewolf>I doubt you seriously need that much horsepower
23:15<Dreamr3>the console access is nice if you plan on hosing your system
23:16<Dreamr3>warewolf: Ruby on Rails eats memory and CPU
23:16<warewolf>then stop using RoR
23:16<Dreamr3>impossible :-)
23:16<warewolf>"Doctor, it hurts when I lift my arm"
23:16<Dreamr3>it's our chosen development platform
23:16<warewolf>"then stop lifting your arm, you idiot"
23:16<Dreamr3>i'd fire that doctor
23:16<Dreamr3>i LIKE lifting my arm
23:17<Dreamr3>but each instance of an app can suck 25-50mb... so i moved rails apps to a diff shared provider, but it's starting to suck - like most shared providers
23:17<warewolf>holy FUCKING SHIT that's a memory jog!
23:17<warewolf>what the hell is it doing with all that memory?!!!
23:17<Dreamr3>ruby and lots of libraries :-)
23:18<warewolf>I say this seriously
23:18<warewolf>your development playform sucks ass.
23:18<Dreamr3>hahaha, deploying lots of little apps with not much memory sucks...
23:18<Dreamr3>but development and deployment is great for larger apps
23:19<Dreamr3>basecamp, tadalist, backpack, campfire... all large apps
23:19<warewolf>I've heard enough bad (and just plain stupid) things about RoR that make me cringe every time I hear someone say they love it.
23:19<Dreamr3>but when you want one app 20 times on a big box... not a big deal... but when you want to run 20 sep apps on a little box... it hurts
23:20<Dreamr3>warewolf: hmmm, interestign... i've used a few languages... and i've found it the easiest thing to build solid web apps yet
23:20<warewolf>I have to hand it to RoR, it's fucking-fast rapid prototypign
23:20<Dreamr3>it's raipd development period - even outside of the scaffold carp
23:20<warewolf>but it's not programming.
23:20<Dreamr3>is to :-)
23:20<warewolf>that scaffold stuff is just asstastic
23:20<Dreamr3>no one uses scaffolds - it's just to get started
23:20<warewolf>and that stuff about how once you start your app running
23:21<warewolf>and then ruby dicks with it
23:21<warewolf>and you want to go back and change something in it
23:21<warewolf>newp, it's gone you have to start over
23:21<warewolf>lemme find the url
23:21<Dreamr3>if you're running in production mode and you make a change you have to restart the processes
23:21<Dreamr3>not in development...
23:21<Dreamr3>real production apps shouldn't be changed like every 5 minutes though
23:22<Dreamr3>that was proven a total non-problem
23:22<Dreamr3>some production apps i never touch, others get updates every few days
23:22<Dreamr3>but maybe you're talking about something diff
23:23<warewolf>fuck it vanished
23:23<warewolf>here's the cache
23:23<Dreamr3>dude, if it's scaffolding i don't care to hear about it :-)
23:23<Dreamr3>scaffolding is not for anythign serious
23:24<Dreamr3>it's a toy
23:24<Dreamr3>but this would be interesting to read :-)
23:24<Dreamr3>ah, it loaded
23:25<Dreamr3>this is going to be great
23:25<Dreamr3>reading now
23:26<Dreamr3>#1 has never proven a problem... you setup your relationships once - it all works
23:26<Dreamr3>and usually I need more than simple joins, so that reminds me to wrote other related model code
23:27<Dreamr3>this is old
23:27<Dreamr3>and critiquing stuff that is no lnoger even true
23:27<warewolf>please tell me that Rails doesn't really enforce some bullshit "table_id" constraint
23:27<Dreamr3>warewolf: convention over configuration... if youw ant to do it your own way you can tell it another name for the field
23:27<Dreamr3>but if you do it the rails way, it all works for free
23:28<warewolf>dude, the programming language has no business constraining what you name your keys in your database.
23:28<Dreamr3>i've never had a client suggest I name foreign keys a given way, and I don't find the rails way an annoyance... but yes, it can support legacy (non-Rails) schemas
23:28<warewolf>that is absolutely absurd.
23:28<Dreamr3>warewolf: then don't use it :-)
23:28<Dreamr3>it's helped build great projects and keep my clients happy, that's why I use it :-)
23:28<warewolf>I'm not, and I doubt I ever will.
23:29<warewolf>I use real programming languages that don't take the programming out of programming.
23:29<Dreamr3>ha, it's definately a flame
23:29<Dreamr3>some real critism sprinkled here and there, but also some old stuff that's no longer true...
23:29<Dreamr3>but Rails is oppinionated software... it's on purpose - not everyone will agree :-)
23:30<Dreamr3>warewolf: i don't miss anything that rails has "taken out" of my programming :-)
23:30<Dreamr3>mostly less overhead, more fun building the actual app
23:30<warewolf>you scare me.
23:31<Dreamr3>i launched with 106 lines of code :-)
23:31<Dreamr3>warewolf: try that in your fav language :-)
23:31<warewolf>how many libraries did your 106 lines of code pull in?
23:31<warewolf>and I'm certian I could do the same
23:31<Dreamr3>and i sure don't miss whatever LOC i had to write in another language
23:31<Dreamr3>warewolf: just Rails... and a stub for user authentication...
23:32<Dreamr3>but the main user model is included in the 106
23:32<warewolf>"just Rails", which probally in itself comes packaged with a whole swath of libraries you pulled in.
23:32<Dreamr3>that lets you edit/create/save wiki pages, sign up for a new account, retrieve your password, gives you your own subdomain... not bad for 106 LOC
23:33<Dreamr3>warewolf: it gives you the model, view, and controller layer - part of what makes working with Rails so easy...
23:33<Dreamr3>you just handle the actual request... don't have to deal with silly details
23:33<warewolf>Dreamr3: did you ever use Visual Basic?
23:34<Dreamr3>warewolf: nope :-) C, C++, Pascal, Basic, C#, Ruby :-)
23:34<warewolf>I get the impression you'd enjoy Visual Basic.
23:34<warewolf>for the same reasons I hate it.
23:34<Dreamr3>i converted an ASP app from VB to JS :-)
23:34<Dreamr3>i liked the JS much better
23:34<Dreamr3>but that was a few years ago
23:34<Dreamr3>C# isn't bad either
23:35<@mikegrb>mmm cake
23:35<Dreamr3>but ruby takes the cake :-)
23:35<Dreamr3>anyways, it makes me happy, makes me productive... i get a lot of work done with less effort than other languages... and my clents are happy... where is the problem? :-)
23:36<Dreamr3>and what's wrong with libraries? I sure do enjoy using other people's code for peripheral tasks when I can... saves a heck of a lot of time...
23:36<Dreamr3>code reusability, all that :-)
23:37<Dreamr3>warewolf: but this review you sent me is definitely not at all objective :-)
23:37<Dreamr3>but then again, we'll be perfectly happy if you pick whatever language you like :-)
23:38<Dreamr3>i guess if you want to write every line of code, libraries, etc... and know you built it all yourself you wouldn't like a smart framework
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23:43<Dreamr3>warewolf: oh, i have a functioning file upload manager in only 56 LOC :-)
23:43<Dreamr3>warewolf: no libraries other than Rails :-)
23:43<Dreamr3>warewolf: no, 48 lines of code
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23:47<warewolf>"no libraries other than Rails" is moot.
23:47<warewolf>your adherance to "lower line count == good code" is broken.
23:47<warewolf>a possible real challange would be for you to impliment your same functionality without using any core rails libraries.
23:48<warewolf>obscurity programmign is bad.
---Logclosed Sun May 07 00:00:11 2006