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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-11

00:00<dcstimm>Universe: if you dont think gentoo is good for you then so be it, and if you like another distro its not like im threatened or something
00:00<dcstimm>i like all distros for their own purpose
00:01<dcstimm>rpms are good for newbies, debs for people that dont care, ebuilds for me
00:02<Universe>I wasn't trying to threaten you are anything...
00:02<Universe>you didn't develop gentoo
00:02<Universe>I was just making a statement
00:02<Universe>and it wasn't even to you
00:03<dcstimm>its not like im dissing mythtv or anything, its just that I thought it could be easier
00:03<Universe>then make it easier..
00:04<dcstimm>why? i dont develop it
00:04<Universe>I am sure Chutt wouldn't mind an ebuild for mythtv
00:05<Universe>because its opensource
00:05<Universe>and you like the project?
00:05<bigguy>Chutt: you think he got of one of these buses?
00:06<dcstimm>im just saying, setting the scroll on the mouse to change channels wouldnt be a bad idea
00:07<Chutt>bigguy, excellent.
00:08<Universe>dcstimm.. its meant to be a pvr connected to a TV... Chutt shouldn't program something like that.
00:08<Universe>and like he has said, he will accept a patch
00:09<dcstimm>but its still a computer
00:09<dcstimm>and a wireless mouse could function as a remote
00:09<Universe>using a remote, no a mouse, connected to a tv
00:09<dcstimm>and considering the fact that most tv tuners dont come with remotes
00:09<Universe>it doesn't have enough buttons
00:09<dcstimm>its a good idea
00:09<dcstimm>yes, channel up and down
00:09<dcstimm>all you need
00:09<Universe>lirc doesn't use only tv turner remotes
00:10<Universe>mythtv, whats all you need?
00:10<lichen_>if channel up and channel down is all you need why dont you just stick with xawtv?
00:10<lichen_>ahh forget it in getting dragged in again
00:10<lichen_> ineed to sleep
00:10<dcstimm>if i need to rewind i can jump back to my keyboard
00:11<Universe>there is no keyboard with the pvr
00:11<dcstimm>who has a remote that has fast forward and pause on it?
00:11<Universe>its suppose to be used with a remote
00:11<dcstimm>who has a remote?
00:11<Universe>any universal one will work
00:11<Chutt>most people?
00:11<Universe>with lirc
00:11<Universe>yes it will
00:11<dcstimm>why do you need a remote?
00:11<Universe>my tivo remote will work
00:11<dcstimm>when you can just use a keyboard and mouse?
00:12<Chutt>because i designed the interface to run with a remote.
00:12<Universe>because a keyboard on my coffee table is stupid
00:12<dcstimm>what if I just want to watch tv on my computer? with PVR functions
00:12<dcstimm>i dont need a remote
00:12<Chutt>that's nice
00:12<Universe>that isnt' what mythtv was designed for
00:12<Chutt>i really don't give a damn what you want to do with it
00:12<dcstimm>you will get more users that are just gonna use it on the tv set
00:13<Chutt>and i certainly don't give a damn if anyone uses it besides me
00:13<dcstimm>you will get more users that are just gonna use it on their monitor
00:14<Universe>you love us users Chutt and you know it
00:14<bigguy>my wireless keyboard has a decent range an a build in glide point mouse
00:14<bigguy>built even
00:15<bigguy>some cheap chinese build I got from a guy I traded with
00:16<dcstimm>anyone know any good apps that would make a good PVR on a computer with out a tv set and remote
00:16<bigguy>but really the whole point of a pvr is to use the TV
00:16<Universe>dcstimm.. nope..
00:16<dcstimm>no its not
00:16<Universe>wow... so tivo has it all wrong?
00:17<Universe>damn.. I better call them and explain it to them
00:17<Chutt>well, yeah, since tivo's dead :p
00:17<dcstimm>if I was going to make a pvr for my tivo, i would just buy a tivo
00:17<dcstimm>and be done with it
00:17<Universe>tivo is a pvr
00:17<dcstimm>if I was going to make a pvr for my tv, i would just buy a tivo
00:17<Universe>running on linux no less
00:18<bigguy>the whole point of using a homebrew pvr is to avoid montly tvguide access fees
00:18<Chutt>naw, the point is for me to have something to do when i'm bored :p
00:18<lichen_>actually if i was forced to buy a premade one i would get a replay
00:18<dcstimm>there are hacks to make a tivo use xmltv type programs
00:18<bigguy>and also to save money if you already have good enough equipment
00:18<Universe>thats nice dcstimm..
00:18<dcstimm>so as you can see mythtv is pointless
00:19<Universe>but myth kicks tivo's ass
00:19<lichen_>hahaha god i just want to strangle you
00:19<Universe>myth offers alot more than tivo right now
00:19<lichen_>why not just accept something for what it is
00:19<Chutt>then why are you in here at all?
00:19<dcstimm>licheni dont understand why it cant do both?
00:19<Chutt>well, aside from the fact that i've being extremely nice and haven't banned you yet
00:20<dcstimm>im just trying to help
00:20<dcstimm>show you another way of looking
00:20<Chutt>no, you're not
00:20<Chutt>you're being a dumbass.
00:20<Universe>mythtv doesn't do what you want it to do.. I think you need to start looking for something else now
00:20<dcstimm>yes, im al
00:20<Chutt>and a source of entertainment
00:20<Chutt>i'm not going to redesign the entire UI just because some retard on an irc channel told me i was going about it the wrong way.
00:21<Universe>go bug freevo developers, maybe you can talk them into change their code to suit you
00:21<dcstimm>mythtv can do everything if the developers wernt bent on making it only work with a tv/remote
00:21<Chutt>it works fine on a monitor.
00:21<Chutt>i use it most of the time on one.
00:21<dcstimm>Chutt: not with out a remote
00:21<Universe>it works fine for my dcstimm
00:21<Chutt>and i use the keyboard more often than the remote
00:21<Universe>I dont have a remote right now
00:21<Edgan>I use monitor+remote
00:22<dcstimm>Universe: im sorry i just wish the mouse could change channels
00:22<lichen_>i thought you said you just wrote a patch for it?
00:22<Universe>then make it do it
00:22<Chutt>you just said you added support for that?
00:22<Universe>there source is there
00:23<dcstimm>if the mouse could change channels you could just use it for that
00:24<Chutt>ah, so i guess you didn't just add support for that.
00:24<Universe>you aren't making sense dcstimm..
00:25<dcstimm>Universe: sorry I dont natively speak english
00:25<lichen_>ahh it hurts
00:25* lichen_&
00:27* dcstimmis away
00:29<bigguy>I wonder if he's ~12
00:31<Chutt>certainly acts it
00:34<bigguy>wonder where he originaly is from
00:39<dcstimm>how well does mythtv work on ppc arch?
00:41<Chutt>i wouldn't know
00:44<matr1x>good question
00:45<matr1x>cause thats what i was considering using
00:45<matr1x>but probably not great
00:45<Chutt>i doubt it builds, for one
00:45<Chutt>but that'd be relatively easy to fix
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00:55<dcstimm>Linux-Powered PVR/Satellite Machine
00:56<dcstimm>on slashot
00:58<Chutt>heh, europe/satellite only
01:03<Chutt>nice uid on /.
01:04<Chutt>you're _such_ a dumbass, you realize that?
01:04<Chutt>it runs like a dog because you never dropped the resolution down
01:04<dcstimm>it should be better
01:04<Chutt>it _can't_ be better
01:04<Chutt>you try vcr with the same resolution and framerate
01:04<dcstimm>respond to my thread
01:04<Chutt>i guarantee you'll get the same results as with mythtv
01:05<dcstimm>so drop the default framerat
01:05<Chutt>uh, no
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01:05<Chutt>the current defaults are low enough
01:05<dcstimm>vcrs output is amazing
01:05<Chutt>i doubt that, that low resolution usually looks like crap
01:05<dcstimm>even if I stick it on the highest quality i dont loose frames
01:06<dcstimm>I just get a huge file
01:06<dcstimm>want me to upload a sample for ya?
01:06<Chutt>not really
01:07<Chutt>so you lied and didn't add the mouse scrollwheel support? :p
01:07<dcstimm>patches didnt work
01:07<Chutt>incapable of doing so?
01:07<dcstimm>didnt even compile
01:07<Chutt>ah, i see
01:08<Chutt>so you can't code, then
01:08<dcstimm>yeah, when I dont write the code, i have a hard time patching it
01:08<Chutt>all you have to do is listen for buttons 4 and 5 on the video window, and send back the appropriate keycode in the checkevents function
01:08<Chutt>should be about 5 lines of code
01:09<dcstimm>then implement it
01:09<Chutt>why should i?
01:09<dcstimm>because you know how
01:09<dcstimm>and I will stop bugging you
01:09<Chutt>i can get you to stop bugging me by banning you from the channel
01:09<Chutt>and that'd be easier
01:10<dcstimm>not really considering I work for a ISP
01:10<Chutt>ooh, big man
01:10<dcstimm>and I could just relog on with any ip
01:10<Chutt>are you a dumbass there, too?
01:10<TardisX>man I work for an ISP. I feel tainted now
01:11<witten>ok, so who wants to give me free dsl? :)
01:11<dcstimm>im sorry to bug you guys
01:11<Chutt>who said that a tv is recommended?
01:11<dcstimm>i can hook up anyone that has time warner for free
01:11<dcstimm>cable modem wise
01:12<dcstimm>well isnt it?
01:12<Chutt>uh, no
01:12<dcstimm>but a keyboard and mouse isnt supported
01:12<Chutt>a keyboard is supported.
01:12<dcstimm>why not a mouse then
01:12<Chutt>the entire interface is used with keypresses
01:12<dcstimm>its easier for me to have a mouse on the couch then a keyboard
01:13<Chutt>it's easier to have a remote than either
01:13<dcstimm>yeah true
01:13<dcstimm>but a wireless mouse makes a nice subsitute
01:13<Chutt>kinda hard to see a little mouse pointer from far away
01:13<TardisX>serious dejavu. don't you two keep having the same discussion over and over?
01:13<dcstimm>you dont need a mouse pointer
01:13<Chutt>tardisx, i'm bored, running tests for work
01:13<dcstimm>TardisX: yeah i guess im really annoying about it
01:13<Chutt>need something to do while they're going
01:14<Chutt>dcstimm, how would you use the UI without a mouse pointer?
01:14<dcstimm>you can make it so the mouse pointer is huge when using the gui?
01:14<dcstimm>or highlights
01:14<dcstimm>i would just use it for the scroll
01:15<dcstimm>to change channels
01:15<dcstimm>like I do now with xawtv
01:15<Chutt>like i said, 5 lines of standard xlib
01:15<tinsley>whats freeplaytv url
01:15<dcstimm>i can be in the kitchen and change channels with the mouse
01:16<dcstimm>Chutt: awesome
01:16<Chutt>tinsley, that one i pasted in here from yesterday?
01:16<Chutt>ah, heh
01:17<tinsley>so, from what ppl say, the vga2ntsc is worth it
01:17<tinsley>it's kinda pricey though
01:17<Chutt>is that a specific brand?
01:18<tinsley>AITech Web Cable Plus VGA2NTSC Converter ?
01:18<Chutt>some guy on the list said the tv out quality with his video card was better
01:18<Chutt>i think
01:19<Chutt>recently, lemme see if i can find the message
01:19<tinsley>i think i read its always better
01:19<Chutt> has those cheap, btw
01:20<witten>you can get a video card with tv out for like $40-$50 bucks
01:21<Chutt>i just need to break down and buy a projector with dvi input.
01:21<Chutt>that'd be perfect =)
01:21<tinsley>witten: yes, but vid quality suffer from not having enough overscanning
01:21<witten>Chutt: how much are those?
01:22<witten>tinsley: if you say so :)
01:22<Chutt>several thousand
01:22<witten>tinsley: tv video quality sucks so much compared to a monitor anyway, I doubt I'd notice
01:22<witten>Chutt: ouch
01:22<tinsley>the aitech has builtin scan converter
01:22<Chutt>i want a 100" screen, though
01:22<tinsley>lets be serious
01:23<witten>is there such a thing as a cheap projector?
01:23<Chutt>what's not serious about that? =)
01:23<tinsley>witten: you can make your own rgb projector
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01:23<tinsley>for like $50 bucks and some cardboard
01:23<Chutt>projectors are getting cheaper all the time =)
01:24<tinsley>Chutt: which projector are you getting with dvi?
01:24<witten>tinsley: cool
01:24<Chutt>can't justify the purchase =)
01:25<tinsley>i think i'm going to buy a new tv, a 32inch samsung tantus
01:25<tinsley>it's a grand
01:26<tinsley>yea, flatscreen
01:26<tinsley>3:2 pulldown
01:26<tinsley>blah blah blah
01:26<Chutt>still 4:3, i assume
01:26<tinsley>yes, samsung has a 30inch 16:9 but I don't like it
01:26<tinsley>also a grand
01:28<tinsley>i would get a projector, but i only want to spend about $1000
01:28<Chutt>i'd think a 30" widescreen would look tiny
01:29<tinsley>Chutt: yes
01:29<Chutt>i've got an older 32" jvc, i just want something bigger for movies
01:29<tinsley>theres a good url for comparing 4:3 to 16:9
01:29<Chutt>i don't like the 11" height of 2.35:1 movies, or whatever it is
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01:31<tinsley>bigger than 32"
01:31<Chutt>i should've just banned him a few hours ago
01:32<tinsley>my main concern about getting a tv bigger than 32" is moving it :P
01:32<Chutt>that's why i want a projector, really
01:32<Chutt>no big huge box
01:33<Chutt>that dumbasses /. post is as 4 now
01:37<tinsley>any national bricks and mortar sell projectors?
01:37<Chutt>chains? heh
01:38<Chutt>i don't think so
01:38<tinsley>it'd be nice if i could compare in person
01:38<tinsley>wtf are you supposed to do?
01:38<Chutt>order blind
01:38<Chutt>get demos from tiny little hole in the wall places
01:39<Chutt>that of course only want to sell you the really pricey stuff
01:41<tinsley>i wonder if i could get a decent projector off ebay for $1000
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01:42<Chutt>thing about that, is, replacement lamps are really expensive
01:42<Chutt>and if you get something used, your lamp life is going to be lower
01:42<Chutt>at least for lcd/dlp projectors
01:43<tinsley>oh yea, they are usually between 2000-5000hrs
01:44<tinsley>and then i have to get a ceiling mount...
01:45<tinsley>probaly just worth it to get the samsung, when i settle down in a house i'll do the projector
02:02<Chutt>i wonder if 'catch23' is anyone on the mailing list
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03:15<knight__>Chutt, does mythmusic scan the mp3s every time its run?
03:16<Chutt>it does scan the directory tree for new files, though
03:16<Chutt>cvs should be quite a bit faster than the 0.7 release at it
03:16<knight__>what are the major changes in cvs versus 0.7?
03:17<Chutt>mythtv's quite a bit different
03:17<Chutt>mythmusic's not all that much changed
03:17<matr1x>is it all logged in the cvs changelog?
03:17<Chutt>mythtv's broken at the moment, though =)
03:17<matr1x>kicky then
03:18<matr1x>thats my saying
03:18<matr1x>its pseudo-60's
03:18<knight__>matr1x, word. xmame doesnt like a lot of those roms i got from you :)
03:18<matr1x>which version of xmame
03:18<knight__>have you noticed problems with some of the roms?
03:18<matr1x>those cd images are from .61
03:18<knight__>latest xmame release
03:18<knight__>ahh. i see
03:18<matr1x>the latest is .62
03:19<matr1x>lots of changes
03:19<matr1x>just run a rom fixer
03:19<knight__>i wasnt aware that mame releases could only play certain ones
03:19<matr1x>itl fix most of them
03:20<knight__>Chutt, what's changed in mythtv? mainly the encoding/playback split?
03:20<matr1x>its -3C/28F here right now
03:20<matr1x>in canada
03:20<matr1x>where i am
03:20<matr1x>leave chutt alone he's coding you douche
03:21<matr1x>read some docs
03:21<Chutt>and mdz's done a lot of work on graphical setup stuff
03:21<knight__>matr1x you slut
03:21<knight__>i'm coding too
03:22<matr1x>read the cvs-commits mailing list archive
03:22<matr1x>knight, on mythtv?
03:22<knight__>yes and no
03:22<knight__>i'm making some tvtime integrations on my own
03:22<knight__>and working on making an interface for burning files (vcd, cd audio, etc)
03:22<knight__>but i'm actually current coding some of my own stuff
03:23<matr1x>does mythtv keep track of types of shows and try to record similar types?
03:23<matr1x>or is it not that finely honed yet
03:23<matr1x>i just went on a long walk to the seven eleven far away
03:23<Chutt>i don't want to get into doing that right yet
03:23<knight__>hmm, i remember seeing something on the xmltv site about like-keywords
03:23<matr1x>im exhausted
03:24<matr1x>i saw like 12 cop cars
03:24<Chutt>to do it properly would require a central server that kept track of what people watched
03:24<matr1x>stupid cops
03:24<knight__>matr1x, from what? playing with your MAME Cabinet?
03:24<matr1x>im still not done
03:24<matr1x>i was gonna put it on hold til it got warm enough to work in my garage
03:24<knight__>Chutt, another method would be to use keyword matching against their behaviors without a central server like the xmltv site talks about
03:25<knight__>Chut, for example... 10 words in a show's description are "likes"
03:25<knight__>let me get you the url
03:25<Chutt>that'd work if the descriptions didn't suck
03:25<knight__>but it would be very simple to implement a test environment for it
03:25<matr1x>let me think of a simple method
03:25<Chutt>the _uh and _de grabbers get big long descriptions
03:25<Chutt>the _na grabber gets a sentence, if that
03:26<Chutt>err, _uk
03:26<knight__>once my media system is running, i'll have TONS of meta data that I might let you tap into
03:26<matr1x>okay, think of this. shows you tend to like tend to be on certain channels, so why not a channel ranking
03:26<knight__>since user submissions of video content requires detailed meta information, i'll have types of shows, descriptions, relations, user prefereces and ratings, etc
03:27<matr1x>descriptions usually say if something is a cartoon or action or something as well, right?
03:27<Chutt>not always
03:27<knight__>matr1x, do you really want to record everything on HBO just because you watch it?
03:27<matr1x>knight, well, its only one factor
03:27<Chutt>and like, i watch junkyard wars on tlc, but i don't want it starting to record all those medical shows
03:27<Chutt>that'd be.. bad.
03:28<knight__>another thing is this
03:28<matr1x>true. but thats where specific program takes ranking over channel ranking
03:28<Chutt>collaborative filtering on a central server's where it's at
03:28<matr1x>just a thought
03:28<knight__>query amazon web services... there's a lot of these shows on vhs/dvd and they have "other people bought this"
03:28<matr1x>people usually like sci-fi or comedy or stuff
03:28<knight__>you might make a _few_ matches that way
03:28<knight__>it's not like oyu want 100 matches anyway
03:28<knight__>do oyu really want one show you like to trigger the recording of 50 others? or 3 highly matching ones anyway
03:29<matr1x>realistically, a pvr is going to need the net connection anyways for the tv listings so a central server isn't a bad idea
03:29<matr1x>knight, hell why not, might as well if im leaving it on , im bound to be surprised eventually
03:29<knight__>i dont know about you, but i dont have 50 terabytes to record 100 daily or weekly shows
03:30<Chutt>i dunno
03:30<knight__>at around 2gb an hour, and 24 hours in a day, that would add up quick
03:30<knight__>and if you have multiple capture cards, that's getting nasty
03:30<Chutt>i figure if it's not doing anything else, and it can automatically delete crap, it might as well be recording something
03:31<matr1x>enable a certain amount of space for continuous garbage
03:31<knight__>seems silly to me
03:31<knight__>sure, have it record 24/7, but stuff you WANT
03:31<matr1x>well yah
03:31<knight__>not bunch of random "maybe you'll like these shows just because it matches a genre"
03:32<Chutt>that's what collaborative filtering's all about
03:32<matr1x>whats wrong with that
03:32<knight__>Chutt, I'm aware of that.
03:32<knight__>my content will provide that information, eventually.
03:33<knight__>but just matching based on a general type of content (i.e. SITCOM) is certain to match too many shows.
03:33<matr1x>think about it this way. how do you know if youll like something until youve seen it. what basis do you use
03:33<knight__>and with automatic conflict catching, i could see it throwing away a quality show, for some random pile of a show i'd never watch in a million years
03:33<Chutt>that's why i don't want to do it, unless i can do it right
03:33<knight__>matr1x, i agree, BUT
03:33<knight__>maybe record ONE episode of it
03:33<knight__>and if you like it, you have to specify it to get them all after you watched one
03:34<knight__>i'd hate to have 80gb in a matter of 48 hours of USELESS crap i have to manually sort through to get rid of
03:34<matr1x>doesnt have to be constantly recording
03:34<matr1x>just recording stuff it thinks youll like based on your tastes
03:34<matr1x>if you desire it
03:34<knight__>get a personalization engine, and capture user data like you guys are already debating on
03:35<knight__>Andromedia (erm Macromedia) LikeMinds and NetPerceptions are two quality products that do that on an enterprise level
03:35<knight__>i've got lots of experience developing in Java and C++ on the server side with each
03:35<knight__>big $$$ though
03:36<knight__>it'll trend out everything.
03:36<Chutt>the company i work for has a pretty decent recommendation engine, i could just use that :p
03:36<knight__>matching your tastes to other people JUST like you
03:36<knight__>Chutt, or that. who do you work for?
03:36<matr1x>theres noone like me
03:36<knight__>matr1x, i beg to differ.
03:36<Chutt>it'd need to be polished a little, we haven't touched it in a few years
03:36<matr1x>keep begging
03:37<knight__>we've already liked most of the same things man.
03:37<Chutt>damnit, qt is annoying sometimes.
03:37<matr1x>i enjoy the harry potter books and die hard is my favourite christmas movie and i read comic books
03:37<knight__>Chutt, who do you work for?
03:37<Chutt>place called relatable
03:37<knight__>matr1x, i like all three.
03:37<Chutt>mostly audio recognition
03:37<knight__>Chutt, cool
03:37<matr1x>also i enjoy killing baby deer with baseball bats
03:38<knight__>... Hunger Force - 109 - 20021015 - MC Pee Pants.avi: 99.75 MB 11.72 kB/s
03:38<knight__>damn, way too slow =[
03:38<matr1x>hunger force?
03:38<knight__>Aqua Teen Hunger Force
03:38<knight__>it's ncftp, so it's cuttting off the beginning
03:38<matr1x>you know whats annoying, theres an anime called tenchi muyo, and then theres an anime called tenchi muyo galaxy police. the two have no connection
03:39<matr1x>ive heard of that. what is aqua teen hunger force
03:39<knight__>and there's like 4 versions of the real Tenchi Muyo
03:39<knight__>Tenchi In Tokyo, etc etc
03:39<knight__>aqua teen hunger force is on Adult Swim
03:39<knight__>i have complete collections of most of them
03:39<matr1x>but what is it
03:39<knight__>a cartoon
03:39<knight__>on adult swim
03:39<matr1x>why the heck is it called aqua teen hunger force
03:40<knight__>with a flying french fries, a meatball, and a vanilla shake container
03:40<knight__>they talk, dance, investigate, and make your favorite cookies.
03:40<matr1x>howie mandel makes me ashamed to be canadian.
03:40<knight__>you know that you should be ashamed anyways.
03:40<knight__>Blame Canada.
03:40<matr1x>thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard of
03:41<knight__>yeah, but that's because you're from canada. everyone makes fun of canada.
03:41<knight__>i'm certain it gets old to hear it.
03:41<matr1x>actually everyone except the USA makes fun of the USA
03:41<matr1x>the USA makes fun of canada
03:41<matr1x>but thats it
03:41<knight__>but you don't see me saying we're great.
03:42<matr1x>i didn't say that either
03:42<matr1x>i said howie mandel makes me ashamed
03:42<matr1x>but US'ians do say that
03:43<matr1x>i love mplayer. i converted the LOTR trailer to avi
03:43<matr1x>screw you, sorensen
03:43<knight__>xine is nice too
03:43<matr1x>god i hate dr quinn medicine woman
03:43<knight__>but she loves you.
03:44<matr1x>how does mythtv rank shows? is it a thumbs up thumbs down thing?
03:44<knight__>now just imagine, you getting 80gb of dr quinn medicine woman recordings because of some half assed attempt to match similar tastes
03:44<matr1x>knight, that wouldn't happen because i dont have that taste
03:45<knight__>i wasn't ranking your taste, i was commenting on a potentially poor implementation of a recommendation engine
03:45<matr1x>thats like saying, imagine you die of food poisoning because you win the lottery
03:45<knight__>dont twist my words anymore. Kthx.
03:45<matr1x>i didn't say that that idea was the only possible way to rank
03:45<knight__>Did I mention you did?
03:46<knight__>Because if I did, please, ^H^H^H it
03:46<matr1x>alright then.
03:46<matr1x>remember when we used to argue
03:46<matr1x>back in the olden days
03:46<matr1x>good times
03:46<knight__>it was quite enjoyable
03:47<knight__>brought life to an otherwise desolate and quiet evening
03:47<matr1x>simpsons season 3 dvd rumoured for may
03:48<knight__>i'm probably going to sell my season 1 dvd
03:48<knight__>not sure why i bought it to begin with
03:48<knight__>worst season ever made
03:48<knight__>their "gateway" season
03:49<matr1x> i dunno, it was cheap enough
03:49<matr1x>better than the last two seasons
03:49<matr1x>the current season so far is okay
03:49<knight__>Chutt, what is the anoncvs info? I only see a viewcvs version on the website.
03:49<matr1x>i doubt he's even paying attnetion to the channel anymore
03:49<knight__>season 1 was way too "kiddie" for me
03:49<Chutt>it's in the howto doc
03:49<matr1x>poor guy
03:50<matr1x>listening to us
03:50<matr1x>then again he probably saw his nick highlighted
03:50<knight__>Chutt, ok. It should really be on the website under the CVS download section too, perhaps?
03:50<Chutt>no, nick highlighting
03:50<Chutt>knight, naw
03:50<knight__>why not?
03:50<Chutt>then i'll get even more people using cvs
03:50<Chutt>and most people shouldn't be
03:51<matr1x>what does the v stand for again?
03:51<matr1x>and the S?
03:51<knight__>concurrent version system
03:51<matr1x>what about the..
03:52<matr1x>you know that thing for increasing your word power? i think its really.. really.. really.. good.
03:52<knight__>word association?
03:52<knight__>Kevin Trudeau?
03:53<knight__>Mega Memory
03:54<knight__>Chutt, I disagree in some ways. The more confused users are reading the HOWTO documentation anyways, they're more likely to bump into it there.
03:54<knight__>Chutt, on the download page, if you mention the CVS version is most likely highly unstable, and unsupported, they're more likely not to even try it.
03:54<Chutt>people will see 'oooh, newer than the last release! shiny!'
03:55<Chutt>and use it anyway
03:55<knight__>not if it make it clear
03:55<Chutt>no, trust me =)
03:55<Chutt>are you on the mailing list?
03:55<matr1x>"the cvs version has been cursed by evil japanese samurai gypsies. using it will curse your computer and your family with herpes"
03:56<knight__>you don't have anything on the website that STATES that the CVS version is very volatile and unsupported to begin with.
03:56<knight__>but hey, this is your software :)
03:56-!-knight__ is now known as knight-
03:58<Chutt>used to not have the cvs info on the website at all
03:58<Chutt>i didn't write those docs, though =)
03:59<knight->well, i'm going to try cvs mythmusic, and see if it still loads my mp3s every time
03:59<knight->4-5 hours is a long time to wait every time i load mythmusic :)
04:00<knight->also, it doesnt appear that everything is loading anyways... once i get into the list in the gui, i see like 5 songs. heh
04:00<Chutt>well, did stuff go into the database?
04:00<knight->no apparently not
04:00<Chutt>that might be the place to look, first
04:00<Chutt>some of the mp3 support might be broke, though, i dunno
04:00<Chutt>don't have any, don't really care 'bout em =)
04:02<Chutt>everything i have now was ripped in mythmusic
04:03<knight->i noticed that compiling mythtv doesnt seem to use the jobserver, even with -j2 or -j3
04:04<Chutt>i wouldn't recommend compiling like that
04:04<Chutt>bad things are likely to happen
04:04<knight->i've never had a problem with it, and i've used it on many architectures, for a long time
04:05<knight->espcially on a 64 processor sparc system i have access to
04:05<knight->assuming dependancies are set up properly, no huge problems should arise
04:07<Chutt>that's the thing =)
04:07<Chutt>qmake doesn't do all the dependencies properly
04:07<Chutt>i haven't been bothered to try to track down the problem
04:16<knight->how important is libNuppleVideo?
04:16<knight->I can't get it to compile for the life of me.
04:16<knight->some seriously broken time.h includes
04:16<knight->more like, 3-4 conflicting ones
04:17<Chutt>well, it handles all recording and playback.
04:18<knight->fairly important indeed :)
04:19<knight->darn my time.h's
04:26<knight->easy fix
04:44<knight->mythmusic from cvs working fine.
04:54<Chutt>fine as in better or fine as in same as before?
05:38<knight->working completely as it should
08:52<_shad>Still awake? geez
09:28<knight_>i cant get my nvidia geforce2 setup properly
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10:06<hadees>hello everyone
10:07<hadees>anyone awake out there
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10:13<mdz>goodness, all these people with XPs that can't use mpeg4
10:14<mdz>I should swap my "known to do mpeg4 reliably" tbird for one of their XPs
10:14<lichen>hey how does the database support multiple tuners? is it just by the chanid, like 1004 is channel 4 tuner 1 and 2004 is channel 4 tuner 2?
10:15<hadees>anyone in here actully code for mythtv?
10:15<lichen>hadees, a number of us do
10:15<hadees>well i had a revilation recently
10:15<hadees>it seems like there are alot of HTPC interfaces out there all working on the same thing
10:16<hadees>i am not saying they should all merge but if there were like a Desktop Enviorment or somthing that be able to tie them all together
10:17<hadees>so MythTV has the best tv recording i have seen
10:18<hadees>take that part and create a program that only does that
10:18<hadees>and so on with each thing
10:19<hadees>so it would be modular in a way
10:20<hadees>mind you i just thought of this last night and it hasn't been really thought out
10:21<hadees>thats why i came here kind of bounce it off people
10:24<lichen>oh, actually i guess it uses the sourceid
10:26<hadees>so anyone care about my wackey idea?
10:26<hadees>guess not...
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10:35<hadees>come on anyone want to talk theory
10:39<Universe>hadees, Chutt is already currently working on spliting it up to be a client/server... client being the player, server being the encoder
10:42<hadees>yeah but i mean all the projects i have seen have very similar goals, what i want is a common interface where you could use like the mythtv tv recording and like the freevo slide show or mame front end
10:43<bigguy>thats silly
10:43<Universe>that would require all the developers to throw away their code
10:43<Universe>because I am sure none are coded the same
10:44<hadees>well see that why i think a desktop enviorment would work, and if you did it right everyone could code in any languge they want
10:44<Universe>well... considering tivo already offers everything a PVR would need and more...
10:44<Universe>there is no need for what you are talking about
10:45<hadees>so why write mythtv then?
10:45<Universe>I meant myth
10:45<Universe>not tivo
10:46<hadees>well yeah mythtv is a good pvr but there are other aspects of a media computer
10:47<bigguy>Mytv has a music frontend, game frontend, soon a video playback and dvd frrontend and more what else do you want?
10:47<Universe>recording to vcd converter also bigguy.. heh
10:47<bigguy>well heh
10:48<tinsley> wtf
10:48<Universe>and the way myth is, you can program 'modules' for it
10:48<bigguy>hadees: you do have choice
10:48<Universe>like mythmusic
10:48<Universe>and mythgame
10:48<bigguy>hadees: you can choose to help or you can choose another program :P
10:49<tinsley>lichen: you around
10:49<Universe>bigguy, one more, choose to help, another program, or program one yourself
10:50<bigguy>Universe: you just have to have the last word don'tcha ;)
10:50<Universe>of course...
10:53<bigguy>tinsley: whats the deal you are having with the picture? never seen an Albino before?
10:56<lichen>er hahah im here
10:57<tinsley>hey, whats the model of that tv you got
11:03<lichen>which, the big one?
11:03<lichen>Toshiba 57H82
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11:07<deadanimal>if i wanted to overlay somthing ontop of every screen in mythtv and the applications mythtv calls could i do it?
11:08<deadanimal>like does mythtv put all the graphics together before it outputs it or does it grab the display from like mame
11:09<deadanimal>i want to make a new tracker that could stay on no matter what your doing in myth tv but still be able to be controled from mythtv
11:09<deadanimal>news ticker
11:10<mdz>why would you want to have mythtv place this information on every window that it draws?
11:10<mdz>run it as a separate program and put its window on top of mythtv
11:10<deadanimal>then i couldn't control it from mythtv
11:10<mdz>sure you could
11:10<deadanimal>isn't that messy?
11:10<mdz>the point of a windowing system is to be able to have different applications running and displaying things on the screen at once
11:11<mdz>there's nothing messy about taking advantage of that
11:11<deadanimal>well yeah but could the program then know what is being displayed on mythtv
11:11<deadanimal>because the inverse to to have the news ticker only show up on screens the user wants
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11:13<deadanimal>i also wanted to do the same kind of thing for instant messages, the way webtv has them pop up and let you talk to people while watching tv
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12:35<tuscany>did you guys see nvidia released new linux drivers today?
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13:33<itj>Anyone got any suggestions on troubleshooting an intermittent problem I am having with 0.7, basically I'll run mythtv and I'll hear audio. but see no video, sometimes, killing it and restarting solves the problem. sometimes not...
13:36<mdz>itj: does it only happen with live tv, or with playback of recorded content too?
13:40<itj>I can't say, as when it happens it' just on startup of mythtv, uhm with mytfrontend... just a sec I'll check...
13:41<itj><shrug> now everything is fine
13:43<itj>I do remmeber one other thing though, typically when this happens, the hard disk light stays on and it actually seems to be recording as the time/date stamp change (and file size if I delete the ringbuf.nuv file (5gb))
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13:54<gregf>anybody here
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13:59<moegreen>Has anyone gotten MythVideo to work? I've compiled and installed it - changed the search directory to be where my .avi files are - but they don't show up in the list
13:59<gregf>where do i find the mythcrontab file?
14:00<moegreen>gregf: you just have to set one up
14:00<mdz>gregf: did you install from source or from the debs?
14:01<gregf>a little confused with the xmltv cron stuff here
14:02<mdz>all you need to run from cron is mythfilldatabase
14:03<gregf>no flags/options?
14:03<moegreen>gregf: here's what I use, 5 4 * * * /usr/bin/mythfilldatabase
14:03<moegreen>as the mythtv user
14:03<mdz>moegreen: you have mythtv installed from source in /usr?
14:04<gregf>moegreen : thanks
14:04<moegreen>I think I used the .deb from 0.7, but now have the source - this may be broken now :)
14:04<gregf>mythfilldatabase is in my path, so no worries there
14:05<mdz>moegreen: sounds like trouble
14:05<moegreen>gregf: you should probably specify the path - i forget if cron applies your shell settings
14:05<mdz>moegreen: you have /etc/cron.daily/mythtv disabled then?
14:05<moegreen>mdz: yeah, I just looked - it is in both /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin
14:05<gregf>moegreen: k, better safe than sorry
14:05<mdz>moegreen: /usr/bin will be in the path
14:07<moegreen>mdz: which place should it be in? I know the sources install it to /usr/local/bin - is there a reason the .debs are different?
14:07<Chutt>'mornin guys
14:07<gregf>are there any half-ass mythepg type programs for the console? just to view the listings, no connection to myth required
14:07<moegreen>gregf: there is mythweb
14:08<moegreen>which isn't really half-ass, it has a lot of features
14:09<moegreen>Chutt: with mythbackend/mythfrontend my cpu usage has gone up significantly (both on the same machine) - are some of the encoding settings currently hardcoded into the source?
14:09<Chutt>the recording settings are set in the gui stuff now, though
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14:11<gregf>hmm, just not at home now, would like to confirm xmltv loaded properly, haven't fired up myth at all yet
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14:12<Chutt>you can always just use the generic mysql to look at stuff in the db tables
14:12<gregf>Chutt : true dat
14:13<gregf>anybody have trouble fitting their capture card into their box
14:13<Chutt>heh, problems with a full-height card?
14:13<gregf>i couldn't get my WinTV card in this morning, had to remove the cover that you screw down onto the case
14:14<gregf>i have a nice big full size atx case :(
14:15<itj>gregf: been there, my case has a rivet just above the backplane of the last available pic slot, getting a card into and out of there is a nightmare, not to mention skinned knuckles :-(
14:15<gregf>i think i will have to actually cut off the bottom part of the slot cover
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14:17<itj>anyone get around the problem of a lirc remote not beign able to controll mythtv or frontend?
14:18<Chutt>there's lirc config stuff in the howto
14:18<itj>Basically I can startup myth, but none of the command get to the myth window
14:19<Chutt>mythtv doesn't really do anything with lirc, it just depends on irxevent to send it keypresses
14:20<itj>the remote (packard bell) works fine for xawtv and xine and starting lircd in debug mode shows the commands being received and sent to the client (myth)
14:20<itj>I know, that's the problem, the keys just don't seem to get to myth :-(
14:20<mdz>moegreen: /usr is for software that is part of your OS distribution. /usr/local is for locally-installed software
14:20<Chutt>they should be getting sent to the currently focused window
14:21<itj>exactly! but they aren't for some reason, this is a bit of my .lircrc, see anything obvious?
14:22<itj> button = Aux3
14:22<itj> prog = irexec
14:22<itj> config = mythtv &
14:22<itj># flags = once
14:22<itj> mode = mythv
14:22<moegreen>mdz: right, when I orignially installed myth from the .deb it installed the binaries into /usr/bin/ (they are all dated Nov 21st) - I now have been using cvs builds and they all install in /usr/local/bin as expected.
14:23<itj>begin mythtv
14:23<itj> begin
14:23<itj> prog = irxevent
14:23<itj> button = CHUp
14:23<itj> config = Key Up CurrentWindow
14:23<itj> end
14:23<itj> begin
14:23<itj> prog = irxevent
14:23<itj> button = ChDown
14:23<itj> config = Key Down CurrentWindow
14:23<itj> end
14:23<itj> begin
14:23<itj> prog = irxevent
14:23<itj> button = Display
14:23<Chutt>itj, enough :p
14:23<itj> config = Key Escape CurrentWindow
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14:24<Chutt>moegreen, got your patch
14:24<itj>sorry, that's all
14:24<Chutt>moegreen, you did setup the default recording settings in the ui, right?
14:24<moegreen>I did now - it's better
14:24<Chutt>still a little worse than before?
14:25<gregf>anybody here use bittorrent? would be a great way for the myth community to share shows if people missed them for whatever reason
14:25<moegreen>well, the cpu usage is about the same now - the first channel I looked at was fine, but when I changed channels it began to studder a bit, I'll rebuild and try again
14:26<mdz>moegreen: but you're apparently using the mythfilldatabase from the deb, but running mythfrontend from the source install
14:26<Chutt>that could be bad =)
14:26<mdz>eventually it will break
14:26<mdz>maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow...
14:26<moegreen>mdz: yeah, i took out the old mythfilldatabase
14:27<mdz>mixing packaged and non-packaged software is madness
14:27<mdz>probably better to purge the package if you want to install from source
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14:29<Chutt>moegreen, patch looks good, i'll get it into cvs
14:30<moegreen>ok, thanks
14:31<lichen>im trying to get my work to give me a dell 1702fp :(
14:31<lichen>at my workstation i have my dual 700's, my 2.4ghz with a gig of ram, and i have my viewsonic vx900 19" lcd and my dell 1702fp lcd hooked up to it... now i just need one for home
14:32<m0tion> chutt: i was meaning to ask you last night, are you the lead developer?
14:32<lichen>he is
14:33<m0tion>oh, i'm sure you get this a lot, but congratulations, this is a really neat project and i really enjoy the work you guys are doing
14:34<gregf>ditto that m0tion , this project rocks!
14:34<Chutt>thanks =)
14:34<The_TiK>i was wondering if i could just copy the files to another computer and watch them. is that possible?
14:35<gregf>it is so great that this project is so active, makes me excited at possibilites
14:35<Chutt>not from the frontend
14:35<Chutt>if you used the mplayer patch that was posted to the list, sure
14:35<vektor>What's a fast 2d point-in-triangle algorithm?
14:35<vektor>there must be some really easy way
14:36<vektor>without using barycentric coordinates
14:36<Chutt>i dunno
14:36<mdz>probably easy with floating point, but not so fast
14:37<mdz>any guarantees about the triangle, or can it be any triangle?
14:37<vektor>the only real degenerate case is if the points are colinear
14:37<vektor>so, ignore that case, it's easy to test for
14:41<Chutt>lichen, email me (off list, of course) what you want your username to be for cvs access
14:43<Chutt>heh, ok, that works too
14:44<nevertheless>Chutt: how about the patch?
14:44<Chutt>sorry, haven't gotten to it yet
14:45<Chutt>i just woke up an hour ago :p
14:45<Chutt>lichen, ssh to, password is 'changeme'
14:45<Chutt>and change the password, please =)
14:45<lichen>i shall :)
14:46<Chutt>then you should be all set
14:46<Chutt>know how to use cvs?
14:47<lichen>slooowww .... to be honest... not particularly.. i know how to check stuff out and diff and stuff.. but ive never committed anything
14:47<Chutt>yeah, sorry 'bout the speed
14:47<Chutt>i'm updating debian on another box right now
14:47<Chutt>new kde junk
14:48<Chutt>you need to set your CVS_RSH environment variable to 'ssh'
14:48<Chutt>CVSROOT should be something like ''
14:48<The_TiK>(Chutt): where do i get the mplayer patch?
14:49<Chutt>you'll have to do a new checkout
14:49<Chutt>the_tik, mailing list archives
14:49<The_TiK>k, thanks
14:50<Chutt>then, you just change stuff in that checkout
14:50<Chutt>do a 'cvs -z3 ci'
14:50<Chutt>type in a commit message
14:51<Chutt>(should pop up an editor for you do to that)
14:51<Chutt>save and exit the editor
14:51<Chutt>and stuff'll check in
14:51<lichen>okay, so can i onlycheck in from the same place i checked it out to?
14:53<lichen>so should i just diff my current source tree to the one i checked out?
14:53<The_TiK>(Chutt): is it just the source code posted?
14:53<Chutt>the_tik, yes
14:56<Chutt>and turn off that stupid blue stuff, please
14:58<Chutt>eww, nasty new kdm background
14:59<lichen>oh well this shouldn't be too tough, ill try to commit my changes in a bit.. i gotta go deal with a lab at the moment though
14:59<Chutt>just lemme know if you have any problems
14:59<lichen>okay, do i need to worry about like revision numbers or anything?
15:00<The_TiK>how do i patch mplayer with it?
15:00<Chutt>same way you patch anything
15:02<Universe>man... too bad the latest QT for windows isn't free...
15:13<The_TiK>chutt...can u plz tell me the command?
15:13<nevertheless>The_TiK: man patch
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15:26<Chutt>nevertheless, hrm
15:26<Chutt>with the new encoder/player split
15:27<Chutt>i'm not sure if it makes sense to have the wakeup time in there
15:28<nevertheless>think your right
15:28<Chutt>mind if i just leave that part out?
15:28<mdz>wakeup time?
15:28<Chutt>for now, at least
15:28<nevertheless>just leave it out
15:28<Chutt>mdz, yeah, he's got stuff so you can shut down the box, and run a script to, say, set the automatic power on time
15:29<Chutt>if your machine supports that, of cours
15:29<nevertheless>almost every motherboard supports this, exept my new epox one ;-\
15:29<Chutt>nevertheless, i also added a 'no' to the dialog that asks what you want to do
15:29<Chutt>just to make it obvious =)
15:29<Chutt>and to make that the default, in case someone hits it accidently
15:29<nevertheless>you mean like 'ESC' ?
15:30<mdz>I had thought about that, but hadn't taken the time to figure out how to get the remote to wake it up
15:30<mdz>nevertheless: using APM or ACPI?
15:31<nevertheless>I did not try the new server/client version yet (only yesterday, but it didn't work quite well), so I will rethink the wakeup stuff after running the actual CVS again
15:31<mdz>I think I would have to set it to wake up on any activity on the USB IRQ
15:31<nevertheless>mdz: i used 'nvram-wakeup' to set the bios wakeuptime
15:31<mdz>which should be fine if it works, since that's the only USB device I have on that box
15:31<Chutt>nevertheless, cool, thanks
15:31<mdz>nevertheless: where is nvram-wakeup?
15:32<nevertheless>check freshmeat
15:32<nevertheless>or it think
15:32<mdz>got it
15:32<nevertheless>it simply sets the bios wakeuptime to the next recording time
15:32<mdz>hmm...if this is the feature that I think it is, isn't that a time only, and not a date?
15:33<mdz>so you can't put it to sleep for more than 24 hours, right?
15:33<nevertheless>and now, since my new mainboard doesn't work with the bios stuff, i though about wakeonlan, but this doesn't work, too
15:33<nevertheless>mdz: the wakeuptime is set to the date/time
15:34<nevertheless>(most bios'ses support day of month and daytime)
15:34<Chutt>wow, new nvidia display driver, new nforce drivers
15:34<nevertheless>so not more then a month would be supported
15:59<lichen>hmm.. its taking al ong pause while commiting
16:02<Chutt>seems to have gotten in.
16:03<lichen>yeah it appears to have never completed, it just stopped right after single.php ... should i just cancel it and try ot recommit?
16:03<Chutt>was that the last file?
16:03<Chutt>what version of cvs are you using?
16:03<mdz>certain ssh version mismatches have that behavior as well
16:04lichenlichen_ Dec 11 16:04:18 <mdz> lichen: try committing without -z
16:05<lichen>chutt, no it should have addded a new file as well
16:06<lichen>im using version 1.11.1p1
16:06<Chutt>did you add the file?
16:06<Chutt>cvs add filename
16:06<Chutt>then check it in
16:06<lichen>oh, i read the help on commit and it said it would add new files auotmatically?
16:07<lichen>oh, doh, guess i misread
16:07<Chutt>the version of cvs on the box is 1.11.2
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16:13<snippy>anyone know why i would be getting a blank screen with audio when i try to 'watch tv' or watch a recording?
16:13<Fletch>has there been a survey done with what compression settings people are using on different hardware?
16:14<Chutt>several times.
16:14<Fletch>check that the capture resolution is set to something sane (640x480, 480x480, etc). I set it to 500x500 and got just green with sound
16:14* Fletchgoes to grobble the list archives then
16:14<snippy>i have it set to 320x240 to start, is that to small?
16:15<Chutt>if your tuner card supports it, it's fine.
16:15<lichen>hmm i tried cvs add and it says that theres no version here and i have to do a cvs checkout first
16:15<lichen>oh oops, wrong folder, that was my mistake :)
16:15<lichen>err no... it hsould work
16:15<snippy>oh yeah, it's a hauppauge, when i go to the recordings screen i can see the preview fine, but hitting space goes fullscreen and black
16:16<Chutt>any error messages?
16:16<snippy>only one from mythfrontend "strange error flushing buffer ..."
16:17<snippy>i'm running debian unstable, x 4.2.1-4
16:17<Chutt>video card?
16:17<snippy>radeon 8500
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16:17<Chutt>latest gatos drivers?
16:17<snippy>hauppauge wintv vidcap, works fine under xawtv
16:17<lichen>okay coo,l i got it
16:18<snippy>gatos? nope, just the standard ones from X
16:18<Chutt>why do people assume that if xawtv works, everything else should?
16:18<Chutt>that's just silly
16:18<snippy>because i couldn't remember all the modules crap, this card hasn't been in a linux box for a while
16:18<Chutt>does anything that uses xv for output work?
16:18<snippy>i used xawtv to make sure i got all the tuner options right
16:19<Fletch>try xvinfo
16:19<Chutt>well, xvinfo won't tell him if stuff's broken
16:19<snippy>number of ports: 1, port base: 55, etc ...
16:19<snippy>maybe i should change the color depth from 24?
16:19<Chutt>doesn't matter
16:20<Chutt>it uses xv to display everything, which does color conversion and scaling in hardware
16:20<Chutt>sounds to me like that's not working right.
16:20<snippy>any other apps that use xv i can test?
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16:21<snippy>i didn't bother getting dri working
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16:24<kedl>I must say the most obvious thing first of course: "myth rocks"; thanks for saving me from my Windows ShowShifter solution
16:27<nevertheless>what is windows? ;)
16:28<Fletch>I think he means wintendo. you know, the game OS.
16:29<kedl>UT2003 works fine for me in Linux
16:30<kedl>so why is Winblows the game OS?
16:30<nevertheless>it is the 'game OS' , not the 'GAME os'
16:30<kedl>so.... I would like to help develop some of the features I'm itchin' for
16:31<kedl>I can code HTML/php/C
16:31<kedl>C++ doesn't float my boat; but I can do it
16:32<kedl>do I just say "I want to help get the networked live tv/playback working" and someone says "then you need to help me" ?
16:32<nevertheless>so just do what you expect from mythtv
16:33-!-bigguy [] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
16:34<kedl>or "I want more tasks to run in the background: transcoding, music, burn dvd while I do other things in the foreground: channel surf (maybe with no audio), run a slide show, play a game
16:34<kedl>(both of these kind of overlap and have to do with client/server stuff I guess; which I can code/understand just fine)
16:35<kedl>and I hate doing something someone else is already doing; so how do I help/find out what others are doing?
16:35<kedl>is the mailing list really a better place to discuss this stuff?
16:37<Chutt>well, everything i'm working on is in cvs
16:37<nevertheless>you can prepare people using the ML
16:39<kedl>who is working on the IPC stuff between modules?
16:40<kedl>since a lot of what I want revolves around separate programs talking to each other more
16:40<kedl>and I assume someone is already doing something with IPC (change wise)
16:40<kedl>is it all checked in?
16:40<Chutt>as far as it is
16:40<kedl>using sockets? named pipes? <insert something else here>?
16:41<kedl>so maybe something easy to do is make a "task manager" function and get say mythmusic to run in the background
16:42<kedl>and a way to resume/control it
16:42<nevertheless>to watch tv and listen to music in the back?
16:42<kedl>my main reason would be to run slideshows in the foreground
16:43<kedl>but I might (read do) want to listen to music while I'm waiting for a show/game to start
16:43<snippy>urgh, are there any other programs that use XV besides mplayer?
16:45<kedl>so a simple test would be to get the music program running as a daemon, that responds to socket commands like: come back to the front or stop to start with
16:45<kedl>and then a task manager thingy that shows status of daemons and a way to switch to them
16:45<Chutt>something like that
16:46<kedl>sounds like something to do tonight :-)
16:46<kedl>then I can add "dvd burner" daemon; "transcode video" deamon
16:47<kedl>and maybe even make "slideshow" "tv" and "epg" daemons; so you can resume where you left off
16:47<kedl>instead of having to exit as you do now
16:48<Chutt>those can store state easily
16:48<kedl>thats an option; not everything does now though
16:48<mdz>doesn't xawtv use Xv?
16:49<Chutt>mdz, only if you're using grabdisplay
16:49<Chutt>which most people don't
16:52<Chutt>and then it doesn't always use it
16:52<mdz>I've only used it once or twice for testing, and never asked it to scale up
16:52<snippy>chutt: mplayer seems to work fine on mpeg files
16:52<mdz>snippy: using -vo xv?
16:52<snippy>lemme try
16:52<mdz>it doesn't use xv by default
16:53<snippy>hrmm, that doesn't work
16:55<Chutt>might want to try ati's new drivers
16:55<Chutt>or the gatos ones
16:55<Chutt>they should both work, i _think_
16:55<Chutt>i don't have such a card, though
16:56<mdz>is it an 8500 or 8500dv?
16:57<snippy>X reports it as a QL
16:58<Chutt>i need to add keybindinds to mythmusic for the controls
17:04<Chutt>mdz, that sibble guy's got major problems with his computer
17:04<Chutt>i dunno what, though
17:04<mdz>maybe everything is running on one irq
17:05<Chutt>or maybe he's got the FSB set to 100
17:05<Chutt>or maybe he's using really crappy ram
17:07<snippy>thanks, the gatos drivers fixed it
17:08<snippy>although mplayer still barfs, myth works fine
17:08<Universe>so the gatos drivers work with mythtv now?
17:09<Chutt>he was having display problems
17:09<Chutt>xv wasn't working properly
17:09<Chutt>mdz, download count?
17:09<Chutt>since that link got mentioned on /.
17:09<Chutt>kinda curious =)
17:09-!-itj [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:10<Chutt>for the month?
17:10<Chutt>not bad
17:10<mdz>493 total
17:10<Chutt>ah, ok
17:10<Chutt>1200 tarball downloads this month
17:11<Chutt>285 hits from your info page
17:11<mdz>285 from my page to yours? weird
17:11<Chutt>some doofus linked to your stuff in a /. post
17:11<Chutt>instead of the main page
17:13<Chutt>that dumbass that was in here last night posted a semi-coherent rant on /. =)
17:13<mdz>that's rotated weekly
17:13<Universe>lol... you actually look at the comments on /.?
17:15<Universe>so he didn't put in the scroll support like he stated several times
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17:19<Spark^>is there any way to tell mythtv to forget about the audio? i get "only read -1 from 4096 bytes from '/dev/dsp' read audio: Input/output error" probably because the tuner's not set up properly (i extract the audio to my stereo system and pass a composite signal to my bt848 based card)
17:20<Chutt>nope, sorry
17:21<Spark^>okay, so it won't run if its getting -1 back, i assume its just trying to find some audio? in which case i could pass audio into the sound card until i figure out how to get my tuner working properly?
17:21<Universe>well... in order for myth to record audio for playback, it needs to be there.
17:21<Universe>and when you are talking live tv or a recording with myth, you are listening to the playback
17:21<Spark^>yeah, i'll fix it once i can, but i just wanted to see how well my machien would work with mythtv (its only 400mhz)
17:22<Chutt>yeah, you do kinda need to have it recording audio, if you want av sync to work
17:22-!-paperclip [] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:22<Chutt>answer to that is 'not very well;
17:22<Chutt>err, '
17:22<Universe>on a 400? ouch
17:22<Spark^>well that's what i was expecting, but thought i'd give it a try anyway (need to get a new computer soon :)
17:23-!-paperclip [] has joined #mythtv
17:23<mdz>you should get an SMP system
17:23<mdz>I hear they have unlimited capacity and can handle ANY load
17:23<Chutt>yeah, a really fast one like a 733
17:23<Universe>I have 700 p3 and I have to run it on the lowest rez.
17:24<Universe>but its viewable...
17:24<Chutt>as long as you're not expecting much
17:24<Chutt>it'll run
17:24<Chutt>probably not live-tv, though
17:24* Spark^regrets installing alsa (or at least trying to)
17:24<Chutt>but recording and playback should work
17:25<Universe>Chutt... live tv on my 700 works fine Chutt
17:25<Spark^>i just thought i'd give it a go and see how well it recorded (not that the tv card's up to that much)
17:25<Universe>just not with mpeg4
17:25<Chutt>right, i was talking about a 400mhz box
17:25* Universewill shut up now
17:25<Spark^>not that i've got any spare disk space on this box to record to either (got twice as much space on my mp3 player!!!)
17:26<Spark^>anyone know of an easy way to uninstall alsa - think all i might need to do to fix it is remove the modules, but i have to do that every time :(
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17:28<mdz>dpkg --purge? :p
17:29<Universe>emerge unmerge?
17:29<kedl>thanks for the info; cheers
17:29-!-kedl [] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
17:30<Spark^>first prob is to find the script that removed all the modules that are running at present (~100)
17:30<Universe>~100 modules for alsa?
17:30<Universe>something is messed up there
17:31<Chutt>mdz, so, "BUG: StackedConfigurationGroup::raise(): unrecognized child 0
17:31<Chutt>every time i run stuff
17:31<Spark^>yeah, its loaded loads of modules for stuff i don't have
17:31-!-tmk [] has joined #mythtv
17:31<tmk>ello ello
17:34* Spark^hates linux sometimes, like when it'll tell me somethings using snd-cs4232, but not what
17:35<Universe>if you do a lsmod, it should say whats using it on the right.. I think
17:35<Spark^>snd-cs4232 2208 1
17:35<Universe>ok.. nm then..
17:36<Spark^>actually, i didn't have 100 modules, that was the output from modprobe -l... so its not quite that bad
17:36<Spark^>just i need to figure out what's using snd-cs4232 :(
17:36<mdz>Chutt: that would usually mean that a setting is being loaded from the database for which there is no corresponding trigger in one of the triggered dialogs
17:36<Chutt>it's in the recording stuff
17:37<Chutt>i'll look into it a little later
17:37<mdz>I should have that error print the name of the setting
17:37<mdz>I bet it also happens in one or two other cases that I need to check
17:37<mdz>like if I forgot to set a default for something and it's null
17:37<mdz>and it's used as a trigger
17:39<Spark^>oh well, see if rebooting helps, then i might be able to run mythtv with a bit of luck. bbl
17:39<-- Spark^has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1")
17:47<-- Syn-has quit ("* k8 liked it better when syn was too busy working and couldnt play quake | <k8> HISYN | <a|wiseguy> syn has it right, esp un)
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17:52<snippy>any ideas why the osd and the tuner's channels would be one off?
17:54<snippy>the osd channel info is one channel below what the tuner is showing
17:56<Chutt>wrong tuner type when you loaded the module
17:57<snippy>thx :)
18:00<vektor>Chutt: Woop, someone believed you this time.
18:01<Universe>snippy.. you are suppose to say "no, I dont believe you"
18:01<snippy>that remains to be seen
18:02<Chutt>you probably want tuner type 2
18:02<Chutt>rather than what's autodetected
18:03<snippy>i think i remember it being a 10
18:03<vektor>Do you have an ATI TV Wonder?
18:04<snippy>10 is a hauppauge bt878
18:04<vektor>That's not a tuner.
18:04<snippy>i'm right
18:04<vektor>We're not talking about card type with the bttv module.
18:04<vektor>But tuner type with the tuner module.
18:04<snippy>bleh, sorry, card type = 10
18:04<vektor>modprobe tuner type=2
18:05<snippy>i ran out of cigarettes several hours ago before i started with mythtv and my brain is shutting down
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18:10<depand>Anybody have mythtv running with Redhat 8.0?
18:10<depand>When I run mythtv with strace it hangs with a usleep
18:15<snippy>nope, the tuner/card settings are fine
18:15<depand>Does anybody copy me?
18:17<_shad>snippy: which cable setting are you using?
18:17<_shad>canada-cable? :)
18:17<_shad>use us-cable
18:17<snippy>ok :)
18:18<_shad>canada-cable doesn't really exist
18:18<snippy>thanks, that fixed it
18:18<_shad>See, you shouldn't listen to Chutt, he doesn't know anything
18:18* _shadruns
18:19<snippy>phew, now i can stop tweaking and watch spongebob
18:20-!-lichen_ [] has quit ["thats what life is, one big series of down notes"]
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18:41<depand>lichen can you copy me?
18:42<lichen_>copy you waht?
18:42<lichen_>this isn't cb radio here
18:43<depand>I know that but I cant seem to get an answer, and this is the first time I have used IRC. I am trying it because I am trying to get mythtv working.
18:44<lichen_>if nobody answers here i would suggest first searching the mailing list at and then if yu still cant find your answer, post a question to the mailing list
18:45<lichen_>its weird to think that people that use linux have never used irc before
18:45<depand>I have been using linux since 1993 I believe.
18:46<lichen_>i believe you, its just weird that you've never used irc yet have used linux that much
18:47<depand>Do you have mythtv working?
18:47<vektor> /whois depand
18:48<bigguy>lichen_ I know a few long time linux users who have never used irc let alone msn/aim/icq
18:49<depand>Well I use aim regularily
18:49<bigguy>mmmm huge meat balls
18:49* bigguyis afk: Eating
18:51-!-jrh [] has joined #mythtv
18:53<jrh>CVS noob here, trying to figure out if I can get the other myth projects like mythmusic through cvs, instead of just the MC directory?
18:53<_shad>instead of MC, put in mythmusic
18:53<jrh>bah! swore i tried that, lemme go try again
18:54<jrh>yah, I am an idiot. thanks for affirming that ;)
18:54<_shad>Your welcome
18:54-!-_shad has changed the topic to: <jrh> yah, I am an idiot. thanks for affirming that ;)
18:55<_shad>I do my best
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19:16<snippy>hrmm, it seems the tuner's audio doesn't stop when you stop watching tv
19:17-!-The_TiK [] has quit ["(I was using Polaris SE) Version:(3.0) Webpage:( Wasted:("]
19:22<Chutt>snippy, question #4 in the faq that came with the source
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19:26<mdz_>Chutt: so what can I do to debug this problem where my scheduled recording gets the wrong channel?
19:27<Chutt>i have no idea
19:27<mdz_>it seems to be happening consistently with a particular recording
19:27<Chutt>i don't know how that's possible
19:28<mdz_>today I recorded like 4 things, and one of them, though the chanid in the filename and the database is right, is not the right channel
19:28<Chutt>maybe stick a couple debug statements where it changes to the channel
19:28<Chutt>the SetChannel() function in tv.cpp
19:28<Chutt>if you're still using the old stuff
19:29<Chutt>is the channel number right in the database/
19:29<Chutt>that's associated with that chanid
19:30<mdz_>the only odd thing about it is that it probably lost its database connection
19:30<mdz_>not anywhere near the time, but in between the previous recording and that one
19:30<mdz_>(about 12 hours between the two)
19:30<Chutt>wonder what would happen if that query failed
19:30<Chutt>where it gets the channel number to tune to
19:31<mdz_>I just noticed this in the output
19:31<mdz_>DB Error: recorded program insertion failed, SQL query was:
19:31<mdz_>INSERT INTO recorded (chanid,starttime,endtime,title,subtitle,description)[...]
19:31<mdz_>for the previous program
19:31<mdz_>I get the distinct impression that certain queries are failing when they should not
19:32<Chutt>want to write a kickdatabase function to make sure that the connection's up?
19:32<mdz_>looks like it would setchannelbystring("")
19:32<Chutt>can sprinkle that throughout the code
19:32<mdz_>if the query to get the channel failed
19:32<Chutt>was the recording on the last set channel?
19:33<Chutt>then that's probably what happened
19:33<mdz_>it didn't change from the previous recording, which was many hours prior
19:33<Chutt>db connection went away, query failed, it didn't know what channel to tune to
19:33<mdz_>looking at the mysql log now
19:33<mdz_>yeah, I see the query for the finetune
19:33<mdz_>but not for the channel
19:34<mdz_>(immediately after a new connection was established)
19:34<mdz_>I wonder why this only happens to me
19:34<mdz_>maybe there was a bug fixed in newer qt
19:34<snippy>chutt: perhaps the faq on the website should be updated?
19:34<Chutt>well, i never have mine running for long periods of times
19:34<Universe>because not one is running the new copy except you and Chutt, mdz...
19:34<Chutt>snippy, i don't have time, and noone's volunteered to do it
19:34<mdz_>Universe: I'm not running current CVS there
19:35<mdz_>nothing particularly exotic, though it's post-0.7
19:35<Chutt>mdz, i'd like to know if the database connection's isOpen() returns false when the connection's dead
19:35<Chutt>or times out like that
19:35<Chutt>then it'd be fairly easy to fix
19:36<-- rob_chas quit ()
19:36<Chutt>or maybe it'd just be best to stick a few calls to open() every now and then
19:36<snippy>thanks chutt, much better :)
19:52<mdz_>either qt is supposed to reestablish the connection, or else you need to test every time whether it is still open
19:52<mdz_>I have seen qt reestablish many times
19:52<mdz_>the polling query's connection comes back very quickly
19:52<mdz_>dunno whether it fails once
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19:53<Chutt>it reestablishes, but seems to fail the first query
19:53<Chutt>when it does that
19:54<Chutt>it really should be easy enough to fix, but i'm not sure if testing for isOpen() then calling open() would work
19:54<Chutt>or just doing a dummy query
19:54<Chutt>or just calling open()
19:54<Chutt>is best
19:55<Chutt>there aren't that many places you'd have to check
20:01<snippy>mmm buffy
20:01<mdz_>Chutt: I did some tests, and the behaviour is definitely different between the qt on my desktop and the qt on my mythtv system
20:02<mdz_>on the mythtv system, when the connection has been lost, isOpen() still returns true, but the next query fails
20:04<Soopaman>what's up guys
20:04<mdz_>it comes back with "Lost connection to MySQL server during query"
20:04<mdz_>looks like I'll be running unstable on my mythtv box now :-)
20:05<mdz_>could be libmysql I guess, and not qt
20:05<Soopaman>i'm looking at installing 'nix onto my nforce machine, can I use the nvidia linux kernel on a woody machine for sound/chipset support?
20:05<mdz_>at any rate, unstable doesn't seem to have the problem
20:08* bigguythinks about setting myth up on UserError
20:08<mdz_>ohh, never mind
20:08<mdz_>maybe it's TCP vs unix domain, need to verify that
20:08<bigguy>But I don't wanna run mysql
20:09<bigguy>are the calls mysql specific?
20:10<mdz_>yep, that's it
20:10<mdz_>unix domain sockets recover gracefully, and TCP does not
20:10<mdz_>that's why nobody else noticed it
20:10<mdz_>everyone runs mysql on the same system as mythtv
20:10<Universe>not for long :-)
20:11<bigguy>the reason I want to know is I am already using postgresql for a couple of different tasks and don't want to mux with mysql really
20:17<Universe>the calls are qt mysql calls
20:18<Universe>and I dont know if a postgresql is interchangable for those calls
20:22<mdz_>damn mysql for treating localhost differently in the first place, that always bugs me
20:24<mdz_>Chutt: so this sucks
20:26<mdz_>it'd basically have to try the query, and then if it failed
20:27<mdz_>or SELECT NULL before every query
20:27<mdz_>or something else horrible
20:27-!-tmk [] has quit ["bye"]
20:29<mdz_>or, wrap the database API
20:29<mdz_>it's so silly
20:30<mdz_>it is obviously reconnecting, as the next query succeeds
20:30<mdz_>but it's returning an error and dumping the previous query
20:30<Chutt>ok, so a MythContext::KickDatabaseConnection(QSqlDatabase *db) function
20:31<Chutt>stick it before stuff that doesn't happen often
20:31<Chutt>have it just check something simple
20:31<Chutt>should work
20:31<mdz_>s/stuff that doesn't happen often/every query/
20:32<Chutt>how often does it die, though?
20:33<mdz_>every night when the logs get rotated
20:33<Chutt>well, the scheduler should recover fine
20:33<mdz_>it's just that the pattern of my recordings used to be that it was on the right channel at the right time
20:33<mdz_>yeah, basically anything that won't be ok if it fails needs to kick the database
20:38<mdz_>how many times do you think kickdatabase should retry? just give up after one?
20:43<mdz_>Chutt: sent you a patch
20:44<mdz_>I hate it though
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21:03<TheAsp>any cpu guidelines for chosing which of the codecs to use?
21:07<Chutt>does it work, though?
21:08<TheAsp>mpeg4 seemed to max it
21:08<TheAsp>but rtjpeg did too at the time
21:08<TheAsp>but now rtjpeg isnt using much
21:08<TheAsp>only about 25%
21:10<mdz_>Chutt: it works in my test program
21:10<mdz_>haven't tried it with myth, I'd have to add a call to it before every query in all of myth
21:12<Universe>search the mailing list TheAsp
21:12<Universe>the cpu/system topic has been brought up alot
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22:49<t0rn217>i have a question about compiling mythtv...
22:49<t0rn217>i followed the instructions in the docs section up til the point where i make mythtv...
22:50<t0rn217>i get the error : "/bin/sh: line 1: qmake: command not found...
22:50<t0rn217>i dl'd mythtv 0.7 if that helps
22:53<Chutt>you don't have qt dev stuff installed
22:53<Chutt>or improperly setup
22:53<Chutt>or whatnot.
22:54<t0rn217>qt3-devel is installed...
22:54<t0rn217>i'm trying a different profile.d approach...lemme see if that fixes it...b/c i just found that qmake is on my system...
22:55<t0rn217>hmmm...that didn't work either...
22:58<t0rn217>how is it improperly setup?
22:59<t0rn217>i made the script correctly...
23:00<snippy>i never realized how often the simpsons was on until i installed mythtv
23:00<t0rn217>in the docs it says to go to /etc/profile.d and cat >
23:00<t0rn217>setting up paths...
23:00<Chutt>oh, whatever
23:00<Chutt>i didn't write thsoe
23:03<t0rn217>snippy: did you run into these similar problems?
23:04<snippy>no, i just installed the debian packages on a fresh system
23:05<t0rn217>oh...i have mdk 9...
23:05<t0rn217>completely different
23:14<t0rn217>hmmm...well if anyone thinks of anything plz post here... :)
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23:28<lichen_>well.. im bored and way too hopped up on caffeine.. i guess ill bang out some conflict resolution support
23:28<lichen_>ive figured out how all the conflict resolution tables come into play... but if two programs conflict and no resolution has been set.. what records?
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23:30<lichen_>also, im not sure how to support multiple tuners.. like if they have multiple tuners checking to see if the times overlap isn't enough, is it?
23:35<mdz_>lichen_: I believe the tie is broken by choosing the lowest chanid
23:35<Chutt>it's kinda silly for that logic to live in the web stuff
23:36<lichen_>yeah im thinking its not quite right to implement all this stuff into the web interface
23:36<lichen_>i dont really know what an alternative would be
23:36<Chutt>would have to talk to the main server
23:38<lichen_>all i was thinking of doing is testing to see if there are overlaps and basically offering the same functionality as the conflict resolution on the frontend
23:38<lichen_>give an any resolution, single resolution, or an override
23:38<Chutt>you need to know more than if they're just overlapping
23:39<lichen_>well right, thats why i asked how to test due to the multiple tuner support.. i dont really nkow how to deal withi t
23:39<Chutt>like i said, having all that logic live in the web interface is silly =)
23:39<Chutt>could just query the main server
23:40<Chutt>since all that's available from it
23:42<lichen_>it is? how? i thought the frontend just tested to see if there were overlaps at the time you entered the fix scheduling conflict menu
23:43<Chutt>the frontend asks the scheduler for a list of all programs to record
23:43<Chutt>the scheduler marks everything that's conflicting
23:43<Chutt>the scheduler lives in the main server now, so the frontend just queries the main server for all that information
23:44<Chutt>it's just a simple little network protocol
23:44<lichen_>oh, so some sort of lib to interface with the scheduler would be best then?
23:44<Chutt>don't _really_ need a library
23:45<Chutt>but that's all in libmyth
23:46<lichen_>well im talking for php to use.. or just use like php's socket support? (i think php has socket support? im not quite a php master yet)
23:46<Chutt>i assume it does
23:47<Chutt>but yeah, just something simple like that
23:48<lichen_>okay cool, i guess im gonna need to be running the latest cvs before i can work/test that though