| 00:20 | -!- | Kuwanger [nobody@d-72-193.dhcp-149-159.indiana.edu] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:20 | <Kuwanger> | I seem to be having even more problems with mythtv now. |
| 00:20 | <Kuwanger> | I did the whole upgrade to alsa 0.9rc_6, which had no effect. |
| 00:21 | <Kuwanger> | And trying to run a cvs copy of mythbackend ends up growing to about 730MB memory usage. |
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| 00:24 | <rkulagow> | chutt: g++ -c -pipe -Wall -W -g `freetype-config --cflags` -D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DPREFIX=\"/usr/local\" -DEXTRA_LOCKING -DMMX -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -I/usr/local/include -I../libmyth -I.. -I/usr/lib/qt3/include -I/usr/lib/qt3/mkspecs/default -o NuppelVideoPlayer.o NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp |
| 00:24 | <rkulagow> | cc1plus: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/local/include" |
| 00:24 | <rkulagow> | cc1plus: warning: as it has already been specified as a non-system directory |
| 00:24 | <rkulagow> | NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp:22:21: effects.h: No such file or directory |
| 00:24 | <rkulagow> | did i miss a commit msg? |
| 00:25 | * Kuwanger | guesses he'll try the new bttv to see if it helps any. |
| 00:34 | <poptix> | hmm |
| 00:38 | -!- | lichen_ [lichen@128.1.8.67.cfl.rr.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:38 | <poptix> | odd. |
| 00:39 | <Justin_> | rkulagow: where is effects.h? |
| 00:44 | <Kuwanger> | When I patch v4l2 onto the kernel, do I need to make mrproper? |
| 00:47 | -!- | bigguy [bigman@h63.44.102.166.ip.alltel.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:51 | <rkulagow> | chutt: looks like effects.h used to be in libNupplevideo, but cvs and web cvs are showing empty directory... |
| 00:52 | <rkulagow> | ok, just saw the commit |
| 00:54 | <Justin_> | heh, i was just about to suggest that:) |
| 00:56 | <Kuwanger> | So, anyways.. |
| 01:00 | * Kuwanger | crosses his fingers. |
| 01:00 | <Kuwanger> | later |
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| 02:52 | <Justin_> | hmm |
| 02:53 | -!- | Justin_ has changed the topic to: MythTV - http://mythtv.org/ - PVR software for linux |
| 02:53 | <Justin_> | :) |
| 02:54 | -!- | Justin_ has changed the topic to: MythTV - http://mythtv.org/ - PVR for linux |
| 02:54 | <Justin_> | much better:) |
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| 04:52 | -!- | billytwowilly [~chris@24.86.147.220] has joined #mythtv |
| 04:54 | <billytwowilly> | anyone awake to tell me how development of mythtv is going? is enough stuff happening to justify a release soon? |
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| 09:16 | <hurdel> | billytwowilly : i think the next release is pretty close |
| 09:16 | <hurdel> | the frontend/backend split seems just about finished |
| 09:16 | <hurdel> | i'm running a cvs copy with the backend on a diff machine from frontend, and it works great, it's really quite amazing |
| 10:04 | -!- | rcaskey_ [~rcaskey@adsl-81-40-186.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 10:21 | <rkulagow> | morning. chutt, are you here? |
| 10:26 | -!- | rcaskey__ [~rcaskey@adsl-81-49-70.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 10:29 | <mdz_> | hey guys I want to record 3 channels at once, how can I fit 3 tuner cards into my shuttle micro-atx box with a VIA C3 processor? |
| 10:29 | <mdz_> | ok I'll just use USB |
| 10:29 | <mdz_> | it is time to create a second mythtv mailing list, methinks |
| 10:30 | <rkulagow> | why is the lindows guy recompiling qt? |
| 10:30 | <Chutt> | hey guys |
| 10:30 | <rkulagow> | morning. |
| 10:31 | -!- | rcaskey__ is now known as rcaskey |
| 10:32 | <rkulagow> | chutt: is there someplace in mythfrontend setup that the mixer choice should go? i'm assuming that this is going to be a mythfrontend thing, since it may be different on different frontends. would "General" be ok with you? |
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| 10:32 | <Chutt> | in playback, with the dsp device setting |
| 10:32 | <rkulagow> | ok. |
| 10:32 | <rkulagow> | thanks. |
| 10:33 | <rkulagow> | did you see this? |
| 10:33 | <rkulagow> | *** Justin_ has changed the topic on channel #mythtv to MythTV - http://mythtv.org/ - PVR software for linux |
| 10:33 | <rkulagow> | <Justin_> :) |
| 10:33 | <rkulagow> | *** Justin_ has changed the topic on channel #mythtv to MythTV - http://mythtv.org/ - PVR for linux |
| 10:34 | <mdz_> | I think the topic was empty for some reason at that point |
| 10:36 | * Justin_ | hides |
| 10:38 | <mdz_> | seriously though, xbox roxx0rz and I think it would make the bestest pvr evar!! |
| 10:39 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 10:39 | <Chutt> | yeah, i'll ask snowman to make a new list |
| 10:41 | <mdz_> | I think there are enough people answering questions on the list that you wouldn't need to subscribe to the user list |
| 10:41 | <Chutt> | i'll ask on the list if people want me to just mass subscribe them to the other one |
| 10:41 | <rkulagow> | i just remember that chutt got pissed when someone changed it to "chutt is god" or something like that... |
| 10:41 | <Chutt> | then people can unsubscribe themselves as they wish |
| 10:41 | <Chutt> | or i could just leave it empty |
| 10:42 | <Chutt> | i'm just worried that people will use the -dev list instead |
| 10:42 | <rkulagow> | mdz: did you think about paypal or something simlar for new h/w? people might chip in... |
| 10:42 | <mdz_> | could move everyone to the user list and let them resubscribe to -dev |
| 10:43 | <mdz_> | rkulagow: nah, I still have some hope that I can figure out the problem and fix it |
| 10:43 | <rkulagow> | ok. |
| 10:43 | <rkulagow> | but maybe someone would send you an xbox! |
| 10:47 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 10:47 | <Chutt> | mdz, so, i'm going to convert things to a global context next |
| 10:48 | <Chutt> | it'll make finishing up remote icons much easier |
| 10:50 | <mdz_> | Chutt: mythtv will shrink by a few thousand lines of code |
| 10:50 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 10:50 | <Chutt> | naw, i doubt that |
| 10:52 | <mdz_> | maybe it's just a CPU temperature issue |
| 10:52 | <mdz_> | dunno what I can do about that really, though |
| 10:52 | <Chutt> | power supply could be going as well |
| 10:52 | <mdz_> | it has a heatsink and fan, and I put them on with the good thermal stuff |
| 10:52 | <mdz_> | yeah, possible...I haven't checked the voltages under load, they're fine at idle |
| 10:53 | <mdz_> | I hate hardware |
| 10:53 | <Chutt> | power supply should be relatively easy to test |
| 10:53 | <Chutt> | assuming you've got another box around |
| 10:53 | <mdz_> | I think I have an extra one stashed away |
| 10:54 | <mdz_> | I wish this lm-sensors crap actually worked |
| 10:54 | <mdz_> | then I could monitor the temperature |
| 10:55 | <mdz_> | hmm, it looks like they added support for my chipset in the new release |
| 11:25 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 11:30 | <rcaskey> | Chutt: you should be a middle man for ir-blasters, remotes, and the like. You could sell em on the web site for some extra cash, and you could provide default menu configs for people who didn't want to spend their time setting up mappings |
| 11:31 | <Chutt> | or, i couldn't |
| 11:31 | <Chutt> | =) |
| 11:31 | <rcaskey> | couldn't? |
| 11:31 | <Chutt> | i wouldn't want to do that |
| 11:31 | <rcaskey> | yeah, well that's not exaclty the same as couldn't ;P |
| 12:09 | <Chutt> | mdz, 200 lines removed by converting to a global context |
| 12:10 | <Chutt> | in all of MC/, haven't done the other modules |
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| 13:20 | <mdz_> | that is significant |
| 13:20 | -!- | Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 13:26 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 13:26 | <Chutt> | that freeplaytv guy took off the announcement of his own pvr project on his webpage |
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| 13:31 | <mdz_> | what's left on your hit list for 0.8? |
| 13:31 | <mdz_> | I remember you wanted the preview pixmaps to work again, and the remote bookmarks |
| 13:32 | <Chutt> | per-host frontend settings and multiple backends |
| 13:33 | <Chutt> | then a bunch of bug fixing |
| 13:41 | <mdz_> | per-host frontend settings should be pretty easy |
| 13:41 | <mdz_> | assuming that all frontends start with the defaults |
| 13:41 | <Chutt> | yup |
| 13:42 | <mdz_> | what about per-host backend settings? I hope not... |
| 13:42 | <Chutt> | only thing that should be per-host is the ip address |
| 13:42 | <Chutt> | and maybe some functionality to choose a recording profile based on the hostname |
| 13:50 | <mdz_> | I'm not really going to be able to work on the recording editor for a while |
| 13:51 | <mdz_> | if you finish your stuff and want to release, it might be better to disable the new profile creation feature and only have one profile |
| 13:52 | <rkulagow> | chutt: i'm 90% there with the sound / volume mixer thing. are you thinking of a soonish release (as in today, or is there still time?) |
| 13:52 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 13:52 | <Chutt> | couple weeks |
| 13:52 | <rkulagow> | whew. ok. |
| 13:53 | <rkulagow> | i've got globalsettings doing the right thing, and the database is now updated correctly; just working on the last bit of stuff with tv_play |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | chutt: did I screw something up? |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/mythtv/myth-0.8/MC/programs/mythtv' |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | g++ -c -pipe -Wall -W -g -D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DPREFIX=\"/usr/local\" -DEXTRA_LOCKING -DMMX -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -I/usr/local/include -I../../libs/libmythtv -I../../libs -I/usr/lib/qt3/include -I/usr/lib/qt3/mkspecs/default -o main.o main.cpp |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | cc1plus: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/local/include" |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | cc1plus: warning: as it has already been specified as a non-system directory |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | main.cpp: In function `int main(int, char**)': |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | main.cpp:41: no matching function for call to `TV::TV(MythContext*&, QSqlDatabase*&)' |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | ../../libs/libmythtv/tv_play.h:23: candidates are: TV::TV(const TV&) |
| 14:09 | <rkulagow> | ../../libs/libmythtv/tv_play.h:25: TV::TV(MythContext*) |
| 14:10 | <rkulagow> | i've synced to cvs, as far as i know. |
| 14:10 | <rkulagow> | wait a sec. |
| 14:13 | <rkulagow> | nope; removed mythtv/main.cpp, checked out MC again, same issue. |
| 14:13 | <Chutt> | you're not synced to cvs, though |
| 14:13 | <Chutt> | you've modified tv_play.h |
| 14:14 | <rkulagow> | thought i merged the diffs already; may have f'ed it up. |
| 14:27 | <Chutt> | two more modules to convert... |
| 14:36 | <mdz_> | "I absolutely need fast response when changing channels" "people seem to be using these 'jacked' machines that are overkill for my purposes" |
| 14:37 | <Chutt> | hehe |
| 14:38 | <mdz_> | I thought 'jacked' meant stolen |
| 14:38 | <mdz_> | kids these days, I can't keep up with the slang |
| 14:39 | <poptix> | heh |
| 14:39 | <Chutt> | it's all these poor people that are making the mailing list suck |
| 14:39 | <poptix> | Chutt: i've noticed that if i attempt to overly optimize my build flags that there's some stuttering in the video and audio |
| 14:39 | <Chutt> | "i don't want to spend $200 to get a real machine" |
| 14:40 | <poptix> | is there some time sensitive loop in there that's going a little too fast then blocking? |
| 14:40 | <Chutt> | poptix, yeah, optimizations aren't always good =) |
| 14:40 | <mdz_> | what you're probably finding is that when you attempt to overly optimize your build flags, you end up with slower code |
| 14:41 | <poptix> | mdz_: somehow i thought that optimizing for a 386 wasn't the best idea =p |
| 14:41 | <mdz_> | poptix: dunno what software you're talking about, but the default for mythtv is to optimize for 686 |
| 14:41 | <Chutt> | poptix, what's likely happening is that the optimizations are producing larger chunks of code |
| 14:42 | <mdz_> | the source of all the "it breaks on my VIA C3" complaints |
| 14:42 | <Chutt> | which overflow the cache, and cause extra memory hits and stuff |
| 14:42 | <poptix> | i prefer -march=athlon-xp |
| 14:42 | <mdz_> | I'm sure |
| 14:43 | <mdz_> | have you noticed that it doesn't make any difference for mythtv? |
| 14:43 | <Chutt> | actually, there's really no reason for most of the code to be compiled with the optimizations that is has |
| 14:43 | <mdz_> | -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer would be fine |
| 14:44 | <Chutt> | allright |
| 14:44 | <Chutt> | time for mass checkins |
| 14:46 | <poptix> | mdz_: actually by just changing from -march=pentium-pro to athlon-xp it has, on average, used a bit less cpu |
| 14:46 | <poptix> | i think mucking with -O caused the current issues |
| 14:49 | <poptix> | rebuilding the qt package also improved the response time of the EPG by a noticable amount |
| 14:49 | <Chutt> | mdz, all told, 340 fewer lines |
| 14:52 | <mdz_> | big commit |
| 14:53 | <Chutt> | touched pretty much everything |
| 14:53 | <mdz_> | poptix: hard numbers please |
| 14:53 | <Chutt> | the diff was only 7153 lines =0 |
| 14:53 | <Chutt> | err, =) |
| 14:54 | <poptix> | mdz_: give me a good way to benchmark |
| 14:54 | <poptix> | mdz_: the only benchmark i have is 1) top output and 2) being able to load mozilla without having live tv stutter |
| 14:55 | * Justin_ | got his tv card :-D |
| 14:56 | * Justin_ | runs halt for the 3rd time in a year or so:-D |
| 14:56 | -!- | Justin_ [] has quit ["bbs :-D"] |
| 14:57 | <mdz_> | those are not benchmarks |
| 14:57 | <mdz_> | anything other than a repeatable test is not useful for comparison |
| 14:57 | <poptix> | mdz_: give me a way to provide benchmarks that will satisfy you. |
| 14:57 | <mdz_> | poptix: give me a benchmark |
| 14:57 | <mdz_> | I have nothing to prove |
| 14:58 | <mdz_> | write a program which will execute an exact series of steps, involving the operations that you claim are faster with the optimizations, measure its execution time, and send me a copy of the program so that I can run it as well |
| 14:58 | <mdz_> | mythtv is open source, so you could use parts of mythtv in the program to show that they are faster |
| 14:59 | -!- | Kuwanger [nobody@d-72-193.dhcp-149-159.indiana.edu] has joined #mythtv |
| 14:59 | <Chutt> | heh, ups came a day early |
| 14:59 | <Kuwanger> | Good news and bad news for me. The good news is the new bttv seems to have overcome the memory limits of the old version. |
| 14:59 | <Chutt> | amazing |
| 14:59 | <Kuwanger> | The bad news is myth still hangs when I try to change channels. |
| 15:00 | <mdz_> | Kuwanger: usually that indicates a sound card problem |
| 15:00 | <mdz_> | the fact that UPS came at all is astonishing |
| 15:00 | <Kuwanger> | I get "Delaying to next trigger" messages. |
| 15:00 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: What would make my sound card stop working one day? |
| 15:00 | <Chutt> | it's relatively easy to debug hangs |
| 15:01 | <Chutt> | just compile for debugging and run in gdb, make it hang, hit ctl-c |
| 15:01 | <mdz_> | a few "Delaying to next trigger" messages are normal for now, and relatively harmless |
| 15:01 | <Kuwanger> | Is there a debug option? |
| 15:01 | <mdz_> | Kuwanger: this is all in the documentation |
| 15:01 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: They seem directly related to me pressing keys. |
| 15:01 | <Chutt> | in settings.pro |
| 15:01 | <mdz_> | google for "mythtv debug" and it is the third match |
| 15:02 | <Kuwanger> | Yea, a grep found the settings.pro thing. |
| 15:04 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: I don't recall seeing in the documentation anything about MythTV working one day then the next spontaneously locking up and it probably being the sound card. |
| 15:05 | <Kuwanger> | Thought Chutt told me to upgrade to 0.9rc_6 of alsa to see if it would help, and it did not, which is why I came back. |
| 15:05 | <poptix> | ../../libs/libmythtv/libmythtv.a(progfind.o)(.text+0x2d3): In function `ProgFinder::ProgFinder[not-in-charge](QWidget*, char const*)': |
| 15:05 | <poptix> | : undefined reference to `gContext' |
| 15:05 | <poptix> | is that in the FAQ? |
| 15:05 | <Chutt> | no, it means you need to do a make distclean and build everything |
| 15:05 | <poptix> | hrm |
| 15:05 | <Chutt> | probably would help to remove your installed libmyth as well |
| 15:07 | <poptix> | already did that |
| 15:07 | <poptix> | rpm -e mythtv |
| 15:08 | <Kuwanger> | Uh, does mythtv just completely ignore the --prefix option? |
| 15:08 | <Chutt> | settings.pro, again |
| 15:09 | <Kuwanger> | I'll take that as a yes. |
| 15:09 | <Chutt> | yes |
| 15:10 | <Chutt> | it's really difficult to edit a file to set the prefix |
| 15:10 | <Chutt> | mythtv doesn't even have a --prefix option |
| 15:10 | <Chutt> | so, whatever |
| 15:10 | <Kuwanger> | configure does |
| 15:11 | <Chutt> | didn't manage to read the first line of configure's output, did you? |
| 15:11 | <Kuwanger> | Nope, apparently not. |
| 15:11 | <poptix> | heh |
| 15:11 | <poptix> | Kuwanger: configure is for libavcodec |
| 15:12 | <Kuwanger> | settings.pro is for everything else? |
| 15:12 | <mdz_> | Kuwanger: that is in the documentation as a matter of fact |
| 15:12 | <Kuwanger> | Where? |
| 15:15 | -!- | Justin_ [~justin@H233-225.STATE.RESNET.ALBANY.EDU] has joined #MythTV |
| 15:15 | <Justin_> | 00:0c.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video Capture (rev 11) :):) |
| 15:16 | <Kuwanger> | I see two mentions of settings.pro, and their whole relationship is mentioned that of changing -march=pentiumpro to -march=i586 for K6 line processors |
| 15:17 | <Kuwanger> | There doesn't really seem to much information on where to configure things, though you're right in I didn't read all of what configure said. On the other hand, it doesn't tell me what to alter either. |
| 15:27 | <poptix> | Chutt: it's still giving the same compile error |
| 15:27 | <poptix> | hmm.. |
| 15:28 | <rkulagow> | chutt: the sound/volume patch is done, i think. what's the best diff command to use to send it to you? i had to touch tv_play.{cpp,h} and global settings. |
| 15:28 | <poptix> | rkulagow: cvs -z3 diff -u |
| 15:28 | <Chutt> | poptix, everything's in cvs |
| 15:29 | <Chutt> | what file does it die on? |
| 15:29 | <poptix> | g++ -o mythprogfind main.o -L/usr/lib/qt-3.1/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L../../libs/libmyth -L../../libs/libmythtv -L../../libs/libavcodec -L../../libs/libvbitext -lmythtv -lavcodec -lvbitext -lmyth-0.8 -lXv -lXinerama -lmp3lame -lqt-mt -lXext -lX11 -lm -lpthread |
| 15:29 | <poptix> | ../../libs/libmythtv/libmythtv.a(progfind.o)(.text+0x2d3): In function `ProgFinder::ProgFinder[not-in-charge](QWidget*, char const*)': |
| 15:29 | <mdz_> | Kuwanger: in the FAQ |
| 15:29 | <poptix> | : undefined reference to `gContext' |
| 15:30 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: Again, where? |
| 15:30 | <mdz_> | Kuwanger: click on the link that says "FAQ" on the mythtv home page. did you even try? |
| 15:30 | <mdz_> | poptix: are you sure you did a "make distclean" and you have no other libmyth-0.8 that it could be finding? |
| 15:31 | <poptix> | mdz_: yes. |
| 15:31 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: Yea, I did. |
| 15:31 | <Chutt> | gContext is defined in mythprogfind/main.cpp |
| 15:32 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: The program guide lists all my channels. I have the latest alsa. MythTV doesn't hang/crash the whole machine, it just doesn't change the channel. |
| 15:32 | <mdz_> | ) I can't change the channel when watching TV? |
| 15:32 | <mdz_> | - Something's wrong with your program database. Did filldata run with |
| 15:32 | <mdz_> | no major errors? |
| 15:32 | <mdz_> | that is cut and pasted from the FAQ |
| 15:32 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: And that doesn't appear to be the problem. |
| 15:33 | <Kuwanger> | Unless, of course, the program guide can show all the program information fine while mythtv itself cannot from the same database. |
| 15:33 | <Kuwanger> | At which point, I'm at ends on what I could do to resolve the problem. |
| 15:34 | <mdz_> | changing the channel requires different data from the database than displaying the program guide |
| 15:34 | <mdz_> | so yes, it is entirely possible that you have a problem with your database with those symptoms |
| 15:34 | <Kuwanger> | Such as..parts which filldata fills up but aren't visible from the program guide? |
| 15:34 | <mdz_> | especially if your database schema is not up to date (assuming you are running CVS) |
| 15:34 | <poptix> | hrm |
| 15:34 | <poptix> | cvs update again seems to have fixed it |
| 15:35 | <poptix> | perhaps i updated at the wrong time |
| 15:35 | <mdz_> | maybe your last update went through before chutt's commit was done |
| 15:35 | <Chutt> | poptix, you might've caught it in the middle of an update |
| 15:35 | <mdz_> | CVS sucks that way |
| 15:35 | <Chutt> | it was a big commit =) |
| 15:35 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: Does not being able to change channels include the inability to exit mythtv's livetv properly? |
| 15:35 | <rkulagow> | chutt: mailed you the diff. |
| 15:35 | <Chutt> | thanks |
| 15:36 | <Chutt> | kuwanger, if you can't exit it either, that _really_ says it's a sound problem |
| 15:36 | <Kuwanger> | So, what am I supposed to do? :) |
| 15:40 | <Kuwanger> | Right, well, I have to go. Maybe I'll magically figure out why it's not working then. |
| 15:40 | <Kuwanger> | Until then. |
| 15:40 | <-- Kuwanger | (nobody@d-72-193.dhcp-149-159.indiana.edu) has left #mythtv ("Client Exiting") |
| 15:50 | <poptix> | root 26052 30.0 6.9 74264 35752 ttyp6 S 14:48 0:34 mythbackend |
| 15:50 | <poptix> | root 26060 12.8 5.2 50012 27192 ttyp0 S 14:48 0:14 mythfrontend |
| 15:50 | <poptix> | nice |
| 15:51 | <mdz_> | wah wah why won't you debug my problem for me I get free support with my mythtv purchase right? |
| 15:52 | <poptix> | mdz_: heh |
| 15:52 | <poptix> | i assume that was directed at Kuwanger |
| 15:53 | <Universe> | I think it was directed at alot of people |
| 15:53 | <Chutt> | mailman has an 'invite to subscribe' feature |
| 15:53 | <Chutt> | i think i'll use that for the entire list membership |
| 15:53 | <Chutt> | for mythtv-users |
| 15:54 | <poptix> | i don't think you'll manage to get the questions off -dev |
| 15:54 | <Chutt> | no |
| 15:54 | <Chutt> | but hopefully stuff like the xbox discussion will go off of it |
| 15:54 | <poptix> | everyones question is of the utmost importance and deserves the attention of -dev |
| 15:54 | <mdz_> | poptix: most recently him, but yes, a lot of people |
| 15:55 | * Universe | has seen many demanding support for this app.. |
| 15:55 | <mdz_> | things seem to work best when you start out with one list, and then split off a development list that people need to specifically subscribe to |
| 15:56 | <mdz_> | it'll be tough to get anyone to unsubscribe from -dev that shouldn't be there |
| 15:56 | <Chutt> | mdz, yeah, but renaming a list in mailman is a _bitch_ |
| 15:56 | <Chutt> | and i don't want to make snowman figure that out |
| 15:56 | <Chutt> | he's busy enough =) |
| 15:58 | <poptix> | Chutt: you can always export the dev subscribers then import them to a new list |
| 15:58 | <poptix> | change -dev to -devel or something =p |
| 15:58 | * poptix | goes poof |
| 16:02 | -!- | Tuscany [] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)"] |
| 16:55 | -!- | TheAsp [asp@CDR13-117.accesscable.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 16:56 | <TheAsp> | Does the preview image just create 1 image or a few? |
| 16:56 | <TheAsp> | err |
| 16:56 | <TheAsp> | preview image option |
| 17:06 | <mdz_> | just one |
| 17:14 | <nevertheless> | hmm, I'm somehow confused... I just reinstalled mythtv into a clean directory (deleting the old) and now I cannot see the labels anymore (like in setups or the epg) |
| 17:15 | -!- | Tuscany [~username@66.54.186.1] has joined #mythtv |
| 17:15 | <nevertheless> | did I miss anything? |
| 17:15 | <_shad> | Hehe |
| 17:15 | <_shad> | mdz |
| 17:15 | <TheAsp> | mdz: hmm... where does it generate them? |
| 17:16 | <TheAsp> | in the frontend? |
| 17:16 | <_shad> | There is no way for me to hook up a vcr to composite, and actually have real time channel changing, rewinding and ff'ing, is there? |
| 17:17 | <mdz_> | _shad: sure there is |
| 17:17 | <_shad> | in mythtv? :) |
| 17:17 | <mdz_> | _shad: it's the same situation as with a cable converter |
| 17:18 | <mdz_> | yes, in mythtv |
| 17:18 | <_shad> | hehe. how? |
| 17:18 | <mdz_> | TheAsp: not sure, I haven't looked at it since the split |
| 17:18 | <_shad> | I feel dumb. |
| 17:18 | <mdz_> | _shad: you need an IR transmitter and a little script to change the channel using lirc |
| 17:19 | <_shad> | ok, I know that |
| 17:19 | <_shad> | but |
| 17:19 | <_shad> | I was watching a dvd |
| 17:19 | <_shad> | and stuff |
| 17:19 | <_shad> | heh |
| 17:20 | <_shad> | even with an ir transmitter, if I was 10 seconds back in the buffer, I wouldn't see it start fast forwarding for 10 seconds, right? |
| 17:21 | <mdz_> | you are talking about fast forwarding and rewinding on a VCR |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | or dvd |
| 17:21 | <mdz_> | I was talking about fast forwarding and rewinding in mythtv |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | oh |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | ya |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | hehe |
| 17:21 | <mdz_> | why would you watch a hardware DVD player through mythtv? |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | I don't have a dvd-rom |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | :) |
| 17:21 | <_shad> | but it's the same for vcr |
| 17:22 | <mdz_> | there are no channels, and a DVD player already does most of what mythtv does for recordings |
| 17:22 | <_shad> | I was watching a recording |
| 17:22 | <mdz_> | you don't have a dvd-rom, but you have a hardware dvd player and a tv |
| 17:22 | <_shad> | <I was recording with mythtv and a vcr at same time> |
| 17:22 | <_shad> | I don't have a tv |
| 17:22 | <_shad> | I have a monitor :) |
| 17:22 | <mdz_> | then why did you buy a dvd player instead of a dvd-rom? |
| 17:22 | <_shad> | it was a birthday present |
| 17:23 | <_shad> | :) |
| 17:24 | <_shad> | but, in the case of the vcr, there is no way to actually have real time control over it, right? |
| 17:24 | <TheAsp> | where the hell is gContext from? |
| 17:24 | <TheAsp> | :) |
| 17:25 | <mdz_> | _shad: what's wrong with using the dvd player's remote control to have real time control? |
| 17:26 | <_shad> | because if I'm 10 seconds back in the buffer, and I start a fast forward, I won't see it starting a fast forward for 10 seconds |
| 17:26 | <mdz_> | why would you be 10 seconds back in the buffer? |
| 17:27 | <mdz_> | you should either use mythtv's ff/rew, or the player's, not both |
| 17:27 | <_shad> | ya |
| 17:27 | <_shad> | but if it just gets behind |
| 17:27 | <mdz_> | it doesn't :-) |
| 17:27 | <_shad> | my mythtv is constantly 2-3 seconds behind real tv |
| 17:27 | <mdz_> | that's normal |
| 17:27 | <TheAsp> | thats what it's supposed to do |
| 17:27 | <mdz_> | you might be happier just using xawtv or tvtime or such |
| 17:27 | <_shad> | yes, but even 3 seconds is a long time :) |
| 17:28 | <mdz_> | if all you want is to display a composite input on a computer monitor |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | mdz: ya, I do that for now, just wondering if there was a way in mythtv |
| 17:28 | <mdz_> | ahh, this is the old "can i turn off the PVR bits" question, disguised |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | no |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | gah |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | I know you can't turn it off |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | I like the pvr shit :P |
| 17:28 | <mdz_> | the pvr features require a delay |
| 17:28 | <_shad> | I just need to make a link on the main menu for "dvd and vcr' that starts tvtime or something |
| 17:29 | <_shad> | yea |
| 17:29 | <_shad> | I know that |
| 17:29 | <mdz_> | oh god that xbox thread needs to die |
| 17:29 | <_shad> | heh |
| 17:29 | * _shad | goes to read |
| 17:29 | <nevertheless> | no ideas about the disapearing labels ? |
| 17:29 | <Justin_> | time to install tv card=2 minutes, time to fix cable jack=3 hours :) |
| 17:30 | -!- | Kuwanger [nobody@d-72-193.dhcp-149-159.indiana.edu] has joined #mythtv |
| 17:30 | <_shad> | mdz: There will obviously never be another input that will not be pvr based, right? |
| 17:30 | <Kuwanger> | Hello again. |
| 17:31 | <mdz_> | _shad: I doubt it, but if someone contributes it and it integrates nicely, I suppose it's possible. it'd be up to Chutt |
| 17:32 | <_shad> | mdz: ya. I just can't think of a way for it to integrate, it'd have to be something like composite(real-time) or something |
| 17:32 | <Kuwanger> | mdz_: So do you have any idea where the actual corruption is likely to be that would be causing the channel changing to not function in mythtv? |
| 17:32 | <_shad> | but simply another icon beside watch tv would work too I guess |
| 17:51 | <TheAsp> | do truncated files act differently when you are fastforwarding/rewinding? |
| 17:51 | <Chutt> | truncated how? |
| 17:52 | <TheAsp> | like the server killed at the wrong time |
| 17:52 | <Chutt> | yeah, they won't have a seek table |
| 17:52 | <Chutt> | so seeking will take quite a bit longer |
| 17:53 | <TheAsp> | *nod*, same with livetv? |
| 17:53 | <moegreen> | that sure was easy to delete all the mailing list emails with xbox at the beginning of them |
| 17:53 | <Chutt> | livetv should be faster |
| 17:53 | <Chutt> | since it does some stuff to improve the process |
| 17:53 | <TheAsp> | ah |
| 17:53 | <Chutt> | hrmph |
| 17:54 | <TheAsp> | where are the show icons being generated? |
| 17:54 | <Chutt> | backend |
| 17:54 | <TheAsp> | ah |
| 17:54 | <Chutt> | eventually, whichever backend has the file will generate it |
| 17:54 | <TheAsp> | which function? |
| 17:55 | <Chutt> | which function? |
| 17:55 | <TheAsp> | does the generating |
| 17:55 | <Chutt> | nuppelvideoplayer::getscreengrab() or something like that |
| 17:57 | <Kuwanger> | If I downgrade from 0.8 to 0.7, should I clear my database and start over? |
| 17:57 | <Chutt> | you need to drop all the tables |
| 17:59 | <TheAsp> | haha, findcomericals :P |
| 17:59 | <TheAsp> | nice idea |
| 18:00 | <Kuwanger> | Still totally lost on why DBZ isn't being recorded. |
| 18:01 | <TheAsp> | are they repeats? |
| 18:03 | <Chutt> | can people let me know if they got invites to subscribe to mythtv-users? |
| 18:04 | <TheAsp> | sure |
| 18:04 | <Chutt> | i'm not sure if the entire list got processed |
| 18:04 | <TheAsp> | how long should it take? |
| 18:04 | <Chutt> | i dunno |
| 18:05 | <TheAsp> | wonder if my filter would have picked it up or not |
| 18:05 | <TheAsp> | nope, not in there |
| 18:06 | <TheAsp> | hmm |
| 18:08 | <TheAsp> | bbl |
| 18:08 | <Chutt> | i think mailman died |
| 18:08 | <Chutt> | well, not died, but =) |
| 18:08 | <TheAsp> | suffered a stroke? |
| 18:09 | <vektor> | a mild concussion? |
| 18:11 | <Justin_> | rabid dog? |
| 18:11 | <nevertheless> | Chutt: got it |
| 18:11 | <Justin_> | is it just me, or is everyone here using cvs? |
| 18:12 | <Chutt> | nevertheless, what's your email address? |
| 18:12 | <nevertheless> | me@christianhoenig.de |
| 18:12 | <Chutt> | ok, so it got to the m's |
| 18:12 | <Chutt> | if it was doing it alphabetically |
| 18:13 | <vektor> | I think it's pretty insensitive of them to call it GNU mailman |
| 18:14 | <vektor> | I mean, mailcarrier is a much more inclusive. Or lettercarrier or postalemployee or something... ;) |
| 18:16 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 18:16 | <Chutt> | oh, seems that snowman's mail box is overloaded =) |
| 18:19 | <Justin_> | yeha, i've gotten 238 emails in a day |
| 18:38 | <rkulagow> | hasn't made it to the "r"'s yet. |
| 18:39 | -!- | giuppi [~giuppi@213-140-14-136.fastres.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 18:40 | <giuppi> | hi, is the ati tv wonder a good choice in terms of quality ? |
| 18:48 | <_shad> | Chutt got the message |
| 18:48 | <_shad> | add a : in there |
| 18:48 | <_shad> | heh |
| 18:49 | <_shad> | changes the meaning totally. haha |
| 18:49 | <nevertheless> | :-) |
| 18:50 | <_shad> | kinda hard to type a : with a wire wrap tool and wire in one hand |
| 18:52 | <rkulagow> | just got the invite. |
| 18:53 | <rkulagow> | i'm tingly with anticipation on the content... |
| 18:56 | <moegreen> | i got two - i feel special today. |
| 18:57 | <_shad> | moegreen: are you sure the second isn't a dis-invitation :) |
| 18:57 | <nevertheless> | and I finally got the confirmation :-) |
| 18:58 | <TheAsp> | message received |
| 18:58 | <TheAsp> | twice... |
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| 19:04 | <Kuwanger> | Justin_: Not me. |
| 19:05 | <Kuwanger> | TheAsp: Sorry for not answering sooner. Far as I know, they're not repeats. At least, not all of them. |
| 19:11 | <Kuwanger> | Great.. |
| 19:13 | -!- | rkulagow [~rkulagow@12-250-190-224.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 19:15 | <Kuwanger> | Well, this makes a lot of sense.. |
| 19:15 | <Kuwanger> | I can get so far as to create the database but I can't seem to populate it with entries. |
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| 19:34 | <Justin_> | is 30% cpu a lot for recording? heh |
| 19:34 | <nevertheless> | depends on res. |
| 19:35 | * Justin_ | looks |
| 19:35 | <Justin_> | 480x480 |
| 19:36 | <nevertheless> | I'm running 640x480 utilizing 50% on my xp 2000+ |
| 19:36 | <Justin_> | i have a 1600+... |
| 19:37 | <_shad> | I have a 486 |
| 19:37 | <Justin_> | divx comes out big when it cant do two pass encoding i guess |
| 19:37 | <_shad> | :) |
| 19:40 | <poptix> | Justin_: |
| 19:40 | <poptix> | root 26292 28.4 7.0 74224 36544 ttyp6 S 18:39 0:03 mythbackend |
| 19:40 | <poptix> | root 26304 14.3 5.0 50168 26220 ttyp0 S 18:39 0:02 mythfrontend |
| 19:40 | <poptix> | that's 720x480, watching LiveTV with rtjpeg at '140' quality |
| 19:40 | <poptix> | athlon xp 2000+ |
| 19:45 | <Justin_> | your using cvs eh? |
| 19:48 | <poptix> | yeah |
| 19:48 | <poptix> | current as of 3 hours ago |
| 19:52 | <Justin_> | i'm using the 0.70 debs |
| 19:53 | <poptix> | ick. |
| 19:55 | <Chutt> | bah, there's nothing wrong with 0.7 |
| 19:55 | <Chutt> | it's just two months old |
| 19:55 | <Chutt> | or is it three, now? |
| 19:57 | <nevertheless> | I have a seperate 0.7 installatione, to which I can switch, if I destroy stuff while working on it,... and now I somehow prefer the 0.7, because there i CAN see all the lables :-( |
| 19:59 | <poptix> | Chutt: still though, you have to admit there have been signifigant improvements in the CVS =P |
| 20:00 | * Kuwanger | is at a loss. :/ |
| 20:01 | <Kuwanger> | What in the world am I supposed to do to make this freaking table.. |
| 20:03 | <Kuwanger> | Guess I had to do it as root. |
| 20:03 | <poptix> | Kuwanger: hammer, nails, and wood. |
| 20:04 | <Kuwanger> | Though why, I have no idea.. |
| 20:05 | <poptix> | probably because you don't know how to use mysql |
| 20:06 | <Kuwanger> | No, I don't. |
| 20:06 | <Kuwanger> | It's supposedly acl, though that doesn't tell me much. |
| 20:07 | -!- | nevertheless [] has quit [Remote closed the connection] |
| 20:09 | <Justin_> | Chutt: well you have to keep mythfrontend running for it to record.... |
| 20:09 | <Kuwanger> | Justin_: No biggy. Just have to have a stable X. :) |
| 20:09 | <Justin_> | :) |
| 20:10 | <Justin_> | and that the graphical setup doesn't work:) |
| 20:16 | <poptix> | the graphical setup does work |
| 20:17 | <poptix> | and you don't need to have mythfrontend running to automatically record television shows |
| 20:17 | <poptix> | you do need mythbackend running |
| 20:18 | <Kuwanger> | poptix: Not following the conversation? |
| 20:20 | <Justin_> | 0.70 doesn't have mythbackend |
| 20:21 | <Justin_> | 0.70 doesn't have graphical setup:) |
| 20:21 | <Justin_> | though what it does have works:) |
| 20:22 | * Kuwanger | hopes that mythfrontend starts magically working this time. |
| 20:22 | <Kuwanger> | Then I just have to pray it doesn't magically break again. :) |
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| 21:17 | <Justin_> | poptix: how big do the files get using rtjpeg? |
| 21:18 | <Kuwanger> | Well, rebuilt my database. |
| 21:18 | <Kuwanger> | No effect. |
| 21:18 | <Kuwanger> | Now, why was it that mythtv has sound card problems? |
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| 22:18 | <Justin_> | what exactly does "mpeg4" mean to mythtv? |
| 22:20 | <mdz> | MPEG-4 is a video encoding algorithm |
| 22:21 | <Chutt> | mdz, 1/3 of the people subscribed have subscribed to the users list |
| 22:22 | <mdz> | impressive |
| 22:22 | <Chutt> | so far, at least |
| 22:23 | <mdz> | playback takes almost 20% of my CPU when it's underclocked like this |
| 22:23 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 22:23 | <Justin_> | i know what mpeg4 is |
| 22:23 | <Chutt> | you underclocked by lowering the fsb? |
| 22:23 | <Chutt> | or... |
| 22:23 | <Justin_> | i wanna know what mythtv thinks mpeg4 is |
| 22:24 | <mdz> | both |
| 22:24 | <mdz> | it's 100mhz for the cpu and bus now |
| 22:24 | <Chutt> | so the ram's running 1/4 slower? |
| 22:24 | <mdz> | yep |
| 22:24 | <Chutt> | that's probably the biggest hit |
| 22:24 | <Justin_> | theres divx4, divx5, xvid, xvidcs, ffmpeg.... |
| 22:24 | <mdz> | probably as big as the CPU running 30% slower |
| 22:25 | <Chutt> | justin, the code is sitting right there, take a look at it |
| 22:25 | * Justin_ | looks |
| 22:31 | <TheAsp> | there is also a suspicious icon is on the site... |
| 22:35 | <_shad> | and a typo on the newest news :) |
| 22:45 | <mdz> | Chutt: so I got lm-sensors up on this thing, and on an idle system it's showing alarms for 3 of the voltage measurements |
| 22:45 | <Justin_> | where is the doc that tells you how to use edit mode? |
| 22:46 | <Justin_> | ahh its in keys.txt :-D |
| 22:46 | <TheAsp> | so does mine |
| 22:46 | <TheAsp> | i ignore them |
| 22:46 | <_shad> | mdz: in the 5 volt lines? |
| 22:46 | <TheAsp> | they are fine in the bios |
| 22:46 | <_shad> | is it like 4.8x volts? |
| 22:47 | <mdz> | +3.3V: +6.48 V (min = +2.96 V, max = +3.60 V) ALARM |
| 22:47 | <mdz> | -12V: -1.74 V (min = -15.86 V, max = -13.40 V) ALARM |
| 22:47 | <mdz> | -5V: -9.14 V (min = -10.13 V, max = -9.44 V) ALARM |
| 22:47 | <_shad> | umm |
| 22:47 | <_shad> | hehe |
| 22:47 | <mdz> | never mind, those values are crap |
| 22:47 | <_shad> | see |
| 22:48 | <_shad> | I like those numbers |
| 22:48 | <mdz> | yep, especially the 12V |
| 22:48 | <_shad> | ya |
| 22:48 | <_shad> | good power savings |
| 22:48 | <_shad> | :) |
| 22:49 | <mdz> | the others look reasonable though, it's weird |
| 22:49 | <_shad> | ya |
| 22:49 | <_shad> | maybe your underclocking is fuckin with it |
| 22:50 | <mdz> | why do these drivers suck? |
| 22:50 | <_shad> | is it stable underclocked? |
| 22:50 | * rcaskey | is away: I'm busy |
| 22:51 | * rcaskey | is back (gone 00:00:01) |
| 22:52 | <mdz> | yep |
| 22:52 | <_shad> | you did try increasing cpu voltage first? |
| 22:52 | <mdz> | passes memtest86, and has been stable all day |
| 22:52 | <mdz> | no, I don't know how to do that |
| 22:52 | <mdz> | it can't be changed in the bios |
| 22:52 | <_shad> | really? |
| 22:53 | <_shad> | should be where you change the fsb |
| 22:53 | <mdz> | it is displayed there, but I can't change it |
| 22:54 | <_shad> | weird |
| 22:54 | <_shad> | intel or amd? |
| 22:54 | <mdz> | amd |
| 22:54 | <_shad> | asus mobo? |
| 22:54 | <mdz> | it's a k7s5a |
| 22:55 | <mdz> | ecs |
| 22:55 | <_shad> | hrm. don't know anything about ecs |
| 22:55 | <mdz> | cheap crap |
| 22:55 | <_shad> | heh |
| 22:56 | <_shad> | we only sell asus |
| 22:57 | <_shad> | yay. my 8088 is now interrupt driven! |
| 22:57 | <_shad> | stupid POS. |
| 22:57 | <_shad> | haha |
| 22:58 | <mdz> | I don't think it's the CPU overheating; according to lm-sensors even when it's pegged it's only 61C |
| 22:59 | <_shad> | hmm |
| 22:59 | <_shad> | but it might not be getting enough voltage |
| 22:59 | <_shad> | you have the manual? |
| 23:00 | <mdz> | dunno how to measure that since lm-sensors is fucked |
| 23:00 | <mdz> | yes |
| 23:00 | <_shad> | see where to increase the cpu voltage |
| 23:00 | <mdz> | nope |
| 23:00 | <mdz> | it only displays it |
| 23:01 | <mdz> | the only things that can be changed on that page are the CPU clock and DRAM clock |
| 23:02 | <_shad> | is there a jumper setting? |
| 23:02 | <mdz> | it doesn't seem like that could be the problem; it used to be stable |
| 23:03 | <mdz> | it only has like 2 jumpers, cmos clear and keyboard power on |
| 23:03 | <_shad> | hmm |
| 23:03 | <_shad> | weird |
| 23:03 | <_shad> | but increasing the clock makes it unstable |
| 23:03 | <_shad> | you've run memtest86 at full clock speed I presume? |
| 23:03 | <mdz> | yep, that was where I first saw the failures |
| 23:03 | <_shad> | hmm |
| 23:03 | <mdz> | at 133/133 |
| 23:04 | <mdz> | now it's at 100/100 |
| 23:04 | <_shad> | ok |
| 23:04 | <_shad> | can you set it to 133/100 or 100/133? |
| 23:04 | <mdz> | yeah, that's what I'm about to try |
| 23:04 | <_shad> | I'm thinking cpu |
| 23:05 | <mdz> | core voltage is 1.744V |
| 23:05 | <mdz> | now trying 100/133 |
| 23:05 | <_shad> | k |
| 23:05 | <_shad> | cpuburn? :) |
| 23:06 | <mdz> | memtest86 |
| 23:06 | <_shad> | it would freeze on a memtest too? |
| 23:06 | <mdz> | nah, just show errors |
| 23:07 | <_shad> | then it looks like bad ram |
| 23:07 | <_shad> | heh |
| 23:07 | <_shad> | poor guy |
| 23:07 | <_shad> | but you got new ram, right? |
| 23:08 | <mdz> | yep |
| 23:08 | <mdz> | already swapped it out, didn't help |
| 23:09 | <_shad> | tried diff slots too? |
| 23:13 | <mdz> | no, didn't try that |
| 23:13 | <_shad> | I've seen bad slots before |
| 23:13 | <_shad> | I've seen almost everything in the past 2 years |
| 23:17 | <mdz> | memtest86 seems happy at 100/133 |
| 23:18 | <_shad> | mmm |
| 23:18 | <_shad> | cpu? |
| 23:18 | <mdz> | I don't have a spare CPU to try |
| 23:20 | <_shad> | you only have a choice between 100 and 133? |
| 23:20 | <_shad> | no 127 stuff? |
| 23:21 | <mdz> | correct |
| 23:21 | <mdz> | this is not a fancy board or bios, very basic |
| 23:21 | <_shad> | hmm |
| 23:22 | <_shad> | not good :( |
| 23:23 | <_shad> | just run it at 100/133 :) |
| 23:24 | <mdz> | that is not satisfactory |
| 23:24 | <_shad> | hehe |
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| 23:36 | <aw> | fwiw, remoteencoder.h needs a #include <pthread.h> (current cvs) |
| 23:37 | <Chutt> | done, thanks |
| 23:41 | <rkulagow> | chutt: was the sound patch any better this time, or are there still problems with it? |
| 23:41 | <Chutt> | i dunno |
| 23:42 | <Chutt> | i'm not sure if i like setting it to 70, regardless |
| 23:43 | <rkulagow> | do you mean the master mixer volume? i set it to 70 just to get it to something that's non-zero. do you have a different idea on what it should be? |
| 23:43 | <Chutt> | i don't like setting it to anything, i kinda think that that should be up to the user |
| 23:44 | <rkulagow> | do you mean setting the master mixer volume with an external mixer? i could leave that alone, and then just alter the PCM volume. |
| 23:47 | -!- | Universe [~Yeah@6532170hfc176.tampabay.rr.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 23:47 | <Chutt> | rkulagow, i dunno, lemme think about it more |
| 23:47 | <Chutt> | i've got your patch, and some guy from .nl sent me something i didn't like either =) |
| 23:49 | <rkulagow> | ok |
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| 23:59 | <mirk_dt> | Chutt: It looks like there may be a problem with the mailing list archives as linked from the mythtv.org web page. |
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