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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-05-07

---Logopened Sun May 07 00:00:11 2006
00:04<Dreamr3>i have no interesting in writing a webserver and framework from scratch
00:05<Dreamr3>it's good and readable code... the app passes all tests, and runs well in production... when the framework gets a bug fix, so do i
00:05<Dreamr3>i like using a framework
00:05<Dreamr3>i guess that's just a ideology diff
00:05<@mikegrb>Dreamr3: everything from warewolf is a flame
00:06<Dreamr3>mikegrb: ah
00:06<@mikegrb>Dreamr3: or were you taling about the url?
00:06<Dreamr3>mikegrb: thanks for telling me
00:06<Dreamr3>mikegrb: hey
00:06<Dreamr3>mikegrb: why should i get a big linode and not a dedicated box?
00:06<Dreamr3>any ideas?
00:06<Dreamr3>i need lots of ram
00:06<@mikegrb>it depends on your priorities/needs
00:06<Dreamr3>i can get 1gig for $129
00:07<@mikegrb>if ram is a large concern, you are likely better off with a cheap dedicated
00:07<@mikegrb>just watch for hidden fees
00:07<Dreamr3>right, i already have one dedicated :-)
00:07<@mikegrb>reboots normally run $15-50
00:07<@mikegrb>some have a limit of 2 or 3 support tickets, then charge a fee, etc
00:07<Dreamr3>never had a problem with the planet
00:07<@mikegrb>but for a production enviroment, those aren't huge concerns
00:08<@mikegrb>since you aren't normally rebooting often, or doing funky things that have a chance of breaking the system
00:08<Dreamr3>i really like linode, but Rails eats a lot of RAM
00:08[~]mikegrb nods
00:08<Dreamr3>what is extra ram these days?
00:08<Dreamr3>for linodes?
00:09<@mikegrb>a dedicated server with the console access/remote reboots etc like linode would be in the $250+/month range
00:09<@mikegrb>but if you can get by without the price drops
00:09<@mikegrb>I believe it's 20MB/$5
00:10<Dreamr3>i've only requested one remote reboot in like 2 years on this other box :-)
00:10<Dreamr3>they didn't charge :-)
00:10<Dreamr3>but i agree, you start wanting things like local console you pay for those
00:10<@mikegrb>waiting is an annoyance though
00:10<Dreamr3>mikegrb: it was only a few minutes... hmmm
00:10<@mikegrb>I dread a host I can't reboot going down
00:11<Dreamr3>i like linodes too because i feel more people are looking after the boxes
00:11<@mikegrb>we have a 15 min max gaurantee from the DC
00:11<Dreamr3>ie, if the hardware itself fails you have more people yelling at you
00:11<@mikegrb>but often it is 20 minutes
00:11<Dreamr3>mikegrb: for reboots?
00:11<@mikegrb>if it's a box I can reboot from here, we are talking < 45 seconds
00:11<@mikegrb>they are just slow
00:12<@mikegrb>if we put in a ticket and then call them imediately, it's normaly around 10 minutes
00:12<Dreamr3>linode up 111 days
00:13<Dreamr3>can you not remote reboot your boxes?
00:13<@mikegrb>most of them we can
00:13<@mikegrb>but one of the dcs screwed up where the hosts from one of the RPCs are plugged in
00:14<@mikegrb>so there are about 5 hosts we can't
00:15<Dreamr3>so if i wanted 1gig of memory, could i get a discount? :-)
00:15<Dreamr3>just curious
00:15<@mikegrb>I'm pretty sure chris would be willing to give at least some discount for that much extra ram
00:15<@mikegrb>but dunno how large it would be
00:15<erikh># ifconfig | grep inet | awk -F: '{print $2}' | awk '{print $1}' | grep -v fe | grep -v 127
00:16<erikh>complete hack but handy when your boss needs an excel sheet quick
00:16<Dreamr3>mikegrb: the boxes still are mirrored SATA, right?
00:16<@mikegrb>newer is sata, older pata
00:16<@mikegrb>but yes, all mirored
00:16<erikh>parallel ata
00:16<warewolf>mikegrb: everything from me is not a flame :P PHP, Rails, and lighttpd just suck :)
00:17<erikh>I like rails
00:17<erikh>but it's not the end all
00:17<Dreamr3>ah, you mean boring old ata :
00:17[~]erikh is taking a permanent^Wextended vacation from writing mod_perl apps
00:17<Dreamr3>is PATA the new thing to make it sound cooler?
00:17<Dreamr3>warewolf: i agree with you PHP sucks
00:17<warewolf>erikh: cool, so you speak mod_perl too
00:18<warewolf>erikh: do you go the Mason route or do you write your own handlers from scratch?
00:18<erikh>one place I stayed on with just a few weeks had mason/etc setup very similarly to rails with some in-house libs
00:18<warewolf>erikh: contractor?
00:18<erikh>but the other places i've worked at were all custom jobs
00:18<erikh>warewolf: no, code was cool environment not so much
00:19<erikh>but most of the time I contract these days
00:19<warewolf>erikh: heh, know what I thought when I saw RequestTracker (RT) for the first time?
00:19<erikh>I've never looked at RT's guts
00:19<warewolf>erikh: "God damn. This app is written exactly the way I'd do it. Seriously."
00:20<warewolf>I was shocked
00:20<warewolf>it uses Mason the right way
00:20<erikh>I try to stay away from the web in my hobby time :)
00:20<warewolf>and doe sessions the right way
00:20<warewolf>yeah, I'm using RT at work now
00:20<erikh>I do dig on ruby though, even if rails isn't the end-all
00:20<warewolf>my SysAdmin plate is too full
00:20<warewolf>erikh: yeah I don't have anything against Ruby itself yet, just RoR.
00:20<erikh>it's a very slick and clean language
00:21<erikh>and has enough to remind me of perl to keep me comfortable.
00:21<warewolf>after years of writing/maintaining code you learn how NOT to write unmaintainable code
00:21<warewolf>(which is the problem with 90% of perl code, it's line noise without any comments)
00:22<erikh>it's easy to write maintainable perl
00:22<Dreamr3>erikh: i agree, ruby can be very readable
00:22<erikh>you just have to know how to program... something that a lot of perl programmers don't
00:22<Dreamr3>and almost explain itself
00:22<Dreamr3>erikh: i find it a joy
00:22<warewolf>erikh: go look at the PHPbb source
00:22<erikh>warewolf: I *have* done that.
00:22<warewolf>erikh: that shit scares me, almost zero comments.
00:22<erikh>what a wretched mess
00:22<erikh>warewolf: well it'd screw up their "plugin" system
00:23<erikh>hell, you can't even run patch against it
00:23<warewolf>I have half a mind to write a html::mason based threadded forums app that is the end-all and fucking secure to boot
00:23<warewolf>that'll happen once I finally snap
00:23<erikh>warewolf: for every one of you, there are 60 people doing it in RoR.
00:23[~]warewolf twitches
00:23[~]erikh is writing an AJAX'ed up IMAP client in RoR
00:24<erikh>it's something that I think would be useful
00:24<erikh>squirrel is nice but isnt' exactly gmail, either.
00:24[~]warewolf shrugs
00:24<erikh>I have a decent imap layer so far.
00:24<warewolf>I use squirrel in emergencies
00:24<warewolf>thunderbird otherwise
00:24<erikh>warewolf: I'm cloning the gui functionality of
00:25<erikh>it's my little pet and I've been working on it for almost a year now heh
00:25<warewolf>what's that, the mac mail client?
00:25[~]warewolf has no mac
00:25<erikh>it's a simple interface that would work well on teh web
00:25[~]warewolf prefers to build his PCs from scratch
00:25[~]warewolf shudders
00:25<erikh>oh, i'm not having that argument
00:25<warewolf>especially at the latent fuck-ups by apple on grease
00:25[~]erikh has plenty of PC's
00:28<@mikegrb> <-- for the win
00:48<warewolf>oh, you turned on the mac tivo republish stuff
00:56<erikh>mikegrb: hey there, I was wondering if I could get that 240 migration nwo that you guys have some available?/
01:08<@caker>erikh: you've got a ticket open, right?
01:08<@caker>nm, just found it
01:09<erikh>caker: yeah, I just replied to it
01:09<@caker>I'll set it up for you now
01:09<erikh>if you guys need to bill me extra for this month, let me know, I might need to wait until tuesday
01:09<@caker>you will need to migrate to Fremont (ip change)
01:09<erikh>that's fine
01:10<erikh>I will need to make some dns changes, but I can do that in minutes and from what you told me in the ticket I'll be able to switch conveniently
01:10<erikh>that is so nice. ;)
01:14<@caker>erikh: ok, info in your ticket
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01:23<warewolf>sweet, my openvpn works again.
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02:48[~]erikh knows hitting reload won't make it go faster, but tries anyways
03:03<warewolf>god fucking damn
03:03<warewolf>can the firewall team here be any more fuckign retarded?!
03:03<warewolf>my work, not here.
03:03<warewolf>they firewalled me out from retrieving firewall logs.
03:03<warewolf>fucking idiots
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03:30<erikh>caker, mikegrb: thanks again!
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05:50<afv-13>May 7 12:45:21 soultrap kernel: Buffer I/O error on device ubdb, logical block 137216
05:51<afv-13>that's not good
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06:08<afv-13>is caker or mikegrb here?
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08:00<linbot>New news from forums: Cant punch EJABBERD through FIREHOL, I'm lost! in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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09:38<afv-13>ratemylinode guy around?
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13:07[~]_GoldwiN_ I am from turkish
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13:16<_GoldwiN_>konuþ len
13:17<_GoldwiN_>adam çapýr
13:17<umit>ne konuþlam
13:17<_GoldwiN_>anlamýyo bu nlar
13:17<_GoldwiN_>konuþ iþte
13:17<_GoldwiN_>orda muhabbet var
13:18<umit>ban temizletiir
13:18<umit>ban temizletiir
13:18<kriby>while it is fun and enjoyable to watch the two of you chat about whatever topic it is you are chatting about.. you might be happier creating your own IRC channel, unless you have questions or comments about the linode service
13:18<_GoldwiN_>nasýl temizxletcem
13:19<umit>ne diyon lan
13:19<_GoldwiN_>o kadar çakmýyom
13:19<umit>mekan bul
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13:20<umit>lan bari
13:20<umit>sen türk çýk
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13:32<umit>#zafer came
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13:57<efudd>Originally the Convent of the Holy Infant Jesus, it is now one of Singapore's premier nightspots with bars, restaurants and shops. 1 km from the hotel.
14:01<linbot>New news from forums: Confirming a few things, along with a few service questions. in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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15:05<@caker>erikh: migration go OK?
15:35<erikh>caker: just fine! thanks
15:49<@caker>took awhile, I bet
15:49<erikh>caker: yeah, I had a lot on the disk and forgot to df -h it before I resized
15:50<@caker>erikh: noticeable performance improvement? Those hosts are quick
15:51<erikh>I honestly haven't checked, but I have ram nwo, which does have a noticeable improvement :)
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16:52<cc06>I am having some issues with netowrking on host35, I am not sure if it is something I am doing wrong or not though
16:52<cc06>I opened a support ticket
16:52<@caker>cc06: I updated your ticket a bit ago
16:53<cc06>I tried that, and still does not work
16:53<cc06>I will try that on the new profile
16:53<@caker>I can see your console -- so, run for me: ifconfig && route -n
16:54<cc06>doh..just shut it down
16:54<cc06>gimme a min
16:57<@caker>cc06: did you happen to signup for the xen beta at some point?
16:57<@caker>doesn't look like it
16:57<cc06>I had signed up, but never actually transferred over
16:58<@caker>ok, that's the problem then
16:58<@caker>one sec
16:59<cc06>I had a huge project come through for work, and never had a good chunk of time to migrate, I then figured it would be best to let someone who would really use it
16:59<cc06>thanks for your quick response :)
17:00<@caker>cc06: yeah, your node had its IP re-assigned to an IP for the fremont datacenter... I've reverted it back to your old IP, but you'll need to reboot
17:01<@caker>curious how you had your IP changed, but the migration was never configured ... did you speak to someone about un-doing the migration setup?
17:01<@caker>or perhaps, I goofed
17:01<@caker>ok, my fault then :)
17:01<cc06>no worries :)
17:02<cc06>I use my linode for experimenting with linux/personal hosting so its not biggie for me
17:02<cc06>Im just glad your support rocks as much as it does ;)
17:04<@caker>we're conditioned to skip heartbeats whever we get paged
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17:06<cc06>yay, it works!
17:06<cc06>thanks for everything :)
17:06<cc06>linode and the staff are awesome
17:07<cc06>have a great rest of your day
17:07<@caker>you too
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17:08<linbot>New news from forums: SMTP Precedence/Priority in Email/SMTP Related Forum <>
17:10<afv-13>yeah, mikegrb helped me out earlier, excellent support
17:12<@mikegrb>but sometimes the pager doesn't go off :<
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17:31<Dreamrr_3>can someone get in on the Xen stuff yet?
17:33<warewolf>you can (via a patch) use x509v3 certificates.
17:33<warewolf>in openssh.
17:52<encode>why is that wow-worthy?
17:53<warewolf>I can use the same SSL certificate for everything, and verify it's path back to my own certificate authority.
17:53<warewolf>I can reject clients connecting that aren't using a certificate signed by my CA
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18:14<encode>anyone here use munin / monit?
18:14<encode>theres a /. story about it
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18:20<@caker>we use munin
18:24<Dreamrr_3>anyone use qmail here?
18:24<Dreamrr_3>encode: : monit works well for what it dos
18:24<encode>caker: is it hard to configure?
18:24<Dreamrr_3>with monit you have to THINK of the rules you write...
18:24<Dreamrr_3>ou don't just apt-get install monit, done
18:25<kriby>well, geez.. who wants to have to think?
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18:30<@caker>encode: yes, very easy (AFAIK)
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18:36<Dreamrr_3>caker: can i get a Xen account yet?
18:36<encode>caker: ok thanks
18:36<encode>i might look into it then
18:40<Dreamrr_3>anyone using qmail?
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19:21<efudd>wheeeee.. waiting on flight to singapore
19:21<efudd>19 fucking hours
19:24<@caker>efudd: wow
19:24<@caker>Dreamrr_3: we're not taking any more xen beta accounts
19:24<Dreamrr_3>caker: any idea when it'll be "Ready" :-)
19:25<@caker>Dreamrr_3: no clue, I refuse to move to it just to be cool -- it's gotta actually work better than UML
19:25<Dreamrr_3>it doesn't? :-)
19:25<@caker>no -- stability and IO QoS issues
19:26<Dreamrr_3>no io_status patch? :-)
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19:29<efudd>decision to fly was made friday evening too
19:30<Dreamrr_3>caker: are the people on Xen enjoying the ride?
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19:31<TheFirst>when it's up yes, when it's down, no
19:36<Dreamrr_3>TheFirst: that bad?
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19:43<@caker>SPF records are just TXT records in the zone, correct?
19:44[~]caker is throwing around the idea of a managed DNS service add-on for Linode members
19:47<gpd>caker: correct on the spf - and great job on the idea :)
19:48<@caker>gpd: yeah, seems fairly straight forward
19:48<tierra>secondary and primary?
19:48<tierra>multiple domains?
19:48<@caker>tierra: yes, multiple even ... I think also allowing for slaves, too (linode nameservers as master, and also linode nameservers as slaves)
19:49<TheFirst>caker:you stole my idea! :P
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19:52<Dreamrr_3>caker: yes
19:53<Dreamrr_3>caker: you still using coldfusion for everything?
19:53<@caker>I've also considered some type of managed/shared SPAM filtering thing, but I've got no clue for the implementation
19:53<@caker>Dreamrr_3: for display stuff, yeah
19:54<Dreamrr_3>caker: will you still give the extra storage and stuff is someone pays for a year after they signup?
19:54<TheFirst>doesn't SA allow for remote connections? that'd seem easy to setup...or easy enough anyway
19:54<@caker>Dreamrr_3: yes
19:54<@caker>TheFirst: so what, people set our SA/MTA IP as their domain's MX?
19:55<Dreamrr_3>i'm thinking of setting up a dedicated e-mail server next
19:55<TheFirst>no...the MTA forwards to SA through spamc
19:55<Dreamrr_3>caker: i think simple mail setup is easy, but dealing with anything outside the lines will be harder
19:55<TheFirst>at least that's what i got out of a post i was reading on the topic on the qmr forums
19:56<@caker>TheFirst: the end user's MTA does that? ok, I get it
19:56<Dreamrr_3>i want to go with postfix, just wish it had sqlite support
19:56<TheFirst> the end user would setup qmail/exim/whatever to use the remote SA as another filter step
19:57<@caker>that's not as easy as someone pointing their MX somewhere else, but that makes sense to me
19:57<TheFirst>no but on your end there's not much setup
19:58<@caker>oh, see along with the spam service, I wouldn't mind doing backup (even primary+backup) MX service, too .. but again, I've got no idea how that would work real-world
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19:58<TheFirst>well backup would be easy to setup ... but you'd get nailed with spam
19:59[~]caker spend a month straight in 1997 or something setting up sendmail, haven't screwed with it since (besides binary updates)
19:59<TheFirst>qmail ... so easy to setup
19:59<TheFirst>and qmailrocks just rocks for documentation ;)
20:03<Dreamrr_3>caker: i'd suggest postfix :-)
20:03<TheFirst>Dreamrr_3: wanna take this outside? :P
20:03<Dreamrr_3>i evaled/bought the best books a while back and postfix was what I came to like
20:03<Dreamrr_3>i didn't consider sendmail
20:03<Dreamrr_3>qmail/exim/postfix i looked at
20:09<Dreamrr_3>mikegrb: gotcha
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20:54<@mikegrb>Dreamrr_3: but qmail is the only mailserver spammers use scanners specifically to find
20:55<Dreamrr_3>mikegrb: really now?
20:55<@mikegrb>they look for ips with qmail listening
20:56<@mikegrb>and then send messages to random to addresses with the target address as the from address
20:56<@mikegrb>and qmail politely sends the spam to the intended recipient
20:58<Dreamrr_3>yeah :(
20:58<erikh>as with all things qmail, it depends on how it's patched
20:59<@mikegrb>but then it isn't qmail
20:59<@mikegrb>according to the license it can only be called qmail if it has no patches applied
20:59<erikh>well, let's not have that argument Mr. Bernstein. :)
20:59<erikh>wait, sorry... Dr. Bernstein
20:59<@mikegrb>Bernstein couldn't beat Bush in an IQ competition
20:59[~]erikh likes qmail, but isn't going to say it's bulletproof, either
21:00<erikh>then again, I also like sendmail.
21:00<@mikegrb>it's like anything from Bernstein, stinkier then my excrement after eating fo0bar's chili
21:00<erikh>I love daemontools.
21:01<erikh>daemontools is really, really nice.
21:01<erikh>although I just read about something called runit which is similar, and I'm eager to try it.
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23:59<warewolf>caker- managed DNS is nice. Just do it correctly and do DNS updates via dynamic DNS.
---Logclosed Mon May 08 00:00:21 2006