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#linode IRC Logs for 2019-12-16

---Logopened Mon Dec 16 00:00:26 2019
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00:29<nate>Didn't atlanta have like a battery bank fire or something ages ago that impacted linode?
00:31*Peng_ sprains face scowling
00:31<Peng_>Atlanta's had a million outages that impacted Linode, but they never said any involved anything that dramatic.
00:31<Peng_>You're not thinking of The Planet's transformer(?) explosion, are you? (Which didn't affect Linode.)
00:34<nate>nah, this was like yearrrs ago, pretty sure there was some sorta UPS bank fire or something at one of the few locations at the time, thought it was atlanta
00:35<Peng_>Well, under the circumstances, it would almost have to be Atlanta or Fremont 1. The other data centers aren't that unlucky. :D
00:36<Peng_>Well, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't remember that. Hm.
00:37<nate>I thought it was a linode relative event but it might notta been
00:37<nate>maybe I'll try to search through my logs for the word "Fire" in here lol
00:41<Peng_>Back in May, Toronto had a network outage because the fiber caught on fire. But that was a safe distance from the data center. :D
01:04<FluffyFoxeh>> * Peng_ sprains face scowling
01:04<FluffyFoxeh>have a cuppa tea and relax ^^
01:05<Peng_>I was actually drinking tea when I wrote that :D
01:14<FluffyFoxeh>remember when one of the locations was getting knocked down particularly hard by DoS attacks m
01:15<FluffyFoxeh>They were all getting hit but one of them was most severely affected
01:15<FluffyFoxeh>2016 ish maybe?
01:23<Peng_>The Christmas DDoS! D:
01:23<Peng_>Atlanta got it worst and London got it second-worst.
01:24<Peng_>I imagine Dallas was the main target, but it weathered it well.
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03:10<rsdehart>hi chandu
03:10<rsdehart>welcome to community chat
03:18<chandu>I have quick question but not sure is this right forum to ask.
03:18<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read
03:19<rsdehart>if it isn't the right place, maybe someone can point you in the right direction
03:20<chandu>Currently we are using AWS, and we are happy with the service except pricing part. I heard about Linode and saw the straight forward pricing & plans. So my question the pricing will apply what ever listed in the website (or) is this again like AWS charges like per instance, per usage,...etc etc?
03:20<rsdehart>no, what you see is what you pay
03:20<rsdehart>no games
03:21<rsdehart>usage is billed hourly up to the cap shown per month
03:21<rsdehart>so if you use all month you end up paying the listed monthly cost
03:21<rsdehart>if you use a portion of the month, you'll pay the hourly. The monthly cap is reached somewhere near the end of the month anyway
03:24<chandu>cool this is what I needed, so does not matter how many hours I am using....All I want is I select the plan and pay fixed pricing so that it will be easy for me...And in AWS - every month I pay different amount and we are confused totally
03:26<chandu>so is there any hours limitation per plan/pricing? Let's say I select "4 GB RAM2 CPU Cores80 GB SSD4 TB Transfer" for $30/month. Will I have any limitation on #hours usgae per month?
03:26<grawity>no, that $30 is for running it 24/7 the whole month
03:27<rsdehart>thanks grawity
03:27<grawity>although if it's like mining foocoin at 100% CPU through the whole month, they might not be happy about that
03:27<chandu>cool, whether I run it or not running it - I will pay $30/month based on my plan - this is what I need so that no confusion on pricing
03:27<rsdehart>it's for as long as the instance exists yeah
03:29<chandu>and S3 storage also same thing right - there are no separate costs like for download, upload, view, store, archive like AWS?
03:30<grawity>the "object storage" service?
03:30<grawity>appears to be the same, just a fixed monthly price based on size
03:31<grawity>well, I'm looking at the "pricing" part of anyway
03:32<chandu>one last question - any idea on setting rules in object storage? Like I want to set the rule like - auto delete files/folders every 24 or 48 hours and send them to archive folder incase if I need it..
03:34<grawity>I'm going to guess "not yet" since it's a relatively new service, but maybe wait for staff for that one
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04:05<Chandu>Thanks grawity
04:08<Chandu>is there any platform for linode experts where I can take some help by paying? I need this service for migration and continuous support
04:10<Chandu>'s going to be ticket based help (or) phone/webex help whenever we need help?
04:13<rsdehart>I don't know. I've never used it
04:13<rsdehart>ticket based help is available with unmanaged
04:15<Chandu>got you
04:16<Chandu>what is the difference between Block Storage Vs Object Storage? I know about object storage and I think this one something like S3 storage in AWS...but what is block storage..and plan pricing says $1/month for 10GiB
04:17<Chandu>sorry for my basic questions but I am new so trying to find out and clarify before we migrate to linode
04:26<grawity>Block Storage is an additional disk that you can attach directly to a VM
04:26<grawity>Object Storage is, well, S3-like thing
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09:00<linbot>New news from community: IP Sharing is not working <>
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09:21<sp>hey guys, unable to get a DHCP offer, and therefore no ipv4 address... any tips?
09:21<grawity>can you reach the gateway if you configure the address statically?
09:21<sp>syslog after 'dhcpclient eth0': dhclient: No DHCPOFFERS received.
09:22<grawity>tbh I don't...remember whether Linode had DHCP at all
09:22<sp>will try that, thanks
09:22<grawity>I guess it did
09:22<grawity>but in any case, manual configuration would be a good test
09:22<grawity>does the same server have IPv6 available?
09:31<sp>manually set gateway and DHCP server, it worked this time
09:31<sp>thanks for the hand holding friends :)
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09:43<dwfreed>grawity: Linode does have DHCP servers, but static configuration is preferred (hence the introduction of Network Helper to do the static config for you)
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11:20<linbot>New news from community: How do I set up DNS on cPanel? <>
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11:25<millisa> Greetings
11:25<Guest11732>any support staff here?
11:26<linbot>Guest11732: If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read
11:26<Guest11732>That can look at a ticket for me
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11:30<@rgerke>I'm with the SUpport Staff. How can I help?
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11:45<slaing>/set/leconk user
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15:11<linbot>New news from community: Why does free show less memory than my Linode plan? <>
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16:09<Peng_>If you're ping6ing something, and about 0.01% of the responses are TTL exceeded, does that indicate a network misconfiguration, or just Internet weather?
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16:15<cews>Depends how minor he misconfiguration..
16:16<cews>0.01 though, I wouldn't call it in.
16:19<Peng_>Fair enough
16:21<cews>Tell I'm not the networking guy.
16:21<linbot>New news from community: Switching from 64-bit (x86_64) to 32-bit (x86) Slackware 14.2 kernel <>
16:26<grawity>Peng_: probably a moment where unplanned network reconfiguration happens, e.g. interface goes down and routing protocols haven't reacted yet
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16:30<Peng_>Mmph. And some ISPs do more unplanned reconfiguration events than others. :D
16:42<linbot>New news from community: How do I open a port in my Linode's firewall? <>
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17:02<galexand123>so........the new terms of service is 403 Forbidden ?
17:03<millisa> ?
17:03<millisa> /tos sends me there now
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17:09<millisa>the order of section 1 in the data processing addendum is bad
17:11<millisa>"Covered User" is not defined.
17:11<galexand123> is what was in the email :) so thanks!
17:11<millisa>didn't even see the email, so thanks to *you*
17:12<cews>Definitions page?
17:12<millisa>they updated a bunch of their legal cruft. this page is the one i'm reading now:
17:12<millisa>1.3 should be before 1.4, should be before 1.2, should have a definition for covered user, then should have 1.1.
17:13<cews>Are you a lawyer?
17:13<cews>I'd never noticed
17:13<millisa>not the last time i checked
17:14<cews>You never know
17:14<cews>You define the law.
17:15*cews nods
17:15<millisa>galexand123: did you just get an email with that in it? (I'm still hunting my stuff and haven't found where they sent something about this)
17:18<millisa>ah, must just be starting a run on it then. maybe they halted it after folks reported the link mistake
17:20<galexand123>i don't know how these things are sorted but i joined in 2003 :)
17:20<millisa>got me beat by 6 years
17:21<nate>No idea how long I've been here, guess I could check my emails for my first invoice but pretty sure it hasn't been -that- long
17:21<nate>not even close to lol
17:21<millisa>it shows on the account page in the old manager
17:21<nate>Ah does it?
17:21<nate>Is that still up? I'm still dreading trying to log into that one day and finding it gone, I love the old manager :(
17:22<nate>Ah good a month and a half still
17:22<millisa>guess it's on the new manager, too. over on the right 'Active Since:'
17:22<millisa>section 5.3 of legal-dpu mentions the Linode privacy SUP. Don't think I've seen the 'SUP' term used; assuming it means the 'Privacy Policy' at /legal-privacy?
17:22<nate>2011, longer than I thought
17:23<millisa>'linode privacy stand up paddleboarders'
17:27<millisa>(supplemental use policy; i'm assuming from the MSA terms section)
17:27<@rgerke>nate: If you like the Classic Manager, try 'Compact Mode' on the new one. Irt gives it a similar look
17:31<millisa>bleh to rolling out this kinda change in the last 2 weeks of the year to go into effect in only a few weeks :(
17:38<chesty>"You will immediately notify us in the event your use of any Service is for a non-business purpose; and " why?
17:39<nate>yeah that seems like really poor wording lol
17:40<millisa>"Resale Prohibited. Covered Users are prohibited from selling or reselling any Service unless you, on behalf of yourself and all Covered Users, consent to the appropriate reseller SUP or SPA without exception. " i'm not sure how I deal with that
17:42<nate>When exactly are these new terms supposed to go into effect?
17:42<millisa>it says 1/1 at the top
17:42<nate>I technically haven't even agreed to new terms in like two years, I just keep skipping them in the classic panel >.>
17:43<Peng_>nate: Same!
17:44<chesty>not a lawyer, but I think it says by using a service you agree to the tos
17:44<millisa>the bit in bold at the top claims that anyways
17:48<nate>chesty: Yeah but there's been a lot of cases in the US where it simply saying that doesn't apply, which is generally why most services explicitly make you click an "I agree" or such
17:49<chesty>how about this, when you created the account you agreed to a tos that said you agreed the tos could be updated?
17:49<chesty>(again, not a lawyer, I have no idea)
17:52<nate>That one I'm not sure of lol, I don't think I've ever heard of a case like that. But one could argue that's common sense and that sure it could be updated but we still wouldn't have to explicitly agree :P
17:53<nate>I think those non-business and reselling clauses are probably gonna cause a lot of issues (since like all but one of my linodes are personal use for random stuff)
17:54<nuevu>chesty: Which document and section has that non-business clause?
17:54<millisa>10.2 in the msa
17:55<chesty>it's what's a master service? is there another tos for non-business users?
17:57<millisa>section 8 makes me nervous too :(
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17:59<chesty>I guess master services agreement means it's the main agreement and there are other sub agreements that may be applicable
17:59<millisa>that's generally the idea. more a parent/child relationship
17:59<chesty>clinger loves section 8
17:59<@mcintosh>millisa: ooc what about section 8 makes you nervous?
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18:00<millisa>i dont want you to outsource your tech support :)
18:00<@mcintosh>that's not happening
18:00<millisa>there's a decade of goodwill that tells me you are going to do all the right things. but you know . . .seen it before
18:00<@mcintosh>I believe that is meant to cover things like e.g. remote hands
18:00<@mcintosh>since we don't have employees working in-person in each DC
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18:01<millisa>the *real* reason the mouseover-thumbnail-page of portraits disappeared!
18:02<millisa>8.2 - '(each a "TSP Request")' - probably doesn't need the 'a'
18:03<@mcintosh>millisa: will pass that along
18:04<millisa>biggest concern right now is needing to know how to address that resale section since it covers most of what I (and the other customers of linode that I manage) do. ticket time or more info coming?
18:04<pfu>Hello Millisa, re resale, please see here:
18:05<millisa>thanks. didn't see it on the main page. i see it now in the program policies section. lot to read
18:06<@mcintosh>millisa: opening a ticket would be great
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18:07<nuevu>"shall be effective within fourteen (14) days of being posted by Linode or by your continued use of the Services, whichever sooner."
18:07<nuevu>So, you post a change to the policy, we continue using the services while that review is happening, and suddenly we've agreed to the terms by "continued use" since that happens "sooner"?
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18:08<nuevu><-- Also not a lawyer.
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18:10<Peng_>How do you avoid 'using the Services'?
18:10<nuevu>Pretty much my question, just more succinct.
18:12<pfu>Nuevu, Peng try refreshing
18:13<nuevu>pfu: I don't see any change to the Reseller Policy, section 6 which is where my quote/question came from.
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18:32<millisa>section 9 of aup is awkward (extra space/indention of the bold bit, and bullet 2 needs editing; i'm not sure what word is extra in there; 'including' maybe?)
18:33<chesty>"You consent to resolve all Disputes arising from or related to the Services in accordance to the Terms of Service and in your individual capacity; " I wish I knew what "in your individual capacity" means here. consent is interesting too, apparently the legal definition is an agreement between two people to engage in sexual activity.
18:34<millisa>opposed to your official capacity
18:34<wraeth>I think it's code for "no class actions".
18:37<chesty>it sounds like a business can't resolve a dispute also a lawyer can't represent you, not saying that's what it means, just saying that's what it sounds like it means to me.
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19:00<FluffyFoxeh>"You will immediately notify us in the event your use of any Service is for a non-business purpose" ← Yeah, what on earth does that mean? :P
19:05<FluffyFoxeh>All of my use of Linoe is non-commercial
19:08<FluffyFoxeh>Why does it matter?
19:16<millisa>maybe something to do with how they have to respond when a gdpr violation is reported? who is/isnt applicable?
19:18<pfu>FluffyFox, good evening from Philadelphia!
19:21<pfu>Thanks very much for your question. The clause you pointed out helps us with our current and future regulatory compliance needs, some of which request distinction between business and non-business uses.
19:22-!-mode/#linode [+o pfu] by jackley
19:23<millisa>To comply with that requirement, folks are going to need a (simple) way to do that notification and probably a way to mark it by service or account wide
19:26<Peng_>Anarchy today!
19:27<FluffyFoxeh>Ah, I see
19:29<FluffyFoxeh>I'm curious, what is an example of something that requires that distinction?
19:29<millisa>"The following applies to this Linode (check all that apply): [ ] Business use [ ] Non Business use [x] Steve Buscemi use [x] Cat videos"
19:38<@pfu>There are lots of examples, spanning from data localization to taxes, customer-side insurance to Linode legal compliance
19:39<Peng_>[x] Complaining about Linode terms of service use
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20:08<FluffyFoxeh>I wonder what specific parts of those things distinguishes between a "business" and a non-"business" use. Though I have only peripheral knowledge of the law, I'm not aware of that distinction being commonly defined or recognized.
20:09<FluffyFoxeh>There are special provisions for non-profit corporations, "non-business use" doesn't sound like it refers to that (or they would have used the term non-profit)
20:13<FluffyFoxeh>If Linode wants to be informed of the nature of one's use of the services, that sounds harmless enough, so whatever. But I don't understand why.
20:15<FluffyFoxeh>And I would be interested to know if (and how) my declaration would affect my interactions and relationship with Linode.
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21:23<LuongLam>hello, i need help.
21:23<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read
21:25<LuongLam>My friend signed up for the link: but doesn't have $ 50 in the account. So is this promotion valid?
21:26<dwfreed>did they complete their signup and deposit at least $5 ?
21:27<dwfreed>I guess the deposit part isn't required for this one
21:28<LuongLam>No, Linode does not require an additional $5
21:31<dwfreed>yeah, just said that
21:31<dwfreed>but they still have to complete the signup and provide their card information
21:31<dwfreed>did they do that?
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21:34<LuongLam>They have completed, but in "Current Balance" and "Promotions & Credits" are not $ 50 according to the ad
21:35<LuongLam>Sorry, I didn't write well in English
21:36<dwfreed>They should open a ticket
21:47<LuongLam>I have created a ticket for them, but I have not yet answered from Linode. I hope Linode has a live chat.
21:49<LuongLam>I have recommended this promotion to my friends, and I am very afraid when they have difficulties.
21:49<dwfreed>They don't; Linode gets a lot of support tickets, so it can take some time to get a reply
21:55<LuongLam>Do you know who is Linode's support in this channel?
21:56<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information:
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22:59<jason_>why account can't be active?
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23:03<linbot>New news from community: Announcing our new Legal & Compliance Center <>
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23:48<dwfreed>basic terms #7 seems odd?
23:49<dwfreed>specific terms 2.1 forbids reselling
23:52<dwfreed>ah, 4.4 covers reselling
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 17 00:00:28 2019