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#linode IRC Logs for 2017-04-19

---Logopened Wed Apr 19 00:00:05 2017
---Daychanged Wed Apr 19 2017
00:00<dwfreed>synfinatic: I mean I'll be at 0 at 2017-04-30 23:59:59 UTC-0400
00:00<synfinatic>huh. maybe you're doing it wrong :)
00:01<dwfreed>My Linodes are off, because I haven't gotten around to setting them up
00:01<synfinatic>if a server is on the internet and nobody talks to it, does it really exist?
00:01<dwfreed>at least they can't be hacked (they're not even deployed)
00:01<synfinatic>hmmmm... not sure "off" really counts as a real linode
00:01<dwfreed>I own it, I'm paying for it
00:01<dwfreed>it's a real Linode
00:02<synfinatic>you should at least mine bitcoin with it then. maybe after a year you'd make $0.0001 to help recoup your expenses
00:03<dwfreed>lol
00:03<dwfreed>mining bitcoin is actually a violation of the terms of service
00:03<synfinatic>i may be slightly optimistic in that off the cuff calculation
00:04<Nivex>folding@home?
00:04<synfinatic>seti@home
00:04<dwfreed>same problem
00:04<dwfreed>both violations of the terms of service
00:04<Nivex>what are you planning to set them up to do?
00:04<dwfreed>the London Linode will be the other end of a GRE tunnel at some point
00:05<dwfreed>+ SSH tunneling
00:05<dwfreed>the Newark Linode will probably be my IPv6 tunnel gateway
00:06<dwfreed>the Dallas Linode, I haven't decided yet
00:07<dwfreed>(I only have 3 Linodes, right now)
00:08<Nivex>so why keep them? allocate new ones when you're ready so you're not wasting money
00:09<millisa>he likes the IP's.
00:09<dwfreed>the London Linode is holding its IP
00:09<dwfreed>the IP is considered in the UK for a certain British media company
00:09<synfinatic>there are 2^32-1 IP's, but this one is mine
00:10*Nivex makes the TARDIS sound
00:10<dwfreed>Nivex: bingo
00:10<synfinatic>oh that's useful. but i *cough* get my BTSports content via other means
00:10<arlen>usenet?
00:10<synfinatic>sure. something likethat
00:11*arlen nods
00:11<Nivex>alrighty, it's now tomorrow in US/Eastern. Off to bed with me.
00:12<synfinatic>enjoy the Zzzzzz's
00:14<Cromulent|2>dwfreed: *grumble* people not paying their TV license *grumble*
00:14<Cromulent|2>I actually think the BBC should let foreigners pay the TV license so they can get the content as well
00:15<dwfreed>Cromulent|2: I agree, and I would
00:15<dwfreed>Cromulent|2: their TV license fees would probably drop noticeably, and they'd have even more funding to make cool shit
00:21<FluffyFoxeh>tfw you want to pay for things but you can't
00:21<FluffyFoxeh>not for lack of money but they just won't let you
00:30<dwfreed>FluffyFoxeh: *exactly*
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00:47<Peng>for example, when you want to pay for a fighter jet, but the government...
00:48<millisa>there was a blue angel fa18 on ebay about 10 years back
00:49<millisa>it would have gone nicely with that brazilian aircraft carrier for sale the same year
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00:57<nate>Cromulent|2: Pretty sure the BBC does/will soon in the form of their online viewing service (competing with netflix), assuming it's out by now
00:58<Peng>That always goes well
00:59<nate>Peng: Well they nuked the Dr Who license with netflix, in anticipation of launching it on their own platform. I imagine there are a few other shows they have that outside-UK people want to watch
00:59<nate>They did have a few in the past I liked but they got rid of them all far too early
01:02<Cromulent|2>the BBC has some excellent TV programmes - Red Dwarf and The Fast Show being two of my favourites
01:03<FluffyFoxeh>maybe I'm too picky with regard to the delivery of my movies/tv shows. I want something that I can play anywhere and is stored on something I physically own
01:04<FluffyFoxeh>blu-rays are k except the DRM makes them a pain on Linux
01:04<FluffyFoxeh>so I sometimes buy a blu ray and then just pirate it anyway :p
01:05<Cromulent|2>FluffyFoxeh: I always buy physical discs - in fact my collection is so large I've run out of space to store it
01:05<Cromulent|2>but yeah blu-rays are a PITA
01:05<Cromulent|2>I'm waiting for an UHD Blu-ray drive for PCs to come out so I can put it in an HTPC with PowerDVD 17
01:06<FluffyFoxeh>I don't know why they bother with DRM. The stuff invariably gets ripped anyway
01:07<arlen>makes them feel warm and fuzzy
01:07<Cromulent|2>to play UHD Blu-rays on a PC your CPU needs Intel SGX instructions which allows programs to create secure memory regions that not even the kernel can read - that is what DRM has produced now
01:07<FluffyFoxeh>that is cancer
01:08<dwfreed>so anybody with an AMD CPU need not apply
01:09<Cromulent|2>most Intel CPUs don't have it either - you need a Kaby Lake CPU to support UHD Blu-ray playback
01:09<Cromulent|2>and your graphics card needs to support HDCP 2.2 or you need to use integrated graphics
01:10<Cromulent|2>so Nvidia 10 series only for the time being I think - not sure about AMD support for HDCP 2.2
01:10<Cromulent|2>but you pretty much need an entirely brand new computer if you want to play UHD Blu-rays
01:11<dwfreed>there are already decrypters for HDCP 2.2, iirc, so it's pretty moot
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01:17<Cromulent|2>dwfreed: so it is - just read about it - I didn't know that
01:18<dwfreed>DRM arms race
01:18<dwfreed>and the content providers have already lost
01:19<dwfreed>the only downside of an HDCP decrypter is that you have to still play the content to rip it
01:23<Cromulent|2>well at least you can rip Blu-rays with MakeMKV I'm sure they'll crack UHD Blu-rays at some point so you can rip those as well
01:23<dwfreed>yep, likely
01:24<FluffyFoxeh>I wonder how much money they'd save by just dropping the whole scheme
01:24<Cromulent|2>I still like owning the disc though - it is like owning old vinyl records - it is part of the fun
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01:36<muthukumar>hello
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01:46<Jack_>hi
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02:01<Zimsky>how did I miss level3 buying out black lotus
02:03<FluffyFoxeh>?
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02:11<Peng>did they rename it to Bl3ck L3tus ?
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02:50<justspititout>hi
02:51<justspititout>?
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02:51<justspititout>any human
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02:53<FluffyFoxeh>nope, only foxes
02:55<dwfreed>Peng: the correct name would be Bl4ck L0tus
02:56<Peng>13V31 3
02:56<dwfreed>lol
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05:23<BR4life>Hey i have to ask.. can I install python libs on my lisnode ubuntu?
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05:47<vivek_>Hi
05:47<vivek_>Any one there?
05:49<vivek_>@abrining
05:52<Peng>Hello. Please don't go through the entire nick list in alphabetical order.
05:57<grawity>or in any order, for that matter
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06:15<vivek_>Hi
06:15<vivek_>are you there
06:15<vivek_>Hello peng
06:16<Peng>...
06:18<vivek_>We are using Linode from last 7 months recently i have closed my account in the beginning of this month.
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06:20<vivek_>after closing the account, I got any update from my management that they require Invoice from the beginning of this linode instance , so how can i get the invoice now.
06:21<Peng>I'd suggest emailing Linode.
06:21<Peng>!contact
06:21<linbot>https://www.linode.com/contact
06:21<vivek_>ok thank you
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06:24<Peng>That went well.
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06:33<Zimsky>grawity++
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08:00<linbot>New news from forum: Customer Testimonials • Ever felt a 'Thank You' just wasn't enough? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14551&p=73293#p73293>
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08:39<linbot>all hail mcintosh o/
08:39<Knofte>Yo champs, seems like your redirect of security.ubuntu.com is down, the :af37 IP doesnt respond when doing apt-get install .
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08:40<Peng>What's a "redirect of security.ubuntu.com"?
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08:41<Knofte>Peng: well, if you lookup the ip it resolves to actual IPs of ubuntu, however when doing an apt-get install you get Linodes IPs, i guess doing some kind of transparent proxy redirect.
08:42<@nbrewer>Knofte: I've run into this before, that repo doesn't seem to like IPv6 sometimes
08:42<@nbrewer>have you tried forcing IPv4? my guess is it'll work
08:42<Knofte>nbrewer: I haven't tried that no, i've never had issues before, so just assumed it broke :p
08:42<Peng>Knofte: I don't think there's any sort of transparent proxy redirect.
08:43<Peng>Why do you say there is? What's the full IP?
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08:44<Peng>For one thing, http://mirrors.linode.com/ *does* include the -security repos, if you enjoy your security updates fast and out-of-date.
08:44<Knofte>Peng: because apt-get reports ip 2a01:7e00:1::b24f:af37 which is a lonode ip.
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08:44<Peng>Knofte: for security.ubuntu.com?
08:44<Knofte>correct. but only when apt-get'ing. not via dns-lookup.
08:44<Knofte>hence it looks like a transparent proxy ;)
08:45<Peng>It says security.ubuntu.com's IP is a Linode IP? It's not just downloading the package from -updates?
08:45<Peng>Or sources.list is explicitly configured to get -security from mirrors.ubuntu.com?
08:45<Peng>mirrors.linode.com*
08:46<Knofte>nbrewer: works fine with ipv4, cheers.
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09:20<shafqat>anybody there
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09:34<Celti>16 seconds.
09:34<Celti>People have no patience anymore.
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09:50<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials • [TOP TIP] Hot inotify events (execute scripts based on filesystem changes) <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14737&p=73294#p73294>
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10:16*Dania slaps cmcdonald around a bit with a large fishbot
10:19<@nbrewer>Dania: please don't do that. if you have a question, ask.
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10:39<alexf>!to Dania ask
10:39<linbot>Dania: If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read http://alexfornuto.com/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
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10:50<yamhs>LoadBalancers can support 20,000 concurrent users...is there a way to combine them to be able to support more?
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10:51<yamhs>Also - are there any rules of thumb about how many concurrent users an individual linode server can support? Understand most of this will depend on server and the application running.
10:56<cnf>heh, i have seen nodebalancers handle far less than that :P
10:57<yamhs>less, dang
10:57<cnf>200 to 300 req / second, and we had 2 to 3 seconds of response time
10:58<yamhs>hmm so something more robust is in order
10:58<cnf>well, not nececarely
10:58<cnf>that usecase also stressed traefik and haproxy tremendously
10:59<yamhs>woocommerce site limited traffic, but getting into more and more flash sales and email blasts. Next blast is to 500k subscribers
10:59<yamhs>Thinking less than half will even open the email
10:59<cnf>it has a specifically tunes haproxy atm, running on a linode 12GB, doing 300 req / sec
10:59<cnf>and it's using most of the 6 cores
11:00<cnf>tuned*
11:00<yamhs>gotcha
11:00<cnf>but that has _zero_ connection reuse
11:00<cnf>so it's connect, ssl negotiation, get content, never connect again
11:02<yamhs>hm
11:02<yamhs>e-commerce will have more overhead than that
11:02<yamhs>lots of connections
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11:13<cnf>yohomer: you mean less overhead :P
11:13<cnf>yohomer: sorry
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11:22<MajObviousman>cnf: just like dad in the 4th grade
11:22<MajObviousman>I'm still waiting for him to return with that gallon of milk, though I think it'll be spoiled by now
11:23<cnf>:P
11:24<linbot>New news from status: Linode Critical Xen Maintenance <https://status.linode.com/incidents/qgm34hm0m8by>
11:25<relidy>:sigh: Can't wait to get my last legacy machines off Xen.
11:27<Peng>:<
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12:00<shuxiao9058>Hi
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13:02<Debu>hi
13:02<millisa>Greetings
13:02<arlen>hey
13:02<Debu>thanks
13:02<Debu>linode is all about linux server
13:03<Debu>no windows?
13:03<arlen>!windows
13:03<linbot>It is possible to run Windows on !kvm Linodes. Here's a set of unofficial instructions: https://github.com/linode/docs/pull/501
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13:24<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
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13:27<Elros>Hi, why can't I set a CNAME as subdomain?
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13:29<Elros>There's someone here?
13:29<millisa>lots of people are here
13:29<@nbrewer>Elros: you can't set a CNAME for root domains, but you should be able to add a CNAME for a subdomain
13:31<Elros>When I try to add a subdomain like: subsub.mydomain.comi receive "You have entered an invalid target. It must be a valid hostname."
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13:34*Elros slaps nbrewer around a bit with a large fishbot
13:34<arlen>rude
13:34<Elros>hahaha sorry
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13:41<Peng>What's the target? It sounds like it's invalid.
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13:51<kamar>any startup plan
13:51<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • DNS Manager: How long to render a zone? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14738&p=73295#p73295>
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13:51<kamar>wan to use linode ,eagerly looking for startup credit
13:52<Elros>I got it! Was the "aliases to"... CNAME has to be a domain, IP is not valid!
13:53<millisa>kamar: if you go look at the getting started guide, there's probably still a promo code on it
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13:57<Peng>Elros: You're right. If you want the target to be an IP, use an A (IPv4) or AAAA (IPv6) record.
13:57<Elros>Thanks guys :D
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14:02<Peng>Another poor soul has learned more about DNS :<
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14:51<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • DNS Manager: How long to render a zone? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14738&p=73296#p73296>
14:53<Eugene>Are the #linode logs of yore no longer available? linbot doesn't seem to have them anymore. I have https://itvends.com/irc/linode/ available now
14:54<@jfred>looks like mikegrb's are still up http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/linode/2017/04/19
14:54<millisa>there was a gap around xmas
15:01<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • DNS Manager: How long to render a zone? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14738&p=73297#p73297>
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15:03<MajObviousman>Peng: poor soul? More like recently enlightened soul
15:04*jfred <3 DNS
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16:32<anew>if i wanted to setup a reseller plan with linode i'd have to do everything?
16:33<arlen>yes
16:33<arlen>linode doesn't have reseller specific plans
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18:02<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Smaller VPS plan? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14608&p=73298#p73298>
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18:12<linbot>New news from forum: Performance and Tuning • Disable kdump? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14715&p=73256#p73256>
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18:13<MajObviousman>smaller than $5/mo geez, get a life
18:14<arlen>where's my penny linode
18:14<MajObviousman>you need smaller, start using containers or chroots
18:14<MajObviousman>I wonder if VPSNOOB stopped to consider if Linode wants to compete with Ramnode or Vultr for the nosebleed seats
18:14*MajObviousman would suspect not
18:15<Eugene>ur a node
18:16<relidy>[TOP TIP] Eugene Linodes
18:20<MajObviousman>I SAY, IS THAT A TOP TIP I SPY? WOULD A SIR HAND ME MY SPECTACLES SO I MAY INVESTIGATE MORE CLOSESLY
18:21*arlen hands MajObviousman his spectacles.
18:24<dwfreed>MajObviousman: Linode is already in the nosebleed seats at $5/mo
18:26<MajObviousman>CAPITAL
18:31<@nbrewer>haha i really like the "nosebleed seats" analogy
18:31<@nbrewer>although, at least for what i do, 1GB RAM + 20GB disk space is hardly nosebleed, even if it is cheap
18:34<atian>do you want low quality tenants because this is how you get them
18:34<atian>i for one enjoy
18:34<atian>chaos
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18:37<AlexMax>I wanted to poke fun at the 640k joke\
18:37<AlexMax>but as it turns out
18:37<AlexMax>xenix was a thing
18:37<AlexMax>and did in fact run on PC/XT's
18:37<AlexMax>that had 640k RAM max
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19:01<Eugene>Wow, this is a first. chiark.greenend.ork.uk is down
19:01<Eugene>I.... dont know how to install putty now
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19:02<pharaun>rip
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19:03<Eugene>Yay, found it in a Downloads folder.
19:04<dwfreed>Eugene: use kitty, problem solved
19:05<dwfreed>also the URL selection is nice
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19:07<Eugene>I want less features in my TTY, not more
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19:08<francisco>Hello
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19:48<blis1>is there a trial period offered?
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19:48<arlen>there's a 7 day money back
19:48<blis1>thanks
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19:48<arlen>welcome
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20:33<kar21us>does anyone know how to deploy a stackscript using curl
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20:39<dzho>does anyone know how to avoid fork bombs when using curl | sh
20:44<wraeth>have appropriate ulimits set for that user?
20:45<wraeth>well, ideally you wouldn't directly pipe curl to a shell, but assuming that's non-optional..
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21:05<Eugene>Replace /bin/sh with a php interpreter
21:06<Eugene>Tada, no more curlsh vulnerabilities. Just php ones.
21:06<Cromulent>php makes everything better
21:06*nate recalls the guy in here last year that wrote a php-cgi handler, in PHP
21:07<Cromulent>one of these days someone is going to write an operating system in PHP and then the world will end
21:08<AlexMax>i'd rather use php than node
21:08<Eugene>!php
21:08<linbot>http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
21:08<Eugene>Oh thats not the one I wanted
21:08<Eugene>Still good
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21:12<nate>Eugene: Also largely outdated even at the time it was written, and also played a lot on stuff developers do bad (but don't have to). It's a shame people keep linking that one around but not the ones w/ valid retorts against it
21:12<Eugene>"PHP is a hell of a drug."
21:13<nate>Meanwhile here's a world ender for crom when he's back; https://sourceforge.net/projects/php-os/
21:13<nate>lol
21:13<nate>PHP -and- JS
21:13<nate>based OS :P
21:13<Eugene>Oh good, I didn't know the right google terms
21:13<nate>Eugene: yes but much like weed, in moderation and with control it can be good for you
21:13<AlexMax>nate, there is only one retort
21:13<AlexMax>"Python 3"
21:14<Eugene>nate - the problem is that I live in Seattle and have an unreasonable budget for "computers and drugs"
21:14<Eugene>I lump them together in the budget because its easier to rationalize another Linode vs another couple grams
21:14<nate>Eugene: Well that's why I use PHP to fund my budgets :P
21:14<AlexMax>also, the design of python makes it almost impossible to make fast
21:15<AlexMax>as google found out
21:15<AlexMax>the hard way
21:15<nate>I thought recent Python3 stuff was actually half-decent
21:15*nate still likes what they did performance-wise with PHP7, even if they didn't clean up some of the syntax oddities
21:15<AlexMax>literally everything in the language is open to you in some way or another - python is only a simple language by convention
21:16<Eugene>I mean, "tight inner loops" can/should be forked out to an optimized C module. The common wisdom is that for 99% of thing python is "fast enough", or can be made multi-process without tooooo much work(and sets you up for horizontal scalign later!)
21:16<Eugene>But yes, interpreted languages are slow. Wow, so edgy
21:16<AlexMax>PHP is an example of a language that was made significantly faster in the switchover from 5 to 7
21:16<AlexMax>and they did it with only minimal backwards compatibility breakage
21:17<Eugene>I honestly have not bothered to even read about 7.
21:17<nate>And mostly reasonable backwards compatibility breakage (ie; no more mysql_* shit)
21:17<nate>Eugene: It passes HHVM in performance
21:17<nate>that should more or less be the main summary anyone needs
21:17<AlexMax>nate, eh, that's not why it's fast
21:17<nate>AlexMax: No no, I know
21:17<AlexMax>i'm trying to find what parse thing they changed
21:18<nate>I just meant the minimal backwards compatibility breakage was done by finally gettng rid of shit they had deprecated forever
21:18<AlexMax>here we go
21:18<Eugene>to the.... DANGER ZONE!?
21:19<AlexMax>https://secure.php.net/manual/en/migration70.incompatible.php#migration70.incompatible.variable-handling.indirect
21:19<AlexMax>this is probably the thorniest BC break that wasn't deprecated stuff like mysql_* and PHP4-style objects
21:20<AlexMax>but all you have to do is write the code like the far right
21:20<nate>yeah. It's mostly mysql_* stuff I see people complain about
21:21<nate>"why mah database no longer work", maybe cause you're using shit that's been throwing deprecation warnings for like 3 years?
21:21<AlexMax>anyway, armin ronacher wrote a series of fascinating articles about the broken stuff in python
21:21<AlexMax>how "slots" work
21:21<AlexMax>why the unicode implementation in python 3 is such a trash fire
21:22<AlexMax>and the best part is that this is coming from the creator of Flask, so it's not some outsider pooh-poohing the language and anybody who dares to use it
21:22<Nivex>so if Python's old and busted, what's the new hotness? ... and don't you dare say JS
21:22<Eugene>Anytime somebody mentions a problem with $LANGUAGE that I have never heard of and declares the language to be dead/obsolete/godlike I assume they are doing stupid things and move on to drinking. Unfortunately I am on antibiotics this week, and can't have alcohol
21:22<AlexMax>I'm not trying to say that Python is bad per se, more that PHP haters annoy me
21:23<Eugene>I don't hate PHP; it does a good enough job of that by itself ;-)
21:23<AlexMax>and there are plenty of blind spots in their favorite language that are usually a little more subtle
21:23<AlexMax>Nivex, I actually am really enjoying the time I've spent with Go
21:24<AlexMax>I feel like it allows me to do similar sorts of things to Node, but in a language that actually makes writing "asynchronous" code much eaiser
21:24<Nivex>I've been seeing a fair amount of that around these days. Mattermost being a fairly prominent example.
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21:26<Eugene>My problems with Go all come around to my abusive stepmother.... not one I use either.
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21:26<AlexMax>maybe one day the entire javascript will settle on async/await and I'll finally be able to touch JS again without getting the jibbles.
21:27<AlexMax>hahaha I almost forgot
21:28<AlexMax>if you use vim
21:28<AlexMax>i hope you never have to come face to face with the horror that is vimL
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