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#linode IRC Logs for 2011-01-18

---Logopened Tue Jan 18 00:00:35 2011
00:02<maxreality>he was a collector until he grew up and married and stopped caring about comic books
00:02<maxreality>another one bites the dust
00:03<HoopyCat>robinetd: because the channel is being logged by writing to a file, and you can't write to a closed file handle? :-)
00:04<nDuff>HoopyCat, ...but you certainly can change your file descriptor to point to a different place as an atomic operation...
00:05-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:05<HoopyCat>nDuff: eh, sounds like a lot of work.
00:06<HoopyCat>00:05 [oftc] CTCP VERSION reply from VS_ChanLog: StatsLog v2.0.10 (Stable Release) - Copyright (c) 2002 Chris Mason (
00:06<HoopyCat>also, might not have been possible back then
00:06<bob2>he has moved up in the world
00:07<HoopyCat>it parts and joins every day at 23:59 because it has always parted and joined at 23:59 every day
00:08<HoopyCat>it has done so for thousands of days, and it will do so for thousands more
00:09<HoopyCat>it is an unbroken cycle, a cycle that has been unbroken
00:09<waltman>thus it has been written
00:09<HoopyCat>mikegrb, on the other hand, just uses perl
00:10<amitz>so say we all.
00:11<HoopyCat>it is the way of the channel... like catholic mass or rocky horror picture show or the corner crew, it is hundreds of people collectively knowing their roles and knowing precisely what to say and what to do at each moment
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00:13<linbot>stupid bot
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00:14<pharaun>stop breaking yourself
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00:23<@heckman>stupid robot, you made me look bad!
00:23<linbot>New news from forums: php locale setting working in cli but not in fpm in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
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00:41<robinetd>C3PO was much smarter. :D
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00:44<pharaun>oh man python math is *slow*
00:44<pharaun>lulz i just converted some stuff on over to numpy and its.... like *snap* so fast
00:44<@heckman>Don't complain, urmom is slower.
00:44<pharaun>heckman: lulz
00:48<mbreslin>that's why numpy exists.
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00:49<mbreslin>and unladen swallow
00:49<mbreslin>and pypy
00:49<pharaun>and not urmom
00:49<@heckman>hah unladen swallow
00:49-!-seanh-ansca [] has joined #linode
00:49<@heckman>My one ex gf loved that movie
00:49*heckman often wonders why he broke up with her
00:50<pharaun>cuz she was crazy? ;)
00:50<@heckman>Actually, yeah
00:50<@heckman>Thanks for reminding me...
00:50<mbreslin>heckman: not the movie ;p
00:50<@heckman>I know
00:50<@heckman>It just reminded me of monty python and the holy grail.
00:51<@heckman>Although, the Frenchmen are my favorite
00:51<@heckman>Don't come back, or we will taunt you another time!
00:51<mbreslin>"In addition, we intend to remove the GIL and fix the state of multithreading in Python. We believe this is possible through the implementation of a more sophisticated GC system"
00:51<mbreslin>pharaun ---^
00:52<mbreslin>google needs to hurry up supposedly unladen swallow is supposed to be folded into cpython when it matures
00:53<mbreslin>they're busy with some other silly product
00:53<@heckman>Wait...Google is actually heading the dev of Unladen Swallow?
00:53<pharaun>mbreslin: oh right that project, nice
00:53<mbreslin>a search engine or some crap
00:53<pharaun>heckman: yeah google uses a ton of python i think
00:53-!-message144 [] has joined #linode
00:53<@heckman>I didn't know they were the active developer tho. Haha, nice.
00:53<mbreslin>heckman: google == unladen swallow
00:53<mbreslin>they made the whole thing up
00:53<@heckman>You know...then again. Google's witty humor, and the name, make sense.
00:54<pharaun>hehe indeed
00:54<pharaun>mbreslin: ah? nice yeah, one of the issue is the dumb as a rock garbage collector in the cruby/cpython
00:54<amitz>unlaid swallow
00:54<pharaun>the jython/jruby has the advantage of the JVM's gc/etc
00:54<pharaun>so yeah that's how they were able to hop into that so quickly
00:54<amitz>pharaun: double the slow though
00:55<pharaun>amitz: under what condition?
00:55<pharaun>and for fucks sake if the jvm is able to be *fast* with proper threading, surely python can do it
00:55<amitz>pharaun: don't know, I heard complains.
00:55<Talman>... Sure, pptp VPN works on the first gods damned try.
00:55<pharaun>and isn't the jvm *NOW* open source
00:55<pharaun>so can't they pull that info out
00:56<pharaun>hmm... interesting, i might have actually beaten the C implementation
00:56<pharaun>via numpy & python & multi-processing, that's weird
00:56<pharaun>wonders if there's a bug in the C impl it seems to just hang
00:56<pharaun>ah there it just updated, nvm, just some widget/GTK glitch is preventing it from updating
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00:58<pharaun>I seem to have increased the speed of this code massivly by dumping tuples/list and going with raw arrays, the hell
01:01<amitz>hmm if jython is indeed fast these days, maybe I should convert (after paying attention to caveats, of coursE)
01:01<pharaun>issue with jython/jruby is the c* libraries
01:02<pharaun>in ruby there is movement toward libffi for C library binding so that it will run on jruby/cruby/macruby/etc....
01:02<pharaun>but i don't know about python, but might be the same issue with jython is the blasted c bindings
01:02<pharaun>just an fyi
01:02<amitz>pharaun: my concern in java. Now that I don't have java baggage, I'm trying to not have any java baggage if I can help it.
01:03<amitz>that includes the vm, especially now that the evil oracle controls java.
01:04<pharaun>hehe fair enough, i do have to use some java apps but yeah, the whole oracle thing is just -_-
01:04<amitz>ibm is lucky to have covered their ass with java.
01:04<pharaun>eh? how so
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01:05<amitz>ibm and their arsenal of patents (speculation), has a special arrangement with oracle concerning java.
01:06<pharaun>ah, not surprised
01:06<pharaun>ibm can pretty much nuke anyone with their patents
01:06<pharaun>ah right, that press release
01:06<amitz>where as mortal companies and humans, are in the mercy of oracle.
01:07<pharaun>heh yeah
01:07<amitz>in a related note, having your own startup project while working for ibm is a big no no :-p
01:08<pharaun>mmh do explain
01:08<@heckman>Having your own personality while working for IBM is a big no no.
01:10<amitz>pharaun: well, with so many things they patent, when they feel like it, they can claim your employment causes you to have insight and such and such.
01:10<amitz>insight based on patents you're exposed to at work.
01:12<pharaun>well don't they as a company push pretty hard for patents
01:12<pharaun>i mean look at their numbers compared to the others
01:14<amitz>pharaun: hmm I get it but I'm not sure what you mean.
01:15<pharaun>sorry, what i mean is i guess its somwhat to be expected considering how hard they are pushing for patents, and all of that
01:15<pharaun>i mean i haven't heard of any other company who pushes as hard you know, but i'm sure others exist but just not like on the size of IBM
01:16<amitz>pharaun: yeah, but they're also obsessed in declaring that everything you do, implicitly even outside work time, belongs to them.
01:17<pharaun>pretty much i think so
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01:24<elkingrey>Hi everybody. I'm a linux noob and loving it. As of today I've begun the building of my new server. I am currently setting up a LAMP server with Ubuntu 10.10 and under the section "install and configure PHP" I am told to modify the file /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini. I am doing that but ran across a tough spot. It tells me to make sure the relevent lines are a certain way but when I get to the line "error_log = /var/log/php.log" I find that the part "erro
01:24<elkingrey>r_log" is repeated several times and I do not know which one I am suppose to edit. This is what is in the file: ; Log errors to specified file. PHP's default behavior is to leave this value
01:24<elkingrey>; empty.
01:25<elkingrey>; Example:
01:25<elkingrey>;error_log = php_errors.log
01:25<elkingrey>; Log errors to syslog (Event Log on NT, not valid in Windows 95).
01:25<elkingrey>;error_log = syslog
01:25<elkingrey> Any ideas? Also, should I remove the semi-colon from the beginning of any of those lines? Thanks a bunch! Feel free to send any help directly to me because I might not catch it amongst the public chat. Thanks!
01:25<bob2>just don't bother
01:25<opello>; at the beginning means comment
01:26<opello>and like bob2 said, you probably don't really want that logging enabled anyway
01:26<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
01:26<pharaun>just an fyi :)
01:27<elkingrey>What do you mean?
01:27<bob2>elkingrey: go to that site, paste thing, come back here, paste url, rather than than pasting thigns in the channel
01:30<elkingrey>Okay. It is asking me for username and password and I put it in but I've been rejected. Which username and password do they want?
01:30<pharaun>read the instruction :) carefully
01:30<pharaun>above the two box that you put in user/pass
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01:32<elkingrey>Is that how it's done?
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01:32<elkingrey>Okay. Thanks for the heads up.
01:32<pharaun>yeah its quiet so its not much of a issue but
01:33<pharaun>during noisy time you'll get screamed at and flood kicked
01:33<pharaun>so was just a head up :)
01:34<elkingrey>Now, is it a consensus to not bother with logs? Also, there was one line "memory_limit = 64M" Should I choose that even though the default was 128M?
01:34<elkingrey>'preciate it
01:34<bob2>apache already logs it
01:34<bob2>hence why not bothering
01:34<pharaun>and on 64, if 64 works, leave it
01:34<elkingrey>Okay. Cool.
01:34<bob2>I don't think there any reason to touch the default php.ini
01:34<pharaun>but if you need to bump it, bump it
01:35<elkingrey>Damn. Should I go back and put it at 128M, or just not bother saving any of my work? Also, one more question. I still don't understand the difference between 32 and 64 bit. When I chose Ubuntu I chose 32 bit because it was recommended. Why was it recommended?
01:37<pharaun>no like i said
01:37<pharaun>if you don't need to bump it, don't bother, if you need to, do bump it
01:37<pharaun>and 32bit
01:37<pharaun>well how much ram is your vps? 512 i assume ?
01:37<pharaun>if so then 32bit, its only the really large vps or certain workload that benefits from 64 bit but web-serving/etc really don't
01:37<pharaun>and it puts a pentality on memory usage
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01:38<elkingrey>There was also an error reporting line that was totally different from the original. Save work, or restore to original?
01:39<pharaun>i wouldn't bother with the php.ini just leave it as it is usually works out of the box as it is
01:40<elkingrey>Cool. I'm impressed how well written the Linode Library is. Very noob friendly. One thing I had to learn on my own was how to edit a file from the termal though. I am using the pico command. Is there any other that is recommended?
01:40<hobot>thats probably the best for now
01:41<elkingrey>Well. Thanks everybody.
01:41<hobot>start worrying about vi vs emacs in a couple of months/years/never type of timeline
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01:41<mbreslin>you mean worrying about vi
01:41<mbreslin>it's obviously the best editor
01:41<pharaun>nano/pico/etc just use em they work good to start
01:42<pharaun>when you feel limited by them feel free to try out emacs or vi or whatever
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01:44<Talman>ed motherfuckers, is the standard editor.
01:44<hobot>I use cat when im feeling frisky
01:44<Talman>hey, question.
01:45<Talman>I started an ssh session before activating my VPN connection in Windows 7.
01:45<Talman>All internet died as the sockets switched to the VPN IP.
01:45<Talman>Except for this ssh session.
01:46<pharaun>i sometime <3 ssh sometime i hate it
01:46<pharaun>sometime it can be surprisingly resistile to changes in ip.etc, other time it just dies if you look at it wrong
01:51<elkingrey>Okay next question. I guess it's time to set up my email server. I am presented with three options, Postfix, Zimbra, and Citidel. Any suggestions?
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01:53<pharaun>what do you want to do?
01:53<pharaun>and can we encourage you to consider google apps
01:53<pharaun>its the sanier approach to email but if you want to do email delivery and all of that then postfix will do the trick
01:55<erik`>what is it with people liking google apps so much
01:55<erik`>you have a vps already, make full use of it :)
01:56<elkingrey>I am looking for an email server that offers the most secure, lockdown potential. So Google is out for me.
01:56<erik`>secure and locked down in what way?
01:56<amitz>no networking! :-D
01:57<erik`>quite secure indeed
01:57<elkingrey>I don't fully know myself. I am a noob afterall. But I imagine having a third party in control equals less security
01:57<erik`>the third party could be more skilled
01:57<elkingrey>I don't trust Google
01:57<erik`>smart :)
01:58<pharaun>i'm just pointing it out
01:58<pharaun>most people uses google app
01:58<pharaun>its just a simpler way to take care of email and all of that e-fail
01:59<elkingrey>I know. And it's appreciated. But of the three, what would be considered the most privacy friendly. Or are they all equal? Also, I notice two of them do not have installation guides for Ubuntu 10.10 only, Ubuntu 10.04. Will the 10.04 directions suffice?
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02:21<KyleTse>We're making faceboo kapplications
02:22<KyleTse>So we're finding a server to host our applications
02:22<KyleTse>anyone here?
02:23<Marius>wooo, finally solved my webdav issues :D
02:23<Marius>KyleTse, How may we assist you?
02:23<Marius>And by "we" I mean whoever is active, but may not be employe dby Linode
02:24<KyleTse>I want to know the ping time to facebook from the DC of linode
02:24<KyleTse>before I register a server
02:24<Marius>that wasn't the command I was thinking of...hmm...
02:25<Marius>Which DC were you thinking of?
02:25<Marius>I could jump on and ping form my node I guess =)
02:26<KyleTse>I did some researches on internet
02:26<KyleTse>And Fremont (CA, USA) datacenter seems to have the best ping time
02:26-!-joshdotsmith [] has quit [Quit: joshdotsmith]
02:26<KyleTse>anyway, thanks Marius, this is my first time to come in
02:28<Marius>--- ping statistics ---
02:28<Marius>7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 6008ms
02:28<Marius>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 71.354/71.554/71.762/0.286 ms
02:29<Marius>That's from Freemont
02:30<Marius>of course, with facebook having servers here and there and everywhere, ping times will vary depending on what route you get
02:30<KyleTse>how about
02:30<KyleTse>because it should not the same =]
02:31<Marius>--- ping statistics ---
02:31<Marius>6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5007ms
02:31<Marius>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.622/1.869/2.186/0.197 ms
02:32<elkingrey>Okay, here's another noob question. I am in the process of building my server and am currently in the email phase, but I've yet to actually claim a DNS, that I know of. How do I, or at what point to I claim as my website?
02:32<Marius>elkingrey, your setting up a mail server your self?
02:32<KyleTse>it's much faster...
02:32<elkingrey>I am following the directions in the linode library
02:32<Marius>KyleTse, of course, API's are ment ot be fast :P
02:33<KyleTse>so, please try one more, how about
02:33<Marius>elkingrey, I believe most people here would go with "fuck that, use google apps" :P
02:33<Marius>--- ping statistics ---
02:33<Marius>7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 6009ms
02:33<Marius>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.713/1.860/2.027/0.110 ms
02:34<elkingrey>I've already decided against that. But that's not the question. The question is when I claim my website's name, or DNS?
02:34<Marius>elkingrey, whenever you buy the domain from a registrar
02:34<elkingrey>Does Linode not sell DNS?
02:34<Marius>Preferably you'd have the domain before setting up the mail server etc, but as long as you know what domain you'll be using it should be fine
02:34<KyleTse>that's great! it sounds good
02:34<Marius>linode provides a DNS manager, but you still have to purchase the domain from a 3rd party registrar
02:34<KyleTse>So how can I choose my DC if I use linode sevices?
02:35<nDuff>KyleTse, you're given the option when you create a new node
02:35<elkingrey>Any recommended registrars?
02:35<Marius>KyleTse, when you sign up and click to deploy a linod,e it asks what facility you'd like to use
02:35<Marius>elkingrey, I personally use, I know a lot of peopl here also enjoy the services of
02:35<Marius>Both are quite good registrars
02:35<KyleTse>I see. Ok, let me try
02:36<elkingrey>Hmm. Okay. Thanks!
02:37<KyleTse>Marius, can you give me your Freemont's IP? I want to test the ping time from Hong Kong to your server
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02:38<Marius>Well, there are test servers for that :P
02:39<Marius>yo ushould be able to ping those locations as well
02:39<KyleTse>that's great!!!
02:40<KyleTse>can you help me to do the ping time tests on each DC to, and
02:42<warren> isn't responding
02:42<Marius>tehran1 ?
02:42<warren>Marius: joking
02:43*Marius is confused
02:43<warren>Marius: unlikely place to have a linode data center
02:44<warren>Marius: like Tehran Disneyland
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02:46<dcraig>I was curious as to what was in the 100MB-fremont.bin test file
02:46<dcraig>but notepad still hasn't opened it after like 5 min
02:47<Marius>dcraig, there's nothing in them
02:47<Marius>dummy files with a fake size header I beleive
02:47<dcraig>well there has to be something in them!
02:47<Marius>I dont' ahve an atlanta node at this time to test from though
02:48<Marius>I also jsut realised I have 4 london nodes :o
02:48<dcraig>vi opens it right up!
02:48<dcraig>looks like a bunch of garbage
02:49<Marius>vi is superior of course!
02:50*heckman forgot he warmed up tea
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02:50<Marius>heckman, bring me some too
02:50<Marius>As the Linode Sales Liaison, I demand tea!
02:50<Alton35>Hah, you got your nickname from using vi too much! Tell them the Latin translation!
02:50<Marius>Alton35: ?
02:50<KyleTse>Marius: Thanks!
02:51<@heckman>I thought you wanted a CR-48?
02:51<Alton35>"bitter" is the translation
02:51<Alton35>which is how I feel after using VI!
02:51<dcraig>I'm so confuse
02:51<Marius>What's a CR-48 ?
02:51<Marius>Alton35, but vi is so pretty and easy to use!
02:51<dcraig>that chrome laptop
02:51<Alton35>haha, gawd
02:51<@heckman>Google Chrome Netbook
02:51<Marius>heckman, that too! xD
02:51<Alton35>I can use vi just enough to install some other editor!
02:51<Marius>I remembered the atomic number right after I asked :P
02:53<@heckman>Want to hear something sad Marius? I just thought about it...and IT IS THE ATOMIC NUMBER FOR CHROMIUM.
02:53<dcraig>but chromium's atomic number is 24...
02:53<@heckman>I fail as a geek
02:53<dcraig>48 is cadmium
02:53<@heckman>There's a reasoning behind it
02:53<@heckman>It's 24x2
02:53<@heckman>Oh yeah
02:54<@heckman>2 Atoms = Element
02:54<dcraig>why would they do that?
02:54<dcraig>no way dawg
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02:54<dcraig>you can just have one atom of an element
02:54<@heckman>shutup I'm trying to provide a reason
02:55<dcraig>a molecule has more than one atom
02:55<@heckman>thanks =]
02:55<Marius>dcraig, because chromium is highly unstable
02:55<Marius>As is the Cr-48 laptop which is still in early testing ;P
02:55<dcraig>really? it just sits there...
02:56<@heckman>Cr-48 is an unstable isotope of Chromium, which makes it perfect for a name of an early release version.
02:56<Marius>There's a neat aticle on it
02:56<dcraig>ohhhh... fascinating
02:57<dcraig>hope it doesn't radioactively decay and burn you
02:57-!-Knight [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:58<@heckman>I think it still uses a lithium ion batter.
02:58<@heckman> it may still burn
02:58*Duke burps to indicate his organic presence
02:59*encode deletes Duke to prevent further burping
03:13<Duke>heh how ro0d! @ encode
03:15<elkingrey>Hey everybody,
03:15<elkingrey>Whoops, hit enter too soon
03:15-!-b0tz [] has joined #linode
03:15<elkingrey>Question coming
03:15<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
03:16*heckman emerges --jobs=5 --deep world and laughs maniacally
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03:17<@heckman>long question is long
03:17<elkingrey>I am in the process of registering my domain with and they are asking me if I want to use their free name servers or to use custom name servers. I know I want to build my Postfix email server etc. myself. What do I do?
03:17*Duke invites heckman to spend a week in #purgatory :>
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03:17*heckman kinda wants to put two gentoo systems on the same host and emerge them at the same time
03:18*heckman waits for his CPU graphs to update
03:19<@heckman>elkingrey: would you rather use Linode's nameservers or namecheap's?
03:19<elkingrey>Linode's I guess. Yes, Linode's
03:19<@heckman>Your name looks familiar, I think I activated you.
03:19<elkingrey>Must have done so in last few hours
03:19<@heckman>Then just give them our five nameservers and start building your zone in the Linode DNS Manager.
03:20<elkingrey>Five nameservers?
03:20<@heckman>They are listed here (as well as an overview of the Linode DNS Manager):
03:20<@heckman>We have a nameserver in every DC.
03:21<elkingrey>Sweet, thank you.
03:24<elkingrey>Should I follow the directions at DNS stuff before I continue on the directed path? I am currently at the email server part, having chosen Postfix
03:24<@heckman>Well, you'd probably want to get your DNS stuff ready to go now. I don't remember of the postfix stuff requires the DNS to be active.
03:25<amitz>tis reminds me to large sized superman that can shoot laser from the eyes..
03:26<elkingrey>Ok. I wonder why they have you building your server and skip the DNS part.
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03:31<elkingrey>In my confirmation email from namecheap it told me it would take about 12 hours to get my IP address. I don't understand the difference between the IP address I will get from namecheap and the one I got from Linode.
03:31<Marius>elkingrey, that's the first time propogation
03:32<Marius>it -might- take 12 hours, although I've never had that happen on first setup
03:32<elkingrey>As I've been building the server on Linode it has repeatedly asked me to paste MY IP address with the default one. Will I have to go back and replace that address with the one from namecheap?
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03:33<@heckman> Asking you to paste IP or domain name?
03:33<elkingrey>IP, the one given to me by Linode
03:33<elkingrey>Well, both actually
03:33<@heckman>If it's asking for IP, you shouldn't have to worry.
03:34<elkingrey>for example in the /etc/hosts file
03:34<@heckman>As long as you know what your domain name is going to be, you should be set.
03:34<@heckman>Then again, I've not really done a mailserver
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03:34<elkingrey>Hmm. I guess I'll just have to wait until I am prompted to do something in the linode library. No use worrying about it know
03:35<linbot>New news from forums: Gaping insecurity in CentOS 5.5 32-bit and maybe others in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
03:35<@heckman>Oh wait, you mean in the DNS manager?
03:35<elkingrey>No, the IP from Linodes Remote Access tab
03:36<elkingrey>Public IPs. That's the one I plugged into /etc/hosts
03:36<elkingrey>when it prompted me to
03:37<bob2>do you mean "namecheap said it would take 12 hours for my domain to work"?
03:38<elkingrey>No, namecheap said it would take 12 to 24 hours for the account to be provisioned. Once the package setup is complete, you will receive a welcome email with the IP address and hosting account information.
03:38<bob2>so you got a namecheap VPS, too?
03:39<elkingrey>No, I just bought my DNS through them
03:39<bob2>I don't think so
03:39<elkingrey>Oh shit, never mind
03:39<@heckman>How much did you pay?
03:39<elkingrey>My bad, in the email it had several different concerns addressed, even though it didn't apply to me
03:39<elkingrey>It was a form letter
03:40<elkingrey>Well that clears up that confusion.
03:42<amitz>someone told me before in #linode about making a film of wd 49 to mae a surface oil resistant? do i get it right?
03:42<amitz>wd 40
03:45<Marius>wd-40 is to clear up oil and loosen bolts
03:45<Marius>isn't it?
03:45<Marius>I think it's some concentrate
03:45<Marius>I won't say for sure
03:46<Marius>I know it's used on cars when you cna't get a bolt loose because there's so much fat and shit on it
03:46<Marius>I don't have a car :P
03:47*Marius returns the salute
03:47<Marius>At ease, men.
03:48<Marius>I don't have a license
03:48<Marius>working on it, but it costs so much =(
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03:50<Marius>I kind of need one to get around and for work
03:50<Marius>which is why I'm working on it... but sooo costly
03:52<elkingrey>I am ready to log out of root access for the night. Can I just kill the terminal or is there a safe way to exit my connection with my linode server?
03:52<amitz>Marius: yes for that, but i'm looking for oil resistant, you see that right
03:52<amitz>SpaceHobo: no but is that what i want?
03:53<amitz>elkingrey: killing the terminal, is usually ok, just make sure you can relogin.
03:54<elkingrey>I forgot how to relogin, but I suppose I can look it up in the linode library tomorrow. Which is the best way to log out?
03:54<amitz>SpaceHobo: for cooking oil, and grill fog.
03:54<amitz>elkingrey: type exit
03:54<elkingrey>Great, thanks!
03:55<amitz>oh, i need to oil proof my balcony
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03:58<amitz>still woosh for me, need more reading.
03:58<amitz>that scotchguard from 3m, i see. will hunt for that.
03:58<amitz>thanks :-)
04:00<@heckman> nose just keeps freaking running man
04:00*heckman blows it again
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04:09<czr>your nose likes the running man.
04:14<linbot>New news from forums: linod 512 offer true root access? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
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04:18<amitz>so that likes blowing a running man?
04:18<amitz>s/likes/is like/
04:18<amitz>hmm, nevermind, grammatical error.
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04:22<czr>amitz :-)
04:31<linbot>New news from forums: Suggestions for good VPS services in Canada/Australia/NZ in General Discussion <>
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04:53<andreamarie>hello there, how can i easy restore cpanel backup to virtualmin?
04:54<amitz>ignore the alien dancer, someone will be with you shortly.
04:55<andreamarie>hello there, how can i easy restore cpanel backup to virtualmin?
04:55<bob2>no need to repeat
04:55<bob2>what makes you think virtualmin has that support?
04:55<bob2>god bless unicode
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05:00<bob2>wonder what drugs they take at the unicode consortium
05:02<Marius>Why is there a square before god saves the queen?
05:02<Marius>oh, nvm, I get it now xD
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05:09<amitz>Marius: I don't really get it, the taking off of hat to show respect to queen?
05:09<bob2>gentleman prefer tophats
05:10<amitz>tophat doesn't seem stable, easily blown by wind, fall when tilted, etc.
05:11<amitz>SpaceHobo: now, google disappoints me. What's up with Monocolatus McToff?
05:12<amitz>erik`: or berreta
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05:23-!-yazer [] has joined #linode
05:23<yazer>Hi guys!
05:24<yazer>It's my first time here... So I have some noob questions :)
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05:25<yazer>With Linode 512, is there a ready image with Apache / MySQL / PHP / Mail server / FTP?
05:25<yazer>I just want to host a website
05:25<yazer>it seems that my website has outgrown shared hosting
05:26<yazer>and I am not that good with Linux...
05:26<yazer>can't afford
05:26<yazer>can't afford a system admin
05:27<yazer>yes, that's why I am asking ... is there a base copy with Apache / MySQL / PHP / Mail server / FTP server?
05:27<yazer>or that's not avialable?
05:27<yazer>yes I know sure
05:28<yazer>but it gets u a speedy start
05:28<yazer>I read that there is a LAMP version.. with apache / mysql / php
05:28<yazer>is that avaialble with linode 512?
05:29<yazer>is installing apache / mysql / php easy?
05:29<linbot>Please use SSH/SCP/SFTP/rsync-over-ssh instead of FTP:
05:29<bob2>yazer: very
05:30<bob2>sudo aptitude install libapache2-mod-php5 mysql-server
05:30<bob2>oh and php5-mysql
05:30<yazer>just that :D
05:30<bob2>well, that doesn't do anything by itself
05:30<bob2>you still need to configure it for your sites, and install whatever software you want it to serve etc
05:31<yazer>I am sorry I am not following well.. may be cuz i never tried it... my home testing server is apache on Windows 7 professional
05:31<yazer>I tried Ubuntu before... but didn't use it... it was just for experimenting
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05:32<yazer>which is the best distro for webhosting?
05:32<AviMarcus>the one you can administrate
05:33<yazer>they are all dark teritory for me
05:33<AviMarcus>ubuntu has been pretty easy on me
05:33<bob2>if you have no idea, choose ubuntu 10.04 or ubuntu 5
05:33<yazer>yes, i have no idea
05:33<yazer>I tried ubunto before
05:33<AviMarcus>debian you mean?
05:33<amitz>ubuntu 5!!
05:33<bob2>debian 5
05:33<AviMarcus>I've been using ubuntu desktop for 7+ mo, so that helped me ease into using ubuntu server
05:34<bob2>I reordered the sentence to make it less likely that debian would be chose ;)
05:34<yazer>which is easier to handle... security updates.. more support...?
05:34<bob2>tough but fair
05:34<yazer>Ubuntu 10.04
05:34<yazer>why is cpanel so expensive?
05:35<yazer>and is it really needed?
05:35<bob2>because people will pay that much
05:36<AviMarcus>Question.. I have two servers with IP failover. I've been manually rsync --delete from server 1 to 2, but this should be automated. Is there something that can do more of a synchronization than a copy? e.g. keep a log of the files, so that deletes work from either machine? I don't want to go drbd.
05:36<AviMarcus>(because of the failover, sometimes server2 is master..)
05:36<yazer>yes, i will hopefully... but I don't know the outcomes from that. Like, doing a mistake, leaving a security hole, getting hacked later on and I can't know the cause!
05:41<yazer>ok thanks guys... see you later
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05:46<Megaf>Hi folks, Good morning, is it possible to download my Linodes hard disk?
05:47<amitz>yes, from your linode to your HD, and vice versa.
05:47<amitz>or vice versa
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05:48<czr>also from linode HD to linode HD
05:49<AviMarcus>hmm, it looks like I'll be trying unison
05:49<AviMarcus>that sounds kind of odd, though. Any suggestions? my problem with drbd is it seems only one can be active at a time
05:49<bob2>unison isn't any different to rsync in this case
05:50<bob2>you can do active active with drbd, too
05:50<AviMarcus>oh that changed?
05:50<AviMarcus>unison will propogate deletes
05:51<AviMarcus>rather than basing on the source directory
05:51<bob2>the other option is to not do any of that, and just deploy your code to both and have your db replicate
05:52<bob2>depends on what your boss told you you had to do wrt switching time and how reliable things need to be
05:53<AviMarcus>no boss :P
05:54<AviMarcus>I have mysql master-master replication and it seems to be working beautifully
05:54<AviMarcus>the main problem is syncing voicemail messages and logs
05:54<AviMarcus>e.g. after a voicemail is deleted.. I want it deleted
05:54<AviMarcus>I probably should set up a rsync cdon as part of pacemaker
05:55<AviMarcus>rsync cron*
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06:10<gbit>After resizing my linode, doing mtr tests, it seems to be far away then before.. is that possible?
06:12<AviMarcus>'lo LongPointyStick
06:12*LongPointyStick pokes AviMarcus
06:12<bob2>well, it will have moved machines
06:12<bob2>but unless you did extra work it is in the same dc
06:13<gbit>bob2, extra work? what do you mean?
06:13<bob2>what I said
06:14<bob2>unless you put in extra work and asked linode to move it, it is in the same dc
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06:14<gbit>before it was about 16 routers to get here, now is about 21
06:14<gbit>thats a huge difference
06:16<Marius>gbit, that's all depending on what route yo uget form your location
06:17<amitz>maybe something is replaced/down/moreexpensive, etc
06:17<gbit>Marius, I did the mtr test just before resizing it.. and after resized got far away from me...
06:18<bob2>linode2048's and above are connected via Monster cat6
06:18<AviMarcus>as opposed to?
06:18<AviMarcus>I don't recall reading there was a difference
06:19<amitz>gbit: maybe a coincidence? or maybe they secretly moves you whenever you shut down. :-D
06:20<gbit>I will open a ticket... thanks you all
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06:25<Marius>I'm still goign with "he got a different route"
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07:10<fanofasdf>hi folks. does anyone know how the Linode backup system works? does it just mount my root fs readonly while my linode has it mounted rw?
07:10<bob2>pretty sure it is lvm snapshots
07:10<bob2>but whatever it does, it doesn't remount you ro
07:12<fanofasdf>ah, ok so i should still do some dumps of any mysql databases
07:12<fanofasdf>thanks bob2
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07:27<praetorian>i believe you will find that is bob2's fault.
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07:28<Boohemian>anyone her own a kindle?
07:28<AviMarcus>bought an archos 101 2 weeks ago
07:28<AviMarcus>read 2 books on it so far
07:29<+stan_theman>Boohemian: i do
07:29<Boohemian>stan_theman: the new one?
07:30<+stan_theman>old one
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07:30<+stan_theman>I don't know. It's not new within a year
07:30<Boohemian>do you like it?
07:31<+stan_theman>I love the screen. I think that's the biggest thing for everyone. I use it less than I should though
07:31<Boohemian>my main concern is lack for other file formats
07:31<Boohemian>have you used calibre? does it convert djvu to pdf well?
07:31<bob2>which formats
07:31<+stan_theman>Boohemian: yes
07:32<+stan_theman>it's great
07:32<AviMarcus>I open 150mb native image pdf's with relative ease on the archos :P
07:32<+stan_theman>I hoard ebooks, but I've never really liked djvu in general
07:32<+stan_theman>but calibre is pretty great
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07:33<Boohemian>AviMarcus: i want a tablet screen
07:33<AviMarcus>archos 101 = 10.1" screen
07:33<Boohemian>stan_theman: well, i don't get to pick when i download books all the time ;)
07:33<AviMarcus>but it's NOT e-ink
07:33<AviMarcus>it's full color LCD
07:33<Boohemian>i have 150GB of ebooks currently :)
07:34<Boohemian>most of the tech ebooks are in dvju
07:34<+stan_theman>haha, good point. I haven't ever noticed any problems moving to kindle
07:34<Boohemian>but tech books, in other words, books with diagrams suck on the kindle screen (unless dx size)?
07:34<+stan_theman>I don't know that I'd ever read a technical book that wasn't a book though
07:34<+stan_theman>as a general rule
07:34<AviMarcus>well, ~6gb storage base mode +16gb microsd should get you started
07:35<AviMarcus>oh 32gb
07:35<AviMarcus>and you can load over network
07:38<AviMarcus>anyway, the archos isn't an ebook reader, it's android on a ~1ghz machine. battery won't last for weeks, but you can basically do any linux-able thing you want with it.
07:38<+stan_theman>AviMarcus: have you read for an extended period of time? how is it?
07:39<AviMarcus>it's fine. I read in the dark with the backlight on 5%
07:39<AviMarcus>but I'm used to looking at LCDs all day long
07:40<AviMarcus>I used to read books in class on a tiny palm pilot
07:40<AviMarcus>I read 2 "normal" novels in the last week
07:40<AviMarcus>rtf format, so I used the free coolreader in the market
07:41<+stan_theman>it sounds like a great deal for all those features
07:41<+stan_theman>I wish they made e-ink monitors
07:41<+stan_theman>just to keep a pdf up on or something
07:41<AviMarcus>I figured if I was paying $100+ for an ebook reader, I should get my money's worth. It's about $250 I think for the 8gb version
07:41<+stan_theman>yeah definitely
07:42<AviMarcus>they have e-ink / lcd combos coming to market
07:42<AviMarcus>that might make it to an LCD
07:43<+stan_theman>heh, I go through times where I check if I can bring the brightness down on a fully-lowered monitor
07:43*praetorian just uses the kindle app, on his android
07:43<praetorian>(and mac, pc, etc)
07:46<Talman>I am awake.
07:47*praetorian hits you with a bit of 4x2
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07:47*Talman ingests the 2x4 and belches smoke.
07:48<Talman>BRING ME BABIES THAT I MAY FEED. If you are out of babies, fine imported Wisconsin cheeses.
07:48<Marius>What if I have neither, but I have toddler toes?
07:48<Talman>How big is your andrpoid's screen, though?
07:49<Talman>That will not feed the infernal engine, the rage inhibitors will go unpowered, and the wrath generators will be brought online.
07:51<Boohemian>can anyon tell me if this is a decent computer for the $399 price tag (newegg has it on sale). i am most worried about the pentium dual core processor. i am looking to buy two laptops to replace two macbook pro's i am selling. one under $500, the other 600-1100 (i was going to purchase the thinkpad T410 the other night but the screen is absolute shit according to anandtech, so i am still looking
07:51<Boohemian>i don't need the best screen out there, but i don't want the worst screen out their in its class either, especially when it's on the high end of what i want to pay
07:51<bob2>cut at "so i am still looking"
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07:52<praetorian>Talman: 4"
07:54<Talman>I had a Pentium Dual Core (Not Core Duo) in m desktop.
07:54<Talman>WHat are you tring to do with this 400 dollar laptop, Boohemian?
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07:59<AviMarcus>Talman, I have the archos 10.1" tablet - it's android
08:00<Marius>I'm keepign away form tablets till honeycomb is out
08:00<Marius>the minimum requirement of a dualcore to run honeycomb will ensure pretty good high end tablets, hopefully the need for a bigger cpu will entice manufacturers to add some inchest to the displays as well
08:02<bob2>prepare to be disappointed
08:02<AviMarcus>if you expect a PC, well, it's not
08:02<AviMarcus>but I'm pretty happy with the archos
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08:07<linbot>New news from forums: Please help! Rsync/Cygwin/Putty - totally stuck in General Discussion <>
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08:09<AviMarcus>how can I reload my .bashrc? I added an alias
08:09<praetorian>source .bashrc
08:09<praetorian>or : . .bashrc
08:09<praetorian>no ;
08:09<Talman>source. Welcome to gentoo. man source
08:10<AviMarcus>No manual entry for source
08:10<AviMarcus>ubuntu here
08:10<praetorian>man bash .. search source
08:10<AviMarcus>hmm, worked though
08:10<praetorian>. .bashrc
08:10<praetorian>is a shortcut
08:11<AviMarcus>in lieu of an auto sync, I set up a pull/push alias for rsync
08:11<bob2>source (and .) are shell builtins, so no man pages
08:12<praetorian>bob2: well. they are /documented/ in a bash man page :P
08:13<Talman>Bah, help source then.
08:14<praetorian>didnt docutils die a slow and painful death yet?
08:14<Talman>Hey, who should own a /var/srv/samba/shares?
08:14<Talman>I used that in the 90s, never got the hang of it.
08:14<bob2>restructuredtext is great
08:14<bob2>yeah :|
08:16<bob2>holy shit
08:17<bob2>twisted + django
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08:27<Talman>My library has my book in.
08:28<Talman>"JOomla for Dummies." I wish to see if it has anthing in there I don't know.
08:28<Talman>And then I'm going to use it to write training material in an easy to understand format.
08:29<Talman>What. :)
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08:32<Talman>Alternately, I'm training computer illerite people who think that the "for dummies" series is useful.
08:32<czr>or, in order to simulate proper human behaviour in car crash tests, the dummies there have been added with AI, and now demand to know what is this thing called interwebs.
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08:35<hawk>czr: It's just a series of tubes, it's not a big truck, so nothing for them to test
08:35<czr>of course, but since they're now sentient, they want to know
08:36<czr>probably in order to find the best usenet "channels" for dummypron
08:37<czr>it's still better than an FB post saying "I can't connect to the Internet!"
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08:39<czr>oh nice. all warningsy and stuff.
08:40<czr>SpaceHobo, yeah, I might read it later, the actual text wasn't all that interesting
08:40<czr>well, infact it wasn't interesting at all :-).
08:40<swaj>why use twisted for django hosting when nginx has uwsgi support? :P
08:40<czr>swaj, why use python anyway if there's COCs
08:41<bob2>blah blah haskell blah blah
08:41<swaj>Nginx is incredible. I <3 it long time
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08:42<czr>SpaceHobo, do you know people who respond friendly-like to CVEs? :-)
08:42<czr>"oh look! a new CVE! wheee!"
08:42<czr>just joking..
08:43<czr>but I do understand why getting CVEs might not be the best deal in the world.
08:43<czr>yes. and probably get paid to do it as well.
08:43<czr>well, he wrote most of it, so of course it reflects on him personally
08:44<czr>not the ideal world obviously, but I do understand why getting a CVE isn't a joyous moment for everyone
08:44<czr>it's like, if you would be the author of libwmf.
08:44<czr>as a hobby project, which you'd rather really forget
08:44<swaj>meh. the alternatives are the memory leaking whore called lighttpd, or ..... apache
08:45<czr>there's always thttpd.
08:45<AviMarcus>nginx has 6.6% of the "market" according to pingdom
08:45*czr hides & runs
08:45<swaj>apache is terrible
08:45<czr>everything is terrible really
08:45<czr>that's why thttpd always wins
08:45<AviMarcus>I'm using nginx + php5-fpm
08:45<AviMarcus>seems pretty good
08:46<swaj>same... I'm using nginx + php-fpm for my wordpress crap, then nginx + passenger standalone for rails stuff
08:46<czr>SpaceHobo, ah yes, but we actually use thttpd here..
08:46<swaj>memory/cpu usage is super low, and god it's fast
08:46<czr>well, hpa's tftpd but not for production stuff
08:47<AviMarcus>the comment was meant more to say it's very much in use
08:50<AviMarcus>SpaceHobo, you seem to be making wild speculation
08:50<AviMarcus>the popular choice is of course apache
08:50<AviMarcus>and ruby on rails maybe
08:51-!-krish_ [~krish@] has joined #linode
08:51<swaj>it's just a statement of fact. Contrasting your opinion. Why would 6.6% of the "market" use a webserver written by some "crazy russian haxx0r who isn't so friendly about CVE's"
08:51<swaj>answer: because it's that damn good.
08:52<AviMarcus>especially since it's not the incumbent like iis/ apache
08:53-!-HedgeMage [] has joined #linode
08:53<swaj>evented i/o is experimental tech?
08:53<swaj>don't you use twisted?
08:53<czr>poll if you want reliability!
08:53<czr>busyloop is what real men do!
08:53<czr>loops even
08:54<bob2>while True: sleep(0.1) ; for fd in fds ;
08:54<swaj>so you think a single thread per request is a good model?
08:54-!-AviMarcus [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
08:54<czr>of course. the more context switches the merrier.
08:54<swaj>rofl czr
08:55<czr>SpaceHobo, I don't really want even to participate in this conversation :-).
08:55<dKingston>man, it's been a long time since i've spoken here
08:55<czr>as I said, we use thttpd.
08:55<bob2> <- food irradiation symvbol should be more terrifying
08:55<Talman>I'm not even sure what you're all arguing about.
08:55<pharaun>these jokers outta to not be on the fucking road
08:55<dKingston>totally brah
08:56-!-DrJ [] has joined #linode
08:57<pharaun>stupid fucks on the road
08:57<Talman>The ionizing radiation smbol makes me wonder if people think there's enough time TO run once exposed to an ionizing radiation source.
08:57<czr>ion, ion, like zion.
09:00<Talman>Isn't it ionizing potassium? :)
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09:17<Kuboing>I thought humans needed pottasium?
09:17<pharaun>small amount probably
09:17<Karrde>they do, some
09:18<Kuboing>For instance, a radiation exposure of 10 mrems (10,000,000,000 picorems) increases your risk of death by about one in one million—the same risk as eating 40 tablespoons of peanut butter, or of smoking 1.4 cigarettes
09:18<Talman>We do.
09:18<Talman>I take pills to get mine.
09:18<pharaun>its all about judging your risks and decide what is the lessor risk/etc...
09:19<Talman>If you don't get enough potassium, your kidneys will shut down, btw.
09:20<pharaun>Talman: yo o/ still working out of a starbuck ?
09:20<Kuboing>pharaun: americans seem to have it down most of the time; eat until exploding
09:20<pharaun>Kuboing: its true :)
09:20<pharaun>afterall i'm an american & i'm 300lb :-p
09:20<Kuboing>jeesus christ
09:21<Kuboing>even I never weighed that much
09:21<pharaun>well i'm 6 foot 3
09:21<pharaun>my brother is 6 foot 6, and he's 250lb
09:21<pharaun>so yeah i'm overweight, i just find exercising to be boring as fuck, hence i've been looking for a good bike to buy to put in my apartment, i already have a mountain bike, but its winter now so i ca't bike outside
09:23<Kuboing>I'm 7 foot
09:23<Karrde>I'm 7 inches
09:23<Kuboing>pharaun: here's a good start; eat less
09:23<golb>mrems = millirems?
09:23<Kuboing>and especially eat less bread
09:24<pharaun>Kuboing: hahaha really helpful advice :-p
09:25<pharaun>Kuboing: my usual meal == 1 cup of coffee + yogurt for breakfast, lunch is coffee, sandwitch, some chips, dinner is usually what i can scrap up
09:25<pharaun>and no its not a giant 10 pound sandwitch
09:26-!-gibbet [~gibbet@] has joined #linode
09:28<Kuboing>my usual daily meal is breast wing (without anything added)
09:28-!-auraka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:28-!-linville [] has joined #linode
09:28<Kuboing>er, I mean chicken breast >_<
09:28<pharaun>nice one :-p
09:28*Kuboing is still waking up
09:28<Kuboing>and sometimes shoarma
09:29-!-Yaakov [] has joined #linode
09:29<Kuboing>yes, shoarma
09:29<pharaun>Yeah i used to eat bit of mayo on my sandwitch and others,
09:29<Talman>pharaun: Yeah, on a VPN now.
09:29<pharaun>already switched a while ago to honey mustard and some others that are better for ya, and taste better anyway
09:29<pharaun>Kuboing: oh neat, looks tasty to me
09:41<Talman>I had a bowl of cereal for breakfast + pills + milk.
09:41<pharaun>yeah i'm looking at it
09:41<pharaun>today was coffee+milk and yogurt
09:41<gibbet>i'm trying to get a google apps account linked to my domain name but its asking me to contact site admin... dows that mean linode?
09:41<Talman>I have to have something actually in m stomach.
09:41<Talman>gibbet: IT does not.
09:41<pharaun>heh yeah, same here
09:41<Talman>Are you the administrator for your google apps account?
09:41<pharaun>if i don't have something in my stomach, i sometime end up really sick and having a lots of pain in the stomach ugh
09:41<pharaun>so i usually have to have atleast some milk or something to eat
09:41<Talman>Food buffers the effects.
09:41<pharaun>effects ?
09:41<Talman>Otherwise I pass out and they call an ambulance (again) for me. :)
09:41<pharaun>ah, oh dear
09:41<gibbet>Talman: I am the admin of the google account but it doesnt allow me to login anymore and says contact site admin
09:41<Talman>gibbet: ou can't be an admin of a google account. Where are ou trying to login to? What URL.
09:41<Kuboing>Talman: can you induce hypotension in a normal person?
09:41<Talman>Kuboing: Yes. Stress.
09:41<Kuboing>I'm as stressed out as I can be, and I have a high blood pressure :/
09:41<Kuboing>not a low one
09:41<pharaun>i have a bit of a high blood pressure, due to my overweight
09:41<Talman>Oh, I see what you mean.
09:41<pharaun>but yeah, i think its more of a long long term high stress
09:41<Talman>Has your doctor suggested lifestyle changes or put you on drugs?
09:41<Kuboing>Talman: no
09:41<Talman>When I say "high blood pressure," I mean 220 - 280.
09:41<Talman>Then ou either don't have high blood pressure or ou're going to fucking die.
09:41<Kuboing>Talman: I'm in that range
09:41<Kuboing>WHAT IS VACATION?!
09:41<Talman>If your blood pressures is in 220/280 over 100-170, you need to go to a fucking hospital right the fuck now.
09:41<Kuboing>I've never had vacation
09:41<pharaun>managed to secure 2 weeks to head home this christmas it was so helpful
09:41<pharaun>lulz yes
09:41<Kuboing>I'm European
09:41<pharaun>exactly ^^^
09:41<Talman>Hint: When my BP is that high, I am immediately seen in the emergency room. No waiting.
09:41<Kuboing>the dutch never take vacations, either
09:41<pharaun>the corporate masters won't allocate much time to let you take time off
09:41<pharaun>and they put you in slave shops :-p
09:41<linbot>New news from forums: website is too slow. in Performance and Tuning <>
09:41<Kuboing>SpaceHobo: I work 14-18 hours a day, 7 days a week...
09:41<Kuboing>I'm constantly working back and forth between these 3 screens :x
09:41<Talman>gibbet: And our google account signed up for a google apps account?
09:41<Talman>Or are ou prsently trying to sign up for one right now?
09:41<gibbet>Talman: yea i wanted to sign up for it...
09:41<pharaun>SpaceHobo: "finding free time?" hah
09:41<pharaun>only if your corporate masters decide to grace you with it
09:41<straterra>mwalling: DUDE
09:41<mwalling>straterra: ?
09:41<Talman>Its telling you to contact your site admin and saying its already taken.
09:41<Talman>gibbet: Someone has already registered that domain in the google apps sstem.
09:41<gibbet>well, me
09:41<Talman>I asked you if you previously registered it, or if you're trying to register is right now.
09:41<Talman>You said you wanted to sign up for it.
09:41<Talman>So, YES or NO: I have previously, before this attempt, signed up for Google Apps?
---Logclosed Tue Jan 18 09:41:32 2011
---Logopened Tue Jan 18 09:41:43 2011
09:41-!-mikegrb [] has joined #linode
09:41-!-Irssi: #linode: Total of 414 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 403 normal]
09:41-!-mode/#linode [+o mikegrb] by ChanServ
09:42<Nivex>lolbot has ops!
09:42<Talman>Japanese nuclear bomb.
09:42<gibbet>sorry for the confusion, i had registered it just a moment ago... and it took me to a page that asked me to put a verification page where i was supposed to put in an html code... closed the tab by mistake - and now i can't get back to the page which told me what code to put where... it just asks me to contact site admin
09:43-!-Irssi: Join to #linode was synced in 83 secs
09:45<Talman>Are you signed in to your google account?
09:45<pharaun>SpaceHobo: hehe :-p
09:46<gibbet>but Talman: Nope...
09:46<linbot>New news from forums: Indicators you look at when considering a plan upgrade? in Performance and Tuning <>
09:46<straterra>Heh..idiot at work "I'm not familiar with Winodws 7..where do I change the environment variable?"
09:46<straterra>The same place as you do with Vista..and XP..and 2000
09:51<amitz>also, chu means pig.
09:51<linbot>New news from forums: Suggestions for good VPS services in Canada/Australia/NZ in General Discussion <>
09:51<Talman>Its from a song.
09:51<Talman>A Japanese NUCLEAR Bomb.
09:51<amitz>So his mom named him Steven Pig! muahaha
09:52<Talman>gibbet: WHy aren't you signed into your google account>
09:52<pharaun>SEO NEEDS TO DIE
09:52<pharaun>ALL ABOARD!
09:54<Talman>I have a web maintenance client that seems to think that its an SEO account. "I need more natural search terms."
09:54<Talman>Dude, you don't even have fuking backups.
09:54<Talman>Stop working about your SEO black voodoo and worry that you went 5 months without even being able to access your website.
09:55<pharaun>and all of these "SEO" stuff is making the googles worthless for me
09:55<Karrde>So, this SEO guru walks into a bar, bar & grill, bar and grill, tavern, pub, public house...
09:55<pharaun>i'm getting less and less useful results
09:56<czr>Karrde, hah
09:57<linbot>New news from forums: php locale setting working in cli but not in fpm in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
09:59<czr>the problematic thing about SEO is that people only do it because they want to get rich
09:59<czr>(quick too)
09:59<czr>so basically, SEO will disappear once people don't do that anymore..
10:01<Talman>THis guy wants to be front page for heavy construction achinery. I was hired on to do web maintenance, not SEO.
10:01<Talman>Meanwhile in Australia, kangaroos die in flood. Humans too.
10:01-!-River_Rat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:01<amitz>czr: meanswhile, capitalism is alive and well!
10:01<swaj>meh, like it or not, SEO is relevant and important to any decent business
10:02<pharaun>czr: indeed, plus it turns *MY* googles to be worthless, i pretty much stopped relaying on google to do searches for product review
10:02<pharaun>because all you end up is getting these spam pages for thousands of pages
10:02-!-Bass10 [] has joined #linode
10:02<swaj>yeah Google's been losing for me lately. I search for a programming question and I get results that are from some douchebag who basically ripped all the content off
10:03<swaj>instead of the actual stackoverflow page
10:03<pharaun>jeff has been having a ton of problem with that right now actually
10:03<pharaun>he has been talking to google about that and etc but not really having much improvements
10:04<pharaun>used to do google->stackoverflow but now i just opt to just search directly on stackoverflow, its kind of sad
10:04<swaj>I might have to start using Bing :P
10:04<pharaun>haha i don't think they are going to be much better
10:04<Talman>Of course he's not getting imporvements.
10:04<Talman>That shit makes Google a lot of adwords money.
10:04<pharaun>but it does not benefit me, it wastes my time
10:04-!-JamesChevalier [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:04-!-JamesChevalier [] has joined #linode
10:05<pharaun>and makes me not want to use the service at all
10:05-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has joined #linode
10:05<czr>swaj, depends on what exactly you mean by SEO really. if you mean exploiting search engine algorithms to give unproportionate weight to your terms, then that's just like pissing into your own well (this is what I normally mean by SEO). If you mean "make your site searachable", then that's different.
10:05<czr>and while all marketing uses SEO to some extend, it doesn't really mean that it's somehow more morally justifiable (in my eyes obviously).
10:06<czr>extent even.
10:06<pharaun>yeah, there is reasonable SEO, like above, making site searchable, friendly to seearch engine, etc
10:06<Talman>SEO, to me, is guys posting crazy shit on blogs to game the system.
10:06<pharaun>but to me when i hear SEO, i keep on thinking "snake oil saleman" kind of bullshit, and gaming the system to get rich
10:06-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has quit []
10:07*czr nods
10:07<czr>same here
10:07<Talman>Last complaint: Google is penalizing my site for not having individual page titles on every page. Its not random enough.
10:07<pharaun>at the expense of everyone else, its "I GOT MINE, FUCK YOU"
10:07<pharaun>and it just in the end poison the well for everyone
10:07<pharaun>but do they care? no
10:07<czr>which brings us back to the root cause of the problem.
10:07-!-jameswilson1 [~Adium@] has joined #linode
10:07<Talman>made for adsense sites make a lot of money,
10:07<linbot>New news from forums: linod 512 offer true root access? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
10:08<pharaun>but it poisons the well for me, the "<product> review" was the first thing to go
10:08<pharaun>but now more and more things are becoming worthless
10:08*Talman doesn't have TRUE root access, only fake root access.
10:08<czr>what is true root access anyway
10:08*pharaun has urmom root access
10:08<czr>aren't we all just brains floating in a large vat.
10:09<czr>pharaun, that's not mymum, that's a honeypot version of urmum actually
10:09<pharaun>czr: hah
10:10<czr>gotta be careful with them intertubes
10:11<pharaun>indeed >:|
10:11<robinetd>That's nice. Apparently my drive is failing already.
10:11<pharaun>but my question, and one thing that kind of aggrevents me is
10:11<robinetd>SMART is like "raaaaawr" and shows 116 reallocated sectors.
10:11<pharaun>some people are predicting that the next stage of "search" is "SOCIAL SEARCH!"
10:11<Talman>Ask your friends.
10:11<pharaun>and i'm kind of going .... the people i know off facebook are barely more intelligent than a flea so how would it help me
10:12<Talman>What if none of them have written a review on RC Cola.
10:12-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:12<pharaun>Talman: bingo
10:12-!-ashr [] has joined #linode
10:12*czr disregards most of the new-media "hype"-crap anyway
10:12<ashr>Hi any one there?
10:12-!-auraka [] has joined #linode
10:12<Talman>ashr: INSERT KITTEN
10:13<linbot>New news from forums: Setting a new server up, should I switch to nginx? in Performance and Tuning <>
10:13<pharaun>SpaceHobo: er? how so
10:13-!-GaveUp [] has quit [Quit: You're a bloody puppet!]
10:13<ashr>Hi i m unable send mails how to enable mail function?
10:13<czr>SpaceHobo, err, like altavista didn't? :-)
10:13<Talman>ashr: More information is needed.
10:13<czr>I started with altavista
10:13<pharaun>SpaceHobo: yeah, i know but i guess what I mean is, its still an algo/relationship graph/etc... instead of having a BUNCH of clowns who try to throw together their own search engine that USES THE POWER OF CROWD SOURCING!
10:14<czr>hmm. I think they had something, but not as sophisticated.
10:14<Talman>They even had internet!
10:14<czr>yahoo was pretty good as well at one point
10:14<ashr>@talman i have an article directory site .. when user is registered he needs to get a mail ..but thy are not getting it
10:15<czr>@ as in target name ala Makefiles?
10:15<czr>that _would_ be cool
10:15<straterra>mwalling: how many days would it take you to install eclipse + JDK to where you could compile a hello world app?
10:15<czr>$< is the first dep
10:15<czr>but no one will notice
10:15<czr>I need to remember the dollars crocodile thing
10:16<czr>if I ever teach make to anyone anymore.
10:16<Talman>ashr: Did you install a mail server on your linode?
10:16<czr>SpaceHobo, I will steal your dollar crocodile.
10:16<ashr>i m totally new to this
10:16<ashr>Can u link it to me?
10:16<Talman>!library exim
10:17<linbot>Talman: 1. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) ( - 2. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid) ( - 3. Send-only Mail Server with Exim on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) (
10:17<Talman>"Use #1.
10:17<czr>or #2?
10:17-!-d`oh [] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
10:17<Talman>"Or #2 if ou have Ubuntu LTS
10:17-!-d`oh [] has joined #linode
10:17<ashr>above is my ubutu version shall i use it?
10:18<Talman>If that is our version, then follow the directions in that tutorial.
10:18<Talman>Then your website will be able to send out emails.
10:18<czr>yes. more important information that we all need.
10:18-!-auraka [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:19<czr>I wonder what is the stage that the incoming spam-flow could be useful to extract some real entropy in order to feed PRNGs
10:19<czr>it's not quite there yet.
10:19<Talman>Are you uggesting that ashr is sending out spam emails>
10:19<czr>neh, he seemed genuine enough
10:19<czr>it was more of a generic ramble.
10:20<pharaun><-- is reminded of the holy grenade of antioch instructions!
10:20<Talman>Are you suggesting that linodes are used for evil!?
10:20<pharaun>are you suggesting the internet are used for evil?!
10:20<@Perihelion>pharaun: purrdeta is pretty familiar with them to
10:20<d`oh>thank god my reverse finally set
10:21<@Perihelion>At least how they pertain to migrations
10:21<pharaun>Perihelion: hah!
10:21-!-auraka [] has joined #linode
10:21<czr>pharaun, of course not
10:21<czr>internet is used to further the development of all mankind.
10:21<czr>receicing URGENT IMPORTANT INFORMATION is a natural part of that
10:21<d`oh>ahhh back to work, be back on around lunch.. don't work too hard everyone
10:21<czr>and, why yes, I would like to know about the new investment opportunities in nigeria..
10:22<czr>why wouldn't..
10:22<czr>who even.
10:22<ashr> localhost.localdomain localhost hostname
10:23<ashr> instead of means
10:23<ashr>do i need to remove hostname also?
10:23<pharaun>Talman: why would anyone not want to know this urgent information!
10:23<ashr>or its like ??
10:23<czr>Talman, please, TELL ME MORE!
10:24<czr>or do we have to wait to read about it from wikileaks?
10:24<Talman>Pour talcum powder in her woo-woo and hump the hell out of her. You'll love it, she'll beg for death.
10:24<ashr>any one
10:25<ashr>I did but it sames command not found
10:25<ashr>I m using like this --- localhost.localdomain localhost hostname
10:25<pharaun>Talman: and that is..... mystery solved
10:26<ashr> what is that ?
10:26-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has joined #linode
10:26<czr>probably an IP address
10:27<Talman>ashr: Have you ever done the internet before as a web person?
10:27<ashr>If u can help me it other wise its ok
10:27<ashr>I said i m new to this
10:27<Talman>"this" is insufficient information.
10:28<Talman>You will be evaluated for skillset and knowledge base.
10:28<Talman>Why are ou editing your /etc/hosts file?
10:28<DephNet[Paul]>Talman, I think "this" refers to "being a systems administrator"
10:30-!-jameswilson [~Adium@] has joined #linode
10:30<czr>"I decided to contact you purely on the personal conviction of trust and confidence to assist in distributing the funds left behind by my client.". Yes. because I am trustworthy
10:30*czr should get back to work
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10:31<Talman>Dear Mr. czr: To prove that you are actually a trustworthy and conident man, please have your daughter who you have spoke of in recent emails stand topless, that is without a shirt or bra on, holding a sign saying "I suck American cocks," which is random and will authenticate our transaction.
10:31-!-jrphelps [~jxpx777@] has joined #linode
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10:32<amitz>Will my photo be acceptable?
10:32<czr>"Dear Sir %SENDER_ID%, while our transaction will surely proceed, the fact that you have not required me yet to travel to %RND_COUNTRY% makes me wonder about the legality of this envedour, please advise."
10:32<DephNet[Paul]>amitz, only if you look like a girl ;)
10:33<czr>It's odd though, that specific spam was almost without grammatical errors
10:33<Talman>I don't know, man, there were some Thai stewards on the ship that were kathoeys and I enjoyed watching people freak the fuck out when they dressed as girls.
10:33<czr>otoh, it was pretty boilerplate.
10:34<amitz>DephNet[Paul]: thai non-girl is very passable.
10:34<DephNet[Paul]>amitz, true, just make sure you have a mangina :P
10:34<Talman>English: Who is she? My God. Me: That's a boy. English: Fuck ou, no she isn't. Me: Bring lube.
10:34<czr>also in some countries women have almost as much as facial hair as me, so it's not always all that simple.
10:35<amitz>if it's folded inside, does that count? muahaha
10:35<DephNet[Paul]>stupid question, what is the switch to check if your apache config is correct?
10:35<ashr>Wow i configured it
10:35<czr>DephNet[Paul], restart apache :-)
10:35-!-jameswilson1 [~Adium@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:35<ashr>Testing if it workins
10:36<czr>DephNet[Paul], apache2ctl configtest ?
10:36<ashr>can some one try to register here and let me know if it is working ?>
10:36<czr>although this is hardy, so that might be out-dated.
10:37<czr>is it the "missing plug-in" gray area?
10:38<czr>actually the site does look like a seo-startings.
10:38<ashr>Done .. its working
10:38<ashr>thanks to the one who helped me and to others too
10:38<DephNet[Paul]>czr, apache2ctl is not found
10:38<czr>DephNet[Paul], probably some ubuntu-specific thingy then.. let me check
10:38<JshWright>"Right Click Disabled" cute...
10:39<ashr>Forcing user to check it directly
10:40<czr>such user-friendlyness
10:40<pharaun>and why do you hate tabs :<
10:40<czr>accessability-optimized even.
10:40<czr>people should stop taking pills.
10:40<ashr> do u guys like it?
10:40<pharaun>how *I* work is i open any interesting articles in tabs and read through them
10:40<DephNet[Paul]>czr, its CentOS
10:40<JshWright>ashr: no, it's an annoying site to use...
10:40<czr>DephNet[Paul], hmm. don't have any of those lying around, sry :-(
10:40<pharaun>ashr: disable the right click bs, and it'll be better
10:41<czr>DephNet[Paul], try writing ap then complete it, there should be some apache tools or something somewhere.
10:41<DephNet[Paul]>czr, its ok, I am getting "Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using for ServerName" when restarting
10:41<amitz>pharaun: I use ctrl+click instead yay!
10:41<czr>amitz, you against yay?
10:42<czr>DephNet[Paul], ah, ok. add the ServerName then to the def site.
10:42<amitz>pharaun: I use ctrl+click instead, yay! satisfied?!
10:42<czr>depends on whether pharaun is into yay or not really.
10:42<czr>or more of a nay..
10:43<pharaun>amitz: hah
10:43<amitz>czr: would you believe me if I tell you that yay means urmom?
10:43<pharaun>I tend to middle click anyway but "noclick scripts" tend to make me want to go out of my way and destroy it
10:43<czr>amitz, of course. this is the internet. the place where there is only truth :-).
10:43<pharaun>beside i run 99% of the sites with noscripts :3
10:43<pharaun>problem solved
10:43<amitz>czr: I will never tell the truth on this, muahaha.
10:44<czr>amitz, what, you evil.. counter-informationalist!
10:44<pharaun>people are you are the bane of the internet!
10:44<amitz>ashr: yeah, right click disabled is really no no.
10:45<czr>yeah, same as with customer support. "if only the customers would stop calling, we could serve them better".
10:45*caker disables left click on
10:45*erik` disables caker
10:45*czr removes the middle-button from the internet
10:45<czr>now only I has middle buttons!
10:46<erik`>you are a part of the internet
10:46*czr should get help.
10:46<pharaun>czr: you only screwed the windows/linux users, apple already only had uni-click :-p
10:46<czr>I am the internet.
10:46<czr>look at my cute lolcat face.
10:46<amitz>czr: counter-informationalist is like someone who always reply with his/her own story ;-)
10:46<linbot>I am Lawnmowerman
10:46<czr>it was a great movie though.
10:46<czr>although I prefer the lsd-scene of 2001
10:47<czr>amitz, yes. whatever it is, it is not informationalist at least.
10:52-!-eighty4 [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
10:53<amitz>lawnmower man movie is quite... interesting.
10:53<amitz>just read the synopsis.
10:54<robinetd>hurr hurr, free prepaid shipping label. :D
10:58<@jed>isn't that in mirror's edge?
11:01<pharaun>a game?
11:03<hobot>it might be
11:04<hobot>I sort of remember that
11:07<pharaun>i hate defunct processes
11:07<devsforev>zombie processes are worse... they eat your brains
11:09-!-vermont [] has joined #linode
11:11-!-metaperl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:11<linbot>New news from forums: Mysqld crazyness: using CPU's 80-120% all the time. in Performance and Tuning <>
11:13<straterra>LCD panel replaced \O/
11:17<amitz>devsforev: I have yet to see a zombie movie where they eat your brain.
11:18<DephNet[Paul]>czr, for some reason my ServerName had been removed from my httpd.conf
11:19<devsforev>amitz: you may be right... but there still is the minor problem of the thing eating your flesh haha
11:19<amitz>SpaceHobo: really. name one, besides Return of The Living Dead.
11:20*devsforev fires up Call of Duty to kill some zombies
11:20<amitz>devsforev: yep, after all, as long as the brain intact, moving it to another body is trivial!
11:20-!-tharkun [~0@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:21-!-metaperl [] has joined #linode
11:21*amitz wants the body of one of the greek gods :-D
11:21<devsforev>is there a greek god of the zombies?
11:22<devsforev>because that would be sweet...
11:24<straterra>I..can't ever go back to 1200x800 ever
11:25<pharaun>I cannot go back to <2560x1600
11:29<amitz>just stumbled upon a professional cosplayer :-o
11:29<pharaun>well whelp i think I've somewhat solved some of the memory issues in my python app, still need to figure out the hell up with the compare step -__-
11:29-!-tharkun [~0@] has joined #linode
11:30<straterra>pharaun: not releasing the old variable, so with each iteration it uses more and more memory?
11:30<pharaun>somehow i fail to be surprised by this
11:30<pharaun>straterra: no, tuples & list
11:30<straterra>pharaun: Psh..we don't need DNS
11:30<straterra>Piracy has been around since before DNS :)
11:31<pharaun>i switched it over to np.array and it dropped the memory requirement massivly for the first phrase of the processing down to ~2-3gb
11:31<pharaun>even over 70000 images so seems that tuples/list was more heavyweight than i expected
11:31-!-ashr [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
11:33<mwalling>straterra: welcome to managed languages
11:33<pharaun>straterra: yeah i tried to figure out the releasing, etc and various stuff, didn't seem to help, beside it should be already being garbage collected *anyway*
11:33<pharaun>what helped was tuples/list -> np.array
11:35-!-akerl [] has joined #linode
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11:36<straterra>mwalling: What do you mean?
11:36-!-jrphelps [~jxpx777@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:36<straterra>Oh..relying on the GC?
11:37<straterra>That's a concept for my brain
11:37<pharaun>plus i tweaked things a little to do like -> where open(blah) as f: *foobar*
11:37<pharaun>and it'll do the right stuff and close it when it goes out of scope, etc
11:38<amitz>pharaun: no exception incidents when opening?
11:38-!-ktabic [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:38<pharaun>some, yes, those returns "None"
11:38<pharaun>because those images can't be processed
11:39<pharaun>and my understanding is that that snippet would do GC/closing no matter what when its out of scope/etc
11:39<pharaun>like "final: blah"
11:39<amitz>you close those manually or there isn't anything you can close?
11:39<pharaun>isn't anything i believe
11:39<pharaun>because the whole chunk of the generate_sim_data is within that snippet
11:40<amitz>if you're stump, perhaps try to exclude those files? *shrug*
11:40<pharaun>yeah i got the generate_sim_data to do good, and it seems to be pooling properly :)
11:41<pharaun>and i got the compare_sim_data to look good, its just super slow, and in the end it gobbles up the memory so
11:41<pharaun>another issue, not exactly the same but yeah, so i need to figure out how to fix that one also
11:42<akerl>ok, so i've been stumped by this whole php nightmare. cgid works, but is slow, fcgid works but only in 10 second bursts, and i cant find any docs with clear instructions on using fastcgi or php-fpm with apache. can anybody point me to some clear documentation on setting up something fast and stable?
11:43-!-tharkun [~0@] has left #linode []
11:46-!-iwillig [] has joined #linode
11:46<iwillig>hi channel, i have a linode running an web application. Part of the team is working in Mali and for some reason they are unable to access the machine
11:47-!-rajesh [] has joined #linode
11:48<mwalling>theres a lot of internet out there
11:48<iwillig>i know thats the issue
11:48<iwillig>i forced them to run a traceroute from their office
11:49<Peng>You forced them? Like, you set ninjas to order them to do it?
11:50<amitz>Peng: threat of urmom presence is enough.
11:50<mwalling>iwillig: and...?
11:51<iwillig>one second
11:51<iwillig>let me get the results
11:51<Peng>Good idea.
11:51<linbot> <-- paste here, not in the channel
11:51<Peng>If the Internet is broken somewhere, Linode can't fix it, you know.
11:52<iwillig>Peng, i realize that
11:52<Peng>iwillig: What does that error mean in English?
11:53<iwillig>good question
11:53<mwalling>contact the owner of
11:53<mwalling>actually, contact the owner of and ask who is
11:53<iwillig>thats an timeout error
11:54<iwillig>thanks for you help
12:00-!-fakhruldeen [~mohamed@] has joined #linode
12:07-!-BlueSageDigital [] has joined #linode
12:07-!-mstshake [~mstshake@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:07<BlueSageDigital>Help need assistance on IP Verification.
12:08-!-kenichi [] has joined #linode
12:09<Talman>Explain, please, BlueSageDigital.
12:09<Talman>ou want to know if our target IP belongs to Linode?
12:09<BlueSageDigital>I am not receiving the Email when I try to log in.
12:10<Talman>Right, you need to be a lot more specific.
12:11<Peng>Talman: Presumably the Linode manager IP verification thing.
12:11<BlueSageDigital>I try to log in, and I am not in my home town. Receive the Account Security Log in from unverified IP address, and I am not receiving the email
12:11<Peng>BlueSageDigital: Checked your spambox? Email
12:11<Talman>Yes. Email
12:11-!-MrGlass [] has quit [Quit: Be excellent to each other]
12:12<BlueSageDigital>I just got the email, but it took for ever, thank you!! :)
12:12<akerl>BlueSageDigital: i've had the email take quite a while before :-)
12:13<akerl>thats why i ended up just whitelisting my linode's own ip. then i just ssh tunnel into it, and i can use the manager
12:13-!-wao [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:13<BlueSageDigital>I got it, thanks guys. :)
12:13<Talman>There's a good idea.
12:14<Talman>BTW, anyone know if Google's public DNS servers are long cache?
12:14<BlueSageDigital>Yea, that is a good idea.
12:14<Talman>I need to specify some DNS servers.
12:14<Talman>(For my VPN)
12:14-!-BlueSageDigital [] has left #linode []
12:15<akerl>ouch. just watched my node crunch through its ram and right into swap for the first time. considering it idles at 40ish mb in use, i was entertained
12:15<@irgeek>Google uses short TTLs on their own records, so I doubt they ignore other DNS server's TTLs.
12:17<Peng>Talman: You could check.
12:18<Peng>Talman: dig @ -> 60.
12:18<Peng>They do limit how *long* TTLs can be, though, to 86,400. That bugs me.
12:19<Peng>Also, what kind of moron doesn't accept short TTLs? Google, and Google Public DNS in particular, seem to not be run by morons.
12:21<Talman>I kinda just didn't want some public DNS that cached forever like BT.
12:21-!-verb [] has joined #linode
12:22<Peng>Talman: BT caches forever? Ugh.
12:22<Peng>Talman: Exactly how long?
12:22<Talman>We had one guy who was waiting for about 6 hours or some ungodly amount.
12:23<akerl>huzzah! with vigorous tuning of my fcgidmaxprocesses and fcgidtimescore, i have taught my linode to play nice with php
12:23-!-jxpx777 [~jxpx777@] has joined #linode
12:24-!-KyleTse [] has joined #linode
12:24<KyleTse>I would like to know the BW of the linode servers.
12:25<Peng>KyleTse: A lot.
12:25<Ovron>They are in full colour.
12:26<Talman>They use multiple multitronic cores, with FTL processing, so about 32 gigaquads of bandwidth.
12:26<Talman>THat help?
12:26<KyleTse>So how about the bandwidth?as slicehost is 20Mbps for 512M servers
12:26<Talman>Are you asking how much you get, or the speed?
12:26<Peng>KyleTse: Linode limits outbound traffic to 50 Mbps.
12:26<KyleTse>the speed
12:26<KyleTse>for any size of servers?
12:27<Talman>50Mbps, but you can request a raise if needed.
12:27<Peng>KyleTse: I believe so.
12:27<Peng>And what Talman said.
12:27<KyleTse>I see. So how can I request for more?
12:27<Talman>Doesn't matter what size package you buy.
12:27<Talman>Open a trouble ticket.
12:27<Peng>KyleTse: Only request more if you actually need it.
12:28<KyleTse>because we're making image servers so the BW may be very high.
12:28<KyleTse>ok, thanks.
12:28<Talman>Justify to IRC why you need it. If we believe you, they may too!
12:28<Talman>>.> Are you hosting a chan site.
12:28*Ovron loads a nuke
12:28<KyleTse>sorry, what is a change site?
12:29<Talman>An image board.
12:29<KyleTse>not actually, we're hosting a server that help people to making some interesting images.
12:30<Talman>AAre you using Linode as an image CDN? Look at the bandwidth (per month) caps.
12:31<Peng>Someone using Linode as a CDN.
12:32<Talman>You're aaware how quickly you'll burn yourgh your bandwidth, right?
12:32<Talman>512 is only 200 GB.
12:32<Deezire_>i would recommend rackspace or amazone aws instead
12:32<Deezire_>For a pure CDN
12:32<d`oh>do I keep disconnecting and reconnecting?
12:32<Peng>d`oh: No.
12:33<Deezire_>You pay like 0.01$ per gigabyte transfer or something
12:33<Peng>d`oh: You /quit 2 hours ago, "changing servers".
12:33<d`oh>thank you, colloquy makes it seem like I am
12:33<d`oh>yeah that's when my reverse took effect
12:33<d`oh>I jumped
12:33<@jed>I'd recommend Linode for anything within the ToS
12:33<Peng>Deezire_: Rackspace has pricier bandwidth than Linode. S3 does too, unless you're using a *lot*.
12:33<Talman>I would suggest the person think about their bandwidth usage, and then decide if Linode can handle the bandwidth part, or just act as a command/control thing.
12:33<Talman>So would I.
12:34<d`oh>Peng: good looking out, I appreciate it
12:34<Deezire_>Peng: but much less hassle setting up ;)
12:34<Talman>Even if you use Amazon for HOLDING the images, use your linode as command/control (LAMP stack) and call the images via your linode.
12:34<KyleTse>ok, thanks for suggestion
12:34<Deezire_>You dont have to maintain your own edge site or keep it updates
12:34<Talman>Something still has to be the website.
12:35<Peng>Linode has expensive disk space, of course, so depending on your usage S3 could be cheaper.
12:35<Deezire_>Talman: with s3fs? I would not use that. Then you'd more or less be downloading every image off s3 and reserving it
12:35<Deezire_>sounds even more expensive
12:36<Talman>No, not with s3fs.
12:36<Talman>Why would I want to mount my bucket like a file system?
12:37<Deezire_>If you were going to use your s3 bucket as storage youæd have to?
12:37<Peng>Deezire_: Why not just upload things using the API?
12:37<Deezire_>one way or another, you'd have to download it to your linode before you could serve it, then it would be much easier to just use cloudfront.
12:37<akerl>if anything, i'd definitely recommend proxying so that you can serve s3 content through your server, but i see no reason to mount it
12:37<Peng>Deezire_: S3 can serve directly over HTTP.
12:38<Deezire_>Peng: You still have to have the physical file to make your LAMP stack serve it ;)
12:38<Deezire_>Peng: yeah, but then you ARE using S3 and cloudfront instead
12:38<Peng> that a bad thing?
12:38*Ovron facepalms
12:38<Deezire_>Peng: no, that was what i first recommended
12:38<amitz>did someone mention!
12:38<Peng>I don't know WTF we're talking about.
12:38-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
12:38<Deezire_>Peng: im a little confused too :)
12:38<robinetd>Coolbeans. Getting a full refund for the hard drive. Prepaid label and all.
12:39<Peng>amitz: I got some fruit! Not ripe enough to eat yet, though.
12:39<amitz>Peng: what fruit?
12:39<akerl>Deezire_: you setup your server. it proxys any requests to to your s3 bucket, over http. there's no mounting, no physical files stored on your linode, and all content is shown through your domain
12:40<robinetd>I got a fruit too. A lemon. In the form of a hard drive. >:
12:40<Peng>amitz: Nothing interesting. Peaches and cantaloupe.
12:40<amitz>some fruits are interesting to be eaten while not ripen yet.
12:40<amitz>namely coconut.
12:40<Deezire_>akerl: that would give you terrible performance
12:40<Deezire_>as your s3 bucket is not setup for usage like that
12:41<Peng>Is the person who was originally asking about this even still here?
12:41<Peng>Ah, KyleTse, who stopped talking a while ago.
12:41<amitz>Peng: ooh, just found out what cantaloupe is. That's nice too, I don't really like it though.
12:42<Peng>I had to look up how to spell cantaloupe. :P
12:42-!-akerl [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]]
12:42<amitz>heh, me too. alt-tab-ing back and forth :-p
12:44<amitz>and yeah, one the fruit that goes bad really fast.
12:44<amitz>s/the/of the/
12:45-!-fakhruldeen [~mohamed@] has left #linode []
12:46<amitz>I like to think of food in term of how fast it goes bad because humidity means rapid growth of bad things.
12:47<amitz>I mentioned about kiwi fruit before in #linode. I meant , not kiwi the bird.
12:47-!-kenichi [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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12:50<hawk>amitz: And also not kiwi the new zeelander, I presume...
12:50<hawk>(Maybe there are even more meanings)
12:51<amitz>You presume right, at this moment. :-p
12:52<pharaun>Ovron: o/
12:52<pharaun>Ovron: managed to resolve the memory pressure for generate_sim, oddly was python list/tuples that was causing it, switchig to just purely np.array + 1 list fixed it
12:52<pharaun>but let's say, its bloody fast :D
12:53<Peng>pharaun: What version of Python?
12:53<Ovron>pharaun: sweet :)
12:53<pharaun>Peng: 2.6.6 i do have 3.1 but i'm not sure if numpy/pil is python 3k ready
12:53<pharaun>i'm not sure but what i was doing before was generating a list of list of 3 value tuples
12:53<pharaun>for each of the RGB, so 1024 tuples for each image
12:54<pharaun>and that was exploding the memory usage, just doing a list of np.array which were 32x32x3 arrays didn't explode the ram so i dunno
12:54<Peng>pharaun: Python keeps a cache of tuple objects. If you create a billion tuples, and then delete them, I'm not sure if it will keep all of them around or just a few.
12:54<Ovron>pharaun: how much ram are the np.arrays using now?
12:54<pharaun>i think roughly 10-11 meg
12:54<Ovron>heh, a bit better than 20GB
12:54<pharaun>i know
12:55<Ovron>did you solve the CPU issues?
12:55<pharaun>but i'm still having some strange issue with the 2nd phase but its more of a computation issue, so need to figure out wtf, its still also exploding the ram there
12:55<pharaun>yeah since i switched to np.array
12:55<pharaun>i was able to keep it at 90-95% on average for my pool for the generate_sim step
12:55<pharaun>and now it only takes *minutes* to do 70 thousand
12:55<Ovron>still using .map?
12:56<Ovron>cool stuff
12:56<pharaun>doing pretty good with .map surprisingly now since i switched to np.array
12:56<pharaun>but my "compare_sim_data" step is still sucking
12:56<Ovron>needs more cuda
12:56<pharaun>it keeps on falling over to 1-2 processes and taking forever
12:56<pharaun>yean haha
12:57<pharaun>it just sucks to do 70k^2 compares
12:57<pharaun>i think some of the issue with the compare_sim_data is to do with the balancing of the allocation to the map or something, need to tweak that a bit
12:57<Ovron>perhaps you could pre-sort them into different buckets of overall characteristics
12:57-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
12:57<Ovron>while analysing
12:58<pharaun>I was pondering that, already kind of with the RGB data, right now i filter out any non RGB data
12:58<straterra>Or write it in ASM and be done :)
12:58-!-redgore_ [~redgore@] has joined #linode
12:58<pharaun>but i was going to generate multiple buckets for each data type cos yeah
12:58<pharaun>straterra: hah
12:58<Ovron>definitely needs more cuda
12:58<pharaun>the objectives of this was to get a working multiprocessing setup & get it to use all 12/12 cores which the first phase does specullarly, its the 2nd phase that is still having issues
12:59<pharaun>the c impl was single threaded, pretty fast but still singlethreaded
12:59<pharaun>and actually i think i've managed to beat the c impl in raw speed because almost all computation is now done via numpy :D
12:59<pharaun>plus the whole 12/12 core thing :-p
12:59<Ovron>moar cuda
13:00<straterra>pharaun: Which is written in C
13:00<Ovron>cuda wuda shouda! as simple as that!
13:00<pharaun>straterra: i know, which is exactly why i was moving *as much* of my computation into numpy so i can use their well tweaked code, versus the naive implement in the c impl
13:00<pharaun>Ovron: amazon is starting to provide EC2 with cuda fyi
13:00<Ovron>I saw
13:00<pharaun>i was like.... sweet
13:01-!-redrock [~redrock@] has quit [Quit: redrock]
13:01<pharaun>i wonder if there is any sort of heurssics that i can apply to the SIM data to pre-sort it into buckets of similarity
13:01<pharaun>right now i'm rejecting anything that matches less than 98% matches and it seems to be working good, the c impl was doing 95%
13:02<pharaun>algo works pretty good for certain subset of images, posters or black/white pictures makes it fall over but yeah
13:02<Ovron>what's the match data, the means?
13:02<pharaun>basically "estimated" >98% "similar"
13:02<Ovron>by what data set?
13:03<Ovron>the calculated means that you did, or something else?
13:03<pharaun>i compute the difference between each of the 32x32x3 cells, then compute the similarity between each cells
13:03<pharaun>and if it all totals up over 98% i enlist it
13:03<pharaun>yeah i used numpy to do the calc
13:04-!-KyleTse [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
13:04<pharaun>basically a image is simpified to a 32x32 region and if the similarity between all regions are high enough, meaning... the "abs(x - y)" is low enough (aka difference)
13:04<pharaun>this implies that the image is "similar" its not perfect, i borrowed the algo from gqview
13:05<pharaun>it was a simple/fast algo to start off with before i start working on the harder ones like SIFT
13:05<Gika>anyone knows a media player for mac which remembers the movie's position when i reopen it, like smplayer on linux?
13:06<pharaun>and nice thing is it will ignore you know certain features like logo, etc cos those gets scaled out of the image due to the down-sampling, and it also ignores minor changes in each images like coloring, etc... so its able to match up pretty good as long as you restrict it to >95-98% matches
13:06<pharaun>wish i could claim to have came up with it but really the author of gqview came up with the initial c impl
13:07<Ovron>well, I wouldn't issue an award for it, as that's a pretty standard approach to finding similar data :p
13:07<pharaun>Ovron: pretty much, but i just haven't really seen *many* program using it at all
13:07<pharaun>most "image similarity" apps only compare on checksums or various other metadata such as exif, etc...
13:08<rajesh>hi all, got a question - what could be the reason one isp customer is able to 'see' (ping/traceroute) our linode ip, but not another? anything particular i should check on?
13:08<pharaun>and i'm going to be getting into the more advanced algo like feature matching, so i can catch rotation, and be able to hopefully identify/target the algo better, this current one works good for color/picture without vast amount of single colors, etc... its the black/white, vector, and others that trips it up
13:09<rajesh>i should clarify - the two customers use different isp's.
13:09-!-Surye [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:09<pharaun>rajesh: network issues
13:09-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
13:09<pharaun>rajesh: see if you can't get something like "mtr" from the troublesome customer?
13:09<rajesh>pharaun: right. if i'm to be troubleshooting for them, anything specific i should look out for?
13:09<Ovron>pharaun: sounds like a cool project ^^
13:10<pharaun>also did you update/change dns recently or is this purely pinging the "ip" sort of thing
13:10<pharaun>Ovron: yeah, its one that i wanted to get in for years but i really didn't want to have to deal with all of the image libraries, their differing impl, etc... so PIL->numpy helped in that regard
13:10<Peng>rajesh: iwillig asked earlier, you know.
13:10<rajesh>pharaun: thanks. i'll check with them and get a mtr. what's strange is that they can ping/traceroute to, but not the ip for our server/account.
13:11<pharaun>Gika: i don't know of any, don't have a mac, try to get smplayer onto mac ?
13:11<pharaun> is different machine fyi
13:11<pharaun>plus it also depends on which dc you are on, etc...
13:11<rajesh>pharaun: right. it was just a test, 'cos i couldn't think of any. 'checklist'...
13:12<pharaun>i would think the main one would be try to get a mtr, and etc to help narrow down the "problem" spot/etc
13:12<swaj>man I'm digging Pylons
13:12-!-lsabota_ [] has joined #linode
13:12<rajesh>pharaun: ok, i'll look into that. thanks.
13:12<swaj>it's like... not all smoke and mirrors like rails is
13:12<Cromulent>swaj: Pyramid surely? :)
13:12<swaj>no, Pylons :P
13:13<Cromulent>swaj: Pylons isn't being updated anymore - use Pyramid instead
13:13<Cromulent>Pyramid = new Pylons
13:13<robinetd>You must construct additional pylons.
13:14-!-joshdotsmith [] has joined #linode
13:14<Cromulent>or rather
13:14<swaj>I wasn't aware
13:15<pharaun>oh so basically its "just another webframework?"
13:15<Cromulent>pretty much
13:16<swaj>I'm confused
13:16<swaj>Pylons Project is still around, but they develop Pyramids as their web framework?
13:16<Cromulent>pyramid is basically pylons + repoze.bfg + turbogears
13:16-!-lsabota_ [] has quit []
13:16<swaj>hmm, but isn't TG bloated as hell?
13:17<swaj>when I was reading, it seemed like TG was the "throw everything but the kitchen sink at you" framework.
13:17<swaj>Plyons appeal was that it was very small
13:17<pharaun>Ovron: managed to hack matplotlib to work yet? :-p and what happened to your time-traveling serial cable?
13:17<Cromulent>swaj: Pyramid is aiming for the full stack framework space that Django inhabits yet with the flexibility of Pylons
13:18<pharaun>and bit off topic, but this is a java question regarding unit tests, can i put in code in like a test suite that is ran only once per each test suite?
13:18<Ovron>pharaun: machine sent off to HP, the VGA port decided to show funny colours later yesterday, and matplotlib is installed... in another VM, running squeeze
13:18-!-psandin_ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:18<Cromulent>swaj: that is the best explanation I can give
13:18-!-psandin [] has joined #linode
13:18-!-mode/#linode [+o psandin] by ChanServ
13:18<swaj>Cromulent: hmm. maybe I shouldn't be using it then. Part of the thing that's been a pain for me in learning rails is that it abstracts too much. I'm used to doing things by hand, you know?
13:19<pharaun>Ovron: oh so... yeah smells like hardware issue to me :-p and aha, haha
13:19<Cromulent>swaj: well if you like to avoid 'magic' then use Django
13:19<pharaun>swaj: heh i have same issue, hence one of the big thing i've been doing is building my site by hand, ground up so i can throughout understand everything that happens before i start playing with magic/frameworks/etc
13:19<Ovron>I hate magic in web frameworks
13:20<pharaun>magic can be good, if its really well done
13:20<Cromulent>Java is the worst when it comes to magic
13:20<swaj>Cromulent: yeah but django has this whole admin/user system built in
13:20<pharaun>and you understand *W.T.F* is going on
13:20<Cromulent>swaj: you don't need to use it
13:20<Cromulent>swaj: it is entirely optional
13:20<pharaun>Cromulent: explain regarding java, you speaking of like j2ee?
13:20<Cromulent>pharaun: precisely
13:21<Karrde>I delete data like you on the way to real errors
13:21<swaj>ASP.NET used to be that way... nothing but "magic", but ASP.NET MVC has really addressed that for me. I love it. But, alas, I don't have (nor do I want to purchase) a windows-based web server, so I've been dabbling in python and ruby
13:21<pharaun>Cromulent: haha, alrighty, yeah, i do a bit of j2ee stuff but i go out of my way to kind of avoid the magic stuff cos it just ruins your mind
13:21-!-micky [] has joined #linode
13:22<straterra><3 PHP
13:22<swaj>PHP is a plague
13:22<pharaun>don't unleash another cancer website on the world!
13:22<straterra>PHP just works
13:22<Cromulent>swaj: from what you have said I think you might really like Django - give it a chance at least
13:22<pharaun>we have enough cancer in the world, lest you add more
13:22<Cromulent>straterra: if by work you mean induce brain haemorrhages then yea
13:22<straterra>All of my web devel is PHP
13:22<swaj>Cromulent: I'll check it out. One thing I've noticed about Python especially is that a lot of these frameworks/libraries have really good documentation.
13:23<pharaun>swaj: hah that was one of those thing that attracted me to try out python, the documentation
13:23<pharaun>ruby has terrible ones for most part
13:23-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
13:23<Cromulent>talking of ruby / rails - what is up with watching programming videos? Its a terrible way to learn a framework
13:24<swaj>well that's changed a lot. Ruby has a ton of good docs. is pretty amazing. And Why's Poingniant Guide to Ruby is also very good
13:24<swaj>And I actually like screencasts, if they're well presented.
13:24<pharaun>i hate screencast
13:24<swaj>if it's just some monotone guy droning on about random crap, then yes, I agree. screencasts suck.
13:24<pharaun>they have speaking, i don't do speaking
13:24<Ovron>straterra: I know right! The baddies blame it on PHP rather than their own skill ;)
13:25<Cromulent>Ovron: ooo :)
13:25<duckydan>I learned a lot from Drupal screen casts.
13:25<pharaun>swaj: not really, it has "good" doc for rails, and certain subset of stuff, but when you start to deliver into NON rails stuff, the docs goes to shit
13:26<straterra>Ovron: just like Java
13:26<swaj>pharaun: yeah I can agree there. But for the rails community to take your gems seriously, you have to provide good docs.
13:26<swaj>and tests
13:26<Ovron>straterra: pretty much.
13:26<straterra>Are you playing Minecraft?
13:26<duckydan>1 hour of screen shots = 3 hours of me screwing with stuff on my own.
13:26<ssanders>find the right BOFH and it doesnt matter what language you silly devs decide to use
13:27<straterra>I null routed akamai for the entire corporation earlier today :O
13:27<pharaun>swaj: but no, i don't use rails, i don't want to use it, i want to do system programming & etc.... hence that area is really piss poorly documented
13:27<pharaun>and poorly tested
13:27<straterra>Too many people downloading/streaming
13:28<swaj>I really dig virtualenv and easy_install for Python. It's like rvm/rubygems
13:28<straterra>I dig 1920x1200 :x
13:28<robinetd>I dig urmom
13:28<pharaun>i never really liked rubygems
13:28<straterra>I dig
13:28<pharaun>but rvm, didn't get a chance to try it,
13:28<pharaun>and so far with python all of my libraries was already in the system :D
13:29<robinetd>straterra: So did you hear my loudly complaining that the drive I got was a lemon? :o
13:29<pharaun>robinetd: we *all* heard
13:29<swaj>I like Jeff Atwood's quote on PHP
13:29<robinetd>pharaun: It was like when cartman gets angry.
13:29<swaj>Does PHP suck? Of course it sucks. Did you read any of the links in Tim's blog entry? It's a galactic supernova of incomprehensibly colossal, mind-bendingly awful suck. If you sit down to program in PHP and have even an ounce of programming talent in your entire body, there's no possible way to draw any other conclusion. It's inescapable.
13:30<straterra>robinetd: what drive?
13:30<Gika>< pharaun> Gika: i don't know of any, don't have a mac, try to get smplayer onto mac ? < there's no native version... i'd have to compile it :/
13:30<robinetd>straterra: Western Digital 1002FAEX
13:30<pharaun>Gika: oh? macports? and yeah i figured, can't you try like fink/macports?
13:30<straterra>SATA 3
13:30<Gika>oh right, lemme check macports
13:30<pharaun>swaj: link to the said blog
13:31<robinetd>straterra: Had 114 reallocated sectors and smart told me to go fuck myself.
13:31<straterra>swaj: Also..that was two years ago
13:31<Ovron>also, boohoo.
13:32<pharaun>robinetd: haha, thats why i always get new harddrive and i hammer it to SHIT and back for days before i put it into normal usage to encourage it to fail
13:33<linbot>New news from forums: Linode's unreadable login forms in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
13:33<swaj>straterra: nothing's changed. PHP still blows.
13:34<robinetd>pharaun: It's okay, no sensitive data was put on it. Except my private GPG key. But I don't know my password to it anyways.
13:34*robinetd blushes.
13:34<ssanders>swaj: come back and say that when ruby and python can thread proerly
13:35<pharaun>robinetd: hehe, hence dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/drive bs=1024mb
13:35<pharaun>and i let the fucker BUURN for a few days
13:35<pharaun>ssanders: and php can thread?
13:35<swaj>ssanders: what are you talking about?
13:35<pharaun>ssanders: beside i just now did multi-processing processing in just 3 lines and i was able to accelerate my app to 24 cores
13:36-!-shawnps [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:36<robinetd>pharaun: What processors are you using?
13:36-!-seanh-ansca [] has joined #linode
13:37<pharaun>robinetd: dual xeon x5650's
13:37<pharaun>the hexcore 2.67 ghz xeons
13:37<swaj>ssanders: MRI's ruby uses green threads, but Rubinius and MacRuby will do OS threading.
13:37<ssanders>swaj: both py and rb rely on a global interpretter lock. php is ugly and afwul, but at least the underlying C threads sanely
13:37<pharaun>and jruby too on platforms where the JVM does not need to do green-threading
13:37<ssanders>other rubies might do a slightly better job
13:38<robinetd>pharaun: Right, you have 12 cores.
13:38<ssanders>but its still ass
13:38<pharaun>ssanders: that's more of an implementation detail really
13:38<robinetd>And 12 fake cores.
13:38<linbot>New news from forums: Please help! Rsync/Cygwin/Putty - totally stuck in General Discussion <>
13:38<pharaun>robinetd: so, i can still take advantages of the other cores via HT, if i put it at 12 processes it does not use all of the cpu power, so by slamming it at 24 i can om nom nom it all up
13:38<Ovron>php threads?
13:38<robinetd>pharaun: lolkay
13:38<pharaun>and the i7 generation HT has improved
13:38-!-rouss [] has joined #linode
13:38<pharaun>a ton over the p4
13:39<pharaun>most app i've used have seen a speedup by going to 24 threads over 12
13:39<pharaun>some don't, and those are hammering the cache more
13:39<swaj>ssanders: that's pedantic. Ruby and Python themselves may not do OS-level multithreading, but it doesn't really matter. And since when does PHP thread?
13:39<rouss>hello, can i have an ip address of linode's London facility? I would like to know what my ping is
13:40<pharaun>ssanders: also its implementation detail because you have mri/yarv/jruby/macruby/etc... plus you got cpython, jython, ironpython, stackless python and most of them all do/use OS threading
13:40<rouss>thank you people
13:40<auraka>pparadis: time go build a looking glass so people can see their return routes
13:40<pharaun>its just the default Cruby/cpython that does not and they lame out with the GIL
13:40<jkwood>I blame the torrent I'm seeding.
13:40<@pparadis>auraka: <3
13:40-!-vermont [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:41<swaj>pharaun: and for web development, multi-threading is a non-issue imo
13:41<auraka>seeing the route one way isn't that useful :)
13:41<ssanders>swaj: php threads. you can google it if you dont believe me.
13:41<pharaun>swaj: yes usually because the container/server does it for you
13:41<pharaun>threading in webapp i think are discouraged
13:41<swaj>ssanders: really? because it doesn't from everything I'm reading.
13:41<ssanders>as a bofh and not a developer, i'd really prefer it if you devs would quit hopping on the latest language fad and go back to using perl w/ mod_perl
13:42<swaj>python is a fad?
13:42<@Perihelion>YEAH MAN
13:42<pharaun>ssanders: hah, none of my projects are *WEB* enabled anyway :-p hence mod_perl is rubbish!
13:43<@pparadis><-- perl user for 15 years, does not like mod_perl, more fastcgi for web side here
13:43<Ovron>php4lajf *
13:43<swaj>pnctl_fork() is not multi-threading. pretty sure that starts another process.
13:43<straterra>PHP3, mang
13:43<jkwood>I do all my web programming in COBOL.
13:43<straterra>Don't say that
13:43<straterra>I still have to support a COBOL app
13:44<robinetd>I do all my programming with butterflies.
13:44<swaj>ssanders: PHP does not support multi-threading. The only thing you can do is launch a child process with pnctl_fork().
13:44<@Perihelion> <-- @?@?!??RFG
13:44<pharaun>straterra: we are.... very sorry for you
13:44<straterra>pharaun: ON AIX
13:44<@pparadis>yeah, this is really just separate processes.
13:44<pharaun>straterra: even worse
13:44<pharaun>straterra: i've used AIX... euch
13:45<Ovron>ASM-CGI, WHO'S WITH ME?!
13:46<rouss>why havent i heard of linode before?
13:46<rouss>are you guys sure it was around back in 2003?
13:46<Ovron>there is no linode
13:46<jkwood>Most def.
13:46<hawk>The linode is a lie
13:46<straterra>But it was in caker's basement back then
13:47<Deezire_>rouss: i still ask my self the same
13:47<swaj> Record created on 26-Jan-2003.
13:47<straterra>His mom didn't let very many people news of it didnt spread very quickly
13:47<swaj> whois :P
13:47<Deezire_> has never shown up on any google results, for some reson
13:47<pharaun>taht's just google sucking more lately
13:47-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
13:47<pharaun>you can thank the SEO spammer fuckers
13:47<rouss>it's more of a rhetorical question really :D
13:48<swaj>google search sucks now. SEO spamming assholes
13:48<pharaun>exactly, btw how does bing stack up?
13:48<pharaun>i might need to switch
13:48<swaj>I'm happy so far
13:48<swaj>been using it for a few days
13:48<pharaun>issues with <product> reviews ?
13:48-!-thiago [] has joined #linode
13:48<pharaun>anything with <product> and reviews == garbage on google
13:48<swaj>no... normally I get cnet, gizmodo, engadget, etc.
13:49<swaj>techradar, arstechnica
13:49-!-Skrillex [] has joined #linode
13:49<swaj>all decent review sources
13:49<thiago>hi, I just signed up for linode, my card was billed and it's still 'pending activation'
13:49<pharaun>thats what i wanted to hear, i've been just getting garbage review sites on google
13:50*jkwood activates pparadis
13:50<swaj>I'm honestly happy with bing so far. Committed to at least try it for a week. so far, so good.
13:50<iggy>thiago: I'd say talk to one of the ops, they are linode employees
13:50<Peng>thiago: Check your email.
13:50<swaj>pparadis and Perihelion were here a minute ago :P
13:50<thiago>Pehe billing email is there
13:51<thiago>Peng only the billing email is there
13:51-!-AviMarcus [] has joined #linode
13:51<Peng>thiago: How long ago did you sign up?
13:51<thiago>Peng an hour ago +/-
13:52<swaj>sometimes accounts get flagged for review
13:52<seanh-ansca>hhmmm, unexpected press does interesting things to bandwidth usage...
13:52<Peng>thiago: Ah. probably angered the anti-fraud gods. Someone should have reviewed your signup and approved it or sent you an email by now, but they might be busy...
13:52<swaj>interesting your inbound traffic spiked
13:52<pharaun>seanh-ansca: om noms noms
13:53<@jed>that looks like a proxy
13:53<Peng>thiago: Asking here isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if it's worth emailing unless you're in a hurry, tho.
13:53<seanh-ansca>that's off a load balencer
13:53<Peng>jed: How fast are manual activations these days?
13:53-!-vermont [] has joined #linode
13:53<@jed>thiago: what username did you use
13:54<thiago>jed: troyt - I just opened a ticket though...
13:54<@jed>account activated
13:54<@jed>activation email incoming
13:55<rouss>im a joyent customer and i've submitted my "urgent" ticket 2 days ago and they still didnt reply back...
13:55<thiago>jed thanks a lot!
13:55<rouss>wtf is wrong with people
13:55<rouss>so im looking at linode
13:56<Peng>rouss: It's a known issue with the universe that not all people are as awesome as Linode.
13:56<@jed>rouss: average ticket is handled within minutes
13:56<Peng>rouss: We've filed tickets but nobody has gotten back yet.
13:56<Peng>(with the universe, I mean ..)
13:57<jkwood>The universe is trying to reply, but it's having difficulty with using emacs as its email client.
13:57<pharaun>thoughts on sqlalchemy?
13:57<hawk>jkwood: :>
13:57-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
13:57<rouss>you handle tickets on sundays and national holidays dont you
13:57<straterra>Peng: Did you file a ticket for the ultimate question?
13:58<Cromulent>pharaun: seems nice - even better that it is Python 3 compatible
13:58<@jed>pharaun: I'm using it at the moment
13:58<@jed>it beats django with a crowbar
13:58<pharaun>I've heard good things about it so was wondering, i'm used to do raw queries and doing my own ORM mapping
13:58<jkwood>I ONLY handle tickets on Sundays and national holidays. Simplifies my life.
13:58<@jed>it's a bit 'enterprise', though, whatever that means - I'm using maybe 2% of its functionality
13:58<straterra>Morgan "SQLAlchemy" Freeman
13:58<pharaun>jed: heh
13:58<@jed>all I need is table <---> objects
13:58-!-linville [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:58<jkwood>Lindoe, on the other hand, carries pagers.
13:59<pharaun><3 morgan freeman
13:59<jkwood>But they're imaginary, so Linode is the more important one to keep in mind.
13:59<pharaun>jed: ah, i probably will be ending up using a bit more of the db ability, i like to do data analysis and its sometime nice to let the db do some of the work
13:59<straterra>They should replace Gordon with Morgan.. 'It is the freeeman!' 'It was the final march of the penguins...'
13:59-!-Cromulent [] has quit [Quit: Cromulent]
14:00<duckydan>Is there a good tutorial on how to manage pointing domains to a Linode? I have it working but I am pretty sure I did it poor
14:02<pharaun>ah nice! can do raw sql statement mapping
14:02<straterra>What's wrong with raw sql?
14:02<pharaun>it is pretty much raw sql
14:02<jkwood>Nothing a little grilling can't fix.
14:02<pharaun>i was just looking at sqlalchemy to abstract away some stuff for me while keep some raw sql
14:02<duckydan>Peng: Thanks. Perfect.
14:03<d`oh>my account activation was pretty much instantly
14:03<pharaun>jkwood: i like my meat raw, fresh, still twitching, and bloody!
14:04<Peng>d`oh: Yes, it usually is.
14:04<d`oh>ye - mine was.
14:04-!-thiago [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
14:05<d`oh>so if I signed up Jan 17, my next bill is Feb 17 right?
14:05<pharaun>I'll be damned, it stopped snowing
14:05<straterra>Feb 1st
14:05<Deezire_>No, prorated to 31. jan
14:05<d`oh>are you serious?
14:05<pharaun>d`oh: its called prorating
14:05<pharaun>you'll be credited for the unused time
14:05<d`oh>which does what?
14:05<pharaun>normal billing cycle start on 1st of the month to the end of the month
14:06<d`oh>how's their crediting work?
14:06<rsdehart>d`oh: which means you'd pay for the time from now to Jan 31
14:06<rsdehart>then Feb 1 you'd pay for the month of Feb
14:06<d`oh>ok but if I'm credited how's that work?
14:06<pharaun>and henceforth on the 1st of the month
14:07<@heckman>Here's how you know you're jacked on cold medicine: You open TextEdit instead of Terminal and cannot figure out why your commands aren't running...
14:07<pharaun>as in credit to your linode account i believe
14:07-!-linville [] has joined #linode
14:07<Peng>Actually, if you sign up near the end of the month you have to pay for hte whole next month too, so people can't get a $3 node for a few days.
14:07<rsdehart>your initial bill will only be for the time used this month
14:07<rsdehart>er nm
14:08<d`oh>I'm confused..
14:08<rsdehart>the portion of your initial bill for this month will only be for time used this month
14:08<rsdehart>you won't be charged for time you weren't subscribed.
14:08<pharaun>its divided up by days
14:08<@heckman>And everyone ignored my epic story
14:08<Peng>d`oh: It's not confusing. If you sign up halfway through the month, you pay for half a month of service. Then on the first of the next month, you get a normal bill.
14:09<pharaun>heckman: because you showed a weakness you pseudoviking!
14:09<@heckman>pharaun: I took two shots of nyquil and only slept 4 hours.
14:09<Peng>heckman: See, that's a good thing. If you're too high to open the terminal, you shouldn't be using it.
14:09<@heckman>On the contrary I believe that shows strength...
14:09<pharaun>heckman: haha i've been there before, it *SUCKS*
14:09<@heckman>Dude, I tried to text and my hand was failing...haha
14:09<pharaun>passed out in a class from that -_-
14:11<@heckman>i feel fuzzy
14:11-!-seanh-ansca [] has left #linode []
14:11-!-rouss_ [] has joined #linode
14:12<d`oh>well I was charged: $28.21 for a 512
14:12<pharaun>there's a initial setup fee i think
14:12<Peng>d`oh: Right. The rest of this month + the entirety of next month.
14:12<Peng>pharaun: There is not.
14:12<@pparadis>d`oh: that is the prorated amount for the remainder of this month plus the full amount for last month.
14:12<@pparadis>there is no setup fee.
14:12<@heckman>^ what they said
14:12<Peng>pparadis: last month?
14:12<Peng>pharaun: No set-up fees.
14:12<Peng>pharaun: Ever.
14:12<pharaun>mybad, been a while since i setup my linode so i forgot :)
14:12<jkwood>The initial setup fee will be waived if you sign up RIGHT NOW.
14:12<@heckman>Uh....he means the full amount for next month
14:13<jkwood>This is a limited time offer, so hurry!
14:13<pharaun>most services has a setup fee
14:13<Peng>pharaun: There is a fee if you use "setup" as a verb, though.
14:13<d`oh>ok so, that covers all of this month.. so Feb 1, it's just $19.95?
14:13<linbot>Looking for a referral code? Use this one for free activation: dbe98bfe8cad58e02d9ea22fc98f446240edc909 (Referral docs: )
14:13<pharaun>Peng: setuping thesetupofthesetupserver!bwhahahah
14:13<@pparadis>d`oh: it covers the rest of this month and all of february.
14:13<Peng>d`oh: No, since you already paid for February, your $19.95 bill will be on March.
14:13<@pparadis>!library billing
14:13<Ovron>have you setuped it yet pharaun?
14:13<Peng>d`oh: And then April, June ...
14:13<@heckman>pparadis: \o/
14:13<linbot>pparadis: 1. Linode Billing ( - 2. Resize a Linode ( - 3. Recovering from a System Compromise (
14:13<d`oh>oh ok so, that $28.21 was for the remaining days of this month & NEXT month's?
14:13<Peng>d`oh: YEs.
14:13<@heckman>Your next invoice will be March first.
14:13<jkwood>The @caker loves when I setup him things.
14:14<d`oh>sorry, I don't know why I couldn't grasp it.. people were telling me different shot
14:14<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
14:14<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
14:14-!-cps [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15*linbot slaps jkwood
14:15<Peng>I thought the "next month" thing was only on the 20th and after, but today's the 18th...
14:15<d`oh>heckman: lol
14:15<HoopyCat>Peng: february is a short month
14:15<Peng>HoopyCat: But January isn't.
14:15<Karrde>you're a short month
14:15-!-cps [] has joined #linode
14:15<jkwood>It's shorter now than it was a week ago.
14:15<linbot>pparadis: Yo momma's so fugly even SelfishMan wouldn't touch her! (773:17/0) [mourm]
14:15<@heckman>These jokes have sucked lately pparadis...
14:15<@pparadis>heckman: lately?
14:15<@heckman>I had a good one, like 3 days ago..
14:16<@heckman>And then it creeped downhill again
14:16<@pparadis>!urmom vote up 773
14:16<linbot>pparadis: Voted up 773 [mourm]
14:16<auraka>ahh...the one?
14:16<jkwood>Sadly, input of new mom jokes has been suspended due to abuse.
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14:17<@heckman>Well, I think I am going to try to go back to sleep for a little seeing as I am the overnighter...
14:17<pharaun>those urmom jokes are just awful
14:17<jkwood>Or due to a lack of new mom jokes, which is kkind of the same thing.
14:18<hawk>jkwood: numom?
14:18-!-Cromulent [] has joined #linode
14:18<schwullo> <3
14:18<jkwood>!urmom numom
14:18<linbot>jkwood: Yo momma's so fat, she IS the global obesity crisis (816:9/0) [momur]
14:19<jkwood>!urmom vote up 816
14:19<linbot>jkwood: Voted up 816 [mmuro]
14:19<@heckman>That was actually goos
14:19<jkwood>And with that, I'm off to biology lab. If I'm lucky, they won't be attempting to dissect me again.
14:20<@heckman>Sucks, sounds like it would have been an enlightening experience.
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14:20<schwullo>there is a good answer to that joke
14:20<schwullo>tail recursion and so on
14:21-!-Dianoga [] has joined #linode
14:22*heckman boos and throws popcorn at schwullo
14:23<JasonF>yeah, cut it out
14:24<@heckman>Alright...gonna try to sleep some more
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14:24<NiftyLettuce>is there a list of available linode datacenter locations somewhere?
14:25<amitz>since february is a short month, the best course of action is to suspend linode service!
14:26<Ovron>pharaun: HP called a coworker of mine, and said there was nothing wrong with the server - before he finished the sentence, the motherboard began smoking ;p
14:27<Peng>NiftyLettuce: Or do you want ?
14:27<Peng>NiftyLettuce: Or that?
14:27<NiftyLettuce>Peng: ty
14:27<NiftyLettuce>devsforev: ty
14:28<devsforev>no problem :-)
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14:31<ssanders>i'm going to break out a can of whoopass on mysql soon if it doesnt start acting right.
14:31<pharaun>Ovron: \o/ see that thing is a cursed computer!
14:31<rlankfo>better act right
14:31<rlankfo>ssanders: whats the problem?
14:31<Ovron>pharaun: yeah ;o
14:31*pharaun yells "postgresql!" and runs
14:31-!-maushu [] has joined #linode
14:31<Ovron>all the space you'll ever need
14:32<pharaun>because she'll eat ur data
14:32<ssanders>rlankfo: maatkit tools are no longer generating the nightly query digest statistics for some ungodly reason
14:32<ssanders>postgres would be nice ;)
14:32-!-akerl [] has joined #linode
14:32<ssanders>i'd switch if i didnt have over a billion rows of data in 3 mysql servers already
14:33<Ovron>that's alotta rows
14:33<pharaun>of what? urmom?
14:33<sirpengi>yeah, it'd suck to have to type those into the new db one at a time. if only there were some way to export everything.
14:34<pharaun>sirpengi: THAT"S WHAT UNPAID INTERNS ARE FOR!
14:34<Ovron>hey, you're onto something sirpengi, I bet you could make a lot of money with that
14:34<Ovron>lets call them... migration tools
14:34<pharaun>no, let's call them... unpaid interns!
14:34<pharaun>the USA economy is in the shitter, good time to gather up the hordes of unpaid interns!
14:35<Ovron>wouldn't you consider them a tool for migrating?
14:35<ssanders>sirpengi: you should write up the logistics plan for me so i can switch to postgres without any downtime ;)
14:35<akerl>in a way, unpaid interns can be tools that migrate
14:35<pharaun>i suppose :>
14:35<pharaun>bu when i think of migration tools i think of those flithy automated tools that does the work for you
14:35<Ovron>where's the fun in that
14:36<pharaun>they're evil, you need to use our pure hearted unpaid interns, they are the best! (tm)
14:36<Ovron>I don't have interns
14:36<akerl>and automated tools cant listen to your bad jokes and bring you coffee
14:36<Ovron>but I have undergrads
14:36<pharaun>close enough :>
14:37<pharaun>we need to get this proposal STAT for ssanders to use our unpaid interns & undergrad service to migrate his db
14:37<ssanders>no doubt. i've already been waiting like 75 seconds... whats the hold-up, people...
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15:03<nosuchclient>are there any staff around?
15:03<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
15:03<linbot>The staff may or may not be around but if you tell us your problem then someone in here may be able to help
15:03<nosuchclient>thank you Peng.
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15:04-!-Megaf [] has quit [Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
15:04<nosuchclient>well, does linode welcome high-publicity, high traffic sites?
15:04<@jed>linode welcomes any site that complies with the law
15:05-!-Megaf [] has joined #linode
15:05<@jed>load is not a factor for us
15:05<nosuchclient>and more importantly, if said site is the recipient of a ddos
15:05<nosuchclient>does that count as bandwidth?
15:05<@jed>and if it begins to impact other customers, we will null route you
15:05<nosuchclient>Not nice.
15:05<@jed>what do you want us to do? let other customers suffer?
15:05<nosuchclient>This site is compliant with all applicable us laws.
15:06<nosuchclient>nothing illegal, and point taken.
15:06<nosuchclient>It would make a great backstop
15:07-!-jp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<@jed>we welcome your business, then ... just remember that if you anticipate denial of service attacks being a recurring theme, we have limits to what we can tolerate
15:07<nosuchclient>can we take this to pm?
15:08<@jed>I welcome it
15:08<Peng>Aww. :P
15:08<devsforev>there seem to be a lot of questions recently regarding DDOS attacks... are people thinking that "anonymous" is gonna target them next?
15:09<pharaun>or they are trying to support em
15:09<pharaun>the other way around
15:13<duckydan>Hi. Newbie question. My domains are registered at godaddy, and the godaddy site has dns screens similar to the ones at Which one should be configured?
15:13<sirpengi>duckydan: depends where the nameservers are
15:13<Peng>duckydan: Use whichever you prefer.
15:14<Peng>duckydan: Nothing requires you to use Linode's or GoDaddy's authoritative DNS service. Pick whatever you prefer, configure the domain to use it, and configure your DNS records at whatever DNS host you chose.
15:14<duckydan>Should I make them the same? Like the @ and mail entries?
15:15<sirpengi>duckydan: what are the nameservers currently?
15:15<devsforev>duckydan: i prefer linodes DNS manager out of convinence. I also think that GoDaddy's UI is hideous... again that's just my prefernce... do what you prefer
15:15<Peng>duckydan: What name servers are your domain set to use?
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15:16<mwalling>devsforev: they dont need to be the same. if you're not going to use the linode dns, you dont need to change the linode dns. if you're not going to use the godaddy dns,...
15:16<mwalling>er, duckydan ^^
15:18<duckydan>Peng: I like the linode screens way better. Easier to edit. So I was going to set the name servers to etc.
15:18<mwalling>ok, then once you do that, you can ignore the godaddy dns screens
15:18<duckydan>But they both seem to have different data showing.
15:18<Peng>duckydan: Configure whichever data is correct.
15:19<sirpengi>duckydan: the data doesn't make any difference. those only matter for their respective nameservers
15:19<sirpengi>duckydan: if you set the nameservers to godaddy's, whatever is put in at the godaddy form would apply. if you nameservers were at linode, whatever you put in the linode forms would apply
15:19<sirpengi>if you nameservers are somewhere else totally, neither of those make any difference
15:20<sirpengi>duckydan: I'll ask one last time: where are the nameservers currently?
15:21<duckydan>sirpengi: I went to godaddy and set them to be the linode servers.
15:22<duckydan>sirpengi: Does that answer he question. I don't know anywhere else to change them.
15:22<auraka>jed: what if YOUR linode gets ddos'ed three you get canned?
15:22<straterra>jed's paycheck gets nullrouted
15:23<sirpengi>duckydan: I'm just asking because if they *were* set to godaddy, and you'd like all the records to behave like you used to, then you'll need to update the lindoe records to match the godaddy ones
15:23<akerl>duckydan: the easiest way (in my experience) is to go onto godaddy and set your domains to point to etc, and then go to the linode manager and setup your actual dns records there
15:23<auraka>$jedspaycheck > /dev/auraka
15:24<duckydan>akerl: Excellent! My plan exactly.
15:24<pharaun>ns1-5 fyi
15:25<duckydan>pharaun: Thanks.
15:25<maushu>Anyone ever did PCI-Compliant tests on linode?
15:26<auraka>maushu: ummm...really?
15:26<straterra>Nah, but they're ISA compliant
15:26<straterra>Almost USB compliant too
15:26<pharaun>i thought their pci-e compliant?
15:26<pharaun>considering their holyshitsofast speeds
15:26<auraka>straterra: I thought the USB compliance was the backup system?
15:27<straterra>Universal Serial Backups
15:27<auraka>maushu: Have you read the PCI standard?
15:27<mwalling>maushu: i've heard of it
15:27<maushu>Level 4 and level 3.
15:27<pharaun>I think most of us have heard of it but isn't the burden *on* the people who implement stuff that needs to meet the pci standard
15:27<maushu>I came to the conclusion that if the user doesn't save credit card numbers, stuff should be okay but I'm not sure.
15:28<auraka>So....are you asking if linode had tried to become pci compliant...or if users have checked them out for pci compliance?
15:28<jameswilson>didnt know there were actual 'tests' made for PCI compliance, to my knowledge its just ensuring your application stores things in an encrypted manner, no?
15:28<maushu>auraka, pretty much.
15:28<maushu>Both, that is.
15:28<auraka>question answered :)
15:28<@pparadis>maushu: PCI compliance is the customer's responsibility.
15:28<mDuff>I've got a customer asking about physical security constraints re: our datacenter. Given as we're hosted in linode's Dallas DC... anyone have a ready answer available (or a pointer to the folks who run the place, so I can get it off their site)?
15:28<auraka>pparadis: eh...not all the day
15:28<maushu>pparadis, hmmm. What about physical security of the servers?
15:29<akerl>maushu: iirc, the consensus was that while Linode (the company) is PCI compliant, noone actually using a linode can be PCI compliant, because you cant control physical access to the medium. even if you don't save information, just having it in memory is an issue
15:29<rlankfo>we run a custom billing module integrated with's API on linode, it is PCI compliant
15:29<@pparadis>array: yes, all the day. we can give you basic information about DC security, but the rest is entirely up to the customer.
15:29<@pparadis>auraka, rather ^
15:29<auraka>maushu: if you want to use a pci compliant cloud go to Amazon
15:29<mDuff>pparadis, where do I go to get that basic information about DC security? :)
15:30<@pparadis>auraka: what? we've got plenty of customers using Linodes for that.
15:30<maushu>Amazon is evil. They sacrifice bunnies to the dark gods.
15:30<pharaun>er how is amazon pci comp when linode isn't 0_o
15:30<straterra><3 S3
15:30<@tasaro>mDuff: send an e-mail to
15:30<auraka>pparadis: thats not true....your management interface has to be pci compliant as well...etc.
15:30<pharaun>well not "isn't" but due of the hardware/memory thing
15:30<maushu>The management interface is ssh. I believe.
15:31<maushu>At least in this context.
15:31<@pparadis>auraka: what, again? that is entirely up to the customer. we provide a server and a facility that houses it. as tom said, if you want good info on this, email
15:31<straterra>tasaro: WE SHARE NAMES
15:31<maushu>The whole PCI business could be resumed to "Don't be stupid."
15:32*iggy agrees with maushu
15:32<auraka>I'm not asking you for info...I'm telling you for a customer to be PCI compliant they may also look at your infrastructure
15:32<pharaun>but sadly people often are stupid, hence the need of PCI but
15:33<maushu>I think it was just created because some companies decided to save credit card numbers in unecrypted shared text files.
15:33<pharaun>i haven't worked in an industry that had the PCI/sox/etc.... so i can't really say anything
15:33<maushu>What pharaun said.
15:33<@pparadis>auraka: and again, i'll repeat myself. we've got numerous customers who have successfully gone through that process with the DC-infra information we've given them.
15:33<maushu>pparadis, that is what I wanted to hear.
15:33<pharaun>so you actually need to perform audits?
15:34<maushu>For every case. Obviously.
15:34<auraka>they fudged the audit or are not truly storing credit cards..
15:34<@pparadis>sigh. this is exactly why there are so many small companies out there that handle the whole PCI compliance deal.
15:34<@pparadis>auraka: who fudged what audit?
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15:35<h3lix>pparadis: is it true there's no way to move a linode between accounts?
15:36<h3lix>keeping the same IP address and such
15:36<@pparadis>h3lix: sure there is, just open a ticket on both accounts to confirm it.
15:36<h3lix>yeah, that's what I thought
15:36<h3lix>'ericoc' just told me in a support ticket that i'm out of luck
15:36<akerl>I'm not sure how any amount of info on the DC can get someone using a linode successful PCI compliance. Since you don't control physical access to the medium, someone other than you (ie linode) has access to the server, and so the only way to store information on the server without someone physically at the machine being able to access it is to store it in such a way that the server itself...
15:36<akerl>...cant use it
15:37<straterra>akerl: That's why you use FS encryption
15:37<auraka>pparadis: I'll just say go read the PCI DSS stuff
15:37<@pparadis>akerl: not true. again, many customers have got through it successfully.
15:37<@caker>akerl: that's an impossible intrepretation of the requirements -- where do you see that?
15:37<straterra>If you do that..Linode can't access the data
15:37<@pparadis>auraka: i have, and you're full of crap.
15:38<auraka>whats full of crap?
15:38*pparadis declines to engage and further
15:38<auraka>Secure and synchronize router 1.2.2
15:38<auraka>configuration files.
15:38<@pparadis>any, rather
15:38<auraka>how does one do that on a linode
15:38<akerl>caker: i havent. i'm working from a general understanding based on reading past discussions on the feasibility of PCI on vps's
15:39<auraka>again....this is why Amazon got their environment PCI compliant
15:41<auraka>if you are talking level 4 pci then yes you could do it....but no cardholder data would be allowed to be stored
15:41<straterra> <--- Awww yeah
15:42<akerl>straterra: wicked. Did you make the background?
15:42<duckydan>I found it humorous that I worked on SOX compliance reports in google docs or VPNing into a corporate network using shared domain accounts.
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15:43<Ovron>straterra: how very... psychohypnotic :p
15:44<straterra>akerl: Nah. My ex makes fractal wallpaper..I remembered the term, googled it..found that
15:47<pharaun>straterra: nice
15:47<@caker>anyhow, it's totally possible to get PCI certified on a Linode. period. :)
15:48<straterra>caker: how does one setup that?
15:48*straterra hides
15:48<@caker>Linode is itself PCI compliant and most of our stuff runs on Linodes (if that matters), and we're not the only ones with access to our hardware (dc techs, etc) either, so that whole argument is BS. I know of many customers who passed PCI compliance testing
15:51<maushu>What about london?
15:53<Ovron>it is in England
15:53<akerl>ovron: that's just what they want you to think
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15:54<AviMarcus>I'm in the london location. Nice and fast.
15:54<AviMarcus>or rather, my linode vps is there
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15:57<DephNet[Paul]>akerl, with regards to PCI compliance, I know someone who was "PCI Compliant" on shared hosting, god knows how he did it
15:57<ssanders>what level of pci compliance?
15:57<DephNet[Paul]>probably the most basic
15:57<Peng>DephNet[Paul]: Maybe he did it by lying.
15:58-!-Guest725 [] has quit []
15:58<DephNet[Paul]>Peng, probably, but he was only using them for 2 months, then he co-located his own server with BlueSquare
15:58<ssanders>i dont think it would be possible to pass level 1 pci dss on linode.
15:58-!-WoodWork_ [] has joined #linode
15:58<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, why not?
15:59<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: the phys requirements
15:59<DephNet[Paul]>what are the levels actually?
15:59<@heckman>ssanders: did you not see what caker said?
16:00<ssanders>heckman: i did
16:00<DephNet[Paul]>Linode are PCI compliant, and their stuff runs on a linode
16:00<ssanders>heckman: how do you pass section 9.1 of pci dss at linode?
16:00<ssanders>9.1.1 Verify that video cameras monitor the entry/exit points of data centers where cardholder data is stored or present. Video cameras should be internal to the data center or otherwise protected from tampering or disabling. Verify that cameras are monitored and that data from cameras is stored for at least three months
16:00<DephNet[Paul]>so why cant I, for example, become PCI compliant on a linode
16:01<straterra>ssanders: It's a legit likely have those things
16:01<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, check the DC they use ;)
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16:01<DephNet[Paul]>straterra, and if they dont, they are chuffing morons, and deserve to be done over
16:01<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: straterra: i'm familiar witht he planet, but my access is resold through linode. how can i prove to the auditors that i have access to the camera footage?
16:02<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, you dont, and I dont think Linode will either
16:02<@caker>where does it say you have to be in control of the cameras/footage?
16:02<ssanders>i'm playing devil's advocate here. i'd be very interested in how to pull off level 1 pci dss on linode
16:02<ssanders>caker: section 9.1.1
16:02<DephNet[Paul]>but all you need to show is they ARE there, and they ARE monitored
16:03<ssanders>caker: clearly linode can, since they control the infrastructure. but i'm at a loss to see how a linode client could pass the audit
16:03<schwullo>anyone who doesn't run their own server farm cannot prove that
16:03<@caker>ssanders: what makes us any different?
16:03<ssanders>caker: you pay the DC bills? and have badges to enter the facility
16:03<ssanders>i dont
16:03<AviMarcus>uh isn't linode in other people's data centers?
16:03<sirpengi>ssanders: you basically go, my software stack is compliant, my host is compliant, the dc is compliant. it's like turtles
16:03<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, Linode are a client of the DC, I have NEVER seen a DC provide remote access to a CCTV feed
16:03<AviMarcus>like turtles?
16:04<ssanders>you don't have to have remote access to the feed
16:04<Ovron>I like turtles
16:04<@heckman>me too
16:04<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, like I said, you just need to show they are there, and they are monitored
16:04<ssanders>its a paperwork game more than anything else, i'm just confused how to pass some of the requirements using linode
16:04<AviMarcus>"it's like turtles" - what does that mean, sirpengi ?
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16:05<sirpengi>I'm not sure what else it could mean
16:05<sirpengi>that's the simplest I can put it
16:05<ssanders>sirpengi: plus the annual onsite audit, and quarterly remote audits
16:05<straterra>AviMarcus: things move slowly and when things look bad, you hide in your shell and pretend the world doesn't exist :O
16:05<auraka>sirpengi: last I checked theplanet isn't pci compliant
16:05<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, send an email to legal@linode, see if they will send you a PDF of their compliance cert, and then all you need to do is get a cert for your software stack
16:05<DephNet[Paul]>that is if caker will give out their cert
16:05<auraka>There is a reason why Amazon went and got Level 1 compliant
16:05<AviMarcus>uh k :P
16:06<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: i dont think thats how it works. i can ask the auditors when they arrive in april to reaudit my cages though
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16:07<DephNet[Paul]>wouldnt it just be, as someone said before, proving your software stack is compliant, proving your host is compliant and the DC you are in is compliant
16:07<pharaun>sirpengi: turtles all the way down!
16:07<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: it is not that simple
16:08<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, why not?
16:08<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: haha, i dont know =) i didnt make the rules
16:09<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, perhaps someone with brains, and common sense, should have made the rules then :P
16:09<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: no way. then it wouldn't be a money making racket for the pci cetification companies. the jist of it is "don't be an idiot, and prove that you arent"
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16:10<ssanders>but section 9 is all about physical requirements. which would be tricky, if not impossible, on a virtual host
16:10<AviMarcus>awesome pharaun that's what I wanted to hear.
16:10<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, where is a link to the "rules"
16:10<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, ta
16:11<jkwood>Poor the @caker.
16:11<schwullo>ssanders: url to section 9?
16:12<ssanders>schwullo: let me look. i just have the paper docs
16:12<priyesh>I've got a question. When using sudo <command> should I be asked for a password every time?
16:12<pharaun>on first auth and it keeps it for X amount of time usually
16:13<schwullo>priyesh: man sudo
16:13<bob2>priyesh: no
16:13<@heckman>be a pro type this: sudo su
16:13<pharaun>then after x amount of time it'll ask again but it depends on config
16:13<DephNet[Paul]>priyesh, i think the os caches your password for 5 minutes, after your last sudo
16:13<@heckman>type: sudo su
16:13<bob2>heckman: sudo -s
16:13<priyesh>how do i change that amount of time?
16:13<jkwood>I prefer sudo su - sudo ${whoami}
16:13<ssanders>schwullo: the site won't let you download the specs without an agreement on file
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16:14<schwullo>ssanders: lol
16:14<priyesh>just did man sudo and found out that it is 15 minutes
16:14<priyesh>thanks all!
16:14<@heckman>sudo make me a sandwich
16:14<pharaun>ssanders: ok and how do you put in an agreement on file? to WHAT? that you will give the org all of your money
16:14<schwullo>i wonder if it's a scam
16:14<schwullo>"OMG OMG I gotta get my PCI compliance!"
16:14<jkwood>Poof, you're a salami on rye.
16:15<ssanders>schwullo: if you want to process and store credit cards, its required.
16:15<bob2>ssanders: don't forget your AV software
16:15<schwullo>depends where you live.
16:15<DephNet[Paul]>pharaun, they give you the license agreement, and there is an "agree" button at the bottom
16:15<ssanders>"in the US"
16:15<straterra>How to tell your coworkers are fail, lesson 57 : They don't know the difference between a batch script and a bash script, and use the terms interchangeably
16:15-!-Perihelion is now known as folson
16:15<straterra>folson: NINJA
16:15<schwullo>ssanders: :D
16:15<schwullo>straterra: i mean
16:16<straterra>I always knew your name was frank olson
16:16<priyesh>how do I list all the users and groups on my system?
16:16<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: oh those, i hate em
16:16<@folson>straterra: loldongs
16:16<ssanders>schwullo: look at the wikipedia pages
16:16<schwullo>priyesh: sudo rm -rf *
16:16-!-WoodWork_ [] has joined #linode
16:16<schwullo>priyesh: just kiddin'
16:16<Ovron>is linode PCI-E compliant? ;o
16:16<priyesh>schwullo: not falling for that!
16:16<bob2>priyesh: FN=: awk '{print $1}' /etc/passwd
16:17<DephNet[Paul]>schwullo, course it is, I tried to get a merchant account for my business, and Lloyds, the bank I use, turned around and said I *HAVE* to use a certain "Lloyds Approved" assessor for my PCI compliance
16:17-!-heckman is now known as heckmn
16:17<ssanders>looks like you could probbly get levels 2-4 on a VPS, possibly 1 depending on the autditing compnay
16:17<schwullo>DephNet[Paul]: ha ha
16:17<auraka>ssanders: ?
16:17<DephNet[Paul]>the assessor they approved was part of Lloyds Banking Group, and they were charging 4 or 5 times more than the competition
16:17<bob2>oops, awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd /etc/group
16:18<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: nice
16:18<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: *not*
16:18<bob2>to be fair, RBS WorldPay probably had passed a PCI audit
16:18<auraka>ssanders: Amazon is PCI DSS - Level 1 compliant today on their AWS
16:18<DephNet[Paul]>needless to say, I told them to sod off
16:21<auraka>now....just because you use Amazon doesn't make you PCI compliant heh
16:22-!-Carl [~Carl@adsl-83-100-186-191.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:24<pharaun>yeeess! finally figured out how to setup a per test suite setup/teardown!
16:24<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: so now how do you do your.... money/payment, i thought you need a merchant account
16:24-!-WoodWork_ is now known as woodwork
16:24-!-woodwork is now known as WoodWork
16:25<Ovron>did you get it well-setupped?
16:27<pharaun>Ovron: indeed i did, but seriously if we are not supposed to use setup as a verb then what do we use
16:27<ssanders>auraka: i know this. but linode isn't on the list of pci certified service providers, so to get certification their netowrk you'd have to pass the audit yourself instead of riding on someone elses certs for the physical requirements
16:28<ssanders>caker, or any staff, please correct me if i'm wrong
16:28<Ovron>pharaun: set up
16:28<Ovron>you set it up
16:28<Ovron>you set up the setup
16:28<pharaun>Ovron: oh, that simple? lulz doh
16:28<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: yeah. thats how the pci game works. ain't it a bitch?
16:29<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: try getting level 1 ;)
16:29<DephNet[Paul]>pharaun, I use Paypal, Cheque or cash
16:29<pharaun>Ovron: i set up the setup service!
16:29<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: aha gotcha, that does sound like a bitch about the whole lloyd's stuff -_-
16:29<Ovron>set up the setup that will set up the setup services for setups?
16:29<bob2>pharaun: setUpClass?
16:29-!-akerl [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]]
16:29<pharaun>Ovron: sort of :)
16:30<DephNet[Paul]>ssanders, I would get someone else in to sort my infrastructure out for PCI-DSS
16:30<pharaun>bob2: oh the problem is not sure about junit 4.0 but
16:30<jkwood>This whole thing stinks of a setup.
16:30*jkwood wins
16:30<bob2>pharaun: oh java
16:30<Ovron>this is a stickup, give me your setups
16:30<bob2>pharaun: condolences ;)
16:30<ssanders>DephNet[Paul]: yeah. thats pretty much what i do as a full time job ;)
16:30<pharaun>bob2: i'm using junit 3.8 and i couldn't find a good way to do single.... config on a per suite basis, so i hacked it in via nested unit tests and i was able to make it work :)
16:31-!-AviMarcus [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:31<Ovron>what are these test suits you're talking about, it sounds very corporate!
16:31<pharaun>problem is i can't really mock/etc cos bunch of the code depends on config that is being read in, hence... and those fucktards are singletons so i needed a way to hack/modify it for each batch of tests ugh
16:31<pharaun><--- work
16:31-!-folson is now known as Perihelion
16:31<DephNet[Paul]>pharaun, I tried getting a loan from them just before xmas, they said "sure, we will give you a loan, but you have to give us 75% up front in 'security and fees', but we will charge you interest on 100% of the amount"
16:31-!-heckmn is now known as heckman
16:31<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: hahah yes i remembered *THAT* one
16:31<pharaun>so why do you persist in staying with those folks ?
16:32<pharaun>or is this just a general "screw small business" thing
16:32<DephNet[Paul]>pharaun, its a general screw small business thing
16:32<Ovron>this is when you dress up 7 of your mates in black suites, give them briefcases, and you storm into their office.
16:33<DephNet[Paul]>they then tried to tell me, they would drop the 75% security, if I had more money moving through my business account
16:33<DephNet[Paul]>which is why I want the loan, so I can expand
16:34<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: figures, yeah... Nothing you can do about it?
16:34<DephNet[Paul]>but, then again, thats what you get when the taxpayer owns 85% of the institution
16:34<pharaun>start up a group of 300 small business owners and go spartaaaaaa on their asses!
16:34<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: taxpayer, as in your government owns it ?
16:35<Ovron>he's in the UK, he'd get arrested on anti-terrorism act counts ;p
16:35<DephNet[Paul]>pharaun, yeah, they pumped in over 800 BILLION quid, a couple years back, to stop the banking sector imploding
16:36<pharaun>Ovron: and how is that different from the good ol' US? :-p
16:36<pharaun>DephNet[Paul]: oh right, you guys were affected too.
16:36<Ovron>pharaun: I don't know, thankfully I'm not in the US ;p
16:36<pharaun>Ovron: oh snap, burn!
16:36<DephNet[Paul]>Ovron, you jest, but I was stopped in town the other day, and threatened with arrest under anti terrorism laws, do you know what my crime was
16:37<Ovron>DephNet[Paul]: did you happen to have a camera?
16:37<jkwood>Being ridiculously good-looking?
16:37<sirpengi>it's only a crime if it's a DSLR camera
16:37<sirpengi>because only terrorists carry DSLRs
16:37<DephNet[Paul]>Ovron, yes, I took a photo of a cop car parked on double yellows
16:37<pharaun>scary accurate
16:38<pharaun>I think there's more and more of that shit going on here also in regards of camera, i don't like it. I'm not a pro-photographer but i do have a DSLR/etc
16:38<Ovron>DephNet[Paul]: heh... a friend, visiting london, from some smaller village up north in the UK, got threatened to pieces as well, having photographed a public museum building...
16:38<DephNet[Paul]>they tried to get me to delete the pic, which they are not allowed to do
16:38<sirpengi>you should've used your iphone to take the picture. terrorists don't use iphones
16:38<straterra>Sure they do..but only the ones that wear turtle necks
16:39<pharaun>but the iphone aint good enough quality, no raws, and all of that :-p
16:39<sirpengi>I smell a terrorist in our midst
16:39*pharaun hides
16:39<Ovron>how very xenophobic
16:40<DephNet[Paul]>Ovron, yeah, I have a friend that took my local plod to court, false arrest, assault and criminal damage
16:40<straterra>Take that in jest, of course
16:40<jkwood>I'm pretty sure that was Steve Jobs' last MacWorld speech opener.
16:40*devsforev waits for BOOM
16:42*Ovron setups a boom
16:42<DephNet[Paul]>boom from whom?
16:42<@heckman>price check on aisle BOOM!
16:43-!-ktabic_ [] has quit [Quit: I'm a professionally trainined computer scientist. That is to say, I am poorly educated]
16:44<Ovron>was it illegal to take photographs of police officers in england, before all this anti-terrorism laws spun up?
16:45-!-jluna [] has joined #linode
16:45<@heckman>Reminds me of those videos online of the guy who trolls police in NYC.
16:45<@heckman>He pulls out his video camera and attempts to interview them when they park illegally
16:45<jluna>Hello. I'm currently a slicehost customer.
16:46<jkwood>My condolences.
16:46<Ovron>My condolences
16:46<@caker>hello, jluna
16:46<jluna>I wouldlike to add disk space ot my plan, but slicehost doesn't offer this ability.
16:46<Ovron>jkwood: hifive
16:46<jluna>It wasn't clear to me)
16:46<jluna>Using a web based client, it's not very good.
16:46<jluna>IRC client)
16:46-!-vcardoso [] has joined #linode
16:46<jluna>Anywho, is this possible with linode? It wasn't clear to me from the main page.
16:46<Dianoga>jluna: yep
16:47<linbot>Available extras: Disk: $ 2 per 1GB/month. RAM: $ 5 per 90MB/month. Transfer: $ 10 per 100GB/month. IP addresses: $ 1 per address/month. To add extras, visit the Extras tab on a Linode.
16:47<pharaun>you can add extras, but the general recommendation is to upgrade
16:47<@caker>jluna: you can add "extras" to your Linode (disk space, transfer, ips, etc) - but it's more economical to just upgrade the plan in the long run
16:47<jluna>Does the $2/GB/month include the backup cost for the additional space?
16:48-!-JamesChevalier [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:48-!-JamesChevalier [] has joined #linode
16:48<@caker>jluna: if you have backups enabled, yes
16:48-!-maxo [] has joined #linode
16:48<jluna>My messages keep getting lost.
16:49<@caker>16:47 < jluna> Does the $2/GB/month include the backup cost for the additional space?
16:49<@caker>16:48 <@caker> jluna: if you have backups enabled, yes
16:49<@caker>see those? :)
16:49<Peng>jluna: You can use a non-crappy IRC client if you want to, you know.
16:49<jluna>Anyhow, it appears to be about the same as slicehost. Not very economical to pay just for disk space.
16:49<maxo>is there any article for setting up own namservers using powerdns on linode?
16:50<jluna>Peng: I'm aware.
16:50-!-iwillig [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:50<jluna>Thanks for the help everyone.
16:50<straterra>jluna: if you need low-speed storage, couple a Linode with S3
16:50<straterra>That's what I do for my backups..S3 is VERY economical
16:50-!-jluna2 [] has joined #linode
16:50<Peng>!library powerdns
16:51<jluna2>Thanks for the suggestion about S3, but we're dealing with version controlled data.
16:51<Peng>maxo: I know several of us use NSD, and I think there's even a library article for it.
16:51<jluna2>i.e., we're using SVN
16:51<StevenK>straterra: Same, tis awesome
16:51<Peng>maxo: Other than that, any general PowerDNS guide should be fine, no?
16:51<jluna2>Anywho, thanks again.
16:51<maxo>Peng: Thank you. I have seen the NSD one, but could not find PowerDNS. Yes any powerdns guide would be fine
16:51<jkwood>Shouldn't it work with SVN?
16:51<Peng>jluna: Disk space is a weakness of both Slicehost and Linode. Good luck, though.
16:54-!-rajesh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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16:55-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
16:55<pharaun>could use s3fs but dunno how well that would work with svn :-p
16:56-!-jluna2 [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
17:01-!-JSharp [] has joined #linode
17:01-!-stitch [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:02<ssanders>why not just use github, no storage limit there afaik
17:03<Ovron>I personally prefer having my repositories self-hosted.
17:04<sirpengi>I don't bother with self-hosting repos anymore
17:04<Ovron>I bet there's plenty that feel the same
17:04<sirpengi>I used to back when it was svn
17:05<path>maxo: i've setup pdns.. it was very straightforward.. i think the INSTALL file was all that was needed
17:05<ssanders>Ovron: i'm with you
17:06<WoodWork>Anyone know any good free andriod IRC clients that support BNC's?
17:06<jkwood>I just use Connectbot to ssh in to my Linode, where I run irssi in screen.
17:06<Ovron>connectbot -> screen -> irssi <3
17:07*jkwood peers over his shoulder due to suspicion he'll find Ovron lurking there
17:07*Ovron hides
17:08<Ovron>my long lost twin brother that I didn't even know that I had???
17:08<ssanders>i guess i'd be the black sheep since i use tmux :P
17:08<jkwood>For your sake, I hope not.
17:08<sirpengi>ssanders: nah, I'm a tmux fan here as well
17:08<Ovron>you can be black sheep together <3
17:09<@heckman>I love my vhost... =]
17:10<d`oh>ahh I'm ready to get off
17:10<Ovron>reporting heckman to the KGB
17:10<@heckman>d`oh: that's what she said
17:10<Ovron>oh snap
17:10<JshWright>I like the irssi version of connectbot
17:10<d`oh>oh did she now
17:10<@heckman>afk shower
17:10<Deezire_>ConnectBot in general rock's <insert other mobile OS> ass
17:11<Ovron>ah yeah, I have that one as well - although I rarely chat using my phone, just log in via ssh, and bring it up for a sec to see if there's any queries
17:11<WoodWork>There's one I found, with BNC access £3.00 ;O
17:11<Deezire_>bnc, who even use that?
17:12<WoodWork>BNC/ZNC. =] I prefer going through my own IRC client to be honest.
17:12<Deezire_>i prefer irssi in screen
17:12<@Perihelion>I do both?
17:12<@Perihelion>I'm using irssi in screen but i connected to ZNC
17:12<pharaun>good android irc?
17:13<@Perihelion>android IRC is good
17:13<@Perihelion>That's the name of the client
17:13<@Perihelion>It looks irssi-ish
17:13-!-maxo [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
17:13<WoodWork>Ah cool!
17:13<WoodWork>I shall buy that when I get some credit. =D
17:14<WoodWork>Thanks guys!
17:14<@Perihelion>theres a free version too
17:14<@Perihelion>Or...there used to be
17:14<pharaun>oh that thing looks nice
17:15-!-afolson [~afolson@] has joined #linode
17:15<afolson>yay me
17:15-!-afolson is now known as Guest729
17:16-!-Guest729 [~afolson@] has quit []
17:16<jkwood>Dutch Rage?
17:18<pharaun>how do i make sure something is 100% dead in the JVM? :[
17:19<jkwood>It's the JVM. It's kind of expected that there are 100% dead things in there.
17:20<pharaun>hehe, touche, but what i mean is i am having trouble with a singleton that keeps on somehow resurrecting itself even after i tell it to GTFO and null it
17:21-!-redgore_ [~redgore@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:22-!-synapt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22<pharaun>oh god
17:22<pharaun>more singletons to kill
17:22-!-RiverRat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22-!-synapt [] has joined #linode
17:22-!-anydoubt [~anydoubt@] has joined #linode
17:24-!-mparadise [] has joined #linode
17:24<jkwood>No doubt here.
17:25<mparadise>hi all - I had a quick question. I have just rec'd a request tofax license and cc info over to get my account activated. how long does that usually take after it's sent? I'm in a bit of an emergency - I need to get my site online after my prior host folded with no notice
17:26<@Perihelion>Can you PM me the account name you used?
17:26<mparadise> if it will take more than a few minutes after faxing (it's alrewady been several hours since I signed up) I need to go elsewhere unfortunately
17:26<mparadise>sure Perihelion
17:26-!-Terry [] has joined #linode
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17:27-!-tbarrett [] has joined #linode
17:27-!-tbarrett [] has quit []
17:28<robinetd>Heh. He didn't stay long.
17:29<jkwood>Sometimes, you just have to drop in to say hi for a second. Literally.
17:33-!-linville [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:35-!-gibbet [~gibbet@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:38<pharaun>used reflection to reach in and whack the damn thing, i think i got the singleton to die and stay dead
17:41<pharaun>oh great it didn't work
17:42*Perihelion pokes Nivex
17:43-!-cps [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:45-!-hipsterslapfight [] has quit [Quit: hipsterslapfight]
17:46<Craighton>I'm looking to setup a hosting enviroment so that I can have a couple of friends use webspace on my VPS, is there an easy management tool or something so that they can use a control panel for mysql access and hosting acess?
17:47<Gnewt>Is there a staff around?
17:47-!-hipsterslapfight [] has joined #linode
17:47<Gnewt>My friend has a Linode listed in the Newark facility but it looks like it's actually in NJ
17:47<linbot>If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out.
17:48<linbot>New news from forums: Gaping insecurity in CentOS 5.5 32-bit and maybe others in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
17:48<Gnewt> < where is this?
17:48<sirpengi>isn't Newark in NJ?
17:48<deejoe>Gnewt: Newark *is* in New J . . .
17:48<Gnewt>I mean Fremont
17:48<deejoe>haha, ok
17:49<Craighton>Gnewt, it is really in Newark, but because of the traceback data it is probably looking at the Linode offices which is in NJ
17:49<Gnewt>you mean Fremont?
17:49<Gnewt>How odd
17:49<Craighton>I had that question when I saw my Texas server in NJ
17:49<Craighton>it is how the WHOIS service looks up the IP
17:49<Gnewt>So GeoIP doesn't work that well, does it?
17:50<Craighton>Gnewt some services will see it in Fremont
17:50<sirpengi>I dunno, when I do a mtr trace it goes through
17:50<Peng>Gnewt: Geolocation is imperfect.
17:50<Peng>Gnewt: Do something like a traceroute to see where an IP really is.
17:51<robinetd>First person to tell me what kind of a hat this is gets uh.. kudos.
17:51<robinetd>I want one. :O
17:51<Gnewt>Does traceroute have to be enabled in the dest firewall?
17:52<sirpengi>to me it seems like is in fremont
17:52<Gnewt>good stuff
17:52-!-cps [] has joined #linode
17:53<Gnewt>But can anybody successfully traceroute it?
17:53<Gnewt>I think his firewall is borken
17:53<Peng>Gnewt: Some ISPs firewall traceroute packets.
17:53-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
17:53<Peng>Also, if you want to check where a Linode is, you can log into the manager.
17:53<Gnewt>I'm tracing from my Fremont Linode
17:54-!-jkwood [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:58<sirpengi>where does your friend *want* their linode to be?
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18:02-!-jamie is now known as Guest735
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18:03<linbot>New news from forums: Best practice for live backup? in General Discussion <>
18:03<ejp>pfft, backup.
18:04-!-mimoose [] has joined #linode
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18:11<mimoose>hello, I am trying again to learn this vps thing. back in december, i went on fiverr and paid this dude five buck to install nginx on my server so i can run drupal. and he did just that, very straight forward. just what i wanted. I was so desperate to see something, i had him do it, but as you can imagine, the only problem with having him do that is I still dont understand what, why and how he did it. also I need to install aegir so
18:12-!-vraa_ [] has joined #linode
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18:13<duckydan>You paid $5 to someone to do something on your server. Man, id never let anyone on my server who would work for $5.
18:14<mimoose>there was nothing on it and i changed the pw
18:14<BarkerJr>is still only in dallas?
18:14<DephNet[Paul]>mimoose, google is your friend
18:14<warren>BarkerJr: I don't see Tehran and Pyongyang datacenters listed though.
18:14<BarkerJr>warren: that doesn't answer my question :)
18:14-!-warewolf [] has joined #linode
18:14<warren>BarkerJr: (no)
18:15<Ovron>(he probably means the website of linode,
18:15<duckydan>mimoose: Meanwhile he created 10 admin accounts and your server is now filled with porn. ;P
18:15<BarkerJr>I'm wondering is the network issue yesterday impacted linode manager and forums and such
18:16<Peng>BarkerJr: Yes, it did.
18:16<Peng>BarkerJr: ...Presumably. I think.
18:16<Peng>BarkerJr: Dallas network issues do indeed cause problems for
18:17<Boohemian>bob2: you still here?
18:17-!-vraa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:23<ssanders>duckydan: like this guy?
18:29<linbot>New news from forums: Running a site with free hosting / email in Sales Questions and Answers <>
18:30<BarkerJr>why would you buy microsoft software from a vendor?
18:31<BarkerJr>buy it from microsoft
18:31<Boohemian>bob2: sorry i fell asleep this mornign, it wasn't cutoff... lemme repaste
18:31*encode buys it from ebay
18:31<Boohemian>can anyone tell me if this is a decent computer for the $399 price tag (newegg has it on sale). i am most worried about the pentium dual core processor. i am looking to buy two laptops to replace two macbook pro's i am selling. one under $500, the other 600-1100 (i was going to purchase the thinkpad T410 the other night but the screen is absolute shit according to anandtech, so i am still looking
18:31<Boohemian>i don't need the best screen out there, but i don't want the worst screen out their in its class either, especially when it's on the high end of what i want to pay
18:32<BarkerJr>encode: then you can be sure it's pirated
18:32<encode>BarkerJr: sorry, left out the sarcasm tags
18:32<Boohemian>i just need it for light computing, i guess. i would run arch with X11 (openbox). it will be for my gf to use. she'll use it for facebook, flash, vlc mkv movies (720p)
18:34<encode>why are you computing light?
18:34<HIghoS>BarkerJr: I thought you can't buy direct anymore?
18:34<encode>it's easier just to turn the light switch on
18:34<HIghoS>I'm not really an MS guy per se, but I remenber hearing several conversations about such in recent history.
18:35-!-tehzomb [] has joined #linode
18:35*akerl wishes he could give anyone he knows an arch computer without answering a million tech questions
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18:40<ssanders>BarkerJr: the point is the guy doing the purchasing was running the company he purchased from.
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19:36<robinetd>C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
19:37<dominikh>robinetd: now they gonna hate u
19:37<robinetd>dominikh: That's okay. They're social misfits anyways. Except perihelion. He's hawt.
19:37<dominikh>yeah, he so is
19:37*stan_theman slinks away
19:37*robinetd hugs stan_theman.
19:37*stan_theman slinks back
19:38<compywiz>you don't have to be nice to him, he's not even op =o
19:38-!-jxpx777 [] has quit [Quit: Be back later]
19:38<robinetd>compywiz: More friends you have the better. <3
19:38<dominikh>friends suck :<
19:38<dominikh>except for the female ones
19:38<dominikh>they never do :<
19:39<robinetd>This sounds like an inuendo if ever I saw one.
19:39-!-mac-mini_ [] has joined #linode
19:39<dominikh>innuendo, but yeah
19:39<dominikh>it sure is
19:39<@Perihelion>You all are RUDE
19:39<@Perihelion>I'm offended.
19:40-!-mode/#linode [+o stan_theman] by ChanServ
19:40*stan_theman flexes
19:40<dominikh>nobody's rude
19:40<dominikh>we even called you hawt
19:40<straterra>i'd flex, but I don't wanna show you up
19:40-!-vraa_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:40<robinetd>stan_theman: Stop flexing your UNIX beard. We all know it's cool.
19:41<BarkerJr>ssanders: doesn't anyone have to approve large purchases?
19:45-!-everythingdaniel [] has joined #linode
19:46<Boohemian>hey, anyone here good with apache2 optimizing?
19:47<sirpengi>service apache2 stop
19:47<linbot>New news from forums: Wildcards in apache virtual host? Please help if you can! in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
19:47<sirpengi>there, it doesn't eat your ram anymore
19:47<Boohemian>i got an email from a friend who's running out of memory and apache crashes, mainly when crawled by google (or similiar)
19:48<Boohemian>here is the complaint:
19:48<Boohemian>i would appreciate some help
19:48<bob2>someone forgot to turn down maxclients
19:48<Boohemian>sirpengi: i wonder if having >100,000 files in one dir is the problem
19:48<Peng>Boohemian: That doesn't waste RAM; it's just slow and a bit I/O intensitve.
19:48-!-keyvan [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:49<sirpengi>lol +Indexes
19:49-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:49<sirpengi>haha, mod_python
19:50<sirpengi>wait, mod_python AND mod_wsgi?
19:50-!-Dataforce [] has joined #linode
19:50<bob2>sirpengi: "we forgot to hire a sysadmin"
19:50-!-mac-mini_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:51<Boohemian>bob2: should turning down maxclients help?
19:51<Peng>Boohemian: Unless it's already low enough.
19:53-!-cats [] has joined #linode
19:53<sirpengi>I like how the mod_python page says the project isn't dead, that it's so perfect there's no need to make anymore changes
19:54<bob2>JUST RESTING
19:54<Boohemian>sirpengi: would you recommend mod_python or mod_wsgi?
19:54<Boohemian>lol bob2
19:54<bob2>mod_wsgi of course
19:54<bob2>unless you really are writing apache handlers in python
19:54<Boohemian>is there anything else i can recommend to him? (other than trying nginx)
19:54<bob2>hiring a sysadmin
19:55<bob2>and/or sending you their config
19:56<Boohemian>okay,t hanks!
19:56<bob2>maxclients it the obvious thing to check first
19:58<sirpengi>wonder if someone is bringing down the site with php
19:58<linbot>New news from forums: So long again, Linode in General Discussion <>
19:59<sirpengi>5.1.6 seems like the default version in centos, and I'm not sure if that was patched against the recent "omg it's an integer" madness
20:01<Boohemian>bob2: what is a sane setting for maxclients?
20:04<bob2>dependso n load, and resources
20:04<bob2>i bet it is set to 150 though
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20:21<duckydan>Feature request: add an area where you can set up an s3 volume to appear in a mount point on the Linode.
20:21<Peng>How would that work?
20:21<Peng>You can install s3fs or whatever on a Linode.
20:21<bob2>magic,got it
20:21<Deezire_>you'd have to have s3fs then
20:22<Deezire_>and suucky performance
20:22<bob2>write a stasckscript <3
20:22<Deezire_>S3 was not made to be used as a filesystem, use the APIs instead
20:22<Peng>There is no standard way to make S3 resemble a POSIX fs; Linode shouldn't set one up.
20:22<duckydan>I just like the super easy Linode interface to manage volumes.
20:22<Deezire_>your linode would have to download the data every time you were doing something
20:23-!-blognewb_ [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
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20:23<Deezire_>S3FS does not operate as a normal disk, so, say you change a few bytes of one file, the whole file will have to be reuploaded
20:24<Deezire_>also downloaded in it's entire form to be edited
20:24<pharaun>the s3 has add some new api operation
20:24<pharaun>i think you can do partial down now
20:25<Deezire_>ah, cool
20:25<Deezire_>they just need to add support for rsync, then im happy
20:27<sirpengi>did they? I thought the latest news was upload in chunks
20:28<pharaun>poking the docs now
20:30-!-blognewb [~blognewb@] has joined #linode
20:30-!-LPCA [] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
20:31<pharaun>Retrieve object in parts—Using the Range HTTP header in a GET request, you can retrieve a specific range of bytes in an object stored in Amazon S3.
20:31<pharaun>Uploading Objects Using Multipart Upload
20:31<pharaun>so yeah multi-part upload, and can use range http headers in "download"
20:32<pharaun>but it does make me wonder how to deal with the download/modify/upload cycle on if you can do inplace modification but i somehow don't think so, poking the doc some more
20:32<sirpengi>I think the range GET is old hat though
20:33<sirpengi>I'm seeing people refer to it in 2008
20:33<sirpengi>and that was like, a decade ago
20:33<pharaun>i never was aware of it actually
20:33<sirpengi>(in internet time)
20:33<sirpengi>well, hard to do video over s3 without range GET
20:33<pharaun>still won't avoid the download/modify/upload cycle but
20:33<sirpengi>also, range GET is a heck of a lot easier to implement than range PUT
20:34<pharaun>but still easier to say get chunk of data/etc as needed
20:34<pharaun>so for a mostly readonly s3fs could be alright
20:34<duckydan>Well, anyway, even if it cost an extra fee a month, I'd buy it. I have some customers who would like image libraries, and the slowness would be acceptable.
20:34<pharaun>its the write that will kill you
20:34<sirpengi>well, I'm pretty certain things in s3fs is cached
20:34<pharaun>yeah some is i think
20:34<bob2>right, but no need to use s3fs to store images in s3
20:35<sirpengi>so as an enduser, when you write to it, I don't think you're blocked until the whole file is uploaded
20:35<pharaun>yeah, you just use the api directly
20:35-!-jackcomp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:35<pharaun>is usually better for web-services but yeah, i suppose, outta to poke at s3fs
20:35<pharaun>but really i just use jets3t for my s3 sync
20:35-!-blognewb_ [~blognewb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:35<Deezire_>sirpengi: s3fs caches in the sense that memory controller naturally would cache stuff
20:36<pharaun>i would think s3fs would be decent for read primary
20:36<Deezire_>So, all in all, using s3fs is more or less very bad practise
20:36<pharaun>its the read/modify/write that will destroy you
20:37<sirpengi>meh, I'd say it depends on the use-case
20:37<pharaun>a read heavy probably not much of a issue
20:37-!-MarkJ_ [] has joined #linode
20:37<pharaun>write, heavy.... depends on your upload bw
20:37<Peng>duckydan: An extra fee doesn't make S3 a POSIX FS.
20:37<Deezire_>and do a LIST everytime you request a file, i guess.
20:37<pharaun>its the modify heavy..... that kills you
20:37<pharaun>so in short, don't use it as your swap :3
20:37<linbot>New news from forums: NFS on CentOS 5.5 in Linux Networking <>
20:37<sirpengi>like, if you want to just dump sql backups to a dir and have it synced to s3 then s3fs is the crazy simple way
20:37<Peng>pharaun: Oh god
20:38<duckydan>Peng: Ok.
20:38<Deezire_>Unlimited storage, you say? I just mount /dev/null as /
20:38<bob2>is /dev/null webscale?
20:38<pharaun>just got to bear in mind that in the heart of it, its really just a massive DHT
20:38<pharaun>on amazon servers
20:39<bob2>if it is high performance and webscale I will use /dev/null
20:39<pharaun>no i think /dev/urmom is superior
20:39<pharaun>she om noms noms way faster
20:39-!-][EvIl-BoY][ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:39<Void|work>/dev/urmom has amazing bandwidth
20:39<Ovron> /dev/urmom requires a beowolf cray cluster to mount.
20:39<Void|work>almost as much bandwidth as THIS
20:39*Void|work thrusts
20:40<pharaun>Void|work: no wonder you guys are flooded
20:40-!-][EvIl-BoY][ [] has joined #linode
20:40<linbot>robinetd: Yo momma's so adjective, she verbed an adjective noun! (787:5/8) [muorm]
20:41<robinetd>urmom madlibs!
20:41<pharaun>that's just awful
20:41-!-vraa__ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:41-!-lsabota [] has joined #linode
20:42*robinetd strokes heckman's beard.
20:43-!-mode/#linode [+v lsabota] by Perihelion
20:43<@Perihelion>Consolation voicing
20:43<robinetd>Perihelion is our Doctor Sigmund Freud.
20:44<@Perihelion>BRING ME PETER PAN
20:44-!-mode/#linode [-o Perihelion] by heckman
20:44-!-vraa [] has joined #linode
20:44<@heckman>PETER PAN THAT!
20:44*nDuff ponders logstash
20:44*nDuff ponders loggly
20:44*robinetd smacks Perihelion with a peter.
20:44*nDuff ponders urmom as a log ingestion service
20:45*robinetd ponders nduff being stuffed into a woodchipper. Smiles.
20:45<Ovron>So. No longer the FNG heckman, how does it feel?
20:46-!-mode/#linode [+o Perihelion] by ChanServ
20:46<@heckman>Pretty much the same
20:46*heckman strokes beard
20:46*robinetd slaps heckman's hand out of the way, and continues stroking heckman's beard.
20:47-!-prettyrobots [~alan@] has joined #linode
20:47*heckman shrugs
20:47<prettyrobots>Anyone here run Open VPN between Linodes?
20:47<prettyrobots>I'd like to use OpenVPN to encrypt replication between MongoDB servers.
20:47<Ovron>ssh tunnel? <3
20:47<prettyrobots>I think, I don't know.
20:48<robinetd>heckman: Do you know who I mean when I say ZZ-Top guitarists?
20:48<robinetd>Is your beard that long?
20:49<prettyrobots>Ovron: Is it really this simple:
20:50<Ovron>you might want to use autossh to have it automatically retry reconnecting if it for some reason disconnects
20:50<prettyrobots>Can that scale?
20:50<Ovron>... scale?
20:50<prettyrobots>Can I use that as my mongodb port for multiple applications?
20:51-!-Dreamer3 [] has joined #linode
20:51<Ovron>after the ssh tunnel is set up, using localhost:portofchoice will connect you to otherportofchoice on the remote computer
20:51<prettyrobots>If I have a dozen applications running as different users connecting to MongoDB through the same SSH tunnel, is that solution? Or is that an abuse, more than it was meant to handle?
20:52<Ovron>no, that's perfectly fine
20:52<bob2>prettyrobots: yes it will (web) scale
20:53<Ovron>I was pondering if he tried to make it a webscale funny, but I don't think so
20:53<prettyrobots>No, I'm being exactly this clueless.
20:54<Ovron>ssh tunnel is <3, but I do recommend using autossh - it is a nice wrapper that attempts to keep the tunnel up if something goes bad.
20:55-!-duckydan [] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad -]
20:56<prettyrobots>Anyone have an opinions or experience with OpenVPN?
20:56<nDuff>SSH tunnels aren't exceptionally fast
20:56<straterra>i use openvpn a lot
20:56<nDuff>if you need more bandwidth, OpenVPN is teh awesome
20:56-!-metaperl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:56<prettyrobots>nDuff: Do you feel that ssh is slower than OpenVPN?
20:56<nDuff>(more bandwidth than a SSH tunnel will handle, I mean)
20:56<nDuff>prettyrobots, without question
20:57<prettyrobots>Ovron: Do you agree? (What does oO mean.)
20:57<prettyrobots>nDuff: Yeah, you know, unicorns and shit.
20:57<straterra>i wouldnt use ssh for tunneling on a production machine
20:57<straterra>maybe a temp workaround...nothing id leave for any long period of time
20:57<nDuff>...not as a part of production infrastructure, anyhow
20:57<Ovron>that's crazy talk, whatever
20:58<nDuff>as part of maintenance/debugging workflow, that's what it's good for
20:58<prettyrobots>Ovron: You feel that SSH is tunneling is fine for production?
20:58<Ovron>I honestly do not see why it wouldn't be. Perhaps I am at fault.
20:59<prettyrobots>(I'm really grateful for all the input. Not trolling. )
20:59<straterra>Well..using SSH certainly doesnt scale
20:59<prettyrobots>nDuff, straterra: I'd like to replicate MySQL and MongoDB between Linodes in different data centers.
20:59<straterra>and you're limited to TCP/UDP
21:00<nDuff>heck, in my book, TCP-over-TCP doesn't scale
21:00-!-duckydan [] has joined #linode
21:00<nDuff>and SSH doesn't give you any choice but to hit that issue
21:00<prettyrobots>That's about the only application I can think of right now.
21:00<Ovron>Would it be an issue for his purpose, do you recon?
21:00<straterra>prettyrobots: I'd either use a GRE tunnel or a OpenVPN tunnel for that
21:00<nDuff>Ovron, if he's trying to push the limits of his bandwidth, yes.
21:00<nDuff> the link.
21:01<straterra>Or something like ipsec over l2tp, if I were really opposed to OpenVPN
21:01*nDuff nods; ipsec stacks have gotten less hideously painful to configure lately (meaning last 5 years or so)
21:01<prettyrobots>straterra: What utilties/software does Generic Routing Encapsulation ?
21:01<nDuff>...unless you're trying to make ones from different vendors interoperate, in which case it's still a potential PITA
21:02<straterra>prettyrobots: the Linux kernel has native support for GRE
21:02<prettyrobots>straterra: Wow.
21:02<straterra>GRE is great if you don't need encryption and upstream routers don't filter the data
21:02<straterra>Linode datacenters won't filter GRE..but its also not encrypted
21:03*prettyrobots Shakes head.
21:03<straterra>GRE is CRAZY simple to set up though. 2-3 lines on each end and you're up
21:03-!-seanh-ansca [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:03<Ovron>nDuff: right, read the page, makes sense in a theoretical approach.
21:03<prettyrobots>Spent a lot of time with Google and there's not this kind of knowledge out there.
21:04<bob2>nDuff: it's still far far far more complicated than any other vpn tech on linux, though
21:04<straterra>What, ipsec?
21:04<prettyrobots>If I go the OpenVPN route, the docco is rather un-opinionated...
21:04<straterra>prettyrobots: The documentation on a simple point to point for openvpn will do for you
21:04<bob2>straterra: yes
21:04<prettyrobots> I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to do Routing or Bridging.
21:04<straterra>You don't need a road warrior set up
21:05<straterra>bob2: I'd rather use openswan than ipsec in ios :/
21:05<straterra>prettyrobots: I prefer briding..bridging is a misnomer though
21:05<prettyrobots>straterra: Oh, so there's some way to just set up a tunnel.
21:05<straterra>You don't have to bridge anything to use TAP
21:05<bob2>straterra: heh
21:05<straterra>Also, you get the benefit of broadcast/multicast as well as protocol transaprency when you use TAP
21:05<bob2>ok, I was considering *swan to be cheating
21:05<bob2>it actually has working docs
21:06<prettyrobots>Google is not giving me a definition of TAP.
21:06<prettyrobots>Sorry, trying to keep up.
21:06<prettyrobots>Oh, found it.
21:07<bob2>no need to worry, you already have it
21:07<nDuff>prettyrobots, unless you have a compelling reason, you want routing
21:07<nDuff>prettyrobots, bridging is sending ethernet headers over the wire for no good reason (in this scenario)
21:08<nDuff>...makes slightly larger packets, which if it pushes you over your MTU size isn't cool, and means one more layer within the OS that your packets need to go through.
21:09<nDuff>...but yar, the docs are indeed unopinionated; if you want something opinionated, that's the commercial "Enterprise Edition".
21:09<warren>hmm, apparently one of the other VPS providers beat Linode to native ipv6
21:09<linbot>New news from forums: linod 512 offer true root access? in Sales Questions and Answers <>
21:10<straterra>warren: well..not all of the Linode datacenters offer native yet
21:10<warren>straterra: yeah, but is it offered in the ones that do?
21:11<Boohemian>are toshiba laptops - in general - any good?
21:11<Boohemian>and what about sony viao's?
21:11<robinetd>No and no.
21:11<prettyrobots>nDuff, straterra: So, in closing (for now) use OpenVPN, and I probably don't have to look to hard just to set up a point to point tunnel.
21:12<@Perihelion>all laptops seem to suck unless you build them yourself these days :<
21:12<prettyrobots>Or else there is the GRE thing I can use, and that's a 2-3 lines on either end.
21:12<@Perihelion>well, my mbp is okay :>
21:12<Ovron>I love my Sony Vaio Z <3
21:12<@Perihelion>Not trying to be one of those arrogant apple users...I just have terrible luck with laptops :/
21:12<nDuff>prettyrobots, right, it's a matter of whether you want encryption
21:12<nDuff>prettyrobots, if you don't want encryption, GRE or IPIP gets you there very quickly
21:13<sirpengi>I've had terrible experience with Sony products in general
21:13<Ovron>A mbp 13" wouldn't be too bad if they were offered with i7s :<
21:13<sirpengi>except for walkmans, and cd players
21:13<Boohemian>Perihelion: you can build your own laptop?
21:13-!-niemeyer [~niemeyer@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:13<Ovron>sirpengi: like what products, if you don't mind?
21:14<Boohemian>Perihelion: i have a 13 MBP and a 17 MBP... i want to sell them as i want to save some money and i'm tired of OS X
21:14<straterra>Ovron: Too bad Apple only offers the shitty dual core i7s
21:14<@Perihelion>Boohemian: I have windows and linux running on mine with no problems
21:14<pharaun>is there a command like du but for counting files in each sub-directory?
21:15<Boohemian>Perihelion: well, i rather pocket ~1000-1500 bucks, depdning on what i replace them with
21:15-!-snubby [] has quit [Quit: autokilled: This host violated network policy.]
21:15<sirpengi>Ovron: I've seen 2 sony computers (my laptop, a desktop at an office I did volunteer work at) die just a few days after warranty expired. Also there's a tv my dad bought that's got a messed up display
21:15<@Perihelion>I've owned the far the lenovo and the mbp have treated me the best
21:15<@Perihelion>I have a samsung netbook that's pretty nice but I'm not sure how good their laptops are
21:16<sirpengi>my wife has a samsung laptop, and it's been quite charming
21:16<sirpengi>of course, she doesn't put it through the same paces I put mine through
21:16<Ovron>sirpengi: ah, I'd usually never get a sony computer... but then I saw the Z, and fell in love :p. TV seems odd, as they are generally good... although I use samsung for that, heh
21:16<@Perihelion>Yeah I beat the crap out of mine
21:17<Ovron>computer abuser? >:(
21:17<sirpengi>Ovron: what's your budget?
21:17<@Perihelion>Ovron: I used to travel a lot
21:17<Boohemian>i had an ibm thinkpad T23 before i switched to mac
21:17<Boohemian>i loved it
21:17<Boohemian>but the lenovo screen is shit (as in worse in the class)
21:18<Ovron>sirpengi: there really wasn't a limit for this, I just wanted something good - and I was looking at lenovo, and with one eye on the apples... but then I found the Z <3
21:18<@Perihelion>I used a lenovo at my last job that was rock solid
21:18<Ovron>sirpengi: it really isn't a budget computer, and you're paying multum for the special ssd in it - but it works awesomely.
21:18<@Perihelion>im thinking about getting one of the new lenovos for linux <3
21:18<sirpengi>Ovron: I'm looking forward to the
21:19<sirpengi>lol, oops, press release has pixelated images
21:19<Ovron>sirpengi: yeah a friend is looking at those currently - they sure do look nice aesthetically
21:19<prettyrobots>nDuff: Very much want the encryption. That's the point.
21:19<prettyrobots>So, OpenVPN it is, with a documentation path through "routing."
21:19<Ovron>I'd be happy with an i5 as well, as long as it has AES-NI <3
21:19<prettyrobots>Thanks everyone. Very helpful.
21:19<sirpengi>Ovron: the screen seems nice, and it's gonna be a sandy bridge
21:20<Ovron>AES-NI + the special SSD in my Z make it zoooom by
21:20<sirpengi>so it's not just aesthetics at this point
21:20<sirpengi>it's got a SSD as well
21:20<sirpengi>err, gonna have
21:20<pharaun>agreed, aes-ni == holyshit fast
21:21<pharaun>i think someone fucked up in truecrypt so its not properly parallelized and other aspects but i get about 1.7GB/sec aes
21:21<Ovron>pharaun: yeah, something really is off - even on the windows build which
21:21<Ovron>claims to have full aes-ni support *
21:22<pharaun>i think it should be "faster"
21:22<pharaun>but its still fairly fast as it is on a single cpu but i still think there is some work that can be done
21:23<pharaun>i mean to be honest i was tempted to give it a shot but again i'm not a crypto "expert" or anything at all so i probably would end up with just invalid results :-p
21:24<pharaun>finally got the blasted compare_image_sim to pool up properly its om' noming noming my cpu now :D but its noming my ram too :( need to figure out how to make python quit noming on the ram w/ list & tuples
21:24<Ovron>could you not use numpy for that part as well?
21:24<pharaun>that i don't know cos all i am doing is doing a list of (fpvalue, path1, path2)
21:25<pharaun>and i am already carrying around like 2-3 other lists of the same path1/path2 and np.arrays and its not noming *8this* much ram
21:25<pharaun>like maybe a gig max till i hit that part, so i don't know what the hell
21:26<pharaun>so there seems to be something sketchy with my memory usage in regards of large list & tuples
21:27<pharaun>but the weird thing is i already had a 70,000 tuple list which is 1) path, 2) filename, 3) something else and it did it just fine without noming up the ram,
21:28<pharaun>and the list that i'm processing via pool.maps is lots smaller and it only appends if its >0.98 on the fp hence
21:28<Ovron>perhaps it goes mad creating duplicates at some point
21:28<pharaun>should only be doing ~1% or less of that 70k list
21:29<pharaun>so i just don't know what the deal is
21:29<pharaun>suppose i can post up the latest iteration and see
21:32-!-cats [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:32<pharaun>script ->
21:33<pharaun>result on a "small" 7k image run, the memory does grow for the compare_sim_data but its like 4-8gig not 20 and blowing into the cache like the 70k one
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21:42<tentimes>Can someone help please? I have a working Nginx web and cant get phpmyadmin to work. It says cant load mysqli, yet mysqli is in the ini and i've checked it - its version 3.2.2 from universe repository
21:42<tentimes>(its = phpmyadmin in last sentence
21:43<tentimes>mysqli is loading fine
21:46<Ovron>have you checked phpinfo(); to see if it is loading?
21:47<warren>Hmm... normally I wouldn't bother because disk space is cheap, but disk space on Linode isn't cheap. I wonder if any of the transparent filesystem compression stuff is worthwhile.
21:49<Ovron>depends what types of files you are storing
21:49<warren>mainly mail
21:49<warren>98% mail
21:49<mendel>hey ericoc, you around?
21:50<Ovron>well, if it is currently stored as uncompressed text, then you'd gain quite a bit more space by compressing
21:50<tentimes>Dvron: Yes I have checked phpinfo, it shows it is checking the directory but i do npot know where to look to see if it has loaded mysqli
21:51<Ovron>tentimes: it should be further down on that page, with a section header "mysqli
21:52<Ovron>ctrl+f for "mysqli" on a phpinfo(); dump
21:54<tentimes>Ovron: Its not there, but when I put a command in php.ini "" it errors saying its already loaded
21:54<tentimes>So, i cant see it in php info for some reason, but php is telling me its loaded when i try to load a second time
21:54<Ovron>what distro are you on?
21:55<tentimes>ubuntu 10.04, php5 and mysql from repository (not from source)
21:55<tentimes>phpmyadmin 3.2.2
21:55<tentimes>phpmyadmin from universe
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21:56<tentimes>just checking phpinfo again to find it - but i thought it was decd for 5
21:56<@ericoc>mendel: sure
21:56<Ovron>is the "Scan this dir for additional .ini files" correct? And the row below that, does it load some .ini files?
21:56<mendel>ericoc: hiya, looking at a TOS ticket from you but figured it might be easier to figure out what to tell you here :)
21:57<tentimes>YEs on both counts Ovron
21:57<mendel>ticket 339054, was opt-in to our customers, through campaignmonitor that does unsubscribes etc.
21:57-!-warren [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:57<@ericoc>mendel: it would be best if you could update the ticket so we have a record and such
21:58<mendel>sure, just was wondering if there was anything specific you wanted
21:58<Ovron>tentimes: not sure what it could be then, I'm afraid
21:59<tentimes>There is no Mysqli "section" in the phpinfo tho
21:59<tentimes>ok thanks for trying ;)
21:59<duckydan>Good night all.
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22:00<Ovron>tentimes: try to grep for '' as far up as you can in the configuration path
22:00<tentimes>My only guess is that newer version of phpmyadmin doesnt need mysqli as its inherent in php5 anyway - deprecated it says
22:01<Ovron>tentimes: hmm, did you try restarting whatever has the php processes spawned?
22:01<tentimes>i restarted nginx
22:01<sirpengi>that does nothing
22:01<Ovron>but nginx isn't managing your php processes
22:02<Ovron>what are you using for php?
22:02<tentimes>um - just using the prepackaged php5 with zend framework - ZF shouldnt make any dif tho
22:02<Ovron>how does nginx contact your php processes?
22:03<Ovron>right, you need to restart that.
22:04<tentimes>okies - figuring that out now
22:04<Ovron>unlike using mod_php for apache, this has your php processes decoupled from the httpd, so restarting nginx has no effect on php ;)
22:05<straterra>I've never really got the hang of fastcgi
22:05<robinetd>urmoms so slow she thought she was ordering a cup of coffee when she downloaded java.
22:05<straterra>Is it really any faster than using apache modules?
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22:08<sirpengi>well, it's got its pros and cons
22:08<tentimes>its uses a lot less cpu
22:08<Ovron>does it really?
22:09<tentimes>err, well - from what i read nginx is a lot lower on CPU - thats why i went for it
22:09<tentimes>prob not the easiest for first time
22:11<Ovron>not sure how true that is, but the general misconception with regards to apache and php is that apache uses a lot of ram and is slow and nginx is teh awesomz best thing since sliced bread
22:11<Ovron>start up apache without mod_php, and it is pretty awesome as well ;p
22:11<robinetd>interesting. Someone was attempting to exploit my CS:S server from a qwest IP. Guess I'll just close it. O_o
22:14-!-prettyrobots [~alan@] has quit [Quit: prettyrobots]
22:14<tentimes>Well, apache without mod_php...
22:18<tentimes>Well slap my thing and call me gertrude
22:18<tentimes>err thigh even
22:18*robinetd slaps tentimes's thing.
22:19<tentimes>find turns up nada
22:19<tentimes>find that is
22:19<sirpengi>so how did you determine it was loaded properly the first time around?
22:19-!-][EvIl-BoY][ [] has quit []
22:20<tentimes>found it
22:20<tentimes>well when i added a second "" it spat out "extension already loaded"
22:20<tentimes>it is there in php5
22:21<sirpengi>which file?
22:21<tentimes> - Im trying to get phpmyadmin to work with an Nginx install - it keeps telling me mysqli isnt loaded
22:22<sirpengi>rephrase: which file is that line in
22:23<tentimes>the is in the mysqli.ini in conf.d which is getting included in the php.ini
22:23<sirpengi>rephrase: what's the absolute path to the file that that line is in
22:23<tentimes>ah ok
22:23<Ovron>are you loading pdo as well? I can't remember exactly, but doesn't mysqli require the pdo module?
22:24<Ovron>I remember having an issue a looong time ago, but can't remember if that was it
22:24<sirpengi>mysqli shouldn't require pdo
22:25<tentimes>its in /etc/php5/conf.d
22:25<tentimes>in the file mysqli.ini
22:25<tentimes>which is included in the php.ini trawl (it included the conf.d dir)
22:25<Ovron>tentimes: have you checked your error log, if it isn't spewing stuff out?
22:25<sirpengi>go to /etc/php5/
22:26<sirpengi>and type `grep -R -I *`
22:27<tentimes>its taking ages.... hmmm
22:27<sirpengi>seriously? mine happens instantly(tm)
22:27<tentimes>it still not finding it
22:28<sirpengi>well, it should, since you already found it in /etc/php5/conf.d/mysqli.ini
22:28<tentimes>no i found the reference to it not the file itself
22:28<tentimes>ah hold on
22:29<tentimes>feking typo ;)
22:29<sirpengi>and unless you have a billion text files in that directory I don't see why it'd take so long
22:29<tentimes>its found it
22:30<tentimes>i just typod it
22:30<sirpengi>just one?
22:30<sirpengi>I've got it in 4 places on mine
22:30<tentimes>no it found 6
22:30<sirpengi>under apache2/conf.d, cgi/conf.d/, cli/conf.d/ and conf.d/
22:30<tentimes>its in the pdo.ini
22:30<tentimes>and i KNOW pdo is loading
22:31<Ovron>why would it be in pdo.ini
22:31<auraka>i have lost faith in the world
22:31<tentimes>cos i stuck it there as an extra
22:31<tentimes>to be sure to be sure
22:31<tentimes>thats whats generating the "its already loaded" error
22:31<tentimes>which i did deliberately to check it was loading
22:31<auraka>baby drowns because mom was on facebook
22:32<robinetd>lul :o
22:32<Ovron>tentimes: how are you figuring out if it is loading, and how do you get the message considering you were restarting nginx before, and not your php handler?
22:32<Ovron>you said you got that error before as well, while restarting nginx
22:33<tentimes>nginx must have the fastcgi = phploader
22:33<tentimes>nginx must be starting php, since im getting php.ini config errors when i restart it
22:33<Ovron>sirpengi: does fastcgi start a new php process for each request?
22:34<Boohemian>hey, for a general purpose laptop, would it be best to wait for sandy bridge, or should i just go ahead and buy now, and get a decent nvidea graphics card?
22:35<Boohemian>dell is planning on releasing XPS 17" laptops with sandy bridge on feb 1, but i want somethign smaller. i don't know when lenovo or hp plan to
22:36<bob2>if you're not playing brand new fps games and you have 4gb of ram it hardly matters if it is 2 years old or not
22:36<tentimes>SDB isnt going to be a better gfx solution than the nvidia, check out Anands review of features
22:37<Ovron>it needs moar cuda
22:37<tentimes>its v complicated - you really need to study the diff versions to work that one out
22:38<tentimes>the mobile versions will be even more complicated, but bottom line SDB graphics, even if you can get the better gfx core (not sure if you can on mobile) is still below discrete
22:38<Ovron>tentimes: right, it seems fastcgi doesn't keep processes spawned, but spawns and kills one for each request - which means you don't have to restart the fastcgi handler, as each process loads the configuration again
22:38<tentimes>yea i thought so after reading through it
22:39<tentimes>plus it says that mysqli is desomethinged in php5 and later versions of phpmyadmin should use the inherent functions
22:39<Boohemian>tentimes: yeah, but will SDB also have better power management than the current i5/i7s?
22:40<tentimes>problem is i cant tell if version 3.2.2 phpmyadmin does that
22:40<linbot>New news from forums: php locale setting working in cli but not in fpm in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
22:40<amitz>Boohemian: or you can just make yourself get used to uh...dosbox games :-D
22:40<Boohemian>there are a lot of great deals on $1000 i7s right now (non-lenovo) and i am tempted
22:40<Boohemian>amitz: hm?
22:40<Ovron>as a "solution", you could just use the latest stable from the official site tentimes, instead of using the repository one
22:40<amitz>Boohemian: games that can run, under emulator, with any built-in graphic card :-p
22:40<tentimes>thats what im trying to do now - its the last thing to check really
22:41<Boohemian>amitz: i need a graphics card to play 720p and 1080p video -- i don't play games/do CAD work
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22:41<Ovron>even intel's older integrated ones can do that Boohemian :p
22:41<amitz>oh, I'm pretty sure any new (2011) notebook/desktop with any built-in graphic card can.
22:42<Boohemian>Ovron: yeah, but well? are there any other benefits to sandy bridge, besides the integrated graphics card?
22:43<Ovron>it is better than the previous generation, don't think anyone can deny that, but question is if you'll notice in your usage, and if you want to wait and possibly pay more.
22:43-!-hfb [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:43<Boohemian>Ovron: yeah, exactly. i don't know whether i would notice a difference.
22:44<Boohemian>but if it's less than a few weeks, why not wait? non-apple laptops don't hold their value well, so i would take a big hit on buying a laptop now, then selling it in a month
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22:44<Ovron>that'd be pretty dumb to do indeed
22:44<elkingrey>Hello everybody. I am currently building my server and am working my way through the linode library. I am currently configuring my DNS Server. I recently purchased my DNS from and have added my domain to the MASTER ZONE. But under SOA email I am not sure what to put. hasn't given me my own email address. My current administrative email address is just some random address I used when creating a profile. Is the SOA address supposed to
22:45<Boohemian>Ovron: can i pm you for a second?
22:45<Ovron>elkingrey: it is supposed to be your contact email
22:45<Ovron>Boohemian: sure
22:46<Boohemian>isn't it suppose to be
22:46<elkingrey>It's okay if it is for example?
22:46<bob2> should exist for another reason, though
22:46<bob2>elkingrey: yes
22:47<elkingrey>Okay. But how do I create
22:47<Ovron>does googleapps allow hostmaster@yourdomain if it is hosted with them? is it only abuse@ and postmaster@ that are blocked?
22:47<Ovron>s/blocked/redirected to google's staff/
22:47<elkingrey>FYI, I plan to use Postfix, not Google Apps
22:47<bob2>elkingrey: use your yahoo address
22:47<Ovron>yeah, sorry, it was just a sidequestion that I wondered about :p
22:48<bob2>if you have no idea, it is more likely that yahoo's email will work than your own ;)
22:48<@jed>Ovron: they're not blocked
22:48<@jed>you can receive them, google just unconditionally receives them
22:48<Ovron>jed: ah, thanks
22:48<elkingrey>Hmm. When I went to create my own email address through, they told me they would only allow and, but that conflicts with and such, doesn't it?
22:49-!-atula [] has joined #linode
22:50<Ovron>elkingrey: you can either use their DNS service if they provide one, or you can use linode's.
22:50<Ovron>elkingrey: or both, for redundancy.
22:50<bob2>ie those 2 are mandatory lists, one recipient can be you but google is always another
22:50<elkingrey>I want to use linode's. But how do I create through linode?
22:51<bob2>elkingrey: linode gives you a linux server
22:51<bob2>elkingrey: so you install and configure a mail system to handle that user and domain
22:51<Ovron>elkingrey: you have to set up mx records for, and point them to a mail server expecting incoming emails on that domain. ... yeah, listen to bob2 :p
22:52<elkingrey>Okay, so once I start working my way through the Postfix Linode Library, it will fix me up?
22:52<bob2>it'll show you how to configure a mail system, yes
22:52<bob2>though, do first
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22:53<elkingrey>Okay, sweet. Thanks a bunch. Already done getting started. But for some reason the library takes you to setting up email before it takes you to setting up DNS
22:53<bob2>I don't think it does
22:53<Ovron>managing your own mail service is not a one-time off thing, and it isn't the most straight forward either if you havn't done it before. Some would recommend using googleapps for email, unless you really want to host it yourself.
22:53<bob2>but anyway, you want to configure mail before you start trying to receive email
22:54<bob2>so mail before updating dns is right
22:54<elkingrey>Okay. For the record, DNS does come before email, but I think the beginner's guide directs you to email, skipping DNS Services. Actually, it takes you to LAMP before email.
22:55<elkingrey>Ahhh. Got it!
22:55<elkingrey>Thanks again
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23:09<@heckman>I kind of want to set up a mailserver just to say I did. And then...I also want to keep my soul and sanity intact.
23:10<bob2>it's not too bad, obsessiong over your antispam stuff is the worst bit ;)
23:10<amitz>heckman: you usually get to keep either one.
23:10<encode>heckman: just pick a guide on howtoforge at random, then read it. Don't bother actually running the commands, you can imagine that part
23:11<@heckman>I dunno, I am growing a crazy beard. I may as well throw the sanity away
23:11<encode>that way you can say you did it, in your head. No sooul destroying sanity-losing due to malformed commands and poorly thought out configurations
23:11<@heckman>Man, I took two shots fo NyQuil over 15 hours ago and I still feel all Keanu Reevesy
23:12<amitz>encode: nah, I say you must do it. Just don't let it receive any email.
23:13<amitz>it's the sweet spot between credibility and sanity keeping.
23:13<encode>well if you're going to the pain of doing it, may as well let it receive mail too
23:13<encode>just not send or store
23:13<encode>that way we can all spam heckman
23:14<amitz>but by not having....wait.... spam heckman, yes!
23:16<@heckman>beard works as a spamfilter as well
23:16<amitz>and fish netter.
23:16<Void|work>beards ftw
23:17<amitz>I wonder if I can grow it enough to hide weapons.
23:18<amitz>ceramic knife.
23:18<bob2>just get Raven's glass knives
23:19<amitz>bob2: good idea, wikipedia says.
23:20-!-vraa [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:21<amitz>diamond knife seems awesome.
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23:35<pharaun>Ovron: i think i've solved the memory issue, i turned a read-only list of image_sim into a list residing on shared memory and access it from all processes and now the memory is no longer exploding, its a tad dirty cos it needs to be done and in the global namespace before a fork
23:35<pharaun>i'm busy crunching like 30k and ist stable at 3.16gb rock stable so far
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23:39<amitz>I still don't know what you're doing...
23:39<amitz>finding duplicates?
23:39<pharaun>Ovron: i'm not 100% on why this is working but i have 2 theory atm 1) CoW semantics on the list, so technically all processes gets a copy but since they don't write, the CoW does not trigger. 2) some sort of shared memory trickery is going on, but i'm not sure on that yet
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23:40<pharaun>amitz: yes a quite simple image duplicate algo, but it does noms on the cpu, and i've been plagued with ton of memory noming issues
23:40<Ovron>pharaun: ah; might be worth investigating
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23:40<pharaun>amitz: its just something that i'm doing to get warmed up and more comfortable with the language, numpy, etc before i start onto the harder stuff such as feature matching, etc
23:41<pharaun>Ovron: yeah, well either way it seems to work, i just would be happier if i know exactly *why* it is seeming to work
23:43<amitz>oh.... how does the comparison work? I mean, what if the file of different format or compression method? Different size? Does this numpy compare the resulting bitmap, or just raw data?
23:44<elkingrey>After having inserted the command to install required packages to setup Postix, I find that several of the packages were unable to be located. It also never prompted me to create a password for the mysql root user. This I can understand because I believe that was something I did earlier. But still. It didn't seem to install any of the packages and it was unable to locate many of them. What do I do?
23:45-!-tentimes [] has quit [Quit: tentimes]
23:45<amitz>I guess what's important is the last question.
23:45<amitz>elkingrey: no, I'm talking to pharaun :-p
23:45<Ovron>updated your package manager?
23:46<Ovron>amitz: he seems to have died; he splits images into 32x32 grid, and compares each channel in RGB as a mean of the values
23:47<pharaun>amitz: i was reading a book while i wait for the machine to go noms
23:47<pharaun>amitz: but yeah Ovron's summary is accurate, its a very simple algo and it works really good on some "subset" of images.
23:47<Ovron>and if a comparison (abs(v1-v2)) is of less difference than a set percentage, it counts as a match
23:47<amitz>Ovron: I assume the "compares in RGB" means bitmap comparison, I'm not familiar with the terms -_-
23:48<elkingrey>Here is my command and results:
23:48<pharaun>amitz: but yeah it reads in the image via PIL, and if its not of the RGB color space, it rejects the image for now, and then it loads the raw bitmap into a numpy array broken up by RGB value
23:48<bob2>elkingrey: are you running ubuntu 10.04?
23:48<bob2>then read the guide for 10.10
23:49<bob2>I'd suggest 10.04, though
23:49<pharaun>amitz: then i crunch that into 32x32x3 arrays for each image, then latter on i compare each array to eachothers and use the (abs(v1-v2)) formula to get the difference like Ovron said, and if its below a certain % it is "similiar"
23:49<elkingrey>bob2: you mean I should read the guide for setting up Postfix with the Ubuntu Documentation instead of the Linode Library?
23:49<pharaun>amitz: like i said, really really simple algo, but its a good way to get my hand wet, and get more familiar with the memory/performance/multi-processing implications and so forth
23:49<bob2>elkingrey: I mean, read the title of the page you're reading
23:49<Ovron>pharaun: how verbose of you; my explanation was the same, in less than one full sentence! :p
23:50<bob2>elkingrey: is the index page
23:50<Ovron>oh no, angry face
23:50<elkingrey>I am reading the one for Ubuntu 10.10
23:51<pharaun>Ovron: indeed, i tend to the verboseness side of the hill
23:51<@jed> is on sale for $5
23:51<@jed>who wants to go in on it with me
23:51<amitz>hmm I see
23:52<mwalling>urmom does
23:52<pharaun>amitz: my goal is to work on stuff like "SIFT" which are used in panorama to match up features and etc but those are more complicated algo
23:52<bob2>elkingrey: /etc/apt/sources.list
23:52<Ovron>elkingrey: you might want to re-read the apt-get install line in the guide
23:52<elkingrey>k, one sec
23:52<pharaun>anyway bout bedtime so going to go read for a while, while i wait for the puter to noms on this
23:53<Ovron>(tip: there's no number one in libsasl2-2)
23:54<elkingrey>Okay. Never mind. It's working now. I don't know why but at the beginning of the guide it specifically says "Do not just copy paste, blah blah blah" I am sure if I would have copy/pasted the command it would have worked the first time. Must have made one stupid type or something the first time. Lame
23:55<Ovron>Or... you could have read it correctly ;)
23:55<Ovron>You wrote a SAS1 instead of SASL
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23:59<linbot>SelfishMan: Point (0.46667292, 0.30193095) lies within the unit circle. Hits: 17587 of 22369 (π ≈ 3.144888014663150 - 0.003295361073357)
---Logclosed Wed Jan 19 00:00:24 2011