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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-12-21

---Logopened Thu Dec 21 00:00:27 2006
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01:57[~]warewolf2 resizes his linode filesystem
01:57<warewolf2>that was rather quick.
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02:04<warewolf2>linbot, rr
02:04|-|warewolf2 kicked [#linode] linbot [BANG!]
02:04[~]linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
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05:51<guinea-pig>linbot: rr
05:51<@linbot>guinea-pig: *click*
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07:54[~]caker waits for the west coast to wake up
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11:26<f8>can linode compete?
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11:56<heidi>that could be interpreted as very crass
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12:13<f8>I guess
12:13<f8>if you can't take a joke it could be
12:14[~]f8 loves his linode though
12:40<heidi>i was just saying some people might have taken it bad
12:40<heidi>i think that website is funny myself
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13:30<@linbot>New news from forums: Question Regarding the Next Few Months in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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13:58<@caker>ok flame wars, please -- but isnt Debian 4.0 supposed to be out by now?
13:58<@caker>s/ok/ok, no/
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14:11<@caker>July 24th, 2006
14:11<@caker>The Debian project confirms December 2006 as the date for the next release of its distribution which will be named Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 alias 'etch'.
14:11[~]caker digs more
14:11<npmr>the 4th
14:11<npmr>and yes, it's delayed
14:11<@caker>Jan 4th?
14:11<npmr>december 4th
14:11<npmr>and it's delayed
14:11<npmr>etch is now frozen
14:11<npmr>as of a couple of days ago
14:12<Redgore>problems within the dev crews
14:12<@caker>aye -- so ... "when it's done" ?
14:12<npmr>Redgore, that was a rumor
14:12<@caker>well, if its frozen, I guess it's done so .. :)
14:12<npmr>caker, yep
14:12<@caker>good stuff
14:12<npmr>no, it's not done
14:12<npmr>it's frozen
14:12<@caker>gotcha -- bug fixes now (I'm hip)
14:13<Redgore>in teh end debian will always be late
14:14<npmr>and in the end, it won't matter
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14:55<ajmitch>debian always delays based on the release-critical bug count - more bugs were found by various checks, and some things like the installer were delayed
14:55<ajmitch>took awhile to get the kernel in place, etc
14:56<@caker>I'm surprised they went with 2.6.17, rather than the 2.6.16 stable series (which is up to or so)
14:57<ajmitch>ubuntu (edgy) has 2.6.17
14:58[~]ajmitch works on both debian & ubuntu :)
14:59<@caker>ajmitch: any particular component?
14:59<@caker>I guess a /whois tells all :)
15:00<ajmitch>mono stuff, some selinux stuff in ubuntu, network auth stuff
15:00<ajmitch>general universe fixing for ubuntu :)
15:01<ajmitch>went to the recent ubuntu developers summit in mountain view, which was fun :)
15:06<Xel>caker, my linode still occasionally pisses me off.
15:06<@caker>Xel: in what way?
15:07<Xel>I get some pretty severe system lag (I thought it may have been network lag a while ago, but it appears to be system lag)
15:07<@caker>Xel: which host (cat /proc/cpuinfo)?
15:07<Xel>Just running apt-get update can lag like crazy
15:07<@caker>Xel: cat /proc/swaps /proc/io_tokens ?
15:07<Xel>I have an open ticket, but mike says that it has looked fine for the past few days
15:08<Xel>you mean io_status :P
15:08<@caker>Xel: ok -- hold tight -- we can move you to another host in the next few days, if you'd like
15:08<Xel>My tokens are always full or near full during this issue
15:08<Xel>And I am running very few processes - no swap being used
15:08<@caker>HE just received 3 new servers of ours to rack
15:08<Xel>caker, I'd like to try that when it becomes availible.
15:08<ajmitch>excellent :)
15:08<Xel>Thanks :)
15:08<ajmitch>caker: how's xen shaping up now?
15:09<@caker>I just engaged my "bug HE until they rack-em" procedures
15:09<@caker>ajmitch: it's still buggy; too buggy for production, IMO
15:09[~]ajmitch also helps with xen in ubuntu :)
15:09<@caker>I haven't tried 3.0.4, so -- next crash I'll update our xen beta box
15:09<Xel>caker, I'd think that HE would be calling you sir at this point, with how much money you spend with them
15:09<ajmitch>what are you using as a dom0?
15:10<@caker>ajmitch: hmm .. debian or ubuntu, but all kernels compiled from source
15:10<ajmitch>based on upstream hg branch for kernel patches?
15:10<@caker>xenbits, yes
15:11[~]ajmitch knows zul is pulling a lot of stuff from fedora for the kernel
15:11<@caker>-unstable usually, since the -testing and/or release trees aren't updated nearly as often as our beta box crashes :)
15:12<Xel>caker, is linode a fulltime job for you and mike?
15:12<Xel>or is this a hobby that generates a lot of money?
15:12[~]ajmitch is hoping to use xen on a new server for work next year
15:12<@caker>Xel: and tasaro, yes
15:12<@caker>full time++
15:12<Xel>That's just awsome, heh heh
15:13<Xel>caker, you are probably one of the most well respect VPS vendors out there, so you must be doing something right
15:13<@caker>thanks -- I hope so
15:13<Xel>BTW, I await whatever announcement is coming re: space :p
15:13<@caker>yeah, don't expect anything too mindblowing, but it'll be something
15:13<ajmitch>a good reputation was one of the reasons we moved off zettai (as it's shutting down)
15:14<Xel>caker, I'm not expecing to go from 3gb to 30gb
15:14<@caker>huh .. never heard of them
15:14<Xel>caker, that's probably why they are shutting down :P
15:14<ajmitch>zettai specialised in zope/plone hosting
15:14<@caker>shared dealio?
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15:15<ajmitch>at least the newer account we had was
15:15<ajmitch>150MB RAM, etc
15:15<ajmitch>zope needs lots of RAM :)
15:15<@caker>Do you think there's a market for us providing virtual applications (or at a minimum, pre-configured installs)?
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15:15<@caker>sorry, virtual appliances
15:15<ajmitch>if you have the time to manage them, sure
15:15<@caker>yeah ..
15:15<Xel>caker, possibly.
15:15<Xel>Honestly, I wouldn't recommend my company to use it.
15:16<Xel>Just because I like to keep appliances in-house
15:16<Xel>I don't want that sort of traffic going over the net
15:16<ajmitch>some people will use them
15:16<Xel>Some people might. But security folks are wary of housing major components off-site.
15:16<Xel>And then there is the potential for performance issues.
15:17<ajmitch>depends what you mean by appliance :)
15:17<Xel>Since most corporate LAN's are at 100mbit, many at 1gbit.
15:17<Xel>ajmitch, I think of things such as RADIUS appliances and stuff when I hear "appliance"
15:17<ajmitch>a preconfigured LAMP stack will appeal to many
15:17<ajmitch>yeah, that's a bit different, i suspect
15:17<Xel>ajmitch, that's different.
15:18<ajmitch>I think caker is suggesting something along the lines of vmware's preconfigured VMs
15:18<Xel>When I hear appliance, I hear "this expensive device that runs windows/linux at the core, but has major enhancements to ui/functionality"
15:18<Xel>ajmitch, yea, some of those are pretty high-end.
15:18<ajmitch>but you can have something simple
15:18<Xel>I work at a place with... something like 400k + email boxes.
15:19[~]ajmitch works at a place with 5 employees
15:19<Xel>Can you imagine a virtual appliance on a shared linode trying to handle that?
15:19<ajmitch>we just have 2 dedicated servers
15:19<Xel>Many appliances are also firewall, IDS, and IPS products
15:19<Xel>Which I would always recommend be in-house or directly with the upstream providor.
15:19<Xel>Well, firewalls have to be.
15:21<ajmitch>it depends on the target market for linode
15:21<ajmitch>if caker wants customers who can just roll out a server & just copy files on & expect it to go :)
15:22<Xel>Well they could go halfway
15:23<Xel>When you sign up for a new account, you select what you want "The latest Fedora, the latest Debian, etc"
15:23<Xel>And it does an install with defaults.
15:23<Xel>Though linode really isn't for people who need a lot of technical hand-holding
15:23<ajmitch>though you can already install the various distros with a couple of clicks
15:24<ajmitch>they just don't have the common applications
15:24<Xel>The only ones that I could see people housing offsite are email/messenging.
15:24<Xel>A lot of the appliances on the vmware site assume that your vmware server is in-house
15:25<Xel>Like linux firewall stuff, and anti-spam gateways that sit between the actual mail server and the firewall.
15:25<Xel>Not a whole lot of them would effectively and efficiently work if housed outside the local infrastucture, IMHO
15:26<Xel>Ok, AFK. Meeting time
15:27<ajmitch>agreed, but do you think it would be useful for linode to supply a preconfigured & tuned apache & mysql, for example?
15:27<@caker>apt-get install apache2 mysql-server php <-- Linode's pre-configured LAMP disro :)
15:27<npmr>some assembly required
15:28<f8>there's always some assembly
15:28<f8>unless it's managed
15:28<f8>and that's not what Linode users want
15:28<ajmitch>caker: that's quite challengin :)
15:29<f8>aptitude makes life so easy
15:30<npmr>also, knowing stuff
15:30<slashtom>any known issues with dist-upgrading a linode virtual server to Etch?
15:30<@caker>slashtom: a few have done it thus far without comlications, to my knowledge
15:31<slashtom>good good
15:32[~]ajmitch is going to have great fun dist-upgrading the servers at work
15:32<slashtom>every 18 months from now on, i hear
15:33<ajmitch>a noble goal
15:33<@caker>The only thing I could see useful in us providing a LAMP distro would be that I could dial down MaxClients and friends, mysql's mem usage, etc, and thereby avoid the most common reasons why people swap thrash
15:33<slashtom>18 software developer's months == 24 irl months :)
15:34[~]ajmitch needs to make sure that the zope instances don't cause thrashing on his setup
15:34<npmr>18 software developer's months == about 100 internet years
15:35<@caker>!calc 1 month in internet years
15:35<@linbot>caker: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
15:36<npmr>how old does a meme on the internet have to be to be considered some flavor of retro?
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15:40<iyqo>anyone with a site hosted on linode: would you mind posting the url so that i can see how well it works (preferably a php/mysql site)
15:40<@caker> <-- on a Linode (a rather large one, but still...) :)
15:41<encode>caker: i thought that was written in cold fusion
15:42<@caker>yeah, it is... php/cf .. same diff
15:43<@caker>well, the forums is php
15:43<encode>ahh yeah
15:46<kvandivo> is a php site on a 100
15:46<kvandivo> is a wordpress site (php/mysql) on the same
15:51<iyqo>thanks a lot:)
16:00<@caker>huh .. Google got cheap on me this year ... thousands on adWords advertising and all I got was a PC/CYA holiday card
16:01<@caker>last year I got a neat stuff-for-laptop/portables goodie bag (usb reading light, a little mouse, usb thumb drive, etc)
16:02<@caker>"Happy Holidays" in 40 different languages
16:04<@tasaro>yeah, I heard they were a little low on cash this year ;)
16:04<@caker>!quote GOOG
16:04<@linbot>caker: The current price of GOOG is 456.20, as of 4:00pm EST. A change of -6.70 from the last business day.
16:04<@caker>at least gimmie a share or something! :)
16:04<encode>caker: the good christmas presents went to people from companies they bought out
16:05<@tasaro>I bet the 40 translators received more than a holiday card
16:05<@caker>They googled for the translations
16:07<@linbot>New news from forums: Upgrade from Linode X to Linode Y in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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16:34<Xel>I have upgraded with dist-upgrade to Etch
16:35<Xel>No problems whatsoever
16:35<Xel>Just make sure to be on the latest 2.6.x
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17:11<slashtom>i just upgraded my laptop from Sarge to Etch - problems with SSH and Grub
17:11<slashtom>is there a serial console to access the virtual server should ssh fail?
17:12<@caker>slashtom: yes --
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17:41<Xel>caker, you know what would be cool and sufficiently geeky for you to take on as a project?
17:42<Xel>(You have to say "What?" so that I know I'm not talking to a detached terminal)
17:42<@caker>who's there?
17:42<ajmitch>hopefully santa
17:42<Xel>An interface for people to be able to set up firewall rules (ACL rules) on the router for their individual linode-assigned IP
17:43<Xel>So they could move that one step above their machinre
17:43<@caker>we already filter everything in/out that doesn't belong to the Linode's IP/MAC (layer 2 and 3) for each Linode...
17:44<Xel>caker, I more meant something like "Well, I've been getting attacked on port 22 by IP x.x.x.x, so I want to block that at the router-level"
17:44<@caker>well, I think we allow broadcasts through, still, only because I never locked it down for dhcp requests
17:44<Xel>Use it as firewall functionality
17:45<Xel>Moving it a step above the linode means less traffic to the linode, and less processor used for evaluating packets
17:45<Xel>And you are geeky enough to figure out a way to write something to do this
17:45<Xel>And people would get a kick out of it
17:45<Xel>Plus it'd give you extra selling points (not that you even need them)
17:45<@caker>that might not make it very high on the to-do compared to other things on the list, but .. I'll note it anyway :)
17:45<Xel>"Linode can provide a more secure environment for your server than a dedicated machine because we allow you to set firewall rules for your IP!"
17:46<@caker>It slices, it dices!
17:46<@caker>but wait, there's more!
17:46<@caker>if signup in the next 15 minutes...
17:47<@caker>time to harass HE again...
17:47<Xel>caker, why are they so difficult?
17:47<Xel>You spend a LOT with them
17:47<Xel>Aren't they supposed to be tier1?
17:47<@caker>they're not at all
17:47<@caker>squeaky wheels, and all that
17:48<Xel>No turnaround for equipment setup in the contract?
17:48<@caker>No, but it't been same day, based on me calling in every few hrs, and I'm not about to change my methods :
17:49<npmr>i had same day with netsonic, no squeaky wheel
17:49<npmr>but the uptime's been lacking
17:51<npmr>they claim to have made significant upgrades to their power infrastructure, though
17:51<npmr>we'll see how it works out
17:52[~]ajmitch only has boxes hosted in NZ, works out alright :)
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18:49<slashtom>how do i find out which host my Linode virtual server is on?
18:50<@caker>slashtom: either cat /proc/cpuinfo or on the Overview page after logging in
18:51<slashtom>when loggin into the members area of
18:58<@tasaro>slashtom: yes
19:01<slashtom>have to dig out the password, rely too much on RSA keys :)
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21:09<Kurt>a free, open-content wiki-based encyclopedia:
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21:59<warewolf>everyone go telnet to
22:01<encode>bash: telnet: command not found
22:05<Kurt>it's a fucking tradewars game is all
22:06<warewolf>I have 10 nodes available, so hav efun
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 22 00:00:21 2006