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#linode IRC Logs for 2020-02-21

---Logopened Fri Feb 21 00:00:05 2020
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02:42<linbot>New news from community: how to enable .net framework ? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19476>
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07:13<zero_>he
07:14<rsdehart>hi zero_ and welcome to Linode community chat
07:14<rsdehart>!ops
07:14<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information: https://www.linode.com/contact
07:14<rsdehart>I'm not a bot
07:14<rsdehart>and I can't think of why a bot would say "I'm not a bot"
07:15<rsdehart>zero_: is there anything we (and "we" might in fact just be me, in which case I apologize
07:15<rsdehart>) can help with
07:16<zero_>why my account cant login?
07:16<zero_>name : zero_ares
07:17<chesty>zero_, you'll need to contact support via email or phone
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07:22<rsdehart>whoops, thanks chesty
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07:23<rsdehart>hi Kniaz1, and welcome to Linode community chat. I'm not a bot
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07:29<linbot>New news from blog: We’re Hitting the Road for DeveloperWeek 2020! <https://www.linode.com/2020/02/11/were-hitting-the-road-for-developerweek-2020/> || Information on Intel’s Latest Vulnerabilities and Linode <https://www.linode.com/2020/01/28/information-on-intels-latest-vulnerabilities-and-linode/> || DDoS: An Additional Layer of Security from Linode <https://www.linode.com/2020/01/24/ddos-an-additional-layer-of-security-from-linode/> ||
07:33<linbot>New news from community: how to enable .net framework ? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19476> || How do I extend the root partition? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19475> || why my file manager is not opening ? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19474> || Why is my Linode using 100% disk storage? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19473> || Login History <https://www.linode.com/community/questions
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09:40<bn_work>woah, life, yay!
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09:41<bn_work>any devs here for the new Cloud Manager?
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09:46<@jackley>bn_work: I don't think so – but perhaps one of us can help?
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09:50<bn_work>jackley: thanks, had no idea this channel existed, been living over in Freenode's #linode for the last 2-3 years :)
09:50<@jackley>oh!
09:52<bn_work>so there's an extremely annoying bug with the new Cloud Manager whereby the (now JS webclient) "app" sets some kind of global full-page timer refresh that fires off every few hours. This has had the effect of spiking client CPU/network usage, erasing partially filled form fields, causing redirects to a login page or an HTTP 521 error from CloudFlare when they fail to refresh (which both end up just messing up Tabs Outliner "bookmarks") :(
09:52<bn_work>https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3YkzybCz/cloud.linode.com_full-page-refresh_JS-AJAX_nonsense.png
09:53<bn_work>https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/kf4z7LH7/cloud.linode.com_CloudFlare_HTTP_521_error.png
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09:58<@jackley>> sets some kind of global full-page timer refresh that fires off every few hours.
09:58<@jackley>how many hours?
09:59<bn_work>jackley: I basically now have dozens of tabs that are now in this state because of this that I now need to "reset"/reload (it seems to be back up now) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5syyzLud/cloud.linode.com_tabs_all_Web_server_is_down.png
10:00<bn_work>jackley: I only recently started tracking the timing but when I last checked it seemed about 4 hours
10:00<@jackley>hmmm
10:01<bn_work>like I really don't know what the designers were thinking when they designed this, basically they have just brought on massive server load upon themselves by forcing a client-side timed reload
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10:06<millisa>the little events bell in the upper right checks in regularly for.. well, events.. on the account. guessing they were thinking people would like to see them whent hey happen
10:06<@jackley>bn_work: does this happena across browsers and different devices?
10:06<dwfreed>millisa: that doesn't reload the whole page, though; it's an XHR
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10:07<hdb2>I'm reading about object storage, and I just want to confirm something: buckets *cannot* be mounted in linux, only accessed over http?
10:07<bn_work>this is one of the reasons JS apps (no offense to any JS devs) suck, IMO. The old classic REST-ful UI was close to *perfect* and just needed to be updated to the new API version, no unnecessary JS running on the client-side using overly complex React (or equivalent) components/modules all so the page loads 0.00001ms faster via progressive-DOM updates, than if it was just a pure, server-side app that returned plain HTML and nothing more.
10:09<bn_work>it also would be much more portable/compatible across devices
10:10<dwfreed>re portability, the exact opposite is true
10:10<bn_work>jackley: I haven't tried other browsers yet but I guess I could try Safari too but Safari tends to be more resource hungry
10:10<dwfreed>I can open cloud.linode.com on my phone and it's useful; the same was not true of classic manager
10:10<bn_work>dwfreed: plain HTML is less portable? how so?
10:10<grawity>the UI might have been perfect, but wasn't the underlying server-side tech about as old as PHP 5.0?
10:11<dwfreed>grawity: I mean, Linode did update ColdFusion
10:11<@jackley>bn_work: okay – ya if you could try across some different browsers, that'd be helpful.
10:12<dwfreed>bn_work: because responsive pages are extremely difficult to do with CSS alone, without designing for it from the ground up
10:12<bn_work>grawity: so update PHP then? not force feed JS upon users?
10:12<millisa>having devtools open with the 'preserve log' box checked on the network tab might give a hint what's happening too
10:12<dwfreed>millisa: I have that setup now
10:13<millisa>or whatever your browser's equivalent of that is
10:13<@jackley>bn_work: when you're reloaded, are you sent back to login.linode.com?
10:15<bn_work>dwfreed: define "responsive", do you mean latency or "Responsive Design"? (ie: where the UI is progressively degraded and functionality dropped (*cough* butchered) for devices with smaller screens then that is also a flawed paradigm)
10:15<bn_work>millisa: thanks for the suggestion, I will try that too, to see what happens when the next "refresh wave" hits
10:16<millisa>it might help nail down the times, too
10:16<dwfreed>responsive design doesn't mean that at all
10:16<bn_work>jackley: I think so, at least the URL is, but it's not the login page though IIRC
10:17<dwfreed>but this isn't #fundamentalism, so this argument is pretty off-topic
10:18<@jackley>bn_work: the results of millisa's suggestion might help us, yeah – this *might* be the session expiring
10:18<@jackley>!point millisa
10:18<linbot>jackley: Point given to millisa. (129) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 19)
10:24<bn_work>dwfreed: perhaps.. although you still didn't answer the question. Did you mean the former or latter? (I'm assuming the latter by your response, if so, and the design intent was never that, that's re-assuring, but sadly degradation/removal of features is how I've largely seen it implemented in practice)
10:24<bn_work>jackley: yes, I suspect it may be a session timeout, how long are sessions supposed to last?
10:27<@jackley>I can double check. Access tokens given out via the API expire every 2 hours.
10:27<bn_work>jackley: I feel the designers envisioned a user to be sitting at a single page the entire day and navigating through that, but it's very inefficient which is why I usually have multiple tabs opened, ie: one per server (or occasionally to a setting of a server)
10:29<bn_work>the tabs automatically "hibernate" if unused for a while to save memory
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10:33<dwfreed>which means that the js can't refresh the access token in the allowed time, and has to go through the reauth flow, which means having to bounce back to login.linode.com
10:33<dwfreed>so it's reloading because of your setup, not because of Linode
10:36<bn_work>dwfreed: that basically means Cloud Manager hasn't created a stateless REST-ful app, it shouldn't just force a page refresh after the timer expires, token should be refreshed on action from the client
10:37<bn_work>s/Cloud Manager hasn't created/Cloud Manager isn't/
10:37<dwfreed>You have a certain window within which you have to refresh the token, otherwise you have to reauth
10:38<dwfreed>in order to reauth, you have to bounce back to login.linode.com, because it may need you to enter creds again
10:40<dwfreed>that's simply the fact of the matter with OAuth2; otherwise, stealing the access token means you have permanent access until it's revoked
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10:44<bn_work>dwfreed: yes, I know what login.linode.com is, having forced JS run to do a full-page reload via a timer itself is what I'm saying is wrong. How is the access token being "stolen" if it can be revoked and expires at the end of the session?
10:45<dwfreed>it's not triggering a page reload; it's literally redirecting to login.linode.com, which issues a new token, then redirects back to cloud.linode.com
10:46<dwfreed>this isn't necessary if the token is refreshed within the refresh window, but your "hibernate" is preventing that
11:04<linbot>New news from community: How Can I Copy My Disk to Block Storage? <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19477>
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12:14<bn_work>dwfreed: the effect is the same, the current client-side state is wiped with all the effects mentioned earlier, even w/o the "hibernate" feature.
12:18<dwfreed>the manager currently redirects to login every 2 hours, there's no refreshing of the token
12:19<dwfreed>it's being discussed internally already
12:39<dwfreed>it's worth mentioning that it's not exactly based on a timer; it's triggered by the token expiring, and the API returning 401
12:52<nate>Hm, bit of fremont IPv6 hiccups?
13:00<@mcintosh>nate: i didn't notice anything (doesn't mean it didn't happen, though)
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13:18<packetcat>my monitoring is notifying me that it can't reach Linode Fremont over v6, my monitoring server is in DigitalOcean NYC3
13:21<packetcat>mtr from both hosts - https://paste.ee/p/LAuvs#Vk7zhxH9SAroN0st9Wb1Ts2TQiea28G2
13:22<packetcat>aaand it just fixed itself
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13:40<cews>matrix, again
13:40<cews>fremont ipv6 had a blip
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13:52<PHU7UR3>Hello
13:53<millisa>Greetings
13:53<PHU7UR3>Newbie here...
13:54<@mcintosh>mcintosh here...
13:54<millisa>red 5 standing by...
13:54<PHU7UR3>hmmm
13:55<millisa>!ask
13:55<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read http://alexfornuto.com/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
13:56<PHU7UR3>How do things work here?
13:57<millisa>What do you mean by 'here'? At linode? Or in the irc channel?
13:58<PHU7UR3>At linode,am actually new to irc too
13:59<millisa>There's a getting started guide that walks through what it's like to spinup a system: https://www.linode.com/docs/getting-started/
13:59<millisa>Definitely start with that
14:00<PHU7UR3>ty
14:01<millisa>Generally - these are unmanaged vps. you do everything from spinning up the OS to installing/managing the packages. they supply the raw resources for you to create the setup you need.
14:04<kenyon>and it's the best
14:10<PHU7UR3>Yeah have read the resources provided
14:29<@blaboon>ah ok
14:29<@blaboon>wrong window, ignore me *disappears*
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14:43<Dragon>ah ok
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15:12<PHU7UR3>lol
15:15<linbot>New news from community: SFTP setup <https://www.linode.com/community/questions/19478>
15:31<LouWestin>PHU7UR3: The more comfortable you get with Linux terminal commands the more it helps
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18:47-!-freelikegnu[m] is "@freelikegnu:matrix.org" on #linode
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18:49-!-ia is "ia" on #linode
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18:51-!-kwmonroe is "Kevin W Monroe" on #linode
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19:18-!-eatonphil[m] is "@eatonphil:matrix.org" on #linode
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19:52-!-io____[m] is "@io____:matrix.org" on #linode
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19:54-!-WhizzWr is "Nothing is real" on #redditprivacy #pcl #oftc #linode
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20:25-!-tomchen[m] is "@tom.chen:matrix.org" on #linode
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20:54-!-sm[m] is "@simonmic:matrix.org" on #linode
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21:02-!-CouldBeBob[m] is "@tomami:matrix.org" on #linode
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 22 00:00:06 2020