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#linode IRC Logs for 2020-03-01

---Logopened Sun Mar 01 00:00:18 2020
00:11<zifnab>psh call them? what is this, 2020?
00:11<zifnab>fax machine time
00:12<zifnab>seriously i might fax them
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00:45<dwfreed>Happy Linode Billing Day
00:46<Peng_>Happier for some than for others
00:51<rsdehart>to wit: I just had to report my billing card stolen \o/
00:52*rsdehart makes a paypal deposit
01:16<linbot>New news from community: How do I update my Rescue Mode's version of e2fsck? <>
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01:25-!-Hobbyboy is "Andrew" on #lxde #/r/openttd #C #qemu #help #linode #debian #oftc #msys2 #moocows #YourBNC #perl #openttd
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02:36<linbot>New news from community: when i create my account , i will 20$ free credit but i have receive nothing in my account <>
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04:01<virtual>rsdehart: I had my card used for fraud just around billing time for many services I used. Linode were good about it.
04:01<rsdehart>virtual: this had nothing to do with linode. Someone stole my wallet
04:02<rsdehart>I locked everything down right away
04:02<virtual>ugh. the whole thing? and yeah, mine was just that it was used for fraud, and I had no other cards. Now I have a few more :P
04:02<virtual>just it happened at the end of the month, so linode couldn't take money off my normal card.
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04:44<Robert_Le>I have a account on Linode with remain on promotion balance is 84$ but my visa card still charged 20$ for renewing
04:47<Woet>Robert_Le: what does the billing page and invoice state?
04:48<Robert_Le>my invoice number is #15546993
04:51<Robert_Le>my invoice state's paid
04:52<Peng_>To be clear, this is a public community chat room.
04:52<Peng_>Don't post your credit card number or something.
04:53<Robert_Le>Ok thanks Peng
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04:57<linbot>New news from community: Have any plan to sale domain at Linode? <>
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06:00<@pwoods>Robert_Le: Have you opened a Support ticket for this yet? I can look into it for you.
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09:31<LouWestin>Yes happy Linode billing day
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09:40<rsdehart>more like linode killing day /me destroys his Linodes
09:43<LouWestin>I don’t run too much stuff right now so my bill is only $14 usd.
09:51<LouWestin>Speaking of killing me... Wife mentions yesterday about how having the password manager is a pain in the ass. She’s like who cares if they hack my grub hub account!? Me: Um because one system gets hacked and if you use the same password for everything... We all know the rest.
09:52<LouWestin>Might just set a pin on her phone PW manager instead so hopefully she uses it.
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09:53*LouWestin thinks that’s enough complaining about that
09:54*LouWestin starts making coffee
09:58<rsdehart>Mine's down from a high of $31 to $11
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10:06<LouWestin>I run two nanodes with backups
10:23<Zr40>good password managers are actually less a pain in the ass than typing a password each time
10:24<Zr40>I'd like to say, the best kind of security is the kind that adds convenience
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11:18<linbot>New news from community: How do I get my SSH access back? <>
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11:32<FluffyFoxeh>fuck YouTube Kids for disabling comments on some of my favourite videos
11:33<FluffyFoxeh>like the famous nom nom song
11:35<FluffyFoxeh>kids are ruining the internet
11:35<FluffyFoxeh>down with children
11:35<Zr40>should they get off your lawn?
11:36<FluffyFoxeh>and my internet
11:37<FluffyFoxeh>I changed the Wi-Fi password from abcdefgh to 12345678
11:37<FluffyFoxeh>but they're still getting on somehow
11:37*FluffyFoxeh flails cane
11:38<grawity>change it to 12345687, nobody will think of that
11:53<@mcintosh>weird all i'm seeing is **********
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12:09<FluffyFoxeh>!point mcintosh
12:09<linbot>FluffyFoxeh: Point given to mcintosh. (31) (Biggest fan: csnxs, total: 9)
12:56<csnxs>im sad they never released a hunter3
13:00<FluffyFoxeh>There are rumours that it's being worked on
13:00<FluffyFoxeh>But we may never know
13:12<@mcintosh>hunter3 confirmed
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15:04<LouWestin>Zr40: I turned on the facial recognition setting before I left for work. Statistically Apple says there’s only a 1 in a milllion chance of someone cracking it so the odds are good enough for me
15:09<LouWestin>Ok rsdehart agrees biometrics are ok
15:11<LouWestin>I use a pass phrase as a master password for my keepass Bitwarden stuff
15:12<Zr40>LouWestin: it's actually biometrics along with the weekly pin prompt by the device
15:12<Zr40>even if my biometrics are compatible with yours, I still have to know the passcode
15:14<rsdehart>...eventually :()
15:14<LouWestin>Ah... good idea
15:16<LouWestin>It’s probably way more secure than my wife using the same password for grub hub and everything else I haven’t changed over yet
15:19<LouWestin>That yahoo password of hers was exposed way too much lol.
15:22<LouWestin>Actually one of my coworkers grub hub or whatever was hacked and they charged a bunch of food on her tab.
15:22<nate>Wasn't apple the one that literally just had people bypassing facial biometrics by literally just using a photo of a person?
15:23<nate>LouWestin: Introduce them to keepass or something
15:23<Zr40>a mould, yes
15:23<Zr40>keepass is, like, the worst
15:23<nate>... how do you figure that?
15:24<rsdehart>nate: literally.
15:24<nate>Or you just don't like it because it doesn't come with native browser integration or something?
15:24<Zr40>everything about it is terrible. I wish the password management part was also terrible so that people would stop using it
15:24<rsdehart>well, for keepass to be the worst lastpass must be better
15:25<rsdehart>nate: not only does it not have native browser integration, it doesn't store your info in the cloud
15:25<rsdehart>*doesn't even
15:26*rsdehart gives up on nuance over irc
15:26<nate>Zr40: Wow, yes that's... descriptive, I'll make sure to immediately cease using it on that fantastic clear technical explanation of it's terribleness
15:26<Zr40>nate: I stopped using it decades ago, so the technical details are somewhat lost on me
15:27<Zr40>all I know is it certainly hasn't changed one bit, looking at how others are using it
15:27<nate>... keepass hasn't been around 'decades'
15:27<nate>perhaps you're thinking of something else?
15:28<nate>But sure, let's base suggestion and opinion based on experiences of something not touched to the point you have to use 'decades' as a sarcastic timeline :P
15:28<Zr40>I for one am not stopping you from using it if it pleases you
15:30<rsdehart>when someone points out the flaws in your argument, just be condescending. That covers all the things
15:30<nate>well it's mostly the concern of you potentially telling people not to use a decent software based on experiences you had ages ago :P
15:31<nate>I mean if you're gonna scare people away from something calling it "the worst" at least having a reason list ready would be nice :P
15:32<rsdehart>if it's "the worst", it should be really freaking easy to come up with a single reason
15:32<Zr40>sure. auto-typing credentials by broadcasting keystrokes into target windows without verification that the target window is the expected target, or indeed in the expected state
15:33<Zr40>that by itself is why browser integration is very important
15:33<nate>Eh? So... your complaint is that a user could potentially be tricked into using a fake keepass window...?
15:34<Zr40>no, that keepass could be tricked into sending passwords into something that's not the targeted login form
15:34<rsdehart>potentially be tricked into putting their cre
15:34<nate>Or I'm missing something cause keepass doesn't "auto type" anything into anything else. Generally what you do is double click a password in keepass and paste it into whatever
15:34<nate>At least natively speaking, I can't speak to plugins
15:34<rsdehart>no, you can use it as you describe, but it's able to auto fill windows
15:35<Zr40>or the targeted login form was changed to be part of the single page application and now you're autotyping credentials into a blog comment form
15:35<rsdehart>Zr40: but if you use it as nate describes, that obviates that whole thing
15:35<nate>I'm gonna have to double check my settings because I literally have no idea what you're talking about, I've never had anything from keepass attempt to do any sort of autofill at all, nor remember that even being an option
15:35<nate>one sec
15:37<nate>The closest I think I can find is the "Global auto-type hot key", bu
15:38<nate>The drag and drop I would imagine is otherwise the same as the double-click paste, which if you're dumb enough to do "tricked into", using a password manager is probably the least of your concerns.
15:38<nate>That first line though as far as I can tell is not a thing by default
15:39<nate>The global auto-type hotkey appears to be set, but again I feel like if someone tricks you into doing LCTRL+LALT+A (which appears to be the default combination) into an input field and submitting it, using a password manager again is the least of your competency concerns :P
15:39<Zr40>yes, not shooting the footgun is a valid strategy
15:40<nate>User capacity is straight up the 1st wall of any security defense
15:40<Zr40>exactly why that should not be relied upon as the only defense
15:40<nate>The fact is your gripe of the software is largely inapplicable because 1) It's not even on by default, 2) It requires the user to be stupid, 3) Every other password manager I've seen otherwise has this same functionality optional either by opt-in or extension
15:41<nate>Who ever said the only defense?
15:41<nate>My offer of introduction to "keepass or something" was primarily to help them not re-use passwords
15:41<Zr40>if I accidentally press LCTRL+LALT+A, perhaps because some other useful software uses LCTRL+LALT+S, I don't want to have keepass send whatever credentials I had last selected into IRC
15:42<nate>So then disable the hotkey at minimum. At most teach yourself competency to not hit the enter key when you see your login pasted
15:42<nate>it's not forcing the hotkey to exist, you can remove it entirely
15:43<nate>that's assuming on new installs it's not already as well, my database file is a bit on the older side :P
15:43<Zr40>I'm leaving this argument. As I said, I'm not stopping you from using it if it pleases you
15:45<nate>lol, at least my concerns about certain password managers have valid points that aren't really user-addressable
15:46<nate>ie; lastpass
15:46<nate>Always buggers me when I have to use it with certain clients
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17:20<zemon>what heppen here?
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17:25*millisa is heppening
17:34<virtual>now I've got an NZ accent repeating "What's heppening" in my head.
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20:07<Apitia>How long my account will be activated?
20:08<millisa>They usually get to them pretty quickly. If they need more info, they'll email.
20:09<Apitia>Ok, I will move to other provider. I can not wait.
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20:12<LouWestin>he went quick
20:13<virtual>he said he can't wait.
20:14<LouWestin>mission critical on a Sunday or Monday depending on where you're at in the world
20:14<virtual>what if the other provider takes longer than linode, will he be back?
20:14<virtual>damn, the suspense is going to kill me.
20:14<LouWestin>Unless they both ask for more information, then he'll probably be looking at a third provider
20:15<virtual>LouWestin: what a plot twist, 3rd provider!
20:15<virtual>I, uh, may not be taking anything too seriously, ever.
20:16<LouWestin>The biggest question is, who is he looking to sign up with?
20:21<virtual>I'm being lazy, and asking what is hopefully a very quick answer question - how do I see two different screens on tmux when ssh'ing to a machine twice and doing 'tmux attach'? I don't want both sessions to show the same terminal...
20:22<millisa>tmux -S /yoursessionfile or tmux -S /yoursession attach ?
20:22<millisa>er, socketfile
20:22<LouWestin>possibly this page has the answer.
20:22<dwfreed>or you do want to be attached to the same session, but look at different windows in the session?
20:23<virtual>what dwfreed said
20:23<dwfreed>LouWestin: that is split panes
20:23<virtual>I can to it easy in screen - but I switched to tmux a while ago.
20:23<virtual>screen -R -d equivalent - now I can search on that, my brain woke up :P
20:24<LouWestin>dwfreed is the split planes basically showing the samw screen, but split up? Long day
20:24<virtual>I mean -x
20:24<virtual>not -d
20:25<virtual>basically, imagine I have two xterms, both ssh'd to one host, one tmux 'session', but I want one xterm to show e.g. a file listing, while the other one shows me an editor.
20:25<dwfreed> this might be it
20:26<millisa>ctrl-b then c will create a windows. ctrl-b and l, n, or p to goto last, next, previous. or ctrl-b and the window num
20:26<LouWestin>dwfreed and virtual, ok two diffrent sessions, but split screens
20:27<millisa>(dont know screen well enough to know if that's equivalent or not)
20:27<virtual>millisa: if I do ctrl-b n, it moves to that window in all of my tmux sessions that are attached :(
20:27<virtual>I mean, I could run two tmux sessions/config, whatever.
20:28<virtual>looks like - from the answer dwfreed found, it's actually not possible - the answer below, with 0 upvotes.
20:28<dwfreed>virtual: the answer I shared is what you want, I think
20:28<dwfreed>while yes you're making separate sessions, they all share the same windows
20:28<virtual>oh god, I didn't read it close enough, trying now!
20:29<dwfreed>the -t 0 links the new session to the existing one, assuming the existing session is named 0
20:29<virtual>That worked perfectly :-D
20:29<virtual>!point dwfreed
20:29<linbot>virtual: Point given to dwfreed. (100) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 21)
20:29<millisa>!point dwfreed
20:29<linbot>millisa: Point given to dwfreed. (101) (Biggest fan: mcintosh, total: 21)
20:29<virtual>glad I asked in here now. :)
20:29<dwfreed>woo, broke 100
20:30<linbot>dwfreed: 1. millisa (129) 2. dwfreed (101) 3. eugene (97) 4. peng (48) 5. linbot (41)
20:30<virtual>not long to go ;)
20:30<virtual>I see peng is competing with the bot
20:30<LouWestin>!point linbot
20:30<linbot>LouWestin: Point given to linbot. (1337)
20:31<virtual>mean :-D
20:32<millisa>Peng's got another 26 on Peng_
20:32<LouWestin>There's two peng's
20:32<millisa>and four lights
20:33<virtual>wait, how did linbot get 1337, or is that a hack?
20:33<dwfreed>!help point
20:33<linbot>dwfreed: (point <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "web title$nick/$1/".
20:33<millisa>he's now got 1337 and 42. very magical.
20:33<LouWestin>Good question, I wanted to bump the bot up to 42 since that number is the meaning of life
20:34<dwfreed>it will always say linbot has 1337 points when you give it points
20:34<dwfreed>but top5 will show the real points
20:34<virtual>it's the answer to the question of the meaning of life
20:34<virtual>I love how that difference makes it important :P
20:35<LouWestin>Hitch Hikers guide should be required reading in school.
20:36<virtual>I agree - we don't need to stinkin' romeo and juliet
20:37<LouWestin>In middle school, 8th grade it's been Hunger Games
20:38<virtual>wow. I still haven't read that.
20:38<LouWestin>I started on it, but lost interest.
20:38<virtual>My wife wants me to, but I'm being a bit lazy. I guess schools are also probably reading Harry Potter too?
20:39<virtual>One of my kids is in school, just turned 6. So many of the kids have watched the harry potter movies already, along with marvel superhero ones (spiderman, ironman), etc. weirds me out a bit.
20:40<LouWestin>I know our's has Potter in the library and the Libarian is a big fan of the potter series
20:40<millisa>it is frequently on the ALA's banned book list
20:40<virtual>I'm still generally only letting my kids watch 'General/Universal/ films, occasoinally PG ones.
20:41<linbot>New news from community: Hello everyone, I think I just changed the IP of VPS, how should I operate? <>
20:41<LouWestin>wife and kids got big into the Avengers series. I lost interest in it after watching a couple
20:41<virtual>if it was banned because it was weirdly written, fine, OK.
20:41<virtual>I got a bit tired of harry potter, but read all the books. the teenage angst got old.
20:41<millisa>well, challenged list I think is what they call it now.
20:42<millisa>it was the #2 challenged book in 03. doesn't make the top 10 anymore but still comes up in the lists.
20:42*LouWestin lets his kids watch Fairytail and the 7 deadly sins anime *gasp!*
20:42<virtual>wait, how old are your kids? re: 2nd one - I know. Fairytail, I do not :)
20:42<LouWestin>8 and 14 now
20:43<virtual>14 seems fine :) 8 - I dunno. My eldest is 6.
20:43<LouWestin>so 7 and 13 they were watching it.
20:43<virtual>hahaha, no way
20:43<virtual>that does seem a little ... wrong ;)
20:43<LouWestin>Now they're anime nerds and it's all my fault
20:44<virtual>Nothing wrong with being an anime nerd!
20:44<virtual>I am not one, but I'm happy for people to say 'watch this!'.
20:44<LouWestin>I'm joking of course. I'm sure my fellow coworkers would horified though
20:45<virtual>Now I'm not sure what you're joking about...
20:47<LouWestin>oh, about being my fault in turning my kids into anime nerds. I should refrase it
20:47<LouWestin>they're anime nerds and it is my fault, but that's ok
20:47<virtual>they've definitely watched the shows you mentioned though? :)
20:48<LouWestin>The older one has been keeping tabs on when the sin's third/fourth season is coming to netflix
20:49<virtual>:) I started it, but never finished - just kinda forgot about it. To be fair, I kinda stopped watching all tv
20:49<LouWestin>Basically we binged watched the Sin's series everyday from beinging to end when it came out last year
20:51<virtual>damn, almost the end of my lunch break, and have I played a game? No, I have not
21:31<linbot>New news from community: Last 24 hours public outbound 1941.75 Mibit/s? Deduct $3773.13 from me. What happened? <>
21:33<virtual>linode does warnings when you get close, right?
21:34<dwfreed>I mean, if they did 2 Gbps, the warning's going to come a bit late
21:35<Toba>so if we get ddos we get a huge bill? cool
21:35<Toba>ok, good
21:35<Toba>that's what I wanted to hear
21:35<dwfreed>most likely, he was doing the ddos
21:35<dwfreed>inbound is free, outbound is not
21:36<Toba>so if someone repeatedly downloads a large file from us from a bunch of owned bot net hosts, we pay a huge bill?
21:36<dwfreed>yes, that would be the case
21:36<Toba>I guess I will hope nobody does that to me
21:36<dwfreed>but this is what monitoring is for, and as noted, Linode will email you when you're approaching your transfer allotment by default
21:59<virtual>monitoring, throttling, fail2ban etc :)
21:59<virtual>I guess fail2ban is just a very heavy throttle.
22:12<Woet>and this is why people who don't know how to manage servers shouldn't buy unmanaged servers
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22:36<chesty>linode encourages people who don't know how to manage servers to buy unmanaged servers.
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22:44<virtual>it does?
22:49<dwfreed>to an extent, yes
22:50<dwfreed>one-click apps and the old Linode-maintained stackscripts (which is really what one-click apps are) are basically loaded footguns
22:50<virtual>Is this where I quietly congratulate myself by saying I never realised this?
22:50<virtual>hmm. I guess - but you kinda have to know this even exists. I'm trying to work out how someone who doesn't know about virtual servers etc finds out about linode.
22:51<dwfreed>googling web hosting
22:51<virtual>I can't imagine linode is top for that kind of thing, and I'm way too lazy to check :P
22:51<Woet>and Linode is very eager to help those who are clearly looking for shared hosting (or a managed VPS)
22:52<Woet>people should start out with a local Linux VM if they're interested in learning
22:52<Woet>behind NAT
22:52<Woet>not a multi-gigabit VPS accessible to the entire internet
22:52<virtual>Woet: I agree with that, but again, that's a level of knowledge that puts someone above the basics, IMO.
22:54<Woet>like this:
23:11<virtual>oh my
23:11<virtual>lol @ "
23:11<virtual>SO HOW DO YOU SOLVE IT GEEEEEZ!!!!
23:11<virtual>SO HOW DO YOU SOLVE IT GEEEEEZ!!!!
23:11<virtual>stupid latency.
23:12<virtual>and the follow up response of "there is nothing to solve"
23:12<Peng_>virtual: Sometimes people join #linode without even knowing what Linode is
23:12<virtual>yeah, I've been here for some of those. :)
23:12<virtual>I used to be a lot more active here, when I took a couple of years off work :P
23:14<chesty>there are also 100s of linode guides that take people from 0 to having a running (eg) web server. I think being able to monitor and control outgoing traffic is quite an advance topic. I don't even know if there's a linode guide for it. I shall check now
23:16<virtual>To be honest, I'm not sure how one would do it 'in general' monitoring, not /too/ difficult, but 'control'? that's a fun subject.
23:16<virtual>damn the missing full stop after 'in general'.
23:18<chesty>there you go virtual, according to Woet you shouldn't buy an unmanaged linode.
23:20<Woet>chesty: the main thing is securing your VM.
23:21<virtual>what would a true hippy do, re: security
23:21<chesty>fair enough, if you have, say, a 50MB file on your web server, it wouldn't take long for someone to use up all your transfer quoter
23:22<chesty>btw, I can't find any guides on rate limit, egress, or controlling costs
23:23<chesty>there's probably some guides there, I can't find them though
23:25<chesty>My maths is likely wrong, but someone downloading a 50MB file 5000 times would use up all your quota
23:28<chesty>I used the wrong figure, it's was more than 5000
23:30<dwfreed>yeah, a lot more
23:30<Peng_>Linode 64 - $19.95/month
23:30<Peng_>64M RAM, 1GB disk, 25GB xfer
23:30<dwfreed>20,000 for 1 TB transfer
23:44<virtual>64M RAM :-D
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 02 00:00:19 2020