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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-03-02

00:00<Timon>Thanks! They are kind of daunting at first.
00:00<bigguy>I need to learn C++
00:00<bigguy>or relearn rather
00:00<bigguy>I did alot of non gui stuff at school
00:00<Timon>I found a different book by the same author (Jesse Liberty) that does a WAY better job of explaining everything.
00:00<bigguy>just been a few years
00:01<bigguy>what's the name?
00:01<Timon>Yeah. When I stopped programming for a few years it took a bit to jump back on that horse. You have to re-adjust your thinking again.
00:01<Timon>The guy who wrote the book is named Jesse Liberty.
00:02<Timon>The book I DIDN'T like by him was CPP from Scratch. His Learn CPP in 21 days book is WAY better.
00:02<Timon>Even though I typically hate the learn x in 21 days series of books
00:02<bigguy>I had learned some perl and made a nice gtk-perl frontend for mpg123 but I forogot what I learned ;)
00:03<Timon>I've forgotten about 98% of what I've learned about Assembler
00:03<bigguy>course it's easy to forget what you don't use
00:06<bigguy>I've got that book here
00:06<bigguy>I just went to make sure
00:06<bigguy>I've got there C book also
00:06<bigguy>and several C/C++ books my old prof gave me
00:07<bigguy>and an ORA book here somewhere
00:07<Timon>I typically HATE sams books. I bought there linux unleased book about 7-8 years ago. The worst book. Full of inacurisies, and misleading stuff.
00:08<bigguy>yeah but that was probably the first Edition :P
00:08<Timon>I think it was the second. I have it somewhere. I didn't even think it was worthy enough to unpack when we moved :-)
00:09<bigguy>I've got several Linux books in boxes
00:10<bigguy>course they were of no use to me anyway
00:10<Timon>I've honestly found google to be of more help then most books :-)
00:10<bigguy>the people that gave them to me didn't realize I was a little more advanced already ;)
00:11<bigguy>Timon: I've used linux for a long time
00:11<bigguy>I started trying to play with it in Sept/Oct 92
00:12<bigguy>got it installed in october but I still spent more time messing about in dos then
00:12<Timon>I wasn't far behind you.
00:12<Timon>I want to say '94
00:12<Timon>is when I picked it up.
00:12<bigguy>yeah it was pretty far along by then
00:12<bigguy>alot easier to install for sure
00:13<Timon>I started with slackware.
00:13<bigguy>well we can't all be perfect ;)
00:13<Timon>I always liked that distro. Thats probably why I prefer bsd over linux
00:14<bigguy>I use openbsd some aswell
00:14<bigguy>not a fan of Free but net's ok
00:14<Timon>I don't like the sys 5 way of placing files.
00:14<Timon>I love freebsd. Haven't used net or open though.
00:15<Timon>why don't you like free?
00:15<bigguy>lotsa reasons one of them being the eliteism of most of the users
00:15<bigguy>I've never had a problem talking to Theo
00:16<Timon>I will give you that. Some of the freebsd users are kind of elitists
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00:17<bigguy>that's one of the reasons I got away from slackware
00:17<bigguy>I ran it up to about 3.1
00:18<Timon>I haven't run it since 3
00:18<bigguy>ended up maintaining a custom dist for my own use for a while
00:18<bigguy>now I use debian
00:18<Timon>I just didn't care to use it when they made the sudden version jump to keep up with the others.
00:19<Timon>I didn't like the debian installer :-)
00:19<bigguy>heh I haven't used deselect for some time
00:20<bigguy>yeah it's part of the debian install process
00:20<bigguy>you can avoid it tho
00:20<Timon>ahhh. I liked the mandrake installer. Pretty polished.
00:21<bigguy>I'm not a fan of those rpm dists :P
00:21<Timon>haha :-)
00:21<bigguy>I can't stand many cluebies either ;)
00:21<Timon>I personally could care less.
00:21<Timon>hahaha, I'm not a cluebie.
00:22<bigguy>I know you're not
00:22<bigguy>but a good bit are
00:22<Timon>If I were to put linux on my server though (It currently runs freebsd), I would honestly probably use deb
00:22<bigguy>and they don't want to read to find out why they are having problems with "X" app
00:23<Timon>The easiest thing to do is take the freakin error message and paste it into a google search
00:23<Timon>I've solved more problems that way then I can remember.
00:23<bigguy>I use openbsd on my servers most of the time but I didn't have a current iso for open so I installed debian on it for the time being once I got moved back
00:24<Timon>Heck, it took me about 5 mins, but I figured out the other night you have to put a ";" after a class declaration using google and the error message.
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00:28<Timon>The one thing I REALLy like about bsd is its not a haphazard mess like the linux distros
00:28<Timon>One distro puts files here, another there. Makes it a pain in the butt.
00:28<Viddy>thats why you should use debian
00:28<Timon>I think the LSB is going to be a good thing for linux and something they should have done a LONG time ago.
00:28<Viddy>debian always puts the files in the same place
00:29<Timon>Yeah, each distro always puts file in the same place. Its the difference between distros that I don't like for file locations
00:30<Timon>Theres only one freebsd distro, and I can count on files always being in the same spot :-)
00:30<Timon>But, Linux has vastly superior hardware support.
00:31<bigguy>well not really true
00:32<Timon>the hardware support bit?
00:32<bigguy>no the only distro bit ;)
00:32<Timon>Really? There is anohter distro other then the one by
00:32<bigguy>in some way they are all redsist of bsd 4.4 lite
00:33<Timon>oh, yeah
00:33<Timon>we should all go back to dos
00:34<Timon>Or better yet. . . xenix
00:34<bigguy>the reason there are multiple linux distro's is the same reason there are multiple *bsd derivatives
00:34<bigguy>I choose to not like freebsd but you love it :P
00:34<bigguy>so heh
00:34<Timon>Yeah, i guess I just didn't look at it that way.
00:35<Timon>thats funny!
00:35<Timon>"Being stoned causes terrorism "
00:36<Timon>"Your telephone may be a practicing physician"
00:50<bigguy>gonna go work on something for a bit.
00:56<the_anti_poptix>i found out what was causing my stupid stuttering problems
00:56<the_anti_poptix>arpwatch was running, and listening on 'lo' for some reason
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01:59<xian>I'm building a new box, and I was curious which would make a better mythtv box: 1.4ghz thunderbird w/ 1.5gb of ram, or a 1.8ghz Athlonxp with 512mb ram
02:03<bigguy>hmm well both would work
02:03<bigguy>but you'd probably be able to do more with the 1.8
02:12* xianis away. Automatically set away [SZon]
02:31<xian>so, you think that CPU power is more important than RAM? Maybe I could use 1gb of that pc133 ram as a ramdisk :)
02:32<xian>the 1.4ghz setup is what I already have. It has a G400 and sb live inside of it. the other setup will be nforce-2 based
02:33* xianis sleepy
02:33<xian>gnite all
03:01<Viddy>i'd go for the 1.8
03:01<Viddy>night xian
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09:04<rkulagow_>moegreen, are you here?
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09:29<Chutt>there, i think i have all the email responded to that i needed to
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12:16<thor>Chutt, you there
12:17<Chutt>but i'm not going to be very shortly
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12:17<Chutt>have to clean the bathroom
12:17<thor>Mythmusic is coming, but domestic duties have taken over all time this weekend
12:18<Chutt>no problem
12:18<thor>Single pane may in fact work ... although I'm still not convinced its the right way to do things
12:18<Chutt>well, have to see it all together, ya know?
12:19<thor>yup ... I'll crank on it tonight and get at least something buggy out tomorrow
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12:29<rkulagow_>thor: you here?
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12:34<thor>I'm back, rkulagow
12:38<rkulagow_>thor: were you planning on doing a setup screen? i was thinking of using 99% of the setup screen from mythfrontend and making it mythmusic specific, unless you already had something like that in the works.
12:39<thor>No setup screen ... not that I'm working on
12:39<Chutt>well, mythmusic should hopefully share the audio settings with the frontend
12:40<Chutt>i'd eventually like to have setup be a main top level menu
12:40<Chutt>with entries for 'General' then 'MythTV' 'MythMusic' 'MythWeather', etc
12:40<thor>Couldn/t agree more ... already a bit odd having mythweather setup under TV
12:41<Chutt>i figure that general and tv would be handled by the frontend itself
12:41<Chutt>like the current arrangement
12:41<Chutt>and the others would be something like 'mythmusic --configure'
12:41<Chutt>and that'd just run the setup screen for the module
12:41<thor>Ahhh .. yes ... difference between "Setup" and "Settings"
12:42<Chutt>that way, they're still independent modules, but they can be added to the settings menu
12:42<Chutt>i need to rename 'setup' to 'backendsetup'
12:42<Chutt>or whatnot =)
12:43<thor>You have any idea where this weird focus problem is coming from
12:43<rkulagow_>chutt: moegreen already has a configuration routine native to mythweather in his private tree (i'm helping him debug), so that will get rid of the mythweather setup from within mythTV
12:43<thor>It's very odd
12:43<Chutt>rkulagow, excellent =)
12:43<Chutt>the multi-backend stuff is about half done
12:43<Chutt>aside from debugging things
12:44<rkulagow_>chutt, thor: i was going to check with you guys if you can think of a reason why mythmusic _wouldn't_ use the audio settings already in the database.
12:45<Chutt>i can't think of one
12:45<Chutt>i should eventually make it able to support multiple cd drives
12:45<thor>only thing I can thing of is if people have multiple sound cards (/dev/dsps) and have CD drive wired through different card than default
12:45<Chutt>it doesn't read audio from cd that way
12:46<Chutt>it's always ripping, so that's not really an issue
12:46<thor>oh yeah ... never mid
12:46<thor>never mind
12:46<paperclip>you can't simply play a cd?
12:47<Chutt>of course you can simply play it
12:47<Chutt>but when it plays, it's ripping it on the fly
12:47<paperclip>heh.. ok..
12:47<paperclip>you had me worried..
12:47<Chutt>mainly so it's easy to support multiple soundcards
12:47<Chutt>and playing the cd works with the vis stuff
12:47<Chutt>err, multiple drives, not soundcards
12:48<paperclip>ok.. you convinced me.. i'm lurking again =)
12:49<thor>gotta run ... looking forward to multi-backend ... should drive a lot of HW sales :-) (maybe we should be buying stock in Hauppauge or Pinnacle ?)
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13:00<rkulagow_>only if there's a good CX23881 driver; it may start to get more difficult to find a card where you _know_ there's a Bt8X8 chip on it.
13:01<rkulagow_>(from what i read, gerd wasn't too impressed with the driver)
13:03<Chutt>he's working on one, though
13:04<bigguy>working on a driver?
13:06<Chutt>far as i know
13:08<bigguy>this based off that thing merle mailed to matt?
13:09<Chutt>check the readme in there
13:09<Chutt>he's reimplementing it from scratch, using that as a reference
13:09<bigguy>I don't have a card with that chipset
13:09<Chutt>since he said on the v4l list that it wasn't worth trying to fix that driver
13:10<bigguy>I've got 2 bt8xx cards
13:10<bigguy>ones an stb the other's a wintv go
13:10<bigguy>the stb has btaudio support
13:10<bigguy>the go doesn't of course
13:11<Chutt>thinking of going to the cleveland auto show today =)
13:11<bigguy>I would if I was there.
13:11<bigguy>just to get out
13:12<Chutt>wonderin if nissan'll have a 350z convertible on display
13:13<bigguy>hmm who knows
13:20<Chutt>want car
13:23<Chutt>ah well, probably won't be at the show
13:26<bigguy>when you run debian/rules binary doesn't it normally not compile if you don't have a tool needed for compilation?
13:27<bigguy>well the other packages I've built always told me from the start that "x" package was needed
13:27<bigguy>I keep having to grab new tools for this X build
13:27<bigguy>it'll get part way through and fail cause it needs some tool that I just haven't installed yet
13:28<bigguy>oh hmm
13:28<bigguy>I should have disable the international fonts as well
13:30<bigguy>yet another debian based distro
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13:49<Timon>chutt, you there?
14:00<bigguy>I think he went to an auto show
14:01<Timon>Ahh, ok
14:02<Timon>I'm workin on a patch which required me to indent about 300 lines to keep everything consistent, and was wondering if he wanted me to turn on --ignore-whitespace
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17:44<mdz>bigguy: dpkg-buildpackage checks dependencies. debian/rules binary just tries to build the package, and if build-dependencies are missing, behaviour is undefined
17:44<mdz>bigguy: you might get a package with reduced functionality, or it might not build
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17:53<bigguy>well it errored out anyway
17:54<bigguy>atleast it did building with debian/rules binary
17:54<bigguy>but it's gotten alot farther with me just make World'ing the patched source
18:11<mdz>bigguy: what are you trying to build?
18:12<bigguy>xfree 4.3.0 that Daniel Stone made diff and packages for
18:12<bigguy>but since I had already downloaded xfree 4.3.0 to another machine I was just gonna try it out
18:18<mdz>try dpkg-checkbuilddeps before you run debian/rules binary
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18:19<bigguy>ok I will later I'm building it by itself on another box atm with the debian specific patchs the box has no X and I'm making a log of what gets installed so I can remove it
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19:31<bigguy>that is just too strange
19:31<bigguy>It built fine with make World
19:31<bigguy>but it errored out with debian/rules binary
19:32<bigguy>I even applied all the debian/patches/XXX_patchname patches
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20:08<Chutt>so, i'm testing this latest patch by andy davidoff
20:08<Chutt>each query is _identical_ in speed to what he replaced
20:09<bigguy>but but but he can't be wrong
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20:13<moegreen>Chutt: are you talking about the program finder patch? It looks like he added some columns, but how do they get populated?
20:13<Chutt>he didn't add any columns
20:14<Chutt>he just changed the join type, basically
20:14<Chutt>he did add an index to the program table, is all
20:14<Chutt>looking at those queries
20:14<Chutt>why is it joining on channel for the ones where it's just getting the title?
20:15<moegreen>?? probably doesn't need to
20:16<Chutt>select title from program,channel where program.title like '%1%' and program.title not like 'The %' and program.chanid = channel.chanid and program.starttime > %2 group by program.title order by program.title;
20:16<Chutt>is what's there now
20:16<Chutt>select title from program where title like '%1%' and title not like 'The %' and starttime > %2 group by title order by title;
20:17<Chutt>should be much faster
20:17<mdz>Chutt: is there some substantial change in that patch from andy davidoff?
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20:17<Chutt>mdz, none at all, from what i can tell
20:17<mdz>it looks equivalent except for adding the index
20:17<Chutt>he's replacing one join type with another
20:17<mdz>which I'll admit might speed it up a bit
20:17<mdz>he's replacing an inner join with a left join
20:17<mdz>but the join condition is the smae
20:18<Chutt>wouldn't a left join change the results, depending?
20:18<mdz>oh, I see you already tested it
20:18<mdz>it would if there were rows that didn't match
20:18<bigguy>this tries to compile in buildtree/xc but copies nothing to that dir
20:18<mdz>entries in program for which there was no channel row
20:18<Chutt>which can't exist
20:18<mdz>which should never happen, but yeah, in that respect it's different
20:18<Chutt>adding the index would help, though
20:18<Chutt>but, even the one query where it actually needs to join the tables
20:19<Chutt>his was exactly the same speed as what was there
20:19<Chutt>simplifying that query as i did above
20:19<Chutt>doubled the speed
20:20<moegreen>(0.13)->(0.05 sec) --- for the later select
20:20<Chutt>moegreen, which two?
20:20<mdz>moegreen: what did?
20:20<moegreen>the two you mentioned above (what it is now and your change)
20:20<Chutt>moegreen, yeah, similar results to what i saw
20:20<Chutt>do his change for comparison =)
20:21<mdz>SELECT DISTINCT would make a bit more sense than GROUP BY there
20:22<mdz>mysql may evaluate it the same way, but if I'm reading it right, the intent is just to get a unique list of titles
20:22<Chutt>and is a hundreth of a second faster
20:22<Chutt>(the select distinct vs the group by0
20:22<Chutt>average over several runs
20:23<Chutt>0.05 vs 0.04, of course
20:23<moegreen>mdz: yeah it is getting a unique list. I put that change and chutt's changes into cvs (the tenth of second is going to allow us to get things done faster!) :)
20:23<mdz>that's significant, percentage-wise
20:23<mdz>I'm surprised that mysql doesn't just rearrange it into something equivalent
20:23<Chutt>moegreen, change all 3 others/
20:24<moegreen>yeah, I'll get them
20:24<rkulagow>moegreen: if you get a chance, pop open a window with me?
20:24<mdz>I wonder if a substring comparison would be faster than LIKE
20:24<bigguy>mdz when running dpkg-buildpackage is there a way to keep it from running dpkg-source -b blah ?
20:25<mdz>LEFT(title,1) = '%1' or whatever instead of title like '%1%'
20:25<mdz>bigguy: dpkg-buildpackage -b
20:25<mdz>(-b for binary only)
20:25<Chutt>mdz, about the same speed
20:26<mdz>oh well
20:26<mdz>0.04 seconds is pretty respectable
20:26<mdz>is that with or without the additional index?
20:27<mdz>doesn't seem necessary then
20:27<Chutt>the index might help on the query that's actually getting the program info
20:27<Chutt>instead of just the titles
20:27<mdz>this stuff will fit in memory anyway
20:27<mdz>indexes really help when you can avoid loading lots of data from disk
20:27<Chutt>as that _is_ joining against the channel table
20:28<mdz>you changed the other one to not use the channel table at all, right?
20:29<moegreen>derrr, I guess I should update my cvs before I change this :)
20:29<Chutt>since there wasn't any need for it, except to ensure that each program was on a channel
20:29<mdz>actually that might come in handy now that I think about it
20:29<Chutt>i really wasn't testing that change just because it was from andy davidoff
20:29<mdz>no, I guess not
20:29<Chutt>i was just curious to see how much of a speedup there was
20:30<mdz>yeah, I had noticed it was a little sluggish loading the titles
20:30<mdz>I've only used it like twice though
20:30<Chutt>mdz, maybe when it's possible to disable channels somehow
20:30<mdz>all video sources should be available at all frontends, right?
20:30<Chutt>but then, it's better to just not have data
20:30<mdz>so if the program is in the db, it should show up
20:30<Chutt>actually, that's something that needs work, kinda
20:30<Chutt>the epg doesn't make any distinction of where a channel is available from
20:31<mdz>moegreen: did you do the initial progfind?
20:31<moegreen>mdz: yeah
20:31<Chutt>it's all his code
20:31<mdz>moegreen: have you thought about a keyword search?
20:31<mdz>like, sift out all keywords that exist in the program info and let the user browse those to use as a search term
20:31<Chutt>i wish the zap2it data was more complete
20:32<mdz>yeah, their descriptions are not very good
20:32<Chutt>like, their individual program views have much better info
20:32<Chutt>actors, etc
20:32<Chutt>but those aren't present in the text descriptions
20:32<moegreen>mdz: get all the keywords from the titles and description, take out common words (the, if, and, etc) and then present that list to the user?
20:33<Chutt>chris pinkham's committing stuff to cvs soon that makes it use just regular x if xv doesn't work
20:34<Chutt>software colorspace conversion and some scaling code
20:34<Chutt>should go in the same time as the rest of his newer commercial detection code =)
20:35<Chutt>i should commit that favorites patch tonight, too
20:35<Chutt>i'm just getting semi-worried about configuration overload
20:35<bigguy>ugh wtf
20:36<mdz>moegreen: something like that...not sure if it would work out, but wondering if you'd thought in that direction
20:36<mdz>maybe the remotelineedit approach is better in the long run
20:37<mdz>Chutt: I hadn't noticed that they had that info (actors, etc.) anywhere...I assumed they only sold it
20:37<moegreen>mdz: I did think of some other things like limiting searches by program type, etc. but not that, I'll look into it and the remotelineedit
20:37<mdz>xmltv could be smart and grab that info selectively. I would want it for movies, for instance
20:38<mdz>Chutt: is chris committing soon?
20:39<bigguy>hmm this is severely b0rked
20:40<bigguy>It wants to build in build-tree/xc but it copies nothing there and if I try to put something there it removes it
20:40<Chutt>mdz, dunno
20:40<Chutt>he had said he'd be emailing me an updated patch so i could look things over again
20:40<Chutt>he sent some in progress stuff this morning, and i commented on a couple things
20:40<Chutt>mostly the x fallback stuff, since some of it was slightly broken =)
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20:41<bigguy>weird nothing about that in the debian/ dir I can find
20:42<Chutt>more patches from andy davidoff!!!
20:43<bigguy>you go, boy
20:43<mdz>it makes me sad
20:43<mdz>because he's obviously putting effort into this
20:43<mdz>he has sent a lot of patches
20:43<Chutt>i accepted parts of a couple
20:44<Chutt>this latest one adds programratings table
20:44<mdz>oh dear
20:44<Chutt>just to store any ratings xmltv returned
20:46<mdz>hmm...I wrote a simple little playback app when I was testing the directrendering stuff...but I can't find it now
20:46<mdz>I'm going to fiddle with the buffering stuff some more
20:46<Chutt>easier when you don't have to run the frontend
20:46<Chutt>or the backend
20:46<mdz>yeah, makes it easier to isolate things too
20:48<Chutt>ya know why i don't like tabs in source?
20:48<Chutt>because if i'm scrolling around, they make the cursor jump more than i expected
20:48<Chutt>and same with deleting
20:51<Chutt>they're finally getting timeshifting =)
20:52<bigguy>ooooh python
20:52<mdz>I go back and forth about tabs
20:53<mdz>on the one hand, it's nice because if everyone is set up to use tabs, they can use their own indentation level
20:53<mdz>but on the other hand, it never really works out that way
20:53<mdz>emacs will automatically convert tabs to spaces when you delete, vim can probably do the same but I dunno how to set it up
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21:02<bigguy>you can set tabs to equal spaces in vim
21:02<bigguy>I just forgot how
21:04<moegreen>: 1,$! expand
21:07<bigguy>i had something in my old vimrc that was different from that but I lost it with the loss of my harddrive and my former web host
21:11<moegreen>that converts the tabs to 8 spaces, :1,$! expand -t 4 will convert it to 4 spaces
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22:04<Chutt>forgot to build up a machine spec for work :/
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23:05<_shad>Anyone around?
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23:22<PeteCool>Chutt: did you find some time to play with QHttp for mp3 streams?
23:24<Chutt>no, sorry
23:24<Chutt>got sidetracked
23:24<bigguy>Chutt: did you end up going to the car show?
23:25<bigguy>see anything you liked?
23:25<Chutt>nothing new, really
23:26<Chutt>still a tossup between a 350z roadster and a slk
23:26<Chutt>they didn't have the z roadster there, of course
23:26<Chutt>but =)
23:26<_shad>the difference a good cable connection makes on picture :P
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23:37<Chutt>both are stupid financially, but hey, when else can i buy something so impractical =)
23:37<bigguy>course pinto and good don't usually go together
23:43<_shad>Chutt: You haven't seen it when run on sep. machines, when watching, all of a sudden the sound just becomes little clicks?
23:43<_shad>must be something with the new server
23:43<_shad>I did an update and moved everything around at the same time. hehe
23:44<_shad>works very nice now though
23:44<_shad>main server is a celeron 300@450, and backend is a p3-450
23:44<_shad>with 320x240, the celeron is using about 60% cpu
23:44<_shad>and I found a nice cable that has less than an ohm of resistance
23:47<FredFunk>Has anyone run freevo? What are they trying to accomplish that hasn't been already completed by Mythtv?
23:48<_shad>Freevo existed before myth, did it not?
23:52<Chutt>it did
23:53<FredFunk>Seems like using a scripting language could be a nice development bonus but other than that...
23:53<bigguy>it was just a glorified mplayer frontend until recently tho
23:53<_shad>But myth made more progress in a month or so then freevo has in it's lifespan