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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-05-31

---Logopened Wed May 31 00:00:51 2006
00:25<taupehat>caker: ping
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00:30<Spads> <-- June 4!!!
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00:31<gpd> #debian: Total of 86 nicks ...
00:32<gpd> #ubuntu: Total of 723 nicks
00:33<taupehat>good riddance!
00:36<taupehat>seriously, #debian became useless for anyone having issues other than "OMG xorg sux my config is good omg!"
00:37<taupehat>so if all those folks left and went to #ubuntu, then those of us going "Hmm, this marvell raid controller craps out when I do operation X on it" can finally work on real work
00:37<gpd>this is true - i generally stick to #ubuntu-server - they seem to know what they are talking about on there
00:38<taupehat>I've suggested for about two years now that debian channels split to #debian-desktop and -server
00:38<taupehat>redirect #debian to -desktop with a MOTD suggesting where to get real work put in
00:38<gpd>where do the actual devs hang out?
00:38<taupehat>elsewhere entirely
00:39<taupehat>not freeload
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00:41<Spads>there used to be a secret debian channel
00:41<Spads>I was invited once in 98
00:41<Spads>and lost interest
00:41<Spads>it's like #debian-maint
00:41<Spads>or something like that
00:41<Spads>but it's all +s and everything
00:41<taupehat>anyhow, afk in case anyone (caker) is interested
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04:07<lhunath>ok, I know this has nothing to do with linode, but I can't reach / my VPS anymore from anywhere in europe, again, and the traceroute dies at somewhere. Anybody out here have an idea how I can keep my company's website from being down every so often?
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04:09<lhunath>if no option is available, I'll be forced to move to a more local host ;|
04:10<warewolf>lhunath: please open a support ticket
04:10<warewolf>caker needs fire to kick theplanet's ass with
04:10<warewolf>your support ticket will help
04:12<lhunath>right, would happily do so, but I can't reach the website ;o
04:12<lhunath>I will as soon as it's back, though
04:16<lhunath>theplanet's your ISP, I take it?
04:19<Ciaran>ThePlanet is one of the companies that Linode uses.
04:19<Ciaran> is hosted at ThePlanet, too.
04:19<lhunath>is there no alternative route to linode?
04:20<lhunath>hmm, no then
04:20<Ciaran>HostElectric is the other company that Linode uses.
04:20<Ciaran>And for the record, I'm in the UK and I can get to the site.
04:20<Ciaran>It was slow, though.
04:21<Ciaran>Faster now though.
04:21<Ciaran>Try again.
04:25<lhunath>you're right, it is back
04:25[~]lhunath goes to make a support ticket
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04:34[~]lhunath wishes he'd kept a traceroute of when linode was unavailable
04:34<Ciaran>Don't you have it in a buffer anywhere?
04:38<lhunath>nope, I'm clumsy like that - and forgot to make mtr output to console by default, instead of it's silly graphical thing
04:39<Ciaran>mtr's console output is annoying in a way, because it uses a separate screen. So when I press q to quit, the results vanish and I'm taken back to the prompt screen. :(
04:40<lhunath>not with me, though, the prompt just appears at the bottom of the screen, which gets shifted up one line
04:41<lhunath>you're using screen?
04:42<Ciaran>I have screen installed, but I don't invoke it specifically.
04:46<lhunath>use mtr -trc1
04:47<Ciaran>Oh, I know about that sort of output.
04:47<Ciaran>I just want to be able to run it indefinitely until I press q, yet still have the output on my screen.
04:47<Ciaran>Or at the very least, I want to be able to pause mtr.
04:48<Ciaran>(Ctrl-Z doesn't work, btw)
04:48<lhunath>was just typing the question =)
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06:15<warewolf>I am crazy
06:15<warewolf>I just spent $630 on camera junk
06:15<warewolf>after just recently spendint $800 on just the camera
06:16<lhunath>that is crazy.
06:17<@mikegrb>why not just get a better body to start out?
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07:45<Majbour>hello , just a quick question if i was to get a VPS how much extra would a cpanel licence cost ?
07:45<warewolf>Majbour: you would have to purchase that on your own
07:46<warewolf>Majbour: linode does VPS hosting, not cpanel/ensim hosting.
07:46<warewolf>Majbour: you would have to install cpanel/ensim or whatever control panel software you want by yourself
07:46<warewolf>Majbour: but nothing that linode does is going to prevent you from installing cpanel or whatever on your linode
07:47<Majbour>ah thank you
07:51<Majbour>anybody know the rough price of a cpanel licence ?
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08:01<sunny>hey guys, is being slow or something ?
08:05<Quizzer>dont think it is .. my linode seems to be working fine
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13:04<Griswald>is Caker available right now?
13:05<Griswald>or mike
13:14<gpd>Griswald: I think they are both at the RedHat Conference
13:17<afv-13>omg, i can't believe they're RH fanboys
13:18<sunny>afv-13: I hope you're joking :)
13:19<sunny>well, in the USA, if you plan to make money. or deal with people with money
13:19<sunny>RHEL is the way to go
13:19<afv-13>that must suck
13:19<Ciaran>sunny: I hope you're joking :)
13:19<sunny>you can't even find an SLES installation if you tried
13:19<sunny>Ciaran: I'm not
13:20<Ciaran>So why is it the only way to go for that? I mean, other than support contracts and the fact that it has "Enterprise" in the name so it appeals to marketing-type people.
13:21<Griswald>I didn't even know about the conference :)
13:21<sunny>its the marketing that makes *all* the difference in the world
13:22[~]sunny is a management major with a concentration in marketing, heh
13:22<afv-13>there is absolutely NO RH marketing here
13:22<afv-13>but plenty of SLES
13:23<sunny>that might have to do with the fact that your from South Africa ... which either A) as a european company SuSe could easilier serve, or B) as a fairly established company, Novell already serves very well
13:23<Griswald>I'm a pie lover.
13:23<Griswald>I win.
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13:24<afv-13>sunny: but that doesn't explain why there is more RH than SLES here
13:24<sunny>well you never said there was more RH than SLES there, you only said there was plenty of SLES, heh
13:25<afv-13>i said plenty of marketing
13:25<sunny>so there is plenty of RH, but plenty of SLES marketing ?
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13:26<sunny>well I assume thats because RH is a fairly global brand, but I've never studied the EMEA market, and so I really wouldn't know
13:27<orange>i remember there being Xen beta tests. did anything come of that?
13:27<sunny>orange: there is a channel for it #linode-xenbeta, ors omething
13:27<sunny>the xen stuff crashed for me and I got reverted back to UML
13:27<orange>oh. thanks
13:29<orange>for a backup).
13:30<orange>ahha. left parenthesis erases the line on the cgi client. i've retyped the same thing 3 times now before i realized that.
13:30<orange>wow. disk i/o is super slow today. I'm doing a tar|gzip on 2gb of data and vmstat/top reports everything as mostly idle. I'm guessing UML doesn't report iowait statistics reliably.
13:31<gpd>orange: try dstat -f
13:43<gpd>and watch cat /proc/io_status
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14:47<@mikegrb>afv-13: we are transitioning to debian
14:47<@caker>rh fanboys, eh? -- we're distro agnostic
14:48<@caker>anyhow, there are lots of relevant discussions here regardless of RH's specific offerings -- virtualization, clustering/gfs, etc
14:48<orange>I'm moving my gentoo box over to ubuntu right now. only 4gb of disk space, it makes sense to use a binary distro instead of source based one.
14:49<Griswald>admins :)
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14:53<orange>gpd, installing dstat and systat/iostat right now. thanks
14:53<orange>wait. dstat wants python. i'll stick with sysstat package
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15:13<@mikegrb>mmm cake
15:13<ximbiot>i'm hungry. too bad there's no cake in the fridge.
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16:40<Dreamr3>who here does greylisting?
16:40[~]Spads raises his hand
16:40<Dreamr3>Spads: how often and at what age do you flush records that never got greylisted?
16:40<Spads>I don't think I understand
16:40<Spads>"never got greylisted"?
16:41<Dreamr3>hahaha, obviously you didn't write your own implimentation :-)
16:41<Spads>do you mean records that never got *whitelisted*?
16:42<Dreamr3>depends on how you view it :-)
16:42<Spads>35 days
16:42<Spads>arbitrary figure over a month
16:42<Dreamr3>my oldest record is 13 days
16:42<Dreamr3>but some of this stuff is obviously spam
16:43<Dreamr3>you wait 35 days to delete things that never passed?
16:43<Spads>I use uucp
16:43<Dreamr3>most MTAs don't keep mail past 7 days... wouldn't that be more than safe?
16:43<Spads>there are two LRUs I have
16:44<Spads>items stay on the greylist for only 2 days
16:44<Spads>whitelist entries expire after 35 days without being used
16:44<Spads>you could up it to 5 days
16:45<Dreamr3>i just wrote this the other day :-) now i have to decide how to maintain it :-)
16:46<Dreamr3>377 lines of code... and that counts the web admin app :-)
16:46<Dreamr3>and postfix policy server :-)
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17:44<Spads>web admin app, eh
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19:36<Internat>any debian fanatics here using proftpd-mysql?
19:37<Spads>ftp plus sql
19:38<Spads>talk about two of the most misapplied pieces of technology, combined into one horrifying mass
19:38<Internat>its good for virtual hosting :)
19:39<Dreamr3>mikegrb: my e-mail server is running custom greylisting software i wrote now :-)
19:39<Spads>Internat: sounds like overengineering to me.
19:50<Internat>well, i do virtual hosting, and i dont want people to have system accounts, or any form of account, so if i make it that all the information is stored in the mysql database, then i use the same information for proftpd/courier for authentication, my website uses it for the admin tools
19:50<Internat>everything runs via the mysql db, so it actually makes good sense
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19:55<sunny>wow, I've been a Linoder for 1 month short of 3 years now
19:56<Internat>this is my 2nd year on my own, and i shared with a guy for a year as well
19:56<sunny>well, its also my last day today ... in a few hours :(
19:56<Internat>awww how come?
19:56<sunny>3 years ago I knew crap about virtualization
19:56<sunny>today I have colocated servers with Xen
19:57<sunny>you could say I 'outgrew' linode
19:58<sunny>but don't get me wrong
19:58<sunny>Linode is an *amazing* bang-for-your-buck
19:59<sunny>I've recommended it to lots of people
20:07<sunny>my first host was host4, the troublesome host (at least back in the day)
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21:26<Internat>say what
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22:24<taupehat>that was one heck of a paste in #f-s
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22:53<sunny>this is going to suck
22:53<sunny>I need a *few* minutes after 00:00 .... but I think I may get charged for the month :/
22:54[~]sunny is removing files off his linode
22:55<gpd>depends what timezone they consider midnight... if it is GMT you are already screwed
22:55<TheFirst>or so i'd guess
22:55<sunny>I'm in EST and assume things are done in EST
22:55<sunny>caker and mikegrb seem to be sleeping already
22:55<gpd>you est ppl... all the same ;)
22:56<npmr>no, it's not EST
22:56<TheFirst>i'm not in est ;)
22:56<sunny>CST ?
22:56<TheFirst>i just realize that est people are all idiotically egocentric and think time revolves around them
22:56<sunny>no diff
22:56<sunny>I'm in EDT
22:56[~]npmr touches his nose and points to gpd
22:56<sunny>well I know caker is in EDT or CST/CDT
22:57<gpd>as discussed caker and mikegrb are both at Redhat Conference...
22:57<gpd>a ticket might help if you beg :)
22:57<sunny>well yeah ... buuut, I assume billing is done auto-magic
22:57<npmr>there are two minutes and change left in the linode billing cycle
22:57<TheFirst>which would assume it's done on the server's tz
22:58<TheFirst>est/edt was originally said
22:58<gpd>sunny: how many ppl on board with your new system?
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23:01[~]gpd awaits announcement of Dapper Drake Release
23:01<sunny>gpd: just my friends and consulting clients
23:01<sunny>I don't mass resell
23:01<sunny>*far* from it
23:01<sunny>hell I'll still be telling people to use Linode for a very long time, heh
23:01<npmr>time's up, welcome to june
23:01<gpd>any LPM | LISH or similar action?
23:01[~]caker *sniff*
23:01<@caker>sunny: :(
23:01<@caker>sunny: thanks for the memmories
23:01<sunny>no no no no
23:01<sunny>THANK YOU
23:01<sunny>don't even get me started
23:02<sunny>omg, when I first heard about Linode
23:02<sunny>it was the answer to my dreams
23:02<sunny>it was colocation, without the excess fees
23:02<warewolf>sunny- you and I are in the same boat.
23:02<warewolf>"I need colo"
23:03<warewolf>"colo is ass expensive"
23:03<sunny>well now I have colo ... and I ran UML servers, and now Xen servers
23:03<warewolf>*caker walks in wearing a suit*
23:03<sunny>I *LOVE* virtualization
23:03<warewolf>WELCOME TO LINODE!
23:03<sunny>I worked for a datacenter during the summer, learned all about them, and where to get the good deals and such
23:04<@caker>Xen/Virtualization is *everywhere* at this summit
23:04<sunny>it was everywhere during LWE/Boston
23:04<sunny>it was fantastic
23:04<@caker>We met a Linode customer at this summit, pretty cool
23:05<@caker>tottally random
23:05<warewolf>caker- did she ask you to sign her breast?
23:05<sunny>nice :)
23:05[~]warewolf runs
23:06<gpd>caker: anything of note so far?
23:08<@caker>gpd: I found all the gfs / clustering / "storage uninterrupted" sessions very interesting
23:08<@caker>the gfs guy was excellent (Steve Whitehouse, I believe)
23:09<gpd> <-- /me looks
23:09<@caker>overall I'm pretty impressed with all the RH folk I've met / seen in action
23:09<@caker>there were a few boring sessions, but it's not easy to make some things exciting ...
23:10<@caker>not that much swag, but not that kinda conference really
23:10<eFUDd>You want a FAS6000 to back that.
23:10<npmr>if you put a named pipe in a gfs filesystem, is the i/o replicated to all of the cluster nodes?
23:10<eFUDd>a 6070 specifically.
23:11<eFUDd>mmm 1008 spindles and 504TB
23:15<gpd>so where is all the money being made with Linux atm?
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23:21<sunny>gpd: booth babes
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23:21<@caker>gpd: for a company like Red Hat? From what I've gathered, it's in their partner relationships, co-marketing, certifications, and ultimately RHEL licensing, which includes an impressive list of big clientele -- whole countries (not just ours) stock exchange systems, other giant ones I can't recall ATM
23:21<JasonF>caker: the redhat software people are brilliant.
23:21<gpd>how about any niche markets - like virtualization - any up and coming areas?
23:21<JasonF>I just don't like the distro, at all.
23:21<JasonF>Not enough text-based config utils.
23:21<gpd>[I suppose if there were you wouldn't be telling us about it!]
23:21<@caker>gpd: like I mentioned, they're hard-on for Xen/virtualization
23:21<gpd>and does Ubuntu feature in conversation - esp. with recent Sun announcement
23:21<sunny>JasonF: its interesting you mentioned that ... I think redhat wants the mandated GUI action
23:21<JasonF>yeah, so do I
23:21<JasonF>which is horrible for servers
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23:21<sunny>JasonF: if redhat can render the text versions of their stuff useless, and force people to use the X versions ... are people really going to attach a KVM to every machine ? buy Hummingbird's Exceed for every workstation ? run cygwin/ ? or have more RHEL/Fedora machines to do the remote X administration ?
23:22<@caker>RHEL is all about the server environment, not any GUI required stuff that I saw
23:23<sunny>KVM-over-IP is pretty $$, Exceed is $$, Cygwin/X doesn't integrate well ... and that leaves for more RHEL/Fedora machines, and maybe licenses
23:23<@caker>there are GUI tools, but they showed their console equiv
23:23<sunny>caker: I can think of specific tools in RHEL4 in which the CLI version doesn't work at all
23:23<@caker>(this was thed cluster management stuffs)
23:23[~]caker shrugs
23:23<@caker>in other news: I found my wristwatch :)
23:23<@caker>been missing for weeks
23:23<gpd>in your travel bag...
23:24<sunny>like the network configuration tool, they even give you a nice warning about it possibly being broken, heh
23:24<sunny>caker: lol, where was it ?
23:24<@caker>no, I ran home tonight
23:24<@caker>sunny: stuffed down in the bowls of my couch
23:24<gpd>sunny: don't you think that GUI will eventually become de facto - us text dinosaurs will eventually die off...
23:26[~]gpd reads ticker tape response
23:26<sunny>gpd: no, at least SUSE and Mandriva use a universal backend that allows for menu driven and X driven front-ends to work perfectly
23:34|-|taupehat [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:34|-|taupehat [] has joined #linode
23:36<@caker>taupehat: pong
23:36<taupehat>I really don't remember what it was about
23:37<@caker>my plan worked, then
23:37<taupehat>diabolical plan*
23:37[~]caker crashes... nite
23:38<taupehat>oh, wait
23:38<taupehat>now I remember
23:41<sunny>nite caker :)
23:42<gpd> <-- seems to have been released, now with added females
23:42|-|FireSlash [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:42<sunny>maybe canonical will turn a profit, cough cough
23:44<gpd>well they have a few more years left to burn MS' money at ~$1M/yr
23:44<gpd>I'm not sure that the desktop is where the money will be found though
23:44<gpd>and ppl seem not to be enthused about ubuntu-server (so far)
23:52[~]encode likes the look of the server version
23:52<encode>if the picture on is anything to go by
23:53<encode>which package do i install to get her?
23:53<gpd>easy tiger
23:53<encode>thats a package? i dont remember seeing that name
23:54|-|afv-13 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:54<gpd>gpd@beasty:~$ apt-cache search easy tiger
23:54<gpd>gpsbabel - GPS file conversion plus transfer to/from GPS units
23:55<gpd>gpd@beasty:~$ apt-cache search girl
23:55<gpd>psad - The Port Scan Attack Detector
23:55<gpd>see what you've started!
23:58<npmr>[inkblot@dorothy:~]$ acs psad | grep -i girl
23:58<npmr> * various backdoor programs (e.g. EvilFTP, GirlFriend, SubSeven)
23:58<npmr>[inkblot@dorothy:~]$ acs gpsbabel | pcregrep -i '(easy|tiger)'
---Logclosed Thu Jun 01 00:00:36 2006