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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-11-09

07:10--> Youare now talking on #mythtv
07:10-!-Topic for #mythtv is -- The Cheap(est), High-Quality Alternative
07:10-!-Topic for #mythtv set by Soopaman at Thu Nov 7 15:43:57
07:56-!-s3fudi [] has joined #mythtv
08:21<s3fudi>guys.. what do you think is a better card.. pixelview playtv pro, pinnacle studio pctv or the hauppage wintv go pci ?
08:21<s3fudi>or does it depend solely on the chip (all use bt878)?
09:21-!-vektor [] has quit ["ugh"]
10:48<Chutt>wow, dumb people on the mailing list
11:30-!-rcaskey [] has joined #mythtv
11:32<mdz_>Chutt: want to test some debs?
11:33-!-Universe [] has joined #mythtv
11:34<mdz_>Chutt: re: mailing list, that's what you get for becoming popular :-P
11:35-!-vektor [] has joined #mythtv
11:36<Chutt>sure, i'll test some debs
11:36<rcaskey>woot :)
11:36<Chutt>yet another clueless SACD FUD article on /.
11:36<Chutt>the guy that wants volume controls just wants me to add system() calls to amixer.
11:37<vektor>cute :/
11:37<mdz_>heh, I think a full 3/5 of that guy's questions are either answered in the FAQ or the install docs
11:37<Chutt>all of them are
11:37<Chutt>and i'm not even going to bother with the guy that upgraded his system and now mythtv locks up
11:37<mdz_>even the twig module not installing?
11:37<Chutt>yeah, that's on the website faq
11:38<mdz_>Chutt: no, that guy is fine, he is going to use gdb
11:38<mdz_>Chutt: while his system is hung
11:38<Chutt>i also just got an email asking how to run the setup program
11:38<mdz_>oh, is that a "you didn't install the prerequisites"?
11:38<Chutt>i don't know
11:38<Universe>yeah... Chutt... how to dyou run it...
11:38<Chutt>he said 'i assume from this that i'm supposed to run'
11:39<mdz_>Chutt: the deb displays a note which includes a complete command line for running setup, suitable for cut-and-paste :-)
11:39<mdz_>you want source, binary or diff?
11:41<mdz_>WARNING: anyone else who happens to download that deb, you are doing so at your own risk
11:41<mdz_>to be honest, I have not even tested it on a machine with a capture card yet :-P
11:42<rcaskey>Chutt: I finally got Myth working with a video in card
11:42<rcaskey>great work
11:42<rcaskey>iv still got some v4l problem because all my video is miscolored
11:42<mdz_>mythepg runs though
11:43<Chutt>i need the xmltv debs
11:43<Chutt>and the lame deb
11:43<mdz_>oh, I thought I had sent you those urls already
11:43<mdz_>xmltv is at
11:43<mdz_>deb unstable main
11:43<mdz_>liblame is at
11:43<mdz_>deb unstable main
11:43<Chutt>lemme remove xmltv and lame and all that
11:44<rcaskey>Chutt: are you gonna submit these to unnstable?
11:45<rcaskey>oh well, it will make life on my part much easier :)
11:47<mdz_>Chutt: you run your mysql database locally, right?
11:47<mdz_>mysql's privileges system is so fucked
11:49<rcaskey>oh good grief, no wonder my color was messed up
11:49<mdz_>I'll need to add a second grant to make that work
11:49<rcaskey>was using xawtv to adjust color and its widgets are just rejected
11:49<mdz_>it'll need to grant to user@localhost as well as user@'%'
11:49<mdz_>because obviously the wildcard doesn't match localhost
11:50<Chutt>know offhand how i delete an entire db?
11:50<mdz_>mysqladmin drop
11:51<mdz_>or mysqladmin -ublah -pblah drop
11:52<Chutt>'couldn't open db'
11:53<mdz_>download the latest deb from the same directory
11:53-!-rykr [] has joined #mythtv
11:53<mdz_>I added a second grant
11:54<mdz_>never mind, doesn't help
11:54<mdz_>this is the worst part of mysql
11:54<Chutt>the grant line in mc.sql works.
11:55<mdz_>that's basically what the new one does
11:55<Chutt>and i don't see a second grant line in the output of it
11:55<mdz_>hmm, you're right
11:56<mdz_>wait, did you download -2 or -3?
11:56<mdz_>get -3
11:57<mdz_>mythtv-setup doesn't get very far without a capture card :-(
11:58<mdz_>dude you should fix mythtv so it works without a capture card that would r00lz
11:58<Chutt>rykr, nice email
11:59<rykr>Chutt - sure
11:59<Chutt>do you want me to paste the question from the FAQ about the audio?
12:00<Chutt>since you can't seem to read it
12:00<mdz_>whoa, you can actually control this tuner box with the serial port
12:00<mdz_>contrary to all of the documentation
12:01<mdz_>at least turn it on and off
12:01<mdz_>hmm, I would have fiddled with that before buying the IR blaster if I'd known
12:02<mdz_>might take a long time to brute-force all of the codes, though
12:02<rykr>Chutt - sure
12:02<rcaskey>what might cause myth to be channel off in its listings? like it shows that channel 43 is commedy central, but its really channel 44
12:02<rykr>Chutt- I was reading the FAQ on the website
12:03<Chutt>rcaskey, use canada-cable instead of us-cable
12:03<vektor>nobody in canada uses canada-cable as far as i can tell
12:03<vektor>i don't think it's valid
12:03<Chutt>vektor, tons of people do
12:03<Chutt>vektor, i get emails from people complaining about their channels being 1 off all the time
12:03<vektor>well, considering that i'm in canada and doug is in canada and it does not match our systems...
12:04<vektor>for cable?? really??
12:04<vektor>is it just the west coast maybe??
12:04<Chutt>some guy in the us has to use it, too
12:04<vektor>how do televisions know then?
12:04<vektor>i mean, i never tell my TV i'm in canada vs us
12:04<Chutt>i dunno =)
12:04<vektor>it makes no sense.
12:05<Chutt>rykr, so you see that question in the distribution FAQ now?
12:06<rykr>yes, just sent you an email. I assumed you would have the latest faq linked to the website
12:06<Chutt>i didn't make the FAQ on the website
12:06<Chutt>oh, also
12:06<Chutt>you need to add /usr/local/lib to /etc/
12:07<Chutt>if you want libraries in there to be found
12:07<Chutt>most newbies don't do that
12:07<vektor>Chutt: I'm going to do a loader for the DScaler channels file.
12:07<vektor>Chutt: I think their frequency tables make more sense.
12:07<Chutt>that's been answered twice on the mailing list in the past week, as well
12:07<rykr>Chutt - thanks for the guidance
12:08<Chutt>also, there's absolutely no way that mysql.txt didn't get installed if the other settings files didn't get installed
12:08<rykr>settings.txt was in /usr/local/share/mythtv I think
12:08<rykr>mysql.txt was not
12:08<Chutt>mdz, it skipped the connecting channel source to channel input step
12:08<Chutt>was theme.txt?
12:09<rykr>mysql.txt was only found in my unzip folder from the distribution. I did a system wide locate for it when setup wouldn't run
12:09<Chutt>theme.txt and mysql.txt get installed from the exact same line
12:09<mdz_>Chutt: what did? setup?
12:09<Chutt>mdz, yes
12:09<mdz_>Chutt: I didn't modify setup one whit
12:09<Chutt>mdz, the mythtv user probably doesn't have permissions on the video dev files
12:09<rykr>well I guess you shouldn't take the word of a newbie :-)
12:10<mdz_>I thought I had added it to the video group
12:10<Chutt>my video devs aren't owned by the video group
12:10<mdz_>they ought to be
12:10<Chutt>since debian doesn't create them, ever
12:11<mdz_>I use devfs
12:11<mdz_>and devfsd makes them group video
12:11<Chutt>i don't use devfs =)
12:12<rykr>do you know if anyone is using Hauppauge WinTV-D or the Creative Labs Digital VCR with MythTV?
12:12<Chutt>linux drivers for those cards don't exist
12:12<Chutt>so it'd be kind of difficult.
12:12<mdz_>I'll add a call to MAKEDEV then
12:12<mdz_>MAKEDEV also creates them with the correct permissions
12:13<Chutt>mdz, that'll work
12:14<rcaskey>Chutt, are you still using that TV Wonder VE?
12:14<Chutt>and a hauppauge wintv-radio
12:15<rcaskey>ahh, nm, I was gonna see what you had for your brightness settings and the like
12:15<Chutt>i use the hauppauge card as the main one, too
12:15<Chutt>cleaner picture, and it does stereo
12:16<mdz_>I dunno if MAKEDEV will fix the permissions on existing devices, though
12:16<Chutt>i dunno what to do 'bout that
12:16<mdz_>I don't have any non-devfs systems to test on :-P
12:16<mdz_>anyway the latest package is uploaded now
12:17<rcaskey>Chutt: whats the apt source?
12:17<Chutt>don't use them yet
12:17<Chutt>as mdz said.
12:17<Chutt>mdz, still -3?
12:17<mdz_>there will not be an apt source until they are suitable for public consumption
12:17<mdz_>Chutt: yep
12:18<mdz_>and the xmltv stuff is in unstable
12:18<Chutt>it is?
12:18<mdz_>no, there will not be an apt sourc efor mythtv until it is
12:18<Chutt>oh, heh
12:18<mdz_> should be ready to upload
12:18<rcaskey>so is it currently b0rk?
12:18<-- rykr( has left #mythtv
12:19<Chutt>mdz, still didn't work
12:19<Chutt>that's weird
12:19<mdz_>which part?
12:19<mdz_>the setup thing?
12:19<Chutt>same part
12:20<Chutt>something reset permissions on the /dev/video symlink
12:20<mdz_>nice, I guess makedev does it
12:21<Chutt>still nothing
12:21-!-Antw73 [] has joined #mythtv
12:21<mdz_>yep, it does an unconditional chown/chmod
12:21<Chutt>i need to go rake the yard, though
12:21<Antw73>evening all
12:21<mdz_>so, setup puts the card config in the database, then pulls it out to do the associations
12:21<mdz_>it looks like
12:21<Chutt>and it also probes the card
12:21<mdz_>and doesn't report any errors :-)
12:22<mdz_>you can always run it as root, I suppose
12:22<mdz_>but I'd like to fix it
12:22<mdz_>I'll be putting it on my test box as soon as it is not in use
12:22<Antw73>Chutt: got more of a handle on the different file formats and codecs now, started coding a MythTV->VideoCD module a couple of hours ago
12:23<mdz_>Antw73: for playing VCDs or making them?
12:23<Antw73>Making them from MythTV files
12:24<Antw73>As per Chutts preference its an external module, I am using some of the classes from Myth however
12:24<rcaskey>oh thats sweet, will it be able to record directly or have to burn an already recorded program?
12:24<mdz_>I ran setup as the user that I run mythtv as
12:24<mdz_>and it certainly worked
12:24<mdz_>I wonder what the problem is
12:25<Antw73>Burn, pre-recorded shows only. Takes a while to convert from Myth format to VCD format too
12:25<Antw73>Anyone else been playing with the nvtv program?
12:27<Antw73>ok, anyone else using Tv out on an Nvidia card? =)
12:28<Chutt>ant, i need to sit down with nvtv some day and get it working on my card properly
12:28<Chutt>and, lemme know how that vcd converter comes out =)
12:28<Antw73>: I've got it working well, just wondering if anyone has done integration with MythTV so I don't have to do it manual =)
12:29<Chutt>not that i know of
12:29<mdz_>why would it need to be integrated with mythtv?
12:29<mdz_>wouldn't you just run it at boot or something?
12:29<Antw73>depends if MythTV is all the machine does, I'm using mine as a MAME console too, and that needs different settings in nvtv
12:30<Antw73>: its not a big prob, just running a script before starting the different things, but automatics are allways nice so I can avoid the keyboard completly
12:31<Chutt>have you tried xmame with the xv support patch?
12:31<Antw73>no way today of running a script before starting a myth app?
12:31<Antw73>yup, the XV scaling is ok, but doesn't seem to work so well on my low power system
12:32<Antw73>: running in DGA mode and setting the TV out via nvtv
12:33<Antw73>At some point I'm going to have to spring for a new CPU, but I'd rather wait until after xmas
12:36<Antw73>Other than minor stuff like that, my media machine is really starting to shape up =)
12:37<Antw73>Just VCD handling, and the big wooden box for the machine to finish things off and I'll be a happy puppy
12:37<Chutt>that rykr guy's email to me was funny
12:37<Antw73>On the mailing list?
12:37<Chutt>'I a interested in helping make MythTV a great product but if this is how you greet new folks, I'm not sure.'
12:37<Chutt>no, privately to me in response to his email on the mailing list =)
12:38<Universe>sounds like a kind that can't spell
12:38<Universe>err kid
12:39<Chutt>ah well
12:39<Chutt>now i really need to go move leaves around with a rake
12:39<Chutt>no fun :(
12:39<Antw73>oh well, enjoy the outside anyways =)
12:40<Universe>outside? isn't that dangerous?
12:40<Universe>have fun Chutt
12:40<Antw73>bleh =) fresh air never killed anyone
12:46<rcaskey>hey Chutt, does MythTV support IRC yet?
12:46<vektor>rcaskey: wrong way to ask
12:46<Antw73>IRC? why would a TV app support IRC? =)
12:46<vektor>rcaskey: everyone thinks you mean internet relay chat
12:47<vektor>rcaskey: you should ask "does MythTV support fine tuning of channels"
12:47<rcaskey>(err fine tuning of chanels)
12:47<Antw73>Ahhhh, then yes it does I thought, same way xawtv does
12:47<Antw73>you might need to set it manually in the database but I think MythTV reads the data from there
12:47<-- Universehas quit ()
12:48<Antw73>Let me look in the code, one sec to verify
12:54<rcaskey>because im on IRC cable im getting the wrong channel listings and colors
12:56<Antw73>Yes it supports finetuning if the finetune value is set in the DB
12:56<rcaskey>ahh oky
12:57<Antw73>So you should be able to check the finetune value in xawtv and use that value in the mythconverg.channels table
12:58<Antw73>can't offhand see any UI way of setting the finetune in MythTV, but i may be blind, check with Chutt when he gets back from the garden on that, but directly hacking the DB should do it =)
12:58<rcaskey>hmm, it has to be an int value
12:58<Antw73>yes, but the finetune in xawtv is also just an int, those fines are VERY fine I think
12:59<Antw73>say in thousands of the frquency setting or somewhere abouts that
13:00<rcaskey>Antw73: so its absolute and not relative?
13:00<Antw73>no, its relative to the current channel, either pos or neg
13:01<Antw73>vektor: thanks for the translation btw
13:01<rcaskey>so 1250 is probably what I need then
13:02<Antw73>that much? ouch
13:03<Antw73>isn't that enough to push up a channel or two?
13:03<rcaskey>Antw73: err whats 1.25 mhz up?
13:04<Antw73>Not sure that you can directly translate the finetune like that, you might need to play about a bit in xawtv to test if it doesn't work for you
13:04<rcaskey>what are the fine tune buttons in xawtv? iv got the mhz rating from tvtime
13:04<Antw73>you might be better off finding the correct frequncy table and mailing it to the mythtv list and getting it added
13:05<rcaskey>a quick google didn't turn it up
13:05<Antw73>in xawtv I think finetune is left and right arrows
13:05<Antw73>not sure you'll get that to tune so much up or down tho
13:06<rcaskey>diz: they say i should be able to set it in the database
13:06<vektor>diz isn't on this channel
13:06<vektor>and he just discovered that the finetune doesn't seem to be used in mythtv
13:06<vektor>but you can recompile to set it
13:07<vektor>at least that's his hypothesis
13:08<Antw73>vektor: looks used to me, if its set in the DB. Is he using 0.6 or CVS?
13:09<rcaskey>ahh, is CVS in a runnable state?
13:09<vektor>i have no idea and i have no business repeating rumors from irc :)
13:09<Antw73>vektor: heh
13:09<Antw73>rcaskey: was a few days ago when I took out a copy anyways
13:11<rcaskey>doh, stupid cat
13:12<Antw73>rcaskey: actually I think Chutt is generally pretty good about not commiting broken code to CVS, at least not for too long
13:14<mdz_>use of mythtv CVS is encouraged only if you are willing to debug problems rather than just complaining about them
13:15<mdz_>s/willing to/& (and capable of)/
13:15<Antw73>mdz_: true true
13:16<Antw73>but personally I'd rather people bang on new code than start uncomenting and hacking older versions to enable newer (possibly incomplete) functions....
13:22<Antw73>grrrr, program table isn't updating again. Before I start rooting about looking for the cause, anyone heard of this before?
13:31-!-rykr [] has joined #mythtv
13:33<Chutt>rcaskey, current CVS will become 0.7 tonight, so it's stable :p
13:34<Chutt>and 0.6 has the finetuning stuff in it, it just needs to be set in the database
13:35<Antw73>Chutt: thanks for the clear up =) leaves not bugged you too much we hope =)
13:36<Chutt>just 7 30 gallon bags full
13:36<Antw73>Chutt: the question about VCR and badly syncing audio sounds suspiciously like the problem we were banging on a few weeks ago
13:36<Chutt>it very well could be
13:36<Antw73>how many bags =) ick
13:36<Chutt>i'll ask him to upgrade once i put out 0.7
13:37<Antw73>k, I won't answer it then
13:38<Antw73>before I get complicated, the program tables are supposed to update themselves or do I have to set that up somewhere?
13:39<Chutt>which program tables?
13:39<Chutt>you mean the filldatabase stuff?
13:39<Antw73>well, yes, but after initial filling
13:39<Chutt>the best thing to do with that is put it in a crontab somewhere
13:40<Chutt>however often you want to update things =)
13:40<Antw73>ok, so its not in mythfrontend then
13:40<-- rykr( has left #mythtv
13:40<Antw73>right then, wondered why I couldn't find it =)
13:40<Chutt>i keep meaning to have the scheduler fork off a process to do that
13:40<Chutt>but the frequency of the updates is going to vary based on which grabber you're using
13:40<Chutt>how many days each gets, etc
13:40<Antw73>I may have to send you a minor patch for running updates on tv_grab_sn then
13:41<rcaskey>hey chutt, frequency fine tuning works in cvs but not in .6 right?
13:41<Chutt>rcaskey, i'm pretty sure it works in 0.6
13:41<Chutt>could be wrong, though =)
13:41<rcaskey>oky, well I just upgraded to cvs so we will see shortly :)
13:42<rcaskey>and for a 1.25 mhz adjust I need to put in a value of 1250?
13:42<Antw73>Chutt: when are you planning on going out with 0.7? Do I have time to fix the tv_grab_sn before?
13:42<Chutt>antw73, ah, sometime this evening. it's around 2 pm here now
13:43<mdz_>Chutt: so about this setup problem...
13:44<Chutt>mdz, aye?
13:44<mdz_>Chutt: I'm drawing a blank. any guesses where it's going wrong?
13:44<mdz_>Chutt: it is successfully probing the card, yes? it looks like it would spit out an error if not
13:45<mdz_>and then it calls selectsource for each input
13:45<mdz_>perhaps it isn't finding the cards in the db?
13:45<Chutt>the only way i see that it wouldn't spit out an error message
13:45<Chutt>is if the cards weren't in the database
13:45<mdz_>are they?
13:45<Chutt>where exactly do you create the database tables? =)
13:46<Chutt>since, well, none of them are in there
13:46<mdz_>setup doesn't?
13:46<Chutt>the mysql < mc.sql does
13:46<mdz_>ok, that's easy enough then
13:46<Chutt>or whatever
13:46<mdz_>but setup seems like a logical place to do that
13:46<Chutt>but i'll leave that for when i'm not changing stuff around all the time
13:47<Chutt>i'd rather not have big multi-version database upgrade junk in there
13:50<rcaskey>hey Chutt, how many ticks in Myth are equivalent to a channel?
13:50<Chutt>it's the exact same as in xawtv
13:51<Chutt>the frequency setting code and finetuning amounts and tables are all identical
13:51<rcaskey>Chutt: I gotta figure out how to do fine tuning in xawtv, i got the mhz listing in myth right
13:51<rcaskey>I can bump it up 6 and i get the right picture but im an entire channel off
13:51<Chutt>are you absolutely sure you're using the right frequency table?
13:52<rcaskey>vektor: do you know a site or doc that has info about how to fine tune with xawtv, i cant find it on the net
13:53<rcaskey>Chutt: certain
13:53<rcaskey>im on standard NTSC but its IRC
13:53<vektor>Chutt: i've seen other people with this before, and diz (who wrote frequencies.*) explained it to me.
13:54<vektor>Chutt: diz wasn't 'finished' frequencies.[h,c] when they were used by everyone.
13:54<vektor>Chutt: There's a type of cable called IRC for incrementally related carrier.
13:54<vektor>Chutt: Anyway to support it you have to add 1.25MHz to all the channel numbers.
13:55<vektor>rcaskey: There's a fine tune option in the .xawtvrc file. See man xawtvrc I think.
13:55<vektor>Chutt: Also, there's a better version of frequencies.c in diz's app 'tvset'. You should take a look at it. Also, he'd appreciate an email to know that you're using his code.
13:55<vektor>Chutt: tvset is at
13:56<vektor>Chutt: diz hangs out on #livid on this network.
13:56<rcaskey>vektor: 6 ticks makes it look alright but its entire channel # off
13:56<rcaskey>so im not really sure even what to put in xawrc
13:57<rcaskey>is there anywhere that says what the tick means in terms of mhz?
13:57<vektor>Well I don't know either, I didn't write xawtv
13:57<vektor>No I have no idea.
13:59<Chutt>the ntsc_cable table in there looks identical to every IRC list that i see online
14:02<vektor>well, maybe his theory is wrong then.
14:02<vektor>i have no clue.
14:02-!-diz [] has joined #mythtv
14:03<vektor>diz, meet chutt. chutt, meet diz.
14:03<diz>chutt: the original channels.h file is at in tvset
14:04<diz>you might like it a lot better than the way it's been contorted by gerd
14:05<diz>at any rate there are 4 standard variations on NTSC cable tv frequencies
14:05<diz>these are mostly fixed offsets, like 1.25MHz for NTSC IRC CATV
14:06<Antw73>diz: yer untarred link is broken
14:06<diz>HRC and IRC are the most common
14:06<diz>yes it is broken.
14:06<diz>it's been broken since 1998
14:06<Antw73>heh, nm then
14:07<Chutt>heh, actually, i like gerd's format better
14:07<Chutt>it's a lot more readable
14:07<diz>if you say so.
14:08<diz>but then agian you like C++ and i despise it
14:09<Chutt>err, whatever
14:09<diz>vektor: i forgot with HRC and IRC, there are special cases for channels 5 and 6
14:10<vektor>diz: ok
14:10<mdz_>god I hate the shell
14:20<Chutt>rcaskey, anyway, by what offset you said worked, i'm 100% sure things will work if you set canada-cable as the FreqTab setting in settings.txt
14:20<Chutt>and don't use any finetuning offset
14:20<Chutt>since the channel numbers are off by one and just about exactly that finetuning amount
14:21<diz>chutt: you're blindly using my tuning code...
14:21<Chutt>of course i am
14:21<diz>the channels are off by 5 which is NOT 5MHz
14:21<diz>it's 1.25MHz
14:21<Chutt>he said a modification of 6/16ths of a Mhz made things look right
14:21<Antw73>Chutt: have a couple of small filldata.cpp patches to send to you once I get home, you can choose to apply em or not, but they make things easier for us poor swedes =)
14:22<Chutt>but then the channel numbers were 1 off of what they should be
14:22<diz>chutt: he tells me that 1.25MHz is the proper correction (it looked good)
14:22<Chutt>he told _me_ that a finetuning of '6' looked right.
14:23<Chutt>[13:57] <rcaskey> vektor: 6 ticks makes it look alright but its entire channel # off
14:23<Chutt>which is 6/16ths of a Mhz
14:24<rcaskey>mmm through a process of trial and error I found the magic # is 106 :)
14:24<diz>so in #livid we determined that he did a finetune by 7.25MHz
14:24<diz>and that's why he was off a channel
14:25<Chutt>rcaskey, congrats, you just proved me right :p
14:25<Chutt>rcaskey, that's the difference between us-cable and canada-cable :p
14:26<mdz_>Chutt: new deb uploading now
14:26<diz>there's no such thing as "canada cable"
14:26<rcaskey>ok, glad to be of service for once ;P
14:26<mdz_>Chutt: should do the schema automagically
14:26<vektor>diz: thank you! :)
14:26<Chutt>diz, i honestly don't care if there's no such thing as it
14:26<Chutt>it works
14:26<vektor>there is clearly some form of tuner where things are off-by-one though.
14:26<diz>well calling something "canada cable" is just wrong
14:26<rcaskey>vektor: cable here is wier
14:26<rcaskey>err wierd
14:26<Chutt>so talk to gerd
14:27<Chutt>since he named it that
14:27<diz>i think the problem is that there's a standard where it's -1.25MHz
14:27<rcaskey>our apartment complex gets a satelite feed and redistributes it
14:27<rcaskey>quality is aweful and the bundle it into the rent
14:27<diz>rather than +1.25MHz
14:27<rcaskey>but we get decent premium channels
14:27<diz>plus there's a standard where it's -0.75MHz
14:27<diz>and another where it's +0.75MHz
14:27<Chutt>rcaskey, some guy at a college in the us had the same problem
14:28<Chutt>mdz, lemme know when its up
14:28<rcaskey>might wanna make sure not to overwrite any changes to the default channel value in the schema
14:28<mdz_>Chutt: done
14:28<diz>chutt: i can pretty much tell you exactly whcih cable tv companies in the us use which frequencies if you really care
14:28<mdz_>Chutt: I hacked up mc.sql so it didn't hardcode the database name
14:28<diz>but you apparently don't
14:28<rcaskey>err finetune value
14:28<mdz_>Chutt: and used CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS
14:28<-- diz( has left #mythtv
14:28<Chutt>mdz, url again?
14:28<Chutt>aww, he left
14:29<vektor>Chutt: sorry
14:30* mdz_reads argument-scrollback
14:30<Chutt>not much of an argument
14:30<Chutt>'that frequency table doesn't exist!'
14:30<mdz_>it sounds like in the end the only issue is the name of the frequency table
14:31<Chutt>'it's in the code named like that'
14:31<Antw73>I think he sounded hostile from the start, oh well
14:31<Chutt>i can rename it 'us-cable-one-channel-off' =)
14:31<Chutt>well, one and change
14:32<vektor>he's quite pissed off i think that everyone used his frequencies code without telling him
14:32<mdz_>"canada" is a pretty good name for "off by one-and-change"
14:32* mdz_fucks
14:32<vektor>and used a bad old version and that
14:32* mdz_er, ducks
14:32<vektor>mdz: loser :)
14:32<vektor>and then adding stuff like 'canada-cable' when that's not what it is :)
14:32<Chutt>vektor, i just grabbed it from xawtv
14:32<vektor>Chutt: exactly.
14:32<vektor>Chutt: nathan didn't even know xawtv was using it.
14:32<mdz_>my word, the packaging for gstreamer is awful
14:32<Antw73>did he put it under GPL?
14:32<vektor>Antw73: no.
14:33<mdz_>all the stuff that ftpmaster rejects, and that gets in?
14:33<Antw73>what license?
14:33<vektor>Antw73: it was released without mentioning.
14:33<Chutt>it's under the GPL in that tvset distribution
14:33<vektor>Chutt: and that version predates tvset. i don't think tvset is explicitly gpl, is it?
14:33<Antw73>Chutt: yup, just saw that myself
14:34<vektor>but anyway
14:34<vektor>i don't _really_ know anyway.
14:34<vektor>just my impression.
14:34<Chutt>mdz, works =)
14:35* vektorback later
14:35<Antw73>grrr, waiting for damn patch cluster to finish so I can go home and mail patches =)
14:35<Chutt>mdz, except that mythfilldatabase doesn't work as anything but the user that ran setup
14:36<Chutt>since it looks for the xmltv config file in the user's home dir
14:38<Antw73>cd ../S8MU7
14:38<Antw73>oops, wrong window, sorry
14:38<Chutt>mdz, but mythtv works
14:38<mdz_>Chutt: good
14:38<Chutt>and the frontend
14:39<mdz_>Chutt: that is annoying about xmltv, but the cron job will run it as the mythtv user anyway
14:39<Chutt>might want to add a note to edit the settings.txt
14:39<Chutt>but for the initial database population
14:39<mdz_>right, setup runs mythfilldatabase, right?
14:39-!-Keyser[zzz] is now known as KeyserSoze
14:39<mdz_>but the debconf note says to run setup as mythtv :-)
14:39<Chutt>it says 'run mythfilldatabase'
14:39<Chutt>or 'run mythfilldatabase --manual'
14:39<Chutt>if you're using the xmltv grabber
14:40<Chutt>eurpoean xmltv grabbers
14:40<Antw73>mutter =)
14:40<Chutt>and, just a note to edit the settings files to set the grabber and path names would work
14:40<Chutt>it'd be better than most .debs, at least
14:40<Chutt>'here, i'm going to install this for you, but you're screwed when you want to figure out what to run!'
14:41<mdz_>oh, I forgot about the grabber
14:41<mdz_>I could easily add a question for that
14:41<Chutt>there's that
14:41<Chutt>and path names and buffer sizes
14:41<Chutt>and junk like that
14:41<Antw73>mdz: you might be better leaving the grabber out or making a separate .deb for each grabber
14:42<mdz_>the grabber doesn't need to be set before setup runs, does it?
14:42<Chutt>it does
14:42<mdz_>Antw73: the grabber is in the xmltv package, of course
14:42<Chutt>setup runs <grabber> --configure
14:42<Antw73>yes, but the different grabbers for different zones require some different Perl modules
14:43<Chutt>the xmltv debs just install all that junk
14:43<Antw73>great, ignore me then =)
14:43<mdz_>I'll add a question for the grabber, since that's necessary to complete the setup
14:43<mdz_>and then a note to tweak settings.txt
14:43<Chutt>selectable list
14:44<mdz_>I guess I'll have to hardcode it
14:44<mdz_>unless xmltv provides that information in a useful way
14:44<Chutt>it doesn't
14:44<mdz_>you think medium or high priority for the grabber question?
14:44<mdz_>what's the US/non-US breakdown for your users?
14:45<mdz_>er, north america/non-north-america
14:45<Chutt>mostly us
14:46<Chutt>good deal of non-us people, though
14:46<Antw73>I have a feeling the euro count will be higher when we can get the non-us stuff working a bit more automatically
14:47<Antw73>a lot of that is dependant on some xmltv peculiarities though
14:47<mdz_>I could generate a default based on the user's locale settings
14:47<mdz_>but that sounds like too much work :-)
14:47<Antw73>great, my patching is done, I am gonna go home and test the patches I have done to filldata.cpp and then mail em off
14:47<Antw73>mdz: NOOOO =)
14:48<Antw73>most euro's using linux set their locale to en_US.iso8859-1
14:48<Antw73>and only the timezone to europe
14:49<Antw73>setting locale to anything else makes a lot of applications a real pain
14:50<Antw73>right, I am off for a bit back when I get home through the 4 inches of snow that fell since i have been at work =(
14:51<Chutt>that's really no fun
14:52<Antw73>well, It'll be fun tommorrow afternoon since they open the skislope in town then =) snowboard time
14:52-!-Antw73 [] has quit ["BitchX: nine out of ten doctors recommend it"]
15:02<mdz_>new package with the grabber configuration uploading now
15:02<Chutt>ok, cool
15:03<mdz_>so how to handle getting mythfilldatabase run by the right user at configuration time...hmm
15:03<mdz_>maybe postinst should just run setup
15:03<mdz_>I'd rather it didn't get all interactive though
15:03<Chutt>to the 'not getting all interactive'
15:03<Chutt>let the user run it
15:04<Chutt>just patch setup to say the same line as the dialog prompt did
15:04<mdz_>hmm, the freqtable needs a question too I should thin
15:04<Chutt>to give them a line to cut and paste to run mythfilldatabase as the proper user
15:04<Chutt>mdz, really lots of stuff in settings.txt needs a question
15:04<Chutt>the file locations, the freqtab, the tv norm, all that
15:05<mdz_>well, all I'm interested in is making it so that after the questions are answered and the instructions followed for running setup, they can actually start mythtv and have it work
15:05<mdz_>the file locations are set to sane defaults
15:05<Chutt>are they?
15:05<mdz_>well, directories that exist and have proper permissions
15:05<Chutt>ah, true
15:05<mdz_>whether the user has enough disk is their problem :-P
15:05<mdz_>that ~/.xmltv stuff is going to be a huge pain
15:05<Chutt>ask for the TVFormat and FreqTable settings
15:06<Chutt>you _could_ make it get stored in /etc/
15:06<mdz_>imagine the user who wants to mount their big disk over /var/lib/mythtv
15:06<mdz_>they look, and there are no files in it
15:06<mdz_>so they mount, and suddenly mythfilldatabase doesn't work anymore
15:06<mdz_>I would be happy if it just didn't start with a damn dot :-)
15:07<mdz_>should there be any other options for TVFormat other than NTSC and PAL?
15:07<vektor>mdz: lots.
15:08<vektor>NTSC-JP, SECAM, PAL-NC, PAL-M, PAL-N at least
15:08<Chutt>is what i have in the list
15:08<vektor>Chutt: There are more.
15:08<vektor>But the bttv driver only supports those.
15:09<Chutt>mdz, the freqtab list is at the bottom of libs/libmythtv/frequencies.c
15:09<mdz_>Chutt: already there :-)
15:09<Chutt>the strings on the left column
15:09<Chutt>ah, good
15:09<Chutt>default it to us-cable, and that'll grab most people
15:09<mdz_>not very cut-and-pasteable, though :-P
15:13<mdz_>are the config file variable names case-sensitive?
15:14<Chutt>i've been meaning to redo the config file stuff
15:14<Chutt>but i'm lazy
15:14<mdz_>what would be good defaults? NTSC/us-cable?
15:15<mdz_>or will the euros protest? :-)
15:15<Chutt>i'd prefer those defaults
15:15<mdz_>ok, I'll default to those and tv_grab_na
15:15<Chutt>so do i get debs for mythmusic too sometime? =)
15:16<mdz_>new package uploading
15:16<mdz_>yeah, I've not had mythmusic since I switched to using the debs :-)
15:16<mdz_>I'm not a huge mythmusic user, though
15:16<mdz_>it should be a bunch easier than mythtv though
15:16<Chutt>well, it should be very easy
15:16<mdz_>it's been a while...does anything need to be configured other than the directory holding the music?
15:16<Chutt>everything it depends on is already in debian
15:17<Chutt>nope, not really
15:17<Chutt>the display order of all the song data can be configured, but the defaults are pretty sane
15:17<mdz_>ok, new deb is up
15:19<mdz_>so at debconf priority newbie^Whigh, it will only ask 3 questions and tell them how to run setup
15:20-!-rcaskey [] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"]
15:20<mdz_>I guess I should update it to current CVS now
15:20<Chutt>tvformat didn't get set
15:21<Chutt>str TVFormat=
15:21<mdz_>ok, fixed
15:22<mdz_>also adjusted the instructions in setup for running mythfilldatabase
15:22<mdz_>and updated to current CVS
15:22<mdz_>rebuilding now
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15:23<Namapoos>how much does the EPG download?
15:24<Namapoos>does it download per request, or a week at a time?
15:24<mdz_>Namapoos: depends on how many channels you have
15:24<mdz_>Namapoos: it looks like it does one HTTP request per channel per day
15:24<Chutt>the data is served up one webpage per channel per day
15:25<mdz_>for my digital cable channels (minus pay per view and stuff I don't get) is about 1 megabyte per day
15:25<Namapoos>so you can't look ahead a few days?
15:26<mdz_>Chutt: new deb is up
15:26<Chutt>you still haven't run things yet, have you? :p
15:26<mdz_>Namapoos: it downloads the data ahead of time into a database
15:27<Chutt>generally, 8 days worth of data
15:27<Namapoos>i understand that, but how many days?
15:27<Namapoos>so essentially a week at a time
15:27<Chutt>but that can all be modified, etc
15:27<Chutt>some of the grabbers only support a week in advance
15:29<Chutt>is 'crontab -u mythtv -l' supposed to show something? =)
15:30<mdz_>cat /etc/cron.daily/mythtv
15:30<mdz_>maybe I should switch it to cron.d
15:30<Chutt>excellent, too
15:30<Chutt>and it rotates that? =)
15:30<mdz_>that would make it easier for people to switch it to run once per week if they wanted
15:30<mdz_>or at a different time
15:30<Chutt>i think you said that
15:30<mdz_>yes, it should
15:30<mdz_>it adds a logrotate.d snippet
15:31<Chutt>can you fix the line wrapping on the setup text now? =)
15:31<mdz_>anyone out there who doesn't run mythfilldatabase once per night, SPEAK UP
15:31<mdz_>Chutt: mumble mumble
15:31<Chutt>line break after 'populate' on the first line
15:31<Chutt>and move 'with channel info' back up to after 'the database'
15:31<mdz_>Chutt: that'll just make more conflicts when you update the text :-P
15:32<Chutt>and maybe add some text saying 'this has been setup to run automatically', etc
15:32<Chutt>it looks bad with line breaks in the middle of words =)
15:33<Chutt>and that seems to be workin
15:33<mdz_>ok, ok, I'm uploading a new package with the line breaks fixed
15:33<Chutt>thank you =)
15:34<mdz_>my pleasure
15:34<mdz_>I hate installing shit in /usr/local
15:35<mdz_>I'm building it against testing now, which is what I run on my set top
15:36<Chutt>does the package depend on wget?
15:36<Chutt>since it system()s that to grab the station logos
15:36<mdz_>no, it does not
15:36<mdz_>I'll add that dependency
15:36<mdz_>I probably would not have noticed that ever, since I already have mine downloaded
15:36<mdz_>unless it checks to see if they are updated
15:37<Chutt>just if there's any new ones
15:37<mdz_>doesn't qt give you an easy http fetcher?
15:39<Chutt>i dunno
15:39<mdz_>I added the dependency anyhow
15:39<Chutt>i'll look into that if i'm ever feeling bored
15:40<mdz_>more or less bored than you would have to be to write the GUI setup?
15:42<Chutt>this works well
15:42<Chutt>nice work
15:43<mdz_>just installed it on my set top
15:44<mdz_>the TV is in use, so I can't check much :-)
15:44<mdz_>mythfrontend starts up, though
15:44<mdz_>of course, I'm overriding all of the configuration in ~/.mythtv
15:44<mdz_>so you think it's ready to release with 0.7, then?
15:45<mdz_>the questions need to be fleshed out with some explanations, I think
15:45<Chutt>sure, if you do
15:45<Namapoos>mdz, what is your setup (for the set top?)
15:46<mdz_>Namapoos: specifically what?
15:46<mdz_>especially the high-priority questions should give the user some hints about what they want
15:49<mdz_>tv_grab_sn doesn't say much :-)
15:49<Namapoos>mdz, do you have an actual set-top, or is it just a computer?
15:49<mdz_>SN is the country code for Senegal
15:49<mdz_>Namapoos: it is a computer
15:50<mdz_>Namapoos: though what would qualify it as a set-top?
15:50<mdz_>it has no hard disk
15:50<mdz_>it is ATX though
15:51<mdz_>Chutt: I assume that the mythtv user should be able to write to settings.txt and theme.txt, since one day those will be configurable from within mythtv?
15:51<mdz_>fixing that now
15:51<Chutt>but when i make things graphical
15:51<Chutt>i'll probably only use the text settings files for loading hints
15:51<Chutt>and store all that junk in the db
15:51<Namapoos>has no harddisk?
15:51<Namapoos>or does it run off a doc?
15:53<mdz_>Namapoos: it runs off of the network
15:54<Namapoos>wow, interesting
15:54<Namapoos>network boot?
15:55<mdz_>Namapoos: yes
15:59<Chutt>'Do I need to rebuild the kernel for module suppoprt?'
16:12<Chutt>just got that g200-tv that guy sent me =)
16:15<vektor>someone sent you a g200-tv ? :)
16:15<vektor>what for?
16:15<Chutt>he wants the hardware compression supported
16:16<mdz_>hardware compression, bah
16:16<mdz_>for the cost of a hardware compressor, you can get a much faster CPU and better compression, plus faster everything else
16:16<mdz_>and you're not tied to a particular codec
16:46<Chutt>is there something not obvious about the 'Couldn't find xv support, dying' error message?
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16:50<Antw73>brrrr cold out there
16:50<Chutt>heh, howdy
16:51<Antw73>drifts up to about 3 feet in places out there, minus about 15C too =)
16:51<Antw73>didn't look so bad out my window
16:52<Antw73>anyways, just testing the patches for mythfilldatabase then I'll send it over
16:53<Chutt>i'm pretty much done getting the release ready, other than that
16:53<Antw73>I add a new flag, --update, so as not to disturb anyone else who it works for already
16:53<Chutt>ok, i'll have to see =)
16:54<Antw73>its alongside the manual so as to only allow one or the other, with both It'll just take the first since they are meaningless together
16:55<Antw73>I also changed the manual default value from 1 to zero to allow quick skipping of unwanted channels
16:55<Antw73>its all commented so you can see what and why
16:56<Antw73>mostly very minor changes but it makes the database much simpler for us folks who have to do manual loading
16:57<Antw73>looks to be working peachy, I'll just let it finish to be sure
16:57<Antw73>you still want unified diffs?
16:59<Chutt>if you please
16:59<Chutt>reading context diffs is a pain
16:59<Antw73>no problem, doesn't matter to me
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17:08<Antw73>patch sent
17:08<Universe>a doc day, uh Chutt?
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17:16<Chutt>ant, looks good
17:16<Chutt>i'm applying it now
17:17<Antw73>great, like I said, mostly minor things
17:19<Antw73>I'm going to see if I can't make it fix the automatic running of mythfilldatabase at some point, but with the way xmltv is returning the data that will be a pig
17:22<Chutt>it's in
17:23<Antw73>right, now, back to the VCD stuff =)
17:24<mdz_>Antw73: VCD is MPEG-1, yes?L
17:24<Antw73>: yes, mpeg1 with very specific settings
17:24<mdz_>has anyone tried reording directly to mpeg-1?
17:24<Antw73>: svcd is mpeg2 with easier settings
17:25<mdz_>Chutt, I seem to recall you said some of the codecs in libavcodec did not work correctly for some reason
17:25<Antw73>without a hw mpeg encoder, its not worth the cpu
17:25<mdz_>mpeg-1 is fast
17:25<Antw73>no, its not, its slow as hell for decent quality
17:26<Antw73>the fast settings end up with major blockyness with large motion
17:28<Antw73>but, with good settings and enough cpu time you can get decent slightly better than VHS quality at VCD settings
17:29<Antw73>I intend to make the quality adjustable with the default being a tradeoff with reasonable quality and not too much time
17:30<mdz_>when I was capturing with avview, I found mpeg-1 with high quality settings to be faster than mpeg-4
17:31<Antw73>really? with the motion search precision turned up too? How did the output file quality compare?
17:33<mdz_>just converted my set top over to use the debs
17:33<mdz_>seems to be working
17:34<Chutt>i just put together all the tarballs
17:34<mdz_>are the tarballs up for download yet?
17:35<mdz_>I'll roll some new packages
17:35<Chutt>not linked yet
17:35<Chutt>but they are
17:35<Universe>what does the -update Antw73?
17:35<Universe>err -update do..
17:35<Antw73>when you get so popular that you need a mirror site, I'll set one up at for ya =)
17:36<Chutt>should be fine with all the screenshots at sourceforge
17:36<Antw73>Universe: makes it easier for people who manually edit their channel table to not corrupt it with every mythfilldatabase run
17:37<Antw73>Chutt: Euro site with dedicated 100Mbit to the 155Mbit Swedish backbone
17:37<Chutt>not bad =)
17:37<mdz_>a whole 9kbytes/sec downloading the tarball
17:38<Antw73>well, its a kernel mirror site too, but thats not usually too loaded, just after big releases =)
17:39<Chutt>hey, that's pretty much maxing out my dsl =)
17:39<Chutt>well, it's close at least
17:40<Antw73>hehehe, you sure you don't want a mirror site? =)
17:40<Chutt>what kinda logging?
17:40<Chutt>well, if i were to do that, i should just use sourceforge
17:40<Chutt>i guess
17:40<Antw73>: depends if you want it or not
17:40<Antw73>true =)
17:40<Antw73>well, the offer is open if you like
17:41<Chutt>we'll see after this release
17:41<Antw73>always good to have options
17:41<Antw73>well, we host a few small projects and some large mirrors, nothing much else right now
17:42<Antw73> is the site if you get curious sometime
17:44<-- Universehas quit ()
17:47<mdz_>I wonder if these debs would build on woody
17:47<mdz_>ever tried building mythtv on woody?
17:47* mdz_tries it
17:49<mdz_>bah, the xmltv dependencies are built for perl 5.8
17:49<mdz_>I believe marillat has a liblame for woody though
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17:56<mdz_>something is resetting my contrast setting
17:56<mdz_>oh, no it isn't
17:56<mdz_>you just can't set more than one thing at a time with v4lctl, grr
17:56<Antw73>check behind the sofa for a GF with a remote, thats usually the problem
17:58<Antw73>mine usually has a sense of humour with the aspect ration while I am trying to get the TV out filling the screen with no black borders, she flips 4:3 -> 16:9 bleargh =)
17:58<Antw73>errr aspect RATIO =)
18:00<mdz_>this build is WAY slower than the last one
18:00<Chutt>what'd you break? =)
18:01<Chutt>or is it the EXTRA_LOCKING thing
18:01<Chutt>and, how old was 'last one'?
18:01<mdz_>I changed, well, everything :-)
18:02<mdz_>I cleaned the cruft out of my config
18:02<mdz_>where stuff was default
18:02<mdz_>all the codec settings and deinterlace=0 are in there, though
18:03<Chutt>could be the EXTRA_LOCKING stuff
18:03<Chutt>though i doubt it
18:03<mdz_>-DEXTRA_LOCKING wasn't making any difference before, I'm pretty sure I had that in the last snapshot I ran on here
18:03<Chutt>'specially if you're just playing stuff back
18:03<Antw73>let me try the new one, my machine is borderline so if its slower I'll know cos it won't work =)
18:04<mdz_>I noticed it when watching live
18:04<Chutt> =)
18:04<Chutt>stuff's linked there
18:04<Chutt>it seems to be running about the same here.
18:04<Antw73>is it the same as the one in CVS just now?
18:05<mdz_>playback is about 23-25% up from 20% for playback
18:05<Chutt>exactly the same
18:05<mdz_>something is weird
18:05<Antw73>right building
18:06<Antw73>takes a while for me to build P3-600 =)
18:06<mdz_>I'm sure it's something I changed
18:06<mdz_>but I can't see what
18:06<Chutt>it could also be the new stuff in ringbuffer.cpp
18:06<Chutt>john added some code there
18:07<brtb>would this work? main machine doing recording, storing to its own hard drive and database. extra machine in another room, tv drive network-mounted and looking at the database on the other machine, streaming playback over the network. only thing I can think of that'd go wrong is the second machine would try to record too
18:07<mdz_>I was able to watch live at 640x480 before, but not now. CPU maxed out
18:07<Chutt>brtb, i'm going to be working on that soonish
18:07<Chutt>since that's how i want to set things up
18:07<brtb>maybe just a NoRecord=1 flag for the extra machines?
18:08<Chutt>naw, more than that =)
18:08<brtb>lol... well you're the expert
18:08<mdz_>ah, I bet it's the sound quality
18:08<Chutt>most likely
18:08<Chutt>if that was changed before =)
18:08<Chutt>that can really eat cpu =)
18:08<Antw73>might wanna think about multicast instead of direct nfs tho =) more than one system could listen to the stream =)
18:09<Chutt>no real need for multicast
18:09<Antw73>but I guess all these comments came up during that thread on the mailing list
18:09<mdz_>I was using quality=9 before
18:09<mdz_>and I let it go down to 7, the default
18:09<Chutt>sample rate?
18:10<mdz_>was and is 32000
18:10<mdz_>I did build it on a different machine
18:10<mdz_>I'm going to build it on this box again and see
18:10<Chutt>playback for me still says like 5% used in top
18:11<mdz_>well, a chroot anyway
18:11<Antw73>Chutt: 5% I hate you =)
18:11<Chutt>that's just playback by itself
18:11<mdz_>before, I was at about 50-60% capture and 25% playback
18:11<mdz_>not much margin, but enough
18:11<Chutt>i'm sure top's misreporting it somewhat, too
18:11<mdz_>er, 20% playback before
18:11<Antw73>wouldn't know, I can't run top without it starting to hack =)
18:11<mdz_>now it's more like 70% and 30%
18:12<mdz_>audio compression runs in its own thread, right?
18:12<Chutt>same as video thread
18:12<Chutt>writing is a separate thread now, though
18:12<Antw73>since when?
18:12<Chutt>couple days ago
18:13<mdz_>I also moved the ring buffer to a separate NFS export, but it has the same mount settings and export settings as the old one
18:14<Chutt>mdz, target bitrate the same?
18:14<Antw73>ok, testing livetv
18:14<mdz_>Chutt: no, but I changed it back and that didn't fix it either
18:14<mdz_>I've found that the bitrate doesn't make too much of a difference, personally
18:15<Chutt>was just guessing =)
18:15<mdz_>it had been like this before
18:15<mdz_>and then I tweaked for about a week
18:15<Antw73>nope, no performance change for me, still borderline
18:15<mdz_>and then managed to get 640x480
18:16<mdz_>with about 10% to spare
18:16<mdz_>I didn't backup my config or anything of course
18:16<Chutt>of course =)
18:16<Antw73>Only way I can run at all live is with disks I borrowed from work
18:16<Chutt>i'm releasing this now
18:16<mdz_>never mind
18:16<mdz_>still sucks
18:17<mdz_>top lied for about a second
18:17<Antw73>you build on another system?
18:19<mdz_>but now I rebuilt on the system where it is running, which is what I believe I used before, and it still sucks
18:19<mdz_>what have I done
18:20<mdz_>back to 480x480 I guess
18:22<Antw73>that sucks =(
18:22<Antw73>did you play with the compile flags before?
18:22<mdz_>let me try EXTRA_LOCKING
18:22<Chutt>is there much of a difference between the two resolutions on your tv, though?
18:23<mdz_>looking back at my trees, some of them have it commented out
18:23<mdz_>no, not much
18:23<Chutt>i hate writing freshmeat announcements
18:24<Antw73>I notice the difference, but I have a 16:9 screen, in 4:3 mode its about the same
18:24<Antw73>heh, nasty interface?
18:24<Antw73>beware the FM deluge for it will flatline your dsl link =)
18:24<mdz_>Antw73: screen, or projector?
18:25<Chutt>naw, just coming up with the changelog in their desired format
18:25<Antw73>mdz_ normal 32" TV screen, 480x480 looks more washed out than 640x480
18:27<Antw73>Chutt: you're brave, isn't it about 6pm over there?
18:27<Antw73>putting out an FM message during peek hours =)
18:28<Chutt>i think i got more hits the one time i announced at like 2 am on a monday morning
18:28<Antw73>now thats just sick =)
18:28<Chutt>stayed up for a good chunk of the morning
18:28<Chutt>mostly was european people, too
18:32<mdz_>well, it wasn't EXTRA_LOCKING
18:32<mdz_>CPU states: 97.6% user, 2.4% system, 0.0% nice, 0.0% idle
18:32<Antw73>you using mpeg4 or rtjpeg?
18:33<Antw73>tried 640x480 with rtjpeg?
18:33<mdz_>have been for a long time
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18:33<mdz_>I haven't, but I think it would be too much bandwidth
18:33<Antw73>really? thats what I am running with compressaudio turned off
18:33<Chutt>mdz, try dropping back a few days in cvs
18:34<Chutt>see if it's the ringbuffer changes
18:34<mdz_>I still have my tree from 10/31
18:34<mdz_>but I blew away my previous tree, 11/06 or whatever, dammit
18:37-!-ssharma [] has joined #mythtv
18:37<mdz_>I'll cvs update back
18:37-!-ssharma [] has quit [Client Quit]
18:37<Chutt>i don't _think_ it should make a difference, but
18:37<Chutt>might as well see
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18:40<mdz_>I would even be willing to suspect that I had actually been using 480x480
18:40<mdz_>except that all my recordings are at 640x480
18:40<ssharma>does anyone have the a system like: remote -> ir receiver -> computer -> ir transmitter -> satellite
18:40<ssharma>(or a dish network system, like me...)
18:41<Chutt>ssharma, pretty sure some people on the list do
18:42<ssharma>chutt, I'll have to subscribe and ask there then.
18:42<ssharma>I just need to know more about the lirc setup before I start buying hardware...
18:45<Antw73>ssharma: I'm doing a similar thing, but over a serial cable to a digital cable box
18:45<Antw73>remote -> ir rec -> computer -> rs232 -> cable box
18:45<ssharma>Antw73: yeah, I think we talked last time I was here.
18:46<Antw73>ahhh, k =) ignore me then =)
18:46<ssharma>my big question is which kinda IR transmitter to get
18:46<mdz_>ok, I went back to my 10/31 snapshot and my CPU utilization is way down
18:46<ssharma>I have no idea how to build one myself.
18:48<mdz_>Antw73: what kind of cable box?
18:49<Antw73>mdz: Sagem, not certain of model number damn cable operators logo is pasted over it
18:50<Antw73>: friend of mine gave me a cmd line tool to switch channels on it
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18:50<mdz_>Antw73: ah, that was my next question
18:50<Antw73>apparantly works with most of that range with rs232 connectors
18:50<s3fudi>argh.. guys.. is there a way to find out the correct options to the tuner module?
18:51<mdz_>Chutt: my 2002/11/09 build is working way better
18:51<ssharma>does anyone have a cmd line program to switch channels on a dish network type system?
18:51<s3fudi>i only get garbage :/
18:52<Antw73>mdz: what cable box do you have?
18:52<s3fudi>in xawtv.. i just installed my tv tuner/capture card
18:52<s3fudi>its a pinnacle studio pctv
18:52<mdz_>Antw73: motorola DCT2000
18:53<s3fudi>and i've been trying to get the tuner to work properly.. i couldnt not have it tune correctly, i only see grains
18:53<mdz_>s3fudi: are you expecting the tuner on your capture card to change channels on your dish network receiver?
18:53<mdz_>s3fudi: because that will not work
18:53<s3fudi>is there a quick way to find which options i need on the modules?
18:53<s3fudi>no, im connecting the cable directly to the tuner
18:54<ssharma>mdz_: I'm on the one with dish network and I expect to send signals through an IR transmitter.
18:54<mdz_>ah, similar names
18:54<mdz_>both start with 's'
18:54<mdz_>s3fudi: maybe you're using the wrong frequency table?
18:55<Antw73>: mdz: you want me to see if I can get the rs232 interface protocol for it?
18:56<s3fudi>i must be.. but how do i find the correct one?
18:56<s3fudi>there are 15 different tuner options
18:57<s3fudi>and 10 different frequency tables
18:57<s3fudi>thats 150 tries..
18:58<Chutt>mdz, can you do a diff of the two trees?
18:59<mdz_>Chutt: yeah, I should have some answers for you soon
18:59<mdz_>I'm glad I'm not crazy
18:59<Chutt>too late for 0.7, though =)
18:59<Chutt>i hate people that think strace is a useful debugging tool
19:00<Antw73>heh, sometimes it is, but not on its own =)
19:00<mdz_>ok, I've now been able to test the two versions side-by-side with all the same settings and confirm that something is different
19:01<mdz_>what's this usleep(5000) about?
19:01<Chutt>what usleep 5000?
19:02<Chutt>rather, which
19:02<mdz_>around 1140
19:02<mdz_>ah, waiting for unpause
19:02<mdz_>that seems ok
19:02<mdz_>- if (delay > 100000)
19:02<mdz_>+ if ( delay > 200000 )
19:02<Chutt>only affects av/sync
19:02<mdz_>you want me to just mail you the whole diff? you can probably tell at a glance what the changes were
19:03<Chutt>that'd be best
19:03<mdz_>it's long, unfortunately
19:03<Chutt>no problem
19:03<mdz_>I haven't narrowed down the exact versions
19:04<mdz_>er, not sent
19:04<mdz_>sent now
19:04<mdz_>mail didn't work too well inside the chroot
19:05<mdz_>the ringbuffer changes are in there, as well as some nuppelvideo changes
19:06<mdz_>I doubt it's the OSD :-)
19:06<Chutt>i'm just going to go through and delete everything it can't be
19:06<mdz_>updated to a new version of libavcodec, it looks like
19:07<mdz_>maybe I should try to narrow it down
19:07<Chutt>which really shouldn't be it
19:07<Chutt>since i don't think anything important changed
19:07<Chutt>try the ringbuffer changes first
19:07<mdz_>I'm going to jump around by date a little, since I have a bunch of debs built that I can try very quickly
19:11<mdz_>ok, my 11/06 build performs about the same as the 10/31 build
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19:11<Chutt>try reverting the ringbuffer changes
19:11<Chutt>you'll need to make a small mod in the recorder
19:11<Chutt>and i'll be back after i eat
19:11<mdz_>just revert all changes to RingBuffer?
19:12<mdz_>when did those changes go in?
19:12<Chutt>couple days ago
19:12<Chutt>the 7th
19:16<mdz_>trying that now
19:19<mdz_>hmm, I backed out the ringbuffer stuff to Ringbuffer.h 1.18 and ringbuffer.cpp 1.22
19:19<mdz_>and it builds fine
19:19<mdz_>what's this about a change in the recorder?
19:21<mdz_>oh, I wasn't at current CVS
19:26<mdz_>Chutt: that did it
19:26<mdz_>Chutt: I backed out to RingBuffer.h 1.18, RingBuffer.cpp 1.22 and NuppelVideoRecorder.cpp 1.55
19:26<mdz_>from 0.7
19:27<mdz_>and CPU utilization is down by at least 10%
19:27<mdz_>from 100%+ -> ~90%
19:31<Chutt>well, that's good
19:32<Chutt>i wonder if it's just the fact that you're running it over nfs that makes it do that
19:32<Antw73>could it be the extra checks for edit points?
19:32<Chutt>oh, no
19:33<Chutt>that's a single statement in there
19:33<Chutt>nothing heavy duty
19:33<Antw73>k k
19:33<Chutt>mdz, can you mind trying with current cvs, but replacing the calls to safe_read with read?
19:33<Chutt>just reverting that portion of it
19:34<mdz_>CVS, or 0.7? are they equivalent?
19:34<Chutt>they're equal right now
19:34<mdz_>ok, because I have a 0.7 tree here that I've been using for these tests
19:35<mdz_>it's inconvenient because I need to do these builds on the set top
19:35<mdz_>damn libqt3-mt dependencies require the exact same Debian revision
19:36<mdz_>that guy's strace is a little curious
19:37<mdz_>that open("") does not look right
19:37<mdz_>unrelated to the hang almost certainly, but that is odd
19:37<Chutt>not sure what it could be from, though
19:38<mdz_>Jeremy Oddo needs to take it easy
19:38<mdz_>getting bttv working is a matter of one command
19:38<mdz_>except in his case, where it was already working and required nothing :-)
19:39<Chutt>but it's the most difficult thing he's ever done!!!
19:40<Antw73>I can relate to the install probs, someone not too familier with unix would have a steep learning curve
19:40<Antw73>mostly xmltv related tho
19:40<brtb>just going through the perl module bit would kill it for most people
19:42<Chutt>and once xmltv is in debian, i can just ignore all those questions
19:42<Chutt>'not using debian? sucks to be you.'
19:42<Antw73>heh, c'mere and let me slap ya =)
19:43<mdz_>Chutt: that didn't help (safe_read)
19:44<Chutt>that should be the read path
19:44<mdz_>system time is almost exactly the same, btw
19:44<mdz_>it's additional user time
19:46<Chutt>maybe it's the additional overhead of copying stuff to the writer thread
19:47<mdz_>have you ever profiled this beast?
19:48<Chutt>not recently
19:59<mdz_>how do I get something into LDFLAGS in this crazy qmake-land?
20:01<Soopaman>you two have done alot of work today
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20:07<Namapoos>not fun
20:07<Namapoos>don't talk for hours, stay connected
20:07<Namapoos>speak 2 sentences, lag out
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20:13<mdz_>hmm, it segfaults dumping the profiler statistics
20:14<mdz_>dumping the part that I need, too
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20:28<mdz_>Chutt: 3 of the top 6 most frequently called functions are in ThreadedFileWriter ;-)
20:36-!-rcaskey [] has joined #mythtv
20:36* rcaskeyis getting theerror IOBOUND - blocking in ThreadedFileWriter::Write()
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20:42<mdz_>rcaskey: turn on DMA on your disk
20:42<brtb>hdparm -c1 -d1 -u1 -m8 /dev/hdx
20:43<brtb>possibly a -Xudma2 or whatever level as well
20:43<Antw73>sounds like bitter experience =)
20:43<rcaskey>ahh thx
20:44<rcaskey>i get a strange error flusshing buffer every time I start mythtv
20:44<brtb>yeah so do i, doesn't hurt anything
20:44<rcaskey>its taking a while though
20:44<rcaskey>like 5 minutes
20:45<brtb>turned dma on?
20:49<mdz_>that's the sound of the IDE controller resetting
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20:49<rcaskey>brtb: i think
20:49<rcaskey>it started
20:49<rcaskey>do I need to reboot or something?
20:49<brtb>if you reboot dms will get turned off again
20:49<brtb>dma even
20:50<rcaskey>hmm, is there an fps counter on myth
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20:50<mdz_>rcaskey: er, mythtv runs at a fixed frame rate
20:50<mdz_>this ain't quake
20:50<rcaskey>oh, it seems a little jerky, I think im running behind
20:51<mdz_>you've probably maxed out either your CPU or your disk bandwidth
20:51<brtb>what's your syetem specs
20:51<rcaskey>p3 800 256 megs of ram
20:51<rcaskey>dinky 5400 meg hds
20:51<rcaskey>err rpm
20:52<brtb>is your HD racing like crazy?
20:52<brtb>and what video size are you trying to use
20:52<Antw73>rcaskey I am running P3-600 with mulitple striped scsi disks and I can barely get livetv without compressing the audio at 640x480 rtjpeg
20:53<rcaskey>default I guess
20:53<rcaskey>brtb: yeah
20:53<brtb>default is set for an athlon 1800
20:53<rcaskey>brtb: hehe
20:54<brtb>my p3-667 with 30gb 7200rpm drive will do 352x240 mpeg4 with compressed audio just barely
20:54<mdz_>Chutt: why does lame give you the channels in separate buffers when you just need to merge them? that's "lame"
20:54<Antw73>rcaskey: turn your resolution to 480x480 and turn off deinterlace and audiocompress
20:54<rcaskey>will do
20:56<rcaskey>brtb: if this helps then its cpu and if it hurts its disk I suppose?
20:56<brtb>it'll still be a combination of both
20:56<rcaskey>I tried streaming to a mounted share across the network...bad idea with 802.11 LO
20:57<brtb>100mbit network should handle it though
20:58<rcaskey>much better
20:58<Antw73>great =)
20:58<rcaskey>yeah 802.11a would do the job
20:58<rcaskey>so what res should I record this stuff at
20:58<rcaskey>whats it come in native at
20:59<brtb>whatever you can manage to squeeze out of your system
20:59<brtb>it comes in native from your capture card at whatever you set it to
20:59<Antw73>about the lowest acceptable is VCD (352x240)
20:59<rcaskey>brtb: but what res is it broadcast in
20:59<Antw73>erm =)
21:00<brtb>standard ntsc... closest approximation is 640x480 i guess but that's interlaced
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21:01<rcaskey>hmm, birthday is coming up
21:01<rcaskey>think im gonna ask for a new mb/cpu combo
21:02<brtb>i'm gonna try this on the althon 1800 eventually, just a lot of trouble to move the capture card and cable wires
21:03<rcaskey>brtb: hehe, its alot of trouble on mine sinnce I built it into my tv stand
21:03<brtb>oh, yeah, that'd be a problem, heh
21:03<rcaskey>cut out the back and mounted the mb to the side of the thing, put the power supply on lbrackets
21:04<rcaskey>it works well though
21:04<rcaskey>it also does a great job of muffeling the sound without making it too hot
21:04<Muzzymate>does anyone have experience with a half height capture card that'll work with Myth? I need to find one for my BookPC
21:04<rcaskey>so is the audio compression really mp3 still or is it flacc
21:05<Antw73>Muzzymate: I've never seen a half height capture card, have you seen one?
21:05<Antw73>rcaskey: its LAME encoded mp3
21:06<rcaskey>flaccs only for mythmusic then I guess
21:06<Antw73>rcaskey: or just PCM otherwise
21:06<Muzzymate>ATI has one... not offically but it's half height and you can bend the metal out of the way
21:06<Antw73>rcaskey: FLAC is a waste of time for most purposes unless you are archiving your CD collection =)
21:07<brtb>half-height... good luck
21:07<Antw73>thing is the tv-decoder usually fills half the height =(
21:08<rcaskey>what was vcd quality again?
21:08<Antw73>ntsc: 352x240, pal: 352x288
21:09<rcaskey>and which of the two compressions is faster?
21:09<vektor>Antw73: That's half width too
21:09<vektor>Antw73: Standard digital sampling is 720x486 for NTSC and 720x576 for PAL.
21:09<Antw73>say rtjpeg, marginally at the same resolution
21:10<Antw73>vektor: he was asking for VCD res, not more
21:10<rcaskey>im really not a quality sticker for tv
21:10<rcaskey>if I really wanna see something ill get it via netflix
21:14<rcaskey>ok one last batch of questions for the night :)
21:14<rcaskey>once I schedule a program for recording, what has to be running for it to catch
21:14<rcaskey>just mythtv
21:14<Antw73>just mythfrontend
21:14<rcaskey>will cron jump in and make sure everything happens?
21:15<rcaskey>Antw73: what if im watching tv, will it change channels?
21:15<Antw73>rcaskey: thats what I hear, not tried it myself, anyone else?
21:17<brtb>yeah it pops up a box, if you don't respond it switches and records
21:20<Namapoos>my stb environment is stable
21:27<Chutt>mdz, did you ever get a decent profile of things?
21:28<mdz_>Chutt: yeah
21:28<mdz_>want me to mail you a copy?
21:29<mdz_>there's nothing earth-shattering in there
21:29-!-Chutt [] has quit ["brb"]
21:29<vektor>mdz: you should profile tvtime! :)
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21:30<mdz_>it's dominated by libavcodec, of course
21:30<mdz_>I'm not sure how reliable the results are, but they look pretty sane
21:30<Chutt>of course
21:31<mdz_>did you get my earlier message to the channel about threadedfilewriter?
21:31<mdz_>it's not too surprising that changes to it would have a disproportionate effect on performance
21:31<Chutt>being the most called functions?
21:31<Chutt>i think it's the extra memcpy in there
21:32<mdz_>have you checked that stuff like BufUsed and BufFree are getting inlined?
21:32<mdz_>I built the profiling build with -O2, and they showed up, which sounds like they were not inlined
21:33<Chutt>might not be, then
21:33<mdz_>it might help to declare them explicitly inlined or move them into the class decl
21:34<brtb>heh... all the college people are probably trying to stay away from campus or something
21:34<brtb>erm... wrong window... dammit
21:35<mdz_>vektor: if you can figure out how to clone me so that I have twice as much time to work on software projects, I'd be glad to
21:35<vektor>mdz: coool
21:35<Muzzymate>does Isaac still use the AIW VE? that's the "half height" card I was referring to... so I'm assuming that this AIW card works decently with Myth?
21:36<brtb>tried mine, fails miserably
21:36<Chutt>that's not an aiw
21:37<Muzzymate>All in wonder
21:38<Muzzymate>he's got a link to best buy on his website, for a cheap tuner card
21:39<-- Muzzymatehas quit ()
21:41<mdz_>this shiny new mythtv release, and I can't even use it :'(
21:42<Chutt>you can revert back those files, though :p
21:43<mdz_>what was the idea behind the changes?
21:44* mdz_reads the damn cvs log
21:44<mdz_>ah, I see
21:44<mdz_>yeah, that sounds like it could be slow
21:44<Chutt>it's just copying it into a writer thread
21:44<mdz_>but I have trouble accepting that a significant amount of time is actually spent just writing data out
21:44<Chutt>is the slowest part
21:45<mdz_>how big are those chunks that it works with?
21:45<Chutt>thing is
21:45<Chutt>if the recorded thinks that it's behind
21:45<Chutt>then it'll not compress a frame
21:45<Chutt>at all
21:45<Chutt>with rtjpeg
21:46<Chutt>and if it was behind due to, say, a temporarily slow harddisk
21:46<Chutt>then it'll dump a whole entire video frame to the disk
21:46<Chutt>and make the problem worse
21:47<mdz_>I would have expected it to just drop the frame in that case
21:47<mdz_>writing uncompressed frames sounds scary
21:48<Chutt>if it were cpu that were temporarily the problem
21:48<Chutt>and not disk
21:48<Chutt>then it's the Right Thing To Do
21:48<Antw73>(Tm) =)
21:50<mdz_>something more subtle must be going on than a couple of memcpys
21:50<mdz_>memcpy is very fast
21:51<Antw73>mdz: depends if you are copying more than what fits in your L2 cache
21:51<mdz_>and gprof says that it spends almost no time in ThreadedFileWriter::Write
21:51<Chutt>but you do have limited amount of memory bandwidth
21:52<Chutt>_that_ could be slowing other stuff down
21:52<mdz_>despite calling it 9,000 times
21:53<Antw73>but seriously, the small amounts of data we are pushing shouldn't max out the memory bandwidth of a modern PC...
21:53<Antw73>few meg a second or so?
21:53<Chutt>a frame is half a meg
21:54<brtb>a full uncompressed frame of 640x480 is a meg, plus sound. do that 30 times/sec. then compress them all. then...
21:54<Chutt>brtb, 12bpp
21:54<Antw73>ouch, ok, ignore me again =)
21:54<brtb>ok make that less than a meg
21:54<brtb>still, there's lot of data moving going on here
21:55<Antw73>wonder how this would run on a sparc with the 8Mb of L2 cache they have
21:56<Chutt>there's a number of places where it's copying full frames of data around, especially in the output section
21:58<mdz_>rather than memcpying the data into the buffer, how about just storing a pointer to it and copying it later (and freeing it)? this stuff is all on the heap, right?
21:58<mdz_>s/copying it later/writing it later/
21:59<mdz_>that would get rid of the extra copying
21:59<mdz_>nope it's not on the heap?
21:59<Chutt>it gets free'd out of the encode buffer once it gets written to the write buffer
21:59<Chutt>i'll see about making that all runtime optional, though
22:00<Chutt>should be easy enough
22:00<Chutt>anyway, bbl
22:00<mdz_>I'm still baffled that this eats 10% more cycles
22:00<Chutt>same here =)
22:01<Chutt>works just the same for me
22:04* rcaskeyyawns
22:05<rcaskey>btw, recording worked great Chutt
22:11-!-rcaskey [] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"]
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22:18<-- Universehas quit ()
22:18<mdz_>it sounds like there are several folks in this channel who are using slower CPUs than I am; have any of you tried 0.7?
22:19<brtb>i'm on cvs from... lemme see
22:20<brtb>the 4th
22:20<mdz_>the changes we're talking about went in on 11/07
22:20<brtb>in the middle of a recording, when it
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22:20<brtb>s done i'll switch
22:20<mdz_>I'd like to know if I'm the only one affected by this
22:20<rcaskey>hmm, is there an easy way to select until end of episode
22:21<rcaskey>if you actually navigate there you quit out
22:23<mdz_>in edit mode?
22:23<Antw73>I am using p3-600, but very fast disks, I haven't seen the slowdown
22:23<mdz_>Antw73: I don't think that it's an I/O issue; it certainly looks like increased CPU utilization
22:23<mdz_>Antw73: how much idle CPU do you have?
22:24<mdz_>Antw73: when watching live?
22:24<rcaskey>mdz: I think so
22:24<Antw73>mdz: my CPU before is at least 95% since just starting top makes it hack
22:24<rcaskey>maby I was mistaken
22:24* rcaskeytries again
22:24<Antw73>let me try and run top one sec
22:25<mdz_>Antw73: you could run it under time(1)
22:26<mdz_>that shouldn't introduce any overhead like running top
22:26<Antw73>same, about 2% idle running top and a little hack every now and again
22:26<mdz_>that's a pretty slim margin
22:26<Antw73>say without top runs fine
22:26<mdz_>curiouser and curiouser
22:26<Antw73>66% encoding, 33% playing
22:27<Antw73>seems the same to me, as bad as ever =)
22:28<Antw73>but I am running without audiocompression and using rtjpeg
22:29<Antw73>have you tried running comparisons with rtjpeg if that has a 10% slowdown for you too?
22:29<mdz_>no, I haven't
22:29<mdz_>but if anything it should be worse
22:29<Antw73>you think?
22:29<mdz_>because rtjpeg has to write more data out after compression
22:30<Antw73>but its easier on the CPU if its CPU thats the problem or?
22:30<mdz_>with stock 0.7, my CPU is maxed and beyond, I can't get smooth record/playback
22:30<mdz_>but if I revert those ringbuffer changes, I have 10% idle cycles to spare
22:30<mdz_>with exactly the same config
22:30<brtb>what do those ringbuffer changes do?
22:31<mdz_>they're to prevent I/O starvation in certain situations
22:31<brtb>at the expense of 10% cpu?
22:31<Antw73>shouldn't be so much cpu.... thats the thing =)
22:32<Antw73>be interesting to see what other people find
22:34<mdz_>this CPU has 256kb cache
22:34<mdz_>hmm, that's an idea...Antw73, what frame size are you using?
22:34<mdz_>you can't be doing 640x480
22:35<mdz_>I bet your frames are smaller
22:35<mdz_>the effect may be less noticeable with smaller frames, since they might fit in cache or whatever
22:36<Chutt>might also be more noticeable for you because you're on nfs
22:36<Chutt>but, i dunno
22:36<mdz_>I don't see why
22:37<rcaskey>ok, iv edited out commercials and the like, do I have to do something to save those
22:37<mdz_>it's writing the same amount of data to the disk in both cases
22:37<mdz_>at least it should be :-)
22:37<Chutt>rcaskey, hit e?
22:37<rcaskey>iv done that and the bar is red where the commercials are
22:37<Chutt>then what more do you want?
22:37<rcaskey>when I play it it dosent skip the commercials
22:38<Chutt>does for me
22:38<Chutt>figure out why it doesn't for you
22:38<Namapoos>tired chutt?
22:40<Antw73>mdz: I'm doing 640x480
22:41<Antw73>: dropping to 480x480 gives me about 10% CPU idle
22:41<Antw73>: say 15% idle on average
22:42<Antw73>mdz: you using nfs v2 or v3?
22:43<Antw73>I might keep it on 480x480 and live with the washed out widescreen actually, machine seems happier like this
22:46* rcaskeyhmm it worked after I exitted and reentered
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22:49<rcaskey>anyone tried anything much higher than 640x480?
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23:06<brtb>downloading 0.7, let's see what it does
23:07<Chutt>sorry if it's slow =)
23:07<Chutt>i'm also trying to update another machine to current debian unstable
23:08<billytwowilly>heh, how dare you use your internet connection for personal use;) heh, jk;)
23:15<Chutt>rcaskey, now that 'hmm it worked after I exittend and reentered' was a lot more helpful than 'it doesn't work' =)
23:16<rcaskey>hehe, sorry for being vague
23:16<Chutt>i think i just missed setting a variable when you exit edit mode to turn on skipping the deleted sections
23:16<Chutt>which is why it'd work if you exit and start playing it back again
23:16<rcaskey>ahh, ok
23:17<Chutt>so, thanks for finding that
23:17<rcaskey>np, there is also some wierdness going on at the very end
23:17<Chutt>you can't seek to the _end_
23:17<Chutt>just within a second of it
23:17<rcaskey>Chutt: well I did a cut to end and it plays a second or two of the end of the track
23:18<rcaskey>like I recorded something off of cartoon network so it had like 8 minutes of commericals after it
23:18<Chutt>it'd play a second of it, i think
23:18<Chutt>that's also a bug
23:18<rcaskey>doesn't bother me in the least
23:18<rcaskey>just thought you might like to know
23:18<Chutt>but it comes from the stuff i added so you couldn't seek past the end of the file
23:19<rcaskey>great work
23:20<Chutt>heh, thanks
23:20<rcaskey>i just had to kick the res down to get it going good
23:20<rcaskey>that and iv gotta move all my mp3s over the net to make room :)
23:21<rcaskey>so are cut files just temporary?
23:21<Chutt>what do you mean by temporary?
23:22<rcaskey>like are they going to be replaced with actual editing of the .nuv or are they here to stay
23:22<Chutt>eventually, you'll be able to schedule it to re-encode the file
23:22<rcaskey>Chutt: (mmm...vcd goodness)
23:22<Chutt>so then it'd go through and modify the deleted stuff
23:23<Chutt>but, i like the format of it and everything
23:23<rcaskey>Chutt: ok, might wanna delete the cut file along with the video then
23:23<Chutt>something else i forgot about doing
23:24<Chutt>oh well
23:24<rcaskey>cut files are a really great idea
23:24<billytwowilly>Chutt: reencode to what formats?
23:24<rcaskey>if enough people got together you could share your cut files
23:24<Chutt>no, to .nuv
23:24<rcaskey>("Commercials just magically dissapear!"
23:25<Chutt>you couldn't
23:25<Chutt>it'd be close
23:25<rcaskey>you would all have to be on the same ntp
23:25<rcaskey>and wait a while
23:25<Chutt>_exactly_ the same ntp
23:25<Chutt>like, really, really synced
23:26<rcaskey>i bet it wouldn't be that hard
23:26<mdz_>Chutt: any thoughts on multiple audio sources/
23:26<Chutt>multiple audio sources?
23:26<mdz_>I need to record from one mixer input for one video source, and from another for another
23:26<mdz_>i.e., from the aux input for the tuner, and from the line input for the S-video input
23:27<Chutt>just would need a way to tell it what to use
23:27<Chutt>maybe move that setting to the cardinput table
23:28<Chutt>yeah, that'd take care of it
23:29<Chutt>make it set it automatically from the capturecard table
23:29<mdz_>I guess in the meantime I could hack it into the channel changing script
23:29<Chutt>then override the default if the user wants
23:29* rcaskeybegins to wish he wouldn't have deleted his one recording so he could see how much taring it up could save
23:29<Chutt>approximately 0
23:29<mdz_>exactly 0
23:29<rcaskey>yeah your right
23:29<Chutt>you'd save a little
23:30<Chutt>but nothing to make it worth it
23:30<mdz_>in fact, regardless of what file you put in a tar, you don't save any space
23:30<rcaskey>mdz: well with gunzip too ;P
23:30<mdz_>rcaskey: gunzip is not very effective at compressing files
23:30<rcaskey>mdz: it dosent really matter though, yall are right, its worthless really
23:31<Chutt>with rtjpeg, actually, it's a couple % smaller, iirc
23:31<Chutt>if you use bzip2 -9
23:31<mdz_>Chutt: if you want to update the database schema to look the way you want, maybe I can fill in the missing bits to get it working
23:31<mdz_>I'll want this as soon as my IR transmitter arrives :-)
23:31<rcaskey>mdz: how much do those go for?
23:31<Chutt>mdz, the same type of field for the audio in the capturecard table in the cardinput table
23:31<Chutt>keeping the field in the capturecard table
23:32<Chutt>then setup copies the setting over when it creates entries in the capturecard table
23:32<mdz_>Chutt: but it's not a separate audio device; it's just a separate input on the same audio device
23:32<mdz_>analogous to the capture card inputs
23:32<mdz_>it sounds like maybe we need an audiocard table
23:32<Chutt>i was thinking totally different devices
23:32<Chutt>lemme think a little =)
23:33<mdz_>associate each input on each capture card with an input on an audio card
23:33<Chutt>it'd be little used, though
23:33<Chutt>more stuff for people to setup
23:33<mdz_>how else can you make use of multiple inputs on a capture card?
23:33<mdz_>and still get audio?
23:33<Chutt>using the btaudio driver =)
23:34<mdz_>I guess I should get around to using that, then
23:34<Chutt>the card does have a line in on it, right?
23:35<mdz_>yeah, looks like it does
23:35<Chutt>68MB left on my debian upgrade
23:36<rcaskey>eek, were you tracking potato or did they finally get the glibc update in
23:36<Chutt>oh, i hadn't updated this box for several months
23:36<rcaskey>heya all
23:36<Chutt>it's been sitting in windows for most of that time
23:36<rcaskey>did the gcc transition doc every come around :)
23:36<rcaskey>miscom on that first one btw ;P
23:36<mdz_>so the wintv actually has a DSP in it too?
23:36<rcaskey>i know a bunch of the kde devs were waiting on it
23:37<mdz_>or does it just pass through?
23:37<Chutt>not exactly sure
23:37<brtb>usually it passes through but there's supposedly a recording driver with it
23:37<mdz_>I assume that's what btaudio is
23:38<Chutt>transmits the sound on the pci bus
23:38<Chutt>no cable required
23:38<mdz_>the card has a line in and a line out
23:38<brtb>bt878 audio dma driver
23:38<Chutt>but only does 32000Hz, afaik
23:38<mdz_>so I guess I could either use btaudio, or loop the line out back into my sound card
23:39<brtb>if i rerun setup is that gonna mess up any existing recordings?
23:39<rcaskey>does mythtv disable the screensaver when in playback mode?
23:39<Chutt>did anything come of the 'status of gcc v3.2 migration' thread on d-d?
23:39<Chutt>brtb, existing recordings, no
23:39<mdz_>actually, I've already got it hooked up on the internal connector to the sound card
23:39<Chutt>it will blow away most of the rest of the database, though
23:39<mdz_>so I guess I just run my other audio input into the input on the bttvt card instead of the sound card and it goes
23:39<mdz_>btaudio or not
23:39<Chutt>mdz, should
23:40<brtb>so i'll have to re-grab channel data and setup the recording schedules again
23:40<Chutt>until i get around to doing graphical setup stuff
23:40<Chutt>then i can just let people modify things
23:40<mdz_>so what does btaudio buy me? just not having to hook up a cable?
23:40<Chutt>instead of reentering everything all the time
23:40<Chutt>mdz, basically
23:40<brtb>ok, so... if i have two soundcards what /dev would the second one be?
23:40<vektor>mdz: presumably better quality
23:40<mdz_>I'm recording at 32khz anyway
23:40<brtb>trying btaudio =]
23:40<vektor>also a little more control over sync
23:41<Chutt>if you think the tuner card has better dacs than your soundcard
23:41<Chutt>then yeah, better quality =)
23:41<vektor>Chutt: well, doesn't it go through a dac to get sent out the output?
23:41<brtb>can't have any worse, cheap piece of junk
23:41<vektor>or is it an analog conversion from the tuner?
23:41<Chutt>vektor, should be analog from the tuner
23:41<Chutt>but i'm not certain on that
23:41<mdz_>well I'll be, that works
23:41<mdz_>that was way simpler than the software solution :->
23:42* mdz_wears the dunce cap
23:42<brtb>btaudio works?
23:42<mdz_>brtb: don't need it
23:42<rcaskey>I guess in a few years we will all be looking for dvi in cards though eh?
23:42<mdz_>brtb: just needed to use the line in on the capture card
23:42<brtb>oh... yeah that'd help
23:42<mdz_>it knows to switch to the line in when you use composite/s-video input rather than the tuner
23:43<mdz_>rcaskey: if we are going to be receiving digital signals, I should hope it is in a more useful form than DVI
23:44<Chutt>doubt it
23:44<Chutt>it's allllll going to be windows media 9
23:44<brtb>firewire would be nice but there's no chance of that
23:46<brtb>it's gonna be in whatever form they can secure end-to-end, so there's no chance of snagging a digital copy
23:46<rcaskey>Im betting none at all
23:46<mdz_>so if I set a recording for a channel which is associated with the s-video input, it should switch at the appropriate time, yes?
23:47<Chutt>it should, yes
23:47<Chutt>i tested it, oh, twice or so
23:47<Chutt>but other people seem to be using that feature
23:47<mdz_>a simple test seems to work
23:47<mdz_>switched to the tuner, set up a recording, then watched
23:48<Chutt>but that one guy on the list was having problems with it
23:48<mdz_>though it doesn't seem to try to switch when I change channels
23:48<Chutt>lemme know what doesn't work
23:48<mdz_>if I am on the tuner and I try to change to a channel which is on the s-video input, it doesn't switch
23:48<Chutt>you need to actually change inputs
23:48<Chutt>it doesn't allow you to just type in channel numbers and automatically switch
23:49<mdz_>why not?
23:49<mdz_>I guess that makes sense for most setups
23:49<Chutt>cuz that's the way it works :p
23:49<mdz_>but my channel numbers are unique across my inputs :-)
23:50<mdz_>ok, how about this one, then. if I am on channel 90 on the tuner input, and I channel-up, it happily tries to tune to channel 97, which is associated with the s-video input
23:50<mdz_>and gets garbage
23:50<Chutt>i dunno
23:50<mdz_>never mind
23:50<mdz_>doesn't do that anymore since i fixed the database, it appears
23:50<Chutt>it should be checking inputs and all that
23:51-!-ssharma [] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
23:54<Chutt>there's only 114,229 lines of code in myth*
23:55<Chutt>half of that is libavcodec, of course
23:55<Chutt>well, less than half
23:58<brtb>what do you guys recommend for hard drives? need to get something, this is the third replacement IBM's sent me and it's dead
23:58<vektor>i think something is wrong with your PC and not the drives
23:58<vektor>if that's the third replacement you got
23:59<brtb>already thought of that, this drive has never been plugged into the first machine