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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-05-13

00:00<hachi>do I want to start that up as twm &; mythfrontend, or the other way around?
00:00<Chutt>depends on how you want it to work if you exit mythfrontend
00:01<bline>i use .xinitrc, you put mythfrontend& then exec windowmangers
00:01<hachi>well, right now mythfrontend is losing focus at times, so I'm not to concerned about that yet
00:01<Chutt>of course it's losing focus, you don't have anything running to _give_ focus
00:04<hachi>yeah, but I appear to require the mouse to return the focus
00:05<Captain_Murdoch>making the CommDetect class is the first step in starting to try to get some form of scene change detection added. That should help cases where blank frame detection doesn't work.
00:06<hachi>even better, I have less than a clue about customizing twm, and my manpage appers to be pointing at blackbox for some reason
00:07<Chutt>there a bunch of example window manager setups in the docs
00:07<nyquiljer>hachi: just run fvwm2 with the configuration file provided, it should work then
00:29<hachi>any idea how to make it not ask me to place windows, you don't need to answer if you're gonna go look in docs, I'm already headed there now
00:30<nyquiljer>hachi: what window manager you talkinga bout?
00:30<nyquiljer>that config file should have it all setup that way
00:30<hachi>it's working perfectly, except it asks me to place my video window
00:31<nyquiljer>the mythtv window?
00:31<hachi>no, the video overlay window
00:32<nyquiljer>that would be the mythtv window
00:34<hachi>I wasn't aware, I asumed the mythtv window would be the first window started up
00:35<nyquiljer>if you look in the fvwm2rc file
00:35<nyquiljer>you should see lines that have 'myth' in them. i forget the exact syntax cuz i dont have it right in front of me
00:36<nyquiljer>but basically you set different options for windows of different names.
00:37<nyquiljer>make sure 'mythtv' is in there. i do remember having to add something to that list myself
00:37<hachi>I have no such lines, where are you getting this from?
00:37<nyquiljer>in the .fvwm2rc file thats in the configfiles dir?
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00:38<hachi>I'm on debian, does this help?
00:39<hachi>am I supposed to be using the standard source for this file?
00:39<nyquiljer>mythtv PROVIDES the file
00:40<nyquiljer>its in the configfiles dir inside the mythtv source
00:40<nyquiljer>just copy that to your home dir
00:40<hachi>ahh, mythtv is giving me this, that's why I'm not following you
00:40<nyquiljer>(or the home dir of the user thats running mythtv)
00:41<nyquiljer>you'll have to rename it to just .fvwm2rc (or maybe even just .fvwmrc, i cant remember which)
00:42<nyquiljer>but then you should be good to go
00:51<hachi>I swear I'm gonna hurt myself with this
00:52<nyquiljer>so what now? you copied the file, and then what?
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00:53<hachi>same result, I'm gonna try and get blackbox happy with it
00:53<nyquiljer>what did you name the file?
00:54<hachi>I copied it into the system master
00:54<hachi>screw it, blackbox is working the best so far, I'm very happy
00:55<nyquiljer>well, whatever works. but really, windowmanagers should be the least of your problems
00:57<hachi>I asume there was something buried in the debian config tree doing it
00:58<nyquiljer>quite possibly
01:06<hachi>it's too bad aureal went under, I wish I had decent drivers for that card
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01:36<hachi>I broke my nvidia video card now, guess I'll go buy some ati thing tommorow
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04:57<kiwi_uk>Anyone: What is the best distro to use for Myth? If not the best, what is your favourite?
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05:55<Viddy>Chutt uses debian
05:55<Viddy>thats a pretty good recomendation
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08:59<Chutt>people that tell me what my software should be doing piss me off
08:59<rkulagow_>your software should be mowing my grass. =)
09:00<Chutt>i should be mowing my grass
09:00<Chutt>but it's too wet still
09:00<rkulagow_>your software should be fighting for my right to party.
09:01<rkulagow_>(ok, that's enough. must get coffee)
09:02<rkulagow_>is it the "info" thread that
09:02<rkulagow_>'s got you riled up?
09:02<Chutt>apparently it's too difficult for people to hit a button to show the osd
09:03<rkulagow_>ah. well, they've got the source, so it's not like they can't fork the tree or post a patch to the mailing list. i think the difference is they want _you_ to write the code.
09:03<Chutt>that's how it came across to me
09:03<Chutt>it'd be a one line mod, i think
09:04<Chutt>and wasting a config option on that would be, well, silly
09:05<rkulagow_>i didn't even realize something until captain_murdoch mentioned in yesterday in passing: compile on the main box, then NFS mount the directory and "make install" on the smaller boxes. my big box can compile mythtv and mythtv-debug ( changes) faster than either one of my frontends could do it on their own.
09:06<Chutt>yeah, that'll work as long as the chips are similar enough, you don't compile with excessive options, etc
09:06<rkulagow_>they're all intel-type boxes.
09:08<rkulagow_>i've been thinking that instead of all these people trying to put together a distribution, what they should do is get a reference hardware design that they like, then just create a mindi rescue iso and that's that. at least, that's what i would do.
09:08<Chutt>something easily customizeable for specific hardware should be relatively easy to do
09:10<Chutt>but like
09:10<Chutt>i really had this remote frontend going in the time it took to install debian and compile cvs
09:10<Chutt>wasn't exactly difficult =)
09:10<rkulagow_>right; use the disc to install, and the disc to re-install if necessary. put the video on a seperate partition so you can whack the main OS/whatever if you need to. it's how Cisco distributes their IPTV stuff. (except they've got a hidden partition)
09:11<rkulagow_>ah, but The World is Not Chutt. =)
09:11<rkulagow_>"Changing Stuff" - nice commit message. =)
09:12<Chutt>bline commented on that last night
09:12<Chutt>i dunno, i doubt that fixed anything
09:40<rkulagow_>huh. when mythtv is started from an autologin .xinitrc/blackbox in the user directory, fonts are small/crappy. when mythtv is started from a terminal session after logging in through KDM/blackbox, fonts are nice and big and good looking.
09:40<rkulagow_>curious... got to dig around and see what's the difference...
09:40<Chutt>might be QTDIR not getting set
09:41<Chutt>or the right ~/.qt/ directory differences?
09:41<Chutt>like, the enableXft stuff might be missing
09:43<rkulagow_>i'll look. thanks for the pointers.
09:43<rkulagow_>nziarek, are you here?
09:48<Chutt>haven't seen him in a while :(
09:49<rkulagow_>yeah; i'm going to have to figure a way to create pdf docs from the sgml source that I've got. may have to bite the bullet and switch to docbook from linuxdoc. the .pdf that linuxdoc produces is garbage.
09:51<hachi>use POD? (I really can't say how good it is in comparison, I don't know docbok, etc.)
09:58<rkulagow_>wonder if there's going to be another flood of "my pvr-250" doesn't work based on the message from joseph caputo WRT office max.
09:59<rkulagow_>whoops, shift the quote over a few words...
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10:01<rkulagow_>hrmm. exported QTDIR and PATH (with /usr/lib/qt3). fonts are still small when started from xinitrc. still poking...
10:01<hachi>rkulagow_: my pvr-250! (verb omitted intentionaly)
10:04<Chutt>the ivtv driver's gotten rather less stable recently
10:07<hachi>for tv out, do you people tend to use a card with one, or do you buy one of those... I think they are called "scan line converters" or something?
10:07<Chutt>thor, yo
10:09<hachi>I am quite sure I just asked a stupid question, excuse me while I remove that lobe of my brain
10:09<Chutt>people do both
10:09<Chutt>well, not at the same time, of course
10:10<Chutt>some people like the quality of the tv out on their cards
10:10<Chutt>some don't, so they buy a converter thingie
10:10<Chutt>really depends on what video card you have
10:11<hachi>I have only one TV out card, a TNT classic, which of course doesn't work
10:15<poptix>hachi: go buy a cheap GF2 MX
10:15<poptix>they support twinview, so you can use the monitor as one desktop, and the TV as another
10:15<poptix>they work great for TV out
10:16<hachi>that's good to hear, I may just do that
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10:21<poptix>geforce4 will do the same thing
10:21<poptix>geforce3 will not do twinview
10:21<hachi>I may get an ATI as well, asuming the radeon drivers under X have Xv support
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10:22<hachi>the NVidia drivers are causing my captures to hiccup when it takes over the system for about 4 seconds during startup
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10:34<hachi>does matrox develop drivers with the xfree86 team or something? they appear to have the best support of all on linux
10:34<Chutt>recent matrox cards aren't well supported at all
10:36<hachi>wait, so XV is only supported out of the box on older matrox cards then?
10:37<hachi>for nvidia I have to use their special drivers that aren't playing nice, and the ati drivers aparently don't support Xv as far as I'm reading
10:37<Chutt>i've never had a problem with nvidia's drivers.
10:37<hachi>mine cause a 4-5 second block of the system bus, so my hauppauge card hiccups
10:38<Chutt>so don't close down X all the time
10:41<hachi>I don't, it just feels like I'm skirting around a real problem by doing this, oh well
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10:57<kiwi_uk>Viddy: Okay then, thanks. Chutt: Is Debian easy to setup/install? and do you know if it has drivers for the graphics on an EPIA M
10:58<Chutt>no one has drivers for graphics on the epia m
10:58<Chutt>it's in xfree cvs only.
10:58<kiwi_uk>will the installer run okay/
10:58<Chutt>what installer?
11:00<kiwi_uk>well, whatever you use to install it
11:00<kiwi_uk>i never used debian before
11:01<Chutt>not if you're expecting something to hold your hand through the install, no
11:01<kiwi_uk>Well I dont really need the hand holding, I can manage with instructions :)
11:02<Chutt>just use whatever distro you feel comfortable with
11:03<kiwi_uk>Well I would you see, but Redhat 9's installer wont work, and I cant make it work
11:03<kiwi_uk>Even the text mode one doesnt work.
11:03<kiwi_uk>Debian will be my last assualt, then Ill just use a monitor instead of the TV :) I dont really want to bring it out of the cabinet though.
11:06<kiwi_uk>Actually, I think Ill skip Debian and just use a monitor
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11:15<hachi>I'm liking mythtv on debian, mdz did a wonderful job on the packages once I found the glitch in them
11:31<mdz>hachi: glitch?
11:32<hachi>mdz, something in the installer passed an argument '--passwordbox' to something, which wasn't supported on my install of debian, hence why everything was dying
11:32<mdz>hachi: ahh, that's a bug in whiptail in unstable
11:32<mdz>hachi: nothing to do with my packages
11:33<hachi>ahh, well, I only meant it as a glitch
11:33<mdz>and the 98729432 bugs merged with it :-)
11:33<mdz>looks like it's fixed now
11:34<hachi>in any case, I went and fixed passwords.dat or whatever myself and it worked perfectly after that
11:34<hachi>it only took 2 days for me to figure out that said file even existed, never saw that one before
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11:37<mdz>I actually ran into that bug myself installing bugzilla the other day
11:37<mdz>I didn't make the connection that you were on current unstable though
11:38<mdz>the symptoms with bugzilla were worse; it just looped asking the password question over and over
11:40<hachi>uploaded yesterday
11:41<hachi>and I was using a mirror, so it won't be on their for a few more hours yet
11:42<hachi>so I wan't crazy, it really never did ask me, that's such a comforting thought
11:42<Chutt>moegreen, hey, ya here?
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12:00<mdz>Chutt: how many people on mythtv-dev now?
12:01<Chutt>too many?
12:01<mdz>hachi: I use the stock nv driver in xfree86 and it works fine
12:01<Chutt>824 on -users
12:02<Chutt>and 299 on -commits
12:04<hachi>mdz, must require a newer card, I'll try a geforce2 later today, it's currently running on a TNT2
12:04<moegreen>Chutt: what's up?
12:04<Chutt>was wonderin how that http code was coming
12:04<hachi>mdz, thanks for that hint though
12:05<Chutt>just curious, that's all =)
12:05<moegreen>Chutt: I got it to get the html pages, though I haven't tried a jpg or png file yet. I haven't worked on it much though
12:06<Chutt>you're still in school, right? finals? =)
12:07<moegreen>I just finished up finals last week, it's been a fun last 23.5 credits - heh, just waiting on one last grade to come in before I can confirm I graduate :)
12:08<Chutt>heh, that's never fun
12:14<mdz>hachi: I'd expect it would work _better_ with older didn't work for you?
12:15<mdz>hachi: it lists "RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro, RIVA TNT2 Ultra, Vanta, Riva TNT2 M64, Aladdin TNT2" all as supported
12:15<hachi>no Xv extensions on the version I'm runnning for TNT2 Ultra
12:16<hachi>or I never found how to enable them, also possible
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12:25<hachi>it must not be there for TNT2s, cause Xv is active on my GF4 in my notebook
12:25<mdz>heh, Mr. GPG replied to me off-list
12:26<Chutt>paste it paste it
12:28<Chutt>craig longman sent me a pissy email off list
12:28<bigguy>"Sorry I'm at work now so no gpg" WTF cares?
12:28<mdz>bigguy: that was annoying enough, tagged onto otherwise on-topic messages
12:29<mdz>but a whole message on the subject of his GPG signatures was too much
12:29<mdz>his reply didn't answer my question at all
12:29<mdz>he said essentially "I sent it to the list to let people know that nobody could impersonate me posting from work now"
12:30<Chutt>yes, because the list has massive problems with people impersonating other people
12:31<bigguy>well doesn't the listserv catch that stuff anyway?
12:31<bigguy>and wtf cares on a mailing list anyway?
12:31<bigguy>if it was some trusted list that very few people use it would be different
12:32<mdz>signing every email message that you send is ridiculous anyway
12:32<mdz>all it does is make that private key worthless, because you're obviously decrypting it all the time
12:32* bigguyreplies to the list as if he was Isaac ;)
12:33<bigguy>I have never used pgp or gpg. I've never had a need for it
12:34<mdz>I guess working at a telco all day rots your brain
12:34<mdz>I use gpg every day. but I don't sign every email I send, nor do I announce to mailing lists my intention to sign future messages
12:36* bigguylags again
12:36<bigguy>afk again
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13:35<sGeek>has anyone been able to create vcd's with the movies created by myth?
13:36<Chutt>try the mythmkmovie stuff?
13:36<sGeek>are there docs on this mythmkmovie?
13:37<Chutt>dunno, it's not part of mythtv
13:37<Chutt>distributed on the mailing list
13:37<sGeek>k, thanks for the info
13:37<Chutt>i imagine there's docs included in it
13:49<bmorrison>Chutt: when do you expect to see .9 released?
13:49<Chutt>want to get thor's mythmusic ui update in
13:52<Chutt>whenever that happens =)
13:52<bmorrison>everything working in cvs right now?
13:52<Chutt>for the most part, yeah
13:52<Chutt>couple people are having some odd problems
13:52<Chutt>but everything's working great for me
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14:17<bmorrison>Chutt: cool.. i have some problem with manual record.. i wanted to get the new code and see if it works better
14:17<Chutt>i don't think manual record has changed any
14:17<Chutt>but apparently it'd crash if the transcoding stuff was semi-active
14:26<bmorrison>Chutt: i get a seg fault after a manual record has finished and i try to watch it
14:26<Chutt>well, if it still happens with current cvs
14:26<Chutt>follow the instructions in the docs for generating a backtrace
14:26<Chutt>and send it to the mailing list
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16:00<hachi>mdz: what about the TV out on an Nvidia card running the xfree drivers?
16:01<hachi>er, does it work?
16:01<mdz>hachi: that's what I'm using on my myth box
16:01<hachi>I didn't know you had it pumping to a TV for sure though, wanted to ask
16:01<mdz>with nvtv
16:02<hachi>oooh, I wasn't aware of that package, more to read
16:02<Chutt>mdz, for enabling disabled programs
16:02<Chutt>think the best thing to do would be to just remove it from oldrecorded?
16:03<mdz>yeah, that's what I had planned
16:03<mdz>I think I might have even written it
16:03<mdz>it would be in my pre-cvs-broke working dir though, lemme look
16:03<mdz>either I imagined it or I lost it
16:04<mdz>I've also had several power outages lately
16:04<mdz>oh, I remember
16:04<mdz>I added the bit to scheduledrecording to forget the history
16:04<mdz>but then didn't get around to making viewscheduled call it
16:22-!-WizFacto1 is now known as WizFactor
16:23<Chutt>need to decide how to handle > 6 items on a menu
16:23<Chutt>like, make a 'more' button
16:23<Chutt>or scroll the menu around
16:23<Chutt>or how
16:24<Chutt>though, hmm
16:24<Chutt>scrolling around might be a tad slowish
16:24<mdz>where do we need >6 items?
16:24<Chutt>for the main menu
16:24<Chutt>i want to move setup to there
16:24<mdz>tv, music, game, gallery, setup...
16:24<hachi>not that I have any right to suggest this, but shouldn't that be decided by the theme?
16:24<Chutt>tv, music, pictures, games, weather, videos, setup
16:24<mdz>ah, video
16:25<Chutt>hachi, no, it needs to be automatic
16:25<Chutt>the theme has to specify enough room for 6 itmes
16:29<WizFactor>Ok, I'm a little lost on saving a playlist in mythmusic. I've been fighting with this for a while, and cant' find any documentation on it...
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16:30<Chutt>you create a playlist
16:30<Chutt>by just selecting stuff
16:30<Chutt>then you go down to the current playlist item
16:30<Chutt>hit 'i' or space
16:30<Chutt>and it pops up a menu
16:31<Chutt>you can then enter a name (keyboard, or a cellphone like text entry with the number keys) and hit 'save as new playlist'
16:31<Chutt>or whatever it's called
16:31<WizFactor>"Save Back to Playlist Tree" ?
16:32<WizFactor>or "Copy to New Playlist"?
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16:32<Chutt>copy to new playlist
16:33<WizFactor>Ok... it's working now. For some reason before, that was creating an empty playlist.
16:39<hachi>thanks for this thing called mythtv, I'm hoping it will become an addiction (not to watch, but to play with instead)
16:40<WizFactor>One more question. Do you think a 333 is fast enough to use as a frontend only?
16:43<Chutt>couldn't tell ya
16:45<hachi>hey, with the new 2.5 kernel design you'll be able to support multiple frontends on the same box, or do you support that already?
16:45<WizFactor>Ok...thanks anyways. And thanks a ton for myth ;) After only a week, I couldn't live without it.
16:46<Chutt>why would that require 2.5?
16:47<hachi>I guess it wouldn't, unless you wanted to control everything from keyboards
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18:58<gsfgf>i caidentaly defined two video cards. How do i delete one?
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19:01<LeandroD>reissue setup and start again from zero
19:02<rkulagow__>hrmm. fucked up setting caused a SEGFAULT. added a backend, but made its card the first one. however, i'm using DHCP, and the IP address changed on me and I didn't know it, so in setup i had the old address.
19:03<rkulagow__>started mythbackend, saw the slave get added, but when i hit "watch TV", the master segfaulted and so did the slave. here's the master:
19:03<rkulagow__>2003-05-13 17:57:12 Slave backend: bedroom has left the building
19:03<rkulagow__>Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
19:03<rkulagow__>[Switching to Thread 131081 (LWP 10855)]
19:03<rkulagow__>0x407071b4 in QSocketDevice::socket() const ()
19:03<rkulagow__> from /usr/lib/qt3/lib/
19:03<rkulagow__>Current language: auto; currently c
19:03<rkulagow__>(gdb) thread apply all bt full
19:03<rkulagow__>Thread 32 (Thread 491551 (LWP 19562)):
19:03<rkulagow__>#0 0x40b1c346 in nanosleep () from /lib/i686/
19:03<rkulagow__>No symbol table info available.
19:03<rkulagow__>#1 0x00000000 in ?? ()
19:03<rkulagow__>No symbol table info available.
19:03<rkulagow__>Thread 10 (Thread 131081 (LWP 10855)):
19:03<rkulagow__>#0 0x407071b4 in QSocketDevice::socket() const ()
19:03<rkulagow__> from /usr/lib/qt3/lib/
19:03<rkulagow__>No symbol table info available.
19:03<rkulagow__>#1 0x4070718e in QSocketDevice::isValid() const ()
19:03<rkulagow__> from /usr/lib/qt3/lib/
19:03<rkulagow__>No symbol table info available.
19:03<rkulagow__>Cannot access memory at address 0x1c
19:04<rkulagow__>the slave ended up saying, "unknown encoder"
19:04<rkulagow__>then segfaulted.
19:04<rkulagow__>not sure this is something worth checking for in the code. (ie, the actual IP being different than the user entered one)
19:04<gsfgf>mind if i post a long(ish error)
19:05<gsfgf>gsfgf@gentoo mythtv $ mythfilldatabase
19:05<gsfgf>DB Error (loading channel sources):
19:05<gsfgf>Query was:
19:05<gsfgf>SELECT sourceid,name,xmltvgrabber,userid FROM videosource ORDER BY sourceid;
19:05<gsfgf>Driver error was [2/-1]:
19:05<gsfgf>QMYSQL3: Unable to execute query
19:05<gsfgf>Database error was:
19:05<gsfgf>Unknown column 'userid' in 'field list'
19:05<gsfgf>gsfgf@gentoo mythtv $
19:05<rkulagow__>did you run mysql < database/cvs.sql ?
19:06<rkulagow__>(if this is CVS)
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19:10<gsfgf>oops, forgot the -f. it's going now
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20:11<bline>is it worth picking up a pvr-250?
20:11<Chutt>not yet
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21:08<gsfgf>when i run mythfilldatabase, it keeps going infinatly. it says XMLTV is double checking or something. should i just Ctrl+C or ehat?
21:09<Chutt>i hight doubt that
21:09<Chutt>you're not paying attention to the dates.
21:10<mykilx>so is mythtv going to be on the screen savers tomarrow?
21:10<Chutt>news to me
21:11<Chutt>looks like they're doing freevo :p
21:12<mykilx>I'm pretty sure it's tomarrow, Patric Norton is going to show "A linux software that is similar to tivo"
21:12<Chutt>yeah, i like how people assume freevo's actually a pvr and stuff
21:12<mykilx>inferior i assume lol
21:12<Chutt>oh well
21:12<mykilx>never even heard of it
21:13<Captain_Murdoch>similar ~ sounds-the-same
21:13<Chutt>it gets more attention than mythtv because of the name
21:13<mykilx>makes since
21:13<mykilx>yeah one of those lol
21:16<Chutt>fixing bugs in patches is fun.
21:17<Captain_Murdoch>have an initial scene change detection function working using histograms. seems pretty accurate on a test show I'm using. now need to work in how to take advantage of it to help flag commercials.
21:17<Chutt>did you ever check stuff in?
21:17<Captain_Murdoch>not the code to write blank frames to the db while recording. was going to do that tonight. this won't hold that up.
21:18<Captain_Murdoch>looks like my 6-7 shows that recorded today did OK so I'm happy and ready to commit.
21:18<Captain_Murdoch>this is running the new class-ified commercial_skip.cpp as well.
21:19<mykilx>how long have you guys been coding ? (all together, not just mythtv)
21:20<Chutt>a very, very long time
21:20<Chutt>so who's going to email the screensavers guys and ask em how they overlooked mythtv? :p
21:21<Captain_Murdoch>since 87 or so. C64 basic. :)
21:21<mykilx>I'm just starting out. I can print a line, and name variables and such in python lol.
21:21<mykilx>call'm up!!
21:21<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: just make a comment about that on the -users list and see how quickly they get inundated with emails.
21:21<mykilx>that sux, i was getting excited about seeing mythtv on the show
21:21<Chutt>naw, i wouldn't do that
21:22<mykilx>well why not lol
21:22<Chutt>captain_murdoch, i'm going to be merging in the dvb junk
21:23<Chutt>so, if you can commit sooner rather than later =)
21:23<Chutt>i don't want to mess up your stuff
21:23<Captain_Murdoch>I'm syncing now so I can put my patch in and commit. I don't think we'll trample on each other though.
21:23<Chutt>i'd rather have the conflicts, not make you slog through them
21:23<Chutt>just bein safe
21:24<Chutt>with all the changes i got him to make, this ended up being fairly painless
21:25<Chutt>no real big impact on existing code, other than the channel class
21:26<Captain_Murdoch>good, that opens Myth up to more programming sklls from non-U.S. people. :)
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21:32<Captain_Murdoch>changes committed.
21:33<gsfgf>where is documentation on the controls?
21:35<gsfgf>i can't change the channel and it won't exit
21:36<Chutt>completely frozen, or still displaying video?
21:37<gsfgf>as in doesn't respond to Esc
21:37<gsfgf>finally ity goes away, but the sound keeps going
21:38<Chutt>read the bits of the howto on sound.
21:38<gsfgf>i am. how do i mute the line-in?
21:38<Chutt>with a mixer program
21:39<gsfgf>how do i exit mythfrontend
21:39<Chutt>also covered in the docs :p
21:39<gsfgf>musta missed it
21:42<gsfgf>i don't see that. where're the docs. adn n
21:42<gsfgf>i muted the line in and i can't get any sound
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21:50<nyquiljer>gsfgf: is the igain turned up?
21:50<gsfgf>i dunno
21:50<gsfgf>i'll check
21:52<gsfgf>wjhere is that set?
21:56<gsfgf>btw, my chanels won't change at all in anything. when i try to rmmod tuner bttv (which usually works) it says device busy. what's that mean?
21:59<Chutt>amazing how many errors leaving off one character can generate
22:00<nyquiljer>gsfgf: you cant unload the kernel module while something is using the tuner
22:01<gsfgf>i got it. i forgot i had lirc moaded
22:01<nyquiljer>gsfgf: igain is in the audio mixer. you'll want that turned up somewhat. is your audio patch cable plugged into line-in?
22:02<gsfgf>what mixes should i use?
22:02<nyquiljer>whatever one you used toe mute line-in
22:03<gsfgf>inwas using aumix and it doesn't have an option for igain
22:12<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: it's worse when leaving off one char still lets it compile. :)
22:13<Captain_Murdoch>sometimes just as hard to track down
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22:21<Tack>I'm curious if anyone has available a short clip of video captured by a pvr-250/350?
22:22<Chutt>actually, yeah
22:23<Tack>Oh, cool. :)
22:23<Chutt>it's _short_
22:23<Chutt>just made to illustrate the audio whine
22:24<Tack>The driver gives you different compression options, right? What compression was used for that clip?
22:24<Chutt>compression options aren't really available yet
22:25* Tacknods.
22:25<Chutt>not a very good look at it, though, i suppose
22:25<Tack>Hopefully not, because my bttv card is better than that. :)
22:25<Tack>But I don't know what the source is, either.
22:26<Chutt>crappy cable
22:26<Tack>It's probably the case that I'll never be happy until I can capture the DVB mpeg2 stream right off my satellite dish. :)
22:26<Tack>But that's not likely to happen.
22:26<Tack>Not likely any time soon, at least.
22:26<Chutt>they're actually pretty close
22:26<Tack>Not for my dish.
22:26<Chutt>(the pvr-250 and my 878)
22:27<Chutt>aside from the ghosting with the pvr-250
22:27<Chutt>and the audio whine
22:27<Chutt>both of which are, i believe, driver issues
22:28<Tack>I'd be pretty happy if I had to look real hard to see the difference between output direct frmo my satellite receiver and output from captured video off my computer to my tv. But that's a pretty tall order. :)
22:29<Chutt>allright, analog works
22:29<Chutt>ben broke stuff
22:30<Tack>A friend of mine has a PVR from Expressvu. My goal is to be able to shock and amaze him with what I'm able to do with myth, but have to improve quality first before I dare show him. :)
22:30<Chutt>can't really beat not recompressing things
22:31<Tack>Yeah. I spent a couple hours today reading about how I could get the DVB signal right from my satellite dish, but as soon as you have to deal with encryption issues it becomes mindblowingly complicated.
22:34<Tack>Or if my satellite receiver had some sort of digital video output that I could deal with, that'd be the next best thing. Either one is not likely to happen, so I'll just have to find the right combination of hardware and settings to make analog work acceptably well. That probably means a faster CPU. :)
22:37<Chutt>might as well check this all in
22:37<Tack>I've been looking at freevo, and it really shines with the music and movies support, but the tv support is quite lacking. In fact, it unmutes line-in and uses mplayer to tv, and I'm not sure how that can possibly work so that it's not out-of-sync.
22:37<Chutt>you like the music stuff better?
22:37<Chutt>all they do is display what's in a directory
22:38<Chutt>and system("mplayer") on things
22:38<Tack>Yes, but they also show the album cover. The interface is very clean. But really I'm more interested in the movies, which is trhe reason I looked into myth in the first place.
22:38<Chutt>oh no, the album cover
22:39<Chutt>you can't create a playlist, other than what's in a directory, you can't add new music, etc
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22:39<Chutt>mythmusic does so much more :p
22:39<Tack>You can add new music.
22:39<Tack>It does, you're right.
22:39<Tack>But mythvideo doesn't.
22:40<Chutt>mythvideo's a buncha crap
22:40<Chutt>i'm waiting for someone to take it over
22:40<Tack>And mythvideo and mythmusic aren't themed (or at least, they use Qt), and that looks hideously ugly IMO. :)
22:40<Chutt>mythvideo is, now
22:40<Chutt>mythmusic's coming soon
22:40<Tack>Ah, cool.
22:41<Tack>freevo video has some nice features like letting you set dvd album covers, and also through an xml file you can configure custom mplayer options for specific files, which is good because I have several movies that have the wrong aspect ratio.
22:41<Tack>So there are a number of ideas mythvideo can steal. :)
22:41<Chutt>like i said, i really wish someone would take over mythvideo
22:41<Chutt>and do stuff with it
22:41<gsfgf>how do i exit mythfrontend? and where are the docs that should tell me that?
22:41<Chutt>i've got too much other stuff to do
22:42<Chutt>and, really, i'm not all that interested in it
22:42<Chutt>i don't have any videos that i've not recorded without mythtv
22:42<nyquiljer>gsfgf: the docs say alt-F4 i think, but i think thats windowmanager specific
22:42<Chutt>and a hardware dvd player is soooo much better than software playback in windows
22:43<Chutt>gsfgf, there's also a config option to allow you to use escape, or alt-escape or whatnot
22:43<Chutt>err, linux
22:43<Chutt>not windows =)
22:43<Tack>Well, I have a lot DVD rips. Most of my DVD collection is ripped. I like the convenience of a "dvd movie jukebox."
22:44<gsfgf>Chutt: ah found that
22:44<Tack>Plus I have a lot of DVDs that I've ripped that I don't own, like ones I've rented or borrowed. Ssshh. :)
22:44<Chutt>i wouldn't want my dvds to be any lower quality than they are now
22:45<nyquiljer>Chutt: i hear that
22:45<nyquiljer>i mainly download movies i cant find for rent on dvd, since divx looks loads better than vhs
22:45<Tack>My rips are all very high quality. 1.5-2G average per movie. I can see the extra compression in some rare cases on my tv, but it's acceptable to me.
22:46<gsfgf>i'm getting that sound problem where i need to mute the line-in, but if i do that, then i don't get any sound. (and yes the sound from a non-muted line-in is out of sync
22:46<Tack>nyquiljer: The problem with downloading divx avis is that most people have no idea how to do correct rips. :)
22:47<Chutt>i'm not getting list mail
22:47<Chutt>oh well
22:47<nyquiljer>Tack: alot of them have changed formats several times. crazy people who want to go from divx3 to divx5, or from videocd to divx
22:48<Tack>Acck. I can't bare to even think about that. :)
22:48<Tack>Even better.
22:48<nyquiljer>Tack: oh, then theres files that are named completely wrong. always love that
22:48<Timon>I'm thinkin about going out and getting some.
22:49<Timon>Yeah, like the one I recently got that was named x2 but was really orange county :-)
22:49<Tack>nyquiljer: I've only seen a few divx that were downloaded from, well, wherever. Most people don't like to pass around 1.5-2G avis, and anything less than that just isn't acceptable quality to me.
22:50<Chutt>wonder how many emails i'll get about people not doing the db update now
22:50<Tack>But the ones I hvae seen are invariably awful. Too low bitrate, or improperly encoded (i.e. not vbr, or not cbr multi-pass), or compressed audio, or wrong aspect ratio (or aspect not preserved, but only libavcodec does that), etc.
22:51<Tack>And it should be a law to crop out wasteful black borders in the video. :)
22:51<nyquiljer>Tack: ive got the ps2 media player thingy and my roommate downloads TONS of movies off kazaa and watches em on the ps2, so i see lots of varying qualities. course the ps2 software can only handle 1400kbps and no higher than 512xwhatever
22:52<nyquiljer>yeh, black bars anger me. i love mencoders cropdetect for that ;)
22:52<Tack>Yeah, I guess that beats renting VHS. But I'd still want DVD too, if that were my only other option. :)
22:52<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: you should have made the word "request" be a link to
22:52<Tack>nyquiljer: Yeah. _Or_ you get the peoiple that are well-meaning and crop the black borders, but then forget to fix the aspect ratio.
22:53<gsfgf>anyone know why i can only get sound by umoting the line-in (which is bad)
22:54<nyquiljer>gsfgf: you SURE you don't have some sort of line in gain control?
22:54<Tack>gsfgf: Is line-in set to be the recording source?
22:54<gsfgf>nyquiljer: not in aumix and i just installed opmixer and still no control
22:54<gsfgf>Tack: where do i set that?
22:55<Tack>Well, in aumix, there will be a little red "R" beside Line if it is.
22:55<Tack>You can use amixer to set it from the cmd line. Say, amixer sset Line,0 80%,80% mute cap
22:55<Chutt>i dunno, maybe i'm way off base there
22:55<gsfgf>Tack: nope. ther's a little red dot, but that's it.
22:55<Chutt>that's just how it seems to me, at least
22:56<Tack>Chutt: What's how it seems to you?
22:56<Chutt>the 'feature request' thread on the -users list
22:57<gsfgf>Tack: i don't have alsa
22:57<nyquiljer>gsfgf: i think you hit space after moving the cursor to line-in in aumix
22:58<Tack>gsfgf: Oh. Well I'm not sure how to set the recording source with aumix, but if you have gnome-volume-control, just click the checkbox under Line-in that says "Record" :)
22:58<gsfgf>nyquiljer: it's not working for me
22:58<nyquiljer>gsfgf: maybe hit 'r'?
22:58<Tack>Space works for me, with aumix.
22:59<gsfgf>wha'ts suppose dto happen
23:00<Tack>There should appear an "R" on the left row of pluses beside "Line."
23:00<nyquiljer>gsfgf: a little 'r' shows up next to line-in
23:00<nyquiljer>gsfgf: and hopefully you get some sound :)
23:00<gsfgf>nyquiljer don't see it
23:00<Chutt>would people rather have the menus pop up little arrows and let you scroll up and down in the items if there's more than 6 entries
23:00<Chutt>or rather have a 'more' button be created
23:00<Chutt>and go to a second page
23:00<Tack>I'd prefer scrolling.
23:01<Captain_Murdoch>scrolling would be nice in quite a few themes.
23:01<gsfgf>oh, i see it. and i do have it set to record (this version it's a green dot)
23:01<Chutt>that's what i was a-feared of
23:01<Tack>Yeah. Scrolling is always harder. :)
23:02<Chutt>i think i'd prefer that too, it's just a tad on the more difficult side
23:02<nyquiljer>Chutt: what if instead of scrolling, it just sorta 'flips' to the next page?
23:02<Chutt>that might be easier
23:02<Chutt>and still show up/down arrows
23:02<Chutt>good idea =)
23:03<Chutt>yeah, that'd be a lot easier
23:03<Tack>Yeah that'd be okay, but use left/right arrows instead of up/down arrows, since up/down implies scrolling more.
23:03<nyquiljer>yeh, i was gonna say that too
23:03<nyquiljer>left/right vs up/down
23:03<Timon>For the record, I just read the thread and I don't think your response was out of line, or that your off base
23:03<Chutt>but, most themes do things vertically
23:04<Timon>I think up/down would be more intuative
23:04<Chutt>like, take sasquatch or iulius
23:04<Chutt>single line of options
23:04<nyquiljer>yeh, i gues thats true
23:04<nyquiljer>youd want to be able to just move the cursor down wnd have it go to the next page
23:04<Captain_Murdoch>up/down, then pageup/pagedown could be used.
23:04<Chutt>left/right would probably do it, too
23:04<Chutt>since that also scrolls through things
23:04<Chutt>just in a different order than up/down
23:06<Tack>Well, up/down would probably be okay as long as the UI elements didn't look like scroll arrows.
23:06<Tack>i.e. if there are more options in a menu, instead of having a down arrow on the side, have it right beneath the last option on the screen.
23:06<Chutt>i just need to be able to show more than 6 entries
23:06<Chutt>but 6 is a really nice number to show on screen at once
23:06<Tack>No problem. Use a small font. :)
23:07<Tack>7 is about as many as you'd want on a screen at once. 6 is safer, yeah.
23:07<Tack>7 is what the chunking rule says, anyway.
23:07<Chutt>6 is easier to lay out, though
23:07<Chutt>ah well
23:07<Tack>Yeah, 6 looks cleaner IMO too.
23:08<Chutt>suppose i should do that sometime
23:08<Chutt>so i can finish up the settings code stuff
23:08<nyquiljer>i think if the up/down indicator was the same width as the buttons and right below/above them, it would make it really obvious
23:09<Chutt>i'll have to play with stuff and see what people think
23:09<Chutt>thor_, hey, did you commit a button class to CVS ever?
23:16<gsfgf>i have line in set to record in aumix, but i'm still not getting sound with line in muted.
23:28<Captain_Murdoch>cool, the initial version of scene change detection code matched up almost exactly with the commercials detected by the blank frame code. it even indicates the last 28 or so seconds of the video are a commercial and they are but weren't picked up by the blank frame code since it's not close enough to 30 seconds.
23:29<Captain_Murdoch>not consuming too much cpu either from what I can see so far.
23:30<Chutt>what triggers a scene change?
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23:31<Captain_Murdoch>doing a straight histogram on the Y (from yuv) values right now and then comparing the area underneath the histogram on both current and previous frame to get area covered by both. if that area is over a certain % of the total pixels then it assumes scene change.
23:33<Captain_Murdoch>then I computed number of scene changes for each second and threw out all seconds with <= 2 scene changes. the resulting list of "seconds" indicates potential commercials since they have high rates of scene changes
23:35<Captain_Murdoch>needs tweaking and then I need to work on comparing the two commercial lists (blank frame & scene change) to come up with the final list.
23:36<Captain_Murdoch>I'm debating getting rid of the option in setup for "Commercial Detection Method". I realized yesterday that I don't even honor that setting right now. if you have auto flagging turned on, it always tries blank frame detection since that's the only method so far.
23:37<Chutt>sounds good to me =)
23:38<Captain_Murdoch>also need to figure out sometime how I can analyze the audio also, to search for silence at scene changes which would also indicate a potential commercial start/end.
23:38<Chutt>audio's easy
23:39<Chutt>there's less of it, for one =)
23:39<Captain_Murdoch>I just mean I'll have to work with the audio buffer myself since the current code only decodes the video since I'm passing 1 to GetFrame()
23:39<Chutt>that may cause problems
23:39<Captain_Murdoch>so I'll have to decode audio but then make sure the buffer doesn't fill up.
23:39<Captain_Murdoch>that's why I haven't tackled it yet. :)
23:40<Chutt>might be able to override the two functions that copy the audio from the decoder into the internal buffers
23:40<FryGuy>are you the person that did the commercial detection stuff Captain_Murdoch?
23:40<Chutt>and copy it into _your_ buffers, and do stuff that way
23:40<Captain_Murdoch>FryGuy: yes
23:40<FryGuy>nice job
23:40<FryGuy>sometimes it jumps into a commercial though
23:41<FryGuy>not quite to the end of the commercial break
23:41<FryGuy>but much better than I could ever do :)
23:41<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: that's an idea. I'll have to look at it more indepth when I get the scene change stuff working.
23:41<Captain_Murdoch>FryGuy: current cvs or v0.8?
23:41<FryGuy>um like a week cvs
23:41<Captain_Murdoch>new recordings or older ones?
23:42<FryGuy>i haven't figured out how to patch the cvs, so I just got it right after cvs went down and came back up
23:42<Tack>I hacked lirc so that button repeating works like it does on a keyboard. That is, you have a delay after the first press before it starts to repeat. Would anyone be interested in a patch if I posted it?
23:42<bline>Ive seen that as well
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23:42<Captain_Murdoch>ok. haven't changed much since then. is it always on certain shows/channels or just random?
23:42<FryGuy>well, yesterday. it had been finished recording for like a half hour before i started watching it
23:42<FryGuy>just random
23:43<FryGuy>mainly on the night talk shows
23:43<Captain_Murdoch>FryGuy: does the osd theme you're using show frame numbers?
23:43<Captain_Murdoch>in edit mode?.
23:44<FryGuy>i haven't fiddled around that much yet. I'm using the default OSD
23:44<FryGuy>and haven't even gone into edit mode
23:44<Chutt>tack, i'm sure people would be interested
23:44<FryGuy>I've still got the recording though
23:44<FryGuy>it should be repeatable, right?
23:44<Tack>Chutt: Okay.
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>ok, that doesn't. I'm wondering if the commercial start/end frames marked in the DB are actually on blank frames or out in the middle of nowhere.
23:45<FryGuy>and actually it's kind of odd sometimes too.
23:45<FryGuy>it will skip into the commercial, then in the middle of the commercial jump into the start of the program
23:45<Captain_Murdoch>FryGuy: yeah, the skip list is in the DB so it always should skip to the same exact frame for a given recording.
23:46<Captain_Murdoch>do you have auto skipping turned on? it could be that it detected a commercial at the start of the break and one at the end but skipped one in the middle for some reason.
23:47<FryGuy>yes it's automatic
23:47<FryGuy>not that I'm complaining though
23:47<FryGuy>it's better than watching all of them
23:49<FryGuy>one of the projects I want to do over the summer when I'm at my dad's apartment is make something that will listen to directv's audio channels and try to use an OCR(?) to grab the names of the songs that are playing and rip them into mp3's while it's not doing anything else
23:50<FryGuy>nobody probably cares though
23:53<Captain_Murdoch>I rarely have to watch commercials, it works great on most of the stuff I record. I don't have auto-skip turned on though, just me and my 'Z' and 'Q' keys (used Next/Prev buttons on remote) :)
23:53<FryGuy>well i haven't made a transceiver yet
23:53<FryGuy>and my keyboard is far from my bed :)
23:55<Chutt>damn people using my cvs server again
23:55<Chutt>why why? =)
23:55<Chutt>every time i commit, instant bandwidth usage
23:56<FryGuy>cvs -flood chutt
23:56<Chutt>ah well
23:57<Captain_Murdoch>those 200+ people on the -commit list see your 'ijr' commits and gotta go grab the updates.. :)