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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-03-09

00:00<inman>i really think you should make .55 a requirement.
00:00<Chutt>the original
00:00<Chutt>i don't think it's the version number
00:00<inman>how could it not be?
00:01<Chutt>what all did you modify in the schema?
00:01<inman>nothing in those tables.
00:01<inman>but regardless, you've got all the evidence in front of you.
00:01<TheAsp>inman: would you make a 2gHz CPU a requirement too?
00:01<inman>asp: i think you're missing the point.
00:03<inman>hey chutt, how about the optimization i sent in for mythweb -- did you notice an improvement?
00:03<inman>that is a good example of search space reduction
00:03<Chutt>but then, i have quite a few fewer channels
00:03* inmannods.
00:04<Chutt>if you go through and add a hostname check to this query
00:05<Chutt>and anywhere else it needs to be in tv_rec.cpp
00:05<Chutt>i'll apply the patch, with the join changes, etc
00:05<inman>don't do it on my account
00:05<inman>but i am in there anyway, trying to figure out the input/externalcmd stuff.
00:06<inman>i just wrote a naive join for ya, too. :-P
00:06<inman>i'm serious about making a working sql server a requirement.
00:06<inman>it would improve everyone's experience; why is that bad?
00:06<Chutt>i'd need at least one more observation that that version # was bad
00:06<Chutt>it could be something else
00:07<inman>i'm not even sure how to compose a simpler example of multiple joins.
00:07<inman>are you?
00:07<Chutt>it is simple
00:07<inman>stupid mysql
00:08<Chutt>and it should be fairly easy for it to auto-optimize things, which is what it does for me, but not for you =)
00:08<inman>i have a friend who took the classes and almost took a job for monty
00:08<inman>i should ask her about this...
00:09<Chutt>fixed brian foddy's segfaults, apparently
00:09<Chutt>one more off the list
00:10<inman>should the Channel object manage the external-channel-command stuff?
00:10<Chutt>it could, i suppose
00:10<Chutt>the only reason it's calling the tvrec object is historical
00:11<inman>that's what i figured
00:11<Chutt>i had all the db access in there, and never moved it over
00:11<inman>but i'd rather put the code into tvrec if that's what is going to call channel
00:11<inman>does anyone call channel changes directly?
00:11<Chutt>has to go through the tvrec object
00:11* inmannods.
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00:24<Captain_Murdoch>anybody here?
00:24* inmannods.
00:24<Captain_Murdoch>know anything about the MythTV scheduler?
00:24<Chutt>a little
00:24<inman>it just got "fixed" in CVS.
00:24* inmansnickers.
00:24<Captain_Murdoch>:) just a little? I hope you know more than that...
00:25<Captain_Murdoch>quick question. if I record 2 adjacent programs on the same channel, that is setup as 2 different TVRec structures right? one quits and the other starts?
00:26<Chutt>tvrec gets setup on start, and never gets deleted
00:26<Captain_Murdoch>ahh, so does teardownrecorder get called in the middle?
00:26<Chutt>it'd transition to none, call teardownrecorder and all that
00:27<Chutt>then transition back to recording
00:27<Captain_Murdoch>hmm. must be something weird I'm doing then in my commercial stuff. I've setup adjacent programs to record and the first gets recorded but no commercial flags inserted it looks like. the second doesn't look like it got recorded but there are commercial breaks for it. I assume they're for the first one but haven't had a chance to troubleshoot yet.
00:27<Chutt>are you depending on the curRecording var in your thread?
00:28<Captain_Murdoch>I make a copy of it with this: ProgramInfo *program_info = new ProgramInfo(*curRecording); my thread does that first then sets a flag so the calling thread knows it can continue.
00:28<Chutt>that should be fine, then
00:29<Captain_Murdoch>seems to work fine if I don't have adjacent recordings. I'll keep looking into it. only got the 1st of 2 law & order's tonight.
00:29<Chutt>that's just what it sounded like, is all
00:30<inman>before recent cvs, comm. skipping didn't work for me on most SciFi stuff.
00:30<Captain_Murdoch>yeah. I have the calling thread sleep until the flag is set, then it continues on to do the normal freeing of curRecording, etc.. (right at the bottom of teardownrecorder)
00:30<inman>today it skipped something in the twilight zone.
00:31<Captain_Murdoch>inman, still kinda flakey on Law & Order because they do abnormal stuff. 0.9 will have much better detection routines and will do offline processing for commercials
00:31* inmangrins.
00:31<inman>the fade-in/fade-out is tough, period.
00:31<justin_>scifi has those weird scifi 10 second clips that confuse it i think
00:32<inman>yeah that's a problem too. the "children of dune" ads and whatnot.
00:33<Chutt>when's that on again?
00:33<inman>about a week
00:34<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, the offline processing should be able to catch those hopefully. right now the code just looks for 15, 20, 30, and 60 second spots. new stuff (after 0.8 release) will do a better job of detecting those short blurbs inbetween regular commercials and the show.
00:35<inman>i still think you can't try to know whether you're in a commercial or not.
00:35<inman>eg. you need to let people skip to the next boundary, versus skipping over the next break.
00:36* justin_growls
00:36<Captain_Murdoch>inman, I just added that into my source tree tonight. you can skip backwards to the previous boundary as well.
00:36<inman>cool, you da man.
00:37<Captain_Murdoch>uses the 'Q' key. look for it in CVS after 0.8 is released. not going in until after the feature freeze is over.
00:38<Chutt>snes roms take longer to scan than nes ones
00:38<Captain_Murdoch>anyway, gotta go. just wanted to ask that quick question about recording so I can track down this bug so I can be ready to merge in the new code. Liam said he is working on logo detection code as well, so that will help commercial detection as well.
00:40<Chutt>having a progress bar really helps.
00:49<mdz>PeteCool: if anything, the new stuff should be faster
00:49<mdz>it's still pretty slow, though, as it makes a lot of queries to load the recording info
00:50<inman>i thought that was rejected as a possible excuse?
00:59<mdz>Chutt: any particular reason why RingBuffer::Read() takes a void* instead of a char*?
01:03<Chutt>qmake is silly sometimes
01:05<bigguy>could be worse
01:06<bigguy>it could be autotools
01:06<inman>where are there separate interfaces for watching and deleting content?
01:07<mdz>ahh, that's better
01:07<mdz>this streambuf-based reader works nicely
01:07<inman>mdz: fixed your latency problem?
01:08<mdz>inman: haven't tried anything so adventurous
01:08<mdz>but the seeking is nice and snappy
01:08<mdz>and it doesn't have half the bugs
01:08<inman>care to send me a patch?
01:08<Chutt>inman, because i like them separate
01:08<mdz>it was one of those cases where I took some existing code and wasted a lot of time trying to adapt it when I should have started from scratch
01:08<inman>chutt: can i make it an option?
01:09* inmannods to mdz.
01:09<mdz>inman: something's still weird with it, not just yet
01:09<Chutt>does it need to be?
01:09<Chutt>you can play from the delete screen and delete from the play screen
01:09<Chutt>and it's easy to remove one of them from the menu
01:09<inman>chutt: i know, i just want to see the space that stuff is taking up.
01:09<mdz>Chutt: on a couple of occasions while I've been debugging this stuff, I seem to lose my stderr for no apparent reason (my debugging messages no longer appear). ever seen that?
01:09<Chutt>i'd prefer not to combine the two anymore
01:09<mdz>the fd isn't closed or anything, it just quits
01:09<Chutt>mdz, nope
01:10<Chutt>maybe you changed the buffering on it? =)
01:10<inman>hmm, i can play from the delete screen, so i guess that works.
01:10<mdz>it was happening when I was messing with other things before this
01:11<mdz>inman: you want to try this?
01:11<inman>hell yeah
01:11<mdz>inman: email?
01:12<mdz>one patch and one file that should be added to libmythtv
01:14<Chutt>how much does it buffer?
01:16<mdz>set to 2M right now
01:16<inman>mdz: tstreambuf.h isn't in a system include dir by default.
01:16<Chutt>so, 4 or 5 seconds i'd assume?
01:17<mdz>yeah, about that for 330kbs
01:17<mdz>inman: -I.
01:18<Chutt>send me a copy, i'll check it out tomorrow morning
01:18<mdz>the makefile already does it
01:18<Chutt>time for bed, though
01:18<mdz>Chutt: there's a race somewhere that I'm going to track down first
01:18<inman>i know, but not for me.
01:18<Chutt>well, whenever =)
01:18<mdz>Chutt: post-0.8 ;-)
01:18<Chutt>i was just curious
01:19<Chutt>wondering if it'd help full-frame mjpeg at all
01:19<Chutt>probably won't, but...
01:20<mdz>about 1 in 3 times it segfaults as it's gearing up
01:20<inman>yer debugging eats up >50% of my cpu thanks to xterm
01:20<inman>"Read 0" forever...
01:20<mdz>not with my test cases, but in mythtv
01:20<mdz>inman: hah...I don't get any of it
01:20<mdz>due to that weirdness I was just talking about
01:21* inmannods.
01:21<mdz>works 100% of the time in gdb of course
01:21<inman>2nd time, same deal.
01:21* inmanfrowns.
01:21<mdz>the not crashing, not the stderr thing
01:22<mdz>in what context are you using it?
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01:23* inmannods.
01:23<mdz>I've only used it with a test program to do playback, not in mythfrontend
01:23<mdz>"Read 0" is pretty strange
01:24<inman>it's coming from the backend process
01:24<inman>this only applies to livetv, correct?
01:25<mdz>is your backend remote?
01:25<mdz>this will only apply to local playback I think
01:26<inman>my backend is local
01:26<inman>i can't play previously recorded stuff
01:26<inman>trying to do live playback results in the many Read 0 errors
01:28<mdz>what is live playback?
01:29<mdz>yes, that is not likely to work
01:32<inman>what are you using for playback? mplayer?
01:34<inman>hmmm, there needs to be a way to have the tuner tune to channel 3-4 and then use external tuning thereafter.
01:34<bigguy>there is
01:34<bigguy>Some people already do that
01:34<bigguy>using sat
01:34<bigguy>or cable box
01:35<mdz>inman: just a simple program that uses nuppelvideoplayer in libmythtv
01:35<mdz>on a local file
01:35<PeteCool>justin_: unless you're really attracted to a remote where many buttons pairs send the same signals, don't buy a leadtek winfast
01:35<inman>bigguy: i think they are using composite inputs, though.
01:36<PeteCool>justin_: I shouldv'e bought a TV Wonder instead, but I wanted a remote. Now I have no btaudio, and have to buy a remote anyway
01:36<bigguy>inman: not all
01:36<inman>now do they do it, then?
01:36<inman>the TV input always tunes (unless you patch the source).
01:36<inman>no external channel changing for TV input...
01:37<bigguy>hmm weird I was sure one of them was using the tv input and not coax
01:37<bigguy>cause they said it would tune to channel 3 and then myth used the external channel changing script
01:38<inman>if the input is named "Television", it will use the TV tuner on the card and never attempt the external changer.
01:42<Viddy>is there anything in there for dvd playback yet?
01:43<bigguy>you can add a button for any app to play dvd's
01:44<Viddy>is it wanting?
01:44<Viddy>it would seem that it wouldn't be a bad thing to have in the .8 release
01:44<bigguy>not now
01:44<bigguy>I think Chutt wants to wait a bit
01:44<Viddy>oh, ok
01:45<Viddy>he wants to do it in-house so to speak
01:45<bigguy>I believe
01:45<Viddy>fair enough
01:46<inman>huh, i didn't know that.
01:48<bigguy>inman: didn't know what?
01:55<inman>that chutt wanted dvd "in-house".
01:58<bigguy>well I might be wrong but I could have swore I saw him write something about it in an email
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13:25<PeteCool>anybody running glibc 2.3.2 with the binary nvidia drivers?
13:40<PeteCool>anybody alive here?
13:40<PeteCool>seems way more silent than usual :)
13:42<bigguy>I just got home
13:45<PeteCool>got your myth box set up yet?
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14:00<PeteCool>hi nathan
14:00<PeteCool>did you make your osd work?
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14:11<bigguy>sorry was getting my lunch
14:11<bigguy>PeteCool: haven't set it up yet
14:12<nziarek>PeteCool: No...I am still working on it
14:12<nziarek>wait - was Nathan me?
14:12<nziarek>or are there more nathans lurking about??
14:13<bigguy>I'm not a nathan
14:13<nziarek>OK :)
14:15<nziarek>other than moegreen and rkulagow, I can't place anyone here to the folks on the list
14:15<PeteCool>nziarek: you're the only nathan I ever knew anything about :)
14:15<nziarek>ok...well, that all said, I am still working on it...
14:15<PeteCool>not even me? though I'm pretty silent
14:16<nziarek>i am just uploading my ideas now
14:16<PeteCool>what's your url again?
14:16<nziarek>but they aren't on a page yet.
14:16<nziarek>hang on...i'll get you links
14:17<bigguy>I'm Wayne Johnson, but I don't post often
14:18<PeteCool>nziarek: the episode box is great
14:20<bigguy>nziarek: what theme are you currently working on?
14:20<nziarek>i like how that turned out
14:20<nziarek>i am working on Iulius still, but on the OSD
14:22<PeteCool>looks great!
14:23<nziarek>PeteCool: Thanks...suggestions welcome
14:23<PeteCool>I think you should also take a look at the "exit dialog" when you have "Prompt on exit" enabled, it's bad
14:23<PeteCool>half of the screen filled with transparent nothingness
14:23<nziarek>like the editor?
14:23<nziarek>is that only in CVS...I am running .7
14:23<PeteCool>yes, that's in cvs
14:24<PeteCool>but I think .7 might have had it too
14:25<nziarek>i'll have to see...ideally any dialog that would come up could be themed...
14:25<PeteCool>I'll let the alsa compiles finish and I'll find the real name for the option
14:25<nziarek>ok, great
14:25<PeteCool>this one is extremely good:
14:25<PeteCool>the others are very nice too, just this one is even better :)
14:25<bigguy>where is the osd link
14:26<bigguy>I don't see one on the sidebar
14:26<PeteCool>use the one nathan pasted
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14:28<nziarek>bigguy: I am still getting the pages made...check out
14:28<nziarek>PeteCool: I like that the most too; it had the most to work with
14:28<nziarek>the others just don't display as much
14:28<nziarek>so I had fewer ideas for them
14:30<PeteCool>any of them would be a great enhancement
14:32<PeteCool>do you think they need big code modifications?
14:33<nziarek>I don't relaly know...Chutt said s/he was going to work on that code soon, so I was going to come up with some ideas to help them decide on how to enable theming
14:34<nziarek>i think right now you are stuck with all the same font size
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14:36<bigguy>I was so lagged
14:37<bigguy>that connection was up for 4 days 12 hours
14:42<PeteCool>bigguy: before I got cable my dialup had been up for at least 4 months (it was disconnected every 22~23 hours by the isp, but then went right up)
14:43<bigguy>PeteCool: I meant that it was up without disconnect
14:43<bigguy>PeteCool: my gateway automagicly redials if the isp drops
14:44<bigguy>PeteCool: which up until 4 days ago it did every 12 hours
14:55<Chutt>nziarek, those look nice, but there's a couple things.. gotta make sure it looks semi-ok at really low resolutions, like 320x240
14:55<Chutt>since the OSD is always drawn at the video recording resolution
14:59<Chutt>although, hmm
14:59<Chutt>i wonder how much time it'd take to software scale the video up to 640x480, always
14:59<PeteCool>isn't there any other way to put it in there?
15:00<Chutt>not if you want it blended into the video
15:00<PeteCool>is it really that important to have it blended in? I'd rather have nathan's OSD, unblended, I think
15:01<PeteCool>of course if it's possible, why not
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15:06<Chutt>petecool, the only other way to do it would be to have shaped X windows displayed on top of the video
15:06<mdz>oh no
15:06<Chutt>it'd be a nasty hack, and fairly slow
15:06<mdz>large file support seems to be broken in the iostreams lib in gcc 3.2
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15:07<mdz>gnatsweb sucks a lot
15:08<mdz>worse than debbugs even
15:08<mdz>I can't even paste a URL for the bug report because it's a POST
15:15<mdz>but basically they blew it
15:15<mdz>I guess I have to wait for libstdc++6
15:23<Soopaman>which guy in here had the mythtv php gallery
15:36<inman>chutt: in the future, mythmusic is going to want to stream/save files to URLs outside of the recording path.
15:38<PeteCool>Chutt: had time to play with QHttp yet?
15:38<bigguy>Soopaman: it's now hosted on
15:38<PeteCool>I started reading some stuff about C++, I might be of some help soon
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16:35<inman>mdz: the iostreams bug may explain the failure of your patch on my box, too.
16:35<mdz>inman: yep
16:35<mdz>inman: my test files happened to be smaller than 2GB
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17:25<inman>mdz: mine are all larger than 2gb thanks to rtjpeg.
17:29<sc00p>hey guys, is the "adjust a recording time" option under fix conflicts functioning properly? I've never been able to get it to work right...
17:30<sc00p>maybe my database is messed up?
17:34<inman>sourceforge's search engine is skewed towards popular projects. so dumb.
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18:29<mdz>sc00p: no, I'm pretty sure that has never really worked right
18:29<mdz>Chutt: thought about disabling that for 0.8?
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18:40<sc00p>mdz: ok, thanks
18:40* inmanscratches his head.
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19:12<nyquiljer>Chutt: i'm way out of touch, so i apologize if this is a frequent question. if i were to work on another osd theme, has anything changed in cvs regarding the format?
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19:21<inman>why don't you look at the old and new osd themes and see if they have changed?
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19:33<inman>anyone here using multiple inputs?
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20:59<PeteCool>Chutt: are nathan's needed changes for the OSD complex?
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21:12<jernyquil>anyone around and feel like testing out an in progress OSD theme?
21:15<nziarek>I've got the new Iulius OSD up for comment... know if you have any suggestions
21:16<jernyquil>oh wow, thats really nice
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21:17<jernyquil>...stupid cvs gaim
21:18<PeteCool>you can do irc with gaim-cvs? didn't know that
21:18<PeteCool>xchat is nice
21:18<jernyquil>actually, gaim has been able to connect to irc for a long long time
21:18<jernyquil>and it uses xchat, i think
21:18<jernyquil>i'm just all of a sudden having stability problems, and i blame cvs :)
21:19<jernyquil>your nbc logo: did you have to cut it out manually?
21:19<jernyquil>i made the osd thats currently in use, and as far as i know all the channel icons have white backgrounds
21:20<nziarek>yeah...I did have to cut it out. I was considering doing something like that for all of them
21:20<nziarek>if it is just a white background, I can write a sript for in photoshop and save them as PNGs
21:20<nziarek>but, then that is csomething else to have to download
21:20<jernyquil>well, those are downloaded from zap2it, right?
21:22<nziarek>yeah, it would have to be rewritten to check for the "updated" icons, if not there, display the zap2it ones...probably not worth it for a minor cosmetic change. at least not yet
21:22<jernyquil>yeh. i thought about that as well
21:22<jernyquil>another concern i had was that some people may have channels i dont know about
21:23<nziarek>right...those would have to be sent to someone and fixed as they came about...
21:24<jernyquil>so is this functional, or are these just mockups?
21:25<nziarek>just mockups right now. I can split them into the graphic components pretty easily, but I'd have to figure out that text file.
21:25<jernyquil>ooh, i really like the qt widget masking idea
21:26<jernyquil>yeh, that took me lots of tweaking with to get working
21:26<jernyquil>that is a really really great idea
21:26<jernyquil>do you mind takin a look at the changes i just made?
21:27<jernyquil>i dont have mythtv installed on this box, so its impossible to test it out
21:27<nziarek>i don't know the url, but i think they are working on something even better than the masking idea (more like here:
21:27<nziarek>you know -neither do I...this is a Windows machine...sorry :)
21:27<jernyquil>i was afraid that might be the case when you said photoshop :)
21:28<nziarek>yeah, Myth is my first foray into Linux. I am liking it, but the comfort level isn't there yet
21:30<jernyquil>it takes time
21:30<jernyquil>i deleted my wind95 partition in 1996
21:31<jernyquil>and i still have to look stuff up every time i need to do something
21:31<nziarek>reassuring =)
21:31<jernyquil>i exaggerated
21:32<jernyquil>day to day stuff is fine
21:32<jernyquil>but if i get some new hardware, often it takes a lot of looking things up
21:34<nziarek>i can imagine. I had my hardware here for 2 months before i could figure out enough to install RH and Myth
21:36<jernyquil>how was installing myth in rh?
21:36<jernyquil>ive only done it in debian (pre packages tho)
21:36<jernyquil>i'm running slack now, and am quite afraid of all the dependencies
21:38<nziarek> needed to always have the language changed (like UTF-8 or something) before you ran MythFilldatabase
21:39<nziarek>plus, ALSA support seemed too hard
21:40<nziarek>so I switched to Mandrake
21:40<nziarek>much easier
21:41<jernyquil>i thought mandrake was essentially the same as rh
21:42<nziarek>i am not the person to debate it, but it has ALSA support out of the box
21:42<nziarek>and that made all the difference to running Myth
21:42<jernyquil>oh, that makes sense
21:42<jernyquil>preconfigured is always nice
21:42<PeteCool>jernyquil: mandrake was pretty much the same thing as redhat many years ago... they forked totally many years back, 1998~1999
21:44<jernyquil>oh, i guess i'm a bit behind the times :)
21:44<jernyquil>thats what i'm working on. its the same layout as the default one that i made
21:44<jernyquil>but i think its prettier. i have the more black style as well
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21:45<inman>i think you should be able to cutout channel icons using `convert`; maybe even do it inside myth.
21:46<nziarek>inman: can you explain "convert"
21:46<jernyquil>well, how would you do it, just replace white with alpha?
21:46<nziarek>jernyquil: i like it...i love the blue fade
21:46<inman>it's a binary, comes with image magic.
21:46<jernyquil>nziarek: convert is a utility
21:46<jernyquil>imagemagick is sooo useful
21:46<inman>sample a corner pixel, then fill that color (from that corner) with alpha.
21:47<inman>you don't want to just replace white, since it may exist inside the logo.
21:47<jernyquil>what if the logo goes clear to that corner?
21:47<inman>actually, i think i may have done this once before.
21:48<nziarek>the problem is that the logo is probably blended with the background...just replacing white and putting that on a black background would make a jagged halo type thing, wouldn't it?
21:48<jernyquil>nziarek: thanks :)
21:48<jernyquil>nziarek: yeh, it would, if the icons are antialiased, but i dont recall them being that way
21:48<inman>yeah, take a look at mythweather to see the effect. it's not great.
21:49<nziarek>where is it used in MythWeather?
21:49<inman>the weather images.
21:49<inman>they don't blend into the background. white jagged edges.
21:49<jernyquil>inman: i looked at those just the other day and was wondering what the deal with those was. now i know
21:50<inman>even with a fuzzy cutout as there is in photoshop, i'm not sure it would work.
21:50<nziarek>you know, the worst part is, i made those images...they aren't "white cut outs" =)
21:51<inman>heh, then you can probably fix 'em. :-)
21:51<nziarek>i've never been able to run MythWeather (I have .7), and they looked fine in Photoshop
21:51<inman>in photoshop it's easy; just cut em out normally and paste 'em onto an alpha.
21:51<nziarek>i'll look into fixing them, though :)
21:51<jernyquil>nziarek: well, you can see what we are talking aobut in the screenshots on
21:52* inmankinda wishes he had a windows box right about now...
21:52<inman>as far as the channels go, i'd rather see a white channel icon than a poorly cutout icon.
21:52<inman>even if it's white, you can still shape it.
21:53<jernyquil>yeh, i'm with you on that
21:53<inman>one thing i mean to fix is the pause osd. i want it to timeout and autohide as it does on my tivo.
21:53<inman>and there should be a way to set the gravity of individual osd elements.
21:54<jernyquil>inman: i was thinking about that a long time ago when i made the current osd, itd be nice to be able to split it into individual pixmaps and then have the text elements centered on those, so its easy to move elements around
21:55<jernyquil>isaac was constantly changing things for me the whole time, and i didnt want to get too tricky :)
21:55<inman>well i'll take a look at it when i finish this hack.
21:56<nziarek>Isaac is great about changing things to make Myth look nice...
21:56<jernyquil>he sure is. it was quite nice
21:56<jernyquil>he'd just drop everything he was working on and have whatever change i wanted ASAP
21:57<inman>it's nice when you know the codebase. i'm slowly absorbing stuff.
21:58<nziarek>So, I looked at those graphics and they are pretty've convinced me enough that I'll work on fixing them :)
21:59<inman>what resolution do you run at?
22:00<nziarek>Myth: 800x600, Design 1280x1024
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22:01<inman>ah, i'm at 1600x1200, so maybe the scaling makes it that much worse.
22:02<jernyquil>you run myth at that high of res? wow
22:03<inman>wow, the evening-fair-crescent-moon image looks evil.
22:11<inman>is it reasonable to not display output for inputs that are undefined in the database?
22:12<inman>eg. to essentially ignore them?
22:19<inman>anyone using a WinTV with tv-input and composite?
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