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#linode IRC Logs for 2018-05-21

---Logopened Mon May 21 00:00:20 2018
00:01<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • ephemerides astrologie <>
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01:01<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre seniors haute garonne <>
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02:11<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • carte astrologique du ciel <>
03:20<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
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03:52<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • site de rencontre fiable forum <>
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04:22<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Network usage graphic incorrect. <> || Current Betas • Linode Block Storage (Fremont beta) <>
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04:42<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre gaie <>
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05:03<loadkick>Hello Guys!
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05:07<@bhanks>hi loadkick what's up
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05:26<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read
05:29<loadkick>Hi, i was disconnected
05:29<loadkick>i need help understanding my bill.. is this the right channel?
05:31<nate>We can most likely help you yes, just remember this is a community support channel, so don't share any sensitive/account info
05:31<@bmartin>Anything account specific would need to go through the support ticket process. if it is a question of an invoice you could pop a screen shot in here and we may be able to help
05:32<@bhanks>loadkick what specifically are you interested in knowing about our billing process?
05:33<@bhanks>the most basic explanation is that we bill for the hours a server is active on your account (active meaning associated with your account, regardless of whether it is powered on or off). you are invoiced on the 1st of each month for the services used the previous month.
05:34<loadkick>Oh, yeah... this is what i needed plus some more info
05:35<loadkick>even if servers are powered off i will charged is it?
05:36<loadkick>if so that answers my question?
05:36<nate>loadkick: The main reason is because you're paying for hardware reservation, not so much 'running' time
05:36<nate>so that even if you turn it off, you will always have the allocated resources to turn it back on at any time
05:36<loadkick>also can you please share in the plan that i am currently subscribed to to my email ID
05:37<nate>loadkick: That you can tell from the linode manager, it'll tell you the specific plan your linode(s) are generally
05:41<loadkick>can you plz point me where i should head to get that info?
05:41<loadkick>in my linode manager dashboard
05:43<Peng_>The main page
05:43<nate>Indeed, look at the columns for any/all linodes you have, there's one that says "Plan", it'll say something like "Linode 2048" or similar
05:51<loadkick>Yeah i got it..i was actually looking at it but it doesnt say much
05:51<loadkick>any doc that i can refer to find more about my plan??
05:51<Zimsky>what do you need to know
06:02<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • signe astrologique chinois tigre signification <>
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06:10<loadkick>Hello All.. Thanks for the help
06:11<loadkick>now i have the info i need!!
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09:53<linbot>New news from kernels: Latest 32 bit (4.15.13-x86-linode125) <> || Latest 64 bit (4.15.13-x86_64-linode106) <> || 4.15.18-x86_64-linode107 <> || 4.15.18-x86-linode126 <>
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10:53<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • GDPR compliance with EU rules <>
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12:11<@mcintosh>zifnab: Eugene: section 8.6 has been updated
12:13<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre seropositif gratuit <>
12:21<Eugene>On to the next point of contention!
12:29<ericoc>does any one prefer firewalld over iptables; if so, why?
12:43<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre ce soir <>
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13:26<cacosphere>I've got a Linode vps running Debian 7.11 - thinking about upgrading to Debian 9. Is there an upgrade path, or should I just back up my data from the image and do a complete redeploy?
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13:28<Peng_>You should be able to use Debian's standard upgrade tools. Linode may have documentation with specifics.
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13:28<cacosphere>@Peng_ thx that would be nice. Let me look into that.
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13:44<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • ou rencontrer des femmes a montreal <>
14:04<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontrer une femme russe gratuitement <>
14:05<Eliz>yay forum spam!
14:06<@scrane>What spam? I see no spam! There was never any spam.
14:23<Eugene>ericoc - I like the idea of firewalld, but I find the tooling around it to be totally lacking, at least in the Red Hat / CentOS 7 release. I'm more annoyed at my attempt (and the shortcomings thereof) to re-active the old iptables 'service' in systemd
14:24<ericoc>"rich rules" just make me feel like "uh.. why am i not using iptables"
14:25<Eugene>Everything makes me feel like that, even iptables. I decided to get a few more levels of Meta, and have been making all my "new infrastructure" on AWS with Terraform managing the raw EC2 firewall rules
14:25<Eugene>IE, skipping right over iptables
14:26<Eugene>I would really like to see a Linode Firewall and true Private Networking, but I know that would be a LOT of infrastructure retooling
14:27<Eugene>Block Storage - even a crappy OpenStack cluster - would also help a lot
14:28<Peng_>...Linode has block storage
14:28<ericoc>linode also has private networking :p ipv6 and v4! private to the dc anyways
14:29<Eugene>No, Linode has "transfer free networking". It is not Private ;-)
14:29<ericoc>what makes it "private" at ec2/aws
14:29<Eugene>Its actually a private network that you own, not an IP in a shared block?
14:30<Eugene>With every other customer
14:30<Eugene>EC2 VPC you get to decide the Subnet, IP addresses, Routes, everything
14:30<Peng_>have to* :P
14:30<@mcintosh>we hear you loud and clear RE: true Private Networking and a Firewall solution
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14:32<Eugene>Its not that Linode's network is 'bad', but actually, yes it is. I have an active open ticket about this.
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14:39<deish>hi, i just joined and i'm pretty sure i filled in all the details, and preloaded credit, but it's asking for it again
14:39<deish>can anyone check whats going on?
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14:42<@mcintosh>Eugene: you have an active open ticket about general network issues or network issues impacting a specific node?
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15:04<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Feature request: Let's Encrypt DNS Plugin for Linode <>
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15:09<arby>I see changes have been made to the 'new' CustomerAgreement/PrivacyPolicy/etc, but that the revision dates (e.g. "Customer Agreement (updated 2018-05-14)") have NOT been changed.
15:10<arby>Where are the changes/revisions (for diff'ing) since that original date?
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15:24<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Upgrade? <>
15:34<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • GDPR compliance with EU rules <>
15:47<@mcintosh>arby: not sure about the revision date discrepancy - but here's a diff
15:49<arby>mcintosh: Useful, thx. 'bad idea' to change text of *contracts* customers (may) have agreed to. changing them, and requiring a RE-accept, is a different story.
15:51<@mcintosh>arby: happy to forward your feedback along
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15:54<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontres amicales gratuites <>
15:59<Eugene>mcintosh - specific node. #10485998. Its been ongoing for a few days now
16:00<Woet>Eugene: is that why you haven't been Linodin' recently?
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16:00<Eugene>You are mistaken, ser. Though if these problems continue I will someday soon no longer be Linodin'
16:02<rsdehart>I was hoping it was simply a matter of you realizing you didn't have to tell us every time you linode
16:02<rsdehart>rather than something bad happening
16:03<Eugene>rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.531/42.164/259.723/61.760 ms
16:03<Eugene>Which is pretty abominable, for a local IPv4 ping
16:04<Peng_>Maybe the NSA interception box is overloaded :D
16:04<Woet>Eugene: wheres the traceroute at
16:04<Eugene>This is between two Linodes in Fremont
16:04<Woet>but that's not a local IP
16:04<Woet>so it'll probably be routed
16:05<Eugene>All of this information is in the ticket, I assure you
16:05<arby><mcintosh> I truly appreciate your concerns but directly messaging me, without permission, is not an appropriate way to voice them. Ok, next time I'll not do you the courtesy ... and air laundry/criticism in public.
16:05<Eugene>I covered on Friday that this looks like an A/B router pair problem. The only thing in traceroute is the default gw for each Linode. They're in the same /20, but not hte same /24
16:05<Woet>arby: that's okay, we all love drama here
16:05<Eugene>I literally cannot trace this any farther than that
16:06<Woet>Eugene: I trust you
16:06<arby>Woet: +1
16:07<arby>ya try to be nice. ish. sigh ...
16:07<Eugene>The problem doesn not show up on Test Linodes (which are outside of the /20 block shared by these two), which is very strange indeed
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16:14<Eugene>wtf you removed 8.6 but didn't bump the date? Did you even run it by a lawyer for a sniff test?
16:15<Eugene>Words cannot describe the enormity of the screwup of changing a customer agreement silently
16:15<Eugene>Especially when trying to get me to agree to it
16:15<arby>Eugene: ffs, do NOT priv msg those comments! ;-)
16:16<Eugene>Private messaging is rude to begin with. Set the user flag to prevent it at all
16:16<arby>lol. less rude than a public dressing down, but different strokes.
16:16<@dmonschein>blaboon: hi!
16:17<Eliz>arby: trust me, nothing bad will come of talking about this in public :P
16:17<blaboon>dmonschein: o/
16:18<arby>Eliz: heh, there's that. assuming that the hole stops getting dug deeper ...
16:18<Eugene>Nothing at all rude about discussing far-reaching changes to a customer agreement by a public company, in the public space provided by that company for community interaction. If my words are negative it is only because the experience matches.
16:18<Eliz>arby: mistakes happen, but mcintosh is an engineer, not a lawyer,
16:18<Eliz>different teams, and it's healthy to discuss in public
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16:19<Eugene>I assume that people are adults, and the PR people ("those out on the public IRC community") are capable of forwarding messages to the correct people on the backend.
16:19<dzho>"public company" means a thing that doesn't apply to linode iirc
16:19<Eugene>Not SEC Public Company, but "a company operating in the public sphere"
16:19<Eugene>If you want to get pedantic
16:20<dzho>if we're about holding folks to account and all.
16:20<Woet>you see, no one sane actually cares about the terms of service
16:20<Woet>so maybe you should get that resolved instead
16:20<Eugene>I don't really care about the terms. I care about being lied to in the change log
16:20*Eliz gives Eugene a bear.
16:20<arby>Woet: ever been sued over ToS?
16:20*Eliz waits for the mauling
16:21<Woet>arby: no, because I don't do anything sue worthy
16:21<Woet>also I live in a first world country where suing isn't a favorite past time
16:21<Eliz>arby: a court would probably not give enough shits about them fixing a typo, and the other stuff doesn't look to affect the existing agreement
16:21<Eugene>Eliz - I have one of those now.
16:21<dzho>Woet: recent reports indicate you live all over the place
16:21<Woet>Eugene: a tree branch?
16:21<Eliz>Eugene: *
16:22<Woet>dzho: I'm on the run
16:22<arby>Eliz: heh, really? funny. clearly never been in a courtroom arguing about commas b4 !
16:22<Eugene>Eliz - until this morning, the new agreement included this: 8.6 Publicity Covenant. For a period commencing on the Effective Date and continuing through the expiration of the three (3) year period following the termination of this Agreement, you represent and warrant that you shall not issue any press release or make any other public communication with respect to this Agreement or your use of the Linode Services without our prior written consent,
16:22<Eugene>which consent may be withheld for any reason or for no reason
16:22<Eliz>I meant to say beer, but went with it.
16:22<Eugene>Which basically amounted to a gag order
16:22<Eliz>Eugene: I take it back, I missed that part of the diff.
16:22<Eliz>my bad.
16:22<Eugene>That part was removed today, but the date of the change was not published. That's bad, contractually speaking.
16:23*Woet is listening to Heiakim - Hotto Dogu from the album Hotto Dogu on Spotify.
16:23<Eugene>I have "concerns" about the ToS changing in this manner
16:23<Eugene>Concerns like "hey so what else have y'all changed this week without telling us"
16:23<Eugene>And "when will you next change the terms without diff-ing"
16:23<Eliz>concerns were aired, mistakes were noted, and I'm sure it'll be heard.
16:23<Woet>they're probably like "wtf our ToS got > 0 pageviews today"
16:24<Woet>and too confused to communicate it to you
16:24<Eugene>These are brand-new concerns for this morning which have yet to be noted or responded to. I'm a patient man (and not deleting things yet), but I did move it up my Todo list.
16:24<Eugene>And still haven't clicked I Agree
16:24<Woet>so don't
16:24<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontrer des femmes canadiennes <>
16:24<Woet>see what happens
16:24<Woet>why can't you be upset by the spam the forums keep going through instead
16:25<Eugene>I'm amazed the forums still exist TBH
16:25<Eugene>This isn't 1998 anymore, delete that crap
16:25<Woet>i have many TOP TIPS for you
16:25<dzho>Eugene: were you transcribing and made a tyop?
16:26<dzho>oh, hmm. nevermind
16:26<Eugene>!point dzho
16:26<linbot>Eugene: Point given to dzho. (6)
16:27<Woet>wheres mine
16:27<@gjjansen>!point Woet
16:27<Eugene>Dog ate it
16:27<linbot>gjjansen: Point given to woet. (18) (Biggest fan: jalter, total: 7)
16:27*dzho wonders if there's a hidden char in that?
16:27<Woet>!lick gjjansen
16:27<linbot>Woet: Point given to gjjansen. (4)
16:27<Woet>only 4?
16:27<dzho>I copied the text above
16:27<Woet>i think you should be fired
16:27<@gjjansen>I'm the hero that we need, not the one that we want.
16:28<dzho>when I paste it I see "... your use of the Linoder Services without ...?
16:28<dzho>so, where is the "r" in "Linoder" coming from
16:29<Eugene>I copy-pasted that text block from my Ticket, which came directly from the Agreement textbox in the Manager application. So beats me.
16:29*Woet beats Eugene
16:30<dzho>ok, I'm chalking it up to clientside weirdness
16:30<dzho>(lol, ikr)
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16:46<Woet>Eugene: are you gonna eat the males
16:51<Eugene>Oooh, and I may have found an ARP vuln
16:51<Eugene>I can arping between subnets
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16:53<grawity>normal as long as they're on the same link, isn't it
16:53<Eugene>Probably OK? I can't find a way to exploit it using an IP I don't own
16:54<Eugene>And yeah, this fits with the "everybody is on the same Layer 2 network" network design I'm familiar with. Just very surprising to see ARP being allowed cross-subnet
16:54<linbot>New news from forum: Sales Questions and Answers • VPS Enquiry <>
16:55<Eugene>I bet I could add a static ARP map (and bypass the default gateway), but that'd be silly and fragile.
16:55<grawity>or even static on-link routes
16:56<grawity>x.y.z.0/24 dev eth0
16:56<Eugene>that would only make sense if I had Linodes on that entire /24, but yes, could do.
16:56<grawity>I don't think anyone even pretends there is any more isolation than usual, just that ipv4 address space happens to be fragmented
16:57<grawity>but I mean, if they all share a v6 /64...
16:57<Eugene>Yah, exactly. Its one giant L2 network
17:04<linbot>New news from forum: Sales Questions and Answers • VPS Enquiry <>
17:06<Peng_>The real L2 network is the friends we made along the way
17:06<Eugene><3 rsyracuse
17:10<@mcintosh>!point rsyracuse
17:10<linbot>mcintosh: Point given to rsyracuse. (2)
17:11<Eugene>!point rsyracuse
17:11<linbot>Eugene: Point given to rsyracuse. (3)
17:11<Woet>wheres mine
17:12<Eugene>Beggars can't be choosers
17:12<Woet>rsyracuse didn't even say or do anything
17:12<Eugene>I have a ticket reply
17:12<linbot>Yo mommas so dumb, she tried to exorcize the daemons from her Linode! (9:0/0) [romum]
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17:15<David>Is this the correct place to ask questions about hosting with linode?
17:15<David>Thanks. I want to host a few domains running static HTML or possibly using old fashioned SSI. Would Linode be a good fit?
17:16<Woet>The #linode channel on OFTC is where the Linode community comes together to chat about system administration, development, and all things Linode. Stop on by for real-time advice on Linode products and troubleshooting tips. We love our community, and we're sure you will too.
17:16<Woet>David: Linode sells Linux VPSes
17:16<Woet>David: Linux is capable of running a webserver, yes.
17:16<David>So I would just set up Apache and do my thing?
17:16<Woet>David: sure.
17:17<@scrane>We have a guide on how to do that here
17:17<David>Can i host multiple domains on the $5/month plan?
17:17<Woet>David: Linux is capable of running a webserver with vhosts, yes.
17:18<David>Okay. Thank you!
17:18<@scrane>To clarify, Linode is an unmanaged hosting provider. We don't monitor what you do with the internal configurations on your Linode.
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17:18<David>I see. So you provide the space and I do what I want with it.
17:18<@scrane>Exactly, so long as what you are doing adheres to our ToS.
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17:18<Woet>David: what do you mean by "space"
17:19<David>A place to put my website files.
17:19<Woet>David: no.
17:19<Woet>David: as mentioned, Linode sells Linux VPSes.
17:19<David>I'm used to hand coding HTML/CSS/JS and just want to make some simple sites.
17:19<Woet>David: if you want to host websites, you need to SSH in, install a webserver, configure it and then theres space for your website files.
17:19<David>VPS = Virtual Private Servers?
17:20<Woet>David: yes, SSH. anyone buying an unmanaged Linux VPS should be familiar with that.
17:21<David>Okay, so perhaps Linode isn't for me. Thank you.
17:21<Woet>David: you can learn
17:21<Woet>theres many guides, as scrane provided.
17:21<David>Hmm... alright. Trying to choose the right path here.
17:22<Woet>David: if you just want a space for some small websites, go with shared webhosting
17:23<David>Okay. Thank you. Have a good day!
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18:02<@gjjansen>!point ctarquini
18:02<linbot>gjjansen: Point given to ctarquini. (1)
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18:14<Eugene>TIL of a new Linode host:
18:14<Eugene>Now to see if this is a better candidate for random monitoring than the speedtest servers....
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18:28<@mcintosh>Eugene: generally it will be under less contention but otherwise shouldn't be any different w/r/t monitoring/testing
18:35<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre femme handicapee et celibataire gratuit <>
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18:45<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • Webmin install <>
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18:55<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Network usage graphic incorrect. <>
19:05<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • signe astrologique homme vierge femme lion <>
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19:15<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Network usage graphic incorrect. <>
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19:38<dnshelp>I created a PTR record over 30 minutes ago and I'm still not seeing it active in any of Linode's DNS severs. Is this normal?
19:39<dnshelp>(I realize that there's a crazy long 24 hour TTL setting on Linode records, but I'm talking about just getting Linode's DNS servers to load the change in the first place.)
19:41<ericoc>what's the ptr
19:41<dnshelp>A PTR record is a Reverse DNS record.
19:42<nate>He said the, not what's a
19:42<dnshelp>oops, sorry
19:42<nate>Also worth noting if you attempted to resolve the IP previously it may have cached the last rDNS record, so clear your DNS cache if so
19:42<dnshelp>I'm doing a dig directly against Linode's DNS so avoid caching issues.
19:42<millisa>so . . what's the IP
19:43<dnshelp>And, wouldn't you know it... I go to get the dig line I'm running and now the PTR record is there.
19:44<dnshelp>So, I guess it's closer to 45 minutes for Reverse DNS records to get picked up.
19:44<dnshelp>Was testing like this: dig -x {IP address}
19:45<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontrer un militaire canadien <>
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19:55<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • rencontre gard ales <>
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20:05<linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Network usage graphic incorrect. <>
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21:26<Eliz>uh, pretty sure it gets cached at cloudflare's layer too there,
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21:55<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • signe astrologique pour le 29 aout <>
22:16<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • plan cul vieille femme <>
22:17<Eugene>I wonder how many hours of Lnode support/engineering time has been spent figuring out whymy IRC host's ping time is being weird.
22:26<Zimsky>inb4 "what ping time?"
23:09<@bhanks>the answer is "thousands" ^
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23:26<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • signe du zodiaque chinois scorpion <>
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---Logclosed Tue May 22 00:00:21 2018