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#linode IRC Logs for 2018-09-25

---Logopened Tue Sep 25 00:00:04 2018
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00:15<drussell[m]>dwfreed: GFW is strong.
00:16<drussell[m]>Just realised he's probably not from China, but almost everyone I hear complain about that is complaining about the GFW :p
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00:30<Woet>yea i complain about games for windows too
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00:49<dwfreed>drussell[m]: they're in mexico
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00:57<Woet>THE WALL JUST GOT 10 FEET HIGHER
00:57<wraeth>That's quite a feet for a virtual wall. :)
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01:01-!-dwfreed is "dwfreed" on #linode-beta #linode #debian-tech #debian-reproducible #debian-policy #debian-perl #debian-ops #debian-next #debian-kbsd #ceph #bcache #g7
01:07<drussell[m]>pls no virtual walls
01:07<drussell[m]>we'll all end up paying for them
01:08<drussell[m]>Bad enough the FCC has taken our neutrality.
01:08<Unit193>A firewall is a type of virtual wall, those are very good.
01:09<millisa>not enough dimensions. i prefer the firedome
01:13<drussell[m]>I prefer a firetesseract
01:17<wraeth>I was more interested in the feet/feat wordplay.
01:17*wraeth shrugs
01:19<drussell[m]>Look, we all know what a feat your feet are, but please no foot play.
01:21<wraeth>So you're saying that, now that I'm on a (admittedly short) run, I have to put the foot down and cease my feet fun feat? :)
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01:30<dwfreed>wraeth: just get out
01:31<millisa>You give 'em an inch, they take a third of a yard?
01:31<dwfreed>1/5280th of a mile
01:43<Woet>give me an inch daddy
01:43<dwfreed>:sfwplease:
01:45<Woet>an inch of college education
02:06<wraeth>dwfreed: One foot at a time, right? :D
02:06*wraeth ducks
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05:09<grawity>sigh, remember that linode I had with unusually slow sda?
05:09<grawity>back then that wasn't really the cause of my problems (crng was)
05:09<grawity>but this is probably not good https://ptpb.pw/Oz8i
05:14<grawity>on the second thought, that can't really be related
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07:09<jojon>hiho
07:10<jojon>helllleeeep
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07:49<san>hi
07:49<san>need an urgent reply on the below ticket number
07:50<san>10969386
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08:56<acald3ron>is back my vps !
08:57<LouWestin>WB
09:12<linbot>New news from community: Network Helper did not run: unsupported distribution or distribution version <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/17201>
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10:22<linbot>New news from community: Lish web console, cannot type password <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/17202>
10:28<Woet>...
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10:30<Turbo>Hi
10:31<Woet>Hi
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10:32<Turbo>Any one help me to apply cloudflar3 sll
10:32<Woet>!ask
10:32<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read http://alexfornuto.com/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
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10:34<nate>Woet: Is that post what I think it is
10:34<nate>lol
10:35<Woet>yup
10:35<Woet>glad LouWestin chimed in too
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10:38<LouWestin>For the Linux password not showing question?
10:39<Woet>yea
10:39<Woet>you really made an useful contribution
10:39<Woet>I too post things like "<poster above> is right."
10:40<LouWestin>Thanks. I gave credit to you too. ;-)
10:41-!-Turbo [~oftc-webi@157.48.29.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42<LouWestin>It brought that wonderful feeling of way back when I was a total Linux noob. Lol Now I’m just not quite as noobish as I once was.
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10:48<LouWestin>I was laughing this morning when the one poster said he needed a response on his/her ticket STAT!
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11:49<Brg>I think the Quota Transfer platform is addicted. Strangely enough, tonight I crossed the line and was notified. The funniest thing is that I have not had any more products on linode for at least 20 days, and when I deleted them, they had their rates all well below 50%
11:51<Peng>If you delete a Linode 5 days into the month, you only get 5 days worth of transfer quota. It's prorated.
11:51<Peng>Be careful you're not actually going over.
11:55<Brg>But because, if I exclude linone, and had rates below 50%, close to 30%, I would be notified now, 20 days later, that my products have passed 100%. The linodes were erased and not just disabled.
11:55<Peng>50% of what
11:57<smallclone>the transfer quota is pooled amongst all your linodes and is prorated - that means if you deleted say, all but one of your linodes, the total quota for the month goes down significantly
11:58<Peng>If you deleted all of them, it goes down even more significantly.
11:59<relidy>And the amount contributed to the pool varies by the size of the Linode as well, so if you deleted all your large machines and kept the small ones, that's going to have a disproportionate affect on the total quota.
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12:01<brg>all linodes have been deleted, my account is no product for 20 days
12:02<Woet>so what is your question again?
12:02<relidy>If you think it's incorrect, the only thing we can really do here is suggest that you open a support ticket.
12:02<Woet>not sure what "addicted" means.
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12:06<Peng>brg: You should be careful to avoid going over your transfer quota. It costs less to add some Linodes than to get an overage fee.
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12:06<brg>That's why I'm worried. For how I am consuming if I have no active product.
12:07<Peng>You're not, but what you consumed while you had active services this month counts.
12:08<brg>as I explained. The rates were right, less than 50%. Before deleting I disabled it for a few days. And now that I'm being alerted.
12:10<Peng>50% of what
12:10<brg>Outbound Transfer Quota
12:11<Peng>50% of the projection based on the assumption your services stayed the same throughout the month, or 50% of what your actual services are?
12:13<brg>According to graph displayed by linode.
12:14<Peng>So it's the former one?
12:17<brg>In this case, I am talking about the graph that is available during the use of the service.
12:17<Peng>When
12:17<brg>when you delete the service
12:18<Peng>What?
12:19-!-acald3ron [~acald3ron@189.202.78.99.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:20<brg>when I delete the service
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12:22<Peng>What.
12:22<Peng>That person is going to get a huge overage bill.
12:25<Peng>They used 50% of their transfer and paid 10% of the bill
12:27<relidy>I keep trying to come up with ways the Manager could warn a user about this situation, but none of the solutions I've considered are ... complete enough to apply across the board.
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13:23<linbot>New news from community: Linode and Docker and IPv6 connectivity <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/17203>
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13:39<drussell[m]>Peng: Assuming he had the lowest Linode, he'd only get charged $10 for the overage -shrugs-
13:41<Peng>Ah? That's good
13:44<drussell[m]>$0.02 per GB now. Think it used to be $0.10
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13:45<Peng>Yeah
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13:47<LouWestin>That’s cheaper than what our isp charged for going over the limit.
13:48<drussell[m]>How much data did you use to manage that
13:48<Peng>Verizon? AWS? :D
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13:49<LouWestin>AT&T has or had a REALLY low threshold.
13:49<drussell[m]>AWS is a rip-off
13:49<LouWestin>Been with Comcast for the last several years now.
13:50<drussell[m]>They have some cool services, but overall their prices are insane.
13:51<LouWestin>I can’t find AWS’s pricing. I’ve read through pages of marketing BS and never saw a straight answer.
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13:54<Peng>It's very simple
13:54<Peng>There's a 10,000 page spreadsheet.
13:54<grawity>I googled "aws pricing", clicked the 1st link, clicked "On-demand", got a huge table at https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/on-demand/
13:54<grawity>I guess there's a reason Google autosuggests "aws pricing calculator" >_>
13:55<drussell[m]>LouWestin: They have a calculator for calculating all your possible expenditures + you need to add extra $ for each GB of their volumes you use.
13:56<LouWestin>Ugh... lol
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13:56<LouWestin>I think we have two different definitions of simple. lol Linode is simple.
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13:58<drussell[m]>But for a 1 core, 1GB, 50GB SSD EBS volume and really shitty I/O on a 1Gbps connection you're paying $10 per month.
13:58<drussell[m]>Also depends on the data centre. They add more $ for certain DCs
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13:58<LouWestin>Ah... ok. Ehhh I’ll stay here.
13:58<Peng>You can also use Lightsail if you have IPv6
13:59<Peng>hate*
13:59<drussell[m]>The only nice thing about AWS or Google Cloud is that they have more DCs to choose from
13:59<drussell[m]>But other than that
13:59<drussell[m]>It's just ludicrous how much they charge.
14:00<LouWestin>I suppose if I have to ask how much it costs, it probably means I can’t afford it. Lol
14:01<LouWestin>Of course if anyone has to ask how much Linode charges, it means they didn’t read the simple pricing guide.
14:01<drussell[m]>My favourite part is how AWS sells "7.5GB RAM"
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14:15<LouWestin>Way back before I joined here. My old host had managed vps for $40 a month, 1-2GB for ram.
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14:16<LouWestin>The catch was, the ram wasn’t 1-2GB dedicated. It was like 500 or something.
14:16<Peng>Linode too, if you go far enough back
14:16<Peng>Oh, Linode never did shared RAM
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14:18<LouWestin>InMotion hosting. It’s now 4GB, 1.5 dedicated.
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14:22<LouWestin>I was on shared hosting for a while till I outgrew that for wanting more flexibility.
14:23<linbot>New news from community: PHP / Mysql Path Login <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/17204>
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14:32<love55523>hi
14:32<love55523>why i cannot use my acc?
14:32<love55523>am new
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15:05<vineesh>i am vineesh from kerla india
15:06<vineesh>looking cloud vps
15:07<vineesh>Linode 8GB interested this plan
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15:07<vineesh>do you help me for install cpanel
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15:07<vineesh>i have no experience
15:07<LouWestin>!cpanel
15:07<linbot>Install cPanel on CentOS: https://www.linode.com/docs/websites/cms/cpanel-on-centos Linode does not sell cPanel licenses, but it's provided free to Linode Managed customers: https://www.linode.com/managed Or try a free panel like Webmin: https://www.linode.com/docs/websites/cms/webmin-control-panel Or just use the command line: https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/linode-beginners-guide/
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15:11<vineesh>ithink you are not provide cpanel installation support to newbies
15:11<vineesh>i have no idea
15:11<vineesh>i well interested
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15:14<drussell[m]>cPanel install is one command.
15:14<drussell[m]>https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/74Docs/Installation+Guide
15:18<LouWestin>The service is not managed, so you have to do everything yourself.
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15:54<frailtyy>Howdy Linodia.
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15:55<bbigger>hi!
15:55<frailtyy>( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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18:40<frailtyy>This channel is really sleepy these days.
18:42<rsdehart>thanks for noticing
18:43<LouWestin>Around lunch time we were more active
18:43<frailtyy>rsdehart: I've got an attention to detail.
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18:48*nate is just busy trying to figure out why lighttpd won't bind on an IPv6:80 on his rebuilt linode
18:49<nate>some googling implies it's some systemd oddities in CentOS7 but I'll be damned if I can see where
18:49<nate>Though most of those reports also say it's related to a race condition during bootup, where as this is me trying to start the service manually :|
18:53*LouWestin is driving home
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19:02<frailtyy>nate: Not a super huge expert on lighttpd but are you getting any error messages when starting the service or is it just not binding to the address that you defined?
19:03<@scrane>Dumb question, but you say you rebooted: Is Network Helper on? If so, it may have blown the pool configuration away when the Linode booted back up
19:03<frailtyy>Ah, my favorite friend, scrane
19:04<@scrane>Hello there!!
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20:34<linbot>New news from community: dovecot can't handle/receive incoming emails <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/17205>
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22:07<millisa>nate: i've had issues with nginx/mysql/bacula starting on centos7 due to the systemd startup files not waiting for the network
22:09<millisa>mostly if you edit the /usr/lib/systemd/system/whatever.service file and add a 'Wants=network-online.target' it has seemed to fix it
22:10<rsdehart>instructions unclear, installed baculum instead
22:10<millisa>score!
22:10<rsdehart>"no, really"
22:11<millisa>Also ran into php-fpm missing its symlink in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants
22:13<nate>MillerBoss: Yeah but this is a case of lighty not working on manual starts, though that's the first thing I thought of as well
22:14<millisa>oh, completely unrelated then. missed that it was happening on manual
22:14<nate>I think there might be something else causing a permissions issue but I even got selinux fully disabled
22:16<millisa>i have a couple relatively clean centos7/linode boxes that aren't doing anything important; did you follow any specific guide for lighttpd?
22:16<millisa>or just a yum install lighttpd from epel?
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22:24<nate>It's my own build (I usually do my own builds of my 'criticals', openssl, php, mariadb and lighttpd), but they're otherwise 'standard' builds, however this is the first time I've deployed them on CentOS in ages (probably was 6.x something last time I did)
22:25<nate>It's also a new config model so I poked in #lighttpd as well to see lol, I might be doing something in the config lighttpd isn't a huge fan of, but so far I don't -think- that's the case
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22:26<frailtyy>nate: Yeah, I'd recommend making sure that NetworkHelper isn't running still 'cause that can cause some headaches.
22:26<nate>Manager you mean? Lemme check that
22:29<nate>Nup, networkmanager off, still does it, good call though :P
22:29*nate tries to see if lighttpd is trying to dual-bind on it for some reason
22:31<millisa>if it makes you feel any better, the lighttpd from epel also acts weird for me. if server.use-ipv6 = "enable" is in the config, I dont seem to get a response on ipv4. if I set it to disable, ipv4 works. and that might just be my naievy with lighttpd
22:31<millisa>naivete? my dumbnessosity.
22:33<nate>millisa: Yeah that's actually intended I believe, by default if you enable use-ipv6 I believe it's supposed to automatically listen on all ipv6 or something, and you're supposed to use $SERVER["socket"] blocks to actually individually listen
22:33<nate>which is basically what I was trying to do, 4 socket listen blocks to supplement a single config include between them all
22:35<nate>Ohhhhhhhhhhhh
22:35<nate>Found the issue...
22:36<nate>It set my inet6 bind as my link LOCAL IPv6 address, not the public, wut
22:37<millisa>today I learned. added the server socket bit got it to listen on both for me when I used the epel version
22:39<nate>Yeah, so apparently the "auto-configure networking" decided to use my local network IPv6 instead of the public IPv6 when setting it up
22:39<nate>how does that even...
22:45<nate>https://www.linode.com/community/questions/10970/solved-centos-7-and-ipv6 <-- apparently this is an old issue that linode had fixed at one point but perhaps forgot to re-fix in the recent CentOS releases :P
22:47<dwfreed>nate: you mean the network-scripts file is manually configuring your link local address?
22:49<nate>dwfreed: It looks like linode does a basic initialization of stuff but the way NetworkManager does DHCP on CentOS7 causes it to pull the private instead of the public hwaddr value, thus it ends up assigning my local private IPv6 instead of the public
22:49<nate>someone said at the bottom of the post that linode had fixed the CentOS images at a point a year and a half ago, but guessing the fix was forgotten about or something
22:52<dwfreed>the kernel assigns the link local address
22:53<dwfreed>network manager has nothing to do with it
22:53<nate>dwfreed: you're misunderstanding, it's assigning the local address as the public
22:53<dwfreed>wat
22:53<dwfreed>you're going to have to give command output, because you're making 0 sense
22:54<nate>Yes, as in the IPv6 showing up under my 'Private link-local" is being assigned as the only/public IPv6 address on the adapter as inet6, the 'public' one from the dashboard isn't being assigned at all
22:54<dwfreed>that just means that SLAAC isn't doing its job
22:55<nate>Indeed, I was just trying to figure out why, that topic above implied it was an issue w/ NetworkManager in CentOS7 changing the way it tries to get addresses
22:56<dwfreed>I'm going to assume you're not dumb enough to block ICMPv6, so pastebin 'sysctl -a | grep net.ipv6'
22:56<nate>I'm not, and it's literally a fresh (well, one-day-old) install that's not even been restarted yet
22:57<dwfreed>is NetworkManger running? Is Network Helper enabled in the configuration profile?
22:58<dwfreed>s/Manger/Manager/
22:59<wraeth>In some cases, the former is more accurate. :)
22:59<dwfreed>needs an 'l
22:59<dwfreed>NetworkMangler
23:00<nate>dwfreed: Indeed it was, but I'm thinking about about to gimp it and turn it off, I feel like I'm starting to recall a lot of issues with it
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23:02<dwfreed>what?
23:02<dwfreed>I asked two questions
23:02<dwfreed>you didn't clarify which one you were answering
23:02<wraeth>dwfreed: GIMP is an image editor - you can use that to edit the CentOS image, right? :D
23:03<dwfreed>haha
23:05<nate>Ah you innocent souls, gimp stood for something else well before an image editor for me :P
23:05<dwfreed>btw, CentOS7 still ships the network-scripts init script, so you can go back to that instead of using NetworkMangler (I had to do that on 3 RHEL 7 servers I deployed once; doing bonding and VLANs was so much easier with network-scripts than NetworkMangler)
23:06<Woet>or just use Ubuntu master race
23:06<millisa>netplan for life?
23:06<Woet>(didnt any of the scrollback but I hate centos)
23:06<Woet>didnt read *
23:06<nate>dwfreed: And my original indeed was to both of your questions (that it was running and enabled as is apparently by default)
23:06<drussell[m]>CentOS is like Gentoo. If you don't like it, it's user error :p
23:07<Woet>i like my package manager to have actual packages
23:07<Woet>and i like not having to reinstall servers just to upgrade
23:07<wraeth>drussell[m]: If it isn't broken, rice harder.
23:07<dwfreed>nate: I asked about 2 different things
23:07<nate>Woet: I normally do too, I like Fedora more but my problem is I generally don't update my linodes for like years, I still have a F19 one running lol. I figured CentOS would at least give me a smidge of extra support-life though for my usual business :P
23:07<drussell[m]>Woet: Except apt dist upgrade usually breaks things anyways
23:07<dwfreed>nate: Network *Helper* is something Linode runs before booting the Linode that does static network configuration
23:07<Woet>i hear lots of people say that
23:07<Abi12>never breaks for me :(
23:07<Woet>and yet mine hasn't broken on hundreds of servers in the past 10 years
23:08<Abi12>^
23:08<Abi12>too many python dependencies.
23:08<drussell[m]>The apocalypse of Apache 2.2 to 2.4 at Linode -- where we got a support email about it daily -- was plenty for me to never encourage using apt distupgrade
23:08<Abi12>too soon..?
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23:09<Woet>drussell[m]: an unmanaged host getting support emails about software issues? thats weird
23:09<Woet>i hope you closed them all without a response
23:09<nate>dwfreed: Ahhh sorry, I read that as NetworkManager, I thought you meant like networkmanager enabled on boot for the install lol. Yeah NetworkHelper was enabled as well in the account for this specific linode
23:09<drussell[m]>Woet: We get a lot of support emails about managed-y things
23:09<drussell[m]>s/get/got
23:10<dwfreed>I mean, you still do
23:10<drussell[m]>Dunno what protocol is now, but our protocol back then was 1) never tell them to dist upgrade and 2) tell them we aren't managed and can't help but maybe try downgrading to Apache 2.2
23:10<drussell[m]>And then we'd get "how2downgrade"
23:10<Woet>meanwhile AWS wont let you open tickets until you pay $29 per month
23:11<Woet>or 3% of monthly charges, whichever is greater
23:11<drussell[m]>You pay $29 per month for a 1GB at AWS so
23:11<Woet>the $29 is additional
23:12<Woet>i mean, Linode makes plenty of money, so clearly it's not terrible
23:12<Woet>but i don't like injustice
23:13<dwfreed>drussell[m]: the difference between Gentoo and CentOS re your earlier comment is that with Gentoo, you get to pick it; if you don't like it, that's your fault and you should change it. With CentOS, if you don't like it, you're pretty much stuck with it
23:13<dwfreed>drussell[m]: (also wraeth is a Gentoo developer)
23:13<wraeth>Hello! :)
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23:15<drussell[m]>dwfreed: Stuck in what sense? You could always move away from CentOS in the same way you moved from Gentoo
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23:16<dwfreed>drussell[m]: right, switching from CentOS is your only option
23:16<dwfreed>drussell[m]: Gentoo gives you many choices
23:16<drussell[m]>Ah, fair enough.
23:16<dwfreed>Want systemd? you can have it. Don't want systemd? don't have to
23:16<wraeth>Too many choices, for some.
23:16<dwfreed>heh
23:17<drussell[m]>Build everything on Gentoo, problem solved?
23:17<drussell[m]>:p
23:17<Woet>i honestly have no idea what systemd is or does
23:17<Woet>but my server works so im happy
23:17<Woet>whatever it uses
23:17<Unit193>It's an init system.
23:17<millisa>systemd is a new method of creating billable hours.
23:17<Woet>$ ps faux | grep -i systemd | wc -l
23:17<Woet>9
23:17<Woet>guess i use systemd
23:18<wraeth>Woet: cat /proc/1/comm
23:18<wraeth>Woet: Or `systemctl status`
23:18<Unit193>`systemctl is-system-running` is fun.
23:18<Woet>thats an alias for rm -rf / isnt it
23:18<Woet>but yes, systemd
23:18<Woet>still not sure how it affects me
23:18<Woet>apt does all my work
23:19<drussell[m]>systemd is a betterer version of sysvinit
23:19<drussell[m]>in simple terms
23:19<wraeth>Depending on whom you ask.
23:19<Woet>that sounds like something some people violently disagree with
23:19<drussell[m]>Well yeah there's that too
23:20<dwfreed>yes, I happen to disagree
23:20<drussell[m]>But no one cares now because everyone's too busy fighting over firewalld, iptables, and ufw still
23:20<dwfreed>protip: don't run 'halt' on systemd
23:20<Woet>i just use csf
23:20<Woet>which probably uses iptables
23:20<Woet>(still)
23:20<dwfreed>Woet: whyyyyyy
23:20<drussell[m]>It does. Every wrapper does.
23:21<Woet>cause it does my job for me
23:21<drussell[m]>But csf is primarily for cPanel systems iirc
23:21<Woet>i like things that do my job
23:21<dwfreed>csf is worse than ufw
23:21<dwfreed>(and everything drussell[m] listed is a wrapper except iptables, of course)
23:21<Woet>i mean, takes me 30 seconds to set up csf
23:21<Unit193>nftables being the newer one.
23:21<Woet>and it works
23:21<Woet>no complaints
23:21<dwfreed>though modern firewalld will use nftables if it's available
23:21<Woet>10/10 would firewall again
23:21<drussell[m]>yeah but that's not a good thing -- out of the box csf doesn't do "much"
23:22<Woet>all i want it to do is block ports with some whitelisting and blacklisting
23:22<millisa>and blackjack . . .
23:22<wraeth>I'd even forego the port blocking and white/blacklisting.
23:23<drussell[m]>dwfreed: nftables looks promising though. The fact I don't need to use iptables & ip6tables anymore is nice.
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 26 00:00:06 2018