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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-10

00:00<Chutt>i think it might be only removing them if there's a conflict
00:00<Chutt>then it'll just drop em automatically
00:00<Chutt>maybe not
00:01<mdz_>I seem to remember it previously skipping things it had already recorded, when there was no conflict
00:01<mdz_>prunelist looks to me like it should drop it
00:01<mdz_>assuming it gets called
00:02<Chutt>are they singlerecords?
00:02<mdz_>no, channel records
00:03<Chutt>unless that query in findinoldrecordings doesn't work right
00:04<mdz_>I emailed you the info from the db if you're curious
00:04<Chutt>yeah, strange
00:05<Chutt>want to try debugging it?
00:05<mdz_>hmm...let me see if I have a non-broken tree around that I could use
00:05<mdz_>I can't update that box to HEAD
00:06<Chutt>no =)
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00:10<brtb>fun with netsplits
00:10<Chutt>yea yea, lilo's a dumbass, film at 11
00:10<bigguy>leave it to lilo
00:11<bigguy><dvlspawn> i love you lilo..
00:11<bigguy><dvlspawn> i want to sex0r your EU hub
00:11<brtb>i've done much worse, lol... especially today when my DNS was out... of course dalnet wins the netsplit award
00:25<Chutt>time to do my monthly theora cvs update
00:26<Chutt>wow, imagine that, no changed files
00:26<bigguy>theora is the vorbis teams answer to divx right?\
00:26<Chutt>well, it's some other company's codec
00:26<Chutt>but yeah, pretty much
00:27<bigguy>or something
00:27<bigguy>I read about it a while back
00:27<mdz_>Chutt: are you on the mailing list?
00:27<bigguy>don't imagine it'll be very useful anytime soon
00:27<Chutt>but the list looks pretty dead, from the archives
00:27<mdz_>it comes and goes
00:28<Chutt>the cvs hasn't changed a single bit since the first alpha release
00:29<Chutt>the webpage says alpha 2 was supposed to be out last week
00:29<Chutt>nice closed development, if so
00:43<brtb>wonder how they got the ATI card to work with mythtv? =]
00:43<brtb>oh, it's a bttv-based
00:44<Chutt>just going through my referrer log
00:44<brtb>front page says All-in-Wonder 7500 though. lol
00:47<Chutt>oh, that's nice, someone's squatting on
00:52<tinsley>whats this freeplaytv
00:53<Chutt>someone's website
00:54<tinsley>dvd recording, mmmm
00:54<tinsley>ripping of dvds would be *awesome*
00:55<Chutt>i don't want dvd ripping in mythtv
00:55<bigguy>there is alread other apps out there for dvd ripping
00:55<Chutt>bitexact copies, perhaps
00:55<bigguy>you could just add it to the menu
00:56<knight__>you guys should make a section on the website for a collection of menu configs
00:56<knight__>for use with user contributed third party tools
00:56<Chutt>but it's so easy to modify the menu
00:57<knight__>indeed it is
00:57<knight__>but it would be even easier
00:57<Chutt>naw, not really
00:57<Chutt>take longer to browse to what you want and download it, then add it to the file
00:57<Chutt>than it would to just edit the file in the first place
00:57<knight__>i mean with scripts, etc
00:57<knight__>i.e. additional screens that show dvd ripping options, for example
00:58<knight__>that gets passed to a script that actually makes it happen, etc
00:58<tinsley>how about auto-get menus from the menu
00:58<knight__>yeah that would be neat too
00:58<knight__>just have it wget the appropriate menu
00:58<tinsley>pretty much
00:58<Chutt>people bitch if you have stuff like that, though
00:59<Chutt>"why is this using the net? i didn't tell it it could use the net"
00:59<Chutt>yeah, really
00:59<knight__>have it disabled by default
00:59<knight__>besides, it already uses xmltv which uses the net :P
00:59<tinsley>have it option to auto-get rootkit
00:59<Chutt>but, i had people complaining about auto-hitting freedb for cd information in an older project of mine
00:59<knight__>and also load it up with tons of spyware
01:00<Chutt>actually, people have asked for spyware =)
01:00<tinsley>who, m$
01:00<Chutt>automatic recommendations would require a central server that kept track of what people watch
01:00<knight__>haha why? so they can feel more at ease to make it feel like a winblows box?
01:01<tinsley>how about an irc bot that autojoins some romanian irc server
01:01<knight__>useful spyware that doesnt cause me grief is ok in my book
01:01<bigguy>"Your a Gay Pregnant Nazi Extremeist Male"
01:02<Chutt>so the guy that registered is just a normal domain squatter
01:03<tinsley>how much is he selling it for
01:04<Chutt>it's not on his list of domains for sale
01:04<moegreen>Record created on 2002/12/6
01:04<tinsley>ahh, waiting for the price to go up
01:05<Chutt>i should've just not been cheap when i registered the domain =)
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01:40<knight__>is there anyway to change live tv channels by using the EPG?
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01:44<Chutt>yeah, just hit m to exit the epg
01:46<Chutt>that might be different in 0.7, though
01:52<knight__>is there a key that loads the epg from mythtv?
01:53<knight__>oh m loads it
01:53<knight__>is there a page on the website that shows all the keys?
01:59<Chutt>there's keys.txt that comes with the source
01:59<knight__>oh ok
02:02<knight__>so mythtv needs to be running in order for a recording to occur, correct?
02:03<Chutt>that'll change in 0.8, though
02:03<knight__>so what if the record time has been missed?
02:03<knight__>by like 3 minutes... will the record be unmarked?
02:03<knight__>i.e. recording set for an 11pm show, but i load mythfrontend at 11:03
02:04<Chutt>oh, like you didn't have mythfrontend running, then started it 3 minutes in?
02:04<Chutt>it'll start recording then
02:04<knight__>oh nice
02:09<knight__>hmm, any suggestions on a good remote (that utilizes most keys) to use with my universal remote?
02:09<knight__>i know i should use a VCR one, since my remote wont let me use the RECORD button for DVD, SAT, etc
02:49<knight__>what about cards like the DC10+ that has MJPEG hardware encoding? can mythtv let the card do native MJPEG and convert realtime to MPEG4?
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04:33<matr1x>what was the problem you had yesterday knight_
04:33<matr1x>figured it out i assume
04:36<knight__>yeah i did
04:37<knight__>not entirely sure actually
04:39<matr1x>you dont know what it was?
04:41<knight__>no i forgot. i've had so many problems since i dont remember which it was
04:45<knight__>mythmusic has been running for like 4 hours pulling the ID3 tags out of all my mp3s
04:52<Chutt>most of that is it calculating song length
05:02<Chutt>i should just turn that off, because everyone complains about that =)
05:05<matr1x>youd think it could get the length when theyre played
05:06<matr1x>how many mp3s you got on there anyways knight_
05:06<Chutt>well, after they're played
05:11<matr1x>either way
05:11<knight_>matr1x, quite a bit
05:11<knight_>matr1x, atleast 40gb
05:11<matr1x>hard core
05:11<knight_>not really
05:12<matr1x>lot of crap?
05:12<knight_>i hardly spend time wiht my mp3
05:12<matr1x>or is it all stuff you like
05:12<knight_>most i hardly even listen to anymore
05:12<matr1x>heh i only get what i like
05:12<knight_>some i never listened to
05:12<knight_>i use to, until my friends came over and just started downloading shit
05:12<knight_>so i have to go through a fix all the id3s
05:14<matr1x>shaw's news server sucks ass
05:14<matr1x>i swear
05:15<knight__>Chutt, any suggestions on how I should start to integrate a full interface in mythtv for cd burning recorded shows and music?
05:15<knight__>matr1x, not worse than earthlink's
05:15<matr1x>michael jackson is one weird freak
05:15<matr1x>heh knight_ did you ever finish that cataloguing program?
05:16<knight__>matr1x, still working on it. i'm going to be redesigning the core classes and then some database mods
05:16<knight__>also, i need to port my php xml-rpc interfaces to java
05:18<matr1x>java pisses me off
05:18<matr1x>i dont know why
05:18<knight__>the main reason i'm using java on the server side is it's much more scalable in the long run
05:18<knight__>on the client side, because i want to support windows, mac os, AND unix
05:19<matr1x>fair enough
05:19<knight__>there's a lot of people i know how have massive video collections on solaris/linux etc
05:19<matr1x>use .NET hahah
05:19<knight__>oh my
05:21<matr1x>i had a dream that seven eleven was selling little beer fridges for like 50 bucks each
05:21<matr1x>and i was like, dude im gonna buy a couple
05:22<matr1x>i wonder what that dream represents
05:26<matr1x>i should re-learn my french
05:26<matr1x>ive forgotten it all
05:32<knight__>me too
05:38<knight__><knight__> Chutt, any suggestions on how I should start to integrate a full interface in mythtv for cd burning recorded shows and music?
05:38<knight__>just in case you didnt see it Chutt
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05:51<matr1x>im sure he did
05:52<matr1x>would one really need an interface? just add a "burn to disc" button somewhere
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05:56<knight_>i want an interface
05:56<knight_>allowing the user to pick files, etc
05:57<knight_>choose what type of burn it is, and allow it to print out cd labels
05:57<knight_>automatic cd label image downloading, etc.
05:57<knight_>most of this i can script, but i'd like the options and choices to be menuized
05:57<knight_>my goal here is one fluid interface
05:57<knight_>like mythtv already is basically
06:00<knight__>haha oh thats sad. mythmusic crashed after all those hours of checking the songs
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06:06<matr1x>hard to believe that crocodile dundee is 63 years old
06:06<matr1x>knight, stop being so negative. it only crashed because you dont show it love
06:06<matr1x>you must love your media programs.
06:06<matr1x>water them every day
06:06<matr1x>sing them songs
06:06<matr1x>give them fertilizer and sunlight
06:07<matr1x>then they will grow
06:07<matr1x>how does mythtv save filenames anyways.
06:07<matr1x>anything burned would have to be converted wouldn't it?
06:08<matr1x>make a flow chart or something
06:26<knight_>matr1x, hahaha
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06:27<knight_>yeah, they'd have to be recompressed
06:27<knight_>not hard though.
06:27<knight_>i'd add a queue menu to recompress items too
06:27<knight_>which should be really simple
07:08<knight__>does mythmusic scan the music tree and check each file _every_ time its run? because this is rediculous
07:08<knight__>4-5 hours each time
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09:25<sideshow>anybody here gotten a Matrox G400 MAX to work with TV-out?
09:25<sideshow>is this: really the best document to follow for it?
09:25<sideshow>I've got myth working just fine on my monitor (except for the remote), I just need to transfer it to the TV now
09:30<sideshow>the remote issue I have is that my remote that came with the Hauppage WinTV card works by default with my TV (Philips-Magnavox).
09:31<sideshow>so pressing up on the remote registers on the linux box and the TV, not really what I want.... this may take a bit to work around
09:31<vektor>The G400 TV out is very cool.
09:32<vektor>The method described in that doc is unoptimal for many reasons.
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09:32<sideshow>it's not a Marvel, just a G400 dualhead with the little dongle that converts the VGA connector to composite/s-video
09:32<vektor>Yes I know.
09:32<vektor>I have one too.
09:33<sideshow>do you have a little HOWTO on this then? :)
09:33<vektor>You should consider doing an output driver for mythtv to use Ville Syrj\xE4l\xE4's DirectFB driver.
09:33<lichen>sideshow, same one i got
09:33<vektor>You can write raw Y'CbCr frames straight to the video encoder.
09:33<vektor>I have some docs and code about this here:
09:34<lichen>and do scaling in software?
09:34<vektor>But it's sort of in active development (the DirectFB stuff that is).
09:34<vektor>Well, that's unclear at this point.
09:34<vektor>I mean, you can definitely set the G400 TV out to scaling for you, in Windows this works.
09:34<lichen>so the general consensus with that card is then: you still cant do what it is we want to do with myth :)
09:34<vektor>Like, the TV out chip, the 'maven', had to be reverse engineered.
09:34<sideshow>yeah, I've used it in Windows
09:34<vektor>Matrox never gave out docs.
09:35<lichen>yeah thats what i heard
09:35<vektor>So, everything we have in linux is a bit of a hack.
09:35<vektor>However, there is some leaked source code around.
09:35<vektor>And that's been helping recent efforts, although you didn't hear that from me.
09:35<lichen>its alright, i dont work for matrox :)
09:35<vektor>So, if you're up for some coding, you can have alot of fun with the G400 TV out.
09:35<lichen>besides, if anything it would HELP G400 sales
09:35<lichen>considering people would be like "oooh i can buy these for my linux machine now too"
09:35<vektor>G400 is obsolete.
09:35<sideshow>thanks vektor, I'll check that out when I get home tonight...
09:35<lichen>well okay, G series
09:36<vektor>And our code doesn't work for G450/550.
09:36<vektor>Which you can purchase.
09:36<vektor>sideshow: Well, check out that link.
09:36<vektor>sideshow: And try out 'dfbtv'.
09:36<vektor>sideshow: Tell me what you think.
09:36<lichen>im using the Radeon 7000 dualhead in this machine
09:36<lichen>er thats ATI though isnt' it
09:36<lichen>nevermind :)
09:36<sideshow>I'm stuck at work all day, so I'll give it shot tonight when I get home
09:37<vektor>lichen: anyway, also the maven chip is more powerful than Matrox wants you to know.
09:37<vektor>since they sell alot of high-end video framebuffer cards.
09:37<vektor>like the rt2500 series etc.
09:37<lichen>hah oh really? so they just use its cause its cheaper for htem to use the same chip and then limit it?
09:37<vektor>so giving out docs would mean that you could use the g550 cards as a cheap video framebuffer.
09:37<vektor>i don't think it's the same chip.
09:37<vektor>but i think this is part of their reasoning.
09:38<vektor>like, that's part of the reason why i love my g400 tv out.
09:38<vektor>it's very high quality, well, for s-video only though :(
09:38<vektor>but still
09:38<lichen>you seem ot have a pretty good grasp of all this, and im not any video coder.... but whats currently out there.. is it possible to use any of the millenium g400 dualhead stuff with mythtv? like fullscreen video and all that?
09:38<vektor>i dunno.
09:39<lichen>like right now im using the standard matrox drivers right off their site for X, i cloned the desktop on to both heads, so i get the myth menus and all that, but njo full screen video
09:39<vektor>see, like, using X for doing tv out to me just seems wrong
09:39<vektor>since there's no api for talking to the tv encoder chip
09:39<vektor>so i just ignore anything like that
09:39<vektor>since it will never be the quality i want
09:41<sideshow>vektor: so did you have to mess with myth much to get it to work?
09:41<lichen>well unfortunately thats what myth uses for the time being :-/
09:42<vektor>sideshow: i'm not using mythtv
09:42<sideshow>looks like I get a little project then! :)
09:42<lichen>yeha vektor talsk all this stuff about how he has wonderful svideo out.. then he breaks it to you "im not using myth"
09:42<vektor>which is why i'm suggesting you write a driver :)
09:42<vektor>sorry i only have so much time :)
09:44<lichen>oh well... time to go install soem switches :(
09:44<lichen>im such a little network monkey
09:44<lichen>i need a better job
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11:40<Chutt>mdz, i get a 'setValue(' without an endline everytime i start up stuff, btw
11:49<mdz>Chutt: stuff being recording?
11:49<mdz>or the dialogs?
11:50<Chutt>the programs
11:50<Chutt>and stuff being recorded
11:51<Chutt>when something records and when i go to the record settings
11:53<mdz>I don't see how that could happen
11:54<mdz>it's not intermixed with any other output?
11:55<Chutt>looks like the record profile didn't take
11:55<Chutt>or it didn't use it
11:55<mdz>right now it's hardcoded to use profile 1
11:55<Chutt>i know
11:56<Chutt>with my settings, a test recording i did last night should be like 700 MB
11:56<Chutt>it's 2.2GB =)
11:56<mdz>it should print a bunch of setValue()s for all of the settings when it starts to record
11:56<mdz>I'd be interested to see what that says
11:56<Chutt>it doesn't
11:56<Chutt>just 'setValue('
11:57<Chutt>i am using gcc 3.2, btw
11:59<mdz>Chutt: you're joking
11:59<mdz>next you'll tell me you're running Mandrake 9
11:59<Chutt>well, i'm using cvs kde debs
12:00<Chutt>they use 3.2
12:00<mdz>looks like it's not my bug then
12:00<mdz>heh...#171561: g++-3.2: iostream does not work
12:00<Chutt>i think it may be related to the use of cerr and a QString::null value
12:00<mdz>that bug is bogus, but the title is funny
12:01<mdz>maybe I should just rip out all the cerr stuff, it seems to work
12:01<Chutt>i'll try to figure out why it didn't get the settings for the recording
12:02<Chutt>soon as i manage to wake up more
12:06<mdz>probably the same bug if it stops there
12:07<mdz>I should at least skip it if the name is null; it isn't very useful in that case anyway
12:11<mdz>hell, there's already a gcc 3.3
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12:22<Chutt>you have too much junk in the .h files :p
12:22<Chutt>what the hell's that guy asking about nasm for
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12:33<Chutt>ok, something really weird is going on
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12:52* bigguyis [away -={ Got business to attend to in town }=- ]
12:52* bigguyis away: business
12:54<Chutt>mdz, the place where it sets the scalebitrate value in the recorder does an 'isNull()' check.. that right?
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13:00<Chutt>mdz, it didn't record with the proper settings because it was using a profile id of -1
13:00<Chutt>so, something different
13:01<xmltok>anybody build a mythtv machine out of one of those via epia's?
13:02<Chutt>mean those overpriced really slow machines?
13:02<xmltok>yeah those
13:03<Chutt>you need a decent cpu to be able to encode video in real time.
13:04<xmltok>hurr thats what i figured
13:34<lichen>i got the movies.php deal working, im not really happy with it though.. like right now you can select how many days you want to look ahead and views all the movies, and a "movie" is a program longer than 70 minutes and whose category is something that sounds like it could be a movie, but this also includes "Musicals" like MTV videos and crap like that... plus with the way i had to query the database, its all sorted by channel first, and then by start
13:34<lichen>so the main hurdles are having a better way to detect whats actually a movie, and sorting each days listings by program starttime, neither of which is terribly easy
13:40<Universe>isn't there a tag in the database for what it is?
13:41<lichen>yeah a category tag, but that only says stuff like "musical" "comedy" "news" "talk" and stuff like musical and comedy can be either a show or a movie
13:44<Universe>you can do checks
13:44<Universe>if over 70 mins and != to musical
13:44<Universe>news, talk, etc
13:45<lichen>well there is a function that does :) but like i said stuff like comedy, musical and s tuff like that can actually be both
13:45<mdz>Chutt: yeah, that isNull() should be correct; the way boolean settings work right now is more or less null vs. non-null
13:45<lichen>the only way i can think of is maybe making a list of keywords to exclude programs with
13:45<Universe>but who watches musical movies?
13:45<mdz>I should probably review that stuff, it didn't get any testing until I added scalebitrate
13:46<lichen>universe... haha yeah thats my reasoning too
13:46<mdz>Chutt: using a profile id of -1, meaning that it was actually executing insert statements with -1?
13:46<mdz>Chutt: the id stays -1 until it is saved to the database, at which point it gets set to the autoincrement value
13:50<Chutt>curRecording has a profile id of -1
13:50<Chutt>when it was sent to the TV class
13:51<Chutt>ya know
13:51<Chutt>maybe i didn't merge in your scheduler changes =)
13:52<Chutt>yeah, i didn't
13:52<Chutt>that's why
13:55<mdz>didn't merge, as in blew them away in CVS? :-)
14:01<mdz>oh, right, that file moved. crap
14:01<Chutt>fixed now
14:02<mdz>the programinfo stuff is ok, though, right?
14:03<Chutt>i think everything was ok except the scheduler changes
14:03<lichen>does anyone see the benefit of this: Also let you have a time slot and/or single recording coexiste with a "always
14:03<lichen>record on this channel" on different channels.
14:03<Chutt>that other patch?
14:03<Chutt>it looked fairly correct
14:04<lichen>yeah im about to merge it in, im trying to think of why that would be necessary though, to have a timeslot or single recording coexist for the same program thats being always recorded?
14:04<Universe>so is cvs working with gcc 3.2 now?
14:04<Chutt>well, i dunno
14:04<Chutt>universe, yeah
14:04<Universe>was thinking about grabbing it to test the changes
14:04<Chutt>but lots of other stuff isn't =)
14:04<Chutt>i'm going to write an email to the list about what is and isn't broken later
14:05<Universe>so I guess I should wait?
14:07<lichen>oh wait, i got it, its if a show is being always recorded on a channel, and you also want to single record the same show on another channel
14:07<Chutt>well, 'slong as you know some stuff's broken
14:07<Chutt>but live-tv works, and recording stuff works, and playback of recordings works
14:07<Chutt>delete doesn't
14:07<Chutt>watching what you're recording doesn't
14:07<Chutt>and, that's about it, i think
14:07<Chutt>that's all local, one machine stuff
14:08<Chutt>live-tv works remotely
14:08<Chutt>the ui works remotely
14:08<Universe>live-tv, remotely!
14:08<Chutt>but nothing else does, yet
14:12<Universe>very cool tho
14:18<mdz>Chutt: the tv.cpp changes got lost too? no wonder nothing worked for anyone :-)
14:18<Chutt>no, the tv.cpp changes are in
14:18<mdz>oh, no they didn't. you added a check
14:19<Chutt>yeah, just in case
14:20<mdz>how do you think the live tv case should work? using profile #1 is suboptimal
14:20<Chutt>probably should be a live-tv default profile
14:20<mdz>a setting for which profile to use for live-tv?
14:20<mdz>or create one called "live tv" and always use that?
14:21<Chutt>i dunno
14:21<Chutt>having a separate profile is more work for the user, but makes more sense
14:25<Universe>us users love more work, Chutt...
14:26<mdz>well, the profile could be created so that it always exists
14:26<mdz>and just provide a place to change the settings for live tv
14:27<mdz>there's a similar situation with the default settings for a scheduled recording
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14:38<Chutt>so, have 2 default profiles created automatically
14:38<Chutt>live tv, and recordings
14:38<mdz>yep, I like that best so far
14:39<mdz>I'm trying to think if I would ever want to switch between two existing profiles for the default or for live tv
14:39<Chutt>sorry, i was working on the network stuff =)
14:39<Chutt>wanted to get that done before thinking about the profile stuff
14:39<mdz>that's the only thing that gets more difficult in that setup
14:39<Chutt>they're just defaults
14:39<Chutt>once the 'change to a different profile' gets setup, people can just use that
14:39<mdz>for recordings, yeah
14:40<Chutt>how often do you think people would change the live-tv settings?
14:40<Chutt>like, i don't ever touch that, now
14:40<mdz>dunno, I don't watch live tv ever
14:41<mdz>yeah, that makes most sense
14:41<mdz>easy to implement too
14:41<mdz>add a couple of checks to ignore null values loaded from the database
14:41<mdz>and create two empty profiles
14:41<mdz>then it'll use the hardcoded defaults until they're edited, and then it'll save everything
14:42<Chutt>so they'll show up in the browser?
14:42<mdz>yeah, they would
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14:43<Chutt>hey, got a download count of the .debs?
14:57<moegreen>Chutt: are you still around?
15:00<moegreen>hey, I was messing around with an on screen display and I can't seem to get the osd-big.png graphic to go all the way across the bottom of the screen. I tried it with a width of both 640 and 650, there is a gap on the right hand side. Also, is there a compelling reason to have a seperate line for the 'episode' name? I was thinking putting the episode name in quotes if there is data in it. It seems to be a better use of screen
15:01<Chutt>the width of the osd is compensating for how much overscan my tv does, really
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15:03<Chutt>so it starts 5% into the picture, and ends 5% of the width before the picture ends
15:03<moegreen>int HorizScanPercentage= ??
15:04<Chutt>that only affects the output
15:04<Chutt>of the video
15:04<Chutt>the osd is hardcoded to 5%
15:04<moegreen>ok...for this particular graphic it wouldn't matter much if the background was chopped - should I just make it even bigger than 650?
15:05<Chutt>'sec, lemme see what it'll do
15:06<Chutt>ok, yeah, that should work
15:06<Chutt>i think
15:06<moegreen>i'll give it a shot...
15:07<moegreen>And the episode in quotes?
15:07<Chutt>i dunno
15:07<Chutt>that'd require some mods to the osd class
15:08<moegreen>yeah, I was looking through and saw where ... I just didn't know if there was any particular reason as to why it would need it's own line
15:08<Chutt>i just like it on its own line, is all
15:09<Chutt>feel free to modify stuff, 'long as it's able to do the old behavior as well =)
15:09<nevertheless>Chutt: are you still willing to apply the 'quit' patch?
15:09<Chutt>nevertheless, yeah, but i thought you told me not to
15:09<Chutt>you were going to rewrite part of it or something
15:10<nevertheless>yepp, i would suggest you maybe just apply the quit and 'halt' stuff, without the 'nvram' stuff
15:10<nevertheless>how about that?
15:10<nevertheless>because 'alt-f4' still doesn't work with fluxbox and so its quite hard to work with it
15:11<Chutt>can you cut the parts out you don't want, then resend me the rest?
15:11<nevertheless>yes noprob
15:11<moegreen>Chutt: I made it's width 800 and it works ... thanks
15:13<Chutt>moegreen, heh, np
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16:06<Universe>hmm... the new theme link on the website ( doesn't exist
16:06<Chutt>it did when i put it up there
16:06<Universe>guess he was getting too many hits?
16:06<mnkboy>Universe: I had some problems with the link to - i just tried a few times and it works
16:06<mnkboy>err worked
16:07<Chutt>got a database error
16:07<Chutt>just now
16:07<Universe>I am just getting error page cannot be displayed, no db error
16:33<nevertheless>Chutt: the quit patch is out, everything necessary is explained in the e.mail
16:36<lichen>freaking crontab on my box woke me up this morning
16:36<lichen>to drive crunching
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19:05<mdz_>odd, I have some recordings which seem to have recorded the wrong channel
19:29<_shad>not good :)
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20:23<lichen_>hows cvs lately? i haven't updated in a while, is it a good time?
20:29<Universe>I was told I could if I wanted to... Some stuff is broken tho
20:42-!-m0tion [] has joined #mythtv
20:45<m0tion>what hardware is generally used as an IR reciever?
20:45<m0tion>or, what hardware could be recommended?
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20:49<xmltok>whats the recommended distro for mythtv?
20:50<Universe>there are .deb files for mythtv now, so I guess Debian
20:51<lichen_>yeah its pretty much a no brainer with debian
20:51<m0tion>to tell you the truth, i'm doing it with mandrake 9 and with the help of the docs its a snap
20:52<m0tion>probably not quite as easy as the debs, but the auto-hardware config in mandrake is much better than debian
20:52<m0tion>not to knock debian, i think it's a really good distro
20:52<xmltok>debians what i use anyway, so cool
20:53<m0tion>welp, best of luck to ya
20:53<xmltok>what speed proc do you guys use?
20:54<xmltok>i want to use one of the via epia's but doesnt look like it will be fast enough, but theres a mini-itx board that takes a p3
20:55<m0tion>i would highly recommend against the epia's
20:55<m0tion>benchmarks show it rating somewhere around a P2-300
20:55<m0tion>really not great, especially if your using MPEG4
20:55<lichen_>the thing that sucks is its really hard for me to rationalize building a machine just for mythv, right now im using my friends 1ghz.. but my main workstation is dual 400's .. so it would be hard to build a whole new 1.7ghz machien just for myth :)
20:56<m0tion>I'd recommend one of those $50 Athlon 1600+'s
20:56<m0tion>those would do a killer job, and they aren't very pricey
20:56<xmltok>heat/size is the issue
20:56<m0tion>that could be a problem then, possibly a Duron? I know they run at a lower voltage
20:57<m0tion>you could take the 1600+, lower the voltage and lower the FSB, it would run much cooler then
20:57<m0tion>just ideas
20:57<m0tion>i would shy away from via processors or p3's, via processors aren't fast enough and p3's are too expensive compared to what you can get from AMD right now
20:58<xmltok>well theres an itx board that takes a p3, i dont know if there is an amd itx board
20:58<xmltok>which is a big size change
20:58<m0tion>i don't believe there is
20:59<xmltok>im sure i can find a used p3 for a decent price
20:59<m0tion>probably, do you know if the mini-itx board supports tualatin core based P3's
20:59<xmltok>let me see
20:59<m0tion>those would be your best bet, 0.13 micron, and i think they are like, 1.45volts, very cool
21:00<m0tion>would you mind posting a link? I'd like to check this out myself actualyl =)
21:00<xmltok>oh freetech makes a p4 board too
21:00<xmltok>takes tualatin
21:01<xmltok>thats not the case i would buy, but theyre the only place ive seen that lists a itx p3/p4 board :)
21:02<m0tion>looks like a good board, i suppose the tv-tuner would go in the PCI?
21:02<m0tion>I'd look into a riser card so you could put it in sideways
21:02<matr1x>heh christmas story is on
21:02<matr1x>youll shoot your eye out!
21:02<m0tion>i gotta run, ya'll have a good night
21:03<lichen_>digital video? so you would need DVI->NTSC?
21:03<lichen_>er nevermind, thats just for expansion
21:03<lichen_>wow i need to read up, i haven't paid attention to computer hardware in forever
21:05<xmltok>yeah the riser might be a good idea
21:05<xmltok>i'd like to have a digital audio out too though
21:19<m0tion>well, i've read up on the lirc thing, and i'm pretty confused =)
21:20<m0tion>is it possible/easy to get an IR reciever to work with the IR header on your motherboard? I believe this is IrDA, anyway, anyone have experiance with this?
21:22<xmltok> hmm i dont know
21:22<xmltok>i know you can build one on the parallel port real easily
21:22<xmltok>or serial
21:22<xmltok>do ati cards have hardware mpeg2 encoding? they are making linux drivers now right
21:22<m0tion>i believe the all-in-wonder MAY
21:23<xmltok>that has a tuner right?
21:23<xmltok>i dont even need a tuner i just need a video in of some kind since i have satellite
21:23<m0tion>yes, but i don't think you can use it with mythtv =)
21:23<m0tion>i read specifics of this on the mailing list, but i don't remember them =)
21:24<xmltok>oh hmm
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21:26<dcstimm>why doesnt mythtv support SMP and why does it not compile with gcc optimizations for p3 cpus?
21:27<m0tion>no idea =)
21:27<dcstimm>it doesnt like my dual p3 700s
21:27<dcstimm>its slow as balls
21:28<dcstimm>I have tons of memory and a very fast harddrive, optimized kernel...
21:28<m0tion>hmm, i don't think that there is a plan to add SMP support (make it multi-threaded and whatnot), at least i haven't read about any
21:28<dcstimm>that sucks
21:28<m0tion>your attitude sucks =)
21:28<m0tion>write some code
21:28<dcstimm>good thing all new p4s will have hyperthreading
21:28<dcstimm>that means more SMP code
21:29<m0tion>when you say "its slow as balls"
21:29<m0tion>can you be more specific?
21:29<xmltok>looks like i should get the marvel g200 tv
21:29<dcstimm>umm its slow
21:29<m0tion>what, specifically, is slow?
21:29<dcstimm>while its recording the video skips frames
21:29<dcstimm>no sound sync
21:30<m0tion>what codec are you using to encode?
21:30<dcstimm>the default
21:30<dcstimm>when I use "vcr" to record tv shows I dont have any issues
21:30<m0tion>hmm, i'm pretty sure a p3-700 would be fine for that, not really sure why thats happening
21:30<dcstimm>vcr -g /dev/video0 -c 'divx ;-) low-motion' -v -p 40 -F 23 -q 100 -m mono -b 64 -t 60m 1while.avi
21:31<dcstimm>thats my normal record command
21:31<Universe>my p3 700
21:31<Universe>with default codex
21:31<Universe>I have to use resolution of 352x240
21:31<Universe>to work without dropped frames
21:32<dcstimm>my smp cpus should be able to handle any load
21:32<m0tion>wow =)
21:32<m0tion>your pretty confident about your dual 700's =)
21:32<dcstimm>plus they are overclocked
21:32<dcstimm>yes i am
21:32<dcstimm>i know this system like the back of my hand
21:32<Universe>smp support isn't there for mythtv
21:32<xmltok>plehhsdn i think i will just buy a pvr
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21:33<m0tion>xmltok: hahaha
21:33<dcstimm>cpu MHz : 840.989
21:33<dcstimm>cache size : 256 KB
21:33<dcstimm>thats what i have my cpus overclocked too
21:33<m0tion>wow, mind bending speed
21:33<xmltok>yeah really my laptop is faster
21:33<dcstimm>120mhz fsb
21:34<dcstimm>people dont realize how fast these puppies are
21:34<m0tion>the smp thing is over-rated IHMO, I had dual P3-1.26's oced to 1.51, wasn't really impressed =)
21:34<Chutt>why are people so dumb?
21:34<Chutt>you've got shit for cpus
21:34<dcstimm>umm no i dont
21:34<Chutt>spend $50 and buy something faster.
21:34<m0tion>yea, 1600+ would be better for mythtv, $50
21:34<dcstimm>umm these are not slow
21:34<Chutt>they're not slow?
21:34<Universe>a 700 is slow
21:35<dcstimm>its not my problem that people cant write code anymore
21:35<Chutt>can't write code?
21:35<Chutt>yeah, whatever
21:35<dcstimm>700mhz cpu with 256kb cache at a 120fsb is pretty damn fast
21:35<Chutt>no, it's not
21:35<m0tion>dcstimm: i think your confused
21:36<Chutt>if you can buy something more than twice as fast for $50
21:36<Chutt>it's slow.
21:36<dcstimm>dont tell me a athlon is faster, iv seen the benchmarks
21:36<m0tion>ok, ok, it's faster, whatever
21:36<m0tion>who cares
21:36<dcstimm>wow, the mhz is faster! that is the only thing that makes sence when buying a cpu!
21:36<m0tion>it's still too slow to do what your trying to do
21:36<m0tion>thats the problem
21:36<m0tion>try a lower res
21:37<dcstimm>im watching tv right now, recording with vcr, and running grep -r blah / in the back ground with out any frames lost
21:37<Chutt>with that vcr command line?
21:37<Chutt>you're a)
21:37<Chutt>not capturing full frame rate
21:37<dcstimm>i bet i could even compile a kernel and run unreal2k3 in a window with no frame loss
21:37<dcstimm>its divx, i want the compression
21:38<dcstimm>the picture is perfect and guess what the sound is synced up
21:38<Chutt>capturing at a lower resolution that what the mythv default is
21:38<Chutt>unless you've changed that down?
21:38<m0tion>dcstimm: all of this is pretty irrelevant, if you would like to submit optimizations to the project i'm sure they'd be appreciated, until then, either wait for a newer version and try again, go get a hardware upgrade, or deal with it
21:39<Chutt>c) using much lower quality sound than what mythtv does
21:39<Chutt>and yes, mythtv is fully smp-aware
21:39<dcstimm>a hardware upgrade wont help me because I only use dual cpus
21:39<Chutt>there's quite a few threads
21:39<Chutt>dual cpus add capacity, not speed
21:39<dcstimm>and guess what, mythtv doesnt support them
21:39<Chutt>guess what, it does.
21:39<dcstimm>no it doesnt
21:39<Chutt>it's quite heavily threaded
21:39<Chutt>of course, you can't thread video encoding
21:39<dcstimm>i know how to run top buddy
21:39<Chutt>but you wouldn't know that
21:40<dcstimm>the code cant even be optimized with gcc
21:40<dcstimm>whats up with that?
21:40<m0tion>always amazes me how something can be given to a person for free, and then they complain about it
21:41<Chutt>m0tion, no, it amazes me that some people are utter dumbasses
21:41<Chutt>dcstimm, how can't it be optimized?
21:41<dcstimm>no, I love when I spend the time and install a program, play with it, submit bug reports, submit patches, and still have no success with developers fixing my problems
21:42<Chutt>dcstimm, i'm sorry, i've only seen you bitching about your slowass computer so far
21:42<m0tion>yea, me too
21:42<dcstimm>oh yes my computer is really slow
21:42<Chutt>so, please, tell me
21:43<Chutt>how can't mythtv "be optimized with gcc"?
21:43<dcstimm>i cant even see the difference between this computer and a 2.53ghz p4 with a 533bus
21:43<dcstimm>Chutt: umm, make dies
21:43<Chutt>i doubt that
21:43<dcstimm>okay ill paste the error
21:44<dcstimm>one sec
21:45<Chutt>oh well
21:45<Chutt>i guess i could make mythtv drop frames and stuff
21:45<Chutt>so you could use the exact same quality levels you are with vcr
21:45<Chutt>oh, wait, no, i won't do that
21:45<dcstimm>_SUPPORT -I/usr/include -I/usr/qt/3/include -I/usr/qt/3/mkspecs/linux-g++ -o dialogbox.o dialogbox.cpp
21:45<dcstimm>cc1plus: bad value () for -march= switch
21:45<dcstimm>make[2]: *** [dialogbox.o] Error 1
21:45<dcstimm>make[2]: Leaving directory
21:45<Chutt>how's that mythtv's fault?
21:46<Chutt>that's not even compiling anything
21:46<dcstimm>every app on this computer compiles fine with my gcc optimizations
21:46<Universe>bad value for march...
21:46<dcstimm>umm no
21:46<Chutt>what's the rest of the line?
21:46<Chutt>since you neglected to paste that
21:46<dcstimm>CFLAGS="-mcpu=i686 -O3 -pipe"
21:46<dcstimm>CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=i686 -O3 -pipe"
21:46<dcstimm>these are my gcc flags
21:47<Chutt>is in
21:47<Chutt>that's more agressive optimizations than -mcpu=i686
21:47<Chutt>in case you didn't know that.
21:47<dcstimm>well yeah
21:47<dcstimm>what it has to use its own optimizations?
21:47<dcstimm>for it to compile?
21:48<Chutt>it doesn't.
21:48<Chutt>that's just the default
21:48<dcstimm>then where is it getting the pentiumpro optimizations from?
21:48<vektor>As a software developer, I really hate it when non-developers compile my apps. Problems like this arise.
21:48<Chutt>from the file?
21:48<Chutt>that the user is free to edit if they so desire?
21:48<dcstimm>umm, i am a gnome developer, i dont know anything about qt apps
21:49<Chutt>just like they're free to edit the settings to drop the resolution down if their cpus can't handle the load.
21:49<vektor>Now that's a diss.
21:49<dcstimm>hmm, so I wonder why its failing if its using its own optimizations
21:49<Chutt>i wouldn't know
21:49<vektor>dcstimm: You should probably find out the compile line that's actually being run.
21:49<Chutt>that's an error from g++, though, not mythv
21:50<dcstimm>well its failing when compiling ur gcc code
21:50<dcstimm>ur code
21:50<vektor>I don't think ur is a word.
21:50<dcstimm>sure it is:)
21:51<vektor>Weird, I never knew. :)
21:51<vektor>dcstimm: It doesn't seem like it would be too hard for you to track down what's wrong.
21:52<vektor>I mean, you are a GNOME developer.
21:52<dcstimm>so, when I buy my dual xeon 2.6 cpus with HT, with a 533mhz bus, for $210 apiece I still wont be able to have mythtv benifiting from it?
21:52<vektor>Benifiting from it?
21:53<dcstimm>it wont care
21:53<dcstimm>because its not smp aware
21:53<vektor>Oh, you mean it's not threaded?
21:53<dcstimm>yes mythtv is not threaded for smp
21:53<brtb>libavcodec isn't. mythtv itself is split inot a whole bunch of processes, but libavcodec isn't smp-safe
21:53<vektor>So you're going to make it threaded?
21:54<vektor>libavcodec that is?
21:54<dcstimm>thats for mplayer to do
21:54<vektor>Oh? Arpi hates threads.
21:54<vektor>That's why mplayerxp happened.
21:54<dcstimm>then why is mplayer so fast?
21:54<vektor>Well, partly.
21:54<vektor>Because they optimize.
21:54<brtb>but it WILL like all the cache built into the xeons
21:54<vektor>For display that is.
21:55<dcstimm>that will be cool
21:55<vektor>I really dislike alot of the mplayer coding philosophy.
21:55<dcstimm>i couldnt believe how cheap the xeons are
21:55<vektor>It's a massive hack everywhere.
21:55<dcstimm>well at least it compiles:P
21:56<dcstimm>dual xeon 2.6ghz with HT is cheaper than one P4 3.06 with HT
21:56<vektor>You seem really proud of yourself.
21:57<-- Universehas quit ()
21:57<dcstimm>proud of what?
21:57<vektor>Proud of your spanky.
21:57<dcstimm>proud to say that smp rocks
21:57<vektor>Bah, it sucks and you know it.
21:57<vektor>Since now you have to go recode all your apps.
21:57<dcstimm>umm, not really
21:57<dcstimm>i dont like binaries
21:57<dcstimm>installing binaries
21:57<vektor>I can tell that.
21:58<vektor>But what does that have to do with it?
21:58<dcstimm>i like what gentoo is doing
21:58<vektor>I said you have to go parallelize your apps.
21:58<vektor>I hate what gentoo is doing.
21:58<vektor>Because it makes my life as a developer a big fucking pain.
21:58<Chutt>because of whiners like you, mainly
21:58<dcstimm>because more people are compiling ur code?
21:59<vektor>Yes, because more people are compliing my code.
21:59<Chutt>what part of mythtv isn't smp aware, btw?
21:59<vektor>I have to support more development environments, for one.
21:59<dcstimm>you shouldnt even make a sourceforge account if your source sucks
21:59<Chutt>is it the 3 threads that do the encoding?
21:59<vektor>My source does not suck.
21:59<Chutt>or the 3 threads that handle playback?
21:59<vektor>But I don't see why I have to support compilers that none of my developers use.
21:59<Chutt>ooh, maybe it's the gui thread
21:59<Chutt>that's it
21:59<Chutt>that's what's not smp aware
21:59<vektor>Or autoconf versions, or automake versions, etc etc etc.
21:59<dcstimm>vektor: well, if the code worked it would compile
22:00<vektor>dcstimm: I really think you miss the point.
22:00<dcstimm>vektor: and you could always make a ebuild for gentoo so they dont screw it up
22:00<dcstimm>and force your own optimizations
22:00<lichen_>yeah i always see like 348597 mythtv threads.. i would figure it would work well on smp machines :)
22:00<vektor>And compiler version?
22:00<Chutt>optimizations don't cause code to not compile.
22:00<Chutt>if they do
22:00<Chutt>it's a problem with gcc
22:01<dcstimm>vektor: wow hard, make sure it works with 2.95-3 and 3.2
22:01<dcstimm>wow so hard
22:02<vektor>dcstimm: Uh...
22:02<vektor>Dude, exactly what apps do you maintain?
22:02<Chutt>he's a gnome developer
22:02<Chutt>did you forget?
22:02<vektor>Oh, right.
22:02<vektor>I forgot.
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22:02<vektor>Ok, so you're the author of galeon2?
22:02<dcstimm>hell no
22:03<vektor>So do you deal with user support for galeon2?
22:03<Chutt>dcstimm, can you answer my question about which part of mythtv isn't 'threaded for smp'?
22:03<dcstimm>no I write patches, fixes, fix bugs
22:03<dcstimm>Chutt: if it is, then cool
22:03<Chutt>oh, you're not going to rant about that anymore, then?
22:03<vektor>Oh so you didn't even look into it?
22:03<Chutt>he ran top, he says
22:04<Chutt>kinda fail to see how he could miss all the threads, but, hey, it's possible
22:04<brtb>chutt - i thought you said libavcodec wasn't smp-safe or something... maybe not...
22:04<Chutt>it isn't
22:04<vektor>So you can only use it from within one thread.
22:05<Chutt>but the default rtjpeg codec is
22:05<dcstimm>well, hmm, when I ran it only one cpu was being used
22:05<Chutt>you can't thread video encoding, anyway
22:05<Chutt>it's not possible.
22:05<vektor>Anyways isn't a word.
22:05<Chutt>ok, next
22:05<vektor>'Anyway' is though.
22:06<dcstimm>why doesnt it run on my dual 700s? they arnt considered slow by any means
22:06<brtb>well, you could... have each proc encode every other frame, or something lame like that
22:06<Chutt>ah, screw it
22:06<Chutt>brtb, yeah, and lock each until its done =)
22:06<vektor>dcstimm: 700Mhz P3?
22:06<Chutt>it's a linear process
22:06<Chutt>vektor, yes, they're the best cpus you can buy
22:06<vektor>Chutt: Oh wow I should pick up one then tomorrow!
22:06<Chutt>pick up 3 or 4!
22:07<brtb>dcstimm: it runs on my single p3-667, set to 352x240, mpeg4 encoding at 2200
22:07<dcstimm>no i would recommend the tualatins
22:07<Chutt>then you might get a modern computer out of it =)
22:07<dcstimm>they are much faster
22:07<Chutt>brtb, that's pretty much equivalent to his vcr settings
22:07<Chutt>but that'd be too simple, and wouldn't afford him the oppourtunity to bitch about something
22:07<vektor>dcstimm: 700MHz P3 is pretty wimpy for video works.
22:07<dcstimm>no vcr is 640x480
22:08<vektor>I've really hit the end of my P3-733.
22:08<Chutt>dcstimm, not if you're running with that command line you pasted above
22:08<dcstimm>sure it is
22:08<vektor>'no vcr is 640x480' ?
22:08<brtb>done with the p3? i'll take it then >=]
22:08<vektor>What does that mean?
22:08<Chutt>vektor, the 'vcr' program
22:08<vektor>Oh, the vcr program...
22:08<brtb>no VCR has 480 lines of resolution maybe? i dunno
22:08<vektor>That's just some crappy recorder?
22:09<Chutt>vektor, it defaults to 384x288
22:09<Chutt>vektor, yeah
22:09<dcstimm>vcr is pretty nice, its the only one I could get the sound to sync up with video
22:09<vektor>dcstimm: You should try my recorder app sometime.
22:09<dcstimm>and I use xine or mplayer for playback
22:10<vektor>Actually who am I kidding, I never finished audio sync.
22:10<vektor>I wrote a cool linear line-of-best fit algorithm to compensate between the sampling rate of your soundcard vs the framerate of the video.
22:10<vektor>Which was cool, I was able to calculate the exact number of samples to drop or interpolate to have it perfectly in sync.
22:10<Chutt>mythtv's default res is 480x480
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22:11<dcstimm>mplayer recorded pretty good too
22:11<Chutt>vektor, eh, i don't like that method
22:11<dcstimm>but it would loose since over time
22:11<vektor>dcstimm: All of these recorder apps suck though for quality :(
22:11<m0tion>mythtv's default res is 1:1?
22:11<vektor>Chutt: Why not?
22:11<Chutt>vektor, i'd really rather drop a frame or two every now and then
22:11<m0tion>should it be 4:3?
22:11<vektor>Chutt: Frame of _video_ ??
22:11<vektor>Chutt: You're nuts.
22:11<Chutt>vektor, it doesn't take into account the output audio rate, though
22:11<dcstimm>why cant it be a good compression?
22:12<vektor>m0tion: It encodes at 1:1 but it's scaled down as a 4:3 image, so you need to interplate it back up to 4:3 on playback using an overlay surface.
22:12<vektor>dcstimm: Good compression? That's not what I said.
22:12<dcstimm>the best balance between good quality and good compression
22:12<Chutt>m0tion, what he said
22:12<m0tion>ok, thanks guys, over my head
22:12<Chutt>m0tion, just a lower requirement than 640x480 or 720x480 or whatnot
22:12<vektor>Chutt: I don't understnad. On playback you need to resample the audio anyway since you need to sync it to the video. :)
22:12<vektor>Chutt: Remember, I'm all about video smoothness.
22:12<Chutt>yeah, that's true :p
22:13<vektor>In the ideal world anyway that's what you do.
22:13<dcstimm>have you guys played with windows media center/
22:13<dcstimm>windows xp
22:13<vektor>And since you're resampling by such a small amount it doesn't matter.
22:13<dcstimm>the new OS microsoft released
22:13<Chutt>i haven't
22:13<dcstimm>it has a built in PVR
22:13<dcstimm>fucking amazing
22:13<Chutt>what, like mythtv does?
22:13<dcstimm>tons better
22:14<Chutt>how so?
22:14<lichen_>ive heard people say windows media center isn't good
22:14<vektor>dcstimm: I'm just bitching about none of the other encoders (mine excepted) able to record interlaced-correct streams.
22:14<dcstimm>fast, not cpu intensive
22:14<Chutt>dcstimm, that's because it uses hardware encoder cards
22:14<vektor>dcstimm: So that you don't bleed between fields or deinterlace before encoding, but rather, store the stream in an interlaced-aware manner.
22:14<Chutt>which are not supported in linux.
22:14<dcstimm>no, it uses a software encoder
22:14<Chutt>uh, no
22:14<dcstimm>any tv tuner will work
22:15<Chutt>ms requires a hardware card in the computer to sell it with media center
22:15<Chutt>that's just so they can add more to the price =)
22:15<dcstimm>hauppauge makes hardware cards?
22:15<vektor>The WinTV-PVR.
22:15<dcstimm>how well do they work with mythtv?
22:15<Chutt>they don't
22:15<vektor>Hardware encoding is not supported in linux.
22:15<Chutt>no linux support
22:16<vektor>There are no drivers.
22:16<dcstimm>anyone make them?
22:16<vektor>But please, feel free to help with the multiple efforts to reverse engineer it.
22:16<dcstimm>not the drivers but a hardware tv tuner?
22:16<dcstimm>for linux
22:16<vektor>I beg your pardon?
22:17<brtb>well, mjpeg works (i think)
22:17<Chutt>brtb, it does
22:17<Chutt>but really not worth it
22:17<Chutt>the compression sucks, and playback is rather expensive, cpu wise
22:18<dcstimm>for the hauppage pvr?
22:18<brtb>what, does mjpeg decode take away any advantage of moving the encode to hardware?
22:18<Chutt>no, for mjpeg
22:18<brtb>hauppauge PVR is a mpeg2 encoder, unsupported
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22:18<Chutt>brtb, well, my p3-550 that i stuck a g200-tv in that some guy gave me
22:18<Chutt>can't decode full-size video that it produces in software in real-time
22:18<dcstimm>i wonder if we contacted haupaugge we could nicely ask them for linux support
22:19<Chutt>so i have to record at 352x240
22:19<Chutt>for it to be able to play stuff back
22:19<Chutt>i'm pretty sure hauppauge's been asked nicely for drivers a few times now ;p
22:19<brtb>i really need to just find/buy a new mobo/proc for that thing
22:20<dcstimm>i live close to haupaugge ny
22:20<brtb>well drive over there and ask them then
22:20<dcstimm>Maybe I should stop by and harrass them
22:20<Chutt>oh, and with the cpus that the windows media center boxes run, even software encoding doesn't hurt much
22:21<dcstimm>a 2.53 p4?
22:21<Chutt>you should be able to do 2 full-size captures and a playback at once on those, easy
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22:22<dcstimm>well, i have one laying here on my desk
22:22<dcstimm>maybe I should plug it in
22:22<dcstimm>and try it
22:22<lichen_>hey, once you get all the client/server constructs worked out.. is it going to be the myth server that does the decoding or the client watching the program?
22:22<dcstimm>i dont have a powersupply
22:23<brtb>lichen - if it's the server i'd be worried, that's a lot of decoded data to ship over a network
22:23<lichen_>yeah i would assume it would be the client, but i know nil about video... but i do know about networks and i would have figured htat would have been a ton of data
22:24<Chutt>only the compressed data goes over the network
22:24<Chutt>i should get remote playback working
22:24<Chutt>that's the last major thing before multiple encoder boxes
22:24<lichen_>whoa that sounds cool :)
22:25<Chutt>well, not really
22:25<brtb>well, raw frames would be... 500k per frame, 30 frames per second =~ 15 megs per second, then you get to add raw sound on top of it. i can barely get my 100mbit networks to do 8megs/sec
22:25<Chutt>still have to fix watching a current encoding
22:25<dcstimm>is there a command line version of mythtv, so I can set when I want to record a show from a ssh connection at work?
22:25<Chutt>there's a web interface
22:26<lichen_>thats one thing i am familiar with :)
22:26<Chutt>the program guide should export over a ssh connection, but its graphical
22:26<dcstimm>lynx works
22:26<brtb>chutt - is it mythtv sending the (encoded) data over the network or is it just network-mounted TV drive?
22:26<Chutt>sending it itself
22:26<Chutt>i thought about just mounting crap
22:27<Chutt>but figured that'd involve more setup stuff that people'd complain about
22:27<dcstimm>what do you think will be faster for mythtv, dual xeon 2.6ghz with HT or a single P4 3.06ghz with HT? they both have the same amount of cache
22:27<dcstimm>same speed bus
22:27<Chutt>dualie would give you more capability for multiple cards
22:27<brtb>i almost had a playback-only-over-network box working, standard mythtv 0.7 pointed at the same sql as the first and read-only mounted TV drive
22:27<lichen_>haha yeah i was thinking just doing nfs mounts would simplify all that... but you just know people would complain about exporting stuff and learning how the portmapper works and all that crap
22:27<Chutt>and doing other stuff at the same time
22:27<lichen_>lot more wokr for you thogh
22:28<dcstimm>is there anyway I can get mythtv to understand the keyboard shortcuts that xawtv have?
22:28<Chutt>but both are really way more than enough
22:28<Chutt>other than editing the source?
22:29<dcstimm>like a for mute and F to toggle fullscreen, and my scroll wheel on my mouse to change channels
22:29<Chutt>f already toggles full-screen
22:29<Chutt>mythtv doesn't touch the mixer at all
22:29<dcstimm>okay, but how do I mute it?
22:29<Chutt>however else you want
22:30<brtb>you use the mute button on whatever sound system you're using
22:30<dcstimm>maybe you should include a kmix type program, and interface
22:30<lichen_>hah wow i didn't know f worked.. now i cant getit back fullscreen though :)
22:30<Chutt>i don't need any volume stuff
22:30<Chutt>so it'd just be a waste of time
22:30<dcstimm>its to hard to try to find a mute on a mixer its easier when the video player already has it built in
22:31<dcstimm>also that would require me to take it out of fullscreen to mute
22:31<dcstimm>what if i get a quick phone call?
22:31<Chutt>i dunno, what if?
22:31<Chutt>all my audio goes through a receiver
22:31<Chutt>i don't want the computer changing volume or muting or anything
22:32<dcstimm>well, then, thats pretty shitty
22:32<lichen_>not really, thats how most other home theater applications work
22:32<dcstimm>home theater? its a computer buddy
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22:32<Chutt>and like, such stuff isn't exactly hard to add
22:32<lichen_>how many people actually use the volume on their cable box: 0
22:32<lichen_>no... thisi s part of a home theater
22:33<Chutt>meant to be, at least
22:33<dcstimm>everyone uses the volume on their cable box
22:33<lichen_>the software is designed to be part of a set top box
22:33<Chutt>dcstimm, i get really annoyed if someone changes the volume on my cable box
22:33<lichen_>hahah yeah same here.. it drives the hell out of me
22:33<dcstimm>well, thats u, my parents, only use the volume on the cable box
22:33<lichen_>but we also have like a $10000 entertainment system :(
22:33<mdz_>boy, I sure missed out on some good bullshit
22:33<Chutt>mdz, yeah, we can start it up again, if you want
22:34<mdz_>Chutt: no thanks, I'm busy looking for a P3 upgrade on pricewatch
22:34<brtb>sure, ok, here goes... MYTHTV ISN'T MULTITHREADED
22:34<dcstimm>i dont like to mute everything when I want to mute my tv
22:34<Chutt>just buy everything at newegg
22:34<Chutt>save time =)
22:35<dcstimm>oh okay im going to take a knife to my ear lobe so it mutes my entertainment center
22:35<mdz_>just make sure you add a configuration option
22:35<mdz_>so that the ear-cutting is optional
22:36<dcstimm>turn it on and off
22:36<Chutt>eww, tiny little speakers
22:36<dcstimm>ouch, ahh, ouch, ahh
22:36<lichen_>bah, for what the yare they own :)
22:36<dcstimm>can I at least have the scroll button on the mouse change channels in mythtv???
22:37<lichen_>no thats ridiculous
22:37<lichen_>do you control your tv with a mouse
22:37<dcstimm>its not a tv, its a computer!
22:37<Chutt>i can't get my wife to agree we need a new tv yet
22:37<dcstimm>i dont have a remote with my computer
22:38<lichen_>it would actually be possible though, there are programs for x to map your wheel to certain keys
22:38<mdz_>Chutt: this just in from mythtv-dev: mpeg4 is unusable on an Athlon XP 1800+
22:38<lichen_>hahah luckily i just had to agree with my roommates
22:38<mdz_>Chutt: thought you might like to know since that would affect you
22:38<dcstimm>in xawtv the scroll lets you change channels
22:38<lichen_>if you look through those dirs you see our old Toshiba 36" that we just sold.. and got a Toshiba 57H82 HDTV
22:38<Chutt>is mythtv-dev active for you?
22:38<dcstimm>and since my mouse is wireless
22:38<brtb>ooh, only 1800+'s? not the 1700's or the 1900's?
22:38<Chutt>i haven't gotten any emails for awhile
22:38<dcstimm>it works better than a remote
22:38<mdz_>just got that message about 2 minutes ago
22:39<brtb>ok i'll stop now, heh
22:39<dcstimm>so why cant you consider making the mouse scroll change channels?
22:39<Chutt>because i don't need them to
22:39<dcstimm>why not?
22:39<Chutt>feel free to add a patch
22:39<dcstimm>isnt it a good idea/
22:40<Chutt>i can either use a remote, or a wireless keyboard to change channels
22:40<dcstimm>why would you do that, when a wireless mouse would work better?
22:40<Chutt>how would it work better?
22:40<Chutt>i can't pause or seek with a mouse
22:40<Chutt>or use the UI
22:40<dcstimm>umm you can do more with a mouse then you can with a remote
22:41<dcstimm>sure you can, have a right click menu
22:41<_shad>did you say menu?
22:41<Chutt>i think you're confusing mythtv with an application that's meant to run on a pc is someone's back room
22:41<_shad>why not just have a touchscreen TV?
22:41<mdz_>are you a troll?
22:41<brtb>umm... i've never seen a vcr with right-click context menus before
22:42<_shad>Go to start, go to channel up
22:42<dcstimm>its not going to be hooked to a tv!
22:42<dcstimm>its my computer monitor!
22:43<dcstimm>how hard is that to understand!
22:43<_shad>It's not meant for that
22:43<Chutt>that's nice
22:43<Chutt>it's hooked up to my tv
22:43<Chutt>well, when i use it, it is
22:43<dcstimm>wow, I dont even own a tv
22:43<_shad>It's hooked up to my 35" monitor
22:43<Chutt>i don't care what you do with it
22:43<dcstimm>thats why i have a tv tuner
22:43<dcstimm>if I was cheap i would make my own pvr
22:43<dcstimm>for my tv
22:43<lichen_>thats what this is.. a pvr project
22:43<Chutt>but what i need dictate what features exist
22:43<_shad>dcstimm: if you are watching from the computer, why not use the keyboard? :)
22:43<dcstimm>but if I had a tv i would buy a fucking tivo
22:43<lichen_>not "watch tv on your computer and control it with a mouse and menus project"
22:44<dcstimm>_shad: because, the keyboard is not always on my lap
22:44<_shad>dcstimm: get a wireless :)
22:44<mdz_>making the mouse wheel change channels sounds pretty simple
22:44<mdz_>I bet you could do it
22:44-!-Universe [] has joined #mythtv
22:44<dcstimm>while the mouse normally is always in my hand
22:44<dcstimm>_shad: mine is wireless
22:44<_shad>dcstimm: replace it with a remote
22:44<Chutt>mdz, take a whole 5 minutes, most likely
22:44<dcstimm>_shad: why???
22:44<dcstimm>that doesnt make sence
22:44<lichen_>there are applications out there for X to maps the wheel to keys
22:44<_shad>dcstimm: Buttons?
22:45<dcstimm>so i would have three devices to control one thing
22:45<_shad>lirc has mouse support
22:45<_shad>so there.
22:45<_shad>end of discussion
22:45<dcstimm>one a mouse could do it all
22:45<Chutt>no, it couldn't
22:45<Chutt>have you run mythfrontend?
22:45<dcstimm>YES IT COULD
22:45<_shad>Chutt: mouse gestures. hehe
22:45<dcstimm>it could at least let me bring up a menu
22:45<Chutt>notice the distinct lack of a mouse pointer while running it
22:45<_shad>click SOS in morse code to turn off the tv
22:46<dcstimm>open xawtv
22:46<_shad>I want mine voice controled
22:46<Universe>mythtv is suppose to be a PVR.. no a computer with a mouse attached
22:46<dcstimm>try it
22:46<mdz_>there is a lot of talk going on and no development
22:46<dcstimm>why cant a computer be a pvr?
22:46<_shad>dcstimm: go use freevo
22:47<lichen_>by definition
22:47<Chutt>freevo doesn't use a mouse, iirc
22:47<Universe>you actually like watching TV on your computer?
22:47<dcstimm>umm, i dont own a tv
22:47<Chutt>mdz, 35-50% cpu free with the new split code
22:47<_shad>Chutt: but he can go bug them to add mouse support :)
22:47<dcstimm>and yes i do
22:47<_shad>Chutt: do I might be able to dedicate a p3-450 to capture at 480x480? :)
22:47<Chutt>it seems to be _slightly_ better than before
22:47<Chutt>but i could be imagining things
22:48<dcstimm>my setup explains it all
22:48<_shad>is what you need
22:49-!-tinsley [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:49<dcstimm>naw:) i dont like tvs
22:49<dcstimm>i dont have enough room
22:49<_shad>it's not a tv
22:49<_shad>I don't own a tv :)
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22:50<vektor>_shad: So, what is it?
22:50<dcstimm>what is it?
22:50<_shad>vektor: monitor :)
22:50<vektor>Expand on that.
22:50<_shad>it has a vga input
22:50<_shad>that's it
22:50<_shad>no tuner
22:50<_shad>or speakers
22:50<vektor>Yeah, I was hoping for model and make.
22:50<_shad>vektor: It doesn't have one. ;P
22:50<_shad>I looked
22:50<_shad>it's a trade show monitor
22:50<vektor>_shad: So, who built it, or, where did you get it from?
22:50<vektor>Because it looks super bright.
22:51<_shad>I have the brightness maxxed
22:51<_shad>to make it good for tv
22:51<vektor>That's my one complaint with CRTs. My CRT is nowhere near as bright phosphors as my TV.
22:51<dcstimm>dual monitors are nice, I can watch tv in one and do my work in the other
22:51<vektor>The reds on my monitor are horrid compared to my really dirt cheap television.
22:51<_shad>vektor: you have a crappy monitor then :P
22:51<dcstimm>my crt is very bright
22:51<_shad>I like my 17" better than that 35"
22:51<vektor>For brightness?
22:51<lichen_>i wonder how well my lcd's would be for tv
22:52<dcstimm>i love watching tv on my monitor
22:52<vektor>When my TV is full white is almost hurts to watch.
22:52<dcstimm>it looks so crisp and clean
22:52<brtb>open monitor, find flyback transformer, turn screen control 1/8 turn clockwise. be careful of the 30kilovolts
22:52<_shad>vektor: hhe
22:52<vektor>dcstimm: Sure, but that doesn't indicate colour depth etc.
22:52<vektor>anyway, sleep time.
22:52* vektorgone.
22:52<_shad>brtb: Exactly
22:52<_shad>well, I decided not to study for exams.... I got 60% on the one I did today. :)
22:52<dcstimm>vektor: well sorry, but it looks better then my old RCA 19" tv
22:53<_shad>dcstimm: I thought you didn't have a tv
22:53<dcstimm>i have moved, and I gave that tv to my mom
22:53<dcstimm>for her bedroom
22:53<_shad>why not a monitor? :)
22:53<dcstimm>because she doesnt know what a computer is
22:53<_shad>they sell external tuners for monitors
22:53<_shad>with a remote
22:53<_shad>for like $100
22:54<_shad>I'd like one some day
22:54<_shad>I like monitors
22:54<lichen_>hey question.. what would you guys like to see the "favorite" option in mythweb do?
22:54<_shad>I won't spend $800 on a tv
22:54<lichen_>shad, mine was $2500 :(
22:54<dcstimm>but you could always add a internal one, and record tv shows to ur harddrive
22:54<_shad>lichen: hehe
22:54<Chutt>lichen, thor was working on that
22:54<_shad>dcstimm: ya, but these days most tv tuners are crap :)
22:55<dcstimm>and with a external one its only fullscreen or PIP
22:55<lichen_>oh really? any word from him?
22:55<Chutt>lichen, he had some database mods for it, last i knew of
22:55<lichen_>i guess ill postpone that then.. perhaps he will return and finish it up someday
22:55<dcstimm>haupauge makes a nice model for $49, the wintv go 878 card
22:55<Chutt>i'll give him an email, see if i can get what he was working on
22:55<mdz_>Chutt: 35-50% compared to what before?
22:55<lichen_>so what would you like to see first.. a mangement page to see what all is currently on the machine and available space and al lthat, or resolve conflicts?
22:55<Chutt>mdz, i think it was averaging slightly higher
22:55<mdz_>Chutt: you're lying anyway, I know for a fact that an XP 1800+ is unusable
22:56<Chutt>same basic range, though
22:56<_shad>dcstimm: I have that. I don't really like it. supposedly the ATI's are better
22:56<mdz_>that sounds great
22:56<dcstimm>_shad: iv seen both, i had acouple ati cards, didnt like them, the 878 is perfect
22:56<Chutt>slightly more system usage than before
22:56<_shad>mdz: I'm doing 400x480 on a p3-450 :)
22:56<Chutt>but that's because the loopback's pumping all that data
22:56<mdz_>_shad: rtjpeg?
22:56<_shad>dcstimm: Depends on the shielding I guess
22:57<_shad>mdz: yep
22:57<mdz_>Chutt: an extra copy or two of the compressed stream doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as a couple of copies of the uncompressed stream :-)
22:57<_shad>just takes about 10 seconds for the epg to pop up. hehe
22:58<dcstimm>what file do I edit if I want to set the resolution for mythtv? also I need to set it up so I dont get a echo when watching tv
22:58<dcstimm>how do I do that?
22:58<Chutt>oh, i optimized fast forwarding over video that hasn't been seen before
22:58<Chutt>dcstimm, the sound stuff's in the faq
22:58<Chutt>and the rest of the settings are in settings.txt
22:59<Chutt>well, those related to video, at least
22:59<Chutt>mdz, must've sucked seeking at all before i did that seek table stuff =)
22:59<lichen_>oh hey, is it a good time to cvs update? or should a wait alittle... i haven't done it in a while.. im not even running any of the mysql settings updates
22:59<Chutt>lichen, i'd wait, if you want everything working
23:00<lichen_>aight.. i have no need for bleeding edge
23:00<Chutt>it's just some massive changes, and i'm pretty busy with real work, too
23:00<Universe>real work? whats that?
23:00<Chutt>universe, did you update?
23:00<dcstimm>no the sound stuff isnt in the FAQ
23:01<Universe>nope.. decided not to right now
23:01<Chutt>4th question
23:01<Chutt>that comes with the source.
23:01<dcstimm>Problems compiling xmltv (including Redhat 8.0 issues)
23:01<dcstimm>thats #4
23:01<Chutt>sorry, i don't have time to update the website faq
23:01<Chutt>i dunno, not like you read the README, either
23:02<Universe>geez... what are we paying you for Chutt.
23:02<lichen_>i think dcstimm is kuwangers brother or something
23:02<Universe>oh wait
23:02<Chutt>lichen, haha
23:02<_shad>Chutt: you should rename it to Don't Readme
23:03<mdz_>Chutt: it certainly did suck
23:03<dcstimm>) The audio's _really_ out of sync, and it doesn't pause when I pause live TV?
23:03<dcstimm>- You need to mute the line-in, and set the mixer to record from the line in.
23:03<dcstimm> The audio you're hearing is from the audio pass-through, enabled by the
23:03<dcstimm> V4L driver, and not MythTV. If you're using ALSA, make sure to have the
23:03<dcstimm> 'Capture' mixer enabled and non-muted and at a decent volume.
23:03<dcstimm>this doesnt tell me anything
23:03<mdz_>it tells you exactly what you need to do to fix it
23:03<mdz_>but no more
23:04<Universe>it doesn't hold your hand through fixing it
23:04<Chutt>the howto on the website walks you through using kmix to set things up right, though
23:04<dcstimm>umm, sorry i dont have know what the heck its talking about
23:04<_shad>dcstimm: something called muting line-in?
23:04<Universe>you dont know what a mixer is
23:04<_shad>the first sentense?
23:05<dcstimm>i have the sound output of my tv card going into my linein on my sound card, what do i do
23:05<Universe>have channels for your sound card?
23:05<Universe>you use a mixer
23:05<Universe>you preference
23:05<dcstimm>when i mute the linein, i mute everything
23:05<Universe>then you have the playback muted or turned down
23:05<lichen_>are you using alsa?
23:05<Universe>you have to set line in as the recorded channel
23:06<Universe>with your mixer
23:06<dcstimm>how with kwin?
23:06<dcstimm>or aumix?
23:06<Universe>see the red dot at the bottom of kmix?
23:07<dcstimm>i dont have it installed
23:07<Universe>I dont know how to do it with anything else
23:07<_shad>go into aumix
23:07<dcstimm>kdemultimedia doesnt like me
23:07<Universe>looks like you are going to have to read up on your mixer you have installed
23:07<_shad>aumix +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++O+++++++++++++<Vol
23:07<_shad>Quit RO++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Line
23:08<_shad> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++O Pcm
23:08<_shad>press the down arrow till you go to line
23:08<_shad>press the SPACE bar
23:08<Chutt>you should put the pcm volume down a little
23:08<_shad>and the R will appear
23:08<_shad>Chutt: sounds good on my crappy speakers. :)
23:09<Chutt>most cards clip at that level, is all
23:09<Universe>doesn't on my good speakers shad, heh
23:09<_shad>Haven't gotten around to hooking up my stereo system yet
23:09<_shad>I don't hear it
23:09<_shad>which is weird :)
23:09<dcstimm>why cant it just mute the tv tuner player when its playing back the recorded video?
23:09<Chutt>because i like to torture people.
23:10<Chutt>and make things difficult.
23:10<_shad>because it weeds out the dumbasses
23:10<Universe>make it so people have to read to get it to work
23:10<dcstimm>ah, so I have to use mythtv, and I cant use anyother player
23:10<dcstimm>wow great
23:10<Universe>a learn a little about the OS they are using
23:10<_shad>so when it breaks, they don't come and cry to chutt
23:10<lichen_>yeah its seriously a wonder you can brush your teeth in the morning
23:11<_shad>lichen_: haha
23:11<dcstimm>no i got it working, its just stupid because when I want to just watch tv with xawtv, i have to change everything over
23:11<_shad>Chutt: you know anything about multicasting?
23:11<Chutt>a little, yeah
23:11<_shad>dcstimm: listen, do you understand the concept of mythtv? :)
23:11<Universe>thats why its a PVR dcstimm
23:11<Universe>not a PVR when you want it to be
23:11<lichen_>hey what kinda scan converters you guys got? i tried searching the archives but i just mostly saw talk about the use of htem in general, not brands
23:11<dcstimm>why cant a pvr work on a computer monitor?
23:11<Universe>it can
23:12<_shad>Chutt: You would want to end up multicasting the video stream if you wanted multiple players, right?
23:12<Universe>but a PVR isnt' meant to be shut down
23:12<Chutt>lichen, there were a couple brands mentioned, but the one guy said he wasn't all that happy with the quality of his cheap one
23:12<_shad>Chutt: only if they were watching the exact same thing though
23:12<dcstimm>Universe: why not?
23:12<Chutt>shad, ah, but those players would have to be exactly in sync
23:12<lichen_>you use your nvidias tvout correct?
23:12<Chutt>so it's not really useful
23:12<Chutt>lichen, yeah
23:12<Universe>because you want it to record all your shows when you aren't there
23:12<dcstimm>Universe: i only need a pvr when I want to record a tv show
23:12<Universe>or watching something else
23:12<_shad>Chutt: You can only do multicast on specific networks, or could I multicast with my cable modem?
23:12<dcstimm>and pausing live tv is cool
23:12<Universe>pvr is personal video recorder... it needs to be on all the time to record what you want
23:12<Chutt>shad, depends on the isp
23:13<_shad>Chutt: does it cause a lot of traffic multicasting?
23:13<Chutt>well, less than singlecasting =)
23:13<dcstimm>Universe: why cant it record in the background and only switch to the recorded media if needed?
23:13<lichen_>unicast :)
23:13<_shad>dcstimm: because it's a PVR?
23:13<mdz_>_shad: depends on layer 2
23:13<Universe>its suppose to be only a PVR
23:13<dcstimm>_shad: thats what a tivo does
23:14<Universe>personal video record..
23:14<Universe>thats it
23:14<_shad>dcstimm: yes.
23:14<Chutt>because i wrote it work the way it does.
23:14<dcstimm>Chutt: pretty dumb:)
23:14<_shad>mdz: I want to stream out my warez. :)
23:14<Universe>but can you log into irc on your tivo, no
23:14<Chutt>sorry, i guess i should've consulted you before starting anything
23:14<_shad>dcstimm: if you're watching a program, you can go back and rewatch it, because you've already RECORDED it :)
23:14<Chutt>i'll remember that for next time i start writing something for my own personal use
23:14<dcstimm>_shad: are you stupid? or did you just not read what i typed?
23:14<_shad>Chutt: Consult with me first, maybe I'll let you do it :)
23:15<Universe>myth is really becoming a personal media station
23:15<_shad>dcstimm: no, I didn't.
23:15<Chutt>anyone used the mythmusic update yet?
23:15<_shad>dcstimm: go port showshifter for windows to linux, if that's what you want
23:15<Chutt>i still want to know how well that works for other people =)
23:15<vektor>dcstimm: Are you there?
23:15<_shad>Chutt: Last time I tried mythmusic, it picked up one of my songs, and wouldn't play it. heh
23:16<Universe>I guess I will have to update to test stuff for Chutt...
23:16<_shad>and said it was 40 mins
23:16<dcstimm>make it so it records in the background, while ur watching a show, and if you need to pause it, or rewind it, just launch the recorded file
23:16<_shad>dcstimm: go code it, and see how EASY that is
23:16<Universe>you does to that dcstimm
23:16<Chutt>dcstimm, uh, you can't do that
23:16<vektor>dcstimm: I was trying to get to sleep when I remembered my biggest complaint against users who compile my software needlessly/the gentoo way.
23:16<Universe>you can watch a recording while its recording
23:16<dcstimm>and it can record while your playing the recorded file
23:16<dcstimm>Chutt: i do it all the time
23:16<vektor>dcstimm: The problem I have, as a software developer, is that if everyone out there is compiling my software, I can't guarentee that they'll all be able to. It's yet another thing that can go wrong that I cannot predict.
23:16<Chutt>ah, overlay
23:17<Chutt>sorry, but no
23:17<dcstimm>vektor: so make a simple ./ script that installs the binaries
23:17<Chutt>vektor, hey, get this, i've got a guy on the mailing list that says he _wants_ to use canada-cable, and won't try other tuner types =)
23:17<_shad>just like my crazy idea of capturing to ram, then putting it on the HD
23:17<_shad>Chutt: haha
23:17<vektor>dcstimm: And for every email about a compile failing there are 5 people who tried to compile it, couldn't, and never reported anything.
23:17<vektor>dcstimm: Again, you missed the point.
23:18<vektor>Chutt: Then that user is an idiot.
23:18* _shadstops sending his canada-cable emails now...
23:18<dcstimm>vektor: point? the point is, its opensource, let the person do what every they want
23:18<vektor>Chutt: Tell them that this is seriously the problem, and that canada-cable does not exist.
23:18<vektor>dscti: Hey, I do, I just get pissed off with distros like gentoo then.
23:19<dcstimm>vektor: distros like gentoo are nice because you have more control of your opensource apps
23:19<Chutt>vektor, someone did =)
23:19<vektor>dsctim: And they're a pain for developers.
23:19<lichen_>hey just out of curiosity, you have RecordOverTime in the settings.. what about RecordBeforeTime?
23:19<Chutt>lichen, not implemented
23:19<Universe>get to it!
23:19<_shad>lichen: set your clock x minutes fast? :)
23:19<dcstimm>they figure all code needs to be compiled, why not making a ebuild with the instructions already in it so the end user doesnt have to mess with trying to compile the src them selfs
23:19<Chutt>the scheduler would need to know about it, and i haven't bothered to
23:20<dcstimm>also it makes the developers life easier
23:20<vektor>dsctimm: That's fine, but don't have all users compile everything.
23:20<_shad>vektor: Just distribute a windows exe :)
23:20<dcstimm>maybe if more developers made scripts that compiled the program for the user they wouldnt have so many annoying people
23:20<lichen_>doesn't seme like it would be terribly tough? i could probably come up witha patch for it
23:20<vektor>dsctimm: Are you not listening?
23:21<_shad>dcstimm: ./configure;make;make install?
23:21<vektor>dsctimm: The point is someone is going to try and compile with some gcc version I've never used. It will fail. They will not be able to run my software. I will lose a user.
23:21<_shad>lichen: what kind of conflicts would there be if you tried to record one program after another?
23:21<Chutt>lichen, it's slightly harder than you're thinking, but no, not very hard
23:21<dcstimm>_shad: include a script that automaticly configures, makes, makes installs, and even helps set up everything automaticly
23:21<vektor>dsctimm: Or, they have some version of autoconf/automake or libtool that I've also never used.
23:22<lichen_>yeah i was thinking about hwo to handle scheduling conflicts
23:22<_shad>vektor: put a shell script in to email you when a compile fails :)
23:22<Chutt>lichen, mainly, i haven't gotten to doint it yet
23:22<lichen_>well.. ifi ts something you're planning o doing at some point in the future i guess ill just let you handle it then :)
23:22<_shad>dcstimm: like, that lots of things have? :)
23:22<Chutt>future could mean '6 months'
23:22<_shad>dcstimm: have you used debian? :)
23:22<dcstimm>_shad: thats what i said
23:22<dcstimm>_shad: hated it
23:22<lichen_>ohw ell, i can live iwhtout the first couple minutes of my shows :)
23:22<_shad>dcstimm: it's what you want.
23:22<dcstimm>_shad: i didnt have enough control
23:22<_shad>lichen: change your clock.
23:23<_shad>dcstimm: you compile everything from source?
23:23<vektor>dsctimm: Do you see my point?
23:23<Chutt>yeah, changing your clock would be the cheating way to do it
23:23<dcstimm>_shad: of course
23:23<_shad>dcstimm: fun.
23:23<dcstimm>_shad: so i can add all my patches
23:23<Chutt>then tacking on more overtime at the end
23:23<_shad>Chutt: put that in the FAQ :)
23:23<lichen_>i dont like cheating the system :(
23:23<dcstimm>_shad: i have more patches for my software, i can work with binaries
23:23<lichen_>unless the system == my work
23:24<vektor>dsctimm: Oh, and the fucking default gentoo kernel included a fuckload of patches that broke the bttv driver, that was fun to debug with some clueless user :(
23:24<_shad>dcstimm: or use the debian source packages? :)
23:24<_shad>then apply your patch
23:24<vektor>dsctimm: again, I almost lost a user because dude was using some crazy patched kernel.
23:24<_shad>and install the resulting deb?
23:24<dcstimm>vektor: then emerge the vanilla kernel, im using the gentoo kernel now, its working fine with bttv
23:24<dcstimm>vektor: the 2.5 kernels have a broken bttv
23:24<_shad>lichen_: record the previous show also? ;]
23:24<vektor>dsctimm: I don't use gentoo, thanks. It was the preemptive patch backport to 2.4 that breaks bttv.
23:25<vektor>dsctimm: But before I go back to bed, do you not see my point about gentoo being a pain to developers?
23:25<dcstimm>vektor: hmm, im using both, weird
23:25<dcstimm>vektor: nope:)
23:25<Chutt>gentoo's just the latest l33t distribution to use
23:25<vektor>Well, forget it then.
23:26<_shad>it all comes down to debian in the end
23:26<vektor>But I just hate it that I can't release software for linux and know that it will work.
23:26<Chutt>it's as crappy as everything else out there
23:26<dcstimm>vektor: i write ebuilds also, so I dont understand why developers just cant release one
23:26<vektor>dsctimm: Hey, I have no problem releasing an ebuild! Hell, my app is already in gentoo and I'm going to fix the ebuild they have.
23:26<_shad>dcstimm: write it for them, and send them a patch?
23:26<vektor>But that's sooo not the point.
23:26<vektor>dsctimm: The point is that even with an ebuild, it's completely non-deterministic!
23:26<vektor>I have no control over their build system.
23:26<vektor>With a debian package, I know what's going on.
23:27<_shad>vektor: put a backdoor in :)
23:27<vektor>Since, well, I built it.
23:27<dcstimm>_shad: I write enough ebuilds, i tried the one that someone else wrote, its crap, I dont know whats wrong with it, If i knew more about mythtv i would, but sorry, I dont
23:27<vektor>_shad: I think I will, show these lusers that building from source does not mean it's somehow better.
23:27<_shad>vektor: hehe
23:27<Chutt>but compiling with all those extra compile options increases system speed 0.0062%!!!!!!!!!!!!!@#!@#@#!
23:27<lichen_>hey so you guys never answered me before.. what would you like to see first in myhtweb, the resolve conflicts, or some sort of existing program management, view, delete, available diskplace, etc.?
23:27<_shad>dcstimm: you need to install debian, and install mythtv from debian.
23:28<vektor>ok I need sleep now, but I think my point about development environment is still very valid.
23:28<dcstimm>vektor: its like saying, well, im going to write opensource apps, but only release rpms and debs, because thats the only thing I use
23:28<_shad>it's valid
23:28<vektor>dsctim: No it's not, and I never said that.
23:28<dcstimm>_shad: so all my other software will be borked?
23:28<Chutt>lichen, personally, i'd like to see conflict stuff
23:28<_shad>dcstimm: you can install local packages.
23:28<-- mnkboyhas quit ()
23:28<vektor>dcstimm: I release debs and the source of course, and having the ebuild around for _developers_ is great. But for users? I think that's _fucked_up_.
23:28<dcstimm>_shad: well, umm, i dont want to manually install gnome and kde, thank you
23:28<vektor>Because they'll try and run tvtime by compiling it first, it may fail (I have no idea!), and if it fails, I lose a user.
23:29<vektor>Enough said.
23:29<_shad>dcstimm: umm, you're compiling from source ANYWAYS.
23:29<vektor>I can't quality check my code.
23:29<vektor>My app 'may or may not work with your linux'.
23:29<vektor>Yeah, that makes me look great.
23:29<lichen_>alright... ive gotten all the patches merged into my tree and it all seems to be pretty clean, but i guess ill hold off posting the diff until i get resolve conflicts at least basically working
23:29<dcstimm>vektor: people that are idiots shouldnt be using gentoo, and most idiots stop using gentoo after a week anyways
23:29<dcstimm>_shad: yes but its automated
23:29<vektor>dcstimm: Idiots? This has nothing to do with idiots.
23:29<Chutt>lichen, actually, if what you have is stable, could you send it my way?
23:29<vektor>dcstimm: This has to do with building a system based on everyone compiling everything.
23:30<vektor>It's ridiculous.
23:30<Chutt>lichen, or whatever
23:30<dcstimm>vektor: no its not, how do you think developers develop their distros?
23:30<Chutt>tomorrow i'll see about giving you cvs access, if you want
23:30<lichen_>sure i can do it now.. i just figured you would prefer it to be all together
23:30<dcstimm>they compile everything!
23:30<lichen_>yeah that would be cool, makes it easier for you :)
23:30<Chutt>so, don't send it then =)
23:30<lichen_>hah alright
23:31<Chutt>you can just check it in yourself
23:31<vektor>dcstimm: And once one developer builds the app, nobody else needs to compile it, plus they can test that specific build and make sure it works!
23:31<Chutt>but, tomorrow
23:31<lichen_>yeah thats fine, ill be sitting at work all day tomorrow bored, so we can deal with it then
23:31<dcstimm>vektor: you can test a ebuild and make sure it works
23:31<vektor>dcstimm: It's like shipping 15 million _different_ versions of your app.
23:31<dcstimm>vektor: if the ebuild works then the app will
23:31<vektor>dcstimm: But you might use different flags, or a different compiler, a different linker (maybe with a bug!), etc etc etc etc etc.
23:31<dcstimm>vektor: and the ebuild can patch and fix anyproblems the user will have
23:32<vektor>If you're using some old small-buggy version of ld, and you build tvtime with that, then it might fuck up for you and for nobody else.
23:32<dcstimm>vektor: and the ebuild could fix that
23:32<_shad>the ebuild is a developer in itself
23:32<dcstimm>vektor: or force optimizations
23:32<vektor>Optimizations don't matter!
23:32<Chutt>it's magic
23:32<Chutt>that's how
23:32<vektor>Can I force specific versions of all your development tools?
23:32<dcstimm>vektor: ever look at a ebuild?
23:32<vektor>A specific gcc? A specific ld? A specific 'strip'? A specific nm?
23:32<vektor>That's ridiculous.
23:32<vektor>It'st stupid.
23:33<vektor>It's just more stuff I can't test against.
23:33<vektor>tvtime 'might' work on your system, but hey, what the fuck do I know.
23:33<vektor>Anyway, I think I've made my point.
23:33* vektorsleep
23:33<Universe>later vektor
23:33<dcstimm>vektor: when compiling openoffice, it says, forcing plain optimzations, sorry stressing optimzations will not work..
23:34<vektor>And yes, I do need very specific compiler options, but that's only a VERY SMALL piece of the puzzle.
23:34-!-bigguy [] has joined #mythtv
23:34<vektor>so yeah, my ebuild will reflect my optimizations.
23:34<dcstimm>then dont worry about it
23:34<vektor>but damned if it can help your compiler version
23:34<vektor>or your binutils
23:34<vektor>or your ... ... ...
23:34<vektor>the whole fucking rest of your development environment.
23:34<dcstimm>gentoo uses one version of gcc and one version of binutils
23:35<vektor>I don't quite buy that.
23:35<dcstimm>they dont release a version of gcc with out testing it heavily
23:35<vektor>but i'm asleep now
23:35<dcstimm>gentoo 1.2 uses gcc 2.95
23:35<dcstimm>gentoo 1.3 uses 3.1, but 3.1 wasnt a offical release
23:36<dcstimm>and gentoo 1.4rc1 is using gcc 3.2
23:36<dcstimm>which isnt offically out yet
23:36<dcstimm>so the only one they support is 2.95
23:36<Universe>like people are still running 2.95 on gentoo systems
23:37<dcstimm>umm, if they are using stable code they are
23:37<dcstimm>and I sure the hell am
23:37<dcstimm>gcc -v
23:37<dcstimm>Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/2.95.3/specs
23:37<dcstimm>gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)
23:37<dcstimm>if you look slackware uses the same exact release
23:37<dcstimm>and I believe debian does too
23:37<Universe>I can almost bet 99% of non-developers that run gentoo aren't using it
23:38<lichen_>hmm it would be kidna nice if --new-file worked on cvs diff
23:38<dcstimm>umm, they might be running 1.4rc1, but its not recommended
23:38<Chutt>debian uses 2.95.4
23:38<Chutt>prerelease, of course
23:38<Universe>not recommended doesn't mean anything to users, dcstimm
23:38<Chutt>7 months of bug fixes over that 2.95.3 release.
23:38<Universe>most non-developers no nothing about gcc..
23:39<dcstimm>well, lets put it this way, its like using the cvs of gentoo
23:39<dcstimm>there is more 2.95-3 users out there
23:39<Universe>in gentoo?
23:39<Universe>look in #gentoo..
23:40<dcstimm>im in there
23:40<Universe>all you hear is talk about updating to 1.4
23:40<dcstimm>most people having problems are using 3.2
23:40<dcstimm>thats why they are on the irc channel
23:40<Universe>but they doesn't understand that dcstimm
23:40<bigguy>most people are morons
23:40<Universe>if I get an error compliting something, I dont know why it isn't compiling
23:41<dcstimm>if they want to try using the latest and greatest thats cool, they know they are going to have bugs
23:41<Universe>what emerge will not download an older version of gcc for me so I can compile this one person
23:41<dcstimm>all the offical ebuilds get writen for 2.95
23:41<Universe>one program, I meant
23:42<dcstimm>yes it locks the gcc version
23:42<dcstimm>1.2 is the only one non-gentoo developers should be writing ebuilds for
23:43<dcstimm>then most of the time the gentoo hackers will modify the prewritten ebuild and make it work with gcc 3.2 or gentoo 1.4rc1
23:44<Universe>I haven't had to hack anything to get it to compile on my 1.4 gcc3.2 system
23:44<dcstimm>I wrote all the phoenix ebuilds, i tested it only on gcc 2.95-3, and others modified it for 3.2
23:44<Universe>so they aren't locking it
23:44<dcstimm>the ebuild has a basic if then statement
23:45<Universe>but they arent' using it to lock the ebuilds
23:45<dcstimm>if its gcc 2.95 then do this, if its gcc 3.2 then do this
23:45<dcstimm>portage locks the ebuilds
23:45<dcstimm>so a gcc 3.2 user cant uninstall 3.2 and downgrade to 2.95
23:46<dcstimm>or install both
23:47<dcstimm>but the reason i like gentoo is I can just add one line to a ebuild so it will see my new patches I added
23:48<dcstimm> unpack ${A}
23:48<dcstimm> # causes ICE on ppc w/ gcc (still)
23:48<dcstimm> use ppc && (
23:48<dcstimm> [ -z "${CC}" ] && CC=gcc
23:48<dcstimm> if [ "`${CC} -dumpversion | cut -d. -f1,2`" != "2.95" ] ; then
23:48<dcstimm> patch -p0 < ${FILESDIR}/metacity-2.4.1-ppc-gcc3.2.diff || die "patch failed"
23:48<dcstimm> fi
23:48<dcstimm>like this is one I do for my metacity ebuild
23:49<dcstimm>and if I want to add any more patches I just and another patch -p0 .... line
23:49<dcstimm>and point it to the new patch
23:49<Chutt>yeah, that's really a whole lot different than rpms or debs
23:49<dcstimm>I can even do emerge -u gaim-cvs and it automaticly fetches the latest cvs of gaim and installs
23:50<dcstimm>automaticly checksout and compiles and upgrades
23:50<dcstimm>if I have to modifty a deb, I cant
23:51<Chutt>sure you can.
23:51<dcstimm>how can I modify a binary only?
23:51<Chutt>it's just as easy to grab the source to a package as it is to grab the binary
23:52<dcstimm>but what if I want to change one simple thing I would have to learn how they made the deb to make it perfect
23:52<Chutt>to add a patch?
23:52<Chutt>it's basically the same as your precious ebuilds
23:52<Chutt>add the patch to the list of patches to apply to the source, rebuild.
23:52<dcstimm>lets say I download a deb off the web I want to install
23:52<dcstimm>its binary only
23:53<dcstimm>and its not doing what I want
23:53<dcstimm>how do I edit that?
23:53<Chutt>you're downloading binaries that don't come with source?
23:53<dcstimm>well if thats all the site provided me with
23:53<Chutt>seeing as you stipulated that, then i don't see how you're going to do the same with any distribution.
23:54<dcstimm>what if the only way to get the src is to check it out from cvs, and the debs are just the latest snapshots
23:54<Chutt>is this example program GPL?
23:54<Chutt>then that's impossible.
23:54<Chutt>the situation is, dumbass.
23:55<Chutt>if you're distributing binaries, you must distribute the corresponding source code.
23:55<dcstimm>what if I want the deb to automaticly install into a different directory and not the one they specified in the deb
23:55<dcstimm>phoenix doesnt
23:55<dcstimm>they only release snapshots
23:55<Chutt>that's nice of them
23:56<dcstimm>of cvs
23:56<dcstimm>in rpm and in tar.gz format
23:56<Chutt>are you going to babble like this all night?
23:56<dcstimm>no src
23:56<Chutt>like, you were entertaining for awhile
23:56<Chutt>it's not all that often we get someone as blatently stupid as you in here
23:57<Chutt>but, i'm beginning to tire of it
23:57<Universe>Chutt... its a waste of time.. he has actually talked me into taking gentoo off of my system.
23:57<dcstimm>things that would be nice to see, mouse scroll to be able to change channels in mythtv, and thats it
23:57<Chutt>dcstimm, there's an email address on the webpage to send patches to
23:57<dcstimm>Chutt: the patches are written
23:57<Chutt>i have a standing policy of ignoring all feature requests that come without a patch implementing the feature.
23:57<dcstimm>I just did them
23:58<dcstimm>just compiling to make sure it works