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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-01

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00:06<knoppix_>hello ... any one home?
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00:09<knoppix_>has anyone had success using ExternalChannelCommand string in settings.txt to control a digital cable box?
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00:15<lichen_>aw it appears my myth machine has died
00:15<lichen_>and i cant do anything about it from here
00:15<Tuscany>knoppix, read the howto, section 8
00:15<lichen_>i wonder if it got those shows i scheduled
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00:18<knoppix_>Tuscany: well, I did, and it appears that for some reason whatever I set ExternelChannelCommand to is not recognized by mythtv ... apparently someone else had this problem in the mailing list too
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00:22<knoppix_>Tuscany: I tried "str ExternelChannelCommand=/usr/local/bin/changechannel" where changechannel simply echos "hi" but nothing appears on sdout when changing channel. I would think that whatever ExternelChannelCommand is set to would *replace* the internal change channel command so in my case, the channel shouldn't even be changing with my dummy changechannel script
00:30<Tuscany>that's odd. i take it your changechannel script is executable?
00:34<knoppix_>Tuscany: yeah, its executable alright
00:35<knoppix_>Tuscany: if my script echos "hello", should I see that the same place I see Probed: /dev/video - Television ... (sderr or sdout?)
00:37<Tuscany>as soon as you start mythtv it'll change to your default channel which should call the ExternalChannelCommand
00:38<knoppix_>it changes to my default channel (which is channel 4 physically speaking ... this will never change ... kind of like with a VCR)
00:39<Tuscany>so if you call changechannel from the command line with a parameter it works?
00:39<knoppix_>Tuscany: yeah, works fine
00:39<knoppix_>Tuscany: bear in mind, I do not have IrDA working yet ... I just want to test the hook for an external change channel command with a dummy script
00:39<Tuscany>theme.txt contains "DefaultTVChannel" which mythtv will change to
00:40<knoppix_>Tuscany: yeah, I placed 4 in the theme.txt file and that works fine now
00:40<Tuscany>right. you should still see something echo from the script
00:40<knoppix_>where should it echo exactly?
00:40<Tuscany>to stdout
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00:40<knoppix_>well, it is not there among the other messages
00:40<Tuscany>where you see the messages for "Probed...."
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00:41<knoppix_>Tuscany: yeah, nothing in those messages from the channel changer script
00:42<knoppix_>I used simple "Changing channel $1" echoed to standard out
00:42<knoppix_>works fine as standalone script "change_channel.csh 1" -> Changing channel to 1 on stdout from command line invocation
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00:45<Tuscany>well, if you're familiar with gdb you could try to debug the function TV::ChangeExternalChannel in libs/libmythtv/tv.cpp. It doesn't sound like your ExternalChannelString is being parsed correctly
00:46<Tuscany>can you actually see video and hear audio when you select "watch live tv"?
00:47<knoppix_>Tuscany: oh yeah, live tv works fine
00:47<Tuscany>ok, so everything else with regards to myth seems to work
00:47<knoppix_>it appears that other strings in the file are being parsed just fine
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00:47<knoppix_>I'm using debian package mythtv 0.7
00:47<knoppix_>and it took me over a month to build the machine and get this far :)
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00:48<Tuscany>you don't have quotes around the ExternalChannelCommand definition, correct?
00:48<knoppix_>hmm, let me check
00:49<Tuscany>there should be no quotes on that line
00:49<knoppix_>no,no quotes
00:49<knoppix_>what frustrates me is that apparently this is working for several other folks out there according to mailing list entries which I have combed
00:50<Tuscany>you referred to the standalone script as change_channel.csh but you mention the ExternalChannelCommand=changechannel
00:50<knoppix_>how easy is it to use gdb ... do i need to recompile with debug support (since I installed debian package)?
00:50<knoppix_>ah, yes, but alas it is change_channel.csh in both places
00:51<Tuscany>hmm...maybe try without the .csh extension? maybe qt doesn't parse files with extensions? I'm reaching here
00:52<knoppix_>okay, I'll give it a shot (the .csh extension came from section 8 of the docs :) should be fast to check this
00:52<Tuscany>to add debug support you have to edit and add "-g" to the QMAKE_CXXFLAGS_RELEASE line
00:52<Tuscany>which part of section 8?
00:53<knoppix_>hmm, let me check
00:54<Tuscany>hmm...shoot. I wrote section 8.4. seems that the maintainer of the howto docs botch my instructions
00:55<knoppix_>well, it is down near the bottom of 8.4
00:55<knoppix_>by the way, no dice with dropping the .csh extension
00:55<Tuscany>the line "str ExternalChannelCommand=/usr/local/bin/change_channel" and "cat > change_channel.csh" are the same script. the .csh extension should not be there
00:55<Tuscany>by the same script I mean refer to the same....
00:56<knoppix_>I realized that when I did it ... first go around I usedthe .csh both places ... now I dropped it but doesn't help
00:58<Tuscany>well, this is the easiest part of configuring myth to change your set top box. do you have an ir device to configur lirc? i could help you with that
01:00<knoppix_>well, I was thinking of buying the Actisys 210L which connects directly to motherboard IrDA head as opposed to 200L product which connects to serial port. Do you know if 210L will work okay (using standard SIR protocol)?
01:02<Tuscany>ahh..that's a good questionn. I'm not sure if it is. if you download lirc and run you can verify it is supported by the list of device options
01:02<knoppix_>My only concern is that LIRC documentation does not mention 210L ... rather just 200L and mailing lists have not reported any successes on 200L either yet. 200L is supported by Linux at the IrDA level however.
01:02<Tuscany>honestly, i haven't read any mention of it
01:02<knoppix_>great, I'll probably just buy the 200L (it is cheaper anyway and I don't need to preserve my serial ports)
01:02<Tuscany>lirc mailing lists have not reported success with a 200L?
01:03<knoppix_>lirc mailing lists have reported success with 200L ... as have myth lists
01:03<knoppix_>210L is still a question (connects directly to mobo IrDA head)
01:05<knoppix_>just so I'm clear on the other issue, you have no idea why the ExternalChannelCommand string is not properly changing the way myth responds to a request to change channel
01:07<Tuscany>no, i don't sorry.
01:08<knoppix_>well, thanks for all the suggestions ... I'll keep mucking around. Perhaps I need to recompile with debug support and get more comfortable using tools like gdb :)
01:10<knoppix_>I just wonder if it has something to do with the debian packaging of mythtv (maybe it is compiled some funny way ...)
01:10<Tuscany> know you might want to try the cvs release. I'm not sure when Chutt made the ExternalChannelCommand available
01:10<Tuscany>It could have been after .7
01:11<knoppix_>you mean setting this string may not be supported in .7?
01:11<knoppix_>well, .7 is the latest release
01:12<Tuscany>hmm...let me see
01:12<knoppix_>oh, maybe in CVS still?
01:13<Tuscany>it's definitely supported in CVS
01:13<Tuscany>yep, here' s the function from myth 0.7:
01:13<Tuscany>bool TV::ChangeExternalChannel(const QString &channum)
01:13<Tuscany> QString command = context->GetSetting("ExternalChannelCommand");
01:13<Tuscany> command += QString(" ") + QString(channum);
01:13<Tuscany> int ret = system(command.ascii());
01:14<Tuscany> if (ret > 0)
01:14<Tuscany> return true;
01:14<Tuscany> return true;
01:14<Tuscany>so it should be supported in 0.7 too
01:14<knoppix_>I'm using "ExternalChannelCommand" in settings.txt not "ChangeExternalChannel"
01:14<knoppix_>ah, I see, it is in there
01:15<Tuscany>right, ChangeExternalChannel just happens to be the C++ method name
01:15<knoppix_>wow, this is weird ... I'm probably doing something stupid.
01:16<knoppix_>Probed: /dev/video - Television
01:16<knoppix_>Probed: /dev/video - Composite1
01:16<knoppix_>Probed: /dev/video - S-Video
01:16<knoppix_>Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
01:16<knoppix_>strange error flushing buffer ...
01:16<knoppix_>Using XV port 120
01:16<knoppix_>Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
01:16<knoppix_>Changing from None to None
01:17<knoppix_>That is the output after I tried using up arrow once to raise channel number and then ESC to quit and examine the console from which I called mythtv
01:18<Tuscany>yeah, right after the last Probed line you should see the "changing to channel...."
01:19<knoppix_>which for whatever reason just isn't there
01:19<knoppix_>I'm using settings.txt in /usr/share/mythtv/
01:20<Tuscany>have you changed any other variables in settings.txt to see if they have any effect?
01:20<knoppix_>added str ExternalChannelCommand=/usr/local/bin/change_channel to end of that file
01:20<knoppix_>yes, for example when I once changed /dev/dsp to something else it registered ... but let me try something else to make sure
01:21<Chutt>knoppix, you can't use the external channel command stuff with the 'television' input
01:22<Tuscany>ahh....that might explain it
01:23<Tuscany>make sure str TunerCardInput= is set to CompositeX or S-Video
01:23<knoppix_>okay, just a sec let me try (should that be "CompositeX" or Composite)
01:24<Chutt>like it says in the output when you run it
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01:28<knoppix_>Tuscany: I tried Composite1 and S-Video ... in both instances, mythtv tries to change channel using the interal code and basically "tunes" to white noise
01:28<mdz_>knoppix_: it does what?
01:28<Chutt>err, no, it doesn't
01:28<knoppix_>Tuscany: in neither case does stdout record the output from the channel change script
01:29<Chutt>tunercardinput doesn't exist in 0.7
01:29<knoppix_>mdz: yeah, the digital cable box is sending the signal in on what mythtv and the tuner card want to call "channel 4"
01:30<knoppix_>I want mythtv to leave that alone (i.e. not change that) ... instead call the script to control the digital cable box but always tune into channel 4 frequency
01:30<Chutt>you can't
01:31<Chutt>hook it into the composite input
01:31<Chutt>and use that.
01:32<knoppix_>oh, but the output of the digital cable box is coax ... should I look to see if the digital cable box has another output (I think SVideo is not available) it is Motorola DCT2000
01:32<Chutt>as i said before, the external change channel stuff does not work with the television input.
01:32<knoppix_>okay, so I need to figure out how to deal with that
01:32<mdz_>knoppix_: I have the same box and it has a composite output
01:32<Tuscany>knoppix, it should have a composite output.I have the same model. hook that up to your capture card's composite input
01:33<knoppix_>Great folks. I will try that tomorrow and report back. Got to go. Thanks SO MUCH for all of the help. Would have never thought to try this.
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01:34<Tuscany>chutt, i thought some of this was obvious for cable box users??
01:34<Chutt>should've been
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11:33<OrangeSun>goood morning : )
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14:48<_shad>I'm gonna hack mythtv up so the ringbuffer can be 256meg, so I can stick it in a ramdrive :)
15:05<_shad>hrm. it works
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16:05<OrangeSun>_shad: how'd you do it?
16:09<_shad>it was easy
16:09<_shad>edit tv.cpp in libmythtv
16:09<_shad>search for filesize
16:09<_shad>and there's a 1024*1024*1024
16:09<_shad>get rid of the 1024's
16:09<_shad>in the multiple places
16:09<_shad>then the buffersize is in megabytes, not gigs
16:10<_shad>makes all my stuff a lot more responsive because it's reading and writing directly to ram
16:10<_shad>maybe I'll increase it to 512 since i have 768 megs of ram
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16:11<dMech>Ok, any mythtv guru's here?
16:11<dMech>anyone useing Mandrake 9.0/ATI TV Wonder?
16:12<_shad>probably not
16:12<_shad>nobody's alive in here
16:12<dMech>that's too bad, I've been working on this thing for a few days now, Can't quite get it to work properly
16:12<_shad>what's wrong?
16:13<dMech>well, couple of things... Start with this one first ;)
16:13<dMech>when I load myth tv, I get Can't open audio device: /dev/dsp
16:13<_shad>do you have sound?
16:13<_shad>alsa or oss?
16:13<dMech>alsa I'm pretty sure
16:13<_shad>are you using kde?
16:14<_shad>do a killall -9 artsd first
16:14<dMech>no process killed
16:14<OrangeSun>_shad: what are the other implications..
16:14<_shad>no sound in kde
16:15<_shad>or do a artsdsp mythtv maybe
16:15<OrangeSun>dMech: you can also go into the control panel and make sure that the sound server is off..
16:15<OrangeSun>dMech: also, doing a fuser /dev/dsp might be a good idea..
16:15<dMech>sound server off?
16:15<_shad>OrangeSun: thats what killall does. :)
16:15<OrangeSun>_shad: i meant for the 256-meg thing..
16:15<dMech>let me check into that
16:15<_shad>OrangeSun: you have a couple minutes of buffer, so you can't go back far :)
16:16<_shad>and it'll probably screw stuff up if you record
16:16<OrangeSun>_shad: yeah, but it'll just restart next time.. plus, i find getting people to do kills on processes isn't the best way to illustrate what's up..
16:16<OrangeSun>_shad: does it use the buffer when recording, though?
16:16<OrangeSun>I imagine not..
16:16<_shad>OrangeSun: ya, but it's just to test to see if that's the prob
16:16<_shad>OrangeSun: I have no idea
16:17<dMech>still get the /dev/dsp error, maybe permisions...
16:17<OrangeSun>dMech: if it' spermissions, should be solved (initially0 by doing chmod gou=wrx /dev/dsp while root
16:17<_shad>can you cat /dev/dsp?
16:18<dMech>fuser /dev/dsp returns nothing
16:18<dMech>let me try that
16:18<OrangeSun>also, you should be able to "play".. so, type in play <file.wav>
16:18<OrangeSun>and it shouldn't complain about dsp problems..
16:18<OrangeSun>are you running myth as root?
16:18<dMech>yea, I have +s on the myth exe's
16:19<OrangeSun>can you "play" a file?
16:19<dMech>let me find a file to play
16:21<dMech>play works
16:21<_shad>and you can cat /dev/dsp?
16:21<_shad>what version of alsa?
16:22<dMech>maybe I shouldn't run myth as root from my users kde session...
16:22<dMech>bah, didn't help
16:23<dMech>I also get "strange error flushing buffer ..." just before "player: Can't open audio device: /dev/dsp"
16:23<dMech>how do I determin alsa version?
16:24<dMech>or should I jsut download debian and ditch mandrake? :)_
16:24<dMech>hmm, says also isn't running in control center
16:25<_shad>do a lsmod
16:25<_shad>what kind of sound card do you have?
16:25<_shad>don't worry about the strange error stuff
16:25<_shad>maybe the drivers don't support full duplex
16:26<dMech>it's a soundblaster awe 64
16:26<_shad>idunno. :)
16:28<dMech>this sucks ;)
16:28<dMech>well, wife calling, guess this session is over, thanks for the help
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16:33<OrangeSun>_shad: a soundblaster awe 64 should work fine..
16:33<OrangeSun>has full duplex and everything..
16:33<OrangeSun>I think his problem is that he didn't have the user permissions straight..
16:33<OrangeSun>the two ways to fix that, methinks, would be chmod gou=wrx /dev/dsp or su'ing to root before executing myth
16:37<_shad>Idunno. I"m not that smart. hehe
16:39<_shad>Any way to change the brightness in mythtv?
16:42<knoppix>_shad: I was wondering this too ... kind of like how xawtv lets you set these things.
16:42<_shad>my 35" monitor is kinda dark :(
16:42<knoppix>_shad: probably this can be set in /usr/share/mythtv/settings.txt but I don't know the settings
16:43<knoppix>_shad: are you using television, compos or s-vid?
16:43<_shad>I don't see anything in settings
16:44<knoppix>_shad: oh, for television you should also try "finetuning" the channel ... you can do this by going into the mysql mythconverge database and setting the finetune paramter for a particular channel to try this out
16:44<knoppix>_shad: when I was running off television (recently changed to composite) I noticed that my colors were brighter when I finetuned the channel 10% up (almost like e.g. channel 4.1, 5.1, etc.)
16:45<knoppix>There have to be some settings though that apply in settings.txt ... wish this were documented somewhere.
16:46<_shad>Where's Chutt? :)
16:53<_shad>I forget how to use mysql
16:53<knoppix>_shad: there is always :)
16:54<_shad>I think I'll switch to composite
16:54<knoppix>_shad: nice tutorial there too ... I access mysql by installing webmin module
16:54<knoppix>remember when you switch to rerun the configuration utility myth-setup
16:55<knoppix>(might be easier/shorter way, but to play it safe I reran it)
16:55<knoppix>... it is reloading my database right now :)
16:56<knoppix>I hate when xmltv stalls ... must be a mirror with a lousy connection it pulls the programming info down from
16:57<_shad>what version are you using?
16:59<_shad>except with composite i can't use the pg
17:54<knoppix>oh, composite isn't compatible with program guide? Are you sure?
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18:14<_shad>how do you change channels with composite? :)
18:15<vektor>A composite video signal is just a single video feed
18:16<vektor>that is, there's only one 'channel' :)
18:23<_shad>so how does mythtv know which 'channel' you are on?
18:29<vektor>well, there's nothing signaled on the composite signal no
18:30<vektor>all composite is is the video
18:30<vektor>like usually that's like what your VCR or DVD player would output to your TV when it's on 'Video 1' or whatever
18:30<vektor>you can't change channels (or see which channel you're on) when you're on 'Video 1' :)
18:30<_shad>that's why I don't understand what knoppix was talking about
18:31<vektor>well he's probably changed to going through a VCR or something.
18:31<vektor>some external tuner
18:31<vektor>that would be my guess
18:32<_shad>have you setup mythgame?
18:44<mirk_dt>I'm trying to set up mythgame and have everything compiled...
18:44<mirk_dt>but when I select "Games" to run mythgame
18:44<mirk_dt>the only entry is "All games".
18:45<mirk_dt>None of my mame games show up. (Yes, I have edited the mythgame-settings.txt file for the correct paths)
18:46<mirk_dt>Any thoughts about what I may be doing wrong?
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18:48<_shad>no idea
18:48<_shad>I can't even get xmame to play a game :(
18:51<mirk_dt>using kde?
18:52<_shad>just did an xinit
18:52<_shad>using xterm
18:53<_shad>I have super.nes
18:53<_shad>how do I play it?
18:54<_shad>I guess i need catver.ini
19:37<_shad>I can't get mythtv to change the volume, what is trying to do?
19:56<_shad>aumix works nice
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21:48<knoppix>I like the general layout of MythEPG (program guide) but the text is too small to read on my Sony (non-HDTV) 26" TV. Any suggestions? Are there alternative layouts for the Program Guide. For example, bigger square blocks representing program slots would be helpful along with larger font size.
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22:13<_shad>knoppix: use a different font?
22:17<knoppix>_shad: maybe I'll just use mythweb to access EPG ... was kind of wondering if I could just scale the epg interface up for my low-res TV
22:18<Chutt>you can change all those font sizes in the config files
22:20<Chutt>and as for the number of channels / timeslots on-screen at once, that's a compile time option
22:20<_shad>Chutt: Is there a way to control brightness/contrast?
22:21<_shad>knoppix: What resolution do you have it in, also?
22:22<knoppix>the TV-out is running 640x480
22:23<_shad>Thank god for my 35" monitor :)
22:24<knoppix>I just tried installing debian package of mythweb using apt-get mythweb. No errors reported, but connection is refused for I realize that apache is involved here and I have no apache experience. Can anyone tell me what I need to do at this point?
22:25<_shad>I"m installing it now
22:25<_shad>gimme a min
22:26<vektor>knoppix: Standard digital sampling for NTSC TV is 720x486 (but usually the top and bottom few scanlines are skipped for 720x480).
22:26<vektor>knoppix: If you choose that sampling for your TV output you may be able to get closer to the optimal resolution.
22:27<knoppix>_shad: who makes your 35" monitor and is it a bona-fide computer monitor with HD15 and/or DVI input or are you just using a 35" TV
22:27<_shad>knoppix: No idea of the make, it was used for tradeshows. it has a <I guess> HD15 input.
22:27<knoppix>vektor: I thought the resolution you quote is PAL, not NTSC. Are you sure NTSC is not natively 640x480?
22:28<knoppix>_shad: what is the highest resolution it can do (and at what refresh)?
22:28<vektor>knoppix: Standard PAL digital sampling is 720x576 per frame.
22:28<vektor>I am positive. I can send you a copy of ITU-R BT.601 if you like.
22:28<knoppix>vektor: wow, I wonder where I got 640x480 in my head ... does this res ring a bell with you?
22:28<_shad>knoppix: I can do 800x600 at 60 I believe. 1024x768 interlaced is small on the screen, and doesn't take up the whole screen
22:28<vektor>I worked in the graphics-for-television industry as well. All of our generated content was 720x486 or 720x480.
22:28<vektor>640x480 is square pixel NTSC.
22:29<vektor>That is, if you have somethign which outputs square pixels.
22:29<vektor>But if you're sending over a digital video channel like SDI then you use 720x486.
22:30<knoppix>vektor: oh, so what is the best resolution say for signal coming off digital cable box (AT&T service) in North America?
22:30<vektor>That would be interlaced 720x480.
22:30<vektor>So, 720x240 per field.
22:31<vektor>And 59.94 fields per second.
22:31<vektor>Cool shit, eh?
22:31<vektor>I love magic numbers.
22:32<knoppix>vektor: I presume then I should be running X in 720x486 on my TV-out ? (interlaced not relevent for X resolution setting?)
22:32<_shad>12 is a magic number
22:32<vektor>knoppix: How are you outputting to a TV from X?
22:33<knoppix>vektor: I am using Composite (or S-Video ... not sure) TV-out on Nvidia Geforce4 Ti4200 card with Conexant TV-OUt chip
22:33<_shad>I hate computers
22:33<vektor>knoppix: And how do you drive that?
22:33<vektor>I was told that the nvidia cards don't let you write to the overscan.
22:33<knoppix>vektor: what does "write to overscan" mean?
22:33<vektor>And I've seen that on an nvidia laptop. We played a DVD under Windows XP and it squished it into the safe title area.
22:34<vektor>Well, the 720x480 number I quoted you inclues the 'overscan' area. That is, the area of the picture that's not visible on most televisions.
22:34<mdz_>isn't there a utility called nvtv or such that enables use of overscan on some nvidia cards?
22:34<vektor>Like you notice that on a TV the picture extends outside of the visible area.
22:34<vektor>mdz: and
22:34<mdz_>vektor: I don't have one
22:34<Chutt>the nvidia drivers in windows do, powerstrip in windows, etc
22:34<vektor>Chutt: Not with whatever card we had.
22:35<vektor>Maybe they've fixed this.
22:35<vektor>knoppix: You can see my bitchy tv-out-under-linux webpage here:
22:35<vektor>knoppix: but i'm quite bitchy on it
22:36<vektor>and that probably makes it useless
22:36<knoppix>Can nvtv help me sharpen the image on Tvout? I presume I need to check first if nvtv can let me write to overscan before I choose to up res from 640x480 to 760x...
22:37<vektor>knoppix: it maybe able to.
22:37<vektor>good luck.
22:37* vektorgoes back to studying category theory, exam tomorrow :(
22:38<knoppix>vektor: you're a mathematician too?
22:39<vektor>i'm a student :)
22:39<knoppix>grad or undergrad?
22:39<vektor>but yeah i just got a math/cs degree
22:39<vektor>and i just started my masters
22:39<vektor>and category theory is kicking my ass
22:39<knoppix>oh, I just finished PhD ... now looking for job :)
22:39<vektor>in what?
22:39<vektor>did you do your phd i mean
22:39<knoppix>in differential topology
22:39<vektor>wow coooool
22:39<vektor>topology roxorz
22:39<knoppix>studied 4-manifolds and symplectic structures
22:40<vektor>awesome :)
22:40<knoppix>where are you located?
22:40<vektor>i'm much more into the slums of topology
22:40<vektor>namely discrete math/graph theory
22:40<knoppix>sure, there are plenty of connections to CS over there
22:40<vektor>i'm doing my masters at dalhousie in halifax, nova scotia
22:40<vektor>well yeah
22:40<vektor>i also enjoy computational complexity :)
22:40<knoppix>ah, a Canadian I presume
22:41<knoppix>I'm south of the border a few hundred miles
22:41<vektor>yeah i'm a canadian nerd
22:41<knoppix>there is a nice book on category theory and its relation to CS by Benjamin Pierce ... can't remember the title though
22:42<vektor>category theory and cs are reasonably related
22:42<knoppix>Also check out Wells book if you have time ... Category Theory for Computer Scientists I think is the title
22:42<vektor>i do enjoy functional programming
22:42<vektor>i have 'categories and computer science' by walters
22:42<vektor>but it's cs stuff is rather forced
22:42<knoppix>vektor: I'm interested in category theory relationship to designing and specifiying a progrmming language
22:42<vektor>as am i
22:42<vektor>do you use haskell/ML at all?
22:42<knoppix>Have you ever looked at the book "Essentials of Programming Languages" by Friedman et al?
22:43<vektor>looked and ignored. programming language research is something that i'm curious about but not seriously.
22:43<knoppix>no, but I want to learn haskell one of these days (I downloaded a tutorial on it a year ago when I was procrastinating on the PhD thesis write-up)
22:43<vektor>i'm much more interested in stuff like computational geometry and graph theory :)
22:43<vektor>haskell is fun
22:44<knoppix>vektor: sure ... personally I am going more applied myself right now since not many jobs in pure math available (in nice locations that is) ... so maybe now I'll study a problem in quantum computing for a post-doc
22:44<knoppix>anyway, I won't keep you fromstudying for your exam. Good luck!
22:44<vektor>double bah :)
22:44<vektor>i'm not going to do so well :)
22:44<knoppix>what does bah mean :)
22:45<vektor>i really don't know enough abstract algebra
22:45<vektor>um, 'bah' as in 'phooey' or 'ugh'
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22:45<knoppix>yeah, good idea to study some abstract algebra first before tackling category theory :)
22:46<vektor>like, i really slacked in my group theory class in undergrad :)
22:46<_shad>mythtv just screwed up
22:46<vektor>i don't remember it at all :)
22:46<_shad>must be my upgrading of debian
22:48<knoppix>see you all ... signing off now for the night
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