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#linode IRC Logs for 2018-11-28

---Logopened Wed Nov 28 00:00:13 2018
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00:46-!-Hobbyboy is "Andrew" on #perl #openttd #oftc #moocows #linode @#YourBNC
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01:28<linbot>New news from community: I need a lot of foreign Wechat accounts, who can provide them to me? <>
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02:03<Techffodils>Hi our server is down, is there any maintenance currently running in linode
02:05<Peng> is green. Check for a support ticket.
02:06<Peng>What's wrong?
02:07<Techffodils>Our server is not getting in our office ip
02:07<Woet>Techffodils: what have you done so far to debug it?
02:07<Techffodils>How to resolve this
02:07<Techffodils>We checked the status
02:08<Techffodils>It is also not loading
02:08<Woet>Techffodils: I'm not entirely sure what "Our server is not getting in our office ip" means
02:08<Peng>Techffodils: You can't reach
02:08<Woet>Techffodils: what does the Linode panel say? does it ping? does it respond on SSH?
02:09<linbot>New news from community: SSL Not working with apache and cloudflare <>
02:10<Techffodils>Ping request time out
02:10<Peng>Is ping supposed to work?
02:11<Peng>What are your Linode's IPs?
02:11<Peng>Does lish work?
02:11<Techffodils>Our domain is
02:12<Woet>pings just fine
02:12<Woet>and works just fine
02:12<Techffodils>Here it is request time out
02:12<Woet>time to fix your internet connection then
02:12<Techffodils>May it for specific ip
02:13<Woet>was already taken?
02:13<Woet>yea, works fine.
02:14<Woet>" Gift Plan is widely called as Donation Plan as it is totally working on sending gifts to a single person which is highlighted by the MLM industry and receiving gifts from multiple of members. "
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03:16<newrod>good nite all
03:17<Woet>The date & time is currently: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 at 16:17:12
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04:10<Guest4116>hi, sorry I am newbie, can someone tell me if I can install windows server on Linode?
04:14<linbot>It is possible to run Windows on !kvm Linodes. Here's a set of unofficial instructions:
04:14<Woet>Guest4116: but why would you want to?
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04:20<Guest4116>I have to install a library software and the vender want Microsoft server
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05:19<linbot>New news from community: Make a Powerful Impact With the Power of a Good Website <>
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06:29<LouWestin>I marked that one as spam.
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09:10<linbot>New news from community: I have installed and SSL certificate, but my HTTPS traffic is redirected to port 80. Why? <>
09:36<FluffyFoxeh><Techffodils> And
09:36<FluffyFoxeh><Woet> was already taken?
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09:45*nate ended up working for a pseudo-mlm for some time without knowing just how shitty they were
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10:05<khaliid911>hi Linode
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10:06-!-descender is "Chong Kai Xiong" on #linode
10:07<khaliid911>so someone use Linode to his website host , and he use my photos ...So how cn i delete my photos
10:07<DrJ>khaliid911: I would look on the site for contact info
10:07<Woet>if you actually hold the copyright on those photos, you can contact with their server IP address, links, further information, etc.
10:07<DrJ>and try asking them to remove it
10:08<Woet>assuming contacting them directly didn't work.
10:08<khaliid911>they said " we cant remove your photos "
10:09<khaliid911>but this is my personals photos, with my personal inofmrations all in this website
10:09<Woet>then see above
10:09<Woet>doesnt sound like you have a copyright on it though
10:09<DrJ>khaliid911: were you here the other day asking about this?
10:10<khaliid911>yes before it was just my inofmrations "name, age, country" but now they put my photos with some effects
10:10<DrJ>if the image is a picture that has your likeness in it that you didn't take you don't have a copyright
10:11<DrJ>khaliid911: okay, then based on what you told us the other day you are not going to be able to get your information or the photo removed
10:11<khaliid911>its photos for my face , they take it from my fb account , i dont know how i make the "copyright "
10:12<khaliid911>i talk with , the awnser was , "we have no right to remove the informations"
10:13<DrJ>khaliid911: as I told you the other day, your ONLY recourse in this matter is to take up a civil case in the jurisdiction that the site is operated out of
10:13<khaliid911>how can i do that ? should i go to USA ?
10:14<DrJ>but most likely, unless they are committing libel against you, you have no case to begin with
10:14<DrJ>posting truthful facts about you, such as your address, name, etc is not libel
10:15<khaliid911>now ? my photos , my name , my age , my country ...i dont want that
10:15<DrJ>doesn't matter if you want it or not
10:15<khaliid911>this is not faire , how u give this person the right to do that ?
10:16<Woet>khaliid911: did you contact yet?
10:16<Woet>khaliid911: oh, you did. then contact a lawyer.
10:16<khaliid911>i contacted them every day
10:16<DrJ>and like I told you the other day, even if linode did anything they would just move to another provider
10:16<khaliid911>no they cant pay for an other provider
10:16<DrJ>oh I'm sure they could
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10:17<DrJ>the only thing you may have a case on is the photo... but fighting that is going to cost you a lot of money
10:17<khaliid911>they put more than 100 guys photos lol insult everyone
10:17<khaliid911>okay how can i delete my photos from there
10:17<DrJ>you can't
10:18<DrJ>if they don't agree to remove it, then you'll need a court order
10:18<khaliid911>but u just told me to talk with
10:18<Woet>khaliid911: and you already did
10:18<DrJ>you said linode already said they can't help you
10:18<khaliid911>yes .do u work in linode?
10:18<Woet>khaliid911: so contact a lawyer.
10:18<DrJ>so at this point you must get a court order
10:18<khaliid911>its so expensive lol
10:18<DrJ>yes it is, not worth it imo
10:19<LouWestin>Do they have naked pictures of you?
10:19<khaliid911>no its photos for my face and they add some effects to make me look like a women
10:19<khaliid911>this kind of people shouldnt use internet
10:20<LouWestin>I’ve seen much worse...
10:20<DrJ>khaliid911: who took the photo originally?
10:20<khaliid911>i can be fired from work because this website
10:20<Woet>khaliid911: then get a sane employer
10:20<linbot>New news from community: Can you recommend an iOS SSH client <>
10:20<khaliid911>i took the photos , they take all the photos from my facebook account
10:21<LouWestin>If you’re going to be fired for that then you need a new job...
10:21<Woet>khaliid911: then you don't hold a copyright on it.
10:21<DrJ>khaliid911: then you could pursue this with the courts
10:21<khaliid911>what court ..i need to go to USA
10:21<khaliid911>im not from YSA
10:22<Woet>khaliid911: no, that's not how international law works.
10:22<DrJ>it would probably have to be in the jurisidiction the company/people operate out of
10:22<DrJ>not where the actual server is
10:22<khaliid911>they are a groupe (germany, england, usa , canada )
10:23<DrJ>but you want to know what they would do if you sued them? They'd take a photo of you when you and they show up to court and just use that instead
10:23<khaliid911>you have the database , u can delete it , come on
10:23<DrJ>then you no longer have any case
10:23<DrJ>because they would have every right to use that photo on their site instead
10:24<khaliid911>so everyone can take the photos of others like that?
10:24<khaliid911>facebook dont able for thet
10:24<khaliid911>facebook save people from this kind of violence
10:24<Woet>khaliid911: why are you still here?
10:25<Woet>khaliid911: no, Linode will not brute force their way into their customers server and delete your photos just because you ask
10:25<khaliid911>im asking you to remove my photos from your database
10:25<Woet>khaliid911: and if they did, they'd a) be sued b) lose a lot of customers c) your photos will reappear tomorrow on a different host
10:25<Woet>khaliid911: it's not happening, stop wasting your time.
10:25<khaliid911>what u will do if u are in my case
10:26<Woet>khaliid911: contact my lawyer.
10:26<LouWestin>Hacking is illegal
10:26<khaliid911>are u working in Linode?
10:26<Woet>khaliid911: no.
10:26<khaliid911>what u doing here than
10:26<khaliid911>why u awnser me ?
10:26<khaliid911>who are you exactly
10:26<Woet>khaliid911: because anyone with half a brain can answer these questions.
10:27<LouWestin>If your job fires you for those pictures even after you explain the situation then that means you need a new job.
10:27<khaliid911>i was think im talking to linode here
10:27<DrJ>khaliid911: the ops here are staff
10:27<DrJ>the rest of us are mostly customers
10:27<Woet>khaliid911: then you need to read the website or topic again.
10:28<khaliid911>are u a customers
10:28<DrJ>everyone talking to you so far today in this channel are not employees of linode
10:28<LouWestin>I am, but I gave you the best advice
10:28<khaliid911>how can i talk to employees from Linode
10:28<LouWestin>A customer
10:28<LouWestin>You did already
10:28<khaliid911>just in this Email?
10:29<LouWestin>They said they can’t do anything
10:29<khaliid911>guys , where are u from?
10:29<LouWestin>The internet
10:29<Woet>so many questions
10:29<DrJ>khaliid911: you just need to drop it imo, don't visit the site.
10:29<LouWestin>And tell your job what’s going on.
10:29<@scrane>Hey there khaliid911 I'm a Linode employee. Based on what you have said so far this sounds like it would be something we can investigate further in the abuse inbox. You can send an email to with the information about the site.
10:29<DrJ>it sounds like they are egging you on and you are allowing it to get to you... which is only going to make them try harder
10:30<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
10:30<khaliid911>i take all the photos of the member of this forum and i will make a website too and i will put their photos too
10:30<DrJ>scrane: abuse@ has already told him there is nothing linode can do
10:30<Woet>and then i'll contact my lawyer and take you to court for slander
10:30<Woet>because that's how it works in the real world.
10:30<DrJ>per his own words
10:31<khaliid911>ohhh the internet
10:32<DrJ>also khaliid911: are you even positive this site is hosted on linode?
10:32<DrJ>it's behind cloudflare which means who knows where its hosted
10:32<khaliid911>drj : yes
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10:33<DrJ>there is nothing in the domain whois that says: I'm hosted on linode
10:33<khaliid911>i dont know linode before , so how u think i find this campany
10:34<DrJ>okay, then tell me what makes you think it's linode based on the whois
10:34<DrJ>because I'm looking at it right now
10:34<DrJ>they don't use linode DNS (because they're cloudflare)
10:34<khaliid911>because i talked to them and i sent them the link of this website before
10:35<khaliid911>who told u about cloudflare?
10:35<khaliid911>no i mean how u know that this website use cloudflare too
10:35<DrJ>plus the whois
10:36<khaliid911>DRJ : lets talk on facebook
10:36<DrJ>also, since they are behind cloudflare I believe it would not even be possible for linode staff to determine the server/account that site is actually hosted on
10:36<DrJ>no, lets not
10:36<khaliid911>lol why not
10:37<LouWestin>Back on topic so if linode said they can’t do anything then they can’t
10:37<DrJ>khaliid911: just how it works
10:37<nate>linode doesn't really have any magic tools at their disposal that the main public internet would have as far as discovering an end-point behind cloudflare
10:37<DrJ>but again: there is absolutely nothing in their whois that indicates they are hosted on linode
10:37<nate>*wouldn't have
10:38<DrJ>now, cloudflare would know
10:38<LouWestin>And if you don’t know where the site is hosted then it might not even be a linode
10:38<DrJ>which, at this point, is the real provider you should be contacting
10:38<DrJ>if you want confirmation of the same from someone else they can look up the site as well to confirm it's cloudflare and nothing indicated linode
10:38<khaliid911>the real provider is Linode , i talked with before and they said this website use Linode and cloudfalre
10:39<khaliid911>who told u about the domain?
10:39<khaliid911>how u find it ?
10:39<DrJ>I know everything
10:39<LouWestin>contact linode again
10:39<khaliid911>i told u the last time loool
10:39<DrJ>yes you did
10:40<khaliid911>im trying to talk to the administratorbut he is scared
10:40<DrJ>linode would not have told you they host that site
10:40<DrJ>so that's a lie
10:40<nate>I feel like linode likely didn't acknowledge they were hosting something to someone randomly, or at least in a way that lead you to thinking a -community- support room would be the next level to reach out to
10:40<DrJ>that would have been a violation of customer privacy
10:41<DrJ>since they are hiding behind cloudflare
10:41<khaliid911>just keep looking behind this website and u will find linode
10:42<DrJ>it's possible at some time you did a whois and they were infact using linode without cloudflare
10:42<DrJ>which, if that's the case, they are indeed likely still using linode, but that's not a guarentee and there is no way to know for sure now
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10:43<Suan>I am interest in VPS hosting
10:43<Suan>I have no knowledge
10:43<DrJ>Suan: do you have any linux experiance?
10:43<Suan>is it possible to go with cpanel
10:44<Suan>I want with cpanel
10:44<DrJ>linode only includes cpanel in the managed offering
10:44<DrJ>that is $100/month plus the cost of the server
10:44<Suan>what is the price
10:44<DrJ>or you can get a license yourself and install it
10:44<DrJ>lowest server plan is $5
10:44<DrJ>so with managed you are looking at $105/month min
10:44<DrJ>or you get cpanel licensed yourself but that means you must install and maintain it
10:45<DrJ>cpanel license is $200 if paid yearly
10:45<DrJ>$200/yr that is
10:45<Suan>If i hire a server guy for set up
10:45<Suan>others i can handle right
10:45<Suan>from cpanel
10:46<Suan>I have knowl;edge in cpanel
10:46<DrJ>yes, you'll likely need help from someone if you know nothing about linux
10:46<Suan>I will ask one very silly question
10:47<Suan>If i used Linode 4gb ram $20 plan and used cpanel and host a website ...will it be better than Siteground Gogeek plan
10:47<Suan>about the speed
10:48<@scrane>There are a lot of factors involved in that question. Truthfully the most accurate answer is likely "It depends."
10:48<DrJ>yea, hard to say
10:48<Suan>I will be using cache plugin
10:49<DrJ>if it's behind cloudflare and using caching then for the most part you will probably see no difference
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10:49<DrJ>if you have the linode behind cloudflare as well if you switch, that is
10:49<DrJ>why are you looking to switch from shared hosting to VPS btw?
10:49<@scrane>So some of the speed will depend on the data center where the Linode is located. That will determine lacency between you and the website. Beyond that, how fast the website loads will be determined by how well configured the services on the website are. If you are using CloudFlare for your domain hosted on Linode... then yes, I think DrJ is accurate here.
10:50<DrJ>I'll be honest, it may not be wise to switch to a VPS if you don't know what you are doing. You will be responsible for fixing any server issues and maintaining the security of your server
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10:50<Suan>I am switching because I want my website to load more faster
10:50<Suan>people suggest me VPS is the best thats why
10:51<LouWestin>Eh...not a good enough reason to switch
10:52<Suan>Thank you
10:52<DrJ>Suan: if siteground is too slow for you then you might be better off looking for a better shared hosting provider. I agree a VPS is the best option, but only if you know what you are doing or have someone to maintain it
10:52<DrJ>having someone else maintain it, unless you have a family member who will do it for free or something, will become costly
10:53<Suan>It load 2sec when tested on gtmatrix
10:53<Suan>but some of other website loads below 1sec
10:54<LouWestin>Two second load time?
10:54<Suan>my website
10:54<bigpitara>There was a free upgradation of disk space, I clicked and it upgraded to 50GB but site went down. It is showing connection refused, can somebody help...
10:54<Suan>but others blogger website loads below 1sec
10:55<LouWestin>bigpitara did you boot it back up?
10:55<LouWestin>Suan: That’s not bad actually
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10:57<bigpitara>yes, I did, but it still same
10:57<DrJ>bigpitara: is your webserver running on the server?
10:58<DrJ>maybe it doesn't start up on boot
10:58<LouWestin>I pinged it fine
10:58<Abi12>bigpitara: what web server are you using?
10:58<DrJ>how did you confirm your webserver is up?
10:59<bigpitara>In dashboard it is showing Running
10:59<bigpitara>Your Linode is currently Running
10:59<DrJ>what dashboard
10:59<Abi12>no. Your webserver mate.
10:59<LouWestin>It’s running since I could ping the url
10:59<DrJ>that's your linode, not the web server process
10:59<bigpitara>Yes but website is not working
11:00<DrJ>all that means is the server is running... doesn't mean your webserver is running
11:00<bigpitara>How to check it?
11:00<DrJ>do you have ssh access?
11:00<DrJ>that works
11:00<bigpitara>But don't have username and password
11:01<DrJ>who does?
11:01<bigpitara>One of our technical person
11:01<DrJ>if you don't you'll either need to find out who does or reset the root pass
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11:01<DrJ>in that case I'd get a hold of that person
11:02<bigpitara>After login, what I have to check
11:02<DrJ>he should know
11:02<DrJ>we can't tell you for sure because you probably don't know what type of web server you are running
11:03<DrJ>also, you might want to let him know that you are trying to get the free disk upgrade
11:03<DrJ>because most likely you are not fully using it yet
11:04<bigpitara>I informed him
11:04<DrJ>you should encourage him to set the web server to start on boot btw
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11:12<Abi12>well. I've never seen a client confident enough to attempt a server upgrade without their I.T person.
11:14<DrJ>khaliid911: I did a whois historical lookup on that site. They did use Linode in 2010. In 2011 they switched to iomart, another provider. In 2012 they started using cloudflare
11:15<DrJ>Due to them switching to iomart before they started using cloudflare, I'd say it is unlikely they use linode today
11:15<DrJ>and that should be the end of it here :)
11:16<DrJ>Abi12: yea, that's risky :)
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11:53<LouWestin>khaliid911 probably did something to piss off someone.
11:58<DrJ>he'll be back in a few days
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11:59<DrJ>but honestly, they are likely not with linode
12:00<DrJ>they were last with iomart before they started with cloudfare... looks like they jumped around a lot before that
12:13<LouWestin>Considering that he was fighting with us here and wanted to take the fight to Facebook tells me that he probably did something that got him into that whole mess in the first place.
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12:22<DrJ>like I was going to reveal my real identity to him on facebook
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12:24<LouWestin>At that point, I stopped feeling bad for him.
12:27<LouWestin>I recently started Substitue teaching at my local elementary school and if I was to compare kids behavior to adults a lot of adults haven’t evolved very far.
12:29<DrJ>I think though a lot of people on the internet are completely different from their real life personality
12:29<DrJ>same as when people are driving, they tend to be much ruder to others
12:30<DrJ>the same person may be more than willing to open a door for you and let you enter first... but when they are driving they'll give you the finger if you try to go first or get in front of them
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12:31<LouWestin>Yeah to some degree I believe that. Although at my daughter’s softball games, some adults get pretty argumentative about things they shouldn’t.
12:31<LouWestin>Like mistakes and stuff.
12:32<DrJ>oh, yea, sports bring out the worse in parents
12:32<relidy>People are inherently competitive. Parents don't like seeing their spawn getting beat up for some reason.
12:32<LouWestin>Plus I’ve left a lot of Facebook groups due to how people or handled debates or whatnot
12:32<LouWestin>relidy: right right
12:33<DrJ>when I was a kid in little league it got so bad with the coaches that they were only allowed in the dugout or in the coaches box (which was actually a full square box to make sure they knew the limit)
12:33<DrJ>one step out of that box or dugout unless they were headed to the coaches boxes or back was immediate ejection from the entire property
12:34<DrJ>one coach got a little over excited on a good hit telling the runner to advance to second that he stepped out
12:34<DrJ>he was ejected
12:34<LouWestin>A lot of parents want their kid as a pitcher which maybe 2 or 3 out of 6 have potential. I get the whole spotlight fame, but it puts a ton of pressure on the kids.
12:35<LouWestin>That said, my daughter is a catcher by personal choice/talent. Lol
12:35<LouWestin>Some coaches are terrible too. I wouldn’t coach because I’m not good enough to make those plays.
12:36<DrJ>I think with sports it comes down to the other teams parents are often on the other side of the field so you have that same barrier that makes you feel more comfortable being a jerk
12:36<DrJ>or the fence between you and the umps
12:36<DrJ>just like the barrier of the internet and you being inside a car
12:37<LouWestin>I don’t see too much with opposing team arguments. Mostly parents pressuring or criticizing their own kids.
12:38<LouWestin>Ive see coaches arguing with the ump though. lol
12:38<LouWestin>That usually doesn’t work in their favor.
12:38<DrJ>with the parents its mostly the umps they argue with, or the coach for not playing their kid enough
12:39<DrJ>I would NEVER be an ump for a little league
12:39<DrJ>I commend those that do
12:39<LouWestin>You argue with the ump, prepare to get bad calls. Lol
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12:40<LouWestin>Travel ball you’re going to have the play time issue. Rec ball is more players put into unfit positions.
12:41<LouWestin>Which comes down to the coaching
12:42<DrJ>yea, like you said earlier only a few kids can actually pitch good on most teams... the league my newphew is in had strict pitch counts and required 3 days rest after they hit that count. It required all the teams to have kids pitch who had no business pitching
12:43<DrJ>it was the worse in the playoffs because they played almost every day for a week or two
12:43<DrJ>3 days in and you have kids pitching who can barely get the ball to home plate
12:44<LouWestin>Oh yeah! We call those bowlers.
12:45<LouWestin>I’ve seen 12U kids who can’t pitch to save their life.
12:46<LouWestin>Which if it was me, I’d be really embarrassed.
12:47<DrJ>we used a ptiching machine when I played up until you were in the traveling league
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13:08<frailtyy>Howdy all.
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14:16<DrJ>frailtyy: hey
14:17<frailtyy>how's the linoding going in here?
14:18<DrJ>it's goin'
14:19<frailtyy>pretty normal. Haven't see Eugene give his daily update lately.
14:19<frailtyy>Has anyone checked on his house's cameras to make sure he's well?
14:21<csnxs`>overlinoding is no joke :(
14:23<csnxs`>speaking of over,
14:23<csnxs`>!lick mcintosh
14:23<linbot>csnxs`: Point given to mcintosh. (85)
14:41<LouWestin>There used to be this couple that had cameras in their house and you could view the footage on their website.
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14:41<linbot>New news from community: Login to my Linode via SFTP? <>
14:41<LouWestin>Way back when AOL was giving out CDs
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15:33<linbot>New news from blog: Linode Community Update – November 2018 <>
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16:51<AlexMax>I tried to create an API token that could do nothing except have read-only access to linodes
16:51<AlexMax>twice now
16:51<AlexMax>and when I look at it in the manager, I see it has read/write for everything except linodes
16:52<AlexMax>is that a display problem?
16:54<AlexMax>I'm assuming this is where I file bug reports for it?
16:55<LouWestin>I’d send a ticket
16:57<relidy>AlexMax: New manager or the "classic" one?
16:58<AlexMax>New manager
16:58<AlexMax>Also why do I need an API key for the site to tell me what kinds of linodes are available?
16:58<AlexMax>stuff you already publicly show on the pricing page
16:58<dwfreed>you don't
16:59<AlexMax>Oh, so I can get rid of the bearer token on requests to those apis?
16:59<dwfreed>click that in your browser
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16:59<LouWestin>Or forget the ticket.
16:59<dwfreed>v3 API does require an API key for all requests except api.spec
17:00<dwfreed>v4 API only requires auth for things that require auth to actually do, it seems
17:01<AlexMax>Was this mentioned anywhere in teh docs?
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17:08<relidy>Well, the example included in the docs doesn't pass any auth, so ... kinda?
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17:22<AlexMax>Ah, there's also the absence of a Authorizations section
17:22<AlexMax>Maybe a sort of explicit "Authorizations: None" or something similar
17:44<millisa>That has "Some endpoints are publicly accessible without requiring authentication. All endpoints affecting your Account, however, require either a Personal Access Token or OAuth authentication (when using third-party applications)."
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18:10<andy>any linode sales people around?
18:11<millisa>Lots of customers around; some folks might be able to answer your question.
18:12<andy>thanks. I just got burned at Digital Ocean re resizing vm's DOWNWARDS. Digital Ocean don't support that if it involved reducing SSD size.
18:12<millisa>Ouch. You can resize linodes downwards.
18:13<millisa> is about doing the whole linode, and this is about resizing a disk
18:13<millisa>(it won't let you size the disk smaller than the amount of files on the filesystem, but if you clear the space, you can size down)
18:14<andy>That's promosing thanks. DO seem to have recently changed their plans so that every plan is on a different disk size. Or is after your free credit expires. When I was on my free credit most plans had the same disk size. I wonder if they show different plans deliberately.
18:15<LouWestin>I’ve downsized without issue. Dona Snapshot back up beforehand
18:16<millisa>I'm not sure. I have a lot less DO systems than Linodes and don't think I've ever had to resize one. Linodes I frequently resize (though often will just not size the disk upwards if I don't need the space they allocate)
18:17<andy>DO offered me a solution involving creating a new VM and rsync everything to it. Then change IP addresses. I thought one of the main benefits of virtual hosting was being able to scale etc. Seems only Heroku $$$ does this properly/flexibly/seamlessly.
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19:14<gparent> yes, because Heroku does not provide the services that DigitalOcean does.
19:14<gparent>or Linode, in this case.
19:52<andy>@gparent heroku can increase and reduce seamlessly, though now that I think abut it - never looked into the disk space reduction on heroku - perhaps if you are changing disk size its a problem everywhere
19:54<gparent>yeah but does it provide you with a VM where you can install Windows on it?
19:55<gparent>my point is comparing something with a very narrow scope to a VPS provider like DO and Linode is bound to lead to those differences.
19:55<LouWestin>I don’t like their pricing vs specs.
19:56<Abi12>well linode is a pretty unique service provider. Mostly flexibility + support wise.
19:56<Abi12>I've been at other companies where it takes days to achieve what I can do at Linode with a press of a button.
19:57<Abi12>The staff is pretty generous as to what they consider support too :P. Like answering software specific questions even though you're not paying for managed support.
19:57<LouWestin>No one has convinced me to switch away Linode.
19:58<Abi12>and disk space reduction is a pretty tricky topic. I get why providers wouldn't want to automated something like that with the correct systems in place.
19:58<Abi12>'oh. I did downgrade nd lost my data..'
19:58<Abi12>'it's your fault.. how are you going to compensate me?'
19:59<gparent>easy, they wouldn't.
19:59<Abi12>true and clients don't have the money or time to waste on legal actions.
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20:00<Abi12>I knew a guy who had his account hijacked by someone. The hijacker created fake passport/newspaper documents and showed it to the hosting company, and the hosting company just gave the credentials.
20:01<Abi12>His whole database was compromised as well as his custom built server software.
20:01<Abi12>The hosting company didn't give a shit, and gave some excuses without any sort of compensation.
20:01<andy>understood re disk reduction. But what gets me is that DO plans had 25gb SSD all over the place so you never hit this disk resize issue. Now they randomise all the disk sizes for their plans to make it impossible to downsize (to be fair, some of their more expensive tiers have consistent disk sizes, allowing some downgrading).
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20:02<gparent>The sizes are nowhere near random. They also allow you to not resize the disk so precisely so you can revert back.
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20:04<LouWestin>andy: They’re doing that to be more competitive/complicated.
20:04<andy>look at the plans only the 60GB has three variants - everything else has completely different disk sizes.
20:05<gparent>Yeah, you usally expect disk size to increase when you pay more.
20:05<Abi12>andy: doesn't look that random to me.
20:05<Abi12>ram vs cpu cores
20:06<andy>by "random" I mean each plan has a *different* disk size - sorry for the incorrent terminology
20:06<Abi12>it could just be based off some metrics though?
20:06<gparent>You realize the Linode plans are set up exactly the same way?
20:06<gparent>Again, DigitalOcean allows you to resize *without* touching the disk, bypassing your issue completely.
20:07<gparent>The problem you could have is if you initially started with a VM that was too big, and then attempted to size down.
20:07<gparent>This issue won't happen on Linode if you resize your disks appropriately.
20:07<gparent>if you size*
20:08<andy>Look at what DO used to offer everything was 25GB disk size meaning no disk resizing issues. Now each plan has a deliberate different disk size to thwart us.
20:08<LouWestin>Linode lays out their plans with less confusion.
20:09<gparent>andy, are you trolling?
20:09<gparent>I think you are, but in case you're not, that's the CPU and RAM resize.
20:09<gparent>Which of course does not change the disk.
20:10<andy>just upset at DO for making me rebuild my droplet. If youlook at the pic in the link the column saying SSD DISK lists 25GB - am I missing something?
20:10<gparent>Yes, scroll up, they are selecting CPU and RAM rather than Disk, CPU and RAM.
20:12<andy>yes the option to resize CPU and RAM is allowed on plans with the same disk size only. And since all the old plans were 25GB you get lots of cpu/ram resize options. No longer with the new DO plans.
20:12<gparent>no it's allowed on all plans
20:12<Peng>DO's smallest plan had 20 GB of disk space until recently
20:13<gparent>the option with "the same disk size" is the option you want to avoid having to destroy your droplet when you resize down. It exists specifically to address the point you are complaining about.
20:14<gparent>Linode, on the other hand, handles disk resize more gracefully and this isn't really as useful.
20:16<andy>So I'm looking at my resize options for DO for my 4GB ram/80GB SSd droplet. The UI won't let me resize my memory/cpu to anything smaller, cos the smaller options are different disk sizes 60GB, 50GB, 25GB.
20:18<gparent>You could've resized down if you started from a smaller plan, then went to that plan while using the CPU and RAM only option.
20:19<gparent>You cannot start with 4 GB and go to 2 GB on DO. You can on Linode.
20:19<gparent>You can go from 2 to 4, then back to 2, on either.
20:20<LouWestin>Here’s a good question... What avenues of support does DO offer?
20:21<gparent>Email, Ticket, and Faith-based healing.
20:21<LouWestin>We got phone support and chat.
20:21<LouWestin>Plus email
20:22<gparent>Do you get faith-based healing, though?
20:22<andy>If I was on a 3GB/60GB plan I cannot shift down to the 2GB/50GB cos 50 != 60. If I was on a 2GB/50GB plan I cannot shift down to a 1GB/25GB cos 50 != 25. My point is, the only plans that allow resizing of ram/cpu are those with 60GB SSd (three options) and 80GB SSD (many $$$$ options)
20:22<gparent>andy you just don't understand the option
20:22<gparent>you are correct that resizing with disk is limited.
20:22<linbot>New news from community: any update on android app ? <>
20:22<LouWestin>I don’t use DO so no idea. But I wouldn’t have faith like that anyway
20:23<gparent>everything else you're implying about the resizing is incorrect, however.
20:23<gparent>you can resize up and down from any plan to any plan, you just can't go smaller than what you initially started with, and you can't reverse growth of disk.
20:24<gparent>so you can shift from the 2G/50 plan to 1GB/25 plan *if you started on the 1GB/25 plan*
20:24<Peng>If you want complete flexibility on DO, start from the smallest plan and never increase your disk size (until they change what the smallest plan offers).
20:24<Peng>Or use Linode.
20:25<andy>Ah I see (penny drops)
20:25<LouWestin>Anyone who believes in faith based healing is at risk to run off with the next Jim jones in the Amazon.
20:25<Peng>A droplet is stuck with the low water mark you chose at the beginning (when you were less experienced with DO's platform)
20:26<Peng>It's accurate but not very comforting to say "you should travel back in time and choose differently!!"
20:27<andy>So if I'd started on smallest plan 1/25 and gone up to 2/50 then I could later go back to 1/25 assuming I hadn't actually used more than 25GB of SSD yet?
20:27<gparent>it's not about the disk you use, it's about whether you choose to resize your disk or not
20:27<gparent>once it is done, it is done, regardless of whether you use the additional space
20:29<andy>Given that DO does not support disk resizing, then is going from 2/50 to 1/25 possible, because I started on 1/25?
20:29<gparent>it would be possible if you used the CPU and RAM only option when sizing up
20:29<gparent>if you used Disk, CPU and RAM, then no.
20:30<gparent>Also, they support resizing, just not downsizing.
20:31<andy>ok. so then the question is what are the pure CPU/RAM options. And there are no other options for CPU/RAM for a 25GB SSD. And there are no other options for CPU/RAM for a 50GB SSD. Unless they don't appear in their pricing...
20:31<gparent>They appear on the resize menu. You linked the documentation earlier.
20:31<gparent>That's what it looks like, the disk sizes are all the same.
20:31<gparent>if you clicked on the other option, the disk sizes would change for the ones appropriate for each plan.
20:32<gparent>it's one set of plans, not two.
20:33<andy>Yeah that's an old article of theirs. They've since "randomised" all their SSDs to have different SSD sizes as per I'm sitting in my DO control panel and everything is dimmed except to go up in plan.
20:33<gparent>that's not random.
20:34<gparent>the article isn't old
20:34<andy>oh I see
20:34<gparent>You probably chose the option to disk resize, and ignored the warning.
20:34<gparent>so now you can't go back down
20:35<andy>I just went to a new droplet created at the lowest 1/25 level. And tried to resize CPU/RAM. And am now getting lots of choices.
20:35<gparent>Now click the other option so you can see the difference and understand it.
20:35<andy>All with the same 25GB SSD. Lots of choices now.
20:37<andy>Tricky stuff. Its all about what you started from, yes. I started with a $$$ plan for fun cos I had free credit. Now I'm stuck!
20:40<andy>thanks gparent and peng.
20:41<LouWestin>So are you coming over to the green side?
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20:44<andy>DO isn't as evil as I thought. But since I'm rebuilding perhaps I should try Linode.
20:48<LouWestin>Just come over to us. We’re all really nice.
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20:50<andy>just tried to sign up with a promo code from talkpython, it said it would be accepted but now its rejected :-(
20:54<LouWestin>I can PM you mine
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20:58<gparent>yeah as much time as I spent clearing up the confusion, I think you'll be happier with Linode for that
20:58<andy>am creating an account now.... :-)
21:01<andy>willl be interesting to see if there is any easier VM disk resizing technology at linode
21:02<millisa>it's about 6 steps.
21:03<andy>thanks millisa
21:26<redent0r>cant i download the mobile app apk with out google store ?
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21:47<MrPPS>redent0r: linode app? hasn't been updated in 4 years
21:47<MrPPS>but yes, you could find the apk online
21:58<redent0r>MrPPS, true !
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 29 00:00:15 2018