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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-03-31

00:00<inman>moegreen: i see you added my corner case. did you extend it to the normal deletion case?
00:00<inman>moegreen: or is that hidden by the images?
00:01<moegreen>inman: that was a slightly seperate issue. In that case the listCount wasn't getting updated, so I had to put in a special case to check if the listCount is less than the listsize
00:01<moegreen>inman: I tested it on a recording or two, and it seemed to work :)
00:02<inman>moegreen: i trust you. :-)
00:02* inmanwishes he had time to hack. :-(
00:10<-- nyquiljer( has left #mythtv
00:12<Chutt>the list guy also wants support for music videos
00:12<Chutt>using ocr or something to recognize titles and stuff
00:12<Chutt>err, lisp
00:12<inman>he's a sick man.
00:13<inman>now, ocaml i could see... but lisp?
00:13* inmanshivers.
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00:21<inman>after viewing a program and returning to `delete programs`, i'm missing the disk-space indicator at the bottom...
00:21<PeteCool>about the myth boxes: I do intend to sell some at a small scale, unless there are issues with that
00:22<PeteCool>inman: with which qt version?
00:22<Chutt>it is of course, fine with me =) just don't advertise on the list without asking me first
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00:23<PeteCool>Chutt: I'll start with local first, easier to support and set up
00:23<moegreen>inman: heh ... i see what the problem is ... i'll have a fix in a second
00:23<PeteCool>local being in my city or such
00:23<inman>moegreen: you da man.
00:23<inman>moegreen: it's intermittent, btw.
00:24<moegreen>inman: i'm changing the update(listRect()); to a fullRect() update to force it to redraw
00:24<PeteCool>Chutt: static text strings to display? Like if I always wanted to see "Pete's Myth box" or such on my osd?
00:25<Chutt>or a description of how to use the edit mode, for instance
00:25<Chutt>i need to do some more stuff with edit mode
00:25<Chutt>positioning for the various status messages that show up, etc
00:26<m0tion>hmm, why i try to encode a CD with flac via mythmusic it seg faults saying "couldn't init encoder" ... can it just not find the flac encoder?
00:26<Chutt>that's an error message saying it couldn't initialize the flac encoder
00:27<Chutt>you may not have permissions on the file it's trying to write to, for instance
00:27<PeteCool>can't be more descriptive
00:27<m0tion>whats the executeable name for flac, flac? =)
00:27<PeteCool>should be
00:27<Chutt>it's not using the executible
00:28<m0tion>oh geez, right
00:28<m0tion>well, i'm running it as root, so it's not a permissions issue
00:28<m0tion>and OGG works just fine
00:28<PeteCool>Chutt: do you need/want the mp3 decoding library in mythmusic to be GPL?
00:29<inman>still having the cd-import bug whereby i can't import a disc. at all quality levels, it imports no data and writes out what i assume are just the id tags. import happens in 2-3 seconds.
00:29<PeteCool>Chutt: the one mpg123 uses doesn't crash on my older files (those made with crappier encoders)
00:30<inman>tried rebuilding my libs with no improvements...
00:30<Chutt>i'm not changing the decoder from mad
00:30-!-NonToxic is now known as zZzToxic
00:30<Chutt>inman, very odd
00:30<Chutt>i assume cdparanoia works fine?
00:31<inman>it's gotta be something with my setup
00:31<inman>this worked fine under rh, just not working under gentoo.
00:31<m0tion>any idea as to the problem?
00:31<Chutt>m0tion, nope
00:32<m0tion>ok, thanks anyway, i'm sure i'll iron it out eventually
00:32<Ndiin>inman: works fine for me on gentoo, so I'd assume its not a distrib problem.
00:33<bigguy>inman: some developer from #E said "man I can't believe how hosed gentoo is"
00:33<inman>Ndiin: yeah. and we're not exactly the first gentoo users using myth.
00:33<bigguy>inman: he was having all kinds of problems
00:33<inman>frankly, i love gentoo so far.
00:33<moegreen>inman: that fix is in
00:33<inman>moegreen: booyah. thanks. good to strike another from my bug list.
00:34<bigguy>If you like compiling everything
00:34<inman>gentoo yielded enough of a speed improvement to let me use mpeg4 at 320x240
00:34<inman>yes, i like compiling everything.
00:34<inman>as a longtime sysadmin, i know the value of the gentoo model.
00:35<inman>its value to me is apparently more than its value to others here. let's not restart that holy war.
00:35<Ndiin>I mostly like 1) portage's interface and 2) patching everything with significant ease.
00:35<Ndiin>But yeah, not a topic for here, I suppose.
00:35<bigguy>I prefer bsd for that model
00:36* bigguyheads off to bed
00:38* bigguyis [away -={ SLEEP }=- ]
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00:45<PeteCool>moegreen: after a popup appeared, with the fill method, the top of the screen doesn't redraw, it stays with the same gradient
00:46<moegreen>PeteCool: right...oops...forgot I changed the around for that part of the screen while I was testing
00:47<Bonkers>anyone happen to know why everything in myth is soooooo slow, like watch program tkaes like 20 seconds to load? I'm gonna look into that probably this week some time and see what I can do, seems like it should be much much faster
00:49<moegreen>PeteCool: in cvs now
00:50<moegreen>Bonkers: it take under a second here
00:50<Bonkers>hrm, about how many programs do you have?
00:50<Bonkers>I've got 72 here
00:51<moegreen>around 40 i guess
00:51<PeteCool>Chutt: the "rewind-wall" problem has alleviated a lot in the last few days
00:51<Bonkers>that's odd, I'll have to look into why mine is so slow then
00:52<moegreen>Bonkers: have you tried using the generated pixmap and not the live video preview? just to see the difference
00:52<Bonkers>I have those off because they have given me trouble in the past
00:52<Bonkers>oh btw, when the whole background darkens when the popup comes up, the area where the preview would be is not darkened
00:53<m0tion>metadata.o: Your database is out of whack (no tracks, missing columns, etc.). Not good. <==-- I get this when I run MythMusic, whats the deal?
00:54<Bonkers>actually, not anymore, I'm not sure when that happens
00:55<Bonkers>I just noticed some bad things happen when I hit D to delete a program and then click the background with the mouse, the display is still darkened and hte popup is gone
00:56<Ndiin>m0tion: are you running the binary in a directory that contains an uneditted mythmusic-settings.txt?
00:56<Ndiin>m0tion: It checks ./ first, then the share dirs.
00:56<Ndiin>(for settings)
00:56<m0tion>yes, thats the problem
00:56<m0tion>thank you
00:58<moegreen>Bonkers: I'm not seeing the preview area not being shaded, as for clicking on the background - there isn't much I can do to stop you from clicking on a different window (which is what you are doing)
00:59<Bonkers>moegreen: hmm, well the preview one magically disapperaed, maybe in the last CVS update, but normally when I click another window I can get the old one back with alt-tab, I can't seem to find hte popup again, but if I hit esc then I'm back to the watch tv/watch program/whatever menu and all is fine, the popup just goes to nevernever land or something
01:00<moegreen>Bonkers: that's more because the MythPopup widget isn't really registered as it's own window
01:00<Bonkers>maybe it should be? I'm assuming it gets behind and then it dies when I hit esc, but I really have no way of telling
01:01<moegreen>well...mythtv is designed with the idea that you would be using a
01:02<Ndiin>Just make sure that the popup box can be killed in the destructor if it exists..
01:02<Ndiin>the playbackbox destructor, that is
01:02<Bonkers>ya, normaly the mouse is hidden thgouh and I can't do that, do you have to actively hide the mouse in the popup?
01:03<moegreen>Bonkers: That is probably something that needs to be added to the widget
01:03<Bonkers>ok, just a thought, not a major issue
01:04<moegreen>Bonkers: I noticed it being there when I took some screenshots
01:07<m0tion>there any way to back out of MythMusic while your ripping a CD and watch TV
01:07<m0tion>without exiting mythmusic?
01:07<Ndiin>Alt tab ;)
01:07<m0tion>i mean without breaking out of the menuing system
01:07<Ndiin>then no =p
01:07<inman>just run mythtv from a cmdline
01:07<m0tion>that could be a new "feature" =)
01:08<inman>the windows are stacked, so if you could refocus them, you'd be good to go.
01:09<Ndiin>Window refocusing is fun when using a window manager that arbitrarly layers them...
01:09<Ndiin>With alt-tab (or equivilent), that is
01:11<m0tion>what window manager do you guys use when you have your box hooked up to the TV?
01:11<Bonkers>I use windowmaker
01:11<Bonkers>seems to work well enough
01:11<m0tion>fluxbox ~ blackbox?
01:12<Ndiin>Basically fluxbox = blackbox + some mods
01:14<Ndiin>hmm, Zwan isn't too bad.. its basically soft smashing pumpkins songs. heh
01:15<PeteCool>I'm using oroborus as window manager
01:15<PeteCool>moegreen: could you also make the popup reactive to enter keypresses?
01:16<Ndiin>PeteCool: yeah, my mother was spazzing out the other day due to Enter not working ;)
01:16<Ndiin>"Enter's broken! Come fix it!"
01:17<moegreen>hmm...well it's just using the MythPushButton - i'll have to look into that tomorrow
01:17<Ndiin>Actually, I'd be glad if it was that descriptive.. she just says "Its broken", doesnt bother giving context and actions
01:17<m0tion>your mom uses a mythtv box?
01:17<Ndiin>yeah, she wanted a tivo type thing, so I set up a mythtv box for her instead
01:18<Bonkers>and you make her use CVS?
01:18<Ndiin>nah, thats my doing, how else are you going to find bugs? ;)
01:19<m0tion>great idea, your mom is a beta-tester =)
01:19<Ndiin>unpredictable users are always the best.
01:19<Ndiin>Preferably when their memory is worse than a 10y/o floppy disk.
01:19<PeteCool>CVS only gave me problems once... Chutt mdz and others don't ssem to make too big changes without previous testing
01:20<PeteCool>CVS isn't a problem really
01:20<PeteCool>I mean the CVS versions
01:20<Ndiin>Nah, its pretty stable.
01:20<Ndiin>Just a few minor bugs here and there
01:20<Bonkers>my myth was segfaulting after just about every recording ending yesterday, dunno if it's still happening, if it is I"ll have to investigate
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01:20<Ndiin>I just tend to make sure its fairly stable before updating that box
01:21<moegreen>Bonkers: make sure you have done a 'make distclean' in your programs/mythfrontend and mythbackend dirs
01:21<inman>Chutt: well, that's one way (cvs.sql) ;-)
01:21<PeteCool>Bonkers: I think your problems aren't coming from myth, but either borken hardware or a broken linux install
01:21<Chutt>inman, easiest way to put an end to that discussion =)
01:21<Bonkers>PeteCool: nah, it was fine like 3 days ago, just started happening yesterday I think
01:21* inmangrins.
01:22<Chutt>eventually, i'll want things to auto-update the schema and stuff
01:22<Chutt>just, not yet
01:22<inman>fair enough.
01:22<Chutt>i don't want tons and tons of old-version upgrading code
01:22<PeteCool>Bonkers: even the slowness?
01:23<inman>you do recognize the problem, though...
01:23<Chutt>my feeling is that if you're following cvs closely (like, checkout's always less than a week old), cvs.sql will always work
01:24<Bonkers>PeteCool: not quite sure when the slowness started, may have been with the new program listings
01:24<Chutt>if you're older than that and updating, you're out of luck and will have to look to see what's changed
01:24<Ndiin>Not that hard to check out old revisions of cvs.sql if need be, anyhow.
01:24<inman>Chutt: i think the problem i outlined is possible given some of the fast-paced db changes we've seen.
01:25<inman>Chutt: i update every few commits. i'm sure i'm not alone.
01:25<Chutt>i don't think i've ever invalidated a db change
01:25<Chutt>well, not until it's been in for awhile
01:25<inman>hey, you said you didn't like my quoting style.
01:26<inman>what don't you like?
01:26<Bonkers>anyone else have the problem where after make distclean they gotta do make, then mythepg complains it can't make libmythtv.a then you gotta go to libs/libmythtv and make, that goes fine, then the toplevel make works again?
01:26<Chutt>'sides, i don't really see any massive db changes in the future
01:26<Chutt>inman, the #endif
01:26<Chutt>is all =)
01:26<inman>easily rm'ed for myth broadcasts. :-)
01:26<Chutt>i don't really care
01:26<Ndiin>Bonkers: multithreaded make screws up is all. do: make -j1
01:26* inmanshrugs.
01:27<Bonkers>Ndiin: oh, that's probably it, shouldn't qmake be -j2+ safe though?
01:27<inman>it seems to me it's in my best interests not to annoy you any more than i already do. :-P
01:27<Ndiin>Bonkers: it should be, but its not
01:27<Chutt>naw, don't worry 'bout that
01:27<Chutt>setting your reply-too explicitly is more annoying =)
01:27<Chutt>but i can understand wanting to do that
01:27<PeteCool>inman: I'm pretty sure Chutt finds me more annoying than you :)
01:28<inman>Chutt: i'm setting it explicity at your request!
01:28<inman>Chutt: a request you made while not setting the reply-to, btw, the very criticism you made of me. :-P
01:28<inman>PeteCool: give me time...
01:28<Chutt>no, i just asked that you not cc me off-list
01:28<inman>Chutt: oh yeah. i fixed that programatically.
01:29<Chutt>since i don't like to get two copies of something
01:29<inman>Chutt: but in doing so, you cc'd me off list.
01:29<Chutt>i replied to the first one i got
01:29<Chutt>and didn't notice it was off list
01:29<inman>i know, i just thought it was funny. :-)
01:29<inman>Chutt: doesn't my reply-to get hammered out by the list?
01:30<inman>well i can fix that too.
01:30<Chutt>i don't have mailman set to remove it
01:30<inman>such are the miracles of mutt.
01:30<Chutt>naw, i could just make mailman do it if i wanted to
01:30<inman>it's no big deal.
01:30<Chutt>doesn't really matter
01:30<inman>just trying to follow a well-accepted etiquette.
01:30<Chutt>i just have to manually edit out your email from the to: line
01:30<Chutt>when i respond to something of yours
01:31<Chutt>easy, doesn't take any time
01:31<Chutt>and other people do it too, so
01:34<inman>in any case, i filter dupes, so don't worry about editing me (though i've fixed that).
01:34<inman>may as well fix it at mailman.
01:35<Chutt>wonder how hard it'd be to use the qpainter::redirect stuff to make the epg draw on the video
01:35<Chutt>'course, it'd be horribly slow..
01:35<inman>you know how we love to lose CPU...
01:36<inman>there's a guy in *users complaining that he can't get myth to run in 640x480 on his toothbrush.
01:37<Chutt>ah well
01:37<inman>how slow would it be?
01:37<Ndiin>my Palm Zire can't run mythtv! fix it!!
01:37<Bonkers>on a tooth brush? I'd assume pretty slow ;)
01:38<inman>Bonkers: i dunno, it's a pretty high-end model.
01:38<Chutt>well, maybe not _that_ slow
01:38<Chutt>i imagine the original epg, without any category coloring
01:38<Chutt>might be ok
01:38<Chutt>it'd be fairly difficult to read, though
01:38<inman>Chutt: how does tivo do this sort of thing? any idea?
01:38<Chutt>i've never seen a tivo
01:39<inman>i should send you one, i literally have them laying around the house.
01:39<Chutt>i kind of like being able to say i've never seen one in action
01:40<inman>it might soften you to my UI complaints. ;-)
01:40<Chutt>yeah, but your recent ui complaints were because you didn't have the graphics
01:40<inman>i was glad to see bjm stick up for the quality in the recent list traffic, too.
01:41<inman>my UI problems aren't in look/feel but in navigation ease.
01:41<Chutt>oh, hardware encoding wins, hands down
01:41<inman>and consistency.
01:41<inman>Chutt: that's why i'm holding onto my pvr-350. but from what bjm says, that ain't half the problem.
01:41<moegreen>inman: but i'm sure having those graphics helped out the look department, heh.
01:41<Chutt>well, the rest is due to the fact that linux sucks
01:42<inman>moegreen: of course. no contest. myth looks like a commercial product now thanks to you and nathan. :-)
01:42<inman>Chutt: i recall you saying that you don't run 2.5, is that right?
01:42<inman>Chutt: so no low-latency patch?
01:42<inman>Chutt: i know tivo uses a fairly aggressive scheduler.
01:43<Chutt>basically, if it can make a usleep wake up when it's supposed to, and not up to 10ms late, things would be better
01:43<Chutt>and if i knew when the vsyncs were, etc
01:44<inman>10ms is a loooong time, what is the story with that problem?
01:44<inman>may as well be a second
01:44<Chutt>the scheduler works in 10ms chunks
01:44<Chutt>well, it has up until 2.5
01:44<Chutt>that's been changed now
01:44<inman>wow, i didn't know that
01:45<inman>i remember the origins of the early scheduling fixes from mingo and i thought that got into 2.2, let alone 2.4
01:45<Chutt>nope, HZ is still 100
01:45<PeteCool>I'm using the lowlatency patch with 2.4, works fine... but then I didn't really use it seriously without it
01:45<Chutt>100 time slices a second
01:45<Chutt>apparetly, 2.6'll be a lot better
01:46<Chutt>and i keep meaning to mess around with stuff
01:46<inman>the new latency stuff looks really promising -- the mingo-combo
01:46<Chutt>but, my dev machine is also what i use for work
01:46<Chutt>and i can't afford to have that messed up at all
01:46<PeteCool>I don't think the improvement 2.4->2.6 is going to be as dramatic as 2.2->2.4
01:46<Bonkers>just keep 2 kernels around
01:46<PeteCool>2.2 is so stone age
01:47<inman>2.5 doesn't boot on my SMP box.
01:47<Chutt>bonkers, of course, but the time drain is what i'm worried about =)
01:47<inman>i'd be running it for the low-latency if it did.
01:47<PeteCool>no dri, no devfs, no real journaling fs...
01:47<Bonkers>bttv shit a brick earlier today using 2.5 so I'm back to 2.4 right now
01:47<Bonkers>I would start up mythbackend and I'd get 2 SICsomethingor other messages repeating themselves until I killed mythbackend
01:48<PeteCool>moegreen: what do you think of nathan's mytheather mockups ?
01:48<Chutt>moegreen, can you fix those <var> may be used uninitialized warnings?
01:49<moegreen>Chutt: what was it in? I didn't see it go by...
01:49<Chutt>in playback.cpp
01:49<Chutt>msg at 1726, msg2 at 1751, noButton at 1760
01:49<Chutt>just stuff where you're selecting between the two types
01:49* PeteCoolis away: I'm busy
01:50<Chutt>blah, g'nite
01:50<Chutt>it's too late :(
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12:35<Chutt>mythweather needs a radar screen =)
12:36<moegreen>Chutt: i have looked into that, most of the images out there are jpg's and didn't find an easy way to display them
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12:36<Chutt>jpgs should display just like .pngs
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12:38<moegreen>i wasn't sure if there was a licensing issue, or if that was just for GIF
12:40<moegreen>now all i have to do is find a weather source of radar images for the entire world :)
12:40<moegreen>I guess I could just let the user enter a location to download the image from
12:41<foom> is pretty good i think
12:41<moegreen>well it looks like does take the same ACID that uses (I think provides the msnbc weather). I should be able to grab that map
12:44<moegreen>the problem becomes that the image filename isn't predicatable,
12:44<foom>simply "parse" the html for the zipcode results page
12:44<foom>and hope they never change it
12:45<moegreen>i guess I could do that once during setup
12:45<foom>you could search the html output for an image pointing to something with "radar" in the path
12:47<moegreen>yeah ... i suppose i could start a thread to get the map after the weather data is grabbed from msnbc
12:47<Chutt>cool =)
12:48<moegreen>but if I do that i'll only have on thing left on my TODO list for MythWeather - finish the weather types list
12:48<foom>while you're fixing stuff, did you fix that you have to press "i" to get out of the initial setup screen?
12:48<Chutt>could always make it more themeable
12:49<Chutt>but you can't do that until you break out the list code from the playback box so it can be reused =)
12:49<foom>i thought the weather thing was just totally broken since I didn't know how to get out of the initial setup screen, until someone asked that q on the mailing list. :)
12:50<moegreen>foom, did you keep hitting escape?
12:50<foom>I entered all the info and looked for something to do, so pressed return, nothing happened
12:50<foom>figured it was broken, and hit escape
12:51<moegreen>heh, i can add a message to that screen i suppose
12:51<foom>that's silly
12:51<foom>just make return/space exit the screen..
12:53<moegreen>fine ... :)
12:53<moegreen>Chutt: So you want a listbox widget that looks like the playbackbox list, but acts just like a listbox?
12:54<Chutt>doesn't have to act just like it
12:54<Chutt>but, it'd be nice if the view scheduled programs stuff looked similar
12:54<Chutt>and then it could be reused in the music stuff, too
12:55<moegreen>right ... ok, i'll work on that next, or should I do the positioning/xml code?
12:55<Chutt>work on whatever you want
12:55<Chutt>just suggestions =)
12:56<moegreen>ok... :)
12:57<moegreen>foom, that's in CVS
13:03<inman>moegreen: i'm planning on doing some html parsing in the future, to rip metadata and images for programs and music.
13:03<inman>moegreen: just an FYI in case you actually end up doing any work -- i'll use it. :-)
13:04<foom>as far as I can tell the most reliable way to parse html crap on websites is regexps
13:04<foom>not very hard. :)
13:05<inman>i'd rather parse generated content with the qt xml stuff.
13:06<foom>won't work for html..
13:06<inman>though i may elide the non-generated stuff i don't care about with a regexp.
13:06<inman>i thought i saw a way to flag it for not-quite-xml (html)
13:06<foom>oh, maybe there is.
13:07<inman>where the hell are the manuals for qt under gentoo.
13:07<foom>but i'd think it'd still be easier just to stuff it in a regexp matcher
13:08<inman>you may be right.
13:08<inman>i haven't done any legwork on this at all. just got an idea while i was reading up on the xml parsing.
13:09<foom>actual HTML code in use on the web is so nasty I can't imagine that a real xml parser would get anywhere with it, even in some more-relaxed mode
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13:10<inman>i've written a few regexp parsers though, and it's just such an inelegant hack. :-/
13:10<Chutt>nziarek, hey
13:10<foom>forgetting closing quotes on attributes, misnested tags, missing end tags, completely arbitrary structure...yuck.
13:10<Chutt>you have access to your mythtv box?
13:14<nziarek>Chutt: no, at work now, sorry
13:18<inman>foom: know of any good sources for the data? aside from imdb?
13:19<nziarek>inman: might work
13:20<inman>hmmm. thanks.
13:20<inman>how complete is the db?
13:21<nziarek>it always seems pretty complete; but I really don't know what youa re looking for...when I don't use imdb, i use, so i thought I'd pipe in =)
13:22<inman>there isn't a single newline in the output, heh.
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13:51<inman>Chutt: how do you want to implement a UI to manage channel subscriptions?
13:51<inman>damn you're fast.
13:51<inman>adding/removing channels.
13:51<Chutt>big ole listbox/table
13:51<Chutt>checkboxes on each
13:52<inman>yeah, but i mean where.
13:52<Chutt>in setup
13:52<inman>hanging off of the setup screen?
13:52<Bonkers>ole? that stuff's scary ;)
13:52<Chutt>off of the video source screen
13:52<inman>that screen is starting to get crowded. any plans for a hierarchy?
13:52<Chutt>backend setup, not frontend
13:53<Chutt>would be nice to be able to set the per-channel filters and stuff in the same ui as well
13:53<inman>of course.
13:53<inman>i wish the backend setup was inside of the frontend setup.
13:53<Chutt>i don't =)
13:54<inman>could we make it instantiable from the frontend setup menus?
13:54<Chutt>i really don't want it to be
13:54<Chutt>it's not something you commonly edit
13:55<Chutt>it's specific to the _backend_, not the frontend
13:55<inman>yeah, but when you need to do it, why should you have to jump through hoops?
13:55<inman>under normal operation, you don't edit any of it.
13:55<Chutt>err, running a separate program isn't jumping through hoops
13:55<inman>but the channels keep changing on me.
13:55<foom>it is if you have a box without a keyboard
13:55<inman>it's a hoop if your input device is a remote on the frontend.
13:55<Chutt>export the display to a machine with one, then
13:56<foom>that's more difficult than it could be as well since you have to setup X on another computer since the setup isn't a text-based ui
13:56<Chutt>export the display to a machine with X
13:56<Chutt>and a keyboard :p
13:57<Bonkers>anyone think an option to display using sdl would be useful to anyone? that way people with no Xv support can hopefully have a faster display method and you wouldn't even need X to use myth or is that already what the non-Xv stuff uses?
13:58<Chutt>the non-xv stuff uses x
13:58<Chutt>an sdl output method would be rather easy to do, but the rest of the ui uses qt
13:58<inman>Bonkers: qt is still bound to X
13:58<foom>i'd suggest the best UI would be to have an option for "backend setup" that lists all the backends you have, and lets you launch the config program for any of them. How that would be accomplished I'll leave to the experts. :)
13:58<Bonkers>oh, hmm, didn't think of that
13:58<Chutt>of course, that _could_ be ported to qt/e
13:58<Chutt>and that just uses a framebuffer
13:59<Chutt>foom, you need to be on the actual backend to get a list of possible tuner card inputs
13:59<Bonkers>how useful is qt actually being here? it seems like it could be adding more slowness/bloat than it is gaining us, aren't all the widgets fairly simple, simple enough that maybe a few weeks of work could replace them with much faster ones?
13:59<inman>Chutt: those inputs could be stuffed into the database.
14:00<Chutt>inman, why?
14:00<Chutt>they're on the filesystem
14:00<inman>Chutt: to ease setup/configuration.
14:00<foom>no, the backend setup needs to be in communication with the backend host for a bunch of reasons..
14:00<Chutt>bonkers, have you ever written a tree widget?
14:00<foom>but, that could be done by talking to the backend..
14:00<inman>foom: right.
14:01<Chutt>but if you're talking to the backend already, that assumes that the backend has been setup
14:01<Bonkers>Chutt: hmm, didn't think of that one
14:01<Chutt>you'd still need initial setup
14:01<Chutt>why complicate things?
14:01<foom>well, the backend doesn't need much (any?) setup to just start itself and listen for tcp requests I think
14:01<inman>Chutt: for ease of use. most users don't do as many initial setups as tweaks to existing configs.
14:02<Chutt>foom, sure it does
14:02<Chutt>just drop it
14:02<Chutt>you're not going to convince me :p
14:02<inman>what does the backend need to know that it can't learn from a few command-line switches?
14:03<foom>in the case that the backend setup stays separate, then the tv channel setup needs to not be in it.
14:03<Chutt>the tv channel setup belongs in there.
14:03<foom>it belongs with the location setup
14:03<inman>the channels change all the time, plus that setup widget could address many of the broader issues.
14:04<inman>with channels, i mean.
14:04<foom>but, both of those are 'end-user-changeable'
14:04<Chutt>blah blah blah
14:04<Chutt>babble babble babble
14:04<foom>as opposed to the TV tuner card settings which will probably never be changed.
14:04<inman>in addition, the frontends should be able to control the channels on any of the inputs/tuners.
14:04<inman>Chutt: would you refuse a patch?
14:04<Chutt>if it did something i disagreed with?
14:04<Chutt>of course
14:05<foom>i bet it'd be more convincing to see it actually work than talk about it though. :)
14:05<inman>what if it was left up to the user and didn't make any architectural changes?
14:05<inman>and defaulted to Chuttstyle?
14:05<Chutt>you're going to have to make architectural changes
14:06<inman>let's assume that we didn't.
14:06<foom>i think you assume too much. :)
14:06<inman>foom: gotta know what you're shooting at before you choose a weapon.
14:06<Chutt>you can't make that modification without changing how things work
14:07<inman>what about if it only worked after the system was bootstrapped?
14:08<inman>you will refuse any patch that lets the user access the channel-setup from the frontend?
14:09<foom>the simplest/best change IMO would be to leave the basic config in a backend setup program (and it'd be even better if there was an alternate text-ui for it), and put the program/channel info stuff in a config ui on the frontend that talks to the backend. but, that will involve significant changes.
14:10<foom>you don't need the channel info to startup the backend, so that won't cause a problem. but you do need to run the xmltv programs on the backend to get the UI data for that setup screen
14:10<Chutt>you need channel source information to setup the backend
14:10<Chutt>i don't want backend config in the frontend
14:11<inman>and channel-setup is backend config, period?
14:11<Chutt>yes, it is
14:11<Chutt>the frontend doesn't do anything with the channels
14:11<Chutt>except display what the backend tells it about
14:12<inman>and you won't accept a patch that lets the frontend tell the backend to export a setup gui?
14:12<foom>export via X?
14:12<foom>that would be interesting
14:12<foom>interesting in a good way
14:12<Chutt>that might be acceptible
14:12* inmanshrugs.
14:12<Chutt>you'd have to modify quite a bit of code to do that, though
14:13<Chutt>well, it'd be a tad confusing to just have it running a backend setup
14:13<Chutt>need to indicate somewhere _which_ backend is running, etc
14:13<foom>well you have to fix the xmltv prompting the user for info in the console. :)
14:13<Chutt>that too
14:14<inman>foom: refresh my memory, i don't remember that.
14:14<foom>if you go to the program setup and change your cable provider
14:14<foom>xmltv will ask if it's okay to delete channels
14:14<foom>and the UI looks like it's hung
14:15<Chutt>there's a bunch of other cases that do that as well
14:15<foom>so you have to go to the console you started the setup program from and press 'y' a few times
14:15<Chutt>and none of the other grabbers work with the ui at all
14:15<inman>anyway, i'm just trying to solve the normal usage issue.
14:16<foom>Well I'd love to see that solved, not that I have any say. ;)
14:18<foom>i think the automated exporting of the X display sounds like the best chance of working/being accepted by chutt. Which means you'll need to have a listbox of available backends to configure and then ask the one you select to startup a setup program on your local display.
14:18<foom>doesn't sound too hard
14:19<Chutt>you'd need to have shell access as whatever user the backend is running from on the backend machine
14:19<foom>no, you can have the backend run the app
14:20<inman>the methods for connecting to the backend would have to be individually configurable.
14:20<foom>exec it
14:22<foom>just have a backend command that says "run your setup program on display ''", then it just has to run setup -display
14:23<foom>on the frontend you also have to make sure to allow X connections from the backend
14:23<inman>yeah, but my point is that the method won't be as simple as plugging in the hostname.
14:24<inman>eg. you may need to export to an alternate host, display, whatever.
14:24<foom>why would you ever want to do that?
14:24<foom>the whole point is to have it run on the frontend
14:24<foom>if you want to run it somewhere else, run it there yourself
14:24<inman>tunneling? i dunno, i've run into this issue in the past.
14:24<foom>the frontend knows its own display
14:25<foom>ugh - I suppose if you have complicated setups where the backend can't talk directly to it then you might have a problem.
14:25<Bonkers>an exported app seems like it would run incredibly slowly
14:25<inman>foom: we're talking about X.
14:26<foom>oh i suppose that was unclear
14:26<inman>X is not the same as the normal front<->back comms.
14:26<foom>i meant to say, complicated network setups where the backend host cannot connect directly via TCP to the frontend host
14:26<foom>sorry, unclear wording before
14:27<inman>hey, i hope it's as simple as you say. :-)
14:27<Bonkers>if you didnt' have TCP, how would you talk to the backend anyway?
14:27<foom>well I don't know what the fe<->be comms look like right now
14:27<foom>but it might work to have NAT between frontend and backend
14:28<foom>in which case you can connect from frontend to backend
14:28<foom>but not from backend to frontend
14:28<foom>but who would do that?
14:28<inman>i think we had better just concentrate on the simplest case so as to assure patch acceptance. :-P
14:28<nziarek>anyone: is the popup dialog box the same size always, or does it scale...?
14:29<foom>how does the frontend authenticate itself to the backend?
14:29<moegreen>nziarek: it scales depending on what elements you add to it
14:30<moegreen>foom: it doesn't
14:30<foom>anyone on the whole internet can connect to your backend and change channels/whatever?
14:31<moegreen>foom: unless you block that port which you should be doing anyway
14:31<foom>in that case, a backend command to export the setup program is a bad idea until there's authentication.
14:31<nziarek>moegreen: does the background image scale with the popu, tile, or draw once and quit?
14:31<foom>you don't want arbitrary people on the net being able to run an X app on your host
14:32<inman>use one of those rinky-dink cable/dsl routers.
14:32<Bonkers>foom: where's the hospitality in that?
14:32<moegreen>nziarek: it draws it once, no rescaling of it
14:32<inman>they work well even on normal ethernet networks.
14:33<foom>inman: not a problem for me currently - i already have a NAT box, but it's bad policy to allow random people to connect to a port and without any authentication, get an X displaying on their comp, running on yours
14:33<Bonkers>Chutt: ever look at ParaGUI? it's an SDL GUI lib and supposedly it has a listbox implemented
14:34<foom>the answer to that of course to add authentication. :)
14:34<inman>foom: i know... just pointing at a "recommendation".
14:35<Chutt>listbox != tree
14:35<Chutt>and i'm not switching to some halfassed lib without any documentation
14:35<Bonkers>oh crap, I've already lost what I was looking for
14:36<foom>i've seen qt/e running on the sharp zaurus (?) and it was pretty nice
14:37<Bonkers>qt/e looks quite possible altough on a quick search I found someone that said it was rather slow, I'd have to try it for myself and see though
14:37<foom>i don't know how it runs on normal linux fb, but it was running quite nicely on the little tiny handheld running linux.
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15:24<ian2>anyone using 2.5 kernels?
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15:39<Timon>Which FreeType by myth? V1 or v2 or does it matter?
15:45<Chutt>needs 2
15:47<Timon>Thanks Chutt
15:47<Timon>Is that in the docs? (I'm going off the required links page on the site)
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16:21* bigguyis [away -={ Downloading, Reading, and Then EMT Training Class }=- ]
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17:12<nziarek>can someone point me to an article on installing Qt 3.1 on a Mandrake 9 machine?
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17:16<moegreen>nziarek: what version is on there now?
17:16<nziarek>i think 3.0.5
17:16<moegreen>what's wrong with that?
17:16<nziarek>whatever it is, Myth says to seriously consider upgrading to 3.1
17:17<nziarek>plus, my fonts won't smooth and I was thinking maybe that would he lp=)
17:17<moegreen>do you have this set: QT_XFT=true
17:18<nziarek>i am not at my machine right now, but I remember typing something like that before. I'll check when I get home
17:18<moegreen>ok...but I think that needs to be set as an environment variable for QT to use the anti-aliased fonts which you have probably installed
17:19<nziarek>so, before running mythfronend, should I type "export QT_XFT=true"?
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17:21<choenig>moegreen: thanks for commiting that mythweather/hit return stuff :)... I was having the same problem like the guy you talked to, today.
17:22<choenig>unfortunately my time is really short these days, no time for mythtv :(
17:24<moegreen>nziarek: assuming your QT was compiled w/ the anti-aliasing support, which it should have been
17:28<nziarek>moegreen: all i did was urpmi libqt3, not sure if that means it installed with aa support
17:30<moegreen>nziarek: I'm guessing that it was compiled w/ the aa support, i believe that is the default action
17:33<rkulagow>nziarek: rpm-qa|grep qt
17:33<rkulagow>will let you know the versions.
17:34<nziarek>rkulagow - that will let me know if it has aa support?
17:34<rkulagow>nziarek: no, but it will at least let you know what version of Qt you've got.
17:34<rkulagow>nziarek: what distro are you running?
17:34<nziarek>mandrake 9
17:35<rkulagow>i know Mandrake 9.1 comes with Qt 3.1; what happens when you go to Mandrake Control Center->Updates. Is Qt 3.1 on the list?
17:36<nziarek>i'm not at my machine right now, but I will try that first thing when I get back
17:36<nziarek>can you upgrade from Mandrake 9 --> 9.1, or would it need to be a clean install?
17:36<rkulagow>nziarek: you can do the upgrade pretty cleanly.
17:37<rkulagow>(without whacking everything)
17:38<nziarek>rkulagow: and I _just_ redid that computer.
17:40<rkulagow>well, mandrake 9.1 was just officially release a few days ago. i've been running cooker (which is the devel version). ping me when you're at your box later and we can see if we can upgrade you in-place.
17:40<nziarek>sounds good
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18:15<mdz_>wow, sonicblue is bankrupt
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18:38<Chutt>eww, this adds a display for the song bitrate
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18:46<Timon>rkulagow: do you know how to make konsole in mandrake 9.1 revert to the default select behavior? ie when you select it, its automaticly copied to the clipboard buffer?
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19:31<rkulagow>Timon: sorry, no. select, then "Copy" is the only way I can get it to work.
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19:47<ian2>hey can someone tell me where i can find a list of the keys for myth-tv?
19:53<TheAsp>moegreen: no "accidents" so far... enter still doesn't activate either yes/no in the popup though :)
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20:26<nziarek>rkulagow - is there an easy way to upgrade to drake 9.1, or do I have to dl the iso first
20:33<inman>moegreen: the "Last update" line at the bottom of mythweather is half-way off of my screen. 1600x1200.
20:34<inman>nziarek: i had a problem with my fonts not smoothing using xft2. i installed xft1 for some other purpose; i think that's when the problem went away, but i'm not sure.
20:35<inman>nziarek: if you `ldd /some/` you'll see which xft lib it's bound to, if any.
20:43<rkulagow>nziarek: you don't need to download the iso first, although that helps. if you've followed the HOWTO, one of the steps tell you how to go to
20:44<rkulagow>if you've done that, and added either the 9.1 main and contrib using the urpmi.addmedia command, then you should be able to do a # urpmi -v --auto-select and away it goes.
20:44<rkulagow>(probably be easier to dl the ISOs though, since if you've got more than a trivial amount of software it's practically going to re-download everything anyways.
20:45<nziarek>rkulagow: the ISOs are taking forever (1 day left :)
20:46<rkulagow>well, it 9.1 just came out, so everyone wants a copy. :)
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21:39<Ndiin>Anyone know how I'd take the first 8 chars from a string in php?
21:45<Ndiin>nm, substr()
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22:15<moegreen>Chutt: is the channel icon being resized in both directions? It looks squeezed in horizontally (my resolution is 320x480)
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22:29<nziarek>rkulagow: I keep getting an "installation failed" error at the end, telling me that some files were missing. i then run "urpmi.update main contrib..." and try it again, but it continues. just go with the isos?
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23:11<Chutt>moegreen, ah, looks like it
23:14<Chutt>it was getting resized twice
23:15<moegreen>Chutt: heh, I've worked around it for now, by doubling a the other side :)
23:15<Chutt>i'll have a fix checked in soon
23:16<Chutt>there, it's in cvs
23:16<moegreen>here's another question, someone had posted a osd.xml start for the blueosd, so i'm hacking around with it - is there a reason that you have to have "time" in the "program_info" container? I'll send you what I have via email and maybe you'll see what i mean
23:17<Chutt>current time
23:17<moegreen>right ...
23:17<Chutt>where else should it be?
23:19<moegreen>well, you have a channel container, maybe a time container? it's on it's way to your cwru email
23:20<moegreen>it's not a real big issue because you can always just define it to be anywhere on the screen, I guess I was expecting to be able to make my own containers :)
23:20<Chutt>well, containers really only show up when requested by the user
23:21<moegreen>ah ... ok, that makes sense then
23:22<moegreen>heh, of course what I sent you still has the channelicon's size being doubled on one side
23:23<Chutt>heh, looks nice
23:23<Chutt>cept for the huge channel icon =)
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23:24<moegreen>i'm trying to see what all we'll be able to do with the new code, and maybe it will spark someone else to come up with some other new ideas
23:24<Chutt>i'm not done with edit mode yet
23:25<moegreen>heh, i haven't touched that yet
23:25<Chutt>you can add multiple images to any container
23:25<Chutt>static text strings
23:25<Chutt>an image for the background of the dialog, for instance
23:25<nziarek>well, whatever I did to update it gave me the smoothed fonts
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23:26<moegreen>is the alignment stuff just for static text strings? I was complaining when I did an <align> in the <textarea>
23:26<Chutt>eventually an image to show selection state in the dialog, instead of those drawn rectangles
23:26<Chutt>it's <textarea name="blah" align="center">
23:26<Chutt>or right
23:26-!-Edgan [] has quit ["Client exiting"]
23:26<Chutt>everything can be aligned
23:26<moegreen>oh ... well that would be why - I saw it in the code, but didn't really see it's context
23:26-!-nziarek [] has joined #MythTV
23:27<Chutt>the font color is just greyscale, though
23:27<mdz>Chutt: is the frontend<->backend communication compatible between 0.8 and current CVS?
23:27<Chutt>mdz, i believe so
23:27<Chutt>it's not
23:27<Chutt>current cvs should be less buggier than 0.8, though
23:27<Chutt>so i think it should be safe to upgrade
23:28<mdz>the box is being used at the moment
23:28<mdz>but I want to test a couple of frontend tweaks in my working directory
23:28<Ndiin>Chutt: Just posted a complete mythweb patch for the weekslot stuff.
23:28<Chutt>ndiin, excellent, thanks
23:28<Chutt>mdz, oh, if you're not running live tv, it should be fine
23:28<mdz>ah, ok
23:28<TheAsp>mmmm, slots
23:28<Chutt>the query to get the current program info has changed slightly is all
23:29<TheAsp>can qt handle svg's?
23:29<mdz>I don't make use of multiple frontends for actual viewing, but it sure makes development more convenient
23:30<Chutt>theasp, i believe there's a lib to allow it to
23:30<Chutt>i don't know if it's built in, though i kind of doubt it
23:30<TheAsp>would be neat to use them in the ui
23:31<mdz>I think the svg support in Qt is incomplete and not really used
23:31<Chutt>there's a qsvgdevice.h
23:32<TheAsp>i need bed
23:32<Chutt>it's apparently able to read and write static svg files
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23:34<Chutt>mdz, the directory searching stuff?
23:35<mdz>Chutt: yeah...that and the toolbutton stuff, but I think that's only used in mythmusic right now
23:35<moegreen>hmmm...the smaller fonts seem to look better without the outline on them
23:35<mdz>unfortunately, running mythmusic on my devel box would have the unfortunate side effect of deleting all the metadata because my music is mounted in a different location here
23:35<Chutt>moegreen, as long as they're not being displayed on video, not having an outline's cool
23:36<Chutt>moegreen, oh, and you can add drop shadows to text if you want instead of an outline =)
23:36<Chutt>in the font definition
23:36<Chutt>i think
23:36<moegreen>yeah, that worked
23:37<Chutt>either of you checked out the CC stuff?
23:37<Chutt>it works pretty well, i think
23:38<mdz>I haven't
23:38<moegreen>where does it get set to be enabled?
23:39<mdz>I've never tried CC with any application with this card
23:39<Chutt>in setup, first section needs to be set to NTSC closed captioning
23:39<Chutt>then the vbi device needs to be right in the capture card settings
23:39<moegreen>backend setup?
23:40<Chutt>hardly uses any cpu so it's pretty safe to turn on
23:42<Chutt>then just hit 'T' during playback of newly recorded stuff
23:42<Chutt>or live-tv
23:42<Chutt>to turn it on
23:42<mdz>might be a good idea to add context help for the VBI setting
23:42<mdz>I don't even know what it stands for, if anything ;-)
23:42<Chutt>be even better to add context help to everything =)
23:42<Chutt>vertical blank interrupt
23:43<mdz>especially since things that don't have context help get the context help for the previously focused item :-)
23:43<mdz>is that a myth bug or an old qt bug?
23:43<Chutt>qt bug, apparently
23:43<Chutt>doesn't exist in 3.1
23:45<moegreen>do some cards not work w/ vbi?
23:45<mdz>what do you think about adding 3/9 as pageup/pagedown in some other places, in addition to the epg?
23:45<mdz>like viewscheduled
23:45<Chutt>moegreen, i dunno
23:45<mdz>what other sorts of data are in there besides CC?
23:46<Chutt>the rating, sometimes the channel name, program name, etc
23:46<Chutt>webtv links =)
23:46<moegreen>i guess i will commit this new blueosd stuff, if people don't like it they can use the patch on the website :)
23:47<Chutt>patch on your website?
23:47<PeteCool>moegreen: patch on the website? where?
23:48<PeteCool>moegreen: which website could also be of some help ;)
23:48<moegreen>whatever someone sent to the list, it looks a lot like the original blueosd
23:48<moegreen>it's just an osd.xml file
23:48<moegreen>sorry for the confusion :)
23:48<Ndiin>the mailman seems slow today
23:49<Ndiin>He must have hit the bar on his way..
23:49<Chutt>moegreen, i'm going to be breaking editmode shortly
23:49<bigguy>Gentoo is gonna start using rpm now
23:49<Chutt>they're early.
23:50<bigguy>Chutt: ?
23:50<moegreen>ok, it looks like mailman has axed that file from the archives ... i'll put it on my website
23:50<Ndiin>bigguy: for April fools, they're early.
23:51<Ndiin>bigguy: Gentoo is most definitly not going to use rpms
23:51<bigguy>Chutt: I've heard it's no joke
23:51<Chutt>oh, whatever
23:51<Chutt>it's a joke
23:51<Ndiin>...they're laughing about it in the gentoo dev channel.
23:51<nziarek>moegreen: how hard would it be / do you have any plans to allow the selction bar to overlap the show border ala
23:53<PeteCool>nziarek: you need to have the fonts drawn over the selection png... isn't that how it works?
23:53<nziarek>yeah...i just want the selection bar to overlap that white border; currently the selection bar fits inside the frame
23:54<mdz>I remember I worked a bit on fixing the spinboxes and such not to allow people to type into them
23:54<mdz>and it was inconvenient enough that I gave up
23:54<mdz>but I really should fix that somehow
23:54<Chutt>mdz, figure out how to do it?
23:54<mdz>I think the problem was that the embedded lineedit or whatever was private
23:54-!-hfb [] has joined #mythtv
23:54<mdz>so I would have had to copy the whole class and modify it
23:55<mdz>which is just silly
23:55<Chutt>can you walk the widget list?
23:55<Chutt>get the children, see if it's the lineedit, then disable it that way?
23:55<mdz>maybe, dunno about that
23:55<mdz>you can get a const pointer to it through the existing API
23:56<mdz>so that might let you compare it in a robust way
23:56<mdz>make sure it's the right widget
23:57<moegreen>nziarek: I'll give it a shot and see what it does, I now it was at one point getting messed up by the shadowing, let me give it a shot though
23:57<mdz>how do you walk through the children?
23:57<nziarek>moegreen: not a big deal, just having a hard time coming up with a graphic I like as the selection box
23:58<moegreen>nziarek: I think that looks pretty nice :)
23:58<Ndiin>Chutt: That patch finally made it through mailman, heh.
23:58<Chutt>ndiin, there's quite a few people on the list nowadays
23:58<Chutt>it'd help if you gzipped things :p
23:59<Ndiin>Ah, sorry, I'll do that in the future ;)
23:59<moegreen>nziarek: that won't be a problem at all, once i finish up writing the formatting code you will be able to define where the selection bar starts. I've manually editing the x coordinates of it and it's working fine.