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#linode IRC Logs for 2019-06-24

---Logopened Mon Jun 24 00:00:38 2019
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02:27<LouWestin>LouWestin Hello!
02:27<linbot>talking to yourself now? that's the first sign of insanity, you know
02:28<Guest5664>The second is when you think the bot is talking to you.
02:29<linbot>the bot *is* talking to you
02:29<LouWestin>They've gone down in price
02:30<dwfreed>they've improved price/performance; the price for the main model has remained the same since day 1
02:35<Peng>I resized one of my Linodes and now it's on an EPYC 7501.
02:35<Peng>It can be jealous of the other Linode that was already on a 7601.
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03:03<Zr40>four of mine are on EPYC 7501, one on a Xeon Gold 6148, 6 on a Xeon E5-2680 v3, and two on a Xeon E5-2697 v4
03:04<dwfreed>2680v3 here, for my 1 Linode
03:04<Peng>Both my EPYCs were on 2680 v3s before
03:06<csnxs>7501 for my linode
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03:40<linbot>New news from community: Buy designer handbags – Choose from a wide variety of styles and colors online <>
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05:15<JamesTK>Buy designer linodes - Choose from a wide variety of styles and colours online :P
05:24-!-_Cyclone_ [~Cyclone@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe1f:53f4] has quit [Quit: Heigh-Ho I'm off to...]
05:25<Zr40>I only use artisanal linodes, hand-picked and curated, aged 12 years
05:33<JamesTK>Peng: EPYC? AMD?
05:34<JamesTK>I just checked and I'm on a 7501 too
05:34<JamesTK>Need to re-tune my cflags :p
05:42<Peng>the E5-2680 v2 hosts aren't *quite* 12 years old yet
05:46<JamesTK>How old are they though :P
05:47<JamesTK>AWS has EPYC's as well, but they were apparently a bit unruly at launch
05:47<JamesTK>!point Peng
05:48<linbot>JamesTK: Point given to peng. (38)
05:49<JamesTK>Peng: wait do i want to be on a 7601?
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06:00<Peng>Yes? It's the same as a 7501 but faster and more power hungry.
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06:07<JamesTK>So, classic AMD
06:07<JamesTK>Peng: well, I didn't even know I'd ended up on Epyc last move
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06:26<JamesTK>Peng: got a gpu node yet?
06:27<Peng>Outlook not so good.
06:29<JamesTK>$1000/mo too much for your budget?
06:30<JamesTK>Could buy a basic gaming pc every month for that
06:30<JamesTK>won't cover power though
06:35<Peng>Turns out I accidentally tested the wrong branch, so I didn't test the PR. >_<
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08:06<warewolf>whee, using work's vpn to get around broken routes so I can get to my Linode.
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08:08<Woet>the internet is DYING
08:08<Woet>Eugene: HOLD ME
08:12<JamesTK>warewolf: is your linode on an EPYC?
08:14<warewolf>I um .. don't know? heh
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08:17-!-_Cyclone_ is "CPU Heat" on #linode #ceph
08:20<linbot>New news from status: Connectivity Issues - Dallas <>
08:24<warewolf>oh no
08:25<warewolf>now routing problems to my linode: A DIFFERENT FLAVOR
08:28<millisa>it's been briefly fixing itself for 5 minutes at a time, then breaking and going backt o what it was.
08:28<millisa>it's making it really noisy from the monitoring systems...
08:30<millisa>recovered for 4 mins now... i'm getting alittle hope again
08:36<warewolf>twitter tells me it's a route leak that is also impacting cloudflare; this explains the flapping
08:36<millisa>it was indeed impacting cloudflare
08:39<warewolf>ok before coffee I troubleshooted this routing problem, and reset two user accounts, and can type.
08:39<warewolf>but I just put the handle on my hand crank coffee grinder on upside down.
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08:41<ericoc> related?
08:42<Peng>Crunchyroll outages are the worst
08:44<millisa>I wonder if there times are off in the article. What i saw started exactly at 6:43am edt
08:44<JamesTK>warewolf: lscpu
08:45<warewolf>6:30a for me
08:45<warewolf>that's when my linode started whining it couldn't talk to my upstream SIP trunk
08:45<warewolf>JamesTK: oh, you mean the other maintenance window.
08:46<JamesTK>warewolf: I didn't get hit by the latest intel issue ;)
08:46<warewolf>I just recently had a discussion with someone who was blindly doing _the wrong thing_ patchig their VM boxes
08:46<warewolf>"we have to turn off hyperthreading" <article says not to turn off hyperthreading>
08:47<warewolf>"we're going to patch all the hypervisors" <article says you should research what the performance impact will be>
08:48<warewolf>like, I can totally grock Linode, AWS, Microsoft, etc patching for the speculative execution bugs. Every different flavor. Because every customer _technically_ is "untrusted code" from the eye of the service provider. They have to protect other customers.
08:48<warewolf>but at an internal shop, running entirely trusted code? No. Your chance of something going wrong _as an effect of a side channel attack_ are ZERO.
08:52<JamesTK>warewolf: hence why new aws stacks, the hypervisor is external to the box now
08:52<JamesTK>does however bring in its own problems
08:54<Peng>Wait what
08:54<Peng>Because Nitro runs on a separate chip or something?
08:55<warewolf>wait what
08:55<JamesTK>Peng: yes
08:55<JamesTK>Peng: Nitro is a PCIe card
08:55<warewolf>how does the hypervisor run external to the box
08:55<JamesTK>Peng: So is EBS and VPC
08:55<JamesTK>warewolf: DMA
08:55<warewolf>yes, direct memory access
08:55<warewolf>but that's not "I'mma execute some CPU instructions now"
08:56<JamesTK>That's how it controls the box basically
08:56<JamesTK>That and whatever else
08:56<JamesTK>But yeah, the hypervisor is on its own card
08:56<rnowak>( )
08:57<JamesTK>bare metal is nitro but you get the host to yourself
08:57<JamesTK>the thing that caused most of the issues, is EBS is NVMe over the network
08:57<Peng>Nitro is like that parasitic wasp that controls other insects.
08:57<Peng>Except good.
08:58<JamesTK>old kernels don't cope with NVMe latenct
08:58<JamesTK>Would be cool if someone could whitebox a similar solution
08:59<rnowak>the financial incentive is probably lacking unless you're a bit towards aws or google scale
08:59<Peng>Step 1: Profit
08:59<Peng>Step 2: ???
09:00<rnowak>if you've reached profit by step 1, there is no step 2
09:00<warewolf>NVMe over the network?
09:00<warewolf>lol wtf
09:00<JamesTK>warewolf: yes
09:00<warewolf>why would you do that
09:01<rnowak>plenty of crazy people run RDMA over infiniband, it isn't anything new *cough*
09:01<warewolf>why would you route PCIe over any network for storage
09:01<JamesTK>why not
09:01<warewolf>that .. no, that's not performance, that's fault tolerance
09:01<JamesTK>EBS is ... weird
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09:02<JamesTK>some of the newer xen types were already exposing EBS volumes as NVMe
09:02<warewolf>that's like, taking a 80% performance hit so that your data can be replicated, striped, and distributed so that when one of the "disks" goes down the thing that has the "disk" mounted doesn't notice
09:03<JamesTK>EBS only has a mirror though
09:03<JamesTK>And they account for performance impacts by having throttling
09:03<JamesTK>so you can't bring the whole node down for everyone else
09:04<JamesTK>local storage is much better performance wise but unless your host has a raid10 etc... you should have backups anyway
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09:09<rana>i have problem
09:09<JamesTK>I am a problem
09:09<rana>it's live support chat
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09:11-!-CompWizrd is "compwiz" on #linode #debian-tech #debian
09:11<Peng>This is a community chat room.
09:11<Peng>Some of the people here work for Linode.
09:11<Peng>Why do you ask?
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09:46<mmustac>wow, Discord is totally rektd right now. I feel for their support/ops team.
09:47<LouWestin>I left Discord yesterday. I don’t really use it
09:48<mmustac>its a good free service, wouldnt pay for it. honestly the app they built in flask or maybe electron is pretty good. I find it much better than slack.
09:49<LouWestin>Yeah there’s pros to using it. I wouldn’t pay for it either
09:49<mmustac>i remember many moons ago when they were smaller and ran on Linode
09:49<mmustac>much much smaller, they're figgin huge now
09:50<LouWestin>I’m more old school. lol or I’ll just run another voip app if needed
09:50<mmustac>hah, I feel ya
09:50<warewolf>er, wow
09:51<linbot>New news from status: Scheduled Network Maintenance - Fremont <>
09:51<warewolf>so as a result of me troublshooting wtf was up with BGP this morning, today I discover those of us legacy-as-hell folks with annual billing for linodes are being switched to hourly
09:51<JamesTK>It's a route leak
09:51<JamesTK>a lot more broke than just discord
09:51<JamesTK>-a lot more-
09:51<mmustac>ohhh really. intersting
09:52<mmustac>go on..
09:52<mmustac>gotta link or HN thread or something?
09:52<warewolf>muntie_: look at
09:53<warewolf>mmustac: ^
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09:55<Ella>Why you are not opening your India Data Center, I am waiting for it
09:56<mmustac>they're mad at you
09:56<mmustac>you have to be the big man and apologize first
09:57<JamesTK>Ella: Submit a support request. There is currently a beta
09:57<Ella>HOW I submit ikt
09:57<JamesTK>Have you signed up yet?
09:59<JamesTK>submit there and put mumbai beta in the topic and staff should be able to help you out :)
09:59<warewolf>rofl, I have a $200 credit w/ Linode, and the associated credit card on my account expired 6 months ago.
10:00<warewolf>(credit from annual billing being turned into hourly billing)
10:00<mmustac>also, try to keep the heated gamer moments to a minimum when interacting with the support peeps. that's why they're mad at you and not fast tracking the Indian DC
10:00<warewolf>that problem wouldn't creep up for _a long time_ at $30/mo but ... I'm glad I noticed!
10:01<JamesTK>launched a mumbai linode
10:01<JamesTK>seems nice
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10:21<mmustac>do mumbai Linodes come with naan? I feel like that is resonable.
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10:22<kharlan11>naan isn't really an indian thing.
10:22<kharlan11>roti is though
10:22<mmustac>oh boy here we go...
10:23<mmustac>nah Im just kidding. thats cool
11:14<millisa>pi4 is on sale
11:39<LouWestin>dwfreed mentioned that way earlier. I haven’t kept up with the pi’s. They’re on the 4th edition now?
11:53<millisa>i must have missed it. yeah. new ones have a 1/2/4gb option now
11:58<LouWestin>I bought a 3 a couple years ago
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13:23<LouWestin>I just found out Mutter on iOS is EOL...
13:28<kharlan11>eww ios
13:29<kharlan11>i'm still on lollipop
13:35<Zr40>eww android
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16:02<linbot>New news from community: Are and for all linode customers? <>
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17:33<millisa>summary is pretty good:
17:42<nuevu>They certainly didn't hold any punches in that write-up.
17:42<nuevu>"Again, the only explanation we can conceive of why it wasn't in place is sloppiness or laziness."
17:43<millisa>They forgot about malice.
17:43<nuevu>!point millisa
17:43<linbot>nuevu: Point given to millisa. (82)
17:46<warewolf>!point linbot
17:46<linbot>warewolf: Point given to linbot. (1337) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 18)
17:46<warewolf>shit, we can't give linbot any more points, linbot is leet now.
17:47<linbot>Thanks, millisa! Om nom nom
18:12<warewolf>06:12 [oftc] [linbot(] Error: "botsmack" is not a valid command.
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18:28<kharlan11>aws pricing is complicated
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18:52<LouWestin>Yep. You have to read pages and pages to understand what the service is about
19:00<gparent>The best part is picking EC2 instance types.
19:00<gparent>Is there a pricing on Internet Gateways? I don't know.
19:01<millisa>I always liked when you get to the end of a manual spinup and only then it informs you that the size isn't available in the zone you picked...
19:01<gparent>I haven't that yet thanksfully.
19:01<gparent>I just spin up micros so I'm sure they have metric tons of that
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20:59<ughugh>Is something up with dallas?
21:00<nuevu>Nothing affecting my stuff there at the moment.
21:00<nuevu>Connectivity trouble, or what?
21:01<kyhwana>I blame verizon
21:02<ughugh>Ya, can't even ping my servers
21:02<nuevu>ughugh: Lish able to connect?
21:03<ttaylor>Ticket for your linode by chance?
21:03<nuevu>Oh, have we hit any of the scheduled restarts for the latest vulns?
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21:03<ughugh>what the heck is all thsi
21:04<ughugh>Ever see anything like
21:04<ughugh>That's in lish
21:04<nuevu>Kernel dump
21:04<ughugh>Should I reboot?
21:05<nuevu>I assume it's probably "stuck" that way without one, but that error looks filesystem-related, so you may want to do an fsck on boot if you can manage that.
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21:07<ughugh>I can't even get the thing to shut down or reboot
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21:08<ughugh>shutdown finally went through
21:08<nuevu>When the system is hung, the Manage can have a little trouble trying to push through a restart. Give it some time. I think it'll eventually try more forceful methods. If not, there's always Support.
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21:10<dwfreed>the shutdown job gives the linode 2 minutes to complete an orderly shutdown, then it does the virtual equivalent of pulling the power cord
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21:16<ughugh>Is it safe to run fsck on an active server?
21:16<dwfreed>generally if the journal is flagged as dirty, fsck will get run for you during boot
21:17<dwfreed>(dirty here means the fs wasn't cleanly unmounted, which it wasn't)
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21:18<dwfreed>you can check this with 'sudo tune2fs -l /dev/sda' and look at the timestamp in the "Last checked" line
21:18<ughugh>Should I be worried about our filesystem going forward? Our server was migrated 10 days ago. Could there be a problem on the new machine?
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21:18<dwfreed>the filesystem itself is probably fine; you probably just hit a kernel bug
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21:28<ughugh>Scary hitting a kernel bug so shortly after migration
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21:51<bros402>so i'm a moron whose server had maintenance today - i accidentally wrote the date down as the 28th, and of course, with my luck, now I have a bunch of errors and my server has no connection to the internet. I've been on Debian Wheezy for waaaaaaaaaay too long because of medical stuff, so the guide on what to do if unreachable after maintenance doesn't apply to me
21:51<bros402>it isn't accessible outside of LISH - tried to ping and and got "connect: Network is unreachable"
21:51<bros402>anyone willing to help a very embarrassed moron
21:52<dwfreed>does /etc/network/interfaces look sane?
21:53<wraeth>I had a host switch interface name from eth0 to enblahblah, which broke networking bound to the interface name.
21:54<dwfreed>wraeth: wheezy did not ship systemd by default
21:54<dwfreed>I doubt he's running it
21:56<bros402>looks sane to me, let me show you a screenshot -
21:56<wraeth>dwfreed: Neither was I. Not saying it's the issue, just that if the network is configured by interface name, it might break, so something to watch out for. Not sure what caused it with my system, but it was during maintenance.
21:57<ttaylor>I had one with dhcp missing the default gateway.
22:01<dwfreed>bros402: change allow-hotplug to auto; then run 'ifup eth0'
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22:03<dwfreed>wraeth: the "Predictable" network interface names is also in udev and eudev; I believe at one point a change was made to not exclude virtio_net interfaces from it
22:04<dwfreed>also the udev rule file to mask changed from 80-net-name-slot.rules to 80-net-setup-link.rules
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22:04<alan>how do i upgrade my php to 7.2?
22:04<alan>i ran yum update php but it only brought it to 7.1.30?
22:05<bros402>There we go, that worked, thank you dwfreed - now for me to bring it up to modern times :P
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22:05<millisa>!point dwfreed
22:05<linbot>millisa: Point given to dwfreed. (79) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 17)
22:05<wraeth>dwfreed: That's what confused me - I don't think there was a change to udev, but that's what broke my network. Not complaining about it, either, just a "worth checking if networking broken".
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22:06<dwfreed>it's really annoying
22:06<millisa>alan: where did you get your php from before? remi's repo has php72. I *think* IUS does too
22:07<alan>pretty sure remi
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22:08<millisa>yum info <packagenamegoeshere> should tell you
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22:11<jpleau>Hi. Quick questions: I'd like to use a linode to send emails (can go from 5k to 200k a day). Every single one of them is because the recipient signed up and accepted to received those mails (and since we're in canada, we have to follow the C-28 law regarding spam). Is this an acceptable use of a linode?
22:11<alan>had to update yum before, not its 7.2!
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22:13<millisa>jpleau: Mail is allowed on linodes as long as you are following the aup/tos & .
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22:15<millisa>jpleau: 200k a day is a lot to try to manage; using a service that specializes in maintaining the opt out stuff like mailgun or SES should be something you consider
22:16<jpleau>millisa: I'm fully aware of that, but I was asked to do it this way :) Cheers
22:17<jpleau>I did read the AUP but not tos, it clearly mentions emails, duh. Thanks :)
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23:10<v0lksman>uh oh
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23:16<millisa>hooray! my first maintenance!
23:17<millisa>It was down roughly 10 mins
23:21<Peng>Pretty nice
23:22<Karrde>I forgot about my maintenance
23:22<Karrde>It's going on now
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 25 00:00:39 2019