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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-12

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00:14<mdz_>libmysql is pretty unreadable
00:14<mdz_>I'm not even sure how it's managing to reestablish the connection
00:15-!-radsaq [] has joined #mythtv
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00:16<mdz_>there are a few places where it will try, but I can't find how it would retry after giving that error
00:16<mdz_>there is even a flag in the mysql context that says whether to do it
00:16<mdz_>bedtime though
00:16<Chutt>probably just best to do the stupid query thing
00:17<mazeone>hey, is this a channel for that freevo thing?
00:17<mazeone>ops plz
00:18-!-ChanServ gives channel operator status to Chutt
00:18-!-Chutt gives channel operator status to mazeone
00:18-!-mazeone sets ban on *!*ijr@*
00:18-!-Chutt removes ban on *!*ijr@*
00:19-!-mazeone removes channel operator status from Chutt
00:19-!-ChanServ gives channel operator status to Chutt
00:19-!-mazeone removes channel operator status from mazeone
00:19<Chutt>you can't do that, silly
00:20<mazeone>i'm a loser, cuz i didn't /kb you
00:20<mazeone>ah well
00:20<bigguy>sup mazewan
00:21<mazeone>how's things?
00:21<bigguy>good here. I'm looking for a job as always ;)
00:22<mazeone>well, i got a job doing irix admin at nasa, but i just got dumped by my gf...
00:23<bigguy>man that suxs
00:23-!-Chutt removes channel operator status from Chutt
00:23<mazeone>it's been a bad week
00:23<bigguy>weren't you married?
00:23<mazeone>yeah, i have a very confusing life :)
00:24<mazeone>my wife and i are seperated and each dating other people
00:24<bigguy>I thought last time I heard from you you were married and there was another hot girl living with the 2 of ya
00:24<bigguy>man its been ages tho
00:24<matr1x>hey its bigguy and mazeone
00:25<radsaq>how come no one says hi to me? :(
00:25<bigguy>hey its... Who are you again?
00:25<Chutt>because you're incognito with that nick
00:25<matr1x>im matr1x
00:25<bigguy>lo SmallSaq1
00:25<radsaq>but I was always the radsaq..
00:25<mazeone>yeah, our lesbian roommate and her gf moved out, my wife is now dating another woman, and i was dating someone until she dumped me
00:26<mazeone>like i said, i have a confusing life :)
00:26<matr1x>i hate when that happens
00:26<radsaq>hi bigguy
00:26<mazeone>radsaq: cuz you're not all noisy like me
00:27<bigguy>matr1x: do I know you from somewhere other than in here?
00:27<matr1x>your nick looks familiar
00:27<matr1x>but its been a while since ive joined this net
00:27<bigguy>I was on ircnet and efnet also
00:27<matr1x>im on efnet
00:28<bigguy>any particular channels?
00:28<mazeone>if you recognized both bigguy and myself, it was probably from #e
00:28<matr1x>yah i used to join #e
00:28<radsaq>I'm RADKade1
00:28<bigguy>#e or #dunno
00:28<radsaq>so you should recognize me too :(
00:29<matr1x>nope, dont recognize you
00:29<mazeone>and Chutt is ...Chutt
00:29<bigguy>radsaq: people try to forget yoy
00:29<mazeone>how could people forget RADKade1?
00:29<mazeone>saq rux saq!
00:29<bigguy>WE lub0r j00
00:29<bigguy>mazeone: I said "try"
00:33<bigguy>mmm green tea sweetend with splenda
00:35<mazeone>i should sleep
00:36<bigguy>me too
00:36<bigguy>but I won't
00:37<matr1x>swiss people make good chocolate
00:37<matr1x>i wonder what their secret is
00:42<bigguy>post coitus expulsions from the female homosapien
00:44<bigguy>man I'm lagged
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00:44<knight_>weird. mythmusic only seems to pull up mp3s that start with 01 -
00:44<knight_>no others
00:45<Chutt>kinda strange
00:45<Chutt>you do have id3 tags, right?
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01:04<knight_>chutt, yes
01:05<knight_>chutt, but i'm sure they arent all reliable
01:05<knight_>too many mp3s to really set each one
01:05<knight_>and some dont have track numbers, or belong to specific albums
01:05<Chutt>i really don't know how it acts when stuff doesn't have full tags
01:07<knight_>ahh ok
01:07<knight_>that's fine.
01:07<knight_>i'll just make sure my mp3s have id3s properly
01:07<knight_>i need to do it anyways
01:07<knight_>does mythmusic prune entries from the db when the files dont exist anymore?
01:07<Chutt>it pretty much depends on them to do all the categorizing and stuff for the selection ui
01:07<Chutt>current cvs does, yeah
01:11<knight_>know if there are plans for other styles of views?
01:11<knight_>like by genre, etc?
01:11<Chutt>that tree is customizeable by anything field that's in the database
01:12<knight_>right, but can there be multiple trees?
01:12<Chutt>as for styles, i want to scrape for artist/album pics someday, and use those
01:12<Chutt>multiple trees?
01:12<knight_>well, be able to choose between styles of views
01:12<knight_>VIEW BY ARTIST, VIEW BY GENRE, etc
01:13<Chutt>all you have to do for that is edit the settings file for mythmusic
01:13<Chutt>don't have any graphical setup yet
01:13<Chutt>there's a line that says 'artist album title'
01:14<Chutt>that could be 'genre artist album title' or 'genre album title'
01:14<Chutt>or whatnot
01:14<knight_>where in cvs version is this "graphical setup" i didnt see it in the MC dir (dont need it, but i'm curious)
01:14<knight_>ahh ok
01:15<Chutt>the gui setup code's mostly in programs/mythfrontend/
01:15<Chutt>but it's not all hooked up or anything
01:15<Chutt>just the recording profiles so far
01:17<knight_>you just choose "Setup"?
01:17<knight_>or do i have to enable something?
01:19<knight_>as for ripping, is there any way to specific a seperate directory for the rips to go? or atleast adhere to a specific directory structure?
01:21<Chutt>it's hardcoded right now
01:21<Chutt>should be fairly easy to make it configurable, of course
01:22<knight_>thanks for the input :)
01:23<knight_>still very impressed with mythtv
01:23<knight_>the quality OSD does it all
01:26<t0rn217>i'm still curious and not having any luck w/ compiling...
01:27<t0rn217>i copied gmake to /usr/bin but that helped for only a small portion...afterwards it gave me errors again...
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01:28<graf008>Has anyone attempted to utilize mythtv on a mini-itx system?
01:29<Chutt>with those really slow cpus?
01:29<t0rn217>hrm...guess i'm beyond help eh?
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01:30<graf008>Chutt: Even the latest M series (with faster onboard mpeg)?
01:30<Chutt>an onboard mpeg2 decoder doesn't really help you encode
01:30<Chutt>the previous ones had problems just playing back video
01:30<graf008>The M series doesn't seem to have a problem encoding / decoding / saving / etc on Windows
01:31<graf008>Chutt: Yeah...but the m series is optimized for doing everything mythtv says it will do.
01:31<Chutt>i highly doubt that.
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01:31<gregf>anybody up?
01:31<graf008>Chutt: Alright...doubt it. The demonstrations of the m-series have it doing this stuff using Windows.
01:32<gregf>i'm getting this error starting up myth (cable is defined, but isn't attached to a cardinput.
01:32<Chutt>maybe with hardware encoder cards
01:32<graf008>I would think that the same could be accomplished in Linux using MythTV...but I could be wrong.
01:32<graf008>Chutt: have you even looked at the m-series?
01:32<Chutt>yes, i have
01:32<graf008>In what capacity?
01:32<gregf>what did i screw up to define cable, but not attach it to a cardinput?
01:33<Chutt>gregf, did it ask you when you ran setup, to attach channel sources to inputs on the tuner card?
01:34<gregf>not sure, i ran that step before i had my tuner installed :(
01:34<gregf>i set something to /dev/video0
01:34<Chutt>well, run it again
01:34<Chutt>you need a tuner for it to set everything up
01:35<Chutt>graf008, got a recent benchmark of the m series, then?
01:35<gregf>ok, running it now
01:38<gregf>how close are we to 0.8? and is that going to include the split client / server architechture?
01:38<Chutt>from a review: CPU utilization with Divx files ran 85~100%
01:38<Chutt>yeah, that's going to work for encoding in real time :p
01:38<graf008>Chutt: I read that review. What I am curious about is the comparable level of CPU utilization on a 500 Mhz Intel system...
01:39<Chutt>you'll get crap for quality, really
01:39<graf008>I know my PII 600 was always near 100% on playback.
01:39<Chutt>gregf, no idea, and yes
01:39<graf008>So, mythtv is not really a solution unless you have a decked out PC to begin with (not as a set-top), right?
01:39<Chutt>decked out?
01:39<Chutt>i dunno, do you consider a $50 cpu decked out?
01:39<graf008>> 2 Ghz.
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01:40<graf008>Is there a comparable software set-up that is as small as the mini-itx, that will actually have enough power for mythtv to work?
01:40<graf008>software sb hardware
01:41<graf008>Or is Mythtv geared more towards people that already have powerful desktop machines who, for some reason, like to watch TV on their computer monitors.
01:41<Chutt>isn't there one of those shuttle small cube cases coming out with an nforce2 motherboard?
01:41<graf008>Don't know..what is the cost?
01:42<Chutt>i don't know, i really don't care about having something tiny.
01:42<graf008>Than that answers my question...thanks.
01:42<Chutt>i've got a audio component sized case that fits a standard full motherboard
01:42<Chutt>fits right in my rack with everything else
01:43<graf008>Yeah..I am debating whether to try to build something small, or just buy a Tivo.
01:43<graf008>So far, no cost analysis has shown a home-built PC to beat a Tivo.
01:43<graf008>mini-itx was my only hope.
01:44<Chutt>that's a silly way to look at it
01:44<graf008>How so?
01:44<Chutt>a tivo's rather limited in scope
01:45<Chutt>if _all_ you're going to do is use it for tv shows, sure
01:45<graf008>Right, to a point. I don't need DVD or Divx playback (my laptop does both of those and has TV-out).
01:45<graf008>All I really need is PVR.
01:45<Chutt>i play music more often than i watch tv
01:45<graf008>I just didn't want to pay for a subscription to record future shows.
01:46<graf008>Chutt: Dreamcast plays mp3s, though
01:46<graf008>and divx
01:46<Chutt>sorry, that just doesn't cut it ;p
01:46<graf008> dreamcast can do more than a mini-itx pc.
01:46<Chutt>the only thing those have going for them is size
01:47<graf008>I think they are a little better than you give them credit for. Remember the review was on a pre-release board...
01:47<Chutt>well, i'm more going by the older boards
01:48<graf008>I think I will try it out, though the Windows solution might be more efficient, since I bet that Linux doesn't support some of the new hardware.
01:48<Chutt>if linux supported hardware encoder cards, then something that slow would work fine
01:48<Chutt>with high quality video
01:48<graf008>Yeah..well, that isn't going to happen
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01:48<Chutt>heh, never know
01:49<graf008>Not until all cable providers already provide similar PVr functionality and DVD players play Divx...
01:49<graf008>The life of Linux...good stuff is only supported after its useful life..
01:50<graf008>Oh well, thanks for your help. My Powerbook will just need to suffice for now.
01:50<Chutt>no prob
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01:53<Tuscany0>chutt, this is the case I'm thinking about using for my htpc. i can handle a standard size atx board
01:54<Tuscany0>it has room for an 80mm in the front and two 60mm fans in the back. there aren't too many desktop cases out there built to handle the heat issues with athlons.
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01:54<Chutt>that might work better than what i have now
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01:55<Tuscany0>and the price is right. with a 300w p.s.
01:55<Chutt>my current case doesn't have an outflow fan on the power supply
01:55<Chutt>which, well, sucks
01:55<Chutt>uses this weird sized power supply, too
01:55<Chutt>so i can't just stick something else in there easily
01:56<Tuscany0>yeah, i have the same one, from digital connection. except i bought it a year ago when it came with a whimpy 200w power supply.
01:56<gregf>i'm supposed to have line in as the capture device and muted correct?
01:56<Chutt>tuscany0, ah, yeah, you said that before
01:56<Chutt>well, if you get that one, lemme know how well it works
01:57<Tuscany0>sure thing
01:57<gregf>i get the live sound when i don't have line-in muted, but no sound when it is muted, line in is also set to capture
01:58<gregf>whatever, time for bed
01:58<gregf>night all
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05:37<knight_>mythmusic should have a flag to not inject new files
05:38<knight_>or missing files
05:38<knight_>and then a seperate program that you can run to injcet and purge at any time
05:38<knight_>like from cron too
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06:15<knight_>Chutt, you know who does I notice relatable is a sponsor
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08:18<bigguy>Tuscany0,Chutt: ypu guys around?
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08:20<bigguy>Tuscany0: was just gonna let you know I have that case from directron and its pretty nice. I was gonna mod mine a little to put a quieter 120mm fan in the fron since there seems to be enough space for one
08:28<bigguy>Tuscany0: also gonna cut out the stamped grills on the back and use ones that promote more air flow
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10:29<tuscany>bigguy, you there?
10:32<snippy>a mythradio module would be nice
10:33<tuscany>bigguy, overall would you say you're satisfied with the case?
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11:32<knight_>quick question.... RecordFilePrefix... that's not where the initial capture goes right? the file gets MOVED to this location?
11:32<knight_>i want to use a network path for this
11:32<gregf>use NFS
11:32<mdz>it is captured directly to RecordFilePrefix
11:33<knight_>oh ok
11:33<mdz>why would it do anything else?
11:33<knight_>i thought pehaps it captured to a temp location, then moved it
11:33<knight_>it would make it easier for me :)
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11:33<knight_>i know that
11:33<knight_>so i can capture locally, then move it off (but still accessable to the recording listings)
11:34<knight_>my local machine doesnt have enough drive space at the moment
11:34<mdz>my mythtv system doesn't have a disk
11:35<knight_>oh ok
11:35<knight_>so it should be fine
11:38<gregf>100 Mbs would be good, 10Mbs might not
11:38<knight_>yeah ok
11:47<gregf>mdz_: you do all your disk I/O over the network?
11:48<mdz>gregf: correct
11:48<gregf>no trouble with bandwidth ? (100Mbs?)
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12:03<mdz>gregf: a typical mpeg-4 stream from mythtv is 2-3mbps
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12:06<knight_>mythmusic keeps freezing during my rips
12:07<t0rn217>has anyone compiled mythtv on mandrake 9?
12:09<t0rn217>when i check my paths w/ the "set" command w/ that of the docs i get PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin
12:10<t0rn217>according to the docs i should have a mythtv/bin somewhere in there...
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12:13<mdz>Chutt: gcc-3.2 (1:3.2.2ds1-0pre1) unstable; urgency=low[...]* A candidate for the transition ...
12:14<mdz>sparc64 didn't make it :-(
12:16<gregf>is there a web-search for the archives of the mailing list
12:17<t0rn217>gregf: on the website
12:22<gregf>t0rn217: duh, htanks
12:22<gregf>that is a great page, looks nice, updated quickly
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12:29<bigguy>tuscany: yeah its a great desktop case
12:32<snippy>any ideas why 30 minutes of southpark would be twice the size of 30 minutes of the simpsons? better compression?
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12:53<tuscany>bigguy, is the power supply quiet or noisy?
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12:54<Chutt>mdz, yeah, heard about that
12:54<Chutt>snippy, rtjpeg? it doesn't do anything resembling constant bitrate compression =)
12:55<Chutt>file size is extremely variable
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13:10<bigguy>tuscany: well they change powersupplies after I bought it. mine only had a 250 watt in it so I put an antec 400 in it
13:11<bigguy>but I replaced the fan in the antec with a panaflo l1a
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13:15<bigguy>if you put any 60mm fans in the back places I suggest you cut out the stamped grills. They don't allow alot of air and make the fans noisy
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13:33<t0rn217_>when i start the mythtv binary it restarts my computer everytime...what's wrong?
13:33<vektor>It restarts your computer?
13:33<vektor>That sounds like a bad bad bad driver problem.
13:33<mdz>t0rn217_: read the FAQ
13:36<t0rn217_>are you talking about the FAQ bundled w/ the source or the FAQ on the website? or are they the same?
13:36<mdz>the one in the source
13:36<mdz>they should be the same, but the website is behind right now I think
13:36<t0rn217_>ok...that doesn't have anything pertaining to my problem...
13:37<mdz>yes it does
13:38<mdz>maybe it's not in 0.7
13:38<mdz>here you go
13:38<mdz>) My machine hangs or reboots when running MythTV
13:38<mdz>- MythTV should not be able to hang or reboot your machine, no matter
13:38<mdz> what it does. If your machine is hanging or rebooting, you most likely
13:38<mdz> have a problem with your hardware or kernel device drivers.
13:38<t0rn217_>oh wow...
13:39<vektor>... or you're running gentoo
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13:41<vektor>Should probably say, "have a problem with your hardware or kernel device drivers, or have applied experimental patches to your kernel which have broken your drivers."
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13:43<t0rn217>dammit...did it again...
13:43<Universe>I havne't had a problem with gentoo and myth so far...
13:43<Universe>you lair vektor!
13:43<nevertheless>same with me ;-)
13:44<vektor>My point was just that gentoo has made it easy for people to apply experimental patches to the kernel, and some of those break the bttv driver for example.
13:44<vektor>That's just my experience.
13:44<vektor>I refer specifically to the 2.4 backport of the preemptive kernel patches.
13:45<t0rn217>my card works fine w/ xawtv and TVTIME :)
13:45<vektor>t0rn217: Regardless mythtv can't crash your box.
13:46<vektor>t0rn217: So it's some kernel problem or driver problem or hardware problem.
13:46<t0rn217>would it crash it if I have it pointed to the wrong /dev node?
13:47<vektor>Only if there was a bug in that driver.
13:47<vektor>Or you're running as root and doing something really bad.
13:48<vektor>Like, there are a few ways you can crash your machine if you're root.
13:48<Chutt>probably sound card drivers
13:48<t0rn217>i did run mythtv as root...
13:48<vektor>Yeah, good point.
13:48<t0rn217>should i not?
13:48<vektor>t0rn217: Yeah but mythtv does nothing bad.
13:48<vektor>Like, to crash a machine as root you'd need to like: open /dev/mem and go nuts, run SCHED_FIFO and do an infinite loop, etc etc etc.
13:48<Chutt>like i said, it's probably your sound card drivers.
13:49<t0rn217>Chutt: you may be right...i have a via chipset and it likes to give me problems every now and then...
13:49<Chutt>lemme take a wild guess and say you're using alsa 0.9rc5
13:50<t0rn217>lemme check
13:50<Chutt>cat /proc/asound/version
13:51<Chutt>still, old version.
13:51<t0rn217>well...i got that from kpackage...when i ran cat it says no such file or directory...
13:52<t0rn217>should i upgrade alsa?
13:52<Chutt>well, if you're actually using it
13:53<t0rn217> would i find out what server i'm using at the moment? i think it may be OSS
13:54<t0rn217>does mythtv use alsa? or does it use what i'm using at the moment?
13:54<Chutt>uses whatever you're using
13:55<Chutt>it just uses the standard oss api, but alsa emulates that
13:55<t0rn217>so it doesn't make any difference whether i use oss or alsa?
13:56<Chutt>long as stuff works, no
13:56<t0rn217>haha...sounds like duct tape to me :)
13:56<Chutt>duct tape?
13:57<Chutt>i'm sorry, i suppose i shouldn't require working hardware and drivers
13:57<t0rn217>i didn't mean any offense...
13:57<t0rn217>are you the developer?
13:58<t0rn217>pleased to meet you..i think you have a great program...and yes i have second grade hardware...i'd really like to figure out how to get this thing working though...
13:58<Chutt>so fix your computer.
13:59<t0rn217>by getting new hw?
13:59<Chutt>i wouldn't know
13:59<Chutt>it's your computer
14:00<t0rn217>i'm just wondering...should i upgrade alsa and use that as primary driver? or not waste my time and wait til i can get better hardware...
14:02<Chutt>upgrading software generally costs less than buying new hardware
14:05<snippy>chutt: no, mpeg4 (sorry for the delay)
14:05<Soopizzle>Chutt, is it possible to use those nvdia kernels in debian woody?
14:05<Chutt>there are nvidia driver packages.
14:07<Soopizzle>in woody?
14:07<Chutt>of course
14:08<Soopizzle>how long does it take for the latest packages to be upgraded?
14:08SoopamanSoopizzle Dec 12 14:08:18 <mdz> Soopizzle:
14:11<Soopizzle>thanx mdz
14:11<Soopizzle>mdz, can i do the same search for ati releases?
14:12SoopamanSoopizzle Dec 12 14:12:34 <mdz> Soopizzle:
14:14<Soopizzle>yeah but ati doesn't return any relevant listings
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14:42<nevertheless>ui :)
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14:57<Spark^>i'm having trouble getting mythtv to work due to lack of xv support in my x configuration. do i need to do anything to get xv up and running, or should it work by default. i've got a crappy old ati rage pro card - so maybe that's why i can't use xv - does anyone know of a list of valid hardware for xv?
14:58<Chutt>most recent hardware
14:58<Spark^>hmm, that's probably the problem - its 4 years old, like the rest of this box :(
14:59<Chutt>might want to try the gatos drivers
14:59<Chutt>google for it
14:59<Spark^>got it... sf...
15:00<Spark^>looks promising...
15:04* Spark^goes to reboot and try the gatos drivers...
15:04<-- Spark^has quit ()
15:04<bigguy>must be used to windows
15:04<bigguy>unless he had to compile a new kernel
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15:12<snippy>you don't for gatos
15:13<snippy>just untar into /usr/X11R6 and restart X, unless he doesn't know how to restart X without rebooting
15:33<gregf>if my wintv picture sucks in windows, is it guarenteed to suck in Linux?
15:39<Kyzoku>I would expect any miracles in picture quality...
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15:49<gregf>would = wouldn't i suppose
15:49<gregf>any sql gurus in here?
15:49<Kyzoku>I've done a bit of MySQL and Postgres work
15:50<gregf>i have table a (itemid, items) and table b (itemid, price) for an auction site
15:50<gregf>how do i retrieve the highest price for each item in table a?
15:51<Kyzoku>I have a feeling it involved MAX(), but I don't know off hand how to structure the query so it works
15:52<mdz>database homework questions are not exactly on topic here
15:53<Kyzoku>sorry, I'll go back to idly lurking
15:54<gregf>mdz: not homework, and not my schema, trying to help my buddy out
15:54<gregf>but no biggie, just thought i'd ask
15:54<moegreen>gregf: I would check out the documentation at, it's pretty good about giving examples for each command
15:55<gregf>ya it is good, used it lots
15:56<moegreen>mdz: for the current cvs, do you see either the backend or frontend seg faulting when watching livetv? I just got a QSocketNotifier: Multiple socket notifiers for same socket 13 and type write - then a seg fault.
15:56<Chutt>frontend or backend segfaulting?
15:57<moegreen>frontend in this case
15:57<Chutt>does it run at all, or just do that right away?
15:57<moegreen>when I restart the frontend and pick 'watch tv' again, the backend seg faulted - "Unknown state transition: 1 to 1"
15:57<moegreen>it was running for a few minutes
15:57<rob_c>First of all I would like to say thanks to everyone involved in this project
15:57<Chutt>yeah, if it dies while in live-tv, the backend keeps going
15:58<Chutt>doesn't clean up properly in that case
15:58<rob_c>second. I was searching the mail list for ways to improve qaulity and I saw a refrence to nvtvout
15:58<rob_c>anyone know where I can find this?
16:00<gregf>is there a list of links to all the third party software needed/useful for myth? be nice to have it all in one place?
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16:00<Chutt>there's links to all the required bits, yes
16:01<rob_c>Chutt: Thanks. I should have looked deeper. My search for nvtvout came up blank. But knowing it was there I was able to find it.
16:01<Spark^>anyone any ideas on why i get an Illegal instruction, immediately after "Using XV port 46" - could well be my drivers for xv being as my card's so old. is there anything else i could test those with easily?
16:01<Chutt>it's because your cpu doesn't do mmx2
16:01<Chutt>turn off deinterlacing.
16:02<Spark^>where do i set that?
16:02* Spark^must read the website...
16:03<gregf>i have no audio, video works fine, i've muted the line in, and turned up the volume
16:03<gregf>xawtv also has volume
16:03<gregf>any ideas on what I'm missing?
16:06<gregf>everything else seems to work
16:07<Spark^>psychedelic colours :)
16:07<Spark^>now need to fix my tv card so the tuner works i suppose :(
16:11<Kyzoku>ever considered adding voice modem support to make a mythtv running system into an answering machine as well?
16:16<Spark^>is there any easy way to get mythtv to select a composite input by default - or otherwise, how can it be changed once its running?
16:16<Chutt>hit c while it's running
16:17<Chutt>there's a setting for the default input, but not in 0.7
16:17<Spark^>might d/l the cvs version once i get going
16:19<Spark^>hmmm, 'c's stopped the coloured bars moving about and caused a load of disk activity. i'm assuming the coloured bars and coloured interference dots above it is just an untued signal, but i'd expect to get a 'picture' of some sort once it comes from the composite output. is there a list of other key combinations somewhere?
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16:21<Spark^>i presume that's only in the source, and not the .deb i've got installed atm?
16:21<Chutt>should be in the docs dir
16:21<TheAsp>what exactly has to be running for it to start recording?
16:21<Chutt>it says that in the readme.
16:22* Spark^finds /usr/share/doc/mythtv...
16:22<TheAsp>so it does
16:22<TheAsp>i thought i saw something refering to cron about it, maybe it was for freevo or something
16:23<Chutt>naw, gotta have the scheduler running so it knows when its recording and stuff
16:23<Chutt>can't really cron that
16:23<Chutt>well, you could, but that's silly
16:23<TheAsp>*nod*, but common
16:24<TheAsp>if it would only stop quitting on me i could stop using xawtv :)
16:24<Chutt>0.8 has a daemon program that just runs in the background that handles recording and all that
16:26<Spark^>hmmm, i'm not getting anything other than these coloured stripes :( (well, i get a green stripe/set of stripes down the left, some coloured static at the top, and vertical coloured stripes elsewhere). the gui thing works okay though
16:27<Spark^>i also get "strange error flushing buffer ..." in the log
16:28<Chutt>so, yeah, you need to get your tuner card working right.
16:28<Chutt>the 'strange error flushing buffer' is just lame being silly
16:29<mdz>at some point, I stopped getting that
16:29<Spark^>ahh, okay, that'll be because of the audio not working - adding the alsa drivers fecked that up, and now i don't seem to have a mixer program when i revert to the standard sound drivers :(
16:29<Chutt>mdz, i get it sometimes, sometimes not
16:29<Chutt>seems to depend on the input audio
16:30<mdz>I haven't seen it in a long time
16:30<Spark^>i think i'll try and fix the tuner, i get similar static in xawtv but its not so 'colourful' (partially cus its in a window so smaller bits are coloured) now just to remember what broke the tuner in the first place...
16:30<mdz>maybe when I switched from 48000 to 32000 sampling rate
16:32<Spark^>i also wonder if my graphics card's got enough memory (8mb)
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16:35* Spark^goes to fix his tv :(
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16:43<TheAsp>i need to get some free space in one spot...
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17:15<TheAsp>is ogg support coming soon?
17:16<Chutt>support for it in what?
17:16<TheAsp>myth :P
17:16<Chutt>no, what part?
17:17<Chutt>why would you need ogg support?
17:17<TheAsp>better compression then mp3
17:17<TheAsp>for same quality
17:17<Chutt>at the cost of like 3 or 4x more cpu
17:18<Chutt>the audio's only 50 or so MB an hour, anyway
17:18<Chutt>totally meaningless when compared to the size of the video :p
17:19<TheAsp>ok, what about other codecs?
17:19<Chutt>for video?
17:20<Chutt>anything that libavcodec supports
17:20<Chutt>no, not audio
17:20<Chutt>i really don't see a need for any other type of audio compression in the tv section
17:21<TheAsp>how do the mp3 quality settings translate into bitrates?
17:21<Chutt>they don't
17:22<TheAsp>what does it do then?
17:22<Chutt>it's always 11:1 compression, for whatever sampling rate or number of channels you use
17:33<mdz>there is one advantage to vorbis that matters to mythtv
17:33<mdz>it can go in Debian :-P
17:34<Chutt>yeah, but there's no way in vorbis to say 'give me everything you've compressed right now'
17:34<Chutt>like you can with lame
17:34<Chutt>unless you really _want_ to wait a few seconds when you startup mythtv for the audio to start encoding =)
17:35<mdz>lame doesn't ship with red hat either anymore
17:35<Chutt>oh well
17:37<mdz>this will eventually mean increased mailing list traffic as users upgrade to RH 8 :-)
17:38<Chutt>trying to scare me? :p
17:38<TheAsp>ogg is only 1/3 slower on my box :)
17:39<_shad>Chutt: Heh, still haven't changed the topic? :)
17:39-!-Chutt has changed the topic to:
17:40<Chutt>fine :p
17:40<_shad>I bet it scared some people off :)
17:41<Chutt>oh well
17:41<Chutt>no big loss, that
17:41<_shad>You need a tag line for mythtv
17:41<TheAsp>ahh, mpeg4 is almost usable with the bitrate turned down
17:41<_shad>As long as they were the people not smart enough to get it to work
17:41<Chutt>probably mostly be people asking why stuff doesn't run on their palm pilot
17:42<_shad>mythtv - now with pocketpc support? :)
17:42<_shad>I'm waiting for someone to come in trying to get mythtv to work without a tv tuner
17:42<Chutt>people have
17:43<Chutt>they don't expect to watch tv without it
17:43<_shad>ya :)
17:43<Chutt>but, they do expect everything else to work
17:43<_shad>well, in theory they could just use a video card with video in?
17:43<_shad>and composite out from the vcr?
17:43<Chutt>i still count that as a tuner card
17:43<Chutt>some form of input
17:44<_shad>Makes sense
17:47<_shad>mythtv doesn't seem to like nfs that much
17:47<mdz>mythtv likes NFS fine
17:47<mdz>NFS just doesn't like you
17:47<_shad>nfs: server not responding, still trying
17:47<_shad>nfs: server OK
17:47<_shad>Don't ask me why though
17:47<_shad>OSS warning: Application mythtv caused too many output underrun errors on audio device #2.
17:47<_shad>Look at oss/docs/README.performance for more info.
17:47<_shad>OSS warning: Application mythtv caused too many recording overrun errors on audio device #0.
17:47<_shad>Look at oss/docs/README.performance for more info.
17:48<_shad>then all I get is white noise until I change the channel
17:48<_shad>but i get picture
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17:55<TheAsp>grr... can you change the quit key for mythfrontend easily? i use alt-f4 for something else :)
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18:00<CrisTUFR_>So this is where everyone hides...
18:03<CrisTUFR_>Awful quiet here, though. I guess you're all watchin' Judge Judy, huh? :)
18:04<_shad>The sound of silence means that everyone here has mythtv working properly :)
18:04<CrisTUFR_>I see. :D
18:05<CrisTUFR_>mdz: It seems to make most sense to attach the contrast, etc to the tuner settings.
18:05<CrisTUFR_>mds: In fact, your point about cascading the default contrast settings to all programs had perplexed me muchly before getting your email. :)
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18:08<TheAsp>so whats it writing to my / every second?
18:09<TheAsp>i set it to write to another drive but my raid keeps going crazy
18:09<TheAsp>tv recording
18:09<_shad>where did you set it?
18:09<_shad>do you see it going to where you set it?
18:10<TheAsp>i set it in settings.txt, and yes it's going there
18:10<TheAsp>and none of the processes appear to have any open file handles on / for w
18:10<_shad>if you stop mythtv, does it stop?
18:10<_shad>if you do a free, do you see the buffers fill up?
18:10<_shad>err. cached
18:11<TheAsp>it isnt using swap if thats what you want to know... yeah it will stop if i quit mythfrontend
18:11<_shad>no idea
18:11<_shad>maybe Chutt knows
18:12* TheAspgrumbles about loud drives
18:12<Chutt>mysql server?
18:12<TheAsp>could be
18:12<TheAsp>don't know why it would need to write that often... how often does it get updated?
18:13<Chutt>it reads that often
18:13<Chutt>i don't know why it'd be hitting the disk, though
18:13<TheAsp>it's hardly using any cpu at all to record when i don't have mythtv running....
18:14<TheAsp>this is nice
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18:15<CrisTUFR_>stupid chris.
18:16<TheAsp>odd, goes from 50% to 90%
18:18<CrisTUFR_> would appear the Channel class might not have the most self-documenting-code-friendly name. :)
18:19<Chutt>what's wrong with it?
18:19<CrisTUFR_>It doesn't really describe a "channel" per-se...
18:19<Chutt>it's access to the channel stuff on the tuner card.
18:20<CrisTUFR_>and calling something like channel->SwitchToInput seems..uhh..wrong. :)
18:20<Chutt>that'd being just a tad anal.
18:20<CrisTUFR_>I know. :)
18:21<CrisTUFR_>I'm still in school. They bug us for that crap all the time. Bad habits...
18:21<CrisTUFR_>Anyway, I'm not 100% sure where to toss my functions to muck around with the contrast/brightness settings in v4l...
18:21<CrisTUFR_>trying to find a home before deciding to write a whole new class.
18:21<Chutt>in the channel class, probably
18:22<Chutt>that's where all the v4l stuff gets accessed
18:22<CrisTUFR_>That's my thought right now. Channel->SetContrast. :)
18:22<Chutt>v4l does call the input a channel, btw :)
18:22<CrisTUFR_>those bastards. :D
18:22<CrisTUFR_>you guys are all teaming up against me. it's a conspiracy, I tells ya..
18:28<Chutt>"Does mythtv allow this anyway - the background recording of a show while another is being played back from disc?"
18:29<Chutt>like, uh, what is that?
18:29<CrisTUFR_>Maybe the person asking was referring to something recording in the background at the same time as doing live tv...
18:30<Universe>he is asking, can he watch a pre-ordered show and have myth do its "scheduled" recording at the same time?
18:30<CrisTUFR_>(so 2 rec, 1 dec)
18:30<Chutt>no, he was referring to playing one thing back while recording something else
18:30<CrisTUFR_>if that's the case, then he'll be glad to know it works, I'm sure. :)
18:31* Universelooks at what he just typed
18:31<Universe>didn't I just say that? :-)
18:31<Chutt>universe, yeah, but i was responding to chris
18:31<CrisTUFR_>stupid irc. :)
18:32* CrisTUFR_blames all technology for his inability to communicate effectively. :)
18:32<Universe>I see...
18:32<TheAsp>annoying disk activity does increase my confidence that it is still running :P
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18:40<_shad>mythtv doesn't work for me anymore
18:43<Chutt>heh, someone just asked what the most complete pvr is on the v4l list
18:43<Chutt>hmm, i probably shouldn't respond =)
18:44<CrisTUFR_>Hmm. Using the same structure I use for setting the contrast, etc, one could potentially also muck with the depth of the capture...
18:44<CrisTUFR_>anyone think that might be useful?
18:44<_shad>Chutt: tell them freevo :)
18:44<CrisTUFR_>I guess dialing down the bpp from 24->16 could buy some people a bit less bus xfer...
18:44<CrisTUFR_>probably not worth much to mess with though.
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18:52<Chutt>it's already capturing at 12bpp.
18:52<CrisTUFR_>oh really?
18:53<CrisTUFR_>that might explain some of the "quality issues" :)
18:53<Chutt>err, no
18:54<Chutt>what bitdepth do you think dvds are in?
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18:56<_shad>Chutt: cvs doesn't like me
18:57<_shad>I run mythbackend, background it, run mythtv
18:57<_shad>it starts playing, stutters a lot, the quits
18:57<Chutt>so fix it
18:57<_shad>even if I set the res to 320x240
18:57<CrisTUFR_>you running debug?
18:57<_shad>I'll have to try again this weekend
18:57<CrisTUFR_>I had the same problem..
18:57<CrisTUFR_>went away after going from debug to release..
18:58<CrisTUFR_>actually, mine would stutter a lot, and then lock when I tried to change channels.
18:58<_shad>heh. 0.7 works fine, so I went back
18:58<CrisTUFR_>Chutt: I just assumed dvds were 32bpp...
18:58<CrisTUFR_>Chutt: (or 24, whatever)
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19:16<CrisTUFR_>dang. stupid v4l wants me to pass a whole struct along in each ioctl...that means I have to remember (and restore) the settings on each startup.
19:16<CrisTUFR_>(that includes the depth, palette, etc.)
19:16<Chutt>you can query the current settings and just change the ones you want
19:16<CrisTUFR_>that's what I'm thinking I'll have to do.
19:16<Chutt>most of the calls there do something similar
19:17<CrisTUFR_>yeah. figured as much. :P
19:21<CrisTUFR_>at least the v4l guys know how to spell colour. ;)
19:21<vektor>DVDs are Y'CbCr 4:2:2, 16 bit per pixel but not RGB 16bpp.
19:21<vektor>Where do you see colour spelt write in V4L ?
19:21<vektor>s/write/right/ :-)
19:22<CrisTUFR_>in /usr/src/linux/videodev.h
19:22<vektor>4:2:0 Y'CbCr is effectively 12bpp, but not really.
19:22<vektor>Like using bpp values is silly for downsampled chroma spaces.
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19:23<vektor>bpp implies each pixel is independant of the others :)
19:23<CrisTUFR_>yeah. unfortunately I never really got into mpeg video compression enough during my numerical computation classes...
19:23<vektor>They don't discuss colour when you discuss compression, usually.
19:23<CrisTUFR_>stupid computer science in the math faculty... :)
19:23<vektor>You mostly talk about coding theory.
19:23<vektor>You discuss colour in colour class.
19:24<CrisTUFR_>not entirely true. we did jpeg. spoke about chroma/luma at length.
19:24<vektor>I took a grad course on colour, for example.
19:24<vektor>Oh, ok.
19:24<vektor>Well it's the same in this case, kinda.
19:24<CrisTUFR_>yeah. i know about those nutty grad courses.
19:24<vektor>Except the JPEG standard is silly in its definition of Y'CbCr.
19:24<CrisTUFR_>i'm taking an undergrad course on rings and fields right now...Nutty as it gets. :)
19:24<vektor>Abstract algebra is cool. Finite fields are useful in coding theory, for example.
19:25<CrisTUFR_>yeah. we were supposed to do "applications" in our course, but our prof mistook a real-world application with a mathematician's application. ;)
19:25<vektor>You're in university, why do you care so much about all this real world stuff anyway?
19:25<vektor>I think you're missing the point. :)
19:26<CrisTUFR_>I like seeing how the academic world meets the real-world.
19:27<CrisTUFR_>School isn't fun for me. I don't know if I'd be here if it weren't for the ability to be in the co-op program...
19:27<vektor>What school do you go to?
19:27<CrisTUFR_>u of waterloo
19:27-!-tuscany [~ctalbot@] has joined #mythtv
19:27<CrisTUFR_>(ontario, not the real waterloo...)
19:28<CrisTUFR_>in ontario, we stole all the good city names. Kitchener (just nearby) used to be called Berlin up until ww2 (for obvious reasons...)
19:28<vektor>I did my undergrad there.
19:28<vektor>Just graduated actually.
19:28<vektor>Well, in May.
19:28<CrisTUFR_>really? sweet.
19:28<CrisTUFR_>i'm done in april.
19:28<vektor>The grad course on colour was the one done by ian bell in the summer.
19:29<CrisTUFR_>that's cool. he teaches gfx now. Used to just TA before, I think...
19:29<vektor>Ian Bell?
19:29-!-paperclip [] has joined #mythtv
19:29<vektor>He taught graphics last winter too.
19:29<CrisTUFR_>I think so..
19:29<CrisTUFR_>by before, I mean probably terms upon terms ago..
19:29<CrisTUFR_>I troll quite a few newsgroups of courses I'm planning on taking.
19:30<vektor>Are you taking graphics now?
19:30<vektor>Or next I mean? :)
19:30<CrisTUFR_>unfortunately I won't get around to graphics. I'm choosing realtime over graphics.
19:30<vektor>What classes are you taking next term?
19:30<CrisTUFR_>My whole "career" in co-op was doing device drivers, so I shouldn't have too much trouble.
19:30<vektor>For ATI?
19:31<CrisTUFR_>In fact, my "full time" job starting in april will be at a driver house here..
19:31<CrisTUFR_>Yeah. Did the ati term in my first term.
19:31<vektor>Oh that place.
19:31<vektor>What's the name of that company again?
19:31<vektor>Yeah, what a stupid name.
19:31<vektor>Are there any smart people working there?
19:31<CrisTUFR_>there will be in april. ;)
19:32<CrisTUFR_>the guys all strike me as pretty smart...
19:32<vektor>And so what do they do exactly?
19:32<vektor>Drivers for what?
19:32<CrisTUFR_>I gauge people on their ability to Get Things Done(tm) more than anything.
19:32<CrisTUFR_>They just write software for anything and anyone.
19:32<CrisTUFR_>They actually do all the display subsystem for the Apache helicopters. That's their really big contract right now
19:33<vektor>Oh ok.
19:33<CrisTUFR_>After working at ATI for two terms, I managed to squeak two terms in at Be Inc before they crumbled...
19:33<vektor>Wow, good job.
19:33<CrisTUFR_>Now *that* was a learning experience.
19:33<vektor>Do you ever go by the CSC?
19:33<vektor>We have a BeBox.
19:33<CrisTUFR_>so i heard...
19:34<vektor>You're just not down with that scene?
19:34<vektor>Do you do any linux development?
19:34<CrisTUFR_>not really. just trying to break into mythtv right now. I'm not the biggest linux fan, to tell you the truth. Talk to anyone who's worked at Be. :)
19:34<CrisTUFR_>If it's for serving, it's great.
19:34<vektor>Yeah yeah...
19:35<vektor>A guy here at dal runs
19:35<vektor>We've had a few philosophical discussions.
19:35<vektor>I'm doing my masters at
19:36<CrisTUFR_>Yeah. Most of the Be folk don't really say much about that whole scene...
19:36<gregf>not 100% myth related, but where can i find info on .xawtv config files
19:36<gregf>not sure how to save my setting with xawtv
19:36<CrisTUFR_>We joked at great lengths about a lot of those "efforts" out there. Personally, I admire the perserverence...
19:36<CrisTUFR_>...but as JLG once said "we don't like to associate ourselves with such necrophiliacs"
19:36<vektor>CrisTUFR_: hah.
19:37<vektor>So, you think Be is dead and gone?
19:37<CrisTUFR_>Of course, he was referring to Amiga then... :D
19:37<CrisTUFR_>Be was bought by Palm. PalmSource (the OS company) is made up almost entirely of Be folk. Lookin' forward to some good stuff from them.
19:38<vektor>Sure but they won't be writing an OS.
19:38<vektor>Well they will, but for Palms :)
19:38<CrisTUFR_>yeah. not for desktops.
19:38<vektor>I mean they're not doing a PC operating system.
19:38<CrisTUFR_>Not a big loss in my eyes. A shame, but not a huge loss.
19:39<CrisTUFR_>MS buys all the top talents in all the fields, so all the OS work that will ever need to be done will be done. :)
19:39<Chutt>too bad palm's going to die
19:39<CrisTUFR_>Apple gets the creative folk that MS doesn't... :)
19:40<CrisTUFR_>Chutt: never say die. :)
19:40<CrisTUFR_>I'm expecting my work with to be quite comparable with the atmosphere at Be.
19:40<vektor>CrisTUFR_: So you're not really interested in Linux then?
19:41<CrisTUFR_>don't get me wrong. Lots about linux interests me.
19:41<CrisTUFR_>i'm just not in the 'linux or die' crowd. :)
19:42<CrisTUFR_>I'm actually quite intrigued by a lot of the stuff like v4l and alsa that has evolved so much over the years.
19:43<CrisTUFR_>nasty, but it works.
19:43<Chutt>yeah, i want to write a big complex api that i want everyone to use
19:43<CrisTUFR_>it's always complexity vs. performance. i am always favouring the latter.
19:43<Chutt>let's see, i think i'll totally change the entire API every 6 months!
19:44<Universe>nothing wrong with that Chutt...
19:44<CrisTUFR_>I give the guy props for rearchitechting it so often.
19:44<Chutt>there's a reason i'm not using alsa in mythtv =)
19:44<CrisTUFR_>some people are chicken when it comes to changing the
19:45<CrisTUFR_>then you get crap like good_function2() and good_function3() for the new versions. ecch.
19:45* CrisTUFR_thinks back to when he had to do some DDraw stuff for the ATI driver...*shudder*
19:46<vektor>Now think about how much work you put into that, and think about some linux drivers.
19:46<vektor>Linux drivers really suck as a general rule.
19:46<vektor>Like, for example, there's no architecture in X to use MMX/SSE code in drivers.
19:46<Universe>good_function2().... wait.. Have you been looking at my code!?
19:47<gregf>grrr, how do i create a .xawtv file?
19:47<vektor>gregf: Use vim
19:47<gregf>what is the format
19:47<Universe>vim .xwatv
19:47<gregf>i know how to create it, but what goes in it
19:47<Universe>in your home dir
19:47<gregf>so annoying it forgets settings every time you run it
19:47<CrisTUFR_>gregf: there's a program, scan_tv i think...or scantv...
19:47<CrisTUFR_>gregf: it generates the xawtv format for you.
19:48<gregf>thank you
19:48<gregf>that is SOOOO lame that i can't find that out in man xawtv
19:48<vektor>man xawtvrc
19:48<CrisTUFR_>vektor: yeah. i read a lot of linux net drivers when I did net drivers at be...
19:48<vektor>It comes with a man page on that.
19:48<vektor>CrisTUFR_: hah, that's _bad_
19:48<vektor>CrisTUFR_: you're not allowed to look at GPL code and then copy it in closed drivers :)
19:48<CrisTUFR_>vektor: it's not bad to read them, it's bad to copy the code.
19:49<vektor>I guess, just be careful :)
19:49<vektor>Anyway, do you think linux drivers suck now?
19:49<CrisTUFR_>vektor: be got burned for doing much worse.
19:49<CrisTUFR_>vektor: no. i think they could be worse
19:49<vektor>yeah did they ever :)
19:49<vektor>Yes, they could be worse, but there are alot of people who care about net driver performance
19:49<vektor>lots of people test that stuff for web servers
19:49<CrisTUFR_>vektor: like my buddy donnie becker. :)
19:50<vektor>but video drivers aren't very well trashed i don't think
19:50<CrisTUFR_>Donald Becker kicks ass.
19:50<CrisTUFR_>I cannot believe the sheer number of network drivers he's authored. Truly amazing.
19:51<CrisTUFR_>vektor: The trouble with graphics drivers is the sheer lack of desktop users in Linux...Simple as pie.
19:51<CrisTUFR_>vektor: once you get ati and nvidia actually putting *serious* resources into it...
19:51<CrisTUFR_>vektor: then you're laughing.
19:51<vektor>CrisTUFR_: I don't think so necessarily. It's the lack of serious desktop users.
19:51<vektor>And serious graphics use.
19:51<CrisTUFR_>vektor: true, true..
19:52<CrisTUFR_>vektor: but unless you get buy-in from the manufacturers, you still aren't going to see great things.
19:52<CrisTUFR_>vektor: when Be had their OpenGL guy going at the Radeon (with ATI's support), he managed to outperform ATI's driver by 2x (in OpenGL performance) under the BeOS.
19:52<CrisTUFR_>vektor: the key is ATI's support. Lots of really wacky stuff on-chip that is left untapped.
19:53<CrisTUFR_>vektor: we could probably be doing a lot more video stuff in hardware if ATI would let the specs fly out to the community.
19:53<CrisTUFR_>vektor: take idct and dct for example...
19:53<CrisTUFR_>and that was just on the rage128...
19:54<vektor>CrisTUFR_: Sure, and lots of ppl in the linux community have specs.
19:54<vektor>It's about finding people who know what they're doing and who care.
19:55<vektor>that's more difficult.
19:55<vektor>oh and people who have time
19:55<vektor>we have a real lack of X developers who have money and time and inclination.
19:55<vektor>and they have enough problems to deal with.
19:55<CrisTUFR_>vektor: bingo. time = money. until you get companies out there willing to support your ass while "playing" with drivers, it ain't going to happen.
19:56<vektor>driver specs are a small part of the problem.
19:56<CrisTUFR_>vektor: and hence my attraction to Driver projects ranging from proprietary embedded operating systems to linux to windows, etc...
19:56<CrisTUFR_>vektor: from graphics, to sound, to networking...
19:56<vektor>Does sound pretty fun.
19:56* CrisTUFR_can't wait to leave school...
19:57<vektor>I was working for Inscriber in waterloo.
19:57<vektor>They were much more fun to me.
19:57<vektor>optimizing graphics code for television. I'm a big video nerd.
19:57<CrisTUFR_>vektor: really? you might have known my buddy randy...he worked with the mac team on some ui stuff...
19:58<CrisTUFR_>yeah. he said that place was mostly graphics gurus...almost all of which took gfx :)
19:58<vektor>I didn't take gfx. I skipped it and took a grad course on graphics with mccool.
19:58<vektor>But yeah, there are some smart graphics people at Inscriber. We'd go for lunch and discuss probabilistic raytracing methods and stuff. :)
19:58<CrisTUFR_> buddy had mccool for his cs251 class...always wanted to ask a McQuestion...
19:59<vektor>Yeah I had mccool for 251.
19:59<vektor>I don't know if I want to go back to waterloo.
19:59<vektor>we were kinda considering it but, damn, i dunno, I just don't really like the city.
19:59<CrisTUFR_>yeah. you have to really like it.
19:59<vektor>Halifax is cool but there's no work here.
19:59<vektor>so as soon as we're done we've moving elsewhere.
20:00<CrisTUFR_>i am really interested about all that neat stuff happening with the research and technology park.
20:00<vektor>dunno :/
20:00<CrisTUFR_>there are *so* many tech companies in waterloo it's not even funny...
20:00<CrisTUFR_>(hiring is another story altogether)
20:00<vektor>Heh, but so few I'd be willing to work for :)
20:01<CrisTUFR_>yeah. that's the problem. alt is really the only reason I'm still here...
20:01<vektor>Basically I'd think Inscriber and
20:01<CrisTUFR_>I don't know if I could ever see myself working for RIM (again)..
20:01<vektor>RIM seems to suck.
20:02<vektor>and quite frankly, as cool as some of that stuff was, it just doesn't seem all that interesting.
20:02<CrisTUFR_>That's the impression from everyone who's not working there. :)
20:02<vektor>Like none of their jobs they ever posted really interested me all that much.
20:02<CrisTUFR_>They are unfortunately way too hush-hush about their stuff for their own good.
20:02<vektor>And I'm really into networking stuff too ;-)
20:02<CrisTUFR_>and they rarely posted the good jobs. :(
20:02<vektor>Well maybe that explains it.
20:02<CrisTUFR_>if you are a distributed systems buff, they'd be great.
20:03<vektor>yeah but.. I dunno.
20:03<CrisTUFR_>again, they're not exactly in the best hiring position right now.
20:03<vektor>Nobody really is.
20:03<vektor>Apparently the coop weenies are having lots of problems finding jobs.
20:03<CrisTUFR_>I was up for working for their OS group, but that whole thing fizzled...
20:04<CrisTUFR_>yeah. coop isn't doing too well.
20:04<CrisTUFR_>but I think that's compounded by the fact that there are too many people in it for the money, and not out of interest...
20:04<vektor>So, you never went by the CSC?
20:04<vektor>Why not? :)
20:04<CrisTUFR_>there are a lot of employers who just don't take the people they interview.
20:04<CrisTUFR_>i phear the csc.
20:05<CrisTUFR_>i try to avoid the third floor at all costs. :)
20:05<vektor>oh come on
20:05<vektor>We tried pretty hard to make that place cool.
20:05<vektor>it didn't really work though.
20:06<CrisTUFR_>i honestly just have never gotten around to it, and mathsoc always scared me away anyway.
20:06<vektor>do you know any of those guys though? golbez/philbo/sdt/jim morrison/... ?
20:07<vektor>mathsoc ppl are scary that's for sure :)
20:07<CrisTUFR_>i know very few people at school...
20:07<vektor>I met a guy like that once :)
20:07<vektor>he like avoided me and htought i was scary
20:07<vektor>and seemed to show up for class and then run the fuck away
20:07<Universe>vektor.. I am scared of ya
20:07<CrisTUFR_>There are some oddities around the math building. I stay away.
20:07<vektor>CrisTUFR_: well you're just a loser then :) oh well.
20:07<vektor>Universe: that's diff :)
20:07<vektor>CrisTUFR_: so, you should, um, help out with some open source projects
20:07<vektor>it's the best way to procrastinate
20:08* CrisTUFR_is here, isn't he...
20:08<vektor>especially in your last year. i did all kinds of open source code in my last year :)
20:08<CrisTUFR_>I have rings & fields monday, and CS480 on thursday
20:08<vektor>what's 480?
20:08<CrisTUFR_>very silly...IS management. :)
20:08<vektor>you're wimpy :)
20:08<vektor>at least you should take nerdy 4th year courses :)
20:09<CrisTUFR_>i needed a light load to get around my part-time work at RIM :P
20:09<vektor>what 4th year cs are you doing?
20:09<vektor>cs480, real time, what else?
20:09<CrisTUFR_>i did 450 (architecture) 448 (db) 454 (distributed) 494 (law) 480 (it mgmt) 452 (realtime)...
20:09<CrisTUFR_>s/did/will have/
20:09<vektor>dang those are all wimpy :)
20:10<CrisTUFR_>architecture was great.
20:10<vektor>i did formal languages, complexity, graphics (788 not 488), programming languages, and something else i think
20:10<CrisTUFR_>hand-optimizing assembly and predicting stalls in pipelines was great.
20:10<vektor>oh yeah, 466: algorithms
20:10* CrisTUFR_shudders
20:10<vektor>oh you did that?
20:10<CrisTUFR_>no. almost died in 341. :)
20:11<CrisTUFR_>I really did want to take graphics, but didn't due to my situation that required me to work part-time.
20:11<CrisTUFR_>I would have been in that instead of distributed this term.
20:12<CrisTUFR_>my next term will be so very easy next to realtime. :D
20:14<vektor>ok i have to go play snes
20:14<vektor>back lates
20:14<vektor>nice to meet you btw
20:14<vektor>i'm billy
20:14<vektor>you're chris?
20:14<CrisTUFR_>yeah. ttyl. i hope snes is via an emulator on your mythtv box. :)
20:14<vektor>i'm not running mythtv actually :)
20:15<vektor>i'm just stealing code
20:15<CrisTUFR_>hehe. :)
20:15<vektor>you should check this out though, for a local waterloo project:
20:15<vektor>the other developer of that is still in wloo :)
20:15<vektor>and we use some mythtv code
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20:39<CrisTUFR_>yo yo, 'sup?
20:39<_shad>Heh. I work in waterloo
20:39<CrisTUFR_>neat. where at?
20:39<_shad>A+ Computers
20:40<CrisTUFR_>oh yeah? where's that?
20:40<_shad>North waterloo, just off of weber
20:40-!-gregf [] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"]
20:40<_shad>We mainly do consulting
20:40<CrisTUFR_>yeah. i think i heard of it...
20:40<_shad>Usually law firms and stuff
20:40<_shad>we supply computers to CITS
20:40* CrisTUFR_shrugs
20:41<_shad>center in the square? :)
20:41<CrisTUFR_>I'm not too familliar with the area quite yet.
20:41<CrisTUFR_>never heard of it put that way before. :)
20:41<_shad>I actually live in guelph
20:41<_shad>I got a job at A+ for co-op
20:41<_shad>I'm taking the electronics technician course at conestoga college
20:41<CrisTUFR_>lots of people commute to the area from guelph and cambridge...
20:41<CrisTUFR_>Oh yeah? How are you liking that?
20:42<_shad>It's a pain in the ass
20:42<_shad>It's good. kinda bombed an exam today though
20:42<CrisTUFR_>yeah. no worries...
20:42<_shad>I had an average of 93% first year
20:42<CrisTUFR_>i only worry when the transcript says to worry. :)
20:42<CrisTUFR_>I had a midterm average of 41% in first year. :)
20:42<_shad>Ya. I shouldn't have a problem finishing
20:43<_shad>Everyone expects me to get perfect on everything though
20:43<_shad>Next semester we're building an i386 controller and programming it in assembler
20:43<_shad>our final project is do design a peripheral, and code for it
20:43<CrisTUFR_>Should be fun. The electrical engineers do the same thing for their OS course here, but on a 68k...
20:44<CrisTUFR_>same difference. :)
20:44<_shad>Ya. I'm glad I didn't have to play with the 68k
20:44<CrisTUFR_>pretty easy compared to the x86 man... :)
20:44<TheAsp>680x0's rocked.
20:44<_shad>yes, but how often will you play with it after youlearn it?
20:44<_shad>I might have to make a mythtv box out of an embedded 386 o/ced to 2gig
20:45<CrisTUFR_>riiiight.. :)
20:45* CrisTUFR_recalls the page with the 486 oc'ed in the freezer with vodka...
20:45<_shad>I have no idea what to do. and it's coming up quick
20:45<_shad>I remember that
20:46<CrisTUFR_>use the 386 ucontroller to control a tv in some way...learn ntsc. :)
20:46<_shad>might be fun
20:46<_shad>and a camera also
20:46<CrisTUFR_>make it run an emulator, like mame (with old pacman stuff) and develop your own tvout peripheral or something..
20:47<_shad>I'll probably just make some remote control or something
20:47<_shad>at the end we have to 'display' our project
20:47<_shad>maybe I'll make a synthesizer
20:47* CrisTUFR_can't count how many 4th year ee students did irman projects for their final project...*sigh*
20:48<CrisTUFR_>a synth would be cool, but the 386 wouldn't do much for ya. :)
20:48<_shad>I made a little receiver, it was easy
20:48<_shad>It would be very primitive :)
20:48<CrisTUFR_> could write chip tunes. :)
20:49<_shad>I just want to finish
20:49<_shad>I want go get back to work
20:49* CrisTUFR_too
20:49<_shad>then I'll move to waterloo
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20:50<vektor>woop, chip tunes
20:50<vektor>CrisTUFR_: You into demo coding?
20:50<CrisTUFR_>used to love that stuff...
20:50<vektor>aw yea
20:50<CrisTUFR_>watching more than doing though :(
20:50<_shad>I loved watching the warez demos
20:50<CrisTUFR_>yeah. the 10k ones. :)
20:51<CrisTUFR_>or the 4k..
20:51<vektor>4k demos are awesome.
20:51<_shad>Back in the BBS days
20:51<_shad>I miss them ;(
20:51<CrisTUFR_>i used to be into the mod scene quite a bit.
20:51<vektor>CrisTUFR_: cool.
20:51<vektor>i wrote a midi tracker
20:51<vektor>that's my tribute to mods and tracking
20:51<vektor>i say that lightly of course, i use my tracker for composing :)
20:52<CrisTUFR_>was in an xm group from toronto for a while...then i went to midi...then i got to work with a real record company. :)
20:52<vektor>do you have any gear?
20:52<CrisTUFR_>reached my goal at 18 with credits on an album.
20:52<CrisTUFR_>then i stopped. :)
20:52<vektor>uh waitasec
20:52<CrisTUFR_>sold my synth just a bit ago...
20:52<vektor>do you know mental floss?
20:52<vektor>or any of those types?
20:53<CrisTUFR_>spoke to him a few times on icq. never met him in person.
20:53<vektor>oh ok
20:53<CrisTUFR_>andrew mccallum. he was a great guy.
20:53<CrisTUFR_>(is a great guy, rather)
20:53<vektor>were you on wnysor or anything like that?
20:53<CrisTUFR_>no. i was part of vsl...
20:53<CrisTUFR_>pretty small...
20:53<vektor>you should have gone to our electronica events on campus
20:53<vektor>did you?
20:53<vektor>electronica in the mc etc?
20:53<CrisTUFR_>i had credits on an album from scandanavia and one from toronto.
20:54<CrisTUFR_>no. saw ads, but neve went..
20:54<vektor>loser :)
20:54<vektor>i did a live PA with my friend dave
20:54<vektor>we brought lots of gear and stuff
20:54<vektor>it was quite crazy
20:54<CrisTUFR_>I'm engaged. Don't really go out anymore...
20:54<vektor>the show we did in the summer was nuts
20:54<vektor>i don't see what that has to do with it
20:54<vektor>i'm married i still go out :)
20:54* CrisTUFR_has plenty to do now...
20:54<_shad>vektor: but you're married.
20:54<_shad>it changes
20:54<_shad>I'm engaged too
20:55<vektor>CrisTUFR_: so what synth did you have?
20:55<CrisTUFR_>Roland XP-50
20:55<CrisTUFR_>that thing was a monster.
20:55<vektor>wussy :)
20:55<vektor>yeah :)
20:55<CrisTUFR_>I got recognized by a record company from a demo i made with nothing more than that synth.
20:55<CrisTUFR_>It did me well. :)
20:55<vektor>it's a rompler right?
20:55<vektor>oh sure, you can make awesome music with anything if you have talent
20:55<CrisTUFR_>yeah. i used my awe32 + cubase audio to do my sampling.
20:56<vektor>but gear is fun, it's a hobby in its own
20:56<CrisTUFR_>the record company actually said the demo had great production quality. that was cool.
20:56<vektor>like of course it's not the gear but what you do with it :)
20:56<CrisTUFR_>i laughed when he said that. :)
20:56<vektor>so you're no longer into writing music, or what?
20:56<CrisTUFR_>the music I did "for real" was pretty wimpy though.
20:56<CrisTUFR_>One album was Temperance. :)
20:57<CrisTUFR_>my fun stuff is lingering around
20:57<CrisTUFR_>haven't done anything from my experiment at d&b in 1st year just after meeting (who would later become) my fiancee.
20:57-!-jrh [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:58<vektor>yeah i haven't really recorded much myself
20:58<vektor>i really like doing live shows though
20:58<vektor>that's where i've had all my fun
20:58<CrisTUFR_>I was always a bit too shy to do live stuff...
20:58<CrisTUFR_>kinda like stage vs. tv acting, I guess. :)
20:58<vektor>it's just great to get a whole lot of cable running everywhere, have the midi clock running, and turning knobs wildly trying to get it to sound good :)
20:58<CrisTUFR_>i always wanted knobby synths, but at 17, money wasn't plentiful...
20:59<vektor>yeah i had the same problem
20:59<vektor>didn't _really_ start collecting gear until 1st yearish
20:59<CrisTUFR_>i used a *lot* of software.
20:59<vektor>but i got lucky
20:59<vektor>when i was in high school, they had some gear
20:59<CrisTUFR_>yeah...i did a lot of stuff at HS...scored some school performances...
20:59<vektor>and so i used that alot, made friends with the music teacher. my msuic teacher purchsed gear for the school board.
20:59<vektor>so we had a bunch of old synths and stuff
20:59<vektor>that's where i learned stuff
21:00<vektor>CrisTUFR_: check that
21:00<CrisTUFR_>yeah. i was in heaven at the record company. all kinds of good old stuff.
21:00<vektor>cool :)
21:00<vektor>what record company was it?
21:01<CrisTUFR_>HiBias Records.
21:01<vektor>never heard of them :)
21:01<vektor>who would be on there that i would know?
21:01<CrisTUFR_>responsible for Temperance, Red5, hmm..
21:01<CrisTUFR_>they won 2 junos or something...not big.
21:02<CrisTUFR_>but they're apparently the "biggest" indie record company...
21:02<CrisTUFR_>run out of the owner's basement..
21:02<CrisTUFR_>very commercial poppy stuff for NA, but more hardcore stuff for europe.
21:02<CrisTUFR_>The guy who runs the place toured in Europe DJing...he was pretty big.
21:02<CrisTUFR_>heavy into the house scene.
21:02<vektor>weird ;)
21:03<CrisTUFR_>Actually, the company is listed on the back of "Toronto Sound of the Underground", a classic CD.
21:03<vektor>doesn't seem like stuff i'd be into really :)
21:03<vektor>i like more techno stuff :)
21:03<CrisTUFR_>didn't think so.
21:04<CrisTUFR_>i feel like a moron. i spent so much time today trying to get my xdm working with x/win32 so I could use gvim to edit code on a better res screen, and I seem to just be using vim at the xterm :P
21:05<vektor>i don't understand what you just said :)
21:06<CrisTUFR_>basically, I am running x just to run xterm...
21:06<CrisTUFR_>(remotely, on my wireless laptop)
21:06<vektor>and your laptop runs windows?
21:06-!-paperclip [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:06<CrisTUFR_>yeah. like the rest of the sane machines in my house. ;)
21:06<vektor>when on windows i use PuTTY.
21:06<CrisTUFR_>but my linux box does most of the work around here.
21:07<vektor>'work'. bah. linux for the desktop!
21:07-!-paperclip [] has joined #mythtv
21:07<CrisTUFR_>I was using putty too, but wanted to do the X thang...
21:07<vektor>Do you like acid house at all?
21:08<CrisTUFR_>yeah. if it's good. :)
21:08<vektor>I just got a 4cd acid house compo. Yeah, there's a real fine line between good and bad acid housel.
21:08<vektor>Alot of it sucks, but fits the form.
21:08<CrisTUFR_>alright. time for some CSI. mythTV is in too weird a state to trust for this recording. :)
21:08<Universe>before myth, there was tivo...
21:09<Universe>and I have it recording CIS..
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21:13<TheAsp>so do i!
21:13<gregf>i am having trouble getting sound out of mythtv, help please! =)
21:14<TheAsp>do you have your capture set to the right input? both unmuted? volumes turned up?
21:15<gregf>TheAsp: i thought you had to set your captured source TO muted
21:15<TheAsp>yeah, you mute what it's coming from
21:15<TheAsp>so you don't hear it twice :)
21:15<gregf>ya, that is what i am doing
21:15<gregf>if i unmute, i can hear it fine in xawtv
21:16<gregf>but i hear nothing in myth
21:16<TheAsp>that happened to me, but it fixed it's self
21:16<gregf>that is handy :D
21:16--> pheller-( has joined #mythtv
21:16<gregf>i get same behaviour from Line-In and Mic
21:16<TheAsp>though i think alsa may have forgotten my settings during that trime and i may have reset it
21:16<pheller->howdy folks
21:17<-- Universehas quit ()
21:17<gregf>super frustrating, everything else works
21:19<gregf>if i UNmute the source, then i hear the sound, but of course it is live, and continues if i pause myth
21:19<pheller->anyone intrested in testing a lightweight linux distribution built just for mythtv once I have it finished?
21:19<TheAsp>pheller-: do i get to test a free pc at the same time? :)
21:20<pheller->heh, no, unfortunately not.
21:21<pheller->I'm currently building it all on a ppro 200, so I need a new machine to test it on even! my componenets are enroute.
21:23<gregf>i just changed my settings.txt to str Codec=mpeg4 and the Height=640 Width=480
21:24<gregf>but i get a floating point error when trying to watch tv
21:28-!-moegreen [] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:28<gregf>are there any sample settings.txt files out there?
21:30-!-moegreen [] has joined #mythtv
21:31<gregf>hey moe
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21:41<dschwarz>Isaac- I'll take you up on that offer of assistance
21:42<dschwarz>When I select "watch tv" I don't think mythbackend is even getting to the code (in libNuppelVideo?) where it creates and displays the TV window
21:42<dschwarz>any suggestions where to start tracing through to see what's going wrong
21:43<dschwarz>[snippet of mythbackend output]
21:43<dschwarz>Probed: /dev/video - Composite3
21:43<dschwarz>adding: as a player
21:43<dschwarz>adding: as a player
21:43<dschwarz>adding: as a remote ringbuffer
21:43<dschwarz>Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
21:43<dschwarz>BUG: StackedConfigurationGroup::raise(): unrecognized child (nil)
21:44<dschwarz>BUG: StackedConfigurationGroup::raise(): unrecognized child (nil)
21:44<dschwarz>[end snippet.]
21:44<dschwarz>that's all I get.
21:45<gregf>if anyone has the time, i could really use some help getting my sound working
21:46<dschwarz>gretf what's the issue
21:46<gregf>just no sound
21:46<moegreen>dschwarz: that would be expected, you need to run the mythfrontend now - or is the backend exiting after that?
21:46<pheller->sound coming out of the capture card?
21:46<gregf>it works in xawtv
21:47<gregf>i've set the capture port in alsamixer and muted it
21:47<gregf>not sure what else to try
21:48<dschwarz>moegreen - I run mythbackend in one xterm, mythfrontend in another, and then select [watch tv], [watch tv] in the myth interface. Then mythbackend emits the "Changing from None to Watching Live TV" message. but no xvideo display window is created
21:48<dschwarz>gregf- you have a cable from your TV card audio out into your sound card audio in?
21:49<dschwarz>moegreen - the backend is still running (no exit or segfault) but nothing is going on.
21:50-!-bigguy [] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:50<gregf>dschwarz : yes, and the sound works fine in xawtv
21:50<moegreen>dschwarz: this happens on occasion, the code is under heavy development. You could try to exit out of the backend, restart it, restart the frontend and try again
21:51<dschwarz>moegreen - what worries me is that this problem was happening with a lot of CVS builds after 0.7 release and BEFORE the backend/frontend split
21:52<dschwarz>I guess I'll have to wait till the code stabilizes a bit...
21:52<dschwarz>I'm running kde 3 for what it's worth. do you think the window manager has any impact on this
21:53<dschwarz>gregf- what sound card do you use
21:56<gregf>via p4xb mobo
21:56<gregf>via 8233
21:56<gregf>but i just got it
21:56<gregf>doesn't it say in the docs to set the line-in/mic to your capture device?
21:56<gregf>i had to set the <Capture> device to capture, go figure
21:57<gregf>it is way down on the right side of alsa mixer
21:57<gregf>wow, i am pyshced now
21:57<gregf>just need more hdd :D
21:57<dschwarz>on mine, I use xmix and Recording Source = line in, and Line In is muted
21:57<dschwarz>great, have fun
21:59<Soopaman>wow, my mythtv just made me dinner!
21:59<Soopaman>i'm gonna go eat now..
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22:59<Chutt>dschwarz, still around?
22:59<Chutt>sorry, i was out for a bit
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23:03<moegreen>Chutt: the problems dschwarz described have been happening to me as well
23:04<Chutt>dschwarz, anyway, i need to know where it's hanging to help.. probably something in the frontend, but i don't know where right off
23:05<Chutt>heh, same goes for you, then =)
23:05<dschwarz>hey, I'm ack
23:05<moegreen>heh - i suppose :)
23:06<moegreen>Chutt: any places in particular I should add some debug statements?
23:06<Chutt>dunno exactly
23:06<dschwarz>it's not exactly hanging - I can hit [esc] to get out of the "tv viewing" mode, back to the mythfrontend
23:06<Chutt>well, one of the threads is hanging
23:07<dschwarz>gotit. So it's the frontend that's responsible for creating the xvideo window. I'll run that in gdb.
23:07-!-jrh [] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
23:07<dschwarz>thx. good night.
23:07-!-dschwarz [] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.8.11 [Mozilla rv:1.2.1/20021130]"]
23:18<Chutt>well, hopefully he'll figure out what it is
23:20<moegreen>Chutt: when running in gdb, I keep getting (no debugging symbols found)... what do I need to remove from the Makefile to get the debugging symbols? I tried removing the -DQT_NO_DEBUG statements, but that didn't do it
23:20<Chutt>flip the comment on the top two lines
23:36<Chutt>i'm just going to let live-tv play across the network for awhile
23:36<Chutt>that should stress it enough
23:37<moegreen>Chutt: approx how much bandwidth does it take up currently?
23:37<Chutt>using mpeg4 @ 3300kbps
23:37<Chutt>it's using slightly over that
23:39<knight_>i wasnt able to capture to an smb mount
23:39<knight_>it segment faults
23:40<Chutt>capturing to nfs works fine
23:40<Chutt>so, unless the smb mount really couldn't keep up with stuff
23:40<Chutt>heh, oops
23:41<knight_>it doesnt even get a chance to
23:41<knight_>it segment faults right after it starts
23:41<Chutt>doesn't get a chance to?
23:41<Chutt>unless it couldn't write to the file, i don't see how that's possible
23:41<knight_>i dont either
23:41<knight_>that's why i was weirde
23:41<knight_>it have full permissions, etc (i've tested many times manually)
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23:46<lichen_>man what the heck, i wonder if my roommates change the WEP key on our access point
23:47<snippy>hey, is there any other software I can use to view the videos?
23:47<Chutt>snippy, there's a patch for mplayer that was posted to the mailing list a while back
23:48<snippy>that's it? it's a custom format?
23:49<Chutt>it's a slight modification of an existing format
23:50<snippy>hrmm, too bad
23:53<snippy>i was hoping to stick my mythtv box in the basement and just watch the videos upstairs on my laptop
23:54<snippy>(which runs xp for a variety of reasons)
23:54<Chutt>sucks to be you, then