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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-11-06

---Logopened Mon Nov 06 00:00:07 2006
00:01<@linbot>New news from forums: http to https with authentication using .htaccess file in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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00:34<encode>so, where is this 'Tom' guy?
00:35<encode>or isnt he an irc bot like the rest of the linode staff? :P
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01:01<warewolf>no, he appears to be one of caker's oldschool friends
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01:10<m4st3r>Hello, everyone!
01:10<m4st3r>I used to have a linode, but I'm too poor now. Would anybody like to pay for one for me?
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01:23<@caker>wow -- Gimpshop
01:24<m4st3r>caker, can i have free linode?
01:24<m4st3r>i miss it.
01:24<@caker>m4st3r: sorry, no freebies today, I require cash upfront for my services ... ahem
01:25<m4st3r>hehe, yeah, i know.
01:25<m4st3r>maybe soon when i get a job
01:26<npmr>oh boy! blake barrie!
01:27<m4st3r>How did you know?
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03:50<@linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host16 in System and Network Status <>
04:30<NigelJ>hmmm, i assume it is possible to say, get a Linode 100 (when next avaliable) and upgrade to a 200 sometime without much trouble?
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05:42<warewolf>pretty much, yes
05:42<warewolf>you can either stay on the same host and purchase more RAM and disk space, or you can really upgrade to a linode 200 by changing hosts
05:43<warewolf>changing hosts will cause you more downtime, as they have to copy your disk image from one host to another
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07:11<@tasaro>encode: Good morning from the new Linode irc bot
07:11<SupaZubon>NEW BOT?
07:11[~]SpaceHobo squints at tasaro
07:11<SpaceHobo>yew ain't no BOT
07:12[~]SpaceHobo shivs tasaro
07:12<SpaceHobo>See? Blood.
07:21<encode>tasaro: ahh very nice
07:22<encode>tasaro: congrats on your new job
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08:28<gpd>t ls
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08:54<gpd>how would you list the newest files in a directory tree?
08:54<SpaceHobo>ls -lt | head
08:54<SpaceHobo>-t sorts by time, newest to oldest
08:54<SpaceHobo>-rt will do oldest to newest
08:54<gpd>recursive... ?
08:55<SpaceHobo>I dunno
08:55<SpaceHobo>try -Rt
08:55<SpaceHobo>it may work
08:55<SpaceHobo>or may not
08:55<gpd>nope :(
08:55<SpaceHobo>well you'll have to do an ls -lR and pipe it through sort then
08:55<SpaceHobo>but that'll throw away path info
08:55<erikh>if you don't want to use the -l option, be sure to use the -1 option
08:55<SpaceHobo>erikh: ls goes to -1 by default when it's in a pipeline
08:55<SpaceHobo>GNU ls anyway
08:55<erikh>oh yeah, heh.
08:57<erikh>gpd: if you need recursion, you could probably write a very simple perl/awk script to accomplish what you need
08:57<gpd>erikh: isn't this something people would do daily?
08:57<gpd>i know you can do `find . -ctime foo`
08:58<erikh>yeah, but that won't give you ordering.
08:58<erikh>the convoluted sort pipeline you'll have to write makes scripting it very attractive.
08:58<erikh>considering at least with perl, you have instant access to stat/lstat/etc
08:59<gpd>i can't believe i am the first person to encounter this is all -- /me ach's
08:59<kvandivo>i suspect you can rest comfortably in the knowledge that you aren't the first person to encounter much of anything wrt unix
08:59<erikh>heh, it's like, 3-10 lines in perl
09:00<erikh>depending on how much you value newlines
09:00<erikh>just use File::Find, store the filenames as the keys and stat info as values in a hash, sort keys by values, print keys.
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09:37<erikh>uh, I think the public is going to get acquainted with the problems with DRM very quickly:
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09:51<npmr>is that really DRM (policy incompatibility) or is it a technical incompatibility?
09:54<erikh>the article notes that there is a microsoft-initiated standards body around the format that's being deprecated
09:55<erikh>so, I would assume that it's little more than an intentional compatibility
09:55<erikh>hell, the standard is called "plays for sure"
09:55<erikh>keep in mind that the vast majority of non-apple online music vendors use it
09:56<npmr>technical incompatibility can be just as intentional as policy incompatibility
09:56<erikh>and pretty much everything but the iPod plays it
09:56<npmr>the fact that it's intentional says very little
09:56<erikh>npmr: ah, I misunderstood your statement
09:56<npmr>you can't stick a betamax tape into a vhs vcr and make it play
09:56<npmr>but no one would deign to call that DRM
09:57<erikh>sure, but we're talking about bits here
09:57<erikh>it's not like your mp3 file has a cartridge size.
09:57<SpaceHobo>consider that an iPod does not play oggs
09:57<SpaceHobo>that is not DRM
09:57<npmr>you can't stick oggs on most mp3 players and make it work
09:57<npmr>right on
09:57<SpaceHobo>not supporting, say, wma
09:57<SpaceHobo>is not DRM
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09:58<npmr>so is it policy or technology that makes it not work?
09:58<erikh>that's true, but Apple didn't invent ogg, promote ogg as a standards track for tons of companies, and then abandon it in their new player
09:58<erikh>I have no idea
09:58<erikh>the effect is the same
09:58<npmr>yes, but the reasons really are different
09:59<npmr>sony did promote betamax for years, and today's sony vcrs won't play them
09:59<kvandivo>they still make VCRs?
09:59<npmr>don't they?
09:59<SpaceHobo>their cameras play them
10:00<erikh>you can also get adapters.
10:01<erikh>slapping a codec on a piece of hardware is hardly the same as designing a multifunction piece of machinery
10:02<npmr>and building a device that is incapable of playing a particular media format is hardly the same as building a device that has the capability but simply won't let you
10:03<npmr>doen't matter what combination of hardware and software makes up the device, or whether it's a physical media format or a digital data media format
10:04<npmr>there's still a very real distinction between policy and technical incompatibility, and it's only really DRM if it's a policy
10:05<npmr>so, back to zune vs. msn music...
10:06<npmr>does anyone know whether this is policy or technical incompatibility?
10:06<SpaceHobo>erikh: adapters?
10:07<erikh>SpaceHobo: when I was a kid you could get them
10:07<erikh>dunno about now
10:07<SpaceHobo>are you sure you're talking about the same thing?
10:07<SpaceHobo>I know that you can get camcorder->VHS adapters
10:07<SpaceHobo>because both use helical scan tape
10:07<erikh>maybe that's what I'm thinking of
10:07<SpaceHobo>but the only "adapter" I know of is basically a full betamax VCR that you plug into some other array
10:14<gpd>for root, dirs, files in os.walk(sys.argv[1]):
10:14<gpd> for name in files:
10:14<gpd> print os.lstat(join(root,name))[8], join(root, name)
10:15<gpd>^^ pythonesque way to do ls -Rlt (import sys, os, join from os.path)
10:15<erikh>does ls -Rlt order the files properly?
10:16<gpd>no ls -Rlt spits out each directory separately
10:16<erikh>yeah, kind of what I suspected.
10:16<erikh> although that just burps out the mtime and name of the file, right?
10:16<erikh>it doesn't do any ordering itself
10:16<gpd>no - but | sort -n = joy
10:16[~]erikh doesn't use python much
10:17<gpd>just learning it myself -- perl is so 1999 ;)
10:18<erikh>I use ruby mostly these days, but perl is a very handy tool to have in the box
10:18<SpaceHobo>that looks like a good place to use a list comprehension
10:18<erikh>I can't get past the whitespace thing in python
10:18<gpd>how did you find perl->ruby transition?
10:18<SpaceHobo>erikh: Yeah, it's kind of a testament to Python that it survived the whitespace thing
10:19<gpd>SpaceHobo: you are probably right - i'm not too hot on those yet
10:19<erikh>eh, 'perldoc perlvar' will give you a list of ruby's global variables
10:19<erikh>SpaceHobo: yeah, it seems like a solid language
10:19<SpaceHobo>ruby doesn't really offer enough over it to warrant a switch in either direction, though
10:20<SpaceHobo>although python's library support is far more rich right now
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10:38<gpd>so postgrey is working great for me -- about 100x fewer spams
10:38<gpd>the last remaining are coming from hosts with IP only - no hostname
10:39<gpd>is it safe to discard these automatically?
10:40<gpd>eg. Received: from [] ([])
10:40[~]mikegrb does
10:40<gpd>is there a postfix option - or do you use other methods?
10:43<gpd>smtpd_helo_restrictions = reject_invalid_hostname
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11:35<erikh>I think I'm in love
11:36<kvandivo>and that, friends, is the epitome of geek love
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13:11<ascott>hello. are any linode technicians about?
13:12<ascott>I lost my account info and it's tied to an email I can't access at the moment.
13:12<ascott>Can anyone help me out? Or change the email address on my account?
13:16<NigelJ>hmmm, extending on my question 8 or so hours ago.... (about upgrading from say LN100 to LN200), it sounds more convientiant to hold 2 Linode packages doesn't it (instead of doing an upgrade, buy a second one, transfer everything over then close the old one, or does it not work like that
13:17<@caker>NigelJ: upgrading is a snap -- one push of a button
13:17<NigelJ>caker, right, but i was told of other problems like changing IPs etc
13:18<ascott>caker: can you change the email address listed with my account to my school email address?
13:18<@caker>NigelJ: IPs only change if you're moving from one datacewnter to the next
13:18<@caker>NigelJ: otherwise, it literally is: shutdown, press the migrate button, press boot
13:18<NigelJ>so i can tell the system that upon upgrade to keep my old IP (i'm a prospective new customer) ;)
13:19<@caker>We'll give you the choice when you ask for the upgrade
13:19<NigelJ>ahh great, that sounds good. p.s. the panel screenshots are too small
13:20<@caker>ok :)
13:20<NigelJ>looks like i'm waiting till end of month
13:20<ascott>Hello. Can anyone read me? (Is this chat cgi not submitting to channel?)
13:20<@caker>NigelJ: one moment
13:21<NigelJ>no waiting list i take it?
13:21<@caker>ascott: yeah, one moment
13:21<ascott>oh, okay. :) thanks.
13:22<@linbot>caker: Linode100 - 1, Linode150 - 1, Linode200 - 4, Linode300 - 20, Linode400 - 20
13:22<@caker>NigelJ: go for it
13:22<kvandivo>do i get a package deal if i order 18 of the Linode400's ?
13:22<NigelJ>caker, i'll have to pickup a CC today then
13:23<NigelJ>i take it you guys will accept these Visa Giftcards etc?
13:23<@caker>NigelJ: should work just fine
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13:41<tierra>caker: dns generation shows a correct zone file from what I can tell, but I'm still not able to retrieve the TXT record
13:41<tierra>Mastering the iPod
13:41<tierra>doh, ignore that second message
13:41<@caker>tierra: checkzone report back ok?
13:42<tierra>I hadn't checked that
13:42<@caker>which domain is this?
13:43<tierra> would be one
13:43<tierra>note that 'dig txt' returns no answer
13:43<tierra>and compare with 'dig txt'
13:45<tierra>is named-checkzone a seperate package from bind?
13:45<@caker>it's from the sourceball of bind, but I've noticed debian/ubuntu don't include it in their packaged .. package.
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13:47<@caker>tierra: what's that TXT line look like from the zone file that works?
13:47<@caker>named doesn't seem to be bitching about your zone
13:47<tierra> TXT "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
13:47<tierra>exactly the same as when I use 'generate' on the dns manager
13:48<tierra>actually, though, I do have my TXT record before any of my vhosts/subdomains and after my MX records
13:49<tierra>I don't know how that might affect anything, but it is the one difference I can point out
13:51<manithree>How do I tell if my new Linode UML is in TX or CA?
13:51<@caker>manithree: traceroute, or whois on the IP
13:51<@caker>manithree: or tell me which host :)
13:51<manithree>caker: host35
13:51<@caker>tierra: I'm stumped. Bind isn't complaining about your zone.. it all looks fine
13:51<@caker>manithree: Dallas, TX
13:52<manithree>Can I get moved to CA? I need an off-site monitor on the west coast.
13:52<@caker>manithree: probably -- submit a ticket and we'll get it taken care of
14:06<@caker>tierra: really stumped...
14:06<@caker>==> /var/log/named.debug <==
14:07<@caker>I can log that the query is making it to the nameserver
14:07<@caker>tierra: check this out:
14:08<@caker>dig txt
14:09<@caker>someone please stop playing "Eye of the Tiger" in my head, kthx
14:09<@caker>all day today ..
14:11<kvandivo>start singing to yourself, "I'm a barbie girl.... in a barbie world.."
14:11<@caker>yes I swear -- it's the truth, and I ... DId it all for youuuu hooo
14:13<gpd>^^ possibly the 'best remix ever'
14:14<gpd>wait to the end for when The Breeders - Cannonball comes in.. !
14:14<@caker>oh no
14:15<gpd>oh yeah baby
14:17<@caker> <-- where trent reznor got all his inspiration
14:18<gpd>wow - that is painful
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14:57<tierra>caker: must be something to do with * subdomain entry then I think
14:58<tierra>err, no, I think I see now
14:59<tierra>I'm guessing you can attach TXT records to subdomain entries (after the subdomain)
15:00<tierra>In my zone file on, I have the TXT SPF record before any subdomain entries
15:00<tierra>so it shows for
15:01<tierra>'dig txt' won't show the SPF record (as it's attached to, not
15:01<@caker>the only difference is ordering
15:01<@caker>that doesn't compute to me
15:01<tierra>so I think the order in which the TXT records are in the zone file matter
15:01<@caker>let's try it, I guess... I'll move TXT before the A section
15:02<@caker>tierra: regen
15:02<tierra>if this is the case, it's going to kindof suck for you as you may have to come up with some way of having options for it at some point ;)
15:03<tierra>if I regen, will it be on, or is that done on the hour?
15:03<@caker>from what I read about bind9, it no longer allows promoting of subdomain TXT records in the more-top level domain -- those belong in the subdomain zone
15:03<@caker>it's actually set to every 2 minutes :)
15:03<@caker>(for now)
15:03<@caker>I'll kick bind anyway
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15:04<@caker>well, I'll be...
15:04<tierra>ok, it's working now
15:04<tierra>dig txt is anyway
15:05<tierra>dig txt isn't, but it's probably just cached somewhere
15:06<@caker>yeah, the zone serial only changes every hour
15:06<@caker>so caching is likely
15:07<tierra>well, I guess we both learned something new today ;)
15:07<@caker>indeed -- thansk for helpin with bugs
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15:42<makaze>I opened a ticket to see if my linode could be moved to a theplanet machine, is this possible?
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15:43<heidi>makaze: only when one is available at that data center
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17:14<Nigel[CPI]>darn, someone nabbed the Linode 100 ;)
17:25<tierra>they come and go pretty quick
17:25<@linbot>tierra: Linode100 - 0, Linode150 - 1, Linode200 - 4, Linode300 - 20, Linode400 - 20
17:28<tierra>considering you're connected via irc, I'm guessing you know this already
17:31<Nigel[CPI]>yeah, i checked just before i connected
17:33<Nigel[CPI]>looks like i'm gonna have to keep checking it
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17:44<Nigel[CPI]>it went in 4 hours... fast ;)
17:45<Battousai>150s are high-quality virtual servers
17:47<@linbot>caker: Linode100 - 1, Linode150 - 1, Linode200 - 4, Linode300 - 20, Linode400 - 20
17:56<encode>400s are the way to go
17:56<encode>you're not nerdy enough if you get anything less
17:57[~]tierra only has a 200 :(
17:57<encode>i only have a 300
17:58<encode>but i have a 200 as well
17:58<encode>so that makes up for it
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18:13<Nigel[CPI]>ohhh, 100 avail?
18:17<Nigel[CPI]>caker: you there?
18:18<Nigel[CPI]>one issue i've noticed
18:18<Nigel[CPI]>i don't know of an international dial-in number for my bank
18:18<@caker>not on the card?
18:18<Nigel[CPI]>it's a local 0800
18:19<@caker>Don't worry about it, not always required
18:20<Nigel[CPI]>*hopefully* the card holder name is correct, there is one on the card, and a different one of the registration site, so yeah
18:21<@caker>Nigel[CPI]: all set -- thanks :)
18:21<Nigel[CPI]>woo! talk about service!
18:25<Nigel[CPI]>btw, the talk about service was meant as a good way
18:27<@caker>heh -- thanks
18:28<Nigel[CPI]>I love the Job Queue
18:29<@caker> <-- feel free to give that a try (beta)
18:29<Nigel[CPI]>caker: i'm going to
18:29<encode>and check out
18:30<@caker>yeah ^- that too
18:30<encode>great tool
18:30<@caker>oh, and:
18:30<Nigel[CPI]>caker: actually it was the rdns tool i was gonna try
18:32<Nigel[CPI]>caker: i'll try the dns thing when i get the actual domain to use with my linode
18:36<Nigel[CPI]>caker: so looking at the members area, i assume kernel upgrades must be done by the panel/lish
19:00<@caker>Nigel[CPI]: correct
19:11<Nigel[CPI]>well off home
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21:32<warewolf>people whoring RML for me
21:32<warewolf>thanks encode :)
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21:37[~]NigelJ quickly changes the mobile number i provided
21:37<NigelJ>out of habbit, i put my new number in, instead of my old
21:38<NigelJ>i put my old in, instead of my new
21:42<encode>warewolf: np - its a great tool
21:45<NigelJ>hmmm... so '2.6.18-linode25' is the latest provided, but why can't i select that instead of always latest?
22:24|-|NigelJ changed nick to Nigel
22:26<@caker>Nigel: why can't you? you can
22:26<@caker>it's just that next time I update 2.6 (and make Latest 2.6 point to it), you'd be stuck on the kernel you selected
22:27<Nigel>caker, drop down menu only has -linode24 not -linode25 as a not always latest
22:27<@caker>the drop down changes?
22:27<Nigel>or are you doing 2.6.x's differently to 2.4.x's
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22:27<@caker>2.6 and 2.4 each have their own -linode build number series
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22:49<taupehat>Studies have shown that even after careful washing, food and produce that has been contaminated by DHMO remains tainted by DHMO.
22:49<taupehat>err, wrong chan
22:54<Nigel>taupehat, interested though
22:54<taupehat>Nigel: k
22:54<Nigel>i assume your talking about Dihydromonooxide ;)
22:54<taupehat>hydric acid
22:55<Nigel>same difference ;)
22:55<taupehat>fortunately, some good citizen made a safety data sheet for the stuff
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22:59<gpd>ok - newbie svn user alert... I just did svn update on a directory with changed files
22:59<gpd>now i have >>>>>>> .r11
23:00<gpd>etc... :(
23:00<@caker>gpd: the files which require merges need to be edited manually, I believe
23:01<gpd>there is no - undo last merge then ... arse
23:01<gpd>cvs prompts you before attempting merge
23:02<gpd>hold the pony... file.mine file.r11 file.r4 :)
23:02<gpd>all is forgiven
23:03<erikh>mmmm, merging
23:03<erikh>how I do NOT miss merging
23:04<erikh>although, tools that replace diff like fhist make code reviews and merging very slick
23:04<erikh>not sure how well svn would integrate with them, however.
23:07<gpd>fhist looks interesting --- vimdiff is also essentiall (vim -d f1 f2)
23:10<@caker># apt-get install apache2
23:10<@caker>Reading package lists... Done
23:10<@caker>Building dependency tree... Done
23:10<@caker>apache2 is already the newest version.
23:10<@caker># apt-get install apache2-
23:10<@caker>Reading package lists... Done
23:10<@caker>Building dependency tree... Done
23:10<@caker>The following packages will be REMOVED:
23:10<@caker> apache2
23:11<gpd>apache2- ?
23:12<gpd>same for me on edgy
23:12<@caker>pretty cool .. can add/remove packages in one apt-get call
23:12<@caker>(at the same time)
23:12<gpd>it would seem so - just tried for another package
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23:19<gpd>pop quiz: python variable or method for 'what os is this?'
23:20<gpd>too slow:
23:30<gpd>interestingly free service -- have you signed up?
23:30<@caker>just did, but don't know my pin :)
23:37<Nigel>caker, got some werid timeout issues with lish on host12, when connected to screen
23:38<Nigel>sadly, my typing in the window i though my still active killed the last error message
---Logclosed Tue Nov 07 00:00:02 2006