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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-07-02

00:11<bbeattie>Are there any known problems with provider selection? Someone else running mandrake 9 (debian woody/stable here) has had the exact problem, but no information if he was able to get things working.
00:12<Chutt>you need to be using xmltv 0.5.14
00:13<bbeattie>Chutt: odd, It worked last week, but I don't think I've updated anything involving xmltv, or mythtv...
00:14<Chutt>let me repeat myself
00:14<Chutt>you need to be using xmltv 0.5.14
00:14<bbeattie>updating now...
00:17<Conaz_>The new single setup button rocks
00:22<Conaz_>Hehee, it takes alot of processor power to record that blue screen :)
00:23<Conaz_>Hey, with the new native ALSA support, is that an absolute requirement now?
00:24<Conaz_>I've never installed it on my backend since it has always worked great without
00:24<extremis>so, anyone using dvi out + dvi in on a tv?
00:24<Conaz_>I had to install it on my frontend machine though to fix some sound issues
00:25<bbeattie>Chutt: may I ask why an update to .14 is needed? did the pages that xmltv access change? Or what caused a working mythtvfilldatabase to no longer work?
00:25<Conaz_>bbeattie: yup, zap2it changed format
00:26<Conaz_>thus a change to xmltv, and right down to good ole mythtv
00:26<bbeattie>and the new format changes in xmltv .11+, won't break mythtv 0.9.1?
00:27<bbeattie>or is a cvs version of mythtv now needed to correctly fix the problem?
00:27<Conaz_>bbeattie: I updated to CVS as of late this afternoon.
00:28<Conaz_>Chutt also release .10 of mythtv today
00:28<bbeattie>must have been after my lunch, I check the mainpage daily. :-/
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00:30<bbeattie>Conaz_: any idea if I end up removing all my mythtv debian files, and installing from source/tarballs, will this effect or break anything, if I leave the mysql database as is, but re-run mythtv-setup from sratch?
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00:31<bbeattie>bah, wrong button.. if you answered, I missed it :-/
00:31<Conaz_>bbeattie: not sure about that, I always install mythtv from cvs or tarball
00:31<Conaz_>I think I'm going to grab .10 and try that, I'm having issues with my one from cvs today
00:31<bbeattie>Conaz_: alright. I've just had very bad luck with the database for mysql.. But it's always been due to debian install files.
00:32<Conaz_>be away for a bit while I compile that
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00:32<Scrye>debian is evil
00:37<Conaz_>there simply is no fitting response ;)
00:38<Conaz_>apparently I turned off my xbox 1 too many times, corrupted the filesystem way beyond belief :)
00:38<Scrye>xbox linux or xbox game which trashed the fat
00:38<Conaz_>xbox linux
00:38<Scrye>what fs
00:39<Conaz_>I don't recall what ed's debian installs with
00:39<Scrye>reiserfs if i remember right
00:39<Conaz_>I simply re-installed, although I'm not entirely sure if it over-wrote the existing files on the hd
00:39<Scrye>i dont like reiserfs
00:39<Conaz_>I'm guessing it probably did
00:40<Scrye>im an ext3 type fellow
00:40<Scrye>resierfs is good with a ton of files
00:40<Conaz_>i have been using ext3 as well
00:40<Scrye>not very good for mythtvlike setups
00:41<Conaz_>of course it really is my fault, was trying to get it to boot from the linux bios to the default bios today for the kids, and it wasn't cooperating, so I was just hammering on it
00:41<Conaz_>let it boot part way and popped the power button
00:42<Conaz_>This particular xbox has the stupid matrix chip in it
00:42<Scrye>not familiar with that
00:42<Conaz_>It is a solderless one
00:42<Conaz_>And it doesn't work all that well
00:43<Scrye>damn microsoft
00:43<Conaz_>This particular unit is a refurb, and has many features between a 1.0 unit and a 1.1 unit
00:43<extremis>so, does anyone in here know mucha bout nvidia + hdcp?
00:44<Conaz_>I could see they purposely sucked out some solder from one hole to attempt to make the matrix chip not make good contact
00:45<extremis>the radeon seems to be hdcp compliant
00:45<extremis>but I don't see anything saying the nvidia chips are
00:45<Conaz_>now to see if my logitech wireless keyboard with work with the xbox
00:46<Conaz_>picked one up at office max (wireless keyboard and mouse) for $39
00:46<Scrye>i like my wires
00:46<Scrye>doesn't need batteries
00:46<Scrye>or winding
00:46<extremis>Conaz_: what resolution are you displaying at on your xbox?
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00:47<Conaz_>let me check
00:47<Conaz_>I haven't actually done any messign around with any X settings
00:47<Conaz_>been futzing around trying to get the IR device to receive my TiVo remote codes :)
00:47<extremis>I would think that with 1080i at your disposal you would up your resolution
00:50<Conaz_>As I suspected, it just runs default 640x480
00:50<extremis>do you have an hdtv?
00:50<Conaz_>I had it running mythtv 480x480 mpeg4 files just fine
00:51<Conaz_>I currently do not
00:51<extremis>ah, I'm trying to work out my best solution for hdtv display from my mythtv box
00:51<Conaz_>Ah, yes, the fun never ends :)
00:52<extremis>do I spend more money and get an ati so I can do dvi
00:52<extremis>(I can do dvi now, but my tv ignores this geforce4)
00:52<Scrye>you need to donate some of that money to me
00:52<extremis>or do I just use my xbox
00:52<Scrye>i use a 13" tv from 1985
00:52<Scrye>its barely color
00:52* Conaz_laughs at Scrye
00:52<extremis>why would you waste your time on mythtv then
00:53<Scrye>i can watch tv shows fine with it
00:53<Scrye>and recordings
00:53<Conaz_>I'm running a xbox frontend on my 25" tv in my office
00:53<Scrye>ive got a 30" tv in the living room with the digital box
00:53<Conaz_>up until today that is :)
00:53<Scrye>but Christina would castorate me if i touched it
00:54<Conaz_>I'm probably going to have a hard time prying the TiVo out of my wife's dead hands as well
00:54<Scrye>we dont have tivo here in canada eh
00:54<Conaz_>But at least we won't be in conflict anymore, she can have all the 20 some odd hours we can record on that thing
00:55<Scrye>I can only get about 6-7 hours on my 20 gig drive
00:55<Conaz_>I should probably go speak to my wife, been in the dungeon here a little too long today... I'm turning into a gnome :)
00:56<Scrye>basic tv card
00:56<Conaz_>in mpeg4 I'm recording about 1gig per hour of show
00:56<Scrye>i need to upgrade mythtv to current though
00:56<Conaz_>of course since my upgrade I'm not recording anything but blue screen :)
00:56<Scrye>fix xmltv
00:56<Conaz_>upgrade to cvs today
00:56<Scrye>xmltv needs upgrading
00:56<Conaz_>I'm compiling .10 now though, and already have the new xmltv
00:57<Conaz_>that isn't my issue :)
00:57<Conaz_>must have been some other oddity
00:57<Scrye>worth a shot
00:57<Scrye>I had that problem today
00:57<Scrye>if XML was so damned portable, why is it breaking all the damned time
00:57<Conaz_>I always wipe the database when I upgrade too, so it forces me to go through the entire setup process again
00:58<Conaz_>Well, the xml part of xmltv is the end result, not the input part :)
00:58<Conaz_>They are taking garbage in, and turning it into xml formatted out
00:58<Conaz_>yay, compile done, guess the wife will have to wait
00:58<Conaz_>back in a bit
01:02<Conaz_>ahh, time to wait for a full pull of mythfilldatabase, guess I have time to talk to the wife after all
01:03<Scrye>re introduce yourself that is
01:08<Conaz_>yup, she was sleeping, sent her off to bed
01:09<Scrye>my puppy is sleeping on my stomach
01:09<Scrye>my trusty laptop at my side
01:09<Conaz_>I shouldn't have to wait for filldatabase to finish before I run myth right?
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01:10<Conaz_>It has grabbed the first 5 days of data already
01:11<Scrye>no idea
01:11<Scrye>i would assume it would be safe if you dont try to access the data
01:12<Conaz_>I would think so
01:13<Conaz_>lots of setup questions to answer
01:18<Conaz_>yay, .10 was the answer, I must have had something whacky in my cvs compiled version
01:18<Conaz_>Now I can schedule all my stuff again and head off to bed, everyone have a good night
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07:39<vektor>Chutt: on video4linux-list, michael hunold is saying we should stop streaming when _changing_channels_.
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10:14<Chutt>vektor, might as well not allow multiple opens, then
10:15<vektor>Chutt: I fucking agree.
10:15<vektor>well, i always thought that was stupid anyway.
10:17<Chutt>seriously, though
10:17<Chutt>you can't allow multiple opens
10:17<Chutt>if the driver can't deal with people changing things
10:17<Chutt>how's one app supposed to magically know that it's supposed to stop capturing when another app changed the channel?
10:18<vektor>I know.
10:18<vektor>I just posted about it.
10:18<vektor>Are you on video4linux-list ?
10:18<vektor>you'll see it then.
10:24<Chutt>just got it
10:25<vektor>i think i can change my code so that i halt capture and restart on norm change
10:25<vektor>and i think that is reasonable
10:25<vektor>but channel (and even input) i think is unreasonable.
10:25<Chutt>input/channel change is completely unreasonable
10:25<vektor>with input, i don't think i'll have a choice though
10:25<vektor>since fucking v4l2 lets you support different norms on different inputs
10:25<vektor>which i think is a FUCKING MISTAKE.
10:26<extremis>09:15 <vektor> Chutt: I fucking agree.
10:26<extremis>09:25 <vektor> since fucking v4l2 lets you support different norms on different inputs
10:26<extremis>09:26 <vektor> which i think is a FUCKING MISTAKE.
10:26<extremis>you curse alot
10:26<vektor>sorry :)
10:26<vektor>i'll lay off it :)
10:26<vektor>i'm just using it for emphasis anyway :)
10:26<extremis>oh, well then fuck it
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10:27<Chutt>vektor, you didn't use 'magically' in your mail, there
10:27<Chutt>i like to use it to point out utter absurdities
10:28<figgy>are there any tv cards that allow watching/capturing of multiple channels at the same time?
10:29<vektor>figgy: in the API, they'd need to export themselves as multiple cards.
10:29<vektor>and i think that's what they do.
10:30<Chutt>it's generally cheaper to just buy a second card
10:30<vektor>well, i don't think any tuners out there can tune to multiple channels
10:31<figgy>i dont see why it wouldnt be possible though..
10:31<vektor>figgy: um, your radio can't tune to multiple channels, can it?
10:31<GreyFoxx>There are such things, but mostly they are used in security based systems to watch multiple cameras
10:32<figgy>why would you need to listen to two radio stations at once?
10:32<vektor>GreyFoxx: but those aren't tuners
10:32<figgy>its possible, theres just no need
10:32<GreyFoxx>vektor the one I've seen is
10:32<vektor>GreyFoxx: odd :)
10:32<figgy>what about picture in picture on a regular tv
10:32<figgy>its only one tuner
10:32<GreyFoxx>I saw the card when we had the box opened up. It had 4 tuners on it :) big ass card and got hot as hell :)
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10:33<GreyFoxx>figgy: have you opened up the box to make sure it's only 1 ?:)
10:33<GreyFoxx>It could be internall splitting the line into 2 tuners
10:33<figgy>heh... theres only one input
10:33<Chutt>figgy, it's 2 tuners.
10:33<figgy>well, in that case...
10:33<figgy>can the tivo record one channel and display another at the same time?
10:34<Conaz>figgy: no
10:34<Conaz>figgy: only the DirectTV TiVo
10:35<vektor>figgy: TVs that do picture-in-picture have two tuners usually
10:35<Conaz>figgy: from what I understand. I only have a standard TiVo and you can only have one capture going on (either live or recording)
10:35<vektor>but for a while most PIP features didn't let you watch two separate channels
10:35<vektor>it's the more expensive TVs that can do two channels at once
10:36<Conaz>Yes, don't quite a few require the use of say a VCR to tune the other channel?
10:37<figgy>would it be possible, in software, to have it tune back and forth quickly between two channel frequencies, to emulate two tuners, or would the refresh rate be too slow?
10:37<vektor>figgy: the tuner usually takes a long time to lock on to the next station
10:37<vektor>like here it can take like a few frames worth at least before i get a frame from the next station
10:38<figgy>gah, looks like another card it is then
10:39<vektor>why not anyway, they're so cheap
10:43<figgy>yeah i know, it'd just be more convenient if you could do it with one card
10:44<vektor>not from an application point of view
10:44<vektor>since we'd need to write code to handle these special cards
10:44<vektor>and the api would have to be updated
10:44<vektor>and we'd have to additionally support multiple cards
10:44<vektor>since people would do that too
10:45<vektor>actually, nah, that's not true, since hopefully these special cards would export themselves as multiple devices
10:45<vektor>nevermind :)
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10:50<GreyFoxx>The one I saw showed up as multiple devices
10:51<GreyFoxx>But I doubt they all do :)
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11:04<rkulagow___>hey, all.
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11:35<extremis>GreyFoxx: what device is that?
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11:36<Chutt>damn computer
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11:37<jkolb>Chutt: It seems that issuing a QUERY_GENPIXMAP when the pixmap already exists may kill the backend.
11:37<jkolb>At least, something I'm doing is killing the backend.
11:37<Chutt>where's it dying?
11:37<Chutt>i've never sent multiple genpixmaps once it exists
11:37<jkolb>Haven't run it through gdb.
11:38<jkolb>I was just sending one because I figured it wouldn't hurt.
11:38<Chutt>but.. =)
11:40<Chutt>rkulagow, i'm assuming you'd like the docs synced?
11:41<rkulagow___>yes please.
11:42<Chutt>i'm going to have to get you all set up with an account so you can do that without having to wait on me =)
11:44<thor>rkulagow, don't know if you saw the commit, but mmusic handles CDEXTRA nos
11:44<Scrye>holy crap this city is going NUTS
11:48<Scrye>im in vancouver
11:48<Scrye>2010 olympic games got awarded to vancouver
11:49<rkulagow___>thor: yes, i saw it. thanks.
11:51<Chutt>rkulagow, hmm.. is there any way to get the subsections to show up in the main index?
11:51<Chutt>like 'Pre-compiled packages' under the Software section in pre-requisites
11:51<rkulagow___>chutt: yes. i can tell it how many levels in to build the index
11:52<Chutt>might make it a little easier to find that bit
11:52<vektor>Chutt: do you know if it's true that the M9000 doesn't support SSE ?
11:52<Chutt>it does
11:52<Chutt>just horribly slow
11:52<Chutt>i think
11:52<rkulagow___>"presuming facts not in evidence, your honor. people don't read."
11:52<Chutt>the m9000 doesn't do some other mmx stuff, though
11:53<Chutt>so you have to compile as a pentium, not pentium pro
11:54<Chutt>noticed freevo has a tvtime plugin now
11:54<vektor>yeah :)
11:54* vektoraiding the competition
11:54<vektor>i've never even used freevo
11:54<vektor>but it's cool, i did some features for them
11:54<vektor>krister is a cool guy.
11:55<Chutt>too bad he stepped down as maintainer
11:55<vektor>it took none of my time and they seem to like it.
11:55<vektor>he did ?
11:55<vektor>you're kidding
11:55<Chutt>while ago
11:55<vektor>a guy i kinda know works on it too. his name is rob shortt
11:55<vektor>he's pretty cool
11:55<vektor>but krister was fun
11:56<vektor>ah well
11:56<Chutt>jared verdi's reply to me on the mailing list was funny
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12:04<jkolb>Chutt: TO test the png generation, can I just delete the old png? The filename isn't stored anywhere, right?
12:04<jkolb>Err, the status that the file exists or something.
12:04<Chutt>yeah, you can just delete it
12:04<Chutt>it's not stored anywhere
12:05<jkolb>Testing this over a remote X connection blows.
12:07<thor>Snow-Man, how go your sockets?
12:07<Chutt>he hasn't worked on it
12:09<Chutt>jkolb, i cannot get the backend to die by sending it multiple generate pixmap requests
12:09<Chutt>so if you can get a backtrace of that..
12:11<jkolb>I'll run it in gdb in just a moment.
12:11<thor>Chutt, the core receiver for this socket stuff has to be up at core mythfrontend main, as it needs to be able to snuff "windows" out of existence and force others to popup. Does that sound right to you?
12:11<Snow-Man>Sorry, just havn't found time for it. :(
12:11<thor>Snow-Man, I may get to something similar over the next few days
12:11<Snow-Man>I know, I suck, I'll try and work on it soon.
12:11<Snow-Man>thor: Alright.
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12:12<thor>I'm trying to build a thin "remote" client that can do anything, was that your original intention ?
12:12<Snow-Man>eh, kinda, yea.
12:13<thor>via a simple socket-based command language
12:13<Snow-Man>I was thinking of a cli one though.
12:13<thor>stop music
12:13<thor>start tv
12:13<Snow-Man>Yeah, something like that.
12:13<thor>should be able to telnet into it if you know what you're doing
12:13<Snow-Man>Not something like 'mouse moved x,y' 'mouse click x,y' or like that. :)
12:13<Snow-Man>thor; yeah. :)
12:14* radsaqtries to mud in the irc window
12:14<Snow-Man>When you were talking about that touchscreen I thought it was more like the mouse stuff or something. :)
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12:14<thor>that was a diversion, put part of the same thing (touchscreen remote that would send socket commands to control any myth in the house)
12:15<jkolb>Hm. Does the backend return OK before the preview pixmap has been generated?
12:15<TheAsp>Chutt: What would you like to see in my autodel thing before accepting it?
12:15<TheAsp>chutt: aside from having it run in a thread and the gui all working
12:15<TheAsp>and it not being broken :P
12:17<Chutt>that's 'bout it
12:17<Chutt>jkolb, no, it shouldnt' return that until after it's saved to disk
12:18<Snow-Man>thor: Actually, I was kind of thinking of something simpler than what you're describing.
12:18<TheAsp>should i bother messing with the file locking stuff i mentioned? It's not working out for me and i have no idea why
12:18<jkolb>Hm. Because I sent the same request that the frontend did, it returned OK, then when I ANN FileTransfer again, it still returned 0 size.
12:18<TheAsp>p.s. i'd love to be able to post to the list :P~
12:18<Chutt>is it still in progress?
12:18<Snow-Man>thor: Like, it'd be more of a remote keyboard since it'd be easy enough to generate keypress events and throw them into the event queue.
12:18<Chutt>(to jkolb)
12:19<Chutt>if it can't generate it, it'll still return ok, i think =)
12:19<Snow-Man>thor: If you can get things working with what you're describing that'd work though.
12:19<jkolb>mythbackend has a lot of threads running right now. I think they're due to the requests for all my missing pixmaps.
12:19<Snow-Man>thor: I expect you'd have to have more hooks and it'd be more effort tho.
12:20<thor>Snow-Man, a bit more work, but fairly awesome to run around turning everything on and off with a little 802.11b PDA
12:21<Snow-Man>thor: Well, sure. :)
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12:21<jkolb>Yikes. mythbackend has 50 threads running.
12:22<Chutt>in gdb?
12:22<jkolb>Starting over in gdb.
12:22<jkolb>No, it was running outside.
12:22<Chutt>gdb doesn't clean up after threads
12:23<Chutt>so, you found a bug :p
12:24<jkolb>Crap. I get lots of (no debugging symbols found) when I run mythbackend in gdb.
12:25<jkolb>Eight of them, to be exact.
12:25<jkolb>Oh, wait. I didn't build myth debug. This isn't going to help at all.
12:25* jkolbsighs
12:25<Chutt>no =)
12:31<jkolb>Things build much faster when you're not optimizing.
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13:06<ca1vin>is there a way in myth to tell it not to record shows that have already been recorded?
13:06<rkulagow___>anyone else seeing dupes come through the mailing list? i just got 3 copies of a commit by thor, and three of a "almost fell out of my chair" on -dev
13:07<jkolb>I don't see any dupes.
13:09<extremis>to my amazement radioshack had the remaining parts for my homebrew
13:10<extremis>they even had some NPN's that I coudlnt find at epo
13:10<extremis>I just wish the capcitor wasn't so large
13:10<extremis>the thing is huge
13:10<extremis>I had to go up to 35v just go decrease the size
13:10<extremis>the guy selling it to me told me that going up was ok, was he right?
13:11<ca1vin>a new release
13:11<ca1vin>MythTV 0.10 Released
13:11<ca1vin>I didn't see that last night
13:11<ca1vin>was working on my dish
13:12<ca1vin>although this looks like cvs
13:12<ca1vin>I upgraded over the weekend
13:12<extremis>got an autogen?
13:12<ca1vin>and it seems to have most of this
13:18<Chutt>err, duh
13:18<Chutt>releases don't magically appear out of thin air, they're tagged out of cvs
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13:21<Conaz>Chutt: admit it, you hold back, then check a crap load into CVS just before you release ;)
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13:27<jkolb>Ahh! The png has been created, but it won't give it to me! Why, god, why?!
13:33<ca1vin>ya, I guess that came out wrong
13:34<ca1vin>what I ment to say is that it was that much different than when I upgraded from cvs over the weekend
13:34<ca1vin>was /wasn't
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13:39<jkolb>Yay! It works!
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13:41<jkolb>It turns out I had changed the filename I was sending with the ANN FileTransfer while I was trying to make it work earlier, and that just resulted in me never getting a pixmap returned.
13:41<jkolb>It expects a myth:// url, and I was giving it a path.
13:41<Chutt>yeah, for remote transfers, you need the url
13:41<Chutt>since it'll proxy that along to the proper slave backend if needed
13:42<jkolb>I was just getting frustrated at the time I made that change, and just went nuts changing things.
13:44<jkolb>THe biggest problem now is that I've changed so much in my local copy of mythweb that there's no way I can generate a nice patch.
13:44<jkolb>I suppose I can check out another copy and make the changes to that.
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13:54<jkolb>Oh, um, does anyone know the MIME type for png? I think IE is just autodetecting that it's a png coming across the wire and decoding it, but other browsers may not do such a thing.
13:55<just1nux>it's image/png
13:56<just1nux>theres also image/x-png
13:56<jkolb>Heh. What's the difference?
13:56<just1nux>i have no idea
13:56<jkolb>That's not good enough! <g>
13:58<Peit|Home>is there a way of tuning the mythtv window manually, (so i can watch the output from my video)?
13:59<just1nux>The x- prefix for the content-type indicates that the extension is not considered a standard type and may change or be defined otherwise by other users
14:00<just1nux>jkolb: btw IE being a microsoft product give more weight to file extensions than mime-types...however netscape and otherbrowsers ignore the file extension entirely
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14:09<mikekedl>simple question I hope: what do I have to add to get apt-get to work with mythtv?
14:09<mikekedl>so I can try to use it to upgrade to 10
14:09<jkolb>The file extension is .php
14:11<sfr>mikekedl: hm, wait for mdz to finish his 0.10 debian packages :-}
14:11<mikekedl>I'm running RH9+
14:11<mikekedl>will the debian packages work?
14:12<sfr>i don't know, i only use debian
14:12<mdz_>sfr: I have some preliminary packages ready, but haven't been able to test them yet. let me know if you would like to
14:13<mikekedl>ok, thanks; I guess I'll just grab the bz tarballs for now
14:13<sfr>thanks, but i switched to cvs lately. it's actually pretty easy thanks to stow.
14:14<sfr>but do you intend to add them to debian/main?
14:16<mdz_>sfr: if, eventually, mythtv can be rid of patent encumbrance
14:16-!-Gulliver [] has joined #mythtv
14:16<Gulliver>hey all
14:16<Gulliver>someone awake?
14:17<sfr>mdz: what patents might that be? mp3?
14:17<mdz_>sfr: pretty much everything in libavcodec
14:17<mdz_>and lame
14:18<sfr>i didn't know about the issues with libavcodec, do you have some details?
14:20<mdz_>search for "<any video encoding algorithm> patent" on google
14:20<sfr>ok, will do :-}
14:21<mdz_>MPEG-4 has many patents associated with it and the holders are actively defending them
14:21--> Peit|Home( has joined #mythtv
14:25<sfr>mdz: these patents also apply to cisco's MPEG4IP?
14:26<mdz_>sfr: I don't know what that is, but if it implements an MPEG-4 encoder, then yes
14:26<vektor>it doesn't, afaik.
14:26<mdz_>if the '4' is just a clever marketing substitution for '4', then maybe it implements some other kind of MPEG encoder, but as far as I know they are all patented
14:26<mdz_>or maybe it is just a transport
14:27<sfr>i'm not a programmer as you might guess, but from the
14:27<sfr>Q: What is the MPEG4IP Project?
14:27<sfr>activelo: MPEG4IP is an open source package designed to enable developers to create streaming servers and clients that are standards-based, and free from proprietary technology.
14:28<Peit|Home>apologies if someone answered previously (my X died), is there a way of controlling the tunner from within mythtv, Keys.txt doesn't list anything
14:28<vektor>sfr: Do you know what MPEG4IP actually does though?
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14:29<vektor>yeah, it is an encoder.
14:29<vektor>nevermind then :
14:29<vektor>read that though
14:30<vektor>"This project does not remove any responsiblity or liability rom developers or users of this kit."
14:30<vektor>(re: patents royalties)
14:31<mdz_>yeah, mpeg-4 isn't proprietary. it's nice and open, all you have to do is pay whatever they demand
14:32<sfr>so it's like mp3: decoding them is fine, but for encoders you would have to pay for?
14:33<vektor>sfr: who says?
14:33<vektor>sfr: you should probably contact the patent owners and ask
14:33<sfr>vektor: i thought.
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14:38<mdz_>I don't know what the situation is with regard to encoding vs. decoding
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14:43<Gulliver>can someone tell me how well the quality of a recording with wintv pvr-250 is, when the bitrate is set to a level which allows ~3hours of video on a dvd?
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14:45<mechou>the recent zap2it-xmltv fiasco has made me painfully aware how much mythtv is dependent on it. If zap2it goes away (like gist) did, what are the other alternatives?
14:46<sfr>mechou: dont' know where you live but Germany a few stations transmit an epg
14:47<sfr>so i use nxtvepg to collect all the epg data and export it into an xmltv file
14:47<mechou>I live in US. Europe might be more advanced...
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14:49<mechou>Is "free?" How about titantv? Earlier there was some talk of negotiating w/titantv when gist closed shop, but havent heard much about it since then...
14:49<sfr>mechou: just checked, yes it's for europe only and called nextview
14:51<mechou>sfr, here's the thing I don't understand about Europe and myth. How often do you use commercial skip? You guys probably don't need it much...
14:52<mechou>I mean I understand you guys need timeshift, but do you actually use commercial skip much at all?
14:53<mechou>Commercials only at the top of the hour, no?
14:53<sfr>almost all private stations interrupt movies at least 2x for ~3-5 minutes each.
14:54<sfr>mechou: no, can happen any time. sometimes they show 30sec. of a show and then take a 'commercial break'
14:54<sfr>mechou: haven't used the commercial detection in mythtv yet.
14:55<sfr>but from what i'v read about it, i think it migtht not work too well here.
14:56<choenig>sfr: i started using it some days ago here in germany and from my testings (about 10 shows) it found the comercials perfectly right!
14:56<mechou>so for a two hour movie, lets say, you get 20 minutes of commercials? (4x5min)
14:56<sfr>choenig: oh really, glad to hear
14:56<sfr>mechou: yes can happen
14:57<sfr>mechou: but some people got really used to the breaks, for peeing, getting a cold beer...
14:57<mechou>well here in US I it's 15-18 minutes for each hour of show. Thats ~25% time wasted...
14:57<choenig>sfr: as you I did'n expect it to work well, so the accuracy really surprised me :-)
14:58<mechou>and here you get ~4 comm breaks/hr.
14:59<sfr>choenig: so what happens during a dark scene? or is it limited to only a few black frames?
14:59<sfr>mechou: but short breaks then, no?
14:59<just1nux>commercial skip didnt liike 24 very much too many dark scenes.
15:00<mechou>around 5 min/break, which I don't think is any shorter than European breaks...
15:00<choenig>I don't know, from what I tested, I didn't have a false positive
15:01<sfr>justlnux: you mean a movie called "24"?
15:02<sfr>choenig: does it add a big cpu load?
15:03<choenig>I did not test 'realtime flag' stuff, I flagged them afterwards
15:04<just1nux>24 ... the series.
15:04<mechou>choenig, you mean running mythflagcommericail (either automatically or manually)?
15:04<just1nux>its just a very dark show.
15:04<choenig>yes, mythcommflag, right
15:05<mechou>yeah, whatever it's called...
15:07<jkolb>Chutt: Ok, I think I may know better what's causing the backend crash. The mythweb socket timeout is set for 3s. If the backend doesn't get the preview generated in that time (entirely possible if you're asking it to generate previews for all your recordings at once), then it seems like mythweb just closes the connection. It doesn't seem like mythbackend cleans up the thread as a result. Maybe.
15:07<Chutt>can you just have it generate the pngs sequentially?
15:07<jkolb>Or maybe it doesn't close it at all. Does php do cleanup and close all open handles when a script exits?
15:08<jkolb>I send the page to the client, and they request each image.
15:08<jkolb>I don't create the png before I send the page.
15:08<Peit|Home>am i right in thinking it's not possible to have 2 people watching livetv with only one tuner?
15:08<jkolb>I suppose I could do that. Make sure all the previews exist before I start sending any output.
15:08<Chutt>jkolb, i dunno, i'd have it try to generate the previews first
15:09<jkolb>Shouldn't be too hard. It'll just be a pre-pass through the list to generate the pngs.
15:09<Snow-Man>mkay, the list should be a little better now.
15:09<Chutt>snowman, it's been better ever since you un-broke it
15:09<sfr>Peit|Home: yes you are right
15:09<Peit|Home>sfr: ah, o.k thanks :)
15:09<Snow-Man>Chutt: That's was just a blockage on www.
15:09<Snow-Man>I've fixed it so that shouldn't happen anymore too.
15:10<Chutt>oh, you fixed the massive amount of sendmail processes spawning?
15:10<Snow-Man>I've also changed things around so that we don't have 800 defunct sendmail processes created only every 30 mins instead of every 3 mins.
15:10<Snow-Man>I need to figure out why it's creating that many to begin with but it's less of a problem now.
15:11<Snow-Man>Chutt: If you look at mailq you'll see there are 2 queues now.
15:11<Snow-Man>Well, queue groups really.
15:11<Snow-Man>Anyhow, the 'mqueue' one is processed every 3 mintues.
15:12<Chutt>'people that can't run their mail servers' and 'people that are smart'?
15:12<Snow-Man>The 'hourly' one is processed every 30 minutes.
15:12<Snow-Man>Things get moved to the hourly one if they're stuck in the queue for more than 25 minutes.
15:12<Snow-Man>Chutt: Pretty much, yea.
15:12<mdz_>Snow-Man: I know a good way not to have 800 defunct sendmail processes created
15:12<mdz_>Snow-Man: don't run sendmail :-P
15:12* mdz_ducks
15:12<Snow-Man>mdz_: pffft.
15:12<Chutt>mdz, snowman's a stubborn security weenie
15:13<mdz_>Chutt: security is the polar opposite of sendmail
15:13<Snow-Man>pffft some more.
15:13<Chutt>that's where the 'stubborn' part comes into play
15:13<Snow-Man>y'all can piss off, mkay? :)
15:13<Chutt>ya ya
15:14<Snow-Man>Hmm, I'm tempted to be more aggresive about moving stuff to the hourly queue.
15:15<Chutt>don't get _too_ aggressive
15:15<Chutt>it still takes 10-15 minutes sometime to send mail out
15:16<Snow-Man>Heh, alright.
15:16<Snow-Man>I changed the host status timeout up to 20 min from 5 min, that'll help some with shitty sites.
15:16<Snow-Man>It means there will still be at least 2 tries from the main queue regardless of what happened with the host before it'll get moved to hourly tho.
15:17<jkolb>Does mythbackend actually generate a new preview pixmap if it gets a QUERY_GENPIXMAP and a png already exists?
15:17<Snow-Man>Anyhow, that should help with the lots of sendmail processes problem and www won't hold off as long before trying again if it gets a refusal from colo.
15:18<Chutt>jkolb, probably
15:18<jkolb>Ok. I'll try to minimize the number of calls, then.
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15:18<Snow-Man>I'm sure there's something I'm missing with the assloads of sendmail processes, that's not normal.
15:19<Snow-Man>At least it should be taking alot less time for www->colo now.
15:20<Snow-Man>I might also play with persistant queue runners for just the main queue too.
15:20<Snow-Man>That'd reduce the delay we have now from the 3 minute cron job stuff.
15:21<Peit|Home>any pvr-[23]50 users here?
15:24<sfr>choenig: do you use mythtv with the german language?
15:24<Chutt>snowman, so, not as big of a traffic hit today =)
15:24<choenig>sfr: nope
15:24<Chutt>snowman, bad timing on the freshmeat update
15:24<Snow-Man>Chutt: You mean due to the release?
15:25<Snow-Man>You pushed a fair bit out..
15:25<sfr>choenig: if you like give it a look and report back errors, improvements.
15:25<Snow-Man>Well, over a gig, I guess not that bad really.
15:25<Peit|Home>anyone here know of any jumpy video problems with the pvr-x50 range?
15:25<Chutt>did about twice that on the previous release
15:26<Chutt>peit|home, no.
15:26<choenig>sfr: I never felt the need for a translation, but i'll have a look :)
15:26<Chutt>unless you're in PAL and capturing at non-full resolutions
15:26<Snow-Man>Well, you'd have to push like 30G for us to care much. ;)
15:26<Peit|Home>o.k. must have read it elsewhere, ah
15:26<Chutt>snowman, i'd have to push like 300
15:26<Peit|Home>chutt so PAL at width=720,height=576 (supposedly full res)
15:26<Snow-Man>Chutt: Well, assuming it dropped off.
15:27<Snow-Man>30GB/day would be cutting it close. :)
15:27<Chutt>peit|home, jumpy, as in moving up and down?
15:27<Peit|Home>Chutt: yeppers
15:27<Chutt>are you using PAL?
15:27<Chutt>people have reported that on the ivtv list
15:27<Peit|Home>Chutt: me, yeah,
15:27<Peit|Home>Chutt: thought i'd read it somewhere, *toddles off*
15:27<Chutt>you're the one that sent in the video?
15:28<Peit|Home>i'm the annoying one who couldn't get 0.9.0 to run, and couldn't get gdb to work :P
15:28<Peit|Home>but mythtv is so nice with the PVR_350 :)
15:29<Chutt>yeah, hardware encoding's nice
15:29<Peit|Home>Chutt: going to write a driver for the new red-eye remote for the pace STB for sky and UK cable :) so i decided to go the whole hog and buy a decent encoder
15:30<mechou>Is the quality really that much better using HW encoder?
15:30<Chutt>mechou, it's really about the same
15:30<jkolb>Ok, yeah, I'm fairly certain that closing the socket in the middle of the transfer is what was killing mythbackend.
15:31<Chutt>but, not using any cpu is nice
15:31<Chutt>jkolb, that would probably do it
15:31<Chutt>it's not very good about recovering from stuff like that
15:31<jkolb>Hm. About the only thing I can do is increase the timeout on the socket.
15:31<jkolb>I suppose I could also remove the timeout, but that seems like a bad idea somehow.
15:32<sfr>Peit|Home: and the filesize is similiar to the s/w encoded MPEG4 at the same quality?
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15:33<Peit|Home>sfr I don't know about file size, i'm still at the live-tv stage, and getting the odd segfault
15:33<billytwowilly>hi, I'm mucking about with my ati_remote.c file as per an email in the mailing list archive and it's working great, except that I can't figure out the name of <> those two keys.
15:33<billytwowilly>when I run xev I get "less" and "greater"
15:34<mechou>Chutt, so say you got a HW encoder, what do you do with the "spare" cycles, commercial flagging? I don't mean to be obtuse, but since I run a dedicated mythbox I'd rather spend $100 more on a processor than HW encoder, am I wrong?
15:34<billytwowilly>but when I put those in my ati_remote.c file and try to make it I getati_remote.c:162: `KEY_GREATER' undeclared here (not in a function)
15:36<Peit|Home>mechou: you still need a reasonable machine for the PCI stuff i believe
15:37<mechou>Peit: hm? what cpu you running with pvr-x50?
15:37<Peit|Home>mechou: me? dual 866 :P
15:38<sfr>Peit|Home: and you still _need_ the pvr-350 card?
15:38<Peit|Home>sfr no, who said i needed it?
15:38<Peit|Home>sfr the wintv card is the GFs
15:38<mechou>Peit: so say you didn't have HW encoder, your system was borderline w/myth SW encode?
15:38<sfr>Peit|Home: :-}}}
15:39<Peit|Home>mechou um, the encoding isn't multi-threaded
15:39<Peit|Home>(last i checked)
15:39<mechou>Peit: ah...
15:39<Peit|Home>mechou: I _don't_ want to drop _any_ frames on capture
15:40<Peit|Home>and IDE subsystems still suck, hence why i have a scsi scratch disk :)
15:40<mdz_>W: mythtv-frontend; Executable /usr/share/mythtv/themes/blue/mv-vbrowser.png with perms 0755 is not an ELF file or script.
15:40<mdz_>I thought that got fixed
15:40<Chutt>coulda sworn i did
15:41<Chutt>nothing in the cvs tree is +x anymore
15:43<mdz_>yeah, they aren't in the tree, but for some reason they are installed +x
15:43<mdz_>only the mv-* ones
15:44<mdz_>oh, they became +x in _my_ cvs tree
15:44<mdz_>when I imported it
15:44<mdz_>I hate cvs
15:46<jkolb>Chutt: Got it to die in gdb. thread apply all bt full, right?
15:47-!-Gulliver [] has quit []
15:47<jkolb>Dear god this is a long trace.
15:47-!-Gulliver [] has joined #mythtv
15:47<Chutt>that's the idea
15:48-!-Gulliver [] has quit []
15:48<jkolb>Aw, crap. All my standard libs are strippped.
15:48<vektor>Chutt: dude, I just did some banner ads for tvtime :)
15:48-!-Gulliver [] has joined #mythtv
15:48<vektor>Chutt: care to run them on your site?
15:48<Chutt>no :p
15:48<vektor>we can swap banner ads for each other
15:48<vektor>it'd be cool
15:48<vektor>we need marketing dude! :)
15:48<Chutt>naw, i don't
15:49<Chutt>i've got plenty of advertising
15:49<vektor>it's funny cause it's true :(
15:49<Chutt>you ever see that?
15:49<vektor>wow neat!
15:50-!-Gulliver [] has quit []
15:50<vektor>i was in wired once :)
15:50<vektor>i was in the june 1993 issue
15:50<jkolb>I don't want to rebuild everything again. Stupid friggin gentoo.
15:50<vektor>wired is cool :)
15:50<jkolb>Anyone know how to make gentoo never strip binaries?
15:50<Chutt>jkolb, why do you need everything built with debugging?
15:50<Chutt>all you need is mythtv
15:50<Chutt>if it's a problem in mythtv
15:51<jkolb>Oh. You don't care that all libc and friends report no symbol table available?
15:51<Chutt>bline, you were missing two '&'s in the v4l1 stuff =)
15:51<Chutt>jkolb, 'course not
15:51<jkolb>Oh, good.
15:51<jkolb>Well, then, more c&p for me!
15:51<Chutt>send it to me in an email
15:52<jkolb>Is there any way to dump this straight to a file instead of c&ping out of a term program?
15:53<vektor>thanks :)
15:53<Chutt>i'm still not adding it to my webpage :p
15:53<vektor>have this one too:
15:53<vektor>dang :)
15:53<vektor>i'm going to ask slashdot to run it
15:53<vektor>and give them no $$
15:53<vektor>see what they say
15:53<Peit|Home>Chutt: I've got a new backtrace here, no ??? but it does say "No Symbol table info available" is it any use to you?
15:53<Chutt>haven't they switched to vertical ads?
15:53<Chutt>peit, send it to me
15:54<vektor>Chutt: dunno, i should do a vertical ad too then :)
15:54<Peit|Home>Chutt: o.k.
15:54<Chutt>vektor, i block all ads on /., so i dunno, really :p
15:54<mechou>Chutt, what are you using to block ads?
15:55<Chutt>sourceforge is down
15:55<Scrye>big surprise
15:55<Chutt>mechou, buncha custom stuff
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15:55<mechou>Chutt, have you tried privoxy?
15:55<jkolb>Chutt: Sent.
15:57<Chutt>vektor, how many people are on your mailing list now?
15:57<vektor>Chutt: no idea, i lost the admin password.
15:57<vektor>well, i have it around, it's on my other machine
15:57<vektor>but that machine is dead
15:57<vektor>need to move the HD somewhere
15:57<vektor>until then, nobody unsubscribes that can't use the fucking form.
15:57<vektor>(i have 2 admin requests pending) ;)
15:58<Chutt>jkolb, err, which thread crashed?
15:58<Chutt>wow, only 2?
15:58<Chutt>i've got something like 300
15:58<vektor>Chutt: yeah, barely anyone is on my ml.
15:58<Chutt>and that's just this past list
15:58<Chutt>past week
15:58<Chutt>_lot_ of spam
16:00<Chutt>would help to have the other threads in there
16:00<Peit|Home>Chutt: sent,
16:01<jkolb>I haven't exited gdb
16:01<bline>strange Chutt, I did test it
16:01<Chutt>it's basically dying because the connection was closed while it was doing stuff with it
16:01<Chutt>bline, no problem, i really don't care =)
16:02<Chutt>bline, the GetV4L1Field was returning a pointer to a local copy of the struct, not the one that was passed in
16:02<jkolb>Would you like the other threads? I can still get them.
16:02<Chutt>jkolb, they won't show up
16:02<Chutt>if the 'thread apply all bt full' doesn't work
16:02<jkolb>I see.
16:02<Chutt>they're _there_, just not with any useful data
16:03<jkolb>Does that have anything to do with the fact that I have most things compiled -fomit-frame-pointer and stripped?
16:03-!-billytwowilly [] has quit ["Client exiting"]
16:03<Chutt>peit|home, without it in debug mode, backtraces are meaningless
16:04<Chutt>jkolb, quite possibly
16:04<mdz_>myth requires an insane amount of memory to compile these days
16:04<Chutt>mdz, have you seen the data on gcc 3.4 and 3.5?
16:04<mdz_>Chutt: oh god, don't tell me it's worse
16:04<Chutt>the stuff that's in cvs is like 2x as slow as 3.3 is at c++ right now
16:05<mdz_>you can't even build myth with g++ 2.95 in 128M of memory
16:05<Chutt>it's absurd
16:05<yebyen>what the crap
16:05<mdz_>it had better produce code that is twice as small and twice as fast
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16:06<yebyen>my mythtv machine has 256mb of ram in it
16:06<Chutt>hell no, that won't happen :p
16:06<Scrye>ine has 512
16:06<kolb>Yay! We may be fixing our overloaded circuit.
16:07<kolb>So I won't be disconnected eight times daily.
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16:10<Peit|Home>Chutt: thought as much, recompiling already
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16:11<Peit|Home>bah, i need another box,
16:17<mdz_>Chutt: you just HAD to do it differently this time
16:17<mdz_>oh shit that was me :-)
16:17<Chutt>yes, that was you
16:18<mdz_>I don't think I intended to change the format
16:18<Chutt>doesn't really matter
16:19<mdz_>no, except I didn't notice it when I cut-and-pasted the database upgrade code
16:19<mdz_>heh, a new release always brings out the helpful suggestions
16:19<mdz_>here is my roadmap for what I would like for you to implement
16:20<Chutt>yeah, the dumbass is like asking for suggestions on a roadmap he wants me to write
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16:26<choenig>sfr: I just switched to german translation, but most that stuff sound terrible to me. For example 'TV Planer' though i cannot suggest any better
16:26<jkolb>Damn. php doesn't support unsigned ints, so recordings where 2G < size < 4G, the lowpart gets messed up, and the preview won't generate.
16:27<sfr>choenig> :-) thanks for the motivation, some of those english words are hard to translate
16:28<choenig>sfr: I know that! I had a few translation tries
16:28<sfr>choenig: i thought about just calling it EPG, but what does that mean to a non-english speaking person
16:30<mdz_>Chutt: do you think I should ship unstripped binaries in the .debs?
16:30<choenig>hmm, maybe it should be a good translation of smth like 'tv guide' or so
16:31<Chutt>up to you
16:31<Chutt>doesn't matter to me
16:31<sfr>choenig: ??
16:32<choenig>sfr: for me its some kind of 'fernsehzeitung' but that is not right thing, too.
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16:34<choenig>and, for example, I would prefer something like "Manuelle Programmierung" than "Manuelle Planung". I really don't know, I'm not a good translator, thats what I learned from the past ;)
16:34<Snow-Man>mdz_: I'd go ahead and do it for now.
16:34<vektor>Chutt: want to see my 'skyscraper' banner ad? :)
16:34<mdz_>Snow-Man: I think I will next time I build it
16:35<mdz_>I just finished, and it takes fucking forever
16:35<Snow-Man>Yes, it does.
16:35<Snow-Man>Though it probably takes less time on the dual 2.8ghz Xeon box we got today. :)
16:35<sfr>choenig: :-), and it has to fit on the screen as well
16:36<choenig>sfr: yeah, I know, that doesn't make things any better :)
16:38<choenig>sfr: on the other hand, maybe I only need to adapt to the new translation
16:39<sfr>choenig: usually i also prefer english, but as i'm not a programmer thats one way to support mythtv
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16:39<mdz_>woody debs for 0.10 are up
16:39<mdz_>unstable will be up shortly
16:41<sfr>mdz: i can test the unstable debs if you like, if it hasnt to be on my master backend
16:41<mdz_>sfr: I'm satisfied with them; I'm just uploading them now
16:41<mdz_>sfr: but do let me know if they work OK for you
16:42<sfr>ok, will try them.
16:42<mdz_>ok, unstable is up
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16:49<mdz_>Chutt: so there's no longer any way to start the add-ons indepedently, right?
16:49<mdz_>guess I'll be adding deps on mythfrontend
16:54<Chutt>mythfrontend <pluginname> will start it up
16:55<Chutt>but, no dedicated binaries anymore
16:56<jkolb>Hm, would it be worthwhile to allow mythfrontend to check argv[0] and if it was started as something other than 'mythfrontend,' act as though it was started as 'mythfrontend <argv[0]>'?
16:56<Chutt>eh, doesn't really matter
16:57<Chutt>i had thought of doing that, but...
16:57<Chutt>mdz, so, what'll it take to get packages for the plugins you don't package currently? =)
16:57<mdz_>no point, really
16:57<jkolb>I would never use it, but I thought I'd suggest it, at least.
16:57<mdz_>Chutt: someone said they were doing mythvideo, and someone else said they were doing mythgame
16:57<Chutt>mdz, i don't think they have any additional requirements
16:57<mdz_>as far as I know, neither have produced packages yet, but at least one of them seemed serious
16:57<Chutt>so it'd be similar packaging stuff for all of them
16:58<mdz_>yeah, in other words, it's dead simple and anyone could do it :-P
16:58<mdz_>build-dep on libmyth-0.10-dev and go
16:58<Chutt>they should be hosted on your site, though
16:58<Chutt>i'd think
16:58<mdz_>sure, I have no problem with that
16:58<sfr>mdz: but you seem a perfect candidate for the job :-)
16:58<mdz_>I told the people who said they would do it that I would host them
16:58<Chutt>what'd it take for me to do em?
16:59<mdz_>take one of the existing ones and do some search and replaces :-)
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16:59<mdz_>it's getting to be a pain to do all the builds when a new release comes out
16:59<mdz_>so I'd rather not take on any more
16:59<Chutt>i'm pondering making all the plugins one package
16:59<mdz_>that'd be one way to get me to do it
17:00<Chutt>well, i had been pondering merging them all into the main download
17:00<Chutt>but someone in here suggested one tarball for all the plugins
17:00<Chutt>which makes sense, i think
17:03<mdz_>you'd have to put some logic in so that it wouldn't build them all if the prerequisites aren't there
17:03<Chutt>the only thing that has any prerequisites is mythmusic
17:03<mdz_>make mythmusic separate, then?
17:03<Chutt>was thinking of a simple configure script
17:03<Chutt>allow you to disable things if you'd want to
17:05<mdz_>or maybe just separate make targets
17:07<mdz_>mythweb, mythmusic and mythweather debs up
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17:11<Captain_Murdoch_>Chutt: wasn't someone working on auto-delete at some point? did you ever see any code come out of that?
17:14<mdz_>and mythgallery
17:14<mdz_>ok, everything on my site is up to date with 0.10 now
17:15<mdz_>it's too bad mythmusic can't build on woody
17:15<mdz_>silly flac
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17:16<mdz_>Chutt: really, it should be completely trivial to do the other add-ons; it's just a pain for me to do the builds and I don't use them at all
17:17<mdz_>I couldn't test mythgame if I wanted to; no ROMs
17:17<jkolb>Ah. It's not that the files were over 2G, it was that they were all movies, and hence had no subtitles, and I didn't split up the []:[]s with a space. (I think)
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17:28<jkolb>Ugh. Backend still died. I'll have to look more later.
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17:34* blinemessed up the release :(
17:34<Chutt>bline, naw, you didn't
17:35<bline>I just noticed you said v4l1, which I did not test
17:35<Chutt>yeah, well, i didn't test it either =)
17:35<bline>so 0.10 release had broken color controls?
17:36<Chutt>for v4l1, yeah
17:36<Chutt>they don't do anything
17:36<Chutt>no biggie
17:36<Chutt>if people want it to work, they can install cvs
17:36<Chutt>and i'll hopefully keep to this faster release schedule
17:37<bline>Hows the color dialog coming?
17:37<Chutt>haven't even started it
17:40<Captain_Murdoch_>Chutt: did you see my message about someone working on auto-delete?
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17:41<Captain_Murdoch_>wasn't someone working on auto-delete at some point? did you ever see any code come out of that?
17:42<Captain_Murdoch_>that's ok. I lurk in here sometimes and don't pay attention. :)
17:42<Chutt>he was just in here earlier today
17:42<Chutt>lemme see..
17:42<Chutt>[12:16] <TheAsp> Chutt: What would you like to see in my autodel thing before accepting it?
17:42<Chutt>[12:16] <TheAsp> chutt: aside from having it run in a thread and the gui all working
17:42<Chutt>[12:16] <TheAsp> and it not being broken :P
17:42<Captain_Murdoch_>thanks. couldn't remember the name. I wish we'd just get something in there to shut up these people who keep talking about it submitting ideas. :)
17:43<Peit|Home>Chutt: just sent you another backtrace, this one appears to have more info in
17:43-!-hfb [] has joined #mythtv
17:43<Captain_Murdoch_>has he sent you any patches?
17:45<Chutt>peit, has more info, but i don't see why it'd die
17:47<Chutt>captain_murdoch, i'd kinda think that if you want to work on that, go ahead
17:47<Chutt>since he did start working on that something like 6 months ago
17:48<Peit|Home>Chutt: hmm, i wonder where the symbol table is
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17:50<sfr>Chutt: just now one scheduled recording didn't start, this appeared in the backends logfile:
17:50<sfr>Mit Jul 2 23:49:00 2003: wanted to record:
17:50<sfr>NDR3 1022 Mit Jul 2 23:48:43 2003
17:50<sfr>But current state is: 4
17:50<sfr>currently: Ottis Schlachthof 1022 Mit Jul 2 23:45:00 2003 Don Jul 3 00:45:00 2003
17:51<sfr>what does it tell me?
17:51<Captain_Murdoch_>well, I was thinking that I could probably get something relatively simple working in a few hours. ie, a setting to turn auto-expire on/off with on being delete-oldest-first to start with possible ability to flag as non-deleteable
17:51<Captain_Murdoch_>then add other methods like using oldest with lowest rating, etc.
17:51<Peit|Home>Chutt: I notice from the backtrace that it's set to record at 480x480 is that hard coded, or have i missed a config setting?
17:52<Captain_Murdoch_>let people drop in code for other methods if they want as well just by adding a new case/function and setting.
17:53<just1nux>would this be an overall auto delete or show by show? just wondering cuz there are come things that I only want to keep the newest recording...local news..etc.
17:56<Captain_Murdoch_>I'd like an option that says "Keep X instances of this show", so that could be added to auto-delete as well eventually. If the deleter detected 6 instances and I had it set to only keep 5 it would delete the oldest one provided that it wasn't flagged as undeletable.
17:56<Chutt>sfr, that it's currently recording that other program?
17:56<Chutt>captain_murdoch, go for it
17:56<Chutt>peit|home, setup -> tv settings -> recordings
17:56<Chutt>resolution's set there
17:56<Conaz>Captain_Murdoch: I'm on board with a keep it simple type solution :)
17:57<Conaz>Although I have a wife who is delete happy anyway, our TiVo never even gets a chance to delete shows on it's own anyway
17:57<Captain_Murdoch_>ok, have an AutoExpire thread running that loops like the scheduler does and sleeps for 60 seconds. so every 60 seconds it will wake up and do the auto-delete code. now I just need to fill in the meat. :)
17:58<Peit|Home>Chutt: that's the front end yeah?
17:58<Captain_Murdoch_>yeah, but if I go out of town for a few days on key days, I could get 20 megs of movies, "Monster Garage", "Monster House", and the wife's daily home-shows. :)
17:58<Peit|Home>Chutt: mythfrontend?
17:58<Conaz>Captain_Murdoch: could somethign like that run simply at the start of recordings?
17:58<Peit|Home>Chutt: so that's just output,.. not the input on the backend
17:58<Peit|Home>Chutt: iyswim
17:59<sfr>Chutt: ok, ok, you're right i think i scheduled a manual recording for the same show but this didn't show up in the recording onflicts screen
17:59<Peit|Home>Chutt: doh..
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17:59<Conaz>Captain_Murdoch: instead of all the time. When it switches to recording, you check for space (minus what one has set aside for live tv buffer) and if there isn't room, then kick a few recordings?
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18:02<Captain_Murdoch_>Conaz, that could be an option. to keep it simple to begin with, I'm just going to have each backend check it's own space and delete files that it recorded since that will handle nfs and non-nfs scenarios.
18:03<Conaz>Sounds like a plan
18:03<Captain_Murdoch_>I gave the constuctor a runThread parameter just like the scheduler so it will allow starting the expirer in a run-once mode if wanted.
18:04<Conaz>I need to work faster on my xbox module modifications so I can start looking more closely at myth stuff
18:04<Captain_Murdoch_>problem with that is you never know how much space the recording will take, so checking every 1 or 5 minutes will let you delete on an as-needed basis rather than 2-3 programs at once.
18:05<Conaz>That was why my thought of subtracting the space allocated for liveTV buffer
18:05<Conaz>but, as long as it works, really :)
18:07<Captain_Murdoch_>not talking livetv. it's much easier/better to just check every so often than to have to try to predict how much space will be used while I'm recording the program that's just starting.
18:07<Captain_Murdoch_>especially since I can have multiple backends recording to the same nfs filesystem or multiple tuners on the same backend eating up varying amounts of space
18:08<Conaz>Ah, yes, the fun
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18:09<Conaz>good luck, with all the talk about it, it should be a high profile patch :)
18:09<Conaz>time to bail home
18:09<creepy>mythtv cannot install -database (cannot create user I guess without password)
18:10<creepy>where can I set the root pass for mysql in mythtv to access the db?
18:11<creepy>well, installed the debian packages...
18:16<sfr>creepy: should be in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt
18:16<creepy>no not the user who runs mythtv
18:17<creepy>Setting up mythtv-database (0.10-1) ...
18:17<creepy>Failed to connect to database: Access denied for user: 'root@localhost' (Using p
18:17<creepy>assword: NO) at -e line 5, <> line 1.
18:17<creepy>I meant this
18:17<creepy>it uses no passwd and I have a pass for root to access sql
18:17<sfr>this happens during installation?
18:17<creepy>ja :)
18:18<sfr>is this the first mythtv installation, or an upgrade?
18:18<creepy>well I've tried it yesterday, did not go, purged all, now retry
18:18<creepy>did the same actually
18:19<sfr>yesterday? mdz just released the 0.10 packages today
18:19<creepy>it was the old version
18:19<creepy>it asked only the host and the port at installation (today)
18:20<creepy>but no passwd
18:20<creepy>are you a devel?
18:20<creepy>bist du einer? :)
18:20<sfr>for the 0.8 version, mdz created a random password for the mythtv mysql user, don't know if he changed that.
18:20<Peit|Home>sodit, my mythbackend is going to get upgraded tomorrow
18:21<creepy>but it cannot even create the DB since it has no rootpass for mysql :)
18:21<sfr>creepy: Ne, nur ein interessierter.
18:21<creepy>it cannot access it and add a mythtv user to it :)
18:21<sfr>creepy: warte mal...
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18:21<creepy>are you debiani too?
18:22<sfr>creepy: what else :-)
18:22<creepy>okay how did you install mythtv ;)
18:22<sfr>creepy: from cvs, are you using stable or unstable?
18:23<creepy>is cvs stable enough?
18:23<creepy>guess I must talk to mdz then :)
18:24<sfr>its even more stable :-), the color adjustment was broken, but maybe mdz fixed it in his packages
18:24<creepy>is he US?
18:24<sfr>i think so
18:24<creepy>I ask him then tomorrow ~4pm our time ;)
18:26<sfr>creepy: what is your priority for these debconf questions, maybe you have to set it to low; just a guess
18:26<creepy>set to low acutally
18:28<sfr>creepy: so you never see this question: What is the name of the MySQL administrator account?
18:28<creepy>didn't see that
18:28<sfr>this should get asked when installing mythtv-database
18:32<creepy>sleep time, see you tomorrow
18:32<creepy>schlaf gut (wenn ueberhaupt..)
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18:50<yebyen>hooray, new working xmltv
18:53<yebyen>Chutt: i'm curious, any reason you're going to 0.10 for the next release (according to at least), rather than 1.0? :)
18:54<choenig>yebyen: 0.10 was released today ;)
18:54<yebyen>oh, shit :
18:54<yebyen>i don't pay much attention
18:54<yebyen>so, what's the deal :)
18:56<moegreen>it's a point release - not a decimal number
18:56<yebyen>er, what will it take for 1.0? :)
18:57<choenig>yebyen: why do you need a 1.0?
18:57<yebyen>i don't, it just seems odd :)
18:58<yebyen>i'm easily irritated, it's odd how like 6 open source projects ever get to 1.0, regardless of feature-completeness
19:00<choenig>yeah, they don't dare, but there really is no need to speed up to a 7.0 release ;-)
19:01<yebyen>lol slackware :)
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21:14<DrHayt>so lets just say I want to transcode something....
21:14<DrHayt>so I go in and edit the saved program, put in some cut points.
21:15<DrHayt>then I should hit X to start the transcoding right?
21:15<DrHayt>Anyone here sucessfully transcoding?
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21:20<Captain_Murdoch>I think you have to run mythtranscode from the command-line currently but I don't know.
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21:24<mechou>I've got a buddy who's got a myth machine similar to mine. What command do I issue to install myth on his machine assuming I've already compiled on my machine?
21:25<mechou>I've got administrative rights and ssh access to my buddy's machine...
21:25<DrHayt>you need to move the sources and objs to his machine
21:25<mechou>I'm talking myth cvs, btw....
21:25<DrHayt>then run make install
21:25<DrHayt>for example if you have a directory called mythtv
21:25<DrHayt>with all the modules in it
21:26<DrHayt>something like this:
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21:26<DrHayt>tar -cf - mythtv | ssh othermachine -l otherperson "cd whereuwantit;tar -xvf -"
21:26<DrHayt>will move the stuff betwixt the machines
21:26<DrHayt>then after you get it moved, go to the other machine and do something like this
21:26<Captain_Murdoch>and if you're on a cablemodem and he's got a fast computer it's probably faster to recompile than scp over a hundred megs of the myth source tree
21:27<DrHayt>probably true
21:27<DrHayt>I was assuming he had no sources already
21:27<mechou>Capt: exactly... but how do I avoid the recompile step on my buddy's machine?
21:27<Chutt>use the debs or the rpms
21:28<DrHayt>probably the most prudent suggestion.
21:29<mechou>hmm, I was just wondering if there was a command simple like make install_obj or something like that...
21:31<DrHayt>make install would do it, but you would have to have pretty much the whole sources with their timestamps intact on the remote machine.
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21:49<jfire>is XMLTV broken again?
21:53<jfire>zap2it failed to give us a form to choose a Provider
21:53<jfire>check with zap2it site postal/zip code --provider is valid
21:53<jfire>tv_grab_na --config-file '/home/mythtv/.mythtv/Cable TV.xmltv' --configure --retry-limit 2 --retry-delay 30 --postalcode --provider --auto-new-channels add
21:53<jfire>exited with status 256
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21:56<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: you still around?
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21:59<Snow-Man>How're the lists doin?
21:59<Captain_Murdoch>:) didn't think so. thanks
21:59<Captain_Murdoch>is there an easy way for me to send a message from one thread to another in the backend?
21:59<Captain_Murdoch>like a DELETE_RECORDING
22:00<Chutt>through the context
22:00<Chutt>snowman, 7 minutes www -> colo, 3 minutes to send
22:00<Chutt>for the last message i sent out
22:00<Captain_Murdoch>ok, I was thinking there was. thanks.
22:00<Chutt>captain_murdoch, see how it's done?
22:00<Chutt>this is unrelated threads, i assume?
22:00<Snow-Man>Hrmpf, well, that's not that bad I guess but kinda long for www->colo.
22:00<Captain_Murdoch>haven't looked that far into it, but I'll figure it out. :)
22:01<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, if I have an autoexpire thread like the scheduler thread. I want to send a DELETE_RECORDING message to delete programs.
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22:01<Chutt>snowman, so, what'cha going to work on next on the colo box? =)
22:01<bline>hmm, brightness=32768;hue=32768;colour=32512;contrast=27648 looks correct to me
22:01<Snow-Man>I dunno, probably actualy moving the lists.
22:02<Snow-Man>Not going to happen tonight though.
22:02<Chutt>oh, of course
22:02<Chutt>bline, test patterns and a blue filter? =)
22:03<Chutt>looks right generally isn't even close to right, at least from my experience
22:03<bline>the thread about color from Mike Wohlgemuth
22:03<Chutt>though i can eyeball it pretty close nowadays
22:04<Chutt>ah, yeah
22:04<Chutt>i don't know what's up with his stuff
22:04<bline>I mean the values look correct
22:04<bline>does v4l1 have a way to get a correct range or are they all assumed the same?
22:05<Chutt>i dunno
22:05<vektor>range for what?
22:05* blineworries he broke more stuff
22:05<vektor>all v4l1 ranges are 0-65535
22:05<vektor>v4l2 ranges you have to query
22:05<vektor>and it's far too complicated
22:05<bline>vektor: yeah, that's what I was asking
22:06<bline>actually, the v4l2 code is less complicated, atleast in this instance
22:06<bline>and it's more flexable
22:06<vektor>for what?
22:06<vektor>for controls?
22:06<Chutt>picture controls
22:06<vektor>i don't think it's less complicated
22:06<vektor>i think it's needlessly too complicated
22:07<bline>it was easier to make a generic function for all the different controls, thus making it less complicated.
22:07<vektor>see, i totally disagree with that. these controls aren't just for users.
22:08<vektor>but anyway.
22:08<bline>define "users"
22:08<vektor>well i don't know how you're doing it
22:08<vektor>so i shoudl shut up
22:08<bline>user's of the app that uses v4l2, or programmers that use v4l2?
22:08<vektor>i mean, my app needs to have control specifically over certain things like brightness and contrast
22:10<Chutt>so do we
22:10<Chutt>store it on a per-channel basis in the database
22:10<vektor>then i'll shut up now.
22:10<vektor>i haven't done it in my code yet.
22:10<vektor>i'm just worried
22:10<vektor>since i need to query the min/max
22:10<Chutt>he's just saying that it was nice and easy to consolidate all 4 picture controls down into one function with v4l2
22:10<vektor>since my controls to the user are sliders.
22:10<bline>look at channel.cpp
22:10<Chutt>and it wasn't quite as nice for v4l
22:11<vektor>Chutt: i guess.
22:11<Chutt>since with v4l it's different members of a structure that needs modifying
22:11<Chutt>not discrete controls
22:12<Chutt>we're still assuming everything's the same range
22:12<Chutt>that then gets translated into the actual range on the fly after querying it
22:12<vektor>isn't that broken?
22:12<vektor>great cause that's what i was going to do
22:12<vektor>let me know if you have problems.
22:12<Chutt>bline did all that
22:12<Chutt>works fine :p
22:12<Chutt>oh, oops
22:13<Chutt>missing samurai jack
22:13<bline>reminds me, I need to set that up for recording
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22:15<ahbritto>Chutt: must get a pvr!
22:24<jkolb>Hm. I have all the pixmaps generating now, but the backend still dies occasionally.
22:24<Chutt>ahbritto, naw, not for something i'm going to watch every day anyway
22:25<Chutt>jkolb, same type of death?
22:26<jkolb>It seems to happen once I pass the page back to the client still, yeah. With the backend in debug mode, messages just start flying by, and then sometimes it dies.
22:26<jkolb>Sometimes it doesn't, though. Like this time. I had it generate all 38 pixmaps and it survived just fine.
22:26<Chutt>cache the pixmaps on the server, instead?
22:27<jkolb>Hm. I suppose I could do that.
22:27<jkolb>I suppose I'll need a path setting for that.
22:27<Chutt>that way you wouldn't be pounding on it for tons of stuff at once
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22:38<brandon_>anyone know why the backend/mysql isn't allowing even root to start mythbackend after a 0.9->0.10 upgrade? (I've ypdated the database from 0.9->0.10 via the mysql < <file> command.. Mysql error is, Access denied for user: 'mythtv@localhost' (Using password: YES)" (I never have set a password for mysql)
22:40<brandon_>the /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt has a password entry, but removing the password, or commented out that line doesn't help.
22:40<Captain_Murdoch>try using the -h option to mysql and give it your hostname mysql -h hostname < file
22:41<brandon_>no.. it took for the mysql file update, but I can't start mysqlbackend.
22:42<Captain_Murdoch>make sure you don't have "localhost" in your mysql.txt file.
22:43<Captain_Murdoch>and make sure you set the real IPs in setup and not left them at
22:44<brandon_>so what if I only have a localhost?
22:45<mdz_>wtf is with people and the database password for the debs?
22:45<mdz_>it asks the question at high priority
22:46<brandon_>I did a source install, :-/ I used to use debian packages, but am done with that as I'm going to be tweaking code, I'm just not a mysql guy, and it's give me nothing but pain, especially via debian packages.
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22:47<Chutt>if you previously used the debian packages, the password for mythtv's table is likely different than the default
22:47<brandon_>everything worked fine before the 0.9 to 0.10, I don't know what caused mysql to want a password, but I didn't set it.
22:48<-- mechou( has left #mythtv
22:48<brandon_>so how do I get an aligned password?
22:48<brandon_>I put foo in mysql.txt, but then for mysql, how is it done for the mythconverg database?
22:48<Chutt>see the first couple lines of the mc.sql script
22:48<Chutt>creates a user and gives it a password
22:56<mdz_>the password is in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt
22:56<mdz_>of course
22:56<mdz_>anyway I was talking about the mysql root password, which someone was asking about earlier
22:57<mdz_>it asks for the mysql root password at high priority so it can create the database
22:57<mdz_>but for some reason people still don't see it half the time
22:58<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: question about that context message thing. So I create my own message string and then dispatch it from my thread. then in mainserver::customevent I can put a case to handle that event to eventually get to the delete recording code? or am I way offbase?
23:16<jkolb>Woot. I think I got it.
23:19<jkolb>Chutt: Would you rather I send the patch to you or to the list?
23:20<ahbritto>Who implemented the commerical detection?
23:22<ahbritto>nm. found it.
23:24<Captain_Murdoch>MythTV has commercial detection? :)
23:24<jkolb>Hm. Maybe I should look into having it delete .nuv.pngs in the specified directory if they don't correspond to a recording.
23:25<ahbritto>Captain_Murdoch: yes.
23:26<Captain_Murdoch>:) sorry ahbritto, I was being sarcastic. I wrote the commercial skip/detection code.
23:26<ahbritto>I had an idea.
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23:26<ahbritto>I was just watching this commerical that looked really hard to detect.
23:27<ahbritto>Then it hit, me all commerical don't have the silly station logo on them.
23:27<Captain_Murdoch>It doesn't do logo detection yet.
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23:27<bline>most channels here dont use a logo all the time
23:27<ahbritto>I noticed, the current station, was actually switching on two logos. BTW.
23:27<Captain_Murdoch>blank-frame is the best and scene detection can help that a little.
23:28<ahbritto>It seems cable stations do more logo time.
23:28<Captain_Murdoch>have lots of ideas I'd like to implement, just have to find the time.
23:28<brandon_>I've tried everything, but mythfrontend starts up with only the background (no buttons) and when trying to start the database, I get, "Error getting inputs for the capturecard. Perhaps you haveforgotten to bind video sources to your card's inputs?ERROR: No channel sources defined in the database "
23:28<ahbritto>Will there be real time commerical detection at some point?
23:29<Captain_Murdoch>it can do a little based upon blank frame detection, but it takes a bit of cpu to do other stuff so I'm not concentrating on real-time detection.
23:31<ahbritto>Out of curiosity, what is the next improvement you are planning?
23:32<ahbritto>BTW, comming from TiVo, I really like the automatic commerical detection. Thank you.
23:33<Captain_Murdoch>I have code in my tree right now to give an option to ease up on the strictness of the detection code to make it detect more stuff. I watched a movie off AMC the other night and it did terrible so I played around with the code the other night. probably will try logo detection sometime soon since I already can do a histogram of each frame for the scene change stuff.
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23:36<ahbritto>You may have thought of this. I assume you have a proablity per frame of the frame being a commerical. Perhaps, based upon a user setting you could adjust the commerical threshold till the commerical to program ratio matches a user setting. In the use the ratio is usually 45 minutes program to 15 minutes commerical for commerical channels.
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23:38<Captain_Murdoch>right now the blank frame detection stuff looks for blank frames that are within a certain distance of each other (ie, 30 seconds, etc.). the newer code I mentioned will let you make those lengths less strict since I've been seeing some channels play 29, 31, 59, and 61 second commercials.
23:40<ahbritto>Don't you do something with fast cut detection?
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23:44<Captain_Murdoch>what do you mean by that?
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>scene changes?
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>the scene change code can help the blank frame stuff but it's not good enough to stand on it's own.
23:45<bline>didnt someone mention volume change detection once
23:45<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, that's on my list.
23:45<ahbritto>I was thinking, if you had a range of scene changing, the total commerical length ratio could be used to influence the commerical threshold.
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23:46<ahbritto>Captain_Murdoch: I have another idea if I am not bothering you... ?
23:46<Captain_Murdoch>the code currently looks for areas of high rates of scene changes and can use those to help determine where commercials occur.
23:47<ahbritto>I thought, that commerical could be identified by signature. That is anything that repeats is identified as a commerical.
23:48<ahbritto>Once a commerial is identified (in the DB), then real time commerical killing could happen when the inital signature is matched.
23:48<brandon_>.. if there is someone who is good at mysql, I could greatly use their help.
23:48<Captain_Murdoch>that's been mentioned before also. takes a lot of manual intervention though so I don't think I'll implement it anytime soon. if someone else submits a patch that works then that's fine with me.
23:49<ahbritto>Manual intervention?
23:49<Captain_Murdoch>someone has to say "this is the signature for a commercial". if you can auto-detect the commercials to determine signatures then you don't need to save them.
23:50<ahbritto>You could detect them automatically after the fact (non-realtime), by noticing repeating sequences. Then use the inital sequence to auto-detect them in real-time.
23:51<ahbritto>This method would count program opennings as commericals. :P
23:52<Captain_Murdoch>well, like I said, i doubt I'll implement anything like that anytime soon. I think there are easier, less cpu-intensive ways to detect them.
23:52<brandon_>.. could someone atleast tell me, if I clear out my database, everything, is completely wiped out, including being able to access recorded show that currently exist, correct?
23:53<ahbritto>Not trying to presure you. :) I am still trying to figure out what I might contribute too.
23:53<ahbritto>brandon_: Well, technically, the shows are not in the database and still accessible on throught the file system.
23:54<Captain_Murdoch>brandon_: yes, but there's a perl script to try to repopulate the db from your storage dir.
23:57<brandon_>so since it appears that myth can't find any channels in the database, and all I get is the background when startnig mythfrontend, and since mythtv-setup no longer exists, is the only way to fix this is to clear the whole mythconverg database and build it from scratch?
23:57<Captain_Murdoch>brandon_: if you install from cvs or tarball, then there is no mythtv-setup. try running setup in the setup directory.
23:58<brandon_>all that setup program does is give me the background.
23:59<brandon_>I have no buttons or anything to select to do the configuring.
23:59<brandon_>I can hit escape to exit the setup program, but that is _it_.
23:59<Captain_Murdoch>I don't know then.