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#linode IRC Logs for 2017-11-03

---Logopened Fri Nov 03 00:00:07 2017
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00:17<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • NGINX, how to block a fake referral? <>
00:29<@sjacobs>dsp: sorry we couldn't resolve that sooner. i just updated your ticket.
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01:36<hackster>u from?
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01:38<Eugene>Every night I'm a towel
01:39<dcraig>you get to be a towel for an extra hour saturday night
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01:48<test>hi, is it possible to buy multiple linodes in a single account and connect them, e.g. one for webapp, one for mysql etc
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01:56<test>ok. thnaks
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05:18<Suraj>Hi anyone is there?
05:19<jra>Hello Linode Support! Can someone please help me with a payment related query?
05:19<jra>I am from India, can I use a Debit card?
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05:19<Suraj>which linode datacenter is best for indian website?
05:19<Guest8180>Debit Card has international payments enabled
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05:21<Suraj>which linode datacenter is best for indian website?
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05:22<@sjacobs>Guest8180: debit card is fine
05:22<@sjacobs>Suraj: you can check latency there
05:22<Guest8180>@sjacobs Thanks! Signing up now!
05:23<Guest8180>ANyone know of Coupon codes available?
05:23<Suraj>which linode datacenter is best for indian website?
05:23<ponas>Suraj: I'd guess Singapore
05:23<ponas>not sure how the routing is tho
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05:23<Belgian>Usability question for my application case. Can I use a linode server to install a VPN server where remote VPN clients connect to and share there data?
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05:34<Suraj>I checked speed of both datacenter singapore and tokyo both show same speed
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05:38<Woet>thanks for letting us know
05:39<Guest8180>@Suraj - I would recommend comparing both with Frankfurt or other euro servers
05:40<Suraj>@Guest8180: others are far away as compare to these two datacenters
05:41<Suraj>so i think i need to choose any own of these tokyo or singapore
05:42<Woet>Suraj: what makes you think physical distance is the only thing thats relevant?
05:42<Woet>[16:22:52] <@sjacobs> Suraj: you can check latency there
05:45<Suraj>@Woet - I think nearest hosting server is better thn others
05:45<Woet>based on what?
05:45<Suraj>i have checked but it's shows same speed
05:46<Suraj>actually i don't know may be distance
05:46<Suraj>shortest distance :)
05:48<Suraj>@Woet: I'm new? if you have any suggestion please tell me
05:50<Woet>[16:22:52] <@sjacobs> Suraj: you can check latency there
05:51<Woet>i pasted it for a reason
05:57<ponas>Suraj: you'll want to check latency, not speed
05:58<ponas>aka ping
06:05<Suraj>how to check?
06:09<Suraj>you mean by this: ping
06:11<Woet>Suraj: you probably shouldnt be buying an unmanaged linux server if you don't know what ping is.
06:12<ponas>Woet has a point
06:12<ponas>one has to start somewhere though
06:12<Woet>sure, a local VM
06:12<Suraj>frankfurt : Minimum = 166ms, Maximum = 252ms, Average = 198ms
06:13<Suraj>Singapore: Minimum = 166ms, Maximum = 252ms, Average = 198ms
06:13<Suraj>Tokyo: Minimum = 164ms, Maximum = 178ms, Average = 167ms
06:14<Suraj>Singapore: Minimum = 97ms, Maximum = 139ms, Average = 111ms
06:14<ponas>lower average = better
06:14<Suraj>so singapore is better??
06:15<ponas>yes, though ~100ms isn't exactly ideal
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06:25<Suraj>thanks @ponas
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06:47<tanja84dk>Does anyone know if I shall convert from a mothly account to a hourly and what issues I may will face?
06:49<tanja84dk>because I'm actually unhappy that linode are directly saying just because you are on a monthly account then you dont have access to all the vps tier versions
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06:51<@sjacobs>tanja84dk: are you paying monthly or annually? for monthly, the cost is the same.
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06:51<tanja84dk>sjacobs: I have been paying monthly for several years
06:52<@sjacobs>then the monthly cost for hourly billing won't change.
06:52<tanja84dk>but lets say I needed a small 1024 linode for lets say a moth then its just bad luck because you are saying that my account arent allowed
06:53<tanja84dk>and also why is there so many server migrations from linode side?
06:53<@sjacobs>if you are on hourly, you would get that 1024 without having to pay upfront. you wouldn't have to deal for the refund of the partial month, either.
06:54<@sjacobs>lots of things going on at once. dallas going to the new dc. upgrades in other DCs.
06:55<tanja84dk>so in other way you guy's are saying go hourly or find another provider I guess about the account
06:56<tanja84dk>sjacobs: yeah but you are actually taking productions servers offline all the time so I would actually say your uptime its not like what a costumer expect
06:56<@sjacobs>maybe i can give a better answer if i understand the issues or inconvenience hourly billing causes?
06:57<@sjacobs>we always have our 99.9% uptime guarantee that you are more than welcome to open a ticket about. we would gladly take a look.
06:57<tanja84dk>the inconvenience is you are forcing people to change there accounts not by choice but by force
06:57<@sjacobs>not really something we can handle in IRC.
06:58<tanja84dk>like london1057 (KVM) is getting forced down also
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07:49<grawity>huh I just wgetted an .iso from Microsoft at 150 MB/s
07:49<grawity>nice network
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10:10<mahan>i have a question
10:10<mahan>anyone here?
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11:20<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • LISH Web Console lost color and scrolling <>
11:25<Cromulent>if I could wish one thing about Linode it would be that they update DNS as soon as you make changes instead of having to wait 15mins for the update to take effect
11:26<Cromulent>setting up things like office 365 is a pain having to wait 15 mins for the update to go through
11:27<Cromulent>I mean even if they offered a premium DNS service that cost $1 a month or something I'd be happy to pay - it would still be cheaper than Route 53
11:34<ericoc>having them slave your dns zones is an option, the notifies are instant afaik
11:35<ericoc>but you have to maintain your master
11:36<dwfreed>!point ericoc
11:36<linbot>dwfreed: Point given to ericoc. (1)
11:36<ericoc>!point linode
11:36<linbot>ericoc: Point given to linode. (1)
11:37<Cromulent>I've never run a DNS server before but I'll look into it
11:40<ericoc>bind9 <3 I guess nsd is an option too
11:52<tanja84dk>I guess is starting to fall of about how fast they response on tickets 2 tickets about to difference things has not been responded to for 4½ hour
11:52<Peng>or Knot or PowerDNS or...
11:53*Peng shills for all DNS servers except BIND
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11:54<dwfreed>tanja84dk: support workload increased dramatically when Linode introduced the $5 plan
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11:55<tanja84dk>dwfreed: oh you mean the 5$ plan that not everyone is able to get
11:55<MajObviousman>not able to get?
11:55<@mcintosh>he's referring to prepaid customers not being able to use the $5 plan
11:56<MajObviousman>I think my account is still prepaid. I really should convert it over but I can't be arsed
11:56<MajObviousman>I haven't spun up a new one in, oh, 6 years?
11:56<tanja84dk>also "High Memory Instances" is not available for prepaid costumers
11:57<@mcintosh>also true
11:57<Peng>You can have 2 accounts
11:58<tanja84dk>so in general linode is actually starting to say, change your account ( forced ) or find another provider
11:58<relidy>... or do like Peng said.
11:59<tanja84dk>relidy: well some day they start to even close down our prepaid
11:59<schwa>If you're looking to resize existing linodes down to the $5 plan, it might end up being cheaper even if you lose a prepaid discount.
12:00<tanja84dk>schwa: its more the principal not that I need it
12:00<tanja84dk>its more that they say old costimers cant use it but new can
12:01<relidy>I'm an old customer. I use it.
12:01<tanja84dk>well then you have also changed your account to a new kind
12:01<schwa>I bet hourly billing makes support's life a lot easier
12:01<tanja84dk>well I dont fix something there arent foced
12:02<tanja84dk>*arent broken I meant
12:02<tanja84dk>and linode is a company so actually idc if its easier for them. Because it makes it harder for me as a costumer
12:03<schwa>I'm a little confused on the "harder" part; what part is harder? The only disadvantage I'm aware of is losing discounts in the conversion.
12:03<tanja84dk>I know when I spin up the server what it cost me that month, and that I dont know with that hourly billing
12:04<relidy>Hourly billing *is* capped at the same prices.
12:04<tanja84dk>its more I know from the start what the price is, and not that paying after the month
12:04<schwa>If you spin up a server halfway through the month, you will be charged the same amount under both plans.
12:04<tanja84dk>relidy: true but what if I create the vps the 6.
12:04<tanja84dk>then I would like to pay right away for that month
12:04<jspinosi>well it was "broken" in that it's not an ideal way to do billing for the type of service that Linode provides, not convenient for easy fast deployment, and not what people expect for the industry. It's also not tenable to support 2 different billing systems indefinitely
12:05<tanja84dk>and not getting a bill next month that I dont know what is
12:05<jspinosi>change is tough though :/
12:05<ericoc>then pay up front? put a credit on your account making a manual payment?
12:05<schwa>"getting a bill next month that I dont know what is" the invoices are itemized though?
12:06*tanja84dk thinks schwa actually dont have any buissness experience
12:06*schwa does not run a business
12:07*tanja84dk thisnks schwa then should shut up when he dont know what he talks about
12:08<Peng>schwa knows about Linode invoices
12:08<@mcintosh>tanja84dk: don't be rude
12:09<schwa>I'm just trying to understand exactly why hourly is more difficult for you. Not very invested in this though.
12:09*schwa leaves to do laundry o/
12:12*dzho was a holdout on monthly billing but has since switched with no complaints so far
12:13<ericoc>i'd really just rather not pay at all, but such is life
12:13<dzho>reason I got it was that I started when the lowest tier was $20/month and so the annual pre-pay discount was worth it to me at the time.
12:13<dzho>since then the capabilities of that plan have moved down to the lower-priced tiers so I'm saving more money at a lower tier than I saved by pre-pay.
12:14<dzho>in short ...
12:14<tanja84dk>dzho: well I dont have any discount all my vps are monthly
12:14<dzho>tanja84dk: ok
12:14<Peng>tanja84dk: So there would be no downsides to converting your account
12:15<tanja84dk>actually there are
12:15<dzho>then I guess we might be in a situation where you want what you want because you want it, and maybe you want it even more because people are telling you you shouldn't want it.
12:15<dzho>I know that desire has its own logic, so I'm not going to tell you what you should want.
12:15<tanja84dk>one thing if I move to another provider then there is going to be duoble payment
12:15<dzho>just, it worked for me. take that data point as you will.
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12:16<tanja84dk>also if I create a vps lets say the 6. Then I dont know what that will cost me that why I always prepay everything there is posible because I know everything is payed
12:17<dwfreed>you can know exactly how much it would cost you easily
12:17<dzho>your monthly cost is always, in the limit, the same as what it would be when billed monthly.
12:17<dwfreed>there are only so many hours in a month
12:17<dzho>it can only ever be cheaper
12:17<tanja84dk>also its just saying to scammers just come to linode because you have to pay in the end of the month so you are able to run from the invoice and use us for free
12:18<ericoc>you don't get to sign up with no payment method
12:18<dwfreed>Linode requires new signups to credit their account with at least $5 before they can use the service
12:18<dwfreed>they still go through all the fraud checks as part of that
12:18<tanja84dk>yeah prepaid where there arent enought money
12:19<tanja84dk>have you heard of prepaid visa cards
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12:19<dwfreed>tanja84dk: there would exist the same problem whether they paid upfront or afterward
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12:20<shifte>Hi, how much time need to linode activate the account ?
12:20<tanja84dk>dwfreed: no because if they pay up front then linode have their money
12:20*dzho sees this is well into arguing for the sake of arguing territory, since making sure linode gets paid is pretty much linode's problem.
12:20<dwfreed>shifte: it can take a few hours sometimes
12:21<dwfreed>tanja84dk: as I said, before you can even create a Linode as a new customer, you have to credit your account with at least $5
12:21<tanja84dk>dzho: that is also our problem, because if to many scammers gets into linode then their ip ranges will be blacklisted
12:21<dzho>I mean, I've used VPS providers where their lack of business skills were a sustainability problem for the business and my relationship with them (one just stopped billing me, and I kept the VPS running just to see how long it would take them to shut if off)
12:21<ericoc>dzho: who who who
12:21<dzho>but sustainability is not linode's problem.
12:21<tanja84dk>why do you think other providers are blocked by spamhaus by ip range
12:21<dzho>ericoc: pm?
12:21<ericoc>haha sure
12:22<dwfreed>tanja84dk: Linode actively works with Spamhaus to combat abuse
12:22<dwfreed>Linode has one of the best abuse departments in the industry
12:22<tanja84dk>ericoc: like thats one of the reason that many of ovh from france ip ranges are blocked by spamhaus because of spam servers
12:22<dwfreed>(which in a way is sad because it's such a low bar)
12:22<ericoc>ovh is way more known for abuse than linode
12:23<tanja84dk>dwfreed: thaty was the joke of the month, I have not have nothing but problem with their abuse team
12:23<dwfreed>who, Linode's?
12:23<tanja84dk>ericoc: yes because they let scammers get in and that will also happen here
12:23<dwfreed>anyway, OVH is entirely prepaid
12:23<tanja84dk>dwfreed: yes
12:23<dwfreed>so the point you're trying to make is completely off
12:23<ericoc>tanja84dk: you realize linode's been in business over 10 years right?
12:23<dzho>yeah so let's talk about how prepaid prevents this problem for OVH
12:23*schwa gets back from laundry and tries not to comment but fails
12:24<tanja84dk>no because that will happen here also
12:24<schwa>tanja84dk: compare and
12:24<dzho>schwa: it's a new variant of The Game
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12:24<tanja84dk>but my main reason was mostly as I also stated if I move to another provider then I dont want to pay two places
12:24<schwa>linode seems to be doing pretty well with regards to spamhaus
12:24<ericoc>ooh, nice ovh got some ranges larger than /32 even, and rokso guys
12:25<tanja84dk>schwa: for now but it wont last
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12:25<schwa>hourly billing was introduced in 2014. if it was going to affect that i think it would have by now -
12:25<ericoc>tanja84dk: linode recently had their 14th birthday, when is it all going to come crashing down? lemme know so i can migrate beforehand
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12:26<dwfreed>tanja84dk: having worked for Linode, and handled emails sent to abuse@, you're going to have to give specific examples of the issues you've had
12:26<tanja84dk>ericoc: yes I know they are that old that is also the reason that I bought vps at linode for almost 6 years ago and have spent almost 3000$ here over the years
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12:26<schwa>So your complaint is, if you switch to another provider (and that provider does prepaid) you'll have two VPS bills in one month?
12:27*schwa loses The Game so hard
12:27<dwfreed>oh the hue-manatee
12:27<tanja84dk>dwfreed: well then I know mcintosh is going to kick and ban me for dicussing things there cant be said on irc because it shall he held in tickets
12:27<ericoc>i feel like mcintosh is probably not going to do that as long as you're civil
12:28<ericoc>this gif is amazing
12:28<ericoc>such a good loop
12:28<schwa>:/ but at the same time also XD
12:28<tanja84dk>ericoc: you know you cant dicuss things about tickets on irc and yes I have learned that the hard way I have been kicked for it before even that it were in a humane way
12:28<ericoc>better than supa hot fyre loop even
12:28<tanja84dk>because I were told it should be kept in tickets
12:29<dwfreed>I make comments in here about things I've said in tickets all the time
12:29<@mcintosh>tanja84dk: you are more than free to discuss the contents of your tickets here (though employees will not participate in such discussion)
12:29<schwa>That would surprise me. I would expect the only restriction is linode *employees* won't discuss your account with you in IRC.
12:29<dzho>ok, this has been fun but meh
12:29<ericoc>right, linode employees aren't going to violate customers privacy in open/public IRC lol
12:31<tanja84dk>okay there were two instance where two other linode servers were doing bruteforce attack agenst our mail server there is hosted at linode, and even that I gave lag to both abuse mail and team ticket then it were allowed to continue for almost three weeks
12:32<tanja84dk>and I dont know if the servers just gave up or they finally were closed
12:33<dwfreed>I find that hard to believe
12:33<tanja84dk>and the reason we know they continued was because we logged every connection and the dropped their connection because of the bruteforce
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12:34<tanja84dk>and that is about four years ago. Tbh I dont know how the abuse team is today because 3½ years ago then we started to outsource all abuse reports to a blocking list
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12:35<tanja84dk>And they are now automaticly reporting everything for us so we dont have to use time for it
12:36<dwfreed>4 years ago I was working at Linode, so I find that *extremely* hard to believe
12:36<tanja84dk>and yes its we started to use when we outsourced it
12:37*schwa suddenly becomes curious how old his first linode is
12:38<tanja84dk>dwfreed: sadly I dont have the logs from back then because we only keep logs for 1½ year
12:39<tanja84dk>schwa: I know our the first was a 512 mb xen created January 6 2012
12:39<tanja84dk>and I believe it costed 20$ back then
12:39<ericoc>i oddly have my first linodes id memorized.. pretty sure it was 25779
12:39<ericoc>some time in 2009 or 2010
12:40<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • LISH Web Console lost color and scrolling <>
12:40<tanja84dk>ericoc: the only reason that I remember our is because I have went back in the invoices to see how much we have spent on linode
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12:44<schwa>heh I'm only August 2014
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13:13<poky>Hi. what could be the reason behind 403 forbidden error? Suddenly. Wordpress website. Checked chmod and user/group.
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13:20<coderphive>Have you looked at your .htaccess poky?
13:22<poky>on nginx
13:23<poky>nevermind. There was some deny all line in nginx file
13:23<poky>It was placed for security reasons, but it was blocking it.
13:28<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
13:29<linbot>Every day I'm linbot
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15:18<Eugene>Don't let it go to your frond
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15:26<Zimsky>Eugene: are you still a towel?
15:29<Eugene>Not yet
15:34<Zimsky>that does not make a lot of sense
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15:51<relidy>Eugene: Was that an SG-1 joke?! If so, yay!
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16:03*relidy cheers
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16:20<jones>if your site gets like 200,000 hits a month how many concurrent users could you expect at like peak times?
16:21<Zimsky>depends on your service
16:22<jones>is there like a formula that can figure out tha numbers
16:24<millisa>no. a site that takes 200k hits in a month but is only accessed during mongolian business hours will have different peaks and peaktimes than a 200k hit/month site that only gets attention when their infomercial is on
16:26<Zimsky>even if you were to average that out evenly, it only works out to ~4.5 hits/s
16:27<Zimsky>it's not really about concurrent users, unless it's some sort of streaming service
16:27<Zimsky>it's about hits/s
16:27<Zimsky>and the complexity of the backend
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18:45<dwfreed>supposedly there might be new stuff coming to that site $soon
18:46<Peng>Will it be science?
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19:32<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Linode vs other cloud <> || Feature Request/Bug Report • Better docker support <>
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20:12<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Let's Encrypt AFTER getting my site up? <>
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20:29<chesty>reminiscing, my first linode invoice 2003-09-13 Invoice #4700 $22.64 a $10 set up fee and $12.64 partial month payment on $20/month node, the cheapest node available. I thought it only had 64M of ram, but when i open the invoice it says linode 360. I think maybe that is because of database joins and updates, not sure.
20:30<ericoc>haha, mine was a 360 when I first signed up, but a few months later became a 512 I think
20:33<chesty>they had about 400 invoices a month back then, if someone was bootstrapping a startup today as a side project and got 400 signups in the first month, they'd be planning what to do with their first billion
20:34<chesty>it was an awesome start that bootstrapped a massive industry.
20:38<chesty>here it is it was a linode 64, 1GB disk, 25GB transfer
20:47<ericoc>> CollegeLinux 2.1 (The Jedi)
20:48<Peng>> College Linux is a Debian-based live CD - a fully capable PHP5, Perl and Ruby web server, preloaded with gedit and Vim for editing scripts with syntax ...
20:49<ericoc>largest plan was 256mb??
20:50<Peng>> Processor: Dual 2.66 GHz Intel Xeon Processor, 533MHz Front Side Bus
20:51<Peng>> Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Pentium-4 Processor, 400MHz Front Side Bus
20:51<chesty>i thought there were 8 plans, can't remember, but the largest plan could only fit 2 linodes on a server.
20:53<chesty>3GB, maybe they could fit more than 2
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20:58<chesty>i guess the bigger plans came later, debian 3 80MB, fedora core 1 450MB
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21:10<Eugene>Every night I'm a towel
21:22<dwfreed>holy crap, it's chesty
21:23<chesty>hello dwfreed, i was looking over the nicks in the channel, I remember 20 or 30
21:23<dwfreed>you better remember me :P
21:24<chesty>I do, I remember you were very helpful and knowledgeable
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21:31<Peng>Do you remember that Peng_
21:41<chesty>of course. helpful and knowledgeable too. I was in a really bad way when I left, I've bounced back now.
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21:42<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Let's Encrypt AFTER getting my site up? <>
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22:04<Kozak>Hello! Trying to find the interal IP of my linode. Any suggestions?
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22:05<Peng>Internal IP?
22:05<Peng>All your IPs (and IP blocks) are listed in the Remote Access tab of the manager.
22:06<Peng>If you want a private IPv4 address, and don't yet have one, you can click a button on that page.
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22:11<Ikaros>Heh, man, browsing through Linode's history via the web's really something to see how far they've come since then.
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22:32<nate>I think I joined when 512 plans were the lowest ones
22:32<nate>maybe 256?
22:32<nate>I don't recall
22:32<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Let's Encrypt AFTER getting my site up? <>
22:32<nate>guess my invoice would have it
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22:42<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Let's Encrypt AFTER getting my site up? <>
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23:02<linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • Let's Encrypt AFTER getting my site up? <>
23:04<dwfreed>nate: Linode didn't introduce plan generations until the 512 became the 1024, so your invoices will probably lie to you
23:05<Peng>Got invoice emails?
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23:08<nate>Man this network sometimes
23:08<nate>Peng: I should
23:08<Peng>nate: That was an unusual one.
23:08<Peng>My oldest invoice says Linode 360, which is accurate.
23:08<nate>looks like they go back to early 2011 at the earliest
23:09<nate>yeah 512
23:09<nate>for $13.52 cause of pro-rating lol
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23:14<dwfreed>somebody should probably bump the +l up temporarily
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23:15<dwfreed>3 joins per minute sucks a little bit when you have an ircd with 990 users die
23:15<Peng>Just 15 more to go!!
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23:35<Ikaros>I suppose seeing affected server endpoints in the netsplit quit message here, isn't all that surprising given the setup being run here. Since we use a definitive hub-leaf layout on our end we hide that information from non-opers, all they see is *.net *.split as we believe users have no business knowing our topology. Even the /map and /links output is flat. Some were even for outright disabling
23:35<Ikaros>that output entirely for non-opers.
23:36<Peng>That bothers me. .split isn't an active TLD.
23:36<Peng>It should be like
23:41<dwfreed>Ikaros: knowing our topology isn't helpful because ircd names don't match system names
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 04 00:00:08 2017