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#linode IRC Logs for 2017-04-17

---Logopened Mon Apr 17 00:00:12 2017
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01:26<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • bootstrap <>
01:27<JamesTK>friend loses $100
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02:15*arlen gives JamesTK $100 linden
02:16<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • My Itunes Login Australia <>
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05:06<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • How to configure my Linode adding my own domain <>
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05:56<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • How to configure my Linode adding my own domain <>
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06:17<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials • [TOP TIP] Image to embed <>
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06:47<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Uh Gmail Login <>
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08:08<kam187>Hi guys
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08:09<kam187>Is there any way to add extra HD without going up to the next package? Is the allocation shared between instances?
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08:14<Celti>Disk space is not shared, and currently there is no way to get more other than changing packages
08:14<Celti>However there is a block storage service planned in the near future
08:17<JamesTK>kam187: you can upgrade and then just add a separate disk image ... linode -does- allow downsizing but you need to be able to fit images into that
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08:17<JamesTK>also, yeah, block storage would be <3
08:18<kam187>Hmm ok
08:18<kam187>At 160$ I'm better off going with a dedicated server
08:18<JamesTK>Yeah, at some scales dedi's make more sense
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08:19<kam187>I don't need the cpus just the space
08:19<kam187>I don't even need ssd
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08:27<@jalter>I'm imagining the scene in the Martian where the dude is just ripping parts off of the ascent vehicle and throwing them on the ground
08:27<@jalter>"no CPUs... no SSD... no RAM...."
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08:37<kam187>Hmm I see digital ocean have block space
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08:37<kam187>But their normal prices are higher
08:37<kam187>Dedicated in Japan doesn't seem cheap :/
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08:39<Peng>Linode is working on block storage. :<
08:39<millisa>RS has block storage for their cloud offering - their vps's aren't as price competitive with linode's though.
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08:40<millisa>pretty sure they had a spindle/ssd choice on setting up the blockstorage, too
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08:40<Peng>Maybe Rackspace thinks "price competition" means competing to be MORE expensive.
08:41<millisa>new accounts have this minimum management service level charge on them now too
08:41<Peng>Meanwhile my Rackspace Cloud account is chugging along at like $0.05/month because i just have some object storage stuff :P
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08:54<JamesTK>millisa: yeah that's like $60
08:57<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • How to configure my Linode adding my own domain <>
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09:27<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • After setting a linode with the private ip, it fails to ping other websites <> || Feature Request/Bug Report • Modern GUI Dashboard / Deleting Linode Confirmation Improvement <>
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09:48<defaultName>If I am understanding correctly I do not need to install AJAX on my apache server, it is a way of interpreting javascript?
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09:49<defaultName>That way I can just upload a html file and use it right away.
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09:53<defaultName>Whoops I closed the wrong tab
09:53<defaultName>But can I use AJAX straight away with a fresh linode
09:53<defaultName>If I understand it correctly it is just javascript and php
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09:55<JamesTK>nothing fancy
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10:09<DrJ>really wish linode would apply dns updates instantly... would be a much welcomed feature
10:12<dwfreed>it poses some interesting technical and security challenges
10:14<Cromulent>I agree that would be cool - setting up things like Office 365 and Google G-suite is a bit of a PITA at the moment because you have to wait for DNS to update
10:15<DrJ>haha Cromulent, office 365 is what I'm setting up
10:15<DrJ>and yes, it is a PITA having to wait
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10:17<DrJ>seems like you sometimes have to wait 30 minutes
10:17<DrJ>like I added mine at 1 or 2 after the hour
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10:17<DrJ>it's now past the first 15 minutes and it's still not applied
10:17<Cromulent>I just had a cup of tea while I waited
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10:21<dwfreed>DrJ: the update process can take a while, and is done staggered, so it doesn't happen exactly on the quarter hour, and which master is used by Cloudflare is random
10:22<dwfreed>so yes, the end result is that it can take up to a half hour in reality
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10:22<dwfreed>if you enable AXFRs for your IP address, you can ask the masters for the SOA
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10:42<warewolf>re: linode + dns, in the past couple of days, I've been trying to use DNS verification for LetsEncrypt, and it appears it takes longer than LetsEncrypt allows for the linode nameservers to update as slaves off my primary nameserver (my linode) :(
10:42<warewolf>"go make this DNS record" <edits, reloads zone, waits, OK!> <presses enter> "failed anti-replay check" :(
10:44<Peng>Should only take a couple seconds
10:44<Peng>"failed anti-replay check"?
10:45<warewolf>they have you go create a txt record, and apparently the value is based off some clock.
10:46<warewolf>so when $INTERVAL lapses, a new value is made, which no longer matches the value I put in my zone.
10:46<warewolf>(I have no idea how long the interval is)
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10:47<Peng>It's not based on a clock, but i think unvalidated pending authorizations can expire quickly when they're under high load, or something.
10:47<Peng>But not in a few seconds, of course.
10:47<Peng>What was the actual error message?
10:47<warewolf>I have a 0% success rate over sat/sun.
10:48<warewolf>Domain verification results for '': error. JWS has invalid anti-replay nonce oqqLFoY13jvElr4_ashBd6fyLGcbdcNAPTX6a2IBb5Y
10:48<Peng>Although this issue sounds over my head.
10:48<warewolf>I'm RTFMing how Lets Encrypt works
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10:50<TheFirst>Peng: takes more than a few seconds for slaves to update in my experience ... 15-30 seconds between the notify and them pulling and additional before the ns? servers reflect the change
10:51<warewolf>it's taking ~30 min for me
10:52<TheFirst>I haven't actually timed it ... only record that updates "regularly" is one I use for ddns and so far haven't had to update it since setup so... :/
10:52<Peng>You're NOTIFYing the nameservers? Is it failing?
10:54<dwfreed>warewolf: what nameservers are you sending NOTIFYs to? the axfr servers (in bind, you'd have to have an also-notify block listing them), or ns1-5 (which are run by cloudflare)?
10:55<Peng>warewolf: You're letting Certbot sit for 30 minutes before hitting Enter?
10:55<dwfreed>Peng: yes
10:55<Peng>warewolf: What version of Certbot?
10:55<warewolf>Peng: '' from zerossl
10:56<warewolf>17-Apr-2017 10:52:19.927 notify: info: zone sending notifies (serial 2017041701)
10:57<Peng>warewolf: So, i'm not sure how long it takes nonces to expire, or if it's time-based or based on load (i think it's based on load), but i'm not surprised it's gone after 30 minutes.
10:57<dwfreed>warewolf: do you have the also-notify block for the zone (or in the options block to apply to all zones) listing the axfr servers?
10:57<Peng>warewolf: However, your client is supposed to retry the request with the new nonce given in the response.
10:57<Peng>I dunno if does that :-/
10:58<warewolf>dwfreed: yes, I have also-notify allow-transfer, etc, hold on a sec I'm redoing the update to get actual time lapsed for correct zone info
10:58<dwfreed>when do the Linode servers do their AXFR/IXFRs?
10:58<warewolf>please wait ?
10:58<Peng>Also... Let's Encrypt is more fun whem it's automated. :<
10:59*dwfreed automates Peng
11:02<warewolf>ok, have details. lemme put all this in a gist
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11:06<warewolf>so it starts out asking for me to create a challenge w/ H-buhxKytMlx37tkFwH-HsxO74Nf7TKLOyur5lnQiGk, then 9 minutes later says its invalid, and wants E7gUxEjqL4V8-n8ONertpHIhsCZQRUUZ1wJTO3rILGQ
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11:07<Peng>Two different things.
11:08<warewolf>this time it took ~10 minutes for the change to get picked up. I've been progressivly dropping all the TTLs in my zone (retry, minimum, etc) for the SOA and the challenge record to try to speed up expiration of the record in caching nameservers, and to speed up the (i,a)xfr
11:08<Peng>The anti-replay nonce and the key authorization (the TXT record value) are two completely different things.
11:09<dwfreed>the SOA TTLs aren't important in this case
11:09<dwfreed>but I do believe the TXT record TTL can have an effect on cloudflare
11:09<warewolf>it's set to 5 minutes now
11:10<Peng>It doesn't want you to change the TXT record, it wants your client to resend the last HTTP request with the new nonce.
11:10<warewolf>ok so it's a bug.
11:10<dwfreed>that's what it seems like
11:10<Peng>well, a limitation
11:10<warewolf>I call improper implementation of an API a bug :)
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11:12<p0ll0sa9>whois p0ll0sa9
11:13<dwfreed>try with a leading / :)
11:13<p0ll0sa9>Mistyped lol
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11:31<Cromulent>has anyone else ditched running a linux virtual machine in favour of using the linux tools in windows 10?
11:31<Cromulent>I really just use it for SSH / SCP / SFTP and managing my linode
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12:05<zifnab>Cromulent: I can't stand the shell colors
12:05<zifnab>And I can't find a decent way to pick new ones
12:08<zifnab>Well, easy way to copy sane shell defaults
12:08<zifnab>It's the weird windows green
12:08<Cromulent>ah OK
12:08<Cromulent>I can live with that
12:08<zifnab>(msys2 is still better imo for ssh)
12:09<zifnab>I wonder if I can get their terminal app to load windows bash
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13:22<kirk>Hello, quick question about the "managed" add on. Is the $100/mo fee per account or per-Linode?
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13:23<kirk>Thanks, that's what I thought. The page was just a little unclear.
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13:35<Eugene>zifnab - I'm too lazy to install it myself to check, but I know that cmd.exe and powershell.exe both use the same TTY thingy under Windows, and can be customized by right-clicking the title bar....
13:35<Eugene>Font, size, colors, all the normal stuff
13:37<asd>I'm not a techy, but i want to move my hosting, will i get any support in moving?
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13:58<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Lish - Improve 'Copying the Disk' over ssh speed <> || Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials • [TOP TIP] Multitail (live multi-file log display) <>
14:02<Eugene>Dear lazyweb, its story time: I'm plotting to buy a new laptop soon, and it looks like its going to be a MacBook. I would like to try OS X in a VM before plopping down for hardware. r/hackintosh instructions start with "download OS X from the App Store", which I don't have until I buy a Mac. wat do
14:02<Eugene>And I am trying to avoid googling for 5-year-old out of date information because that was just a giant waste of time.
14:02<dwfreed>Eugene: get somebody with a mac and VMware Fusion to just give you a VM image
14:03<@caker>probably better off going to Best Buy or Apple store and playing with one there, if that would work
14:03<Eugene>.....duh, i have a cow orker with a mac.
14:03<Eugene>Thanks, obvious answer is obvious
14:04<Eugene>And yeah, I've played with the OS a little bit on demo/display units but that isn't the same as fullscreen-ing a VM for a day to see if I end up crying in the corner
14:04<dwfreed>Eugene: note, OS X expects an SMC; there are patches for VMware Workstation and ESXi to emulate one; something similar may exist for VirtualBox too, but I don't know
14:04<Eugene>It seems to be about the same as it was a decade ago
14:05<Eugene>I read about that a bit, you need to set a flag in the .vmx, no big deal
14:08<dwfreed>Eugene: the biggest annoyance will probably be System Integrity Protection (aka rootless), which can be disabled and re-enabled from recovery mode
14:10<Eugene>As long as Factorio works :v
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14:32<dwfreed>Eugene: can't speak for newer macs, but it works just fine on my late 2013 retina running Mavericks
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14:43<zifnab>Eugene: i know i can change it, i just...don't know what the 'standard' green-on-black colors are
14:44<zifnab>i'm lazy, there's no way to automate it
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14:55<aamirawan>I want to ask something
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14:58<Eugene>If only it was possible to push out the registry changes to all your machines through Group Policy
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14:58<Eugene>(it is)
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15:20<zifnab>Eugene: i don't like clicking things
15:20<zifnab>give me a way to do GPO changes via bash
15:20<Eugene>If only you could manipulate it with powershell
15:20<Eugene>Or .net
15:20<Eugene>Or anything
15:21<zifnab>needs to be doable through vi
15:21<Eugene>Your excuses aren't even trying anymore, just admit you're a windows hater
15:21<zifnab>god damn it
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15:22<zifnab>i hate windows
15:22<zifnab>i despise it
15:22<Eugene>See? Easy.
15:22<zifnab>give me a fucking editable config file
15:22<zifnab>its not that hard
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15:22<zifnab>don't make me click things or open regedit
15:22<zifnab> /etc/bash-for-windows/color.conf
15:22<zifnab>thats all i want
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15:22<Eugene>If you want to think about it again, the registry *is* a giant /etc/, with hierarchies and everything
15:23<Eugene>It even dumps/imports plaintext ini-style .reg files
15:23<Eugene>Your argument is self-disproving
15:23<zifnab>i can't vim it
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15:23<zifnab>without running some shit to dump it out
15:23<zifnab>i want flatfiles, not a piece of shit database
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15:24<zifnab>thats like saying you can edit sql tables with vim by running mysqldump
15:24<zifnab>yes, you can, thats outside the point
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15:24<Eugene>"oh god why"
15:24<zifnab>only operates in linux
15:24<zifnab>that is slightly fantastic though
15:25<Eugene>I'm sure you could make it run under Ubuntu-on-10
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15:25<zifnab>can't open registry multiple times
15:26<Eugene>Also, powershell already exports it as a drive:
15:26<Eugene>You're used to dealing with the win32 APIs; those are horrible and haven't really changed since XP
15:27<Eugene>Just forget that all of those exist and go learn the new ones
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15:28<aamirawan>my account is not approved yet?
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15:28<aamirawan>is there any one for help?
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15:36<zifnab>Eugene: or continue not using windows :P
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15:36<Eugene>That's invalid when your Surface spends 4 hours updating on my counter
15:36<zifnab>'dumb ssh box'
15:36<zifnab>i could replace that thing with a chromebook
15:36<zifnab>(and might at some point)
15:36<Eugene>Chromebooks don't play factorio
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15:37<zifnab>they can! ... via an arch chroot
15:37<zifnab>and an x11 chromeapp client/server/whateveritis
15:38<Eugene>Speaking of which: when 0.15 finally drops, is there enough interest in here to make it worth standing up a Multiplayer server for Linodeans? I run it out of Fremont
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15:49<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • How to configure my Linode adding my own domain <>
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16:07<@ctarquini>some poor souls still need to support XP
16:08<@ctarquini>did not scroll down in my irc buffer
16:08<@ctarquini>replied to something from days ago
16:11<Eugene>My experience at $DAYJOB for an IT services company is that nboody is actually using XP who matters
16:12<Eugene>How can you tell? Because they're still using XP
16:12<Eugene>China scraping spam goes down dramatically if you require SNI, as does SSH spam if you slowloris them
16:13<Eugene>And almost all email spam if you just require STARTSSL on SMTP - valid cert or not
16:13<nate>Eugene: Just because someone is on XP doesn't mean they can't SNI
16:13<nate>only thing on XP that limits SNI is anything using MS cryptolibs, which most 3rd party things don't
16:13<Eugene>I'm well aware of all these facts. See above about "who matters"
16:14<nate>Well I imagine many of the corps still forking out money to keep their XP supported by MS and those still forking out money for XP PoS feel like they matter :P
16:15<nate>though I imagine at this point they've spent far more on maintained support than they would have to migrate up by now
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16:15<Eugene>Nonsense. All of those stories are anecdotal. It is not difficult(or that expensive, if you have a MRC bulk contrract) to upgrade your desktop & CALs
16:16<Eugene>XP Embedded is a different beast, and it still has support
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16:16<@ctarquini>doesn't IE 7 on XP not support SNI?
16:17<relidy>"anything using MS cryptolibs" - nate
16:17<@ctarquini>right so I'm more saying that if you're being forced to use XP
16:17<@ctarquini>you're probably forced to use IE
16:17<relidy>Heh, fair point
16:17<Eugene>Yup, and that's the sort of situation where I just leave because the customer is too stupid
16:18<@ctarquini>they'll get around to updating eventually
16:18<@ctarquini>at the speed of enterprise
16:19<Eugene>No they won't, their business will just fail because they can't see the forest for the trees and then they really don't matter
16:19<Eugene>Its OK: somebody new with fresh VC money will be around in a week and you can milk them for the same advice again. That's how IT works
16:19<Eugene>My job could be done by a parrot some days
16:20<@ctarquini>sounds like a hot new startup
16:20<@ctarquini>IT Parrot as a Service
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16:30<nate>ctarquini: I don't see why that would be a safe assumption. Only reason IE would be forced is anything using ActiveX, and simply using XP is not a reason to assume ActiveX is 'forced'
16:30<nate>Not uncommon to see shit like Chrome or Firefox in corporate environments
16:30<nate>(in my experience anyways)
16:32<nate>Eugene: If corporations failed because of things as silly as paying for long term XP support, most mega corps in the world would be dead :P
16:32<Ikaros>Heh, here's the funny thing now that you mention it. My day job's POS terminals that run XP, they have a little side function that lets you access the scheduling app right? Well this lanuches IE, and recently the site itself upgraded their security in such a way that IE just bails when it tries to connect it now.
16:32<nate>we're not talking mom and pop stores and shit. We're talking companies that like I noted earlier, literally fork money over to MS to continue supporting them on it
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16:32<Ikaros>As in, the cannot connect to site/SSL error/etc page
16:32<Eugene>This type of spending waste is exactly what high-paid business consultants are describing when they say "operational efficiencies". Stop doing dumb things, fire people you don't need, and make the product better.
16:33<Ikaros>And the IT people can't figure it out
16:33<Eugene>XP-support is not THE reason for downfall of a company, but if you add up all of the small waste sources then suddenly you're running in the red and have been for a dozen years: that's a failed business
16:33<Ikaros>I imagine they're screaming at Microsoft right about now thinking it's their problem.
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16:33<nate>Ikaros: Yeah there are a lot of XP PoS systems that way. Sheetz's used to be (if you ever been to a sheetz and used their MTO machines) a website w/ touchscreen interaction in IE, now they use Chrome)
16:34<Ikaros>When in fact it's just the fact the site being accessed is more modern now, more up-to-date
16:34<Ikaros>And thus doesn't support what IE on XP does anymore
16:34<nate>Eugene: Yes but many still make plenty of money which is prob why they don't care about stuff like that because executives generally think throwing money at stuff == better
16:35<Ikaros>I think they finally got the hint though and started chucking those XP PoS terminals whenever they fail, and replacing them with a much, MUCH nicer PoS terminal running Windows 7 Pro
16:35<Eugene>Yup. I hate executive thinking./
16:35<Eugene>That has been my experience as well. An XP terminal that fails is now 5+ years old(hopefully).... so its an easy sell to upgrade the whole box
16:35<nate>not when the company has vast XP PoS support going on w/ MS (like Sheetz)
16:36<nate>they have regional supply centers w/ XP PoS MTO machines that just get sent out on their supply trucks whenever one fails at a store lol
16:36<Eugene>Meanwhile, other retailers are happily paying Red Hat for enterprise support
16:36<Eugene>6 of one, half-dozen of t'other
16:37<Ikaros>"...reported over 2 inches of rain in the past 30 minutes..." :o
16:38<Ikaros>Ok so that's what all that noise that so rudely woke me up was about
16:38<Eugene>I don't think that qualifies as rain anymore
16:38<Eugene>Maybe somebody up-turned a 747 airtanker
16:39<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Centralized hosting control panel? <>
16:43<Ikaros>It's a whole bunch of rain/storms sitting practically on top of the central part of the D/FW Metro, barely moving at all
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16:59<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • Google apps email <>
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17:49<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials • [TOP TIP] Server monitoring (the cool way) <>
17:55<Eugene>"the cool way" ? How bad can this be
17:56<Eugene>Oh wow, that is terrible.
17:56<zifnab>horrifying, even
17:57<zifnab>i keep getting monitoring spam from companies
17:57<zifnab>datadog *really* wants my business
17:57<zifnab>(i refuse to touch them because they spam)
17:58<Eugene>Send them:
17:58<zifnab>should i click that at work
17:58<Eugene>Yes, it's a gem of internet history
17:59<zifnab>also yes gkrellm looks like shit
17:59<zifnab>the [1] really makes it
17:59<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Centralized hosting control panel? <>
17:59<Eugene>Its had that on it since sometime in the late 90s when we moved these from a FAT32 box
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18:00<Eugene>The troops series is a gem, and I highly recommend the original MOV format isntead of the crunchy yotuube uploads
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18:00<zifnab>you've also got some bitrot at the end
18:00<zifnab>missing the storm off
18:01<Eugene>Media Player Classic plays the entire 26s for me
18:02<zifnab>quicktime fails (i'm on workmac)
18:02<Eugene>But yes, these files are old. sprtxmas[1].mov is a digitzed second-gen VHS of the South Park xmas card
18:02<zifnab>i assume if $SHITJOB wants to give out macbooks, i should get one, because they cost a fortune
18:02<zifnab>same url?
18:02<Eugene>The original tape is lost in my mother's storage
18:02<Eugene>Yeah, directory listings are on
18:03<zifnab>oh thats why
18:04<zifnab>gradle gradle gradle, i made you out of clay. gradle gradle gradle, gradle's fucking lame.
18:05<zifnab>Eugene: are these...taken from vhs?
18:05<zifnab>this is horrid
18:05<zifnab>where's the 1080p rerelease
18:05<FluffyFoxeh>at least they're not compressed to shit
18:05<Eugene>Yes, I just said that. One of my early adventures in ripping
18:05<Eugene>That's because I left the sliders on Quality
18:06<zifnab>part of me wants a tree of that box
18:06<zifnab>i'm sure there's weird internet history saved somewhere
18:06<Eugene>I also have a selection of some of the earliest non-test MP3s on the internet
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18:07<Eugene>My favorite is a tape of the debut of Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence on some norwegian radio station
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18:07<Eugene>Wow, I even have VRML files still
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18:08<zifnab>'android-curious' just got thrown out in work slack. android is now a sexuality.
18:09<zifnab>...wrong channel
18:09<zifnab>RIP SFW #linode
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18:09<FluffyFoxeh>right channel
18:09<Eugene>Je suis un banane
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18:10<zifnab>Ich spreche keine hose
18:14<Eugene>That's a very specific problem and not one that you are well equipped for
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18:19<zifnab>k, i've takent his too far
18:19<zifnab>'pan-device-ecosystemist' came out of my mouth
18:21<MajObviousman>yes, you have taken this too far
18:22<MajObviousman>entirely too far
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19:35<Jake_>Hey guys
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19:35<Jake_>Are linode VPS's good for a minecraft hosting company
19:36<Ikaros>You do know Minecraft servers are typically high-priority targets for DDoSers right
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19:38<Jake_>Other than that fact, will the performance be as same as of a dedicated server
19:41<Jake_>so comparing the 8gb linode plan to a 8gb dedicated server with same amount of cores etc, the dedicated server will be better?
19:42<jiggawattz>apples to oranges
19:42<jiggawattz>are the processors the same?
19:43<jiggawattz>on a Linode, you can't hit all the cores 24/7 because it's shared
19:44<Jake_>does linode not allow all cores to be used 24/7?
19:44<jiggawattz>hell no
19:44<Jake_>what would happen if t does become used 24/7
19:44<jiggawattz>your VPS is suspended
19:45<Jake_>any warnings given beforehand? Aren't the resources given dedicated though
19:45<jiggawattz>sure - memory and disk are dedicated
19:45<jiggawattz>disk space - not I/O
19:46<Jake_>is it on the ToS?
19:46<jiggawattz>VPS is shared
19:46<Jake_>how long can all cores be used for?
19:46<@caker>Jake_: Don't worry about it. Linode is great for Minecraft hosting. Go nuts.
19:47<@caker>we host many minecraft servers
19:47<Ikaros>Just be sure to take precautions when you do, is all.
19:47<jiggawattz>yeah - Minecraft isn't a CPU abuser
19:47<Jake_>Is it better than vultr for minecraft hosting?
19:47<jiggawattz>vultr sucks
19:48<jiggawattz>Linode and RamNode are the only good VPS providers
19:48<jiggawattz>BuyVM is decent to
19:48<jiggawattz>you can get a VPS with a dedicated core from RamNode and BuyVM actually
19:49<jiggawattz>then you can hit that core 24/7
19:49<jiggawattz>I like my Linode Japan though
19:49<jiggawattz>nobody else has that
19:51<Jake_>does linode have any plans to provide in Australia?
19:52<arlen>nothing public
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20:03<Jake_>whats actually so bad about vultr
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20:13<AlexMax>Jake_, It's a little....sparse
20:14<AlexMax>and their DDOS protection as far as I can tell doesn't actually work
20:14<Jake_>oh ok, wait does linode have ddos protection?
20:14<AlexMax>linode's ddos protection is nullrouting your IP
20:14<AlexMax>and hoping they stop
20:14<Eugene>Every day I'm Lindoin'
20:14<AlexMax>like what happened to me a few months ago
20:15<AlexMax>unfortunately for the ddoser, i had a backup image on digitalocean and i just spun up the backup
20:16<AlexMax>I think I confused the linode support rep who told me about my ddos by resonding very cheerfully and uncaring
20:16<Eugene>My unscientific experience with Linode over (10?) years is that Linode support will put up with a lot more crap than any other host I have found, and doesn't care very much about non-malicious ab(normal)use, until it affects other customers. I have never been null-routed since the 40Gbit network revolution
20:16<AlexMax>"Oh, thanks for letting me know!"
20:16<AlexMax>"You're a peach!"
20:17<Eugene>I think that what happens with a lot of people is they forget to iptables DROP traffic that they don't care about, which leads to any decent-sized DoS becoming an abuse issue for neighbors
20:17<AlexMax>"You're welcome..." *why doesn't this dude care that his linode is null-routed?*
20:17<Eugene>It doesn't hurt things very much if you just ignore the taffic - thats all a null-route is doing anyway...
20:17<AlexMax>I drop traffic to non-service ports
20:18<Eugene>Reflection attacks are a different bag
20:18<AlexMax>people can just saturate your connection
20:18<AlexMax>and there's literally nothing you can do about it
20:18<AlexMax>the only people who can take care of it is upstream
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20:18<Eugene>Yes, I'm aware of how saturated links work
20:18<FluffyFoxeh>Eugene: if someone is flooding you with packets, how does dropping them prevent them from still taking up bandwidth in the pipe?
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20:18<AlexMax>and now you're shelling out money to try and prevent somebody with $5 booter from taking you down
20:18<Eugene>FluffyFoxeh - it doesn't! But it also doesn't matter until they are actually filling your pipe. Its not the pipe that fills ifrst for most people
20:19<Eugene>Especially not with 40Gbit
20:19<AlexMax>cloudflare works okay if you're running web services
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20:19<AlexMax>but if you're running game servers like me
20:19<FluffyFoxeh>Eugene: if the bandwidth isn't an issue then why does Linode nullroute?
20:19<AlexMax>i think the only effective deterrent is going with a host that actually offers DDoS protection worth a snuff
20:20<FluffyFoxeh>I just don't see how dropping packets at the endpoint helps. Not arguing, just don't understand
20:20<Eugene>FluffyFoxeh - because dumb firewalls will respond with a ICMP Unrachable, which fills your OUTBOUND pipe and that leads to a nullroute for reflection attacks
20:20<AlexMax>I've heard good things about OVH, but that involves hosting your game server in canada, which may not be acceptable to everyone
20:20<FluffyFoxeh>Eugene: I see
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20:20<AlexMax>i've been ddos'ed on vultr before, their ddos protection isn't worth anything
20:20<Eugene>Like I said, I have never seen a null-route due to incoming packet-flood DoS since the network upgrades. That does not mean they don;'t happen, I jsut haven't pissed anybody off that far yet
20:20<FluffyFoxeh>That is plausible, I wonder if it bears out in theory
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20:20<FluffyFoxeh>in practice
20:20<AlexMax>Not that I get ddosed on a regular basis
20:21<Eugene>I have gigabit at home. I am the one who floods.
20:21<AlexMax>i've had servers for like almost a decade
20:21<AlexMax>and I got nailed by two in one month
20:21<Eugene>Another one that gets people: its not bitspeed, its packets-per-second.
20:21<AlexMax>one on linode, one on vultr
20:21<AlexMax>I specifically put the 'problematic' server on vultr for that very reason
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20:22<AlexMax>because i don't give a toss if i lose my vultr account
20:22<AlexMax>but i would be very annoyed if linode dropped me
20:22<AlexMax>because I like them a great deal, you get a lot for your dollar
20:23<Eugene>I also have never seen Linode close an account without malicious abuse. Not even mine.
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20:24<AlexMax>I'm not sure if caker has softened on this stance since then, especially considering how much more prevalent ddosing is these days
20:25<FluffyFoxeh>fwiw that's a really long time ago
20:25<AlexMax>I'm certinaly not a script kiddie, and I try not to attract the attention of such people
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20:28<nate>I imagine the 3 strike rule's "requirements" have varied greatly since 2007 (considering how much better the hardware is as well as the bandwidth capacities)
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20:30<Eugene>That's also conjecture about what is probably intended for the then bottom-bargain-bin $20/mo plan
20:30<Eugene>I would be very surprised to see anything like a "please leave" on an account that spends a decent amount each month
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20:38<FluffyFoxeh>I bet the $5 plan attracts more of "those people"
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21:06<AlexMax>I spend like....$20 a month
21:06<AlexMax>I think
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22:03<ausjke>can I use linode to host p2p website that is used for video surveillance p2p video viewing
22:03<ausjke>the video will not go through this, it's mainly used to punch holes on NAT routers
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22:09<FluffyFoxeh>ausjke: As long as it's not illegal, sure
22:09<Zimsky>it's only illegal if you get caught
22:10<dwfreed>Zimsky: ...
22:10<Zimsky>hi dwfreed
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22:12<ausjke>FluffyFoxeh: thanks. totally legal of course, home cameras for the public
22:13<arlen>home cameras for the public
22:13<arlen>so porn?
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22:13<FluffyFoxeh>arlen pls
22:14*arlen shows himself out
22:15<ausjke>arlen: nope, too competitve in the porn industry, no way to win customers :)
22:15<ausjke>that's a joke, no this is a typical surveillance setting
22:16<arlen>do the people with the home cameras know they're public?
22:16<FluffyFoxeh>they're not public, they're *for* the public
22:16<FluffyFoxeh>like a product
22:16<FluffyFoxeh>that you sell to the public
22:17<Zimsky>you're a product
22:17<Zimsky>we should sell you to the public
22:17<arlen>well they asked about a site that would be used to view
22:25<ausjke>this is pretty standard practice these days, you login to review, nothing recorded to the server, but if someone has your password they can view too, just like your email etc
22:32<nate>arlen: Do you mean do they realize that many of them are publically exposed by default? I imagine no, they don't
22:32<nate>Thankfully I've always made sure mine had some sort of login-wall, or worst case I'd probably just proxy it through one
22:33<arlen>ausjke: so like Nest minus the saving, yup no problems using Linode for that
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22:36<ausjke>arlen: yes, but there is a local hard drive to store videos if someone wants that though, but no, no cloud storage with a monthly fee etc
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22:50<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Centralized hosting control panel? <>
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