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#linode IRC Logs for 2018-09-27

---Logopened Thu Sep 27 00:00:07 2018
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01:19<wraeth>Not just *anyone*.
01:19<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read
01:20<wraeth>Yay, the bot likes me! :)
01:21<aa>I have a question
01:23<aa>i bought a vps,forgot the user password
01:24<aa>I want to renew my fee
01:24<aa>how do I get it?
01:24<MrPPS>Should reset your password :)
01:25<aa>i forgot the linode's user and password
01:26<wraeth>aa: and
01:29<MrPPS>you can also check your previous emails for indications
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01:30<Woet>"check your password manager"
01:30<Woet>only right answer
01:31<wraeth>Not when its your browser.
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02:28<sss>The vps I bought expired, I forgot my renewal fee, and I have been deactivated. Is there any way to restore the data before vps?
02:28<sss>Is there any way to restore the data in vps?
02:29<FluffyFoxeh>It might be under images when you deploy, otherwise ask support ASAP
02:29<FluffyFoxeh>they *might* be able to help
02:29<FluffyFoxeh>as soon as possible
02:30<sss>whois ASAP?
02:30<FluffyFoxeh>ASAP means "As Soon As Possible"
02:30<FluffyFoxeh>I'm saying create a support ticket
02:31<sss>how to ask support?
02:31<linbot>Sounds like ticket time! Your problem will probably be solved much faster by submitting a support ticket, rather than hoping to catch an employee's attention here.
02:32<FluffyFoxeh>click on Support in the manager
02:32<FluffyFoxeh>And open a support ticket
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02:34<FluffyFoxeh>I thinks, therefore I ams
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08:37<Blake_>Does anyone here know how much of the ip range uses? Needing to put a block in place and not sure how much of the ip range they actually own/use
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08:39<dwfreed>I mean, at some point, Linode is going to use the entire /15...
08:39<dwfreed>but you're already gone so it doesn't matter
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08:41<LouWestin>I didn’t think you could request a block of ip addresses. I mean I know you can request additional ipv4’s from support.
08:41<dwfreed>LouWestin: they're talking about a firewall block
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09:20<Abi12> I wonder why that's relevant? Just a measure against packet sniffing ? dwfreed
09:22<Abi12>Why would he need to block the whole subnet?
09:22<dwfreed>I feel like he wants to ban Linode for some reason or other
09:22<LouWestin>I’ve only needed to block a few addresses due to attempted hacking.
09:23<dwfreed>if a Linode IP is attacking you, you should send a report to abuse@
09:23<dwfreed>Linode is one of the few providers that takes abuse seriously
09:24<Abi12>Does linode store logs on all in/out data though? That's unlikely.
09:24<Abi12>If I DDOS you once, how will linode know if someone reports to abuse.
09:24<dwfreed>they can look at your traffic graphs
09:24<dwfreed>and the reporter's logs
09:24<LouWestin>In my case I don’t believe they were Linode addresses. They were known blacklisted IP’s.
09:24<dwfreed>whois is your friend
09:25<dwfreed>(of note, OFTC does run an SSH vulnerability scanner from a Linode; it tries 5 fixed usernames and passwords, that are the default on many embedded devices)
09:26<Abi12>Traffic graphs don't show connection destinations though right? Spawning 10,000 connections to a server as a denial of service for example, and not sending any data.
09:26<Abi12>IP spoofing is a thing too.
09:26<dwfreed>you can't spoof from a Linode
09:26<dwfreed>and 10,000 connections would still make a noticeable bump in your traffic graphs
09:27<LouWestin>I had a couple addresses that were actually masking themselves as fake domains.
09:27<dwfreed>also most server software has sane timeouts, so you'd have to keep reopening those connections
09:27<dwfreed>otherwise your DoS is going to last like 5 seconds
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09:28<LouWestin>I actually came on here and got help on how to uncover the DNS info.
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09:29<dwfreed>HTTP servers, for example, won't let you hold a connection open without making a request for more than a few seconds
09:30<dwfreed>and as long as you aren't using prefork MPM on apache, holding a connection open doesn't cost anything anyway
09:31<Abi12>hmmm.. what if someone is being a smartass. They send data at 50 megabits a second to their own server ( to provide that false networking traffic ). Then whenever they want they can start a denial of service attack to another host.
09:31<dwfreed>smartasses tend to find themselves terminated pretty quickly
09:31<Abi12>heh it depends on how much memory that connection represents in the code \o/. It's not just an fd.
09:32<Abi12>plus iteration is a thing too.
09:32<Abi12>iterating through 10k false connections + the real ones.
09:32<dwfreed>10,000 connections that aren't doing anything don't cost much in memory or CPU time
09:32<Abi12>unless they're using epoll()/kqueue() they'll have to loop through the whole list.
09:32<LouWestin>In my case, the data usage was very low, but the CPU/RAM spiked up.
09:32<dwfreed>every sane server uses epoll() on linux
09:33<Abi12>you'd be surprised...
09:33<dwfreed>I said sane
09:33<Abi12>people still use select() and crash at > 1024
09:33<dwfreed>that's not sane
09:33<Abi12>*shrug* epoll() logic is complex.
09:33<dwfreed>not really
09:34<Abi12>plus you have older systems which have yet to make the port.
09:34<dwfreed>the 90s called, they want their terrible method for waiting for I/O back
09:34<Abi12>lots of printers still use select() btw
09:34<Abi12>network printers*
09:35<Abi12>it's a quick way to implement networking for a small number of questions.
09:35<dwfreed>and if you have a network printer on the internet, you should be clubbed in the head
09:35<erik_>and if your printer has 10.000 open connections it is probably overloaded
09:35<Abi12>some corporations do. They route them through a vpn tunnel so multiple locations have access.
09:35<dwfreed>that's not on the internet
09:35<dwfreed>that's on a VPN
09:36<dwfreed>which by nature requires authentication
09:36<dwfreed>stop making strawman arguments
09:40<Abi12>/s/questions/connections. I'm just saying though - epoll logic especially edge triggered logic is more complex than select()/poll() which scales linearly. The code changes - you go from wrapping fds in some Connection object, and looping through the list of those connection objects to referencing a connection object within the actuall epoll_event.
09:41<Abi12>\o\. There's stats out there which show poll()/select() is more efficient with < 50 ~ connections anyway.
09:41<dwfreed>you don't have to use edge triggering, though
09:45<dwfreed>and sure, if you know you're not going to have many connections, use poll; but if you don't, using epoll is better for scalability
09:48<Abi12>dwfreed: agreed. There's a paper out there which described the pros/cons of each.... found it:
09:49<Abi12>it's a nice read.
09:49<dwfreed>> 2004
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09:50<Abi12>rip. Everything is old \o/. epoll itself is from kernel version 2.4..? around then.
09:51<Abi12>that's what.. like 15 years ago.
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09:52<Abi12>I remember reading that they were going to implement something similar to IOCP, but were afraid of the legalities of it from microsoft.
09:54<dwfreed>"The epoll API was introduced in Linux kernel 2.5.44. Support was added to glibc in version 2.3.2."
09:54<dwfreed>late october, 2002
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12:33<relidy>In case someone's missed it, Cloudflare is apparently wading into the domain registrar game:
12:38<dwfreed>cloudflare is going to be the new single point of failure
12:41<LouWestin>I switched to godaddy since my previous host hadn’t updated their site in years which meant no 2fa, only two NS entires allowed, and the inability to update my registration info because their site has some issue where it doesn’t update.
12:42<Peng>Cloudflare zones only use 2 nameservers though :D
12:43<dwfreed>but with 10,000 servers behind them
12:43<dwfreed>LouWestin: Gandi
12:44<synapt>lol godaddy and 2FA. Problem with godaddy isn't worrying about other people getting access to your stuff and hijacking, it's worrying about godaddy jacking your domains themselves
12:44<LouWestin>It was just annoying too because when I needed to switch name servers I had to chat with support because their site was messed up.
12:45<relidy>I have to deal with GoDaddy a lot at work for customers and it kills me every time.
12:45<LouWestin>synapt: mmm...I might switch over to another service then.
12:47<LouWestin>Believe me, it was the choice of which of the two lesser evils do you want to deal with m? GoDaddy or InMotion? Lol
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12:47<relidy><shudder> InMotion </shudder>
12:48<relidy>Yeah, you made the better move.
12:48<LouWestin>LOL Ahhh, that was way back when I first got into websites.
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12:49<LouWestin>When their one server got hacked and caused a million sites to get hacked and they failed to tell us, it was time to look elsewhere.
12:50<LouWestin>Someone here recommended Porkbun.
12:52<Peng>One or two people did
12:53<LouWestin>Peng: Maybe it was you?? I don’t remember now.
12:53<Peng>I was the second person
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12:55<LouWestin>Actually I should’ve asked here before I switched but it was kind of an rushed/emergency decision at the time.
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13:12<LouWestin>I can transfer away from Godaddy next month since the 60 day lock will be lifted.
13:13<DrJ>godaddy, ehck
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15:12<@mcintosh>!to csnxs urmom
15:12<linbot>csnxs: Yo mommas so slow, Norton runs faster than her! (18:0/0) [mrumo]
15:12<@mcintosh>!upvote 18
15:12<linbot>mcintosh: Upvote added.
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15:51<LouWestin>Speaking of domain names, I remember a short lived client argued with me as to why he needs website hosting in addition to having a domain name...
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15:55<relidy>LouWestin: That's a "discussion" we have with clients at least once a month. They don't understand the difference, usually.
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16:07<LouWestin>I believe it.
16:07<synapt>LouWestin: As in he didn't understand the separation between hosting and domain registration?
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16:08<LouWestin> synapt correct. The deal breaker ultimately was he wasn’t going to pay for my work.
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16:10<Abi12>heh. I got called into fix a PC that wasn't starting.. The employee was attempting to start it by pressing the DVD eject button...
16:11<Abi12>People don't know much about computers, or there knowledge is very limited.
16:11<LouWestin>Clients not willing to pay is kind of common as freelancer
16:12<Abi12>oops. I have no clue about that.
16:12<@scrane>Also clients asking for millions of tiny revisions.
16:12<Abi12>^ this I do know of.
16:12<relidy>scrane: ++
16:12<LouWestin>I’ll have no problem explaining things in simple terms.
16:12<LouWestin>scrane: YES!
16:13<@scrane>A friend of mine added to his contract that clients would get three revision passes and after the third, which would be considered "final" they would pay an hourly rate.
16:13<Abi12>Also clients not understanding why excess security testing is needed.. or even performance testing.
16:13<Abi12>That's smart.
16:13<Abi12>LouWestin: oops. Don't switch to 1and1.. they're horrible.
16:14<@scrane>I have stories about 1and1. They aren't good.
16:14<Abi12>I was lured into their first year .99 cents offer.. now I have to deal with their horribly slow portal :(.
16:14<LouWestin>But if I tell a client a domain name is $9 -12 a year and hosting is...$5-10 a month. I mean c’mon... do you really think I’m screwing you?
16:15<Abi12>yeah. I bought my first domain with them when I was 14? The deal was good so I never looked elsewhere.. now it's just annoying sitting for 10 minutes trying to update a record.. :(
16:15<Abi12>LouWestin: that's a great deal btw.
16:15<LouWestin>Abi12: I’m staying here with Linode. Lol
16:15<Abi12>Most companies charge an extra feed. They'd add an additional 30-40 bucks monthly to that.
16:15<Abi12>oh. 1and1 is a domain registrar
16:16<Abi12>Do they do hosting..? It's probably garbage if so.
16:16<LouWestin>Yeah I only charged for service work.
16:16<synapt>scrane: 1&1 (US) as a registrar is fine, their hosting usually leaves a lot to be desired though as it's overly-shared
16:16<synapt>(That and their dedicated-server department is technically a separate entity which is really crappy)
16:16-!-synapt is now known as nate
16:16<LouWestin>But I got out of the web stuff primarily.
16:16<Peng>Abi12: I'd say they're a hosting company first and a registrar second
16:17<Peng>Then again,, their web design might disagree
16:17<LouWestin>Meaning designing
16:18<LouWestin>I’m going to take Peng’s advice and run to pork bun.
16:18<nate>Peng: They are these days yeah, they try and compete with the "Ease of launching a website" aspect godaddy always pushes off
16:18<nate>but I've been using them as a registrar since their US branch opened and haven't had any domain issues in that time span
16:18<Abi12>Peng: Their portal is extremely slow... I couldn't imagine anyone using it for those fancy web design tools.
16:18<nate>(they also don't charge extra for stuff like privacy either which most others do)
16:19<Abi12>^ that too.
16:19<Abi12>They also give you 1 email account with 5GB storage.
16:19<Abi12>ahh another con... they constantly call you about sales stuff :p
16:20<nate>they do?
16:20<nate>I've literally never gotten a call from them ever
16:20<Abi12>yup. I've gotten multiple calls from their sales reps.
16:20<Abi12>How many domains do you have with them?
16:20<nate>over nearly 20 years? quite a shit ton lol. Checked your profile settings? Probably an opt-out somewhere
16:20<Abi12>I've noticed that after a domain purchase, the calls spike and eventually die down once you tell them 'no' :p.
16:21<Abi12>really? weird. Do you use their hosting services/mail services as well?
16:21<nate> <-- "Telephone Call: No"
16:21<Abi12>oh boi. That should be 'No' by default..
16:22<nate>I do not use any of their hosting or mail no, just domains (I run my own nameservers, vps's here, etc). But I'd bet if you turn that off you'll stop gettin 'em lol
16:22<nate>In this day and age? Ain't nothing opt-out by default anymore :P
16:23<Abi12>yeah it's annoying.. haha it's not even marked yes/no.
16:24<Abi12>grr everything should just be 'no'.. and just put a little message saying '
16:24<Abi12>'check your settings to enable certain features.. blah blah'
16:24<AlexMax>Are there any known shortcomings in the linode v4 api today?
16:25<AlexMax>i.e. unimplemented features that exist in v3 but not in v4?
16:29<@mcintosh>not that i can think of
16:29<@mcintosh>there are many things in v4 that were never in v3, though
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16:59<@mcintosh>hello lakridserne!
17:03<lakridserne>mcintosh: What's up?
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17:07<@mcintosh>lakridserne: just hanging out in the office, writing some code!
17:07<@mcintosh>and yourself?
17:10<lakridserne>I'm debugging a Django application that for some reason will not show some rows in a table...
17:17<rsdehart>jticket: /35
17:17<rsdehart>meh, sorry
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17:39<frailtyy>wow mcintosh, you're still the code machine?
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17:40<@mcintosh>i am merely a human
17:40<frailtyy>I donno man. You code furiously.
17:42<rsdehart>ok I read that at first as "barely a human"
17:43<frailtyy>he's evolving nbd
17:43<rsdehart>I think I should go back to bed
17:43<@mcintosh>frailtyy: oh, it's you, hey ;)
17:44<frailtyy>I've never left :)
17:44<frailtyy>Just watching you from afar.
17:45<lakridserne>millisa: NSA
17:46<frailtyy>Big fan of that song lol
17:47*mcintosh blushes
17:47*mcintosh drinks juice
17:47<juice>Drink me up. Yum.
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17:51<@mcintosh>( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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21:28<Woet>(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ THIS IS RIDICULOUS
21:28<frailtyy>This chat has changed
21:28<Woet>m( _ _ )m
21:28<Woet>m( _ _ )m GOMEN KUDASAI.
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21:43<@mcintosh>frailtyy: nonsense
21:44<frailtyy>maybe i've changed
21:44<frailtyy>grown distant
21:45<LouWestin>Changed for the better or worse?
21:45<frailtyy>who knows
21:45<rsdehart>for the horde!
21:47<frailtyy>( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
21:49<LouWestin>Speaking of change. I should submit a couple update requests to the Minecraft guide.
21:49<LouWestin>I’ll do that tomorrow.
22:03<linbot>New news from community: Tinc vpn 2 interfaces bridging <>
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22:51<rsdehart>hi henry, is there something we can help you with?
22:51<henry>I registered your account with yahoo mail, but I received the email and found that there was no active link.
22:52<rsdehart>you mean your account?
22:52<rsdehart>that's weird
22:54<henry>The active link in yahoo mail is blank.
22:54<Woet>yahoo still exists?
22:55<rsdehart>seems so
22:55<rsdehart>henry: did it go to your spam folder or something?
22:55<millisa>what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
22:56<LouWestin>Yeah, Yahoo! Exists, but they had a major data breach sometime back.
22:56<henry>I should get an email about your server activation account with an activation link.Now, I got an email, but it didn't activate the link.
22:56<Woet>what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
22:56<millisa>there are about 4 emails at this point when you create an account
22:57<henry> This is my registered email address.
22:57<Woet>what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
22:59<henry>I need to activate a link to activate my account, otherwise I cannot successfully register the account and cannot purchase VPS
23:00<LouWestin>Ok, so what email subject(s) have you gotten?
23:00*rsdehart joins in
23:00<rsdehart>what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
23:00<Woet>it's like talking to a wall
23:01<henry>Can I send you pictures?You know what the problem is when you see the picture.
23:02<LouWestin>becareful about what you expose
23:02<rsdehart>LouWestin: he's already shared his email address with all 303 of us
23:02<Woet>302, technically
23:02<henry>Are you a robot?
23:03<Woet>and linbot is just a stupid bot that has no intelligence whatsoever
23:03<Woet>so that's 301
23:03<LouWestin>ehh.. I know. I just don't want him showing anything more
23:03<millisa>I'm not a robot on Thursdays.
23:03<Woet>The date & time is currently: Friday, 28 September 2018 at 11:03:22
23:03<rsdehart>"you know how I can tell you're probably a robot? because you're chatting."
23:03<rsdehart>-everyone, probably
23:04<millisa>hold on, are *you* a robot?
23:04<millisa>Eliza? Is that you?
23:04<henry>The yahoo mail I use cannot receive the active mail from your website. What should I do now?
23:04<Woet>henry: answer the question we asked 7 times now
23:04<Woet>henry: what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
23:04<millisa>Have you gotten a mail? If you did, how many mails did you get?
23:05<rsdehart>millisa: it's no use
23:05<rsdehart>he's immune to questioning
23:05<millisa>For all we know, you've only gotten the payment receipt mail, which does not have an activation link in it. There are multiple mails you'll get when you signup.
23:05<henry>Yes, I received five emails, but none activated the link.
23:06<Woet>if you did, how many mails did you get?
23:06<Woet>what's the subject of the mail you think should have a link?
23:06<Toba>an email does not 'activate a link'
23:06<Toba>it may contain a link
23:06<henry>I'm now signing up for an account, and if I don't activate the email, I can't move on to the next step and I can't pay.
23:06<Toba>but emails are passive entities.
23:07<rsdehart>henry: are you seeing the words we're typing to you?
23:07<rsdehart>henry: is there some reason you keep ignoring our questions?
23:07-!-emag_ is now known as emag
23:08<LouWestin>Maybe he needs to hand over his email password and I'll check..
23:08<LouWestin>I'm being sarcastic
23:08<rsdehart>LouWestin: don't do that, he just might
23:08<Woet>LouWestin: dwfreed is gonna be mad at you
23:08<rsdehart>******* is a terrible password
23:08<LouWestin>henry that's a joke
23:08<millisa>henry which emails have you gotten?
23:09<henry>Welcome to Linode! Thank you for creating your account. Please confirm your email address by clicking here: We're happy to have you on board! Please let us know if we can answer any questions. Sincerely, The Linode Team
23:09<LouWestin>Ok and did you confirm you email?
23:09<millisa>Ok, getting somewhere. And you don't see a link after 'clicking here:'?
23:10<rsdehart>does yahoo scrub useful links from emails?
23:10<Woet>henry: check the headers / raw contents of the email
23:10<Woet>In the toolbar at the top of the message, next to Spam, is a button for more options. Click it to open the menu and then choose View Raw Message.
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23:14<henry>ok thank you
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23:15<millisa>!point Woet
23:15<linbot>millisa: Point given to woet. (23) (Biggest fan: woet, total: 18)
23:15<rsdehart>Woet: you're actually a dentist, aren't you
23:16<Woet>no, but theres a first time for everything
23:16<Woet>take a seat
23:16<rsdehart>you handled that extraction masterfully
23:17<rsdehart>wait, you gave yourself 18 out of 23 points?
23:17<Woet>i'm better at insertions
23:17<Woet>( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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23:25<dwfreed>!to LouWestin rm
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23:26<Woet>LouWestin: enough.
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23:28<Abi12>dwfreed: that's great.
23:28<dwfreed>that happened in here, ages and ages ago
23:29-!-technoid_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:29<LouWestin>A little over ten years ago
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23:30<LouWestin>and rm -rf root... *Eeeeh....
23:30<Toba>got a customer to delete all their files
23:30<Toba>that's a 3 pointer
23:31<dwfreed>there's the whole log
23:31<LouWestin>that's why I didn't wanna actually write the full command
23:32<Toba>rm -rf ~/strongbad_emails
23:32<dwfreed>LouWestin: since then, coreutils accepted a patch from Ubuntu to require '--no-preserve-root' for 'rm -r /'
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23:33<dwfreed>if you do it now, it'll just tell you you're an idiot and you need that flag
23:33<Abi12>dwfreed: I read somewhere that steam had an issue in their updater which deleted /.
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23:33<dwfreed>yes, there are bypasses
23:33<dwfreed>/* is one such bypass
23:34<Abi12>millisa: beat me!...
23:34<dwfreed>!point millisa
23:34<linbot>dwfreed: Point given to millisa. (69) (Biggest fan: relidy, total: 17)
23:34*Abi12 rages
23:34<Abi12>let me go back to reading this irclog..
23:35<LouWestin>There's one of the rescue disks I use (crap can't remember the name) where you have to be REALLY careful that you don't wipe the hard drive.
23:36<LouWestin>Parted Magic!
23:39<LouWestin>I'm reading through the chat log
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 28 00:00:09 2018