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#linode IRC Logs for 2018-04-29

---Logopened Sun Apr 29 00:00:50 2018
00:07<nate>Realistically? How ever many records it takes to total between 1 to 4TB I would imagine
00:08<nate>*1 to 4TB worth of records
00:08<zifnab>i would imagine there's an auto incrementing primary key, looking at the resource IDs that get returned
00:08<zifnab>even given coldfusion, i can't imagine it's not mysql
00:08<nate>Why wouldn't they just be reading it straight from the zone file?
00:09<zifnab>performance, you try reading a few thousand files
00:09<zifnab>millions, even, possibly
00:09<dwfreed>zifnab: primary keys can be longer than 32 bits
00:09<zifnab>they can be 64 bit but that's not the default
00:10<nate>zifnab: Why would you need to read a few thousand files if you're mainly only pulling them in the manager upon request?
00:10<nate>You'd only need to match the zone file being requested, each zone being it's own file
00:10<dwfreed>there are people with 1000s of zones
00:11<nate>dwfreed: Sure but how many of them are literally opening thousands of zones into browser tabs all at once to edit them?
00:12<dwfreed>even if they were organized by customer, reading the directory entries would likely take longer than a properly indexed SELECT
00:12<nate>They could still use a DB for the base "DNS manager" view
00:12<nate>Not saying they don't use one at all, but storing -all- records in it? Once you hit it could just pull from the zone file itself rather than all stored in a DB
00:13<dwfreed>and then have to parse that
00:13<dwfreed>did you know it's not actually sane to make a zone file parser?
00:13<zifnab>i'm way too fucking lazy to go time APIs and figure out if they're disk-backed or mysql-index-backed
00:13<zifnab>i can't imagine a half wit would even design it that way
00:13<zifnab>and i've seen some shit, i work in ENTERPRISE
00:15<nate>dwfreed: A lot of DNS management interfaces have worked that way w/ bare database reliance, so any variety they could have potentially sampled from to make one :P
00:15<dwfreed>they probably cheated
00:15<nate>I'd be surprised if nobody ever made one in coldfusion in all this time even, even with it's not-really-popular-ness
00:15<dwfreed>anyway, why re-parse a file every time, when a database can store a split-out representation for you?
00:17<nate>just seems like a potentially unneccessary failure point I suppose to me, and the 15~ minute update cycle just reminds me of cron'd rndc setup's I've seen in the past w/ other DNS managers
00:17<zifnab>it takes 37ms to get a request from the v3 api, it takes 34ms to get the not authorized error page
00:17<zifnab>i can't imagine they load and parse zone files in 3ms
00:18<dwfreed>nate: I mean, if the database fails, the Manager is not useful anyway
00:18<zifnab>hell i'm horribly wrong, let me redo that
00:19<nate>zifnab: You don't need to if you're using something like rndc?
00:19<nate>rndc can reload per-zone
00:19<nate>so it would be loading and parsing a zone file, not files
00:20<nate>it can also add/remove zones on the fly w/ reconfig
00:21<nate>-technically- I think you can even reload explicit zone views in latest versions
00:21<dwfreed>the use of plural there was not meant to indicate it would be loading more than 1 file
00:22<dwfreed>also keep in mind that in a file-based approach, all of the webservers would need access to all of the zone files, in addition to the 5 nameservers
00:24<nate>dwfreed: Authoritive master can issue an rndc remotely, and if there is one 'master' all manager instances would be able to access it the same as a DB?
00:24<nate>Unfortunately everything is just guessing at this point, I doubt they'll ever tell specifics :P
00:24<millisa>it's cpanels, all the way down.
00:25<nate>lol, well technically that's all how cPanel does it so :P
00:25<dwfreed>rndc requires explicit authorization on the remote server
00:26<dwfreed>also rndc provides no mechanism to display a zone's contents
00:26<nate>Never said anything about it having a mechanism to display? But you can otherwise easily configure (bind anyways) to allow 'pushes/updates' from approved masters, at which point they receive the push from a master and locally trigger the rndc
00:28<dwfreed>there are exactly 3 methods to make BIND do something: rndc, DNS NOTIFY, and DNS UPDATE; the latter two do not involve rndc at all
00:29<nate>The latter two can invoke rndc on the receiving bind if it's set up to do so, ie; it doesn't require bind to like fully restart to take the new zones?
00:29<dwfreed>no they can't
00:29<dwfreed>and you cannot add new zones over DNS, you can only do that with rndc
00:30<dwfreed>citation: somebody who's read the BIND Administrator Reference Manual cover to cover
00:30<nate>I was talking about record updates, sorry, should have clarified on that.
00:31<nate>The reconfig portion is indeed local and would require an authorization tie w/ rndc to handle remotely (which in most cases does tend to be set up)
00:32<nate>But an authorized configured rndc cluster still could be a possibility here too I imagine
00:33<nate>The original point was the impression was being given that changes to bind somehow still need this big restart that requires reparsing of -all- zone files, and that hasn't been the case in a pretty long time
00:33<nate>that's all I was trying to say on :P
00:41<Eugene>dwfreed - did you find my name
00:42<Eugene>Oh sorry, reference manual.Wrong book.
00:53<zifnab>Eugene: which book is your name in
00:53<zifnab>bind for dummies?
00:54<Eugene>None of them, truthfully
00:54<Eugene>But it makes for fun at work meetings occasionall
00:54<Eugene>Its O'Reilly's DNS & Bind
00:54<Eugene>DNSSEC still sucks, so its really all a laugh
00:54<millisa>I have that hard copy up on the shelf... lets see
00:54<Eugene>PKI is goddamned hard
00:59<millisa>hrm. this is a 4th edition copy (2001-ish, bind9 was added) - was it a later ver?
01:02<Eugene>Security chapter, I believe 4ed it was 9? I have 5ed here, where it is Chapter 11, page 282
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01:02<millisa>and there you are.
01:02<millisa>page 308 in 4th
01:02<zifnab>is it him or his father
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01:03<Eugene>My father. I stylise myself with middle initial E. and suffix Jr, proffessionally
01:03<dwfreed>so your initials are EEK?
01:03<Eugene>Even though I am technically Eugene III
01:04<Eugene>Yes, although I reserve EEK and ekashp for my father as usernames, because he's historically used those
01:04<Eugene>I get "eugene"
01:04<zifnab>i thought middle names differed enough
01:04<zifnab>or something
01:04<zifnab> /shrug
01:04<zifnab>"I sometimes pay attention when people speak"
01:05<Eugene>Correct. Mine is "Evgenevich", which is why I use E., to indicate the abbreviation
01:05<Eugene>My father's is simply E
01:06<zifnab>also that's closer to a footnote
01:06<Eugene>Your mother
01:06<zifnab>(pdf is trivial to find, as with all o'reilly books)
01:06<zifnab>is a database!
01:06<Eugene>Its the intro paragraph to the chapter on security
01:06<zifnab>that's fair
01:07<Eugene>Also, running your own BIND server is stupid and I don't like it.Make it AWS' problem.
01:07<Eugene></professional opinion>
01:07<zifnab>oO arrested in toronto of all places
01:07<zifnab>better than quebec i guess
01:07<Eugene>Yeah, that's a story involving the RCMP SWAT
01:08<Peng_>Eugene: Make it AWS's problem by running two BIND servers on t2 instances in the same AZ
01:08<Eugene>That was the best xmas though. I got dad back.
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01:09<zifnab>i was 7
01:09<brandon>do activations normally take this long?
01:09<millisa>brandon: how long is 'this long'?
01:09<dwfreed>it varies wildly, depending on support load
01:09<zifnab>they take sometime between 0 and 1
01:10<brandon>i iam eager to demo linode
01:10<brandon>and compare it firt hand to vultr and digital ocean
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01:10<brandon>TicketID Summary Regarding Status Opened Last Updated 10397836 still waiting Other OPEN 2018-04-29 04:26:20 AM 42 minutes ago by brandb909 2018-04-29 04:32:55 AM 35 minutes ago by aorme
01:10<Eugene>Median ticket response times have increased dramatically in my tenure as a customer. When I started it was often <5 minutes, and sometimes within 60 seconds
01:10<Peng_>Eugene: but now you can get $5 nodes
01:10<brandon>vultr was able to respond before i was even active
01:10<Eugene>I attribute this to their continued success and growth in customers (and thus, workload)
01:11<brandon>my card was billed over an hour ago
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01:11<zifnab>Eugene: oddly, the ham-related-discord-group i'm in was discussing exploits earlier and this came up.
01:11<zifnab>Eugene: i want a github repo of the exploit used.
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01:12<Eugene>I'm not allowed to talk about that code.
01:12<zifnab>i understand.
01:12<dwfreed>as I explained in a forum post a while ago, ticket rates have seen a six-fold increase since 2012/2013; Linode's staff, however, has not seen similar increases
01:13<brandon>the life of a network admin
01:13<Eugene>I believe the expiration date is 2023
01:13<zifnab>in which case it goes on github right?
01:13<Eugene>Again, I'm not allowed to talk about it
01:14<millisa>the page -
01:15<zifnab>i would frame that and put it above a door
01:16<dwfreed>zifnab: probably kaminsky attack
01:19<brandon>thanks dw
01:20<brandon>i understand what it is like but i think i will asking for my initial payment refudned
01:20<millisa>i was digging through the api docs on Thursday (trying to find what replaced the /v4/linode/distributions) and noticed the 'class' in /linode/types/$id. mildly interesting that the 3 classes are 'nanode' 'standard' and 'high memory class'
01:20<Eugene>I want a hamnode
01:20<millisa>grilled. with cheese.
01:20<dwfreed>millisa: distro templates have become images
01:21<millisa>thanks. I see it now. didn't thinking to look there.
01:21<millisa>!point dwfreed
01:21<linbot>millisa: Point given to dwfreed. (45) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 8)
01:21<brandon>anyone using lxd on linode?
01:21<dwfreed>millisa: I'm not even sure how I know that, but I do
01:21<dwfreed>might have been git commit summary in -next
01:22<@scrane>brandon: Did you see the response from aorme on your ticket?
01:22<millisa>it was in the 2017-12-11 changelog entry. i missed it and only saw the later one when they removed it
01:23<millisa>the other bit that I ran across that wasn't expected; there was a place to specify cpu counts (it had some note about it being 'if applicable' which probably isn't applicable anywhere yet)
01:23<brandon>yes i received the welcome email about 50 mins ago
01:23<brandon> 9:40 PM (42 minutes ago) to me Welcome to Linode! Your Linode account has been activated. Please log into the Linode Manager to get started:
01:24<brandon>and this is wha thappens when i go into account manager
01:24<brandon>Thank you for completing your signup! Your account is currently being reviewed. You'll receive an email from us after your account has been reviewed, so hang tight!
01:25<@scrane>Hmmmm that's odd. Can you refresh the page?
01:26<dwfreed>sometimes you need to log out and back in
01:26<dwfreed>best way to force a full reload of stuffs
01:26<dwfreed>(stuffs being the technical term)
01:30<@scrane>I think logging out then logging back in may fix the problem.
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01:37<brandon>tried that a few times
01:38<brandon>active now
01:40<brandon>i tried to respond to the suppot
01:40<brandon>Access violation I'm sorry, but you've triggered our Cross-Site Request Forgery (CSRF) prevention measure. Please don't use the back-button to resubmit an already-submitted form.
01:41<brandon>well i do appreciate that there is an active irc channel with linode reps
01:42<nmelehan>CSRFs can come up if our website thinks your session has been intercepted by an attacker
01:42<nmelehan>one common reason for this is if you change your local IP in the middle of a session
01:43<dwfreed>or you have a stale tab open
01:44<dwfreed>(and you tried using that stale tab)
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02:18<brandon>things appear to working smoothly now
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04:58<Yan>Hi all! quick question, could not find it.. How am I charged if exceed the 1 TB Transfer ?
05:01<@scrane>You will be billed $0.02/GB beyond the limit you exceed. You can see more about this here:
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05:15<Yan>Great! Thanks for the reply
05:29<Zimsky>!unpoint Eugene
05:29<linbot>Zimsky: Point taken from eugene! (55)
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07:38<Woet>!point scrane
07:38<linbot>Woet: Point given to scrane. (10)
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11:10<eddie>how much would it cost to host my site with u
11:10<eddie>with the following requirements
11:11<eddie>Server Requirements PHP Version >=5.6 Extensions GD Version - 2.x+ PCRE Version - 7.x+ cURL version - 7.x+ JSON version - 1.x+ mbstring OpenSSL PDO PHP Extension php.ini settings max_execution_time - 180 (not mandatory) max_input_time - 6000 (not mandatory) memory_limit - 128M (at least 32M) safe_mode - off open_basedir - No Value display_error = On magic_quotes_gpc = Off PostgreSQL Version - 9.4+ (preferably 9.3) Nodejs Composer Bower Grunt Nginx - 1+ (p
11:12<dwfreed>eddie: Linode is an unmanaged VPS provider; everything you've listed there (you were cut off after "grunt nginx") would be your responsibility to install and configure
11:12<eddie>oh ok
11:12<eddie>i understand
11:13<dwfreed>You could of course pay somebody to do that bit for you
11:15<eddie>how much would it cost'
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12:59<tafa2>how's the block storage guys? fast enough to host a site on?
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13:10<Woet>tafa2: sure, but local SSD will always be quciker
13:10<Woet>quicker *
13:10<tafa2>yeah no doubt
13:10<tafa2>just wondering
13:10<tafa2>I've got a server that's reaching disk capacity
13:10<tafa2>wondering if it's worth upgrading it or slapping some block storage on it
13:11<Woet>i mean, it depends on your site too. most of it will be cached in memory.
13:11<Woet>you could off-load the less important things
13:12<Woet>like images, videos, etc.
13:12<Woet>all of the source code and databases shouldn't be making a big impact in your data usage anyways
13:12<Woet>and thats the stuff you want to be fast
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17:04<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
17:04<Eugene>I would use Block Storage more if it had a Snapshot/Backup feature.
17:17<mattmcc>zfs? :)
17:18<waltman>So would you say that every day you're Block Storin'?
17:21<Eugene>zfs doesn't protect against the underlying storage going bye-bye. RAID is great and all, but "second copy on separate hardware" makes me sleep better
17:22<Eugene>Preferably without having to think about or set anything up - that's why I'm buying Linode
17:22<waltman>Is it why you're Linodin'?
17:24<Eugene>It really is. I used to rent physical servers, then Colo space from HE. I always had Linodes for little things, but nowadays I don't have the physical junk anymore
17:24<Eugene>There's one fileservr at home that I hate, but I can't figure out how to have 25TB(and growing) stored anywhere else, whilestill being able to access it.
17:24<waltman>That's a lot of storage!
17:24<Eugene>For less than a brazillian dollars
17:25<Eugene>'tis. I like to make fun of things at $DAYJOB that have less usable space than my home setup. IE, all of them.
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17:55<dwfreed>Eugene: zfs send
17:56<dwfreed>send it to another LBS volume in another datacenter!
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18:44<Eugene>dwfreed - congrats, thats a 100% premium instead of the Backups 25%. Fail.
18:45<Woet>Eugene: stop being poor
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18:55<frogzilla>hi there, i was wonder if linode has a kind of anti ddos and/or bot protection. in other words, if my website gets attacked do i risk to lose all of my bandwidth? - if not, should i get a cdn as a possible solution?
18:56<frogzilla>that answered both questions right..?
18:56<Woet>if you get attacked and it impacts other clients your linode will be nullrouted
18:56<Woet>only the first.
18:56<frogzilla>ah! right! thank you by the way
18:57<Woet>no worries
18:57<Woet>if its just a site, cloudflare is your best bet
18:57<Woet>especially with a plan
18:58<frogzilla>yes i tought so.. ive checked other cdn services but theyr a bit expensiv and some of them won't mitigate more than 10gbps with the 'basic plan' (the cheap one)
19:02<millisa>there's nothing stopping you from using something like cloudflare with linodes behind it
19:03<Woet>Eugene might stop you
19:05<frogzilla>lol .. no i was looking for something 'smaller'. cloudflare is to big for my taste, if they offer that kind of great service for free is probably because they do commercialize some kind of data
19:06<frogzilla>if you do not pay you are probably the product being sold
19:10<Woet>except they sell the product..?
19:10<millisa>$20/month for the low end pro level.
19:11<millisa>the free level is for personal stuff; they want you to try it so you buy the pay for products that have more features (like the waf)
19:11<Woet>they also gets lots of ddos intelligence they can use to protect their enterprise clients
19:21<frogzilla>ok you guys are right, i cant debate. but i also like to opt for the smaller services because the big companies are leading the web to centralization, but in some cases i admit its better to choose the big ones like linode
19:23<Woet>its okay, ill ask the sales team to send you a free tinfoil hat
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19:50<Eugene>Woet - Yes, because I'm poor I'm instead paying more for a bigger Linode (which has Backups for all of its disks) instead of a smaller one + Block Storage. Good thinking too
19:51<Woet>Eugene: tldr
19:51<Eugene>Have you tried turning yourself off and back on again
19:52<dzho>it would only be fair: They've been turning us off for quite some time already.
19:52<Woet>Eugene: you already turn me on baby
19:53<Eugene>That's $20
19:53<Woet>thats not what I meant when I told you to stop being poor
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23:50<millisa>i drink, with jam, and bread
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 30 00:00:51 2018