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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-06

00:14-!-Kuwanger [] has joined #mythtv
00:15<devtrash>you'd think an app called freeVO would record as it's first trick
00:15<Kuwanger>Is there a means of recording audio without using the line-in?
00:20-!-knight__ [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:21<Kuwanger>Hmm../dev/dsp2 from btaudio, but transcode can't use it. :/
00:25<Chutt>'rec' from the sox package records nicely, if you're just wanting something to test with
00:26<nichos>Any recommendations of a cheap card, that works well?
00:31<Chutt>'card' is awfully ambiguous
00:32<nichos>oh heh, i guess so;)
00:32<nichos>video card
00:32<nichos>can't you get one w/both in & out?
00:32<Chutt>nothing that works right, no, not really
00:32<nichos>what are the 'recommendations'? the faq isnt too helpful there
00:33<Chutt>i don't recommend hardware =)
00:33<nichos>well, what are you using?;)
00:33<Chutt>that's all on the webpage, i think
00:34<nichos>Hauppauge WinTV card
00:34<nichos>but when i hit amazon w/that, it returned many different results
00:34<Chutt>that's for input
00:34<Chutt>hauppauge makes a bunch of different cards
00:34<nichos>so out put could be anything really, as long as it works w/linux
00:35<Chutt>pretty much
00:35<Chutt>need something that Xv supports, but that's most modern cards
00:35<lichen_>i think people have had the most success with nvidia's with tvout
00:36<lichen_>its still under debate as to exactly how to get it to work properly with the g400
00:36<Chutt>kindof an understatement, that
00:36<nichos>yeah, im using a gforce ti 3000 now, but no tv in
00:36<lichen_>yeah, i summed up like a years worth of mailing list argument in that one statement :)
00:36<Chutt>if that has a tv out, it'd work fine
00:37<nichos>lichen what input card are you using?
00:37<Chutt>or even without a tv out, if you don't want to use that
00:37<lichen_>hauppauge wintv
00:37<lichen_>i had previously tried a rainbow runner, that wasn't pretty either
00:37<lichen_>but im not a super video man either, so i didn't try super hard
00:38<nichos>well, 1st time w/this project, so ill need somethint easy;)
00:39<lichen_>just so long as its not the first time you've linux it isn't that hard
00:39<lichen_>er, used linux that is
00:39<lichen_>obviously i have lots of problems because i can barely form sentences
00:39<nichos>lol, no been using linux for a few yrs now
00:44<nichos>pci i wont cut it, i should assume?
00:44<nichos>for capture
00:44<Chutt>pci's fine
00:44<Chutt>agp helps for display, of course
00:44<nichos>wow, cool
00:44<Chutt>yeah, it's cheap
00:45<nichos>Chutt how 'bad' would the pci be, vs the agp? agp seems to be around $150
00:46<Chutt>for what?
00:46<Chutt>you've got a pci capture card
00:46<Chutt>and an agp video card
00:46<Chutt>well, not 'you', but
00:46<Chutt>that's what most people use, i believe
00:47<nichos>yeah, i guess since i only have a board w/1agp right now
00:59<devtrash>do they make boards with 2 agps?
01:00* Kuwangerfrowns.
01:00<Kuwanger>btaudio is rather choppy
01:00<Kuwanger>How do you guys record audio?
01:00<devtrash>line in
01:01<Chutt>btaudio and a line in
01:01<Kuwanger>Chutt: Is yours choppy?
01:02<nichos>which remote (if any) are you guys using?
01:04<nichos>so you use your mouse everytime to watch a show that you recorded?
01:04<nichos>(my g/f will never go for that;)
01:04<Chutt>oh, i just use a normal remote
01:04<Chutt>the 'nope' was in response to that other question
01:05* Kuwangerisn't using a fully seperate box for the recording.
01:05<nichos>oh, heh
01:05<Kuwanger>Tempting to get a cheap box, but the really cheap ones are probably not powerful enough.
01:06* Kuwangerwonders..
01:06<nichos>, get a decent mobo for under 100, i think the proc. and hd are the most expensive stuff right now
01:06<Kuwanger>How low do you encode things?
01:06<Kuwanger>bitrate-wise, I mean
01:06<Chutt>mpeg4 @ 640x480, down to 1.5GB an hour
01:06<nichos>Chutt how much run time is that?
01:06<Kuwanger>Chutt: What CPU?
01:06<Chutt>xp 1800
01:07<Chutt>live tv takes about 70% cpu
01:07<Kuwanger>I can't encode at 640x480x29.97fps, here..
01:07<Chutt>well, less
01:07<Chutt>depending on the scene
01:07<Kuwanger>It can only get up to around 15fps. CPU usage though doesn't reach 100%.
01:07<Chutt>harddrive, then, perhaps
01:08<Chutt>make sure you have dma turned on, etc
01:08<Kuwanger>hdparm -t says I can read at 38MB/s.
01:08<Chutt>heh, well, then, not that
01:09<Kuwanger>Chutt: What bitrate is that, btw, at 1.5GB/hr?
01:09<Chutt>3300 for the video, 96 for the audio, iirc
01:09<Kuwanger>I know the last time I tried encoding, the mp3 encoding was what was causing the most slow down.
01:09* Kuwangercontemplates testing pcm..
01:09<Chutt>maybe 112 for the audio, i'm not remembering right
01:10* Kuwangerwas using 64 for video. Looks quite crappy. :)
01:12<lichen_>i truly must be retarded, i cant get alsa to work, i compiled all the drivers for the live, install the lib and the utils, inserted all the modules, everything looks right, but anything trying to use audio fails, even mpg123 just trying to play a simple mpg fails
01:12<Chutt>inserted the oss emulation modules?
01:12<lichen_>i inserted a bunch of modules labelled oss, yeah... but i also did snd-emu10k1
01:13<Chutt>the pcm one?
01:13<Kuwanger>Weird stuff. I can do 320x240 fine, even while compiling. But 640x480 stutters like crazy.
01:13* Kuwangerwonders..
01:13<lichen_>er, the only modules relating to oss i guess would be snd-pcm-oss and snd-pcm-plugin
01:13<Chutt>just checking
01:13<Kuwanger>Chutt: Do you use any filter to get up to 640x480?
01:13<Chutt>how does mpg123 fail?
01:13<lichen_>thats a godo thing right?
01:13<Chutt>kuwanger, filter?
01:13<Kuwanger>Chutt: And do you record at 29.97?
01:13<Kuwanger>Chutt: Like a deinterlacer.
01:14<lichen_>it says "cant find suitable libao driver. (is the device in use?!"
01:14<Chutt>i'm recording with mythtv.
01:14<Chutt>and yes, 29.97
01:14<Chutt>lichen, weird, no idea, though
01:14<nichos>well, time for bed, thanks for all your help guys!
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01:15<Kuwanger>lichen_: ldd $(which mpg123) doesn't list libao, so I don't think it's mpg123. :/
01:15<Kuwanger>lichen_: On the other hand, I didn't think Live uses libao anywhere..
01:15<Kuwanger>lichen_: Could you cut/paste what lsmod tells you?
01:15-!-nichos [] has quit ["!"]
01:15<Kuwanger>Private message me it.
01:15<Chutt>libao is just audio output
01:15<Chutt>it speaks alsa and oss, among other things
01:15<lichen_>yeah, when i try to run myth it complains and says it cant open /dev/dsp ... but i checked hte permissions on it and the yare correct, and its linked to /dev/dsp0
01:17<lichen_>i mean it all looks good, when statring up it says "starting alsa sound driver (version 0.5.12a): emu10k1"
01:17<Kuwanger>That's always good.
01:17<Chutt>why are you using such an old version of alsa, though?
01:18<lichen_>old? its the latest stable i downloaded off the site like an hour ago
01:18<Kuwanger>lichen_: Most people tend to use the unstable development branch. :)
01:18<Chutt>it's relatively ancient =)
01:18<lichen_>i guess devi s up to 0.9 though
01:18<Chutt>over a year old
01:18<Kuwanger>Seems stable enough..
01:18<lichen_>hahahah well shoot me in the face why dont you
01:18<Chutt>and the 0.9 stuff started way before that, iirc
01:19<lichen_>it should sitll work though dont you think
01:19<Chutt>yeah, it should
01:19<Chutt>i'm just muddying the waters, as it were
01:19<Kuwanger>lichen_: I've not a clue what's the matter.
01:20<lichen_>amixer says the driver isn't detected in the system though
01:21<Kuwanger>Sounds like..suckiness.
01:21* Kuwangerwaits for mysql to finish compiling. :/
01:21<lichen_>sounds more like bed time, im already going to regret this in the morning
01:21<Kuwanger>That sounds familiar..
01:22* Kuwangerwonders if he can work out a means to actually do some PVRing with this.
01:22<Kuwanger>Guess I'll just have to wait to try out mythtv..
01:30<Kuwanger>What is this "QMYSQL3 driver"?
01:30<Chutt>qt's mysql driver
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01:33<MatCowger>hi all
01:33<Kuwanger>Guess I'll have to compile qt again.
01:33<Kuwanger>Still can't get that working. ;(
01:34<MatCowger>So, I followed all the Mandrake 9.0 instruction on the website, and everything worked great....mythfrontend runs, and is happy, I onlyhave one problem.
01:34<MatCowger>when i choose to view any kind of video - the console says 'switching to LiveTV to somesucj", but the Myth Window never changes
01:35<Chutt>and when you run 'mythtv' by itself?
01:35<MatCowger>also,does anyone know how, one you are at the main Myth screen, to exit Myth?
01:35<MatCowger>lemme try that
01:35<MatCowger>I can hit <esc> to go back from any deeper menu, just not quit the application it self.
01:36<Chutt>that's how it's meant to work
01:36<MatCowger>it would be nice if there were at least a key you could press rather than just killing the process
01:36<Chutt>that process is also running the scheduler
01:36<MatCowger>hmm - yes, I guess thats truwe
01:37<Chutt>and it's meant to be run on a standalone system =)
01:38<MatCowger>when i run the 'mythtv' executable, i get "Cannot open DSP '', dying
01:38<MatCowger>Could not detect audio block size
01:38<MatCowger>Cant open video device.
01:39<Chutt>you ran setup?
01:39<MatCowger>it sounds lke it doesn't know where my card is..
01:39<MatCowger>yes, idid
01:39<MatCowger>houdl I run it again?
01:39<Chutt>sounds like the data either didn't get inserted into the database
01:39<Chutt>did you not do the mysql < mc.sql stuff?
01:39<MatCowger>that one command, yes
01:40<MatCowger>I did that
01:40<MatCowger>which should I try again?
01:40<Chutt>well, check to see if the tables got created
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01:41<MatCowger>table name?
01:41<Chutt>db name is mythconverg, should be a bunch of tables
01:42<MatCowger>yes, but which table do i want to checkj on?
01:42<Chutt>capturecard, cardinput, channel, etc
01:42<Chutt>capture card should have the video and audio devices in it
01:43<MatCowger>ok, willcheck
01:43<Chutt>i'm needing to go to bed, though
01:44<MatCowger>the data did get into the table
01:45<MatCowger>do I need to be root to run this?
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02:19<mithro>anyone alive?
02:20<mithro>anyone know if the Xig server would work with mythtv?
02:20<mcowger>no idea. - I haven't checked to see what t uses for its screen rendering
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02:28* mithrowill go and play
02:33<Kuwanger>Is the thing supposed to use up 100% cpu doing nothing but showing TV?
02:33<mcowger>it could
02:33<mcowger>remember that it is digitzing the TV as well
02:33<Kuwanger>Should it?
02:33<Kuwanger>Digitizing it?
02:33<mcowger>what speed proc do you have?
02:34<mcowger>1.1 Athlon
02:34<Kuwanger>950mhz Athlon
02:35<mcowger>of course, I have not yet gotten it to work at all, so...
02:35<Kuwanger>Ah..the "remind" function, I think.
02:37<Kuwanger>It's encoding the show.
02:37<Kuwanger>At 1024x768, no less..
02:38<mcowger>what capture card are you using?
02:39<Kuwanger>Oh, a junky one.
02:39<Kuwanger>The image is being scaled up to 1024x768 from 640x480.
02:39<Kuwanger>It's dropping frames, I'd assume.
02:40<mcowger>heh - well, you're in better shape than I am - mine ownt even display video
02:40<mcowger>strangely enough, myth is the only appt hat has [problems
02:40* Kuwangerhad to install a junk to get this far.
02:40<Kuwanger>The Setup option doesn't do anything.
02:40<mcowger>which setup options?
02:41<Kuwanger>In the program.
02:41<Kuwanger>The mythfrontend, that is.
02:41<mcowger>oh, yeah
02:41<mcowger>I noticed
02:41<mcowger>Myth Gallery is pretty cool though
02:42<Kuwanger>It seems cool.
02:42<mithro>mcowger: what graphics card do you have?
02:43<Kuwanger>Seems a bit silly though to play back through the encoding.
02:43<Kuwanger>Explains why it's so freaking slow. :)
02:44<mcowger>I am using a nVidia GF2MX
02:44<mcowger>the playback thru encode allows for the pause type stuff, though
02:47<mcowger>if I cant get this to work 'll just put windows back on that meachien and go with SnapStream again
02:47<Kuwanger>What's the pause key, anyways?
02:47<mcowger>no idea, I cant fond any docs on what key does what
02:47<Kuwanger>Me neither.
02:47<mcowger>I'llhave to check the source at some point
02:48<Kuwanger>640x480 uses 100%..
02:48<Chutt>i guess i should've named it something more obvious
02:48<mcowger>word., thanks
02:48<Kuwanger>320x240 uses about 30% or something.
02:48<Chutt>you've got a crappy cpu, what did you expect?
02:48<Kuwanger>Chutt: How about naming the settings something local? :)
02:48<mcowger>I just expcted it to be in a config file or the FAQ or something
02:48<Kuwanger>Chutt: 950Mhz isn't crappy. :)
02:48<Chutt>it's less than a third the speed of new cpus
02:48<Kuwanger>That doesn't make it crappy.
02:49<Chutt>if you can buy something twice as fast for $50, then it's crappy :p
02:49<Chutt>keys.txt is referenced in the readme
02:49<Kuwanger>What's crappy is the stuttering. :)
02:49<Chutt>but i guess i can't expect people to actual read the docs
02:50<mcowger>See, I just read the document on the website labeled Documentation, and assumed that was it.
02:50* Kuwangerdidn't read much as far as docs..
02:50<Kuwanger>Bad enough going through all the mysql setup. :)
02:50<Chutt>don't know why i bother writing them
02:50<Chutt>ah well
02:50<Kuwanger>Btw, uh..any way to make full screen really full screen?
02:52<Chutt>i wasn't aware that it wasn't really full screen
02:52<Kuwanger>It's not.
02:52<mcowger>change your resultion
02:52<Kuwanger>Neither is motv.
02:52<Kuwanger>mcowger: That won't help. :)
02:52<mcowger>* resolution
02:52<mcowger>really? it helped me
02:53<Kuwanger>The window is not set to the proper layer to be "fullscreen".
02:53<Chutt>proper layer?
02:53<Kuwanger>Window layer.
02:53<Chutt>which junky window manager are you using?
02:53<Kuwanger>Nice program, otherwise.
02:54<Kuwanger>A Gnome compliant one? :)
02:54<Chutt>oh, sorry
02:54<Chutt>gnome's broken
02:54<Chutt>so, whatever.
02:54<Kuwanger>Guess I'll just make a script to deal with it.
02:58<Kuwanger>Well, if you do want to support it, the code isn't much to add..
02:58<mcowger>does the possibility exist that I dont get any viea because I have bad setting for the width and height? they are set the default of 480x480
02:59<Chutt>mcowger, not if you're still getting those same error messages
02:59<mcowger>those went away somehow
02:59<Chutt>it say anything now?
02:59<Kuwanger>Chutt: Want to look at it? It's not very large.
02:59<Chutt>kuwanger, nope
02:59<Chutt>i'll take a patch, though
02:59<Kuwanger>Great.. :)
02:59<Kuwanger>Where would I patch it?
03:00<mcowger>It gives me that it is probing the input, and changing from None to WatchingTV
03:00<mcowger>and sites there
03:00<Chutt>ok, no video window pop up?
03:01<mcowger>none at all
03:01<mcowger>thats what I foind weird
03:01<Chutt>most likely thing is your audio card/driver doesn't do full duplex
03:01<Chutt>and the 2nd open() call is hanging
03:01<mcowger>maybe the linux driver for it sucks, them because it does FDX in windows fine
03:02<Chutt>recommended thing to do is install the latest version of alsa
03:02<Chutt>or if you have that, switch to oss =)
03:02<Kuwanger>What in the world is XJ?
03:02<mcowger>how can I make Myth use OSS directly
03:02<Chutt>it uses oss directly
03:03<Chutt>if you install alsa, it'd be using the oss emulation modules
03:04<mcowger>i have to say though, the instructions for MDK 9 are well written
03:05<Chutt>you're using mandrake?
03:05<Chutt>doesn't that use alsa by default?
03:05<mcowger>well, im not entirely sure, as there is no alsa daemon running
03:05<mcowger>Im from FreeBSD land, so we dont have ALSA :)
03:06<Chutt>lsmod | grep snd-pcm
03:06<Chutt>should have a couple things show up if it's using alsa
03:07<mcowger>nothing there
03:07<Chutt>anyway, that's what i'd do
03:08<Chutt>it seems to support full duplex on more cards than the kernel drivers do
03:08<mcowger>I do have stuff for the VIA chipset that it uses
03:08<mcowger>will try that
03:09<mcowger>thank for you help :)
03:09<mcowger>i'll probably be back
03:09<Chutt>i'll hopefully be sleeping =)
03:09<Kuwanger>Well, I think I've got it.
03:10<Kuwanger>Except, of course, for the seg fault..
03:12<Kuwanger>Chutt: Where do you create windows?
03:14<Kuwanger>Just XJ.cpp?
03:14<Chutt>the video window is there
03:14<Chutt>everthing else is created by qt
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03:16<Kuwanger>Well, that wasn't good.
03:16<Kuwanger>So, how complex of a patch you want? :)
03:17<Chutt>how complex?
03:18<Kuwanger>There's only two files I had to change.
03:19<Chutt>.. ok
03:21<Kuwanger>Just ended up having to do a couple extra copyies..
03:23<Kuwanger>No problem.
03:24<Chutt>do you mind regenerating that?
03:24<Chutt>diff -u
03:28<Chutt>thanks again
03:28<Chutt>just makes it readable
03:29<Kuwanger>Out of curiosity..where do you select the bitrate for compressed audio?
03:30<Chutt>well, not really
03:31<mcowger>in setings.txt there is a MP3 quality setting
03:31<Chutt>you can't quite set the bitrate
03:31<Chutt>but you can set the sampling rate, which affects what the bitrate gets set to
03:31<mcowger>is it VBR encoded?
03:31* Kuwangergoes to read the docs to figure out how cron works with this..
03:31<Chutt>it doesn't use cron
03:32<Kuwanger>If X goes down, then I'm screwed..
03:32<Kuwanger>Does the show play while it's recording?
03:32<Chutt>not unless you want it to
03:33<Kuwanger>Well, that's..err..reassuring.
03:33* Kuwangerwill give this a go.
03:34<Chutt>if you want to view an in progress recording, you can
03:34<Chutt>if you don't, well, you don't :p
03:34<Kuwanger>I'm worried about the audio being on.
03:34<Chutt>why would the audio be on?
03:34<Kuwanger>Because live-in is on during the recording?
03:34<Chutt>if it is, you've got your mixer setup incorrectly.
03:35<Kuwanger>How should I have it setup?
03:35<Chutt>question #4 in the faq
03:35<Chutt>that comes in the distribution
03:36<Kuwanger>What about other players?
03:36<Chutt>i wouldn't know
03:36<Kuwanger>Uh huh..
03:36<Kuwanger>That's not very comforting..
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03:39<Kuwanger>Which device serves the audio with v4l?
03:39<Chutt>depends on how you've got it setup
03:41* Kuwangeris out.
03:41<Kuwanger>Maybe I'll figure it out later.
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10:25* Kuwangerwaves hello.
10:30* Kyzokuwaves back
10:33<vektor>Kuwanger: You come across as being pretty insulting :)
10:40<Kuwanger>No, just pissed.
10:41<vektor>Ah, you paid all this money and this is what you got. I get it. :)
10:41<Kuwanger>Is there any way to specify a sub-GB ring buffer?
10:42<Kuwanger>vektor: Actually, yes, but not the software.
10:43<vektor>Well I don't think we ever told you to buy the hardware..... :/
10:43<Kuwanger>I don't think so either.
10:45<vektor>At some point you asserted that mythtv was recording at 1024x768. That isn't true.
10:45-!-mithro [] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
10:46<Kuwanger>Right. I corrected that a line down that it was capturing at 640x480 and only rendering at 1024x768.
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11:17<tinsley>imagine that
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12:00<Kuwanger>Are there any plans to have mythtv suid as root and renice itself to -19?
12:18<-- Frugalhas quit ()
12:19<Chutt>run it as root and nice it manually
12:19<Kuwanger>Uh, okay.
12:19<Kuwanger>So, that's a no?
12:19<Chutt>pretty much
12:19<Chutt>the encoding stuff doesn't happen at the beginning
12:19<Chutt>so it'd have to hold onto its privs for quite a long time
12:20<Chutt>if you wanted to do it right
12:20<Chutt>and, well, that'd be bad
12:20<Kuwanger>It's already holding on to the CPU for a long time anyways.
12:20<Chutt>how does CPU equate with privledges?
12:24<Chutt>do you know how suid programs generally run?
12:24<Kuwanger>As suid?
12:24<Chutt>generally, they drop their privledges down to that of a normal user after doing whatever it is they needed to do as root.
12:25<Kuwanger>Like after nicing themselves?
12:25<Chutt>can't do that in mythtv
12:25<Chutt>so, whatever.
12:25<Kuwanger>Why not?
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12:26<Chutt>it's exactly the same thing as running the thing as root and using the nice command
12:26<Chutt>so what exactly'd be the point?
12:26<Kuwanger>To do it in the program?
12:26<Kuwanger>Otherwise I have to use sudo and write a script.
12:26<Kuwanger>Well, or suid the script.
12:27<mdz>if you don't care about security, then just run it as root
12:27<mdz>if you do care about security, then it needs to be done right in mythtv, and that is not trivial at this point
12:27<Kuwanger>I don't want to run it as root, really.
12:28<Kuwanger>But that's the easy solution.
12:28<Kuwanger>On main, if nice priveleges, nice to -19, drop all unnecessary capabilities.
12:30<Chutt>mythtv uses threads.
12:30<moegreen>Is there some sort of interprocess comm. planned for the next release?
12:30<Kuwanger>All forks and threads share nice level.
12:30<Chutt>if it drops privs, it will not be able to renice threads spawned after that
12:30<Chutt>no, they don't
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12:47<Kuwanger>And you can't suid a script.. :/
12:50<Kyzoku>sure you can, it just doesn't do much unless the interpreter is suid as well, I think
12:51<Kyzoku>isn't that the whole point of suidperl?
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12:55<lichen>oh my f'ing lord im bored
12:55<lichen>i would code but im bummed i cant get my alsa drivers working
12:59<Chutt>mdz, heh, more email about you breaking stuff =)
13:03* Kuwangerthinks sudo is broken.
13:06<mdz>Chutt: the thing about the database schema?
13:06<Chutt>just sent, about the guis
13:07<mdz>I hope it's about how they're impossible to use
13:07<Chutt>and if you're planning on making them like the rest of the uis
13:08<mdz>wading through the 50 messages asking wvhat hardware to buy
13:09<mdz>and people not reading the archives
13:09<Chutt>can't expect people to do _that_
13:09<mdz>wow, that SDL guy really justified himself this time
13:09<mdz>we should use it because it's "dope ass"
13:10<mdz>heh, he is arguing that things should be separate, like sound and graphics, when SDL does both :-)
13:10<mdz>I can't read anymore
13:10<Chutt>and i'll just write up my own tree widget
13:11<Chutt>i'll get on it
13:11<Chutt>right away
13:11<mdz>let's implement our own linked list while we're at it
13:11<Chutt>oh, yeah
13:12<lichen>it would probably just be best to totally rewrite all the video and audio drivers as well
13:12<moegreen>well if you're going to that extend - why are we even using linux? we could just write MythOS
13:12<Chutt>yeah, that way i could get that last ounce of performance gains out of everything
13:13<devtrash>mdz: when he says it's kick ass, I say implement it
13:13<moegreen>Winona Rider - convicted felon, 480 hours of community service...excellent.
13:13<mdz>devtrash: right away sir
13:14<mdz>meanwhile, let's replace nuppelvideo with mozilla
13:14<mdz>cuz mozilla is dope!!!!
13:15<lichen>mdz, actually its dope ass.. get with it
13:15<Kuwanger>Weird stuff.
13:15<Chutt>that guy?
13:15<Chutt>his first email to me
13:16<Chutt>hm, lemme see if i can find it
13:16* Kuwangerwonders what part of this is causing myth to not run fullscreen.
13:16<Chutt>the entire message was in the Reply-to: header
13:17<Chutt>etc, etc, etc
13:17<vektor>That's fucked up.
13:17<Chutt>goes on to say that he's a coder and willing to help
13:18lichenlichen_ Dec 06 13:18:10 <Chutt> like, yeah, whatever =)
13:18<mdz>Chutt: you're kidding
13:18<Chutt>not in the slightest
13:18<Chutt>mutt's not _that_ hard to use, is it?
13:18<mdz>I've seen entire messages in subject before, but I always assumed that was intentional (though stupid)
13:19<vektor>Well what probably happened is that he's using the mutt mode where you can edit the headers.
13:19<mdz>was there anything in the body at all, or was it empty?
13:19<vektor>And then he didn't leave the \r\n\r\n required between headers and body
13:19<Chutt>empty body
13:19<vektor>So mutt squeezed it all into the bottom header
13:19<vektor>which would be reply-to.
13:19<Chutt>it's just hilarious
13:19<mdz>yeah, that's likely
13:19<vektor>Jst didn't understand how email works.
13:20<Chutt>that made my day, back when i got it
13:20<mdz>except that's not the default in mutt
13:20<vektor>And was using a mutt power-user feature.
13:20<Chutt>mdz, so i ripped apart the TV class late last night
13:20<Chutt>made a separate one for playing and recording
13:21<Chutt>vektor, i'm going to be able to do live-tv over a network soon =)
13:22<vektor>Chutt: So, how will it work?
13:22<Chutt>central server
13:22<Chutt>frontends connect to it
13:22<vektor>Ok so the recorder will send data to the server app?
13:22<vektor>Over a socket?
13:22<Chutt>two sockets, most likely
13:22<Chutt>one for control messages, one for data
13:22<mdz>heh, I think that settings dialog does fit on the screen
13:22<vektor>So then I can turn tvtime into a mythtv front end easily.
13:22<Chutt>not quite that far yet
13:22<mdz>except it might look like it doesn't because there are no buttons at the bottom
13:22<Chutt>vektor, probably
13:22<mdz>and thus no way to save the settings
13:22<vektor>And then have a dedicated box to deinterlace.
13:23<vektor>I keep meaning to just go out and buy a new box just to be my video 'component'.
13:23<mdz>vektor: decode and deinterlace
13:23<vektor>mdz: Yep.
13:23<Chutt>mdz, it doesn't fit on the 1152x864 display on my p3-550 =)
13:23<Chutt>i don't think
13:23<vektor>Man solaris sucks.
13:23<mdz>really? I'm pretty sure it fit in 800x600 for me
13:23<Chutt>i just ran it briefly, though
13:23<vektor>Stupid restrictions on shm size.
13:23<Chutt>oh, the general settings display
13:24<Chutt>mdz, also, do you think the library's the best place for that?
13:24<mdz>Chutt: probably not the general one, no
13:24<mdz>well...depends on how you're going to break it down, then
13:25<mdz>there won't be a single frontend anymore, right?
13:25<Chutt>most of that's tv-specific
13:25<mdz>so it'll need to be shared somewhere
13:25<Chutt>there'll be as much of a frontend as there is currently
13:25<Chutt>they'll all talk to the central db server, though
13:25<vektor>Chutt: btw, we have most of an XDS decoder in tvtime now.
13:25<mdz>Xeros Data Systems
13:25<vektor>Chutt: It's a VBI data standard for north america.
13:26<vektor>Xtended Data Services.
13:26<vektor>So, channels tell me their name and stuff.
13:26<mdz>vektor: how Xtreme
13:26<vektor>And sometimes, how long theshow is, etc etc.
13:26<vektor>Also, program ratings.
13:26<mdz>vektor: that's a tunable parameter, btw (the solaris shm thing)
13:26<vektor>We've found it very hit-and-miss though.
13:26<vektor>mdz: I know, but you need to reboot to change it afaict.
13:26<vektor>Which kinda sucks.
13:27<vektor>I just got an Ultra 2 at school.
13:27<vektor>I don't know how long it will be mine for though.
13:27<vektor>And I wrote an image viewer app that uses xshm this morning. It's cool.
13:27<vektor>But I can't view images larger than like 352x480 ;-)
13:27<vektor>And at 352x480 I could only get 70fps.
13:27<vektor>So that's kinda sad :(
13:28<Chutt>they're slow machines
13:28<vektor>This is dual 200mhz :(
13:28<vektor>Very slow :(
13:28<vektor>Maybe my new supervisor can buy me a new machine ;-)
13:28* vektorkinda doubts it ;)
13:29<moegreen>is there any way to make the kde taskbar go away completely? I have a little gray line at the bottom left side of my screen
13:29<mdz>moegreen: you can make ti go away completely by not running KDE
13:29<moegreen>mdz: that's true
13:30<Chutt>if you set it to autohide, it should disappear completely
13:30<Chutt>at least, it does for me
13:30<vektor>Chutt: You wouldn't believe how much of a pain fullscreen is with some window managers etc.
13:30<vektor>Metacity from RH8 is especially pissy.
13:30<Chutt>oh, i believe it
13:30<vektor>I'm really disgusted.
13:30<Chutt>i'm just telling people not to use gnome, basically
13:30<moegreen>Chutt: that' show i have it set now, but it still shows a small line... is there another window manager that would be better for this?
13:31<vektor>Like, supporting fullscreen in tvtime means all kinds of code and crap.
13:31<Chutt>moegreen, i use kwin
13:31<mdz>vektor: metacity is gtk2/gnome2, yes? the evil stems from the core
13:31<vektor>moegreen: Something is wrong. You might want to ask in #kde or something...
13:31<vektor>mdz: Yes, and it only supports this new WM standard for fullscreen apps called EWMH.
13:31<vektor>And if your app doesn't support it, then it breaks.
13:32<vektor>However, with my sawfish/gnome2 setup, if I _use_ EWMH then it has some bugs and doesn't work right.
13:32<vektor>sawfish bugs, not tvtime bugs.
13:32<vektor>The EWMH fullscreen stuff is nice, but it would mean fixing every other window manager out there! :(
13:32<vektor>So this is all very crappy and sad.
13:33<vektor>Like, one problem is that every X app that supports 'fullscreen' does it differently. The other problem is that every window manager handles it differently.
13:33<vektor>Users don't understand how much of a pain in the ass this all is either.
13:33<vektor>Fix it for me, break it for you, etc.
13:35<lichen>im pretty exciting about the whole client/server mechanism, it would work great in our apt... in our server closet we have a breakout box for the cable's coax, build a fast box, couple 120gig drives, 3 or 4 tuners.. schedule everything over the web interface :)
13:35<lichen>good times :)
13:36<Chutt>wouldn't even have to use the web interface
13:36<Chutt>program guide should work as it does now
13:37<vektor>Chutt: Do you have a runtime settable configuration file?
13:37<vektor>Or wait, you just use the database for that, don't you.
13:37<Chutt>yeah, mysql
13:37<vektor>I dunno man. :)
13:37<Chutt>it'd be overkill for you
13:37<vektor>Well, in a sense
13:37<vektor>It would also make stuff easier.
13:37<vektor>I wish there was an easier database engine, I guess.
13:38<vektor>Anyway, some crazy guy from russia is coding up some config file saving stuff for tvtime.
13:38<vektor>That apparently preserves comments nicely.
13:38<vektor>But I'll believe it when I see it.
13:38<vektor>lichen: It's my deinterlacer app.
13:38<Chutt>well, you can preserve comments and stuff
13:38<Chutt>it's just generally not really worth it
13:38<vektor>you think?
13:38<vektor>i dunno.
13:39<vektor>i can't find any unix apps that do this stuff nicely
13:39<vektor>like, that don't make you have to quit the app, edit a config file, and run it again in order to just save your settings
13:39<Chutt>just have to associate the comment with the setting in your app
13:39<vektor>i dunno. i hate all of this.
13:40<Chutt>yeah, users suck.
13:40<vektor>i'd rather just have a 'registry'.
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13:41<mdz>vektor: hold your tongue
13:43<lichen>debian packages spoiled me, i should redo my myth box and do it all from sources... then maybe i would know why my stupid alsa drivers dont work
13:45<Universe>packages have you spoiled? gentoo's portage is better in my opinion
13:45<Universe>get more spoiled
13:45<mdz>Universe: this is not the place
13:45<vektor>Universe: Yeah you be quiet before we go psycho on your ass.
13:47<Chutt>mdz's just worried because debian's losing users to gentoo
13:48<vektor>Luckily, the technical proficiency of those users will only serve to lower the amount of stupid posts to debian-user :)
13:48<Chutt>i thought debian-user was 100% noise
13:52<lichen>yeah i tried debian for the first tiem ever when i setup the myth box, went buck wild with apt-get and i think it made me lose touch with my linux box
13:52<lichen>im used to slackware
13:53<vektor>I switched to debian from slackware when apt-get came out.
13:53<vektor>Aw yea.
13:54<vektor>I should have done it sooner but I was too stupid.
13:58<vektor>mdz: Do you know how to up the shm size in solaris?
13:58<vektor>Like it's some file in /kernel
14:07<vektor>ok done.
14:17<-- moegreenhas quit ()
14:20<mdz>vektor: /etc/system
14:20<vektor>mdz: yeah i did it and rebooted :)
14:20<vektor>mdz: thanks :)
14:22<lichen>hah holy shit i got my audio working
14:22<vektor>good job
14:22<lichen>i had to load snd-card-emu10k1 ... i was under the impression only snd-emu10k1 was required
14:24<tinsley>whats a good case for a box that goes in an entertainment center
14:24<tinsley>i've found some micro atx ones, but they're running around 200
14:25<lichen>i really am a freaking idiot NB. For drivers older than 0.9.0beta11 use:
14:25<lichen> modprobe snd-card-emu10k1
14:25<lichen>it was right there in plain english all long
14:25<lichen>i was just thinking "oh yeah i got the latest stable.. why would i need to worry about older drivers"
14:25<lichen>its a wonder i can work computers at all really
14:29<lichen>so you think now that hardware mjpeg support is supported i should switch back to my g400+rr instead of the bttv im currently using?
14:29<lichen>like i see the support and stuff for it, but to be honest, im not real sure what the implications of it are
14:30<lichen>is there an onboard encoder for mjpeg on the rainbow runner or what?
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14:33<Kuwanger>Is there any way to convert nuv to avi?
14:34<lichen>what avi?
14:34<Kuwanger>nuv is a file format, though apparently the bases format only uses one codec, while mythtv allows the use of a second (mpeg4).
14:35<Chutt>mythtv allows the use of pretty much any video codec in there
14:35<Kuwanger>avi is also a file format. I'd assume the work involved would be just copying the stream to fit the necessary format.
14:38<Universe>avi is a file extention
14:38<Universe>which has many formats
14:40<Kuwanger>"AVI stands for Audio Video Interleave. It is a special case
14:40<Kuwanger>of the RIFF (Resource Interchange File Format)."
14:41<Universe>avi just doesn't use one codec for compression
14:41<Universe>there are many
14:41<Kuwanger>No kidding.
14:41<Kuwanger>Because avi just contains streams.
14:41<Kuwanger>The streams contain information about if it's audio, video, etc, and what codec was used to compress it if any.
14:42<Kuwanger>If you use the mpeg4 codec and mp3 compression, then all the data is compressed in the nuv file. They should be transplantable in an avi framework specifying the data codecs used.
14:44<vektor>nuv is a simpler wrapper than AVI.
14:44<vektor>And the original nuppelvideo app used a slighly different format than mythtv's modified version.
14:44<Kuwanger>I wouldn't doubt it.
14:44lichenlichen_ Dec 06 14:45:01 <vektor> So you're right the work would probably be trivial, for the most part.
14:45lichenlichen_ Dec 06 14:45:14 <Universe> so if you want, I am sure you can create a codec from myths for a file convertion utility
14:45<mdz>lichen: the alsa package takes care of loading the right driver for you, you know...
14:45<Kuwanger>Universe: It wouldn't be a codec.
14:45<vektor>Kuwanger: I don't think ther'es any tool currently but if you're going to write one, I'd recommend looking at the ffmpeg avi code.
14:46<Universe>Kuwanger... I dont know much about video file formats and playback.. So I am talking out of my league here... But all the source for myth is avaiable so you could create a tool if you wanted ot to convert the files.
14:46<vektor>Or just see if you can modify ffmpeg. Shouldn't be too difficult.
14:47<Kuwanger>vektor: I'd rather make a module for transcode or something.
14:47<vektor>Kuwanger: I guess. :)
14:47<Kuwanger>vektor: I don't think transcode has a "copy" mode, though.
14:47<vektor>transcode is a bit too simple in its model. Also, I was a bit ticked when thomas copied libdvdread right into his tree even when I asked him not to.
14:47<vektor>But whatever.
14:48<vektor>It shouldn't be too difficult to do it using the transcode avi code if you think that's easier.
14:48<Kuwanger>Well, it's not so much for being "easier". It's for being more consistent.
14:48<Kuwanger>It'd be better to have a single point of not much code that used other modules to do the work of support codecs, muxers, etc.
14:49<Kuwanger>mplayer, xine, etc do the job, but then I don't think mplayer supports multiple output formats.
14:49<vektor>Yeah, I think we all want that but there are differing views on what it should look like.
14:49<vektor>Like, you could look at gstreamer too.
14:50<Kuwanger>And mplayer doesn't support nuv now (or maybe just the mythtv version doesn't appear to be nuv).
14:51<mdz>Kuwanger: mplayer certainly does support nuv
14:52<Kuwanger>Uh, okay..
14:53<Kuwanger>What version?
14:53<mdz>Kuwanger: it has for some time, read the documentation
14:53<mdz>or the nuppelvideo website
14:53<Kuwanger>Just because something worked in the past doesn't mean it works now.
14:53<mdz>NEW! The best and coolest Linux video player MPlayer (>=0.60) can play NuppelVideo files!
14:54<Kuwanger>Especially if using a pre-release.
14:54<mdz>Kuwanger: it does
14:54<Chutt>you're assuming that mythtv produces nuv files
14:54<Kuwanger>Chutt: It claims they're nuv files.
14:54<Chutt>err, no it doesn't.
14:54<Kuwanger>If it ends with nuv, it's not nuv?
14:54<mdz>look at the header of a nuppelvideo file, and that of a mythtv file
14:55<Chutt>the basic format's the same.
14:55<Universe>just because a file extention says nuv, doesn't mean its the same
14:55<Chutt>the info in the header says it's a different version
14:55<Kuwanger>Universe: If it's not, then the whole purpose of a nuv to hint at the file type is pointless.
14:55<mdz>this is not windows
14:55<Kuwanger>Windows isn't Windows.
14:56<Universe>so all exectable files in linux need to be rename wiht .exe now?
14:56<Kuwanger>Most, though not all, programs can function regardless of file extension if the data is proper.
14:56<Kuwanger>Universe: If that were the convention, yes. :)
14:56<Chutt>the .nuv header says that it's a MythTVVideo file, not a NuppelVideo file.
14:57<Chutt>well, in cvs
14:57<mdz>maybe one day nuppelvideo will rise from the dead and the formats can converge
14:57<Kuwanger>Chutt: And .mythtv would be an improper extension?
14:57<Chutt>previous versions just had a different version number
14:57<Chutt>kuwanger, yes, it would
14:57<Chutt>it's the same wrapper format
14:57<vektor>mdz: the nuppelvideo author was quite responsive when i based reetpvr on his code :)
14:57<Kuwanger>Chutt: Except it's not compatible..
14:57<vektor>but that was last year, don't know what he's doing now.
14:57<mdz>vektor: I'm ignoring the rest of that sentence because it had 'reet' in it
14:57<Chutt>that's like you bitching if you wrote an .avi player that only played one codec
14:57<vektor>mdz: loser :)
14:58<Chutt>and you got another .avi file that it didn't play becuase it was a different codec
14:58<mdz>"Version 0.60prealpha will come within the next 3 weeks" has been there for months
14:58<Kuwanger>Chutt: No, it's like me bitching that wmv files were extensioned asf.
14:58<vektor>Kuwanger: nuppelvideo files originally didn't support mpeg4, only his own hacked rtjpeg format.
14:58<Chutt>kuwanger, the file format is _identical_
14:58<vektor>Kuwanger: no, because mythtv does use the '.nuv' format.
14:58<Kuwanger>Chutt: So is wmv and asf.
14:58<Chutt>it's completely compatible with the .nuv stuff
14:58<vektor>but the data contained in it is not compatible with nuppelvideo's since nuppelvideo did not support mpeg4 or other stuff.
14:59<Kuwanger>Chutt: Different codecs, though.
14:59<mdz>Kuwanger: it's more like bitching that two text files aren't written in the same language
14:59<mdz>even though they both end in .txt
14:59<Kuwanger>Chutt: You can't necessarily play a wmv file if you can play an asf file, but the reverse is true.
14:59<vektor>Kuwanger: depends on the codec used inside
14:59<vektor>and the wrapper around that codec data
14:59<vektor>not all mpeg4 is created equal etc et cetc
15:00<Kuwanger>vektor: This is wrapper, not codec really. Or at least in this instance, support of a wrapper to use more codecs.
15:00<mdz>vektor: why is it that mpeg4 can't go in a system stream like mpeg-1 can?
15:00<lichen>i love this channel
15:00<vektor>lichen: it's fun :)
15:00<mdz>it gets really boring when people talk about mythtv
15:00<vektor>mdz: you mean like an mpeg2 program stream?
15:00<Kuwanger>mdz: So long as they're both human readible txt, I wouldn't bitch. :)
15:01<mdz>vektor: system stream or elementary stream
15:01<vektor>for mpeg4 they decided on a program stream version or whatever based on quicktime.
15:01<Chutt>mpeg4 is quicktime
15:01<Kuwanger>mdz: In that instance, lack of support is a fault of the player (moi).
15:01<vektor>i think mpeg4ip project had an implementation of that.
15:01<mdz>Kuwanger: sounds like a good analogy, then
15:01<vektor>Chutt: You mean the streaming format is quicktime?
15:01<Chutt>the official file format is quicktime
15:01<vektor>Yeah, that's what I meant.
15:02<Chutt>they changed some really minor stuff, but it's still quicktime =)
15:02<mdz>Kuwanger: if you try to play a mythtv file with a player which understands plain nuv, it should identify it as something that it does not understand and abort
15:02<mdz>s/understands/& only/
15:02<Kuwanger>mdz: Because mythtv nuv files are an extension. It's not simply equivalent to an nuv file.
15:03<Chutt>it is equivalent to a nuv file.
15:03<Kuwanger>Chutt: If it were equivalent, it'd play. :)
15:03<Chutt>you're such a dumbass
15:03<vektor>Kuwanger: What part don't you understand?
15:03<mdz>now he's done it
15:03<Chutt>the .nuv player in mplayer is hardcoded to one video codec
15:03<Chutt>and uncompressed audio
15:04<Kuwanger>If 99% of the format is the same and the use of another codec, outside of the original specifications, is introduced, it's not the same format.
15:04<mdz>which is all that .nuv could contain originally
15:04<Kuwanger>Because the original format did not support more than one codec.
15:04<Chutt>kuwanger, no, the original format did
15:04<Chutt>it just wasn't implemented.
15:04<Kuwanger>It's hence an extension. The fact that the general format of the wrapper is identical is irrelevant.
15:04<Kuwanger>Chutt: Did the original implementation include a MythTV header?
15:04<mdz>Kuwanger: text files used to contain only ASCII or EBCDIC or similar, but now they can have UTF-8! better change the extension
15:04<lichen>hey, kuwanger, i got an idea, you could go make your own pvr and video codecs
15:05<Chutt>kuwanger, it's the same header
15:05<Chutt>the data _in_ the header fields is changed
15:05<Chutt>but that doesn't make it a separate format.
15:05<Kuwanger>Is the header used to identify the file as nuv?
15:05<Chutt>there's additional stuff in the mythtv format
15:05<mdz>Kuwanger: of course
15:05<Chutt>but it's completely extraneous
15:06<mdz>Kuwanger: it also has a version number
15:06<Kuwanger>mplayer isn't complaining about an improper version.
15:06<Chutt>mplayer doesn't _check_ the version
15:06<mdz>Chutt: yes it does
15:06<mdz>I think it just decides it's not nuppelvideo though
15:06<vektor>Kuwanger: Why don't you just got fix mplayer?
15:06<vektor>I mean go fix it.
15:06<Kuwanger>vektor: Will do?
15:07<Chutt>mdz already modified mplayer to understand the mythtv extensions
15:07<vektor>Oh, well there you go.
15:07>Chutt< damnyou
15:07<Chutt>it's not complete, though
15:07<Chutt>so not ready for distribution, etc
15:08<mdz>quiet in here all of a sudden
15:09<vektor>kinda spooky
15:09<Chutt>so, should i just reject all mailing list posts by people that are subscribed but using a different email address? =)
15:09<Universe>ok... hmm... another question then...
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15:16<QSECOFR>er..somehow its trying to use /dev/video instead of /dev/video0...where can i change this?
15:16<mdz>QSECOFR: symlink /dev/video -> /dev/video0 :-)
15:16<Kuwanger>Seems pretty straightforward..
15:17<Chutt>it's set when you run setup
15:17<QSECOFR>dev/video is a directory with some other stuff..
15:17<QSECOFR>Chutt: thanks.
15:17<QSECOFR>i remembered setting it somewhere, but couldnt rememebr where...:)
15:18<Chutt>you could also just modify it in mysql
15:19<QSECOFR>ya..just thought that mst be where its stored...i'll do that
15:36lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:36:51 <mdz> lichen: there's a lot of stuff in your mythweb patch
15:37<lichen>sorry :(
15:37<Chutt>no worries =)
15:37lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:37:42 <mdz> lichen: I wasn't complaining
15:37lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:37:58 <lichen> oh okay :) ... i was thinking, why in the world would he be complaining about me working on it :)
15:38<lichen>i thought maybe i was supposed to submit all those changes differnetly or something, i have no idea :)
15:38lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:38:25 <mdz> lichen: nah
15:38lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:38:32 <Chutt> only minor thing would be i would've gzipped the patch before sending it to the list
15:38<Chutt>so i wouldn'tve had to manually approve it =)
15:38<Chutt>but, really, no worries
15:39<mdz>lichen: if you have a list of high-level descriptions of what changes you made, I'd be interested in seeing it
15:39<lichen>ohhhh oops, okay, ill keep that in mind for next time.. the only thing is i think this code is only gonna work on php4 since i had to use the $GLOBAL variable
15:39lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:39:39 <mdz> lichen: it is not a requirement
15:39<Chutt>not at all
15:39<mdz>and I don't set requirements anyway :-)
15:39lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:40:08 <Chutt> just would've made it a little smaller, is all
15:40<mdz>even Debian woody has php4
15:40<Chutt>but it's all good =)
15:40<lichen>i didn't really compile a list, but the biggest things are the different look of the main program listings and the actual functionality of the recordings menu
15:40lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:40:51 <mdz> lichen: I remember you talked about what you did in here the other day, but I wasn't really here
15:41<mdz>it's probably way back in my scrollback buffer and I'm lazy
15:41<lichen>i would let you connect to the machine and take a look at it, but its behind ip masqing, if you're on a machine than can do a PPTP VPN with MSCHAPv2 and MPPE128 ill let you vpn in and check it out :)
15:42<lichen>orrr... screenshots :)
15:42<mdz>there were too many Ms in those acronyms
15:42<mdz>and I don't have any microsoft
15:43<lichen>yeah i dont blame you, i just set it up so that i could vpn in from a windows machine without too much hassle
15:43<mdz>it looks like MPPE requires a kernel patch
15:43<mdz>forget that
15:44<mdz>ssh works fine for me
15:44<lichen>hah yeah... im bored, ill throw together some screenshots
15:46<mdz>why is PPP in the kernel, anyway?
15:49<lichen>got me, im still trying to figure out why zlib compression/decompression is in the 2.4.20 kernel
15:49<lichen>as an entirely new option on the main menu, and totally undocumented at that
15:51<lichen> check em out
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15:53lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:53:47 <mdz> lichen: it's there for PPP, zisofs, cramfs and probably a couple of other things
15:54<lichen>yeah i figured bsd compress used it
15:54<lichen>but there is still an option for bsd compress under the ppp options
15:54<mdz>I like the basic one
15:54lichenlichen_ Dec 06 15:55:01 <mdz> lichen: probably it uses one zlib for all of those, rather than including it in each place
15:55<lichen>yeah me too, i leave it on basic, but you can turn on and off the icons, the genre, the subtitle and the description seperately in the settings.php
15:58<lichen>you like the functionality of the recordings menu?
15:58<lichen>theres two other things im thinking of, something that will show the actual episode of all the shows that are schedule to be recorded for like the next week or so, and something that will show everything thats currently saved on the box along with how much space its taking up and stuff like that
16:00<mdz>that episode thing would be nice for mythfrontend
16:00<lichen>hah yeah i know, i yearn for something like that, but since im no qt master, ill do it in php
16:06<mdz>Qt's not too hard; I had never used it before working on mythtv
16:07<mdz>I don't think that Chutt had used it before he started writing mythtv either
16:07<lichen>i suppose i could learn without too much trouble, ive never done any GUI's for X or linux in general, but im decent at C/C++
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16:13<Chutt>hadn't touched it
16:15<mdz>and get has documentation
16:16<lichen>i dont know, i would rather use a dope ass lib lacking docs
16:16<mdz>unfortunately, it's not w00p-ass or def or something
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16:31<mdz>hey, he didn't give us a progress update on fixing mplayer
16:32<vektor>yeah what a loser
16:43<Universe>hey... can you make new a windows codec/driver/whatever to play nuv myth files? thanks...
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17:19<krux->can mythtv use fine tune offsets for the tuner?
17:19<Chutt>of course
17:19<krux->Chutt: where in the config file?
17:19<vektor>Although if you're using cable you likely don't need them.
17:19<Chutt>it's in the database
17:20<krux->vektor: unfortunately i do
17:20<krux->a slight offset
17:20<vektor>krux-: I'm curious. Do you have an ATI TV Wonder card?
17:20<krux->vektor: yep
17:20<vektor>Remove your tuner module.
17:20<vektor>And do 'modprobe tuner type=2'
17:20-!-moegreen [] has joined #mythtv
17:20<vektor>You might have to remove your bttv module too to do that.
17:21<krux->insmod tuner=2 failed
17:21<vektor>modprobe tuner type=2\
17:21<vektor>It's a parameter to the tuner module.
17:21<krux->modprobe: insmod tuner=2 failed
17:21<vektor>modprobe tuner type=2
17:21<krux->oh ok
17:21<vektor>and you must remove the tuner module first
17:21<krux->heh sorry
17:21<vektor>was I not clear?
17:21<krux->yeah i did that
17:22<vektor>Ok. So does it suddenly work better?
17:22<krux->does bttv need to be reinsmod?
17:22<vektor>Well if you removed it, then yes.
17:22<krux->ok, cos /dev/video wasn't available for a bit
17:23<vektor>Well, not if there's no driver then no, it wouldn't be.
17:23<krux->as sweet
17:23<krux->i meant
17:23<krux->thanks vektor
17:23<vektor>So, it works?
17:23<krux->vektor: yes it does
17:23<vektor>Ok great.
17:25<vektor>I just sent another 'hey can't we get this fixed?' email to Gerd.
17:26<vektor>You're like the third person today who has had this problem.
17:26<krux->i've always wondered why in linux my tv was bad, cos in windows i use dscaler and it was ok
17:27<krux->when trying tvtime did i find out about the offsets
17:27<vektor>How do you like tvtime?
17:27<krux->vektor: i like it, it's nice, very similar to dscaler, with the deinterlacing filters and all
17:28<krux->but the only thing that bugs me about xv, is it gets in front of every window in x11
17:29<vektor>It does?
17:29<vektor>What video card?
17:29<krux->you can't even minimize it, the frame would stay .. i think my card works best with xvidix which i use for mplayer
17:29<vektor>That sounds like a driver bug.
17:29<krux->ati radeon 7000
17:29<vektor>That's a driver bug.
17:30<vektor>krux-: You should join #livid
17:30<vektor>I'd liek to ask you some stuff but this is off topic for here :)
17:40<krux->question about /dev/audio permission. i've chowned /dev/audio to be, and added myself to group audio. but when starting mythtv, i get Cannot open DSP '', dying.
17:40<krux->Could not detect audio blocksize
17:40<krux->and it dies
17:41<lichen_>audio device cannot report buffer state accurately,
17:41<Chutt>you don't have the dsp device set in the database
17:41<lichen_>audio/video sync will be bad, continuing anyway
17:41<Chutt>lichen, because you're using alsa 0.5 =)
17:41<lichen_>ever since i installed alsa and got the modules working thats whati get whe ni run mythtv... and i sitll cant get any audio from it or from mpg123
17:41<lichen_>is that really the reason?
17:41<Chutt>for that error, at least
17:41<Chutt>i don't know why you're not getting sound
17:41<lichen_>oh... freaking a
17:42<krux->Chutt: i don't understand, running as root, it's ok
17:42<krux->but i don't think i'm getting any sound either, that's just the tuner's out i'm hearing
17:42<lichen_>its root:audio, but what are the permissions on it?
17:43<krux->crw-rw---- 1 root audio 14, 4 Oct 11 20:33 /dev/audio\
17:43<Chutt>you should be using /dev/dsp, anyway
17:43<Chutt>but, it's fine as root?
17:43<Chutt>can the user read the mysql settings files?
17:43<krux->Chutt: yes, i can get mythtv to run as root, but i don't think i'm getting sound anyway
17:44<krux->Chutt: i'm not sure if the user can read it, i changed /dev/dsp to /dev/audio cos i was getting the same problem, so i thought i didn't have /dev/dsp
17:44<Chutt>Cannot open DSP '', dying.
17:45<Chutt>that says it doesn't have anything set for the dsp device.
17:45<krux->btw, in the debian package, they didn't tell me what mythtv's password was for me to sudo as mythtv
17:46<-- Universehas quit ()
17:47<krux->ok, i've changed mythtv's password. now as mythtv, i get mythtv: cannot connect to X server
17:49<Chutt>you'd get that as any other user than what you're currently running X as.
17:49<krux->Chutt: except root
17:50<lichen_>yay i got it figured out, it just turned out to my inexperience of alsamixer
17:50<Chutt>of course
17:50<Chutt>x has permissions too.
17:50<krux->hold on, i'll relogin as mythtv and see how it goes
17:51<Chutt>you don't need to run everything as the 'mythtv' user
17:51<Chutt>i don't think
17:52<krux->a question about the sound, where do i set mythtv to grab the tuner's sound from? cos my card is the cheap ati wonder ve which has an audio out which i plug into my soundcard's line in
17:52<Chutt>that's set when you run setup
17:52<Chutt>it asks you
17:52<krux->so that's what /dev/dsp or whatever was?
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18:59<mdz_>silly krux, there is no password set for the mythtv user
19:00<mdz_>it's not required to run everything as the mythtv user, but the user needs to be in all of the appropriate groups (including the mythtv group)
19:00<mdz_>mythtv gets added to audio, video, etc. so it's easy
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19:16<mdz_>/dev/dsp is an evil linuxism
19:16<mdz_>it's completely redundant
19:17<mdz_>now I've gone and done it, I posted my mplayer patch to the list
19:17<mdz_>I'm hoping somebody can figure out the one last weird thing with it
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19:20<Chutt>what's the last weird thing?
19:21<mdz_>duplicate 1 frame(s)!!!
19:22<mdz_>seems to mean that it doesn't have as many frames as it thinks it should, and so it's duplicating one
19:23<mdz_>maybe the audio bitrate is slightly off from what it thinks it should be or something
19:23<mdz_>it's tough since the bitrate doesn't actually seem to be stored in the header :-P
19:24<mdz_>I use this:
19:24<mdz_> sh_audio->i_bps = ext.audio_channels
19:24<mdz_> * ext.audio_bits_per_sample * ext.audio_sample_rate /
19:24<mdz_> ext.audio_compression_ratio;
19:24<Chutt>should be pretty close, i think
19:25<mdz_>it gives that message about once per second of video I think
19:25<mdz_>though it varies
19:25<mdz_>22, 33, 44, 65 at the beginning
19:25<mdz_>then 309, 336, 365, 377, 424
19:26<mdz_>at vanying intervals in between, but consistently
19:26<mdz_>I did some googling, and when someone posted to the mplayer list saying that was happening, they said to use -ofps 23.976
19:26<mdz_>which is obviously not right here
19:27<mdz_>the mythtv video should be 29.976, right?
19:27<mdz_>or 29.97
19:27<mdz_>I use the value from the header
19:27<mdz_>[V] filefmt:13 fourcc:0x58564944 size:640x480 fps:29.97 ftime:=0.0334
19:28<Chutt>29.97 is right
19:30<mdz_>I'd try it with just video and no audio, and vice versa, but I don't see how to do it with mencoder
19:30<mdz_>I don't think it'll let me ignore one of the streams
19:30<mdz_>there are all these cryptic constants
19:31<Chutt>cryptic constants in a program that has a 3000 line main()?
19:31<Chutt>i don't believe that!
19:31<mdz_>mencoder.c is only 1300 :-)
19:33<mdz_>the audio frames are all either 432 bytes or 864
19:33<mdz_>I'd expect them to be all the same size
19:33<Chutt>depends on how many mp3 frames it takes to compress
19:33<Chutt>sometimes it needs another
19:35<mdz_>oh, the other thing I love about mplayer
19:35<mdz_>it uses 'bps' in some places to mean bits per second, and in others bytes per second
19:35<mdz_>that's my favorite
19:35<mdz_>audiocodec: framecopy (format=55 chans=2 rate=32000 bits=16 bps=11636 sample=4)
19:35<mdz_>that's 11636 bytes/sec
19:35<mdz_>or 93088 bits/sec
19:35<mdz_>the variable names are the same way
19:36<mdz_>in the course of a 1-hour recording, it duplicates 3384 frames
19:36<mdz_>the output file comes out more or less the same size
19:36<mdz_>and looks fine
19:36<mdz_>I don't think I would notice one duplicated frame per second
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19:37<mdz_>but I don't understand why it's happening
19:37<mdz_>does that bps sound about right?
19:37<mdz_>at the end of the encoding process, it spits out some statistics and they match up
19:38<mdz_>Audio stream: 93.088 kbit/s (11636 bps) size: 43154720 bytes 3708.725 secs
19:38<mdz_>and those are actually calculated
19:38<mdz_>it matches the value that I calculated for it
19:39<Chutt>what happens if you tell it something different?
19:40<mdz_>dunno, let's see
19:40<mdz_>that changes things
19:40<mdz_>I set it to 96000kbps
19:41<mdz_>and it has only duplicated 5 frames out of 30,000
19:41<mdz_>much better
19:42<mdz_>but still duplicating once in a while
19:42<mdz_>likewise with 98304
19:43<mdz_>scratch that, with 98304 it skips
19:43<Chutt>96000 is probably close to right
19:43<Edgan>mdz_: I saw a discussion late last night about you working on making mplayer play mythtv video. How much more work do you have left to get the basic audio/video and sync? And will it be rtjpeg, mpeg4, or both?
19:43<mdz_>but how am I supposed to calculate that?
19:44<Chutt>i dunno
19:44<mdz_>Edgan: the basic stuff is done, I posted the patch to the mailing list
19:44<Chutt>see, audio_samplerate is changing all the time
19:44<mdz_>ah, that's probably it then
19:44<Chutt>small changes, but
19:44<Chutt>can you update it as it goes?
19:44<Chutt>the audio sync frame has that data
19:44<mdz_>I doubt it
19:44<mdz_>yeah, I saw
19:44<Edgan>mdz_; Sweet, thanks.
19:44<mdz_>god help me
19:45<mdz_>yeah, 96000 is really close
19:45<mdz_>does lame really not let you set the bitrate?
19:45<Chutt>i dunno
19:45<Chutt>forget =)
19:46<mdz_>with bps=96000, it only duplicates 14 frames out of 107741
19:46<mdz_>0.01% error
19:46<Chutt>shouldn't be all that noticeable
19:46<mdz_>shouldn't be noticeable at all I should think
19:47<mdz_>but the problem of calculating it remains
19:47<mdz_>96000 is about right for 32000 samples/sec
19:48<mdz_>did I mention that the field is called i_bps, and is in bits per second, and then the UI displays it as "bps" and puts it in bytes per second?
19:48<mdz_>that confused the hell out of me when I was testing it
19:48<mdz_>I was sure I had screwed up the calculation somehow
19:50<mdz_>where does that come from?
19:51<Chutt>uncompressed audio?
19:51<mdz_>no, mp3 compressed
19:51<Chutt>huh, weird
19:51<Chutt>that should always be 11
19:52<mdz_>never mind, messed it up
19:52<mdz_>channels=2 bitspersample=16 samplerate=32000 audio_compression_ratio=11
19:52<Chutt>you _might_ be able to pull out the bps if you decode a frame or two with lame
19:52<mdz_>so if the ratio is really 11, the bps should be 1024000 / 11 which is that figure
19:53<mdz_>maybe there's a constant fudge factor
19:53<mdz_>do you have any stuff recorded at non-32000?
19:53<Chutt>headers, whatnot
19:54<Chutt>bitrates are only certain values, too
19:55<mdz_>maybe I could round to the nearest of these: 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128, 160, 192, 224, 256, 320
19:55<mdz_>(from lame(1))
19:58<Chutt>what's the numbers if you use a compression ratio of 11.025?
19:59<Chutt>hrm, nm
20:00<Chutt>it finds the nearest bitrate to that
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20:08<mdz_>they're not evenly spaced though
20:08<mdz_>I guess I'll need a table
20:20<Chutt>that's what lame does
20:20<Chutt>iterates through a table, picks the closest one
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20:34<Arelius>good day
20:36<Arelius>anyone around?
20:40<_shad>hrm. still haven't found a program to control brightness :(
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20:53<Hirendra>any idea how to convert a Myth recorded video into another formate and put it on a VCD ?
21:00<_shad>you can't get
21:00<_shad>that I know of
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22:32<Markie>i got mythvideo working! :^))))))
22:35<Markie>bbiab...gotta reboot to winblows..
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22:58<Arelius>can anyone help me get my WinTV card working??
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23:12<mirk_dt>Why does mythgame store all the settings for xmame in a structure rather than just specifying the args on the command line in the mythgame-settings.txt file?
23:13-!-Arelius_ [Arelius@] has joined #mythtv
23:13<Chutt>because all the args are set in the ui and stored in the database.
23:13<Arelius_>anyone have any suggestings for getting my wintv caurd working in suse linux
23:14<Chutt>go read the bttv docs that come with the kernel
23:14<mirk_dt>Chutt: ahh.. I you can have args on a per-game basis?
23:14<Arelius_>how could I get to those?
23:14<Chutt>mirk_dt, yup
23:14<vektor>Chutt: You're so nice to your users.
23:14<Chutt>vektor, yeah, but he's not a user =)
23:14<mirk_dt>Chutt: hmm. I think I need to make a small patch, then.
23:14<vektor>Chutt: Ahaha.
23:15<vektor>Arelius: I think Chutt's just annoyed that linux drivers are so crappy to deal with supporting.
23:15<vektor>Like, as in, supporting == answering users' questions.
23:15<Chutt>well, they're usually pretty easy
23:15<Arelius_>well, could you direct me to these bttv docs?
23:16<vektor> /usr/src/linux/Documentation/video4linux/bttv/
23:16<vektor>Is what he means.
23:16<Arelius_>ok thanks alot vektor
23:16<vektor>Hey anytime.
23:16<Arelius_>tis very helpful
23:17<vektor>Now you're making Chutt feel bad I bet.
23:17<Chutt>i need to add the 'no tech support' line to the faq
23:17<Arelius_>ohh nice, tis exactally what I needed
23:17<Chutt>of course it is
23:17<Chutt>and it's where you should've looked.
23:18<Arelius_>and how was I supposed to find it??
23:18<Chutt>"hey, i wonder how to get linux to work with this hardward.. lemme see, let's look at the kernel documentation"
23:19<vektor>The kernel does a pooooooor job of user support in my opinion.
23:19<Chutt>but it's a starting point
23:19<vektor>Like as many jewels as there are in linux/Documentation, I can never find anything useful in there.
23:19<vektor>And it's not marketed.
23:19<Chutt>then you go to google, and type in 'linux wintv setup'
23:19<Arelius_>I have
23:19<vektor>Basically there is no way for a user to even know that modprobe/insmod/etc even exist without being told or finding it.
23:19<vektor>It's stupid.
23:20<vektor>The whole system sucks, and application authors have to deal with it
23:20<Arelius_>and have given me nothing that I haven't already found...
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23:20<mirk_dt>Chutt: ok, I've got a question. I'm using xmame.x11 with Xvideo support. The fullscreen option is -fullscreen, but if you use DGA with xmame.x11, the fullscreen option is -x11-mode 1?
23:20<Arelius_>then again the bttv docs don't help either
23:20<Arelius_>well, thanks anyways
23:20<vektor>Arelius_: What's your problem?
23:20<Chutt>mirk_dt, dunno, i haven't looked into it much
23:20<vektor>Arelius_: Join #livid
23:20<mirk_dt>any idea how I can determine whether i'm in xvideo or dga mode?
23:20<vektor>I can talk to you about it there.
23:20<Arelius_>uhh... I just can''t get my S-Video input to display
23:20<Arelius_>to XawTV or any of the apps
23:20<Chutt>you have the rest of it working?
23:21<vektor>Arelius_: Can you try in tvtime? :)
23:21<Arelius_>not my compisote
23:21<vektor>Yeah it's my tv app.
23:21<vektor>So I can help a bit better re: what it says.
23:21<vektor>but whatever
23:21<vektor>Arelius_: what happens when you switch to the s-video input?
23:21<Arelius_>would it be in the standard distribution of SuSE
23:21<vektor>does it just show blue?
23:22<vektor>no it's a new app, we just released it a few months ago.
23:22<Arelius_>XawTV shows black
23:22<mdz_>are lame's kbps base 1000 or base 1024?
23:22<mdz_>looks like 1000
23:22<Chutt>mdz, i'm fairly sure its 1024
23:22<Chutt>but i could be wrong there
23:22<vektor>Arelius_: Black?
23:22<Chutt>could be grabbing rgb
23:22<vektor>Grabbing RGB?
23:23<Chutt>black would be no signal if it was grabbing in rgb mode
23:23<Chutt>as opposed to blue or green in yuv, no?
23:23<vektor>Ah, I see what you mean.
23:23<vektor>No, but I'll believe you. :)
23:23<vektor>0 in YUV != blue :)
23:23<Chutt>well, all 0s is green
23:23<Chutt>what about with the color planes flipped?
23:23<Chutt>ah, nm
23:23<Chutt>i'm dumb
23:24<vektor>Arelius_: So, it's just black?
23:24<Arelius_>do you have a link to setup??
23:24<Arelius_>I think I may have overlooked something
23:25<Chutt>does the tv input work.
23:25<vektor>'a link to setup'?
23:25<Arelius_>a webpage describing setup??
23:25<vektor>You shouldn't need to setup anything.
23:25<vektor>Does the TV input work?
23:25<Arelius_>the WinTV card, I think I may have Over looked something...
23:26<Arelius_>I am not sure
23:26<mdz_>Chutt: did you see that weird 3% thing in libmp3lame?
23:26<vektor>I don't think so..
23:26<vektor>It should jsut work.
23:26<Chutt>mdz, 3% thing?
23:26<vektor>Arelius_: Does the TV input work? You still never answered.
23:26<mdz_>excuse the paste
23:26<mdz_> /* find bitrate if user specify a compression ratio */
23:26<mdz_> if (gfp->VBR == vbr_off && gfp->compression_ratio > 0) {
23:26<mdz_> if (gfp->out_samplerate == 0)
23:26<mdz_> gfp->out_samplerate = map2MP3Frequency( (int)( 0.97 * gfp->in_samplerate ) ); /* round up with a margin of 3% */
23:27<Arelius_>O dp mpt belive so
23:27<Arelius_>I do not belive so
23:27<vektor>Arelius_: Oh.
23:27<vektor>Arelius_: Can you try with tvtime?
23:27<Chutt>mdz, huh, weird. out_samplerate should equal in_samplerate, i think
23:27<Chutt>so that shouldn't be getting touched
23:27<mdz_>map2mp3frequency rounds up to 8000, 11025, 12000, 16000...
23:28<mdz_>so it takes it down by 3% and then rounds it up
23:28<mdz_>makes no sense to me
23:28<Chutt>i know why
23:28<Chutt>well, if lame's doing the capturing
23:28<vektor>Arelius_: ok, join #livid
23:28<Chutt>it might be doing say, 11050 or whatnot
23:28<Chutt>just because all soundcards aren't exact
23:28<Chutt>they're just docking it down a little, and then rounding up
23:29<Chutt>just to get the closest real frequency to that
23:30<mdz_>why wouldn't they just snap to the closest frequency?
23:30<Chutt>they are
23:31<Chutt>just a different way of doing it
23:32<mdz_>I'm trying to figure out the minimum I need to steal from liblame to get this right
23:34<Chutt>the FindNearestBitrate function
23:34<Chutt>apply that to your calculated value
23:34<mdz_>that's what I've done
23:34<Chutt>should work, then
23:35<mdz_>I'm just using the sample rate in the header though
23:35<Chutt>that's fine
23:35<mdz_>as long as you're always giving it one that exactly matches one in lame's table, should be fine
23:35<Chutt>the FindNearestBitrate function gets the closest entry to what's in the table
23:35<mdz_>for the bitrate
23:35<Markie>is there any qt poster that shows all the classes and the inheritance?
23:35<mdz_>there is a separate thing for the sample rate
23:35<mdz_>the map2MP3Frequency
23:36<Markie> it..
23:36<mdz_>I'm going to ignore that though, definitely doesn't matter for myth
23:36<mdz_>nearestBitrate is unnecessarily obscure
23:36<mdz_>like this:
23:36<mdz_> if ((Max(bitrate, bitrate_table[b+1])) != bitrate) {
23:37<mdz_>that could be replaced with a greater-than comparison
23:37<Chutt>is it?
23:37<Chutt>i might be looking at an old version
23:37<mdz_>if (bitrate > bitrate_table[b+1])
23:37<Chutt>yah, it's different than that =)
23:38<mdz_>I'm looking at 3.93
23:38<Chutt>this is 3.91, iirc
23:38<Chutt>doesn't matter, though =)
23:43<mdz_>looks like its kbps are 1000
23:43<mdz_>with 1024 it's off, with 1000 it's right on now
23:43<Chutt>well, cool.
23:43<mdz_>nice, this works much better now
23:57<mdz_>Chutt: so for the keyboard navigation stuff for settings, where should the keypressevent handler go?
23:57<mdz_>does it go on the bottom level widgets, or on the dialogs?
23:57<Chutt>on the widgets
23:57<Chutt>need to make a class inherit the widgets, then override their key press event handler, most likely
23:57<mdz_>did we decide whether left/right or up/down was preferable?
23:58<Chutt>up/down to move
23:58<Chutt>unless it's a combo box that's open