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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-11-13

---Logopened Mon Nov 13 00:00:21 2006
00:10|-|Eman [] has joined #linode
00:26<linbot>New news from forums: Which distribution? How to decide? in General Discussion <>
00:38<fo0bar>simple: use Finnix instead of anything else
00:38<taupehat>your saying that does not surprise me a whole lot =P
00:38[~]fo0bar is working on the finishing touches of Finnix 89.0
00:40<encode>fo0bar: have you used iscsi at all?
00:40<fo0bar>nope, but I've heard good things about it
00:40<SpaceHob1>iscsi is scsi for iMacs
00:40<encode>SpaceHob1: heh
00:46<Eman>tonights two hours of work...
00:49<taupehat>Eman: what the FUCK is the deal with the link in your /quit message?
00:51<Eman>grrr... its not meant to show up here
00:51<taupehat>yah, dude, why is it meant to show up anywhere?
00:53<Eman>very long story
00:54<@mikegrb>taupehat: watch your language
00:55<taupehat>mikegrb: sorry. I was rather upset by the link.
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01:04<taupehat>that was much better
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02:19<jayyers>im wanting to set up an pop3 and smtp server with TLS what would be the best way to go as far as easy config and fast server?
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02:38<linbot>New news from forums: Sticky: How to setup your server with Debian (small) in Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials <>
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03:27<robbert>jayyers: what distro are you running?
03:27<jayyers>i see a good tutorial on help.ubuntu so im going to try that
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03:28<jayyers>using postfix and dovecot
03:28<robbert>another good one to try is it's written for debian, but there shouldn't be any differences between the two
03:29<robbert>dovecot is a very cool little imap/pop server, very easy to configure
03:30<jayyers>ive actualy never even herd of it but the dovecot module is already set up in webmin for later config if i need it in the future so i thought i would give it a try
03:31<robbert>dovecot has a caching feature, this allows it to return message listings for huge folder a lot faster than a traditional imap/pop server
03:33<jayyers>as well as having a linode i also have a vps at which has plesk which is realy cool and it was as simple as adding a domain and a mail user but when i tried configuring it for TLS it slowed down realy bad so i thought i would see if i can set up from scratch on my linode and see if i have better luck
03:37<robbert>i've never heard of this vps provider before, do you know if they use uml?
03:38<jayyers>no clue
03:38<jayyers>the nice thing is that its only 29bucks and it has 25gb and 1000gb/mo transfer
03:39<robbert>yeah the disk space is nice
03:39<jayyers>but the backbone is not as fast as linode
03:39<jayyers>but what could be much faster for the price
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03:41<jayyers>in my tutorial it says to edit /etc/posftix/smtpd.conf but its not their any idea why?
03:41<robbert>that file is not created by default, what's the url of the tutorial you are using?
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03:43<robbert>what the tutorial tells you to put at the end of the file is the only thing in that file on my server
03:43<robbert>i'd just make a new file and stick that in there
03:43<jayyers>ok cool
03:44<jayyers>thanks for the help man i really appreciate it
03:49<robbert>are you good for now?, i'm off to bed, need at least an hour or two before work
03:54<jayyers>thanks man
03:55<robbert>cya later
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05:00<jayyers>im using ubuntu and am setting up an email server, i am able to do telnet localhost 25 when im ssh'ed into my linode but i cant reach it if i do telnet 25 from my computer is their a firewall setup that im not aware of?
05:01<brc>netstat -ln
05:01<brc>check if your SMTP is listining on or or your internet ip
05:04<jayyers>is that right?
05:05<brc>yes, that is correct
05:05<brc>so it is a firewall problem..
05:05<brc>try to flush the rules and tyr to connect again
05:06<brc>you dont have any problems, i can connect to your host:
05:06<brc>Connected to
05:06<brc>Escape character is '^]'.
05:06<brc>220 ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu)
05:06<brc>221 Bye
05:08<jayyers>hmm i cant
05:09<brc>Probrably your local machine is firewalled..
05:09<brc>that may even be your isp
05:11<jayyers>lemme see if it works on my other computer
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05:16<jayyers_>u used port 25?
05:20<jayyers_>wtf this is retarded, i was able to connect to my other server yesterday and now i cant even do that
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05:21<jayyers_>go bellsouth! :(
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05:24<jayyers>how could u block port 25 outgoing? this is crazy
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05:33<warewolf>no, it's not crazy, it's .. oh he's gone already.
05:34<warewolf>blocking outgoing port 25 from residential DSL is a good way of preventing zombie machines from being spam relays.
05:36<jayyers>it jus worked yesterday..grr
05:37<Ciaran>As far as I knew, outgoing port 25 from bellsouth hasn't worked for a long time.
05:37<Ciaran>So that's weird that it worked for you. :/
05:38<brc>trhey dont block output 25 here on Brazil
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05:38<brc>how would you be able to use an external SMTP if they do block it ?
05:39<warewolf>they tell you to use their own mail relay servers.
05:39<warewolf>that way they can log it.
05:39<Ciaran>Or use a non-port-25 SMTP server, but obviously there won't be too many of them around. ;p
05:39<warewolf>or in the case of, run spamassassin on it and silently drop it if they think it's spam, even if it's not.
05:39[~]warewolf fumes at
05:40<Ciaran>warewolf: They do that? :(
05:40<brc>good for them but i would not be happy with this. i trust my own smtp, it is fast and reliable. what if they have an SMTP that is as slow as hotmail? My mail would take hours to be delivered
05:40<Ciaran>warewolf: Wow, crappy. :(
05:40<warewolf>brc- tough. You can always take your money elsewhere. They're not going to budge on it.
05:40<Ciaran>brc: That's the way it's been for ages, with most ISPs now.
05:41<Ciaran>Well, certainly the big ones.
05:41<warewolf>if you want to pay gobs and gobs of money for the same quality of service but unfiltered port 25, you can get a "business class" cable modem or dsl service plan.
05:41<brc>.BR isps still do not do that. that is probrably the reason all .BR residencial IPs are on spams blacklists :)
05:41<Ciaran>Fortunately, my ISP doesn't seem to do that.
05:41<warewolf>brc- Aha! The light goes on above your head!
05:42<jayyers>has bellsouth done this for a while?
05:43<Ciaran>It's been at least over two years now.
05:43<Ciaran>Probably more.
05:44<warewolf>Ciaran: my SMTP server on my linode is both port 25 and port 465 8-)
05:44<warewolf>Ciaran: nobody blocks 465
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05:45<jayyers>bellsouths own smtp server is on 25 it should work
05:45<brc>we dont have the option to buy a "business class" to use at home over here.
05:45<Ciaran>warewolf: Yeah, nobodyseems to block the equivalent SSL port, heh.
05:45<Ciaran>^nobody seems
05:46<Ciaran>But yeah, there are generally three things that can happen when you use outbound port 25.
05:46<Ciaran>First is that your ISP doesn't filter it at all and lets you three.
05:47<Ciaran>Second is that your ISP blocks it outright except to their own mail server.
05:47<Ciaran>Third is that it silently redirects you to their mail server, which can cause problems with mail services that check what the mail server says is its hostname.
05:48<Ciaran>I suppose that a *really* sneaky SMTP server could perform a reverse DNS lookup on the target IP and pretend to impersonate that, but I've never seen any that do that and it also would be inaccurate for vhosts.
05:51<brc>what do you mean by impersonate? Don't think it is possible
05:54<Ciaran>Well, when you connect to an SMTP server, it starts off the conversation by telling you what it thinks its hostname is, and most servers will also tell you the name and version of the server running, though that's not required.
05:55<Ciaran>If a server knows that it's being used as a transparent proxy, it would be perfectly possible for it to do a reverse DNS lookup on the destination IP and to give that hostname instead.
05:56<Ciaran>The actual hostname would still be shown on the Received header when it passes the message on, of course.
05:56<Ciaran>But this is just impersonating to the sender of the mail.
06:02<warewolf>Ciaran: telnet to port 25, I think you'll get a kick out of my smtp greeting. :)
06:02<jayyers>where is the file to change the listening port for postfix
06:02<warewolf>jayyers: BZZT don't do that.
06:02<Ciaran>*does an EHLO for kicks*
06:02<jayyers>y not
06:03<Ciaran>warewolf: So, hmm. 'is' is your hostname then? ;p
06:03<warewolf>Ciaran: Newp!
06:03<warewolf> /exec -o hostname
06:03<jayyers>warewolf why not
06:04<warewolf>jayyers: I'll explain it to you, but it's obvious that you need to learn a bit more about how SMTP works
06:04<Ciaran>warewolf: I guess you just changed the source, then? Or made your own server, I guess, but that seems like a lot of work, so I'd guess just a source code recompile.
06:04<jayyers>well i mean how do i add it to listen on another port also
06:05<warewolf>if you want to receive mail from others, you must not change the listening port of postfix away from port 25.
06:05<warewolf>port 25 is an internet-wide RFC standard.
06:05<Ciaran>warewolf: He wants to add a new port.
06:05<warewolf>Ciaran: I know this, and he's going about it the wrong way.
06:06<Ciaran>warewolf: How so? What do you think he's trying to do?
06:06<Ciaran>I mean, it seemed pretty clear in his next reply.
06:06<Ciaran>"well i mean how do i add it to listen on another port also"
06:07<warewolf>jayyers: you don't _need_ to connect to _your_ mail server on _your_ linode from home.
06:07<Ciaran>Well, true, he doesn't.
06:08<Ciaran>But it's nice for your ISP mail server not to show up on Received headers sometimes. Of course, your IP still would, but, ;p.
06:09<warewolf>The only reason I connect to my mail server on port 465 (ssl) is because I have SPF records that say all mail from my domain names *ABSOLUTELY MUST* come from my mail server, and absolutely nowhere else. Not even
06:09<warewolf>and that's the only legitimite reason I can think of, and even that is configurable.
06:09<jayyers>is there a way to do this or not
06:10<warewolf>jayyers: yes, there is, but you're going about it the wrong way and not listening :)
06:10<Ciaran>I'm not using SPF yet, mostly because by DNS provider doesn't let me add TXT records.
06:10<warewolf>jayyers: either point whatever client you have at home at your ISP's mail relay, or configure postfix to use the SSL smtp port 465 aswell.
06:11<warewolf>Ciaran: oh, and my MTA is sendmail btw. No recompiling necessary to do what I did.
06:11<jayyers>and i config it to use 465 how
06:11<Ciaran>jayyers: Google for "postfix ssl 465".
06:12<warewolf>Ciaran: /exec -o grep Feed /etc/mail/
06:12<warewolf>O SmtpGreetingMessage=is what you speak? Feed me!
06:13<Ciaran>warewolf: Nice.
06:13<warewolf>jayyers: you'll have to generate SSL certificates for your postfix server too. Ask google about "openssl certificate request" and "openssl certificate authority"
06:13<jayyers>i have done all that
06:23<jayyers>cool for some reason one of my settings didnt take last time
06:26<Ciaran>Cool! Glad it works now. :)
06:26<jayyers>well..... i can connect with telnet but for some reason when i use my email client it imediatly says cant connect
06:37<jayyers>i skrewed somthing up
06:37<jayyers>maybe i should try this when i havent been up for 24hrs lol
06:37<jayyers>thats prolly the problem
06:39<jayyers>plus its been like 3 years since ive used linux that i cant remeber how to do anything
06:42<Ciaran>On a completely unrelated note, it appears that Sun has open-sourced Java under the GPL. I knew they were planning to open-source it but I figured it'd be under their own restrictive license, so it's good to see it's actually the GPL.
06:43<warewolf>linbot: slashdot?
06:43<Ciaran>Definitely. While I think that Java isn't that great, something like this can only be good for Sun.
06:43<warewolf>linbot: slashdot
06:43<linbot>warewolf: Sun Open Sources Java Under GPL <> || Google Envisions Free Cell Phones For All <> || Top 10 List of Worldwide Internet Censors <> || More A's, More Pay (4 more messages)
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09:26<erikh>wow, RFC3229 is /sexy/
09:28<Ciaran>Hmm. Interesting ideas.
09:29<Ciaran>It would require the server to keep track of old versions, though. I haven't read the full RFC; I expect it talks about that but I can see a few problems there.
09:30<Ciaran>Oh wait, I see.
09:30<Ciaran>This is just for proxies.
09:30<erikh>well, most of the "large" sites with relatively unchanging content split the pieces of a page into smaller parts and reverse-proxy them
09:30<erikh>in fact, that's 99% of what akamai does
09:30<Ciaran>*nods* Gotcha.
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13:03<Nigel_>hmmm, are there network/host problems on host12?
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13:12<Nigel_>caker, HE stuffing up again?
13:13<@caker>seems find here
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13:14<Nigel_>hmmm, maybe my ISP has a broken link or something
13:16<Nigel_>caker, sorry for the false alert
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14:12<timber>hey guys
14:13<timber>I'm a little concerned about my CPU Charts
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14:13<timber>I'm averaging 12-13% use
14:16<timber>but when it peaks, it's near 55%
14:17<timber>anybody listening?
14:18<npmr>is that a problem?
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14:18<timber>I think it may be, because I expect the use of the server to increase ten fold in the next week
14:20<timber>so, is that % based off the total CPU? or the allocated CPU to my account?
14:20<npmr>is the percentage usage of one whole cpu
14:21<npmr>when it says 55%, you're using 55% of one of your host's two cpu's time
14:21<npmr>pardon, cpus'
14:21<timber>where does it cap off?
14:21<npmr>you can go all the way to %100
14:21<timber>or something like 60% so that the other users have a minimum of 5-10%
14:22<npmr>nope, 100%
14:22<npmr>but you'll only ever see then when the other linodes on your host are idle
14:23<npmr>there's two processors, so if two linodes are needing cpu time, the host schedules one on each cpu
14:23<npmr>so three linodes are needing cpu time, one will get 66% of one, one will get 66% of the other, and one will get the rest and just bounce from cpu to cpu
14:24<timber>I see
14:24<npmr>remember that the linodes are just userland processes on the host
14:24<npmr>they're scheduled just like any other userland process that needs cpu time
14:24<npmr>so you can get 100% of one of your host's cpus
14:25<npmr>but only when there's insufficient competition for resources
14:25<npmr>i.e. idle nodes
14:25<npmr>i average just under 25% of one cpu
14:25<npmr>my peaks are also at about 55%
14:26<timber>I see
14:26<timber>so an increase of users on my site will probably push the average up, but not the peaks as much
14:26<npmr>as your server usage rises, it will probably be more i/o-bound than cpu-bound, anyway
14:27<timber>I'm hoping you're right
14:27<npmr>it seems reasonable to assume that, i guess
14:27<npmr>are you a new customer?
14:27<timber>I can do something about bumping the bandwidth allowance, but not the CPU
14:27<timber>new as of 6 mo ago
14:27<npmr>not bandwidth, i/o
14:27<npmr>disk i/o
14:27<npmr>to and from your block devices
14:27<timber>but the server is setup and the site was just released
14:28<npmr>are you aware of the i/o limiter?
14:28<timber>I guess not
14:28<npmr>cat /proc/io_status
14:29<timber>io_count=17320747 io_rate=21 io_tokens=399991 token_refill=512 token_max=400000
14:29<npmr>io_count is the number of i/o operations performed since boot
14:29<npmr>io_rate is the number of i/o operations performed in the last second
14:30<npmr>io_tokens is the number of tokens available, each i/o operation costs one token
14:30<npmr>token_refill is the number of tokens that are granted to your linode each second
14:31<npmr>token_max is the cap on io_tokens
14:31<timber>I see
14:31<timber>thanks for the explination
14:31<npmr>when your linode tries to do an i/o operation and io_tokens <= 0, the operation sleeps for one second before completing
14:32<npmr>so, in short, if you have a sustained i/o rate greater than your token refill, you will eventualy run out of tokens
14:33<npmr>at that point, trying to do anything on your linode will feel a lot like trying to swim through molasses
14:33<timber>I see
14:33<npmr>as long as you can keep your i/o rate under control, you shouldn't have any problems
14:34<npmr>databases and page swapping are the usual suspects when you've got a high rate
14:35<npmr>although i've personally seen it with bittorrent and heavy mail ingress
14:36<npmr>by heavy, i mean on the order of several dozen all delivered within a couple of seconds
14:37<Rifkin>if you have a Linode100, with CTR of 40:1, does that mean on average you shouldn't be using more than 1/40 = 2.5% of a host cpu?
14:38<npmr>Rifkin, only if everyone is constantly using cpu time
14:38<npmr>which just doesn't happen
14:39<Rifkin>but if I were using more than say 10% cpu constantly, that's using mroe than my fair share of resources, right?
14:40<npmr>it's using more than has been guaranteed, yes
14:40<npmr>but in order for it to be "unfair", wouldn't your usage have to be crowding someone else out?
14:40<npmr>that doesn't happen
14:41<Rifkin>It would crowd out everyone who is sharing your host, wouldn't it?
14:42<npmr>if only a couple of linodes need cpu time, the available time is split evenly between them
14:42<npmr>it's basically unheard of for all 40 linodes on a linode 100 host to need cpu time simultaneously
14:42<Rifkin>so, it's no problem if I start running a high constant cpu%? I won't get nasty email from caker or get booted off the service?
14:42<iggy>Rifkin: if your usage gets out of hand, they usually tell you
14:43<npmr>but if it did happen, the host would schedule them all equally
14:44<Rifkin>would you say, as a general rule of thumb, a linode100 shouldn't use more than 2.5% cpu on average?
14:45<iggy>we all try to be nice to our neighbors
14:46<iggy>the fact that you are even considering others means you probably aren't going to upset anyone
14:46<Rifkin>I've been watching my cpu usage go up as my site becomes more popular, and I wonder if I need to upgrade to a 150
14:47<iggy>honestly, the biggest limit with linodes is still disk io
14:47<iggy>so if you are managing to keep that in check well enough, you are probably good
14:47<npmr>no one really ever has any problems with cpu time
14:47<Rifkin>I've never seen my io tokens get anywhere near exhausted
14:47<npmr>except when it's 100 i/o wait, which is really an i/o problem, and not a cpu time problem
14:48<Rifkin>ok I'll stop worrying about it then, thanks
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16:00<@mikegrb>Spads_: remember dr dino? he's in jail
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18:00<erikh>caker, mikegrb: is ICMP being filtered on any of your borders right now?
18:00<@caker>erikh: not that I know of
18:01<erikh>ok, thanks
18:02<erikh>just trying ot figure out which end of this connection is having issues
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18:11<bernie_>irc nubee here
18:11<troy>hi bernie
18:11<kvandivo>hi troy
18:11<kvandivo>Ho Ho and a bottle of rum
18:12<bernie_>I have a question: what's the best way to approach a question of whether or not a given host is having problems?
18:12<kvandivo>i think you need to schedule a pre-meeting meeting
18:12<kvandivo>to discuss what you want to discuss in the meeting where you ask the actual question
18:12<bernie_>Of course; but I 'll need an agenda of course, Yes?
18:12<bernie_>Is host21 have contention issues?
18:13<bernie_>There. I said it. Someone had to.
18:13<kvandivo>is your io_status ok? does the webpage say the load is high?
18:13<@caker>bernie on host21? The host looks fine, but you're 130M into swap, which can cause issues
18:14<bernie_>Aha. Will a reboot help that?
18:14<@caker>No, it'll just happen again
18:14<@caker>you need to configure your apps to use less memory
18:14<@caker>apache, mysql, spam processing apps are the most likely causes
18:14<bernie_>my toks look ok'
18:15<bernie_>I'm running apache, dovecot and squirrelmail, and djbdns
18:15<@caker>ok .. look into tweaking apache's MaxClients directive
18:16<bernie_>Is it my imagination, or has this issue only arisen lately, like just this weekend?
18:16<@caker>no idea
18:16<bernie_>Ok. not sure whether you a way to gauge that.
18:17<bernie_>I'll at apache maxclients. Got to get supper my wife sez. How do I log off this, my first irc session?
18:17<@caker> /quit
18:17<bernie_>danke sir
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18:20<linbot>New news from forums: Reboot: host56 (2006-11-13) in Xen Public Beta <>
18:21<tierra>anyone here know the trick to getting CSS opacity working in IE7 (not PNG transparency)?
18:22<tierra>I've tried both "filter: alpha(opacity=60);" and "filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(opacity=60);", which are both supposed to work (and have on one site that I've seen), but I can't seem to get them working in my design
18:24<tierra>in the same CSS blocks I have it working correctly with the CSS3 opacity tag for Firefox, Opera, and Safari, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the CSS is fine
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18:57<Nigel[CPI]>tierra: check ieblog
18:57<Nigel[CPI]>tierra: i remember them posting a few things re: css lately
19:05<tierra>it turned out to be caused by use of an ID selector vs a type selector
19:06<tierra>flipped it around, and the filters worked
19:07<tierra>I have a bad habit of using ID selectors where I should be using class and type selectors
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21:03<linbot>New news from forums: MediaWiki Problems--Can't Edit in Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP (LAMP) Forum <>
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21:50<taupehat>oi, what happened to host56?
21:50<@caker>it wasn't pretty
21:50<@caker>xend died, and any/all xm commands seg faulted
21:50<@caker>rebooting fixed it
21:51<taupehat>any notion as to what led to the downfall?
21:51<@caker>yeah, I'll pull in the most recent updates for the next time
21:51<@caker>none, no bad messages, nothing in dmesg, etc
21:51<@caker>just a Xen bug of some kind
21:51<taupehat>seems likely there will be a next time pretty soon]
21:51<@caker>I'm thinking :)
21:51<taupehat>someone held their mouth wrong probably
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21:53<Eman>... i thought you left :p
21:54<taupehat>Eman: did you fix that nasty quitmessage, or do I get to send the bikers over to your house?
21:54<Eman>its gone
21:55<JasonF_>oops, old irssi .config file :P
21:55<JasonF_>bye Eman ;) ;)
21:55<JasonF_>hugs and kisses
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21:55[~]taupehat got barked at by mikegrb for cussing Eman out last night
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23:38<warewolf>taupehat: ya know I wrote an irssi anti-cuss script that would beep at me every time I tried to curse in #linode
23:39<warewolf>taupehat: actually it replaced curse words with farscape curse words. It was great.
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 14 00:00:01 2006