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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-08-26

---Logopened Tue Aug 26 00:00:50 2003
00:01<linagee>anyone have a pvr-250?
00:03<linagee>what is a good setting for mpg_buffers?
00:03<linagee>bline: i set mine to 50....
00:03<linagee>is too big, bad?
00:04<bline>I have mine set at 100
00:04<linagee>bline: do you get jumps in the video every once in a while?
00:04<linagee>bline: what kind of results do you get on hdparm -t -T /dev/hda ?
00:05<linagee>i get buffered disk reads: 28.67 MB/sec
00:05<bline>Timing buffered disk reads: 154 MB in 3.01 seconds = 51.09 MB/sec
00:14<tmk>is "hdparm -t -T" destructive?
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00:22<o_cee>chutt: are you open for a suggestion that would stop stupid people like me to screw up things a little less?
00:23* dwmurphy found his problem
00:30<sc00p_>dwmurphy: what was the problem?
00:32<dwmurphy>sc00p_: i had some issues with fsck and a flakey power supply a while back. it looks like it messed up about 2 lines of >
00:33<bline>tmk: it says not to run it when the drive is active, but I've never seen it cause any problems
00:34<tmk>just got a new HD
00:34<tmk>seems fast :)
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00:49<mdz>dwmurphy: xmltv 0.5.16 in unstable works fine. why would you downgrade?
00:50<mdz>somebody explain to mechou that "compile from source" doesn't solve anyone's problems
00:50<dwmurphy>mdz: i'm on 16 now.. i thought i saw a note on the home page saying 16 broke something
00:50<dwmurphy>mdz: heh :)
00:50<mdz>dwmurphy: works fine for me
00:51<tmk> Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.10 seconds =116.36 MB/sec
00:51<tmk> Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.41 seconds = 45.39 MB/sec
00:51<mdz>I just tested --list-providers (which is what setup uses) with 0.5.16 and it worked fine
00:51<dwmurphy>yeah.. it's working here now too. helps when the perl modules aren't corrupt
00:51<dwmurphy>i didn't check.. i just re-typed in the line that was messed
00:54<mdz>if you have file corruption, you should run debsums to make sure nothing else is broken
00:55<dwmurphy>yes.. i should ;) i'll get around to it later.. i pretty much fix things as i stumble over them :)
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00:56<Chutt>mdz, you notice i made tv_grab_uk just use the generic config?
00:57<mdz>Chutt: no, I've been away since friday
00:57<Chutt>just did that today
00:57<mdz>and am leaving for a few more days tomorrow
00:57<mdz>I haven't even looked at my mythtv mail yet
00:57<Chutt>as usual, most of it's pretty worthless
00:57<bline>anyone know what the shrinking affect on tvout's is called? When the picture isn't very bright it shrinks.
00:57<mdz>tv_grab_uk is the one where somebody made a patch but apparenlty it never went into xmltv, right?
00:58<Chutt>mdz, yeah
00:58<mdz>so setup was trying to use options which only existed in the patched version
00:58<Chutt>bline, poor color temperature holding?
00:58<Chutt><-- making stuff up
00:58<bline>I'm just trying to search google to find more information about it and why it does what it does.
00:59<Chutt>one of my monitors (very cheap off brand) does that
00:59<bline>my tv does that, and I think most people's do.
00:59<bline>I read a post somewhere that said higher end tv's don't
01:01<Chutt>why would you store static, non-changing data in the db?
01:01<dwmurphy>hmm.. mythbackend is complaining that i don't have a capture card defined. i don't have one yet (wanted to get software installed first). is there a way around this?
01:02<Chutt>you don't need to run mythbackend if you're not going to record anything.
01:03<dwmurphy>so is it possible to run mythweb (for example) to browse listings without it?
01:04<Chutt>what would the point of that be?
01:04<dwmurphy>well, none.. i just wanted to test it :)
01:04<dwmurphy>i'm getting a card tomorrow
01:06<dwmurphy>ah.. there we go. i can define a card, to get it to run
01:07<mdz>mythepg should work without a backend if you want to browse listings
01:07<mdz>it did the last time I tried it anyway
01:07<Chutt>unless the icons aren't available on that frontend
01:07<Chutt>so it'd try to contact the backend
01:08<mdz>might as well go to instead
01:08<Chutt>pretty much
01:09<dwmurphy>yeah.. well.. i just wanted to test things before shelling out money on a card. but i'm pretty happy with what i have, so I'll finish this up tomorrow night
01:10<Chutt>mdz, i'm doing my first non-debian install in a long time right now
01:10<Chutt>feels... icky
01:10<mdz>red hat?
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01:11<mdz>I thought their installer was supposed to be nice
01:11<Chutt>i didn't get to use the graphcal installer
01:11<Chutt>did a http install
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01:11<Chutt>the text installer wasn't bad at all, though
01:13<dwmurphy>anyway.. thanks for all the help guys. really appreciate it
01:20<mdz>it's been a long time since I installed red hat
01:20<mdz>I've installed Windows more than red hat
01:25<Chutt>well, it was this or mandrake
01:25<xantus^>how is the HD-2000 guys?
01:25<Chutt>or suse, but i didn't consider that an option
01:28<Timon>Chutt: How'd you get my last name? "Dan Morphis submitted a large set of changes that significantly enhance the LCD panel support, allowing better navigation of menus and control of MythMusic than before."
01:28<Chutt>the email you sent with the patch?
01:28<Timon>It should be Dan M
01:29<Chutt>i'm just going by the from :p
01:29<Chutt>i can change that if you'd like
01:29<Timon>From is Dan M
01:29<Timon>No, I just was supprised to see Dan Morphis
01:29<xantus^>too late
01:29<xantus^>we know who you are and are coming for you
01:29<Chutt>timon, maybe you sent it from a different account that time?
01:30<Timon>Nope, I have a copy of the email, I save all my patches. From is DanM
01:30* paulproteus grins
01:31<Timon>Its not a big deal, I'm just curious how someone got my last name when I don't usually give it out.
01:31<tmk>chutt's secretly stalking you
01:32<Timon>heh, he's after my rugged good looks ;-)
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01:39<sc00p_>hmm, compiling mythdvd I'm getting a lot of undefined references to snd_pcm_* ... I compiled mythtv with native alsa support, could that be the problem?
01:42* bline sees the need for a myth_config program to print compile options
01:44<sc00p_>ok, thanks
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02:24<linagee>theres no way i can play nupplevideo on windows, is there...
02:26<paulproteus>linagee: ffmpeg ?
02:26<paulproteus>ffdshow, rather
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02:39<Timon>I'd never make it though my homework with out beer.
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03:15<absurdhero>i just kindof guessed that the channel was here before doing an in depth check on :)
03:16<absurdhero>anyone have any experience with HDTV?
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05:31<engie>Hi. Is it possible to set what codec myth encodes at for livetv & archiving? I'm thinking divx here. If so, would an athlon 2500+ cope?
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10:21<o_cee>Chutt: don't know if you saw it earlier, but i fixed my problem. if you're intrested in the cause and a good way to "fix" it, let me know, it's a matter of gui design (pretty much).
10:28<o_cee>it was a stupid misstake. i've setup the LiveTV profile properly with uhm.. 720x578 (right?) PAL.. the problem was that the "Default" profile was 768x578 (it was invalid). (1) Default could be named "Recording", would make more sense. (2). Instead of the "advanced" type of setting the resolution, predefined values would be nice, like "PAL Hi Quality" "PAL Low Quality" "NTSC High" and so on.. of course, it should be possible to set it custo
10:29<Chutt>oh, so basically you didn't read the docs
10:29<o_cee>i did not realise what the Default profile was used for in the first place.
10:29<Chutt>it's talked about in the documentation.
10:30<o_cee>*phone* brb
10:32<o_cee>a well designed program shouldn't need any kind of documentation. with an application this big, of course, that's not possible. but things _could_ be more self explaining. like, you have help texts, right? why do you have that if you reject everything with: "read the docs"? i'm just trying to give you an idea how me, as a new user, sees things.
10:33<o_cee>see things.
10:33<Chutt>if you, as a new user, want to contribute code to make things work that way
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10:33<Chutt>that'd be nice
10:33<o_cee>i also realise that, but don't you consider this kind of input valuable in any way?
10:34<Chutt>not really, no
10:34<o_cee>ok. that's why i asked in the first place, since i pretty much thought so.
10:34<Chutt>honestly, i don't really care if anyone else uses it
10:34<o_cee>heheh, i've noticed.
10:35<o_cee>it's a great application, you've done a really stunning work.
10:35<Chutt>feedback from people telling me how things should work without code implementing things is useless to me
10:35<o_cee>just to let you know, i'm not complaining. i'm trying to help in the way i can.
10:35<Chutt>i have plenty of things i want to work on
10:37<o_cee>the easiest way to help stupid people like me on the resolution setup would be to have a helptext at the bottom.. but i'll commit patches as soon as i can contribute in that way :)
10:39<o_cee>what kind of future plans have you got for myth anyway?
10:43<Chutt>the pvr-350 decoder
10:44<Chutt>and rework the recording profiles for near future changes
10:44<o_cee>didn't think that was possible..? isn't its mpeg decoder of the same type as a Hollywood+? or will all GUI be converted to mpeg frames first?
10:45<o_cee>rework the recording profiles? heheh, i just gave you suggestions ;)
10:45<Chutt>no, it's not
10:45<o_cee>oh, thought it was the same stupid type.
10:45<Chutt>i'm not touching the resolution stuff, since that works fine as is
10:46<Chutt>the pvr-350 can work as a normal framebuffer
10:46<Chutt>you can display anything you want on it, without conversion to mpeg
10:46<o_cee>i can't find anything in the docs mentioning that the Default profile is the one used for recordings..
10:46<o_cee>oh, cool
10:48<o_cee>what about the xvmc support? how much would that be able to reduce cpu usage?
10:48<Chutt>on my gf4-ti4200
10:48<Chutt>it _adds_ to cpu usage
10:48<o_cee>that's bad :)
10:49<Chutt>that's why i haven't tried to figure out how to make the osd work yet
10:49<o_cee>but it's supposed to reduce cpu usage, right? like an mpeg decoder?
10:49<Chutt>yeah, it's supposed to off-load some bits of the decoding to the video card
10:50<o_cee>okay, sounds good anyway.. maybe it's the drivers
10:50<o_cee>have you looked at the bootsplash images?
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10:52<o_cee>maybe i should put up a screenshot.. haven't got any digital camera thou
10:54<o_cee>gotta run for now, thanks for your time. ttyl
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11:28<TheWildgoose>Hi folks
11:29<TheWildgoose>Isaac, not sure what else has passed by on the list
11:29<TheWildgoose>Out ISP seems to be stuffed up at the moment and stuff is taking a good hour to be delivered
11:29<Chutt>i don't understand why static data that's not being changed should go into the database
11:29<Chutt>that just slows stuff down.
11:29<TheWildgoose>It may be that there is some delay on your end as well?? Hard to see
11:29<Chutt> had a slight problem, yeah
11:30<TheWildgoose>Sorry, what do you mean by slows it down?
11:30<Chutt>it's fixed now, though
11:30<Chutt>database hits aren't instantaneous
11:30<Chutt>memory accesses pretty much are.
11:30<TheWildgoose>Are we still going to be storing the channel data in the DB?
11:31<TheWildgoose>Seems that if we are then we will be hitting the DB anyway?
11:31<Chutt>that's a per-user setting
11:31<TheWildgoose>We can cache it for sure
11:31<Chutt>and it's written to the db
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11:31<Chutt>this other crap isn't ever written _anywhere_ but the insert script
11:31<TheWildgoose>OK, lets be clear about which bit is crap though
11:31<Chutt>all the tables that are being pre-initialized in the insert script
11:32<TheWildgoose>are we all happy with the user tables like the mappings between cards, cams, etc
11:32<Chutt>those have to go into the db
11:32<TheWildgoose>ok, so we are talking about the language table, the list of satellites, and the list of encyption systems
11:32<o_cee>can the channel logos be in png with transparency?
11:32<TheWildgoose>cool - I think that is being nit picked elsewhere so just want to be clear on that
11:32<Chutt>stuff that's not being modified has no place in there, imo
11:32<Chutt>o_cee, sure
11:33<TheWildgoose>ok, where would you prefer them to be first?
11:33<o_cee>great. looked awfull in jpeg without trans. :)
11:33<Chutt>they're all just gif/jpg for now
11:33<Chutt>since that's what we get from zap2it
11:33<Chutt>thewildgoose, see how the analog frequency tables work
11:33<o_cee>oh, i don't get channel logos automatically
11:33<TheWildgoose>ok, bear with me for a few mins
11:34<Chutt>i really don't see the foreign key argument, so don't try that :p
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11:46<TheWildgoose>Hi Chutt, back again
11:46<TheWildgoose>you there?
11:46<TheWildgoose>I have looked at the code for the analogue channels.
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11:47<TheWildgoose>I can't quite see if you are loading the data once
11:47<Chutt>i'm not loading it at all
11:47<Chutt>it pulls the actual frequency out of the desired struct
11:47<TheWildgoose>but I assume that you are referring me to the shed load of enums in videodev_myth.h?
11:47<Chutt>no, i'm referring to frequency.c/.h
11:47<TheWildgoose>hmm, can you point me to what you mean?
11:47<TheWildgoose>will have a look
11:47<TheWildgoose>wait a sec
11:47<Chutt>it's just a bunch of static tables.
11:48<Chutt>channel number -> frequency mappings for the various locations
11:48<TheWildgoose>ok got it
11:48<TheWildgoose>how often do you hit the DB though when the channel changes?
11:48<Chutt>every time
11:48<TheWildgoose>I see what you are doing here
11:49<Chutt>it's static data that doesn't change often
11:49<TheWildgoose>as in: I DO see what you are doing here
11:49<Chutt>(the stuff in frequency.c/.h)
11:49<TheWildgoose>how static does static have to be though?
11:49<Chutt>just like those tables that are being preloaded with data in that patch
11:49<Chutt>how often will things change?
11:49<TheWildgoose>For the tuning stuff this is really set in stone, it is REALLY static
11:50<TheWildgoose>hmm, let me have a look again
11:50<TheWildgoose>at the tables we are talking about
11:50<Chutt>it's not, really, it's been updated two or three times in the past year :p
11:51<TheWildgoose>crypt is unlikely to "change" I think (need to check with someone like Kenneth), but it will probably get added too from time to time
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11:52<TheWildgoose>the key is arbitrary is the main thing
11:53<TheWildgoose>providers is similar, it will likely be added to, however, the key looks like it matches against something external
11:53<Chutt>right, but from that standpoint, there's absolutely no difference if it's in a lookup table in the source or in a table in the db
11:53<Chutt>ah well
11:54<TheWildgoose>languages is part finished, I suspect that will change during development, don't know after that
11:54<Chutt>i'm really just tempted to dump the dvb junk all together. i really don't want to deal with immature people like ramon anymore
11:55<TheWildgoose>in fact not really sure where languages is going really. (If you speak english it tends to be really easy to forget about other languages...!)
11:55<TheWildgoose>hmm, well you can certainly ditch the DVB stuff if you like - its your project after all
11:56<Chutt>it's very frustrating to comment on someone's stuff that they _asked_ for comments on
11:56<Chutt>and then get sarcastic remarks
11:56<Chutt>and threats that they're going to stop working on things
11:57<TheWildgoose>Assuming that you aren't going to this afternoon though, then I would just like to try and smooth things over and try to get some development going....(sorry you are typing ahead of me here, looks like I am replying to the wrong thing)
11:57<Chutt>it certainly doesn't help that he can barely understand english
11:57<TheWildgoose>ok, reply to the last part
11:57<TheWildgoose>yep, certainly doesn't. However, I guess that's the great thing about open source brings all kinds of people to the melting pot
11:58<TheWildgoose>I sense you are not having a good day so far, so I don't want to push things here
11:58<Chutt>i'm having a fine day
11:58<TheWildgoose>I'm happy to sit on this for a bit longer, it's not going anywhere after all
11:58<TheWildgoose>ok cool
11:58<TheWildgoose>so status right now is just: what to do with the three tables above yeah
11:59<TheWildgoose>you would like them in static structures in the code yeah
11:59<Chutt>ah, whatever
11:59<Chutt>put em in the database
11:59<TheWildgoose>hang on phone call
11:59<Chutt>just make sure they're prefixed with dvb_
11:59<Chutt>and i'm not going to commit _any_ tables to the db that aren't being used anywhere
11:59<Chutt>so the whole point's moot for now =)
12:05<TheWildgoose>back again.
12:06<TheWildgoose>Hang, on a tick. I'm not trying to bully something in by the back door! If you want the stuff in structs then I'm sure that we can work with that.
12:06<Chutt>i don't really feel like arguing about it anymore
12:06<TheWildgoose>The main thing I'm actually trying to get past anyway is just the wretched pid column renaming that Ramon and Ben were banging heads over
12:07<TheWildgoose>sure, sorry wasn't trying to argue
12:07<Chutt>the renaming that would've taken a whole 5 minutes?
12:07<TheWildgoose>kind of.
12:07<TheWildgoose>Anyway, I think we finally have that resolved now, so thanks
12:11<TheWildgoose>ok, so the punchline is: I re-submit that mini patch with lookup tables missing and to be done as structs? Channel Lists to be removed for now because it isn't being used just yet. And can I have a word with Kenneth about whether the Satellite table should go in the DB or in a struct, but take on board that you prefer the struct
12:11<TheWildgoose>Does that sound fine?
12:11<Chutt>just put it all in the db
12:11<TheWildgoose>or rather is that what you just said?
12:12<Chutt>but i won't be adding the tables yet, until there's code to use them
12:12<TheWildgoose>OK, great. I will go and re-prepare my patch
12:12<Chutt>so just the pids stuff for the patch
12:12<Chutt>and i'll get that committed whenever you send it
12:12<TheWildgoose>ok, just pids stuff coming up
12:13<Chutt>oh, and people are _not_ supposed to be using mysql -f to update with cvs.sql
12:13<TheWildgoose>There were comments to that effect at the top
12:14<TheWildgoose>So better to use if statements to prevent stuff failing?
12:14<Chutt>that was a special case
12:14<Chutt>it's better to have things in order so that it quits when it's changed everything that it needs to be changed
12:14<TheWildgoose>That seems to be mysql specific, I'm not clear on the syntax, but I can look it up
12:15<TheWildgoose>Whats the best way to handle a col rename, but add it if it doesn't exist then?
12:15<TheWildgoose>can you do an IF easily?
12:15<Chutt>what's it renaming?
12:15<Chutt>stuff that was only added in ramon's patch before?
12:16<Chutt>i'd just leave that out
12:16<TheWildgoose>Just trying to cover up for the existing patch which already created apids and vpids
12:16<Chutt>if people went and added non-official patches to their setup, they can fix things manually
12:17<TheWildgoose>OK, well I am technically at work here right now (although I am at home today). I better get back and do some ... Patch will be prepared in a couple of hours time (it's just going to be a case of cutting down the existing commit anyway)
12:18<TheWildgoose>I will check whether Ben also wants his pids_ac3 col as well
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12:23<TheWildgoose>oh nearly forgot. Presume I should rename the channels table to dvb_channels rather than channels_dvb yes?
12:24<TheWildgoose>Personally I would quite like to see say "gallery_" for the gallery related tables, and so on to make it easier to see what is going on. Happy in fact to pitch in and make those changes on some of the smaller projects as well
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12:33<Chutt>i think the existing tables are fine
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12:40<o_cee>Chutt: hehhe, you're gonne get pissed at me again now :)
12:41<o_cee>but i just tried a transparent png, and it works great. but in the EPG, the picture that appears in the upper left corner when you select a channel is behaving odd, it gets a black background. it works everywhere else (what i've seen so far at least)..
12:42* o_cee hides
12:42<Chutt>the black background is in the theme.
12:42<o_cee>oh, hmm, okay. looked kinda odd.
12:42<o_cee>then i guess it's ok :)
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12:48<o_cee>just gotta remember to run mythfilldatabase with --update
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13:10<mechou>anybody know what's the command to revert ("unapply") a patch?
13:10<Chutt>patch -R
13:11<mechou>just to confirm: patch -R file.diff ?
13:13<choenig>hi mechou, did my patch break everything? ;-)
13:13<Chutt>mechou, same way you applied it, just with a -R in there
13:13<mechou>hy choenig, didn't realize ur here...
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13:14<mechou>teah, I don't know what happened, but permissions got fubared
13:15<mechou>"$mythbackend" : can't write to /var/video (happens to be world writable)
13:16<mechou>"#mythbackend":can't open mythDB, user root no password or some such thing....
13:16<choenig>but thats not because of my patch ?!
13:17<mechou>choenig, I dunno, myth worked fine befor I applied the patch....
13:18<choenig>as I said, I didn't test with 0.11, but there is nothing that it shouldn't work
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13:19<mechou>choenig, np, just giving some initial feedback....
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13:19<choenig>what are the exact error massages?
13:20<mechou># mythbackend
13:20<mechou>Unable to connect to database!
13:20<mechou>Driver error was [1/-1]:
13:20<mechou>QMYSQL3: Unable to connect
13:20<mechou>Database error was:
13:20<mechou>Access denied for user: 'root@192.168.xx.xx' (Using password: YES)
13:20<mechou>couldn't open db
13:21<mechou>Starting up as the master server.
13:21<mechou>Probed: /dev/video - Television
13:21<mechou>Probed: /dev/video - Composite1
13:21<mechou>Probed: /dev/video - S-Video
13:21<mechou>Probed: /dev/video - Composite3
13:21<mechou>Unable to write to /var/video
13:21<mechou>Check to make sure that this directory exists and is writeable by this user.
13:21<mechou>open lockfile: Success
13:21<choenig>you're using stock 0.11?
13:22<mechou>oops, 8 lines or so before the last output should read "$mythbackend"
13:22<mechou>actuall .11 cvs +1 day....
13:23<choenig>but the patch applied cleanly, right?
13:23<mechou>yep, patch appled clean, no *.rej
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13:25<choenig>and /var/video is the place where your recordings are, right? did you run the setup again or stuff?
13:26<mechou>choenig, yeah...although I didn't run setup...shouldd I have?
13:27<choenig>yes, you should have done. though that shouldn't be a big problem
13:27<mechou>choenig, mean it *should* have worked even if I didn't run setup, right?
13:27<choenig>first try to run setup/setup with the new settings, if that doesn't fix the problem (and a do believe it doesn't) unapply the patch, compile and test egain
13:28<choenig>mechou: set the new stuff in setup->general ... to your needs
13:31<mechou>choenig, I'm in setup now, can I just leave the wakeup bland for now? I figured out my MBE (K75SA) wol only works with pci, not onboard, need to go buy a new NIC....
13:31<mechou>plus I haven compile nvram-wake yet....
13:31<choenig>yes, you can, but
13:32<choenig>but set the timing options
13:33<mechou>hmm, where exactly is that?
13:33<choenig>one before the sql wakeup stuff
13:35<mechou>ok, idle=0, wait=5, startup=120, do I need increase idle?
13:35<choenig>idle=0 means disable. to use it increase it, but it should work with idle=0
13:36<mechou>ok, I'm using those initial values I gave you then
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13:37<mechou>hmm, same dealio. choenig, you want me to make distclean, ./configure, make and all that again?
13:38<choenig>yes, try that
13:39<mechou>choenig, probably take 15min...brb....
13:40<TheWildgoose>has anyone played with ccache? It makes a big difference to my compile times here (of myth amongst other things). Just wondering if anyone had found it caused any probs though?
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13:41<choenig>mechou: is it possible, that the new install has overwritten your mysql.txt containing your mysql settings?
13:41<mechou>no, I changed it.
13:41<choenig>and you didn't mistake the pw? ;)
13:41<mechou>after make install, that is...
13:42<choenig>so, mysql -uroot -p works with that password? ok
13:42<mechou>yeah, sure enough
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13:48<choenig>mechou: I have absolutely no idea what happens there. Does a 'mythbackend --printsched' do something reasonable?
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13:49<mechou>choenig, yeah, I seem to get reasonable output....
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13:50<choenig>and ther is no database error before?
13:51<mechou>no, no db error. you got me there. and that using $mythbackend --printsched
13:52<mechou>actuall, there seem to be some errors, but I'm not sure db related. "Missing: 1 in tvList" \nMissing: 2 in tvList" repeated many times....
13:52<choenig>yeah, got that, too, don't know what that is eitcher
13:55<mechou>but if I'm root and do "mythbackend --printsched" it can't open db
13:56<choenig>but if you do 'mythbackend' as nonroot, you got the errors, too?
13:57<mechou>no, then it's fine, got output....
13:58<choenig>but you run the backend as root normaly? or only now?
13:59<mechou>normall I run MBE as root with initscript. Since I applied your patch, I tried w/user and root
14:01<choenig>so, it would be nice to see if unapplying my patch would solve the problem
14:02<mechou>I'll do that as soon as I finish recompiling your patch....
14:02<choenig>did the recompile finish already?
14:02<mechou>maybe another 5min and it should be finished....
14:06<choenig>hmm, using 0.11 here I get the same errors if I don't have a mysql.txt in ~/.mythtv/ . with cvs I don't have that!
14:08<mechou>ok, root works now for some reason. user still complains about not being able to write /var/video
14:08<mechou>this is w/you patch, choenig.
14:09<choenig>but, as you always run it as root, you're sure it ever worked as nonroot?
14:09<choenig>ok :-)
14:09<mechou>yeah, I'm sure before it worked as non-root.
14:10<o_cee>why the hell does mplayer complain over a missing cups file? why would it need cups?
14:10<o_cee>mplayer: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
14:10<mechou>to print out the songs :))
14:10<o_cee>it's redicoulus
14:11<o_cee>i've recompiled mplayer as well
14:11<choenig>mechou: you now can either test, if my patch works at all by setting idle to something like 40 or so and setting the serverhaltcommand to something like "echo 'juhu, it works' "
14:12<choenig>or you can try to get nvram-wakeup to work
14:13<o_cee> <-- isn't even mentioned there..
14:13<mechou>choenig, do you know what nvram tools are out ther besides nvram-wake?
14:14<choenig>I only know of nvram-wakeup and
14:14<choenig>the second have your board listed
14:16<choenig>wow, that is only a single c file :)
14:17<sfr>Chutt ?
14:19<sfr>Chutt: unless you have some more compl^W err, improvements to my patch i'll send you an updated one with fixFilename() restored, ok?
14:20<sfr>so nothing else i should fix?
14:20<Chutt>not that i know of
14:31<mechou>ok, choenig, so a normal user still doesn't work with /video dir w/patch. I tried unpatching and both root (db) and normal user (video dir) works....
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14:36<choenig>mechou: what keeps you from using current cvs?
14:36<tmk>how can i tell xmltv to update today's listings
14:36<tmk>mythfilldatabase seems to start with tomorrow's
14:36<tmk>and says that data already exists for today
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14:37<mechou>choenig, nothing, just don't want to recompile all the time, if you know what I mean. After all, I like to be able to watch some tv....
14:37<choenig>hehe :-)
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14:39<choenig>could you send me your patched programms/mythbackend/{main.cpp+scheduler.cpp} + libs/libmyth/mythcontext.cpp ?
14:40<mechou>choenig, you just want the patched *.cpp,*.h files?
14:41<choenig>just to verify that the patch did come out the way it should
14:41<choenig>as I said, I have absolutely no idea what could be causing that
14:41<mechou>ok, give me a few minutes...I'll let you know when I've sent them....
14:46<mikegrb>tmk: off hand I don't know that it is possible to force it though it may, as a command line option... I don't know the time that it uses but it seems that up to a certain time it will still get todays and then later in the day it goes to tommorow
14:48<mikegrb>tmk: you could probably run xmltv grabber directly and > listings.xml and then use mythfilldatabase --file to accomplish it
14:48<mechou>choenig, ok, I sent them off. You should be getting them shortly
14:49<mikegrb>tmk: the tv_grab_na script has command line options for specifying stuff such as just get today and to specify the config file (~/.mythtv/<sourcename>.xmltv instead of ~/.xmltv/config or some such)
15:01<choenig>mechou: ok, they look absolutely ok. now. from the beginning. you patched the directory you always use for your compile? you did a normal make install into the same dir you always used ?
15:02<mechou>I keep my souce in ~/Projects/cvsmythtv
15:03<mechou>cd ~/Projects/cvsmythtv; patch -p1 -b <diff; make distclean; ./configure; make; su; make install; change /usr/local/share/mysql.txt, restart mythbackend
15:06<choenig>also I don't know at all where that '$mythbackend' comes from
15:06<choenig>that were two diff'rent startups
15:06<mechou>yeah, sorry, too quick to paste....
15:08<tmk>mikegrb: turned out that the listings were correct as far as zap2it was concerned
15:08<tmk>FSW changed their channel-listings :<
15:08<tmk>and only reflected it on their site
15:10<mechou>choenig, I haven't looked at the source, but I've double checked at least twice now. w/o your patch, can access dir and db as any user. With your patch, user can't access video dir, root can't access db...
15:11<mechou>er, correction: root can't access db "reliably," i.e. sometime it can, sometimes it cant....
15:12<sfr>choenig: of course it works for you :)
15:12<choenig>is there a /var/lock/nfslockfile.lock belonging to root?
15:13<choenig>sfr: hmmm, sure it does :-)
15:13<choenig>mechou: if so, that could be the problem with the /var/lock stuff
15:14<choenig>ok, again: is there a /var/vide/nfslockfile.lock belonging to root?
15:14<mechou>no, not in /var/lock, but in /var/video
15:14<choenig>so remove it, and try to run as user again w/ patch
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15:16<mechou>choenig: well both root and user started ok this time, it seems....
15:17<choenig>wow, nice :-)
15:17<mechou>what's suppose to remove the lock?
15:17<choenig>I don't know
15:18<mechou>the lock file is always ther, it seems, even when I kill mythbackend
15:19<sfr>choenig: nobody does i guess. i still have such a file in my mythtv recordings directory dated 06/22
15:19<mechou>hmm, chutt, can you help us with the nfslock file question?
15:20* sfr reading Chutts thoughts : use the source mechou! :)
15:20<choenig>sfr: the problem with that is, why did it run as user w/o my patch, but it did'nt with
15:21<choenig>sfr: the source tells me, that it is never deleted, but used on every startup
15:23<choenig>ok, it does get 'unlinked'
15:23<sfr>choenig: but what is its purpose? too lazy to find out myself. my unqualified guess: old code
15:23<choenig>no, its used for nfs stuff
15:24<choenig>so that a slavebackend, which shares a nfs share, doesn't count the space double
15:24<mechou>yeah, except I'm not using NFS (at least not explicitly) in my case....
15:24<sfr>choenig: so it only counts the space, if it created the lockfile itself?
15:24<choenig>that doesn't matter, it always touches that file
15:25<choenig>sfr: no, it only counts the space, if its a master or stuff...
15:25<choenig>don't know excactly what it is douing
15:26<mechou>but why would the lock file inhibit root access to db?
15:26<sfr>mechou: did you switch using mythtv as root and as a user in the past?
15:26<choenig>mechou: I don't think that two problems are related
15:26<choenig>sfr: yes, he did
15:26<mechou>hmm? not related?
15:27<choenig>or does that work now, too?
15:27<mechou>user and root bot work now now that lock file is owned by user, not root
15:28<mechou>I run mythbackend as user for debugging, as root when a-ok...
15:28<choenig>ok, I cancel what I said and argue the converse ;)
15:29<sfr>mechou: you run myth as root? tsts, bad boy.
15:29<sfr>mechou: any reason for doing so?
15:30<mechou>of course, I can accomplish the same as normal user, but that's a PITA
15:31<sfr>mechou: this is no valid reason :) PITA? you could use debian :))
15:31<fulbert>I've just added mythmusic to my system, but I'm getting a problem when I try to configure it.
15:31<fulbert>it tells me the plugin is not initialized, anyone have pointers?
15:31<fulbert>Unable to initialize plugin 'mythmusic'.
15:31<fulbert>Unable to run plugin 'mythmusic': not initialized
15:32<fulbert>? I have mythweather and mythvideo running ok.
15:32<sfr>fulbert: compiled from source?
15:32<fulbert>yeah, cvs just a hour or so ago.
15:32<fulbert>with all the pre reqs too ;) took a while.
15:33<mechou>sfr, debaain is easy. I d'l knoppix and install on hard disk. Then run apt-get to customize. Instant debain system, fully configured and working....;))
15:33<sfr>fulbert: happens to me too :) i think i'm missing a 'make distclean' inside the mythmusic dir. anyone knows better?
15:34<fulbert>hmm. ok, at least I didn't break something. I've been reading the howto from the site and rebuilding it a few times thinking I missed something.
15:36<sfr>mechou: a knoppix hdd installation means bypassing the best part of debian :)
15:36<mechou>sfr: exactly :))
15:37<sfr>hm, i shouldn't say that. my last installation was > 1 year ago.
15:39<mikegrb>tmk: I hate when that happens :-/ Had it happen with three programs I was recording being switched around on the same channel... at least they all still got recorded but I'd start Futurama and it would be Family Guy and the like <g>
15:39<mikegrb>tmk: it was all better after about a week
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16:40<fulbert>I just installed the mythweb setup, and noted that under the "scheduled recordings" page it shows all the one time recordings from that past.
16:40<fulbert>shouldn't it remove those?
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17:15<brtb>anybody know if that new pchdtv card can tune _analog_ cable channels?
17:15-!-keturn [] has joined #mythtv
17:15<brtb>or does the site say somewhere and i'm just not seeing it
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18:00<linagee>does anyone know how to change the recording resolution or bitrate of mythtv + pvr250?
18:00<tmk>test_ioctl will change bitrate
18:00<linagee>right now, mine's doing 720x480 @ 16000mb/sec
18:00<tmk>resolution can be set within mythtv setup
18:00<linagee>tmk: so there's no mythtv control? it just stays at the default?
18:01<tmk>not for bitrate
18:02<tmk>myth will change the resolution tho
18:02<linagee>tmk: do you know if that stays over a reboot or do i have to add the test_ioctl line to my bootup scripts?
18:02<linagee>ah. :)
18:02<tmk>there is a utility called record-v4l2 i think
18:02<tmk>comes with ivtv
18:02<tmk>can be used to store settings
18:02<tmk>so you just run it and tell it to load a config file
18:02<linagee>is there something wrong with using test_ioctl?
18:02<linagee>oic. config file. hehe
18:03<tmk>most people prefer config files to long command-lines
18:03<linagee>tmk: right now on my piii-733, records just fine, using maybe 3% cpu. playback is terrible though. skips every once in a while. (and that's with my brand new geforce2 mx400)
18:03<linagee>tmk: i think it's a cpu thing. playing back in mythtv drains my cpu to 0% idle...
18:03<tmk>you have a pvr250?
18:03<tmk>i see
18:04<tmk>yeah isaac has it at like 480x480 with a 2.0/4.5 bitrate i think
18:04<tmk>my bad
18:04<linagee>so on playback, its just so high of resolution, or so high of bitrate, that my piii-733 + geforce2mx can't handle it. :)
18:04<Chutt>and, make sure that X isn't using cpu.
18:05<linagee>i'm not sure what the two numbers mean....
18:05<linagee>is it variable rate, between those two or something?
18:05<tmk>yeah 4.5 is base
18:05<tmk>6 is peak
18:06<linagee>that's what i though. :)
18:06<linagee>right now i'm at 16. lol
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18:06<tmk>8/16 i think
18:06<linagee>ah. probably the default. heh
18:06<tmk>yeah taht's the default
18:06<tmk>it's about 3.6 gb/hr at default settings
18:06<linagee>tmk: which is way too much for just tv time shifting. :)
18:07<tmk>yeah it is
18:07<linagee>tmk: just to view simpsons or something. lol
18:07<tmk>i still record at full size tho
18:07<linagee>full size = resolution or bitrate?
18:07<tmk>if i start to run out of space maybe i'll cut back
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18:07<linagee>8/16 and 720x480?
18:07<tmk>"high quality"
18:08<tmk>hey chutt: is there an option to automatically record certain shows but not keep the recordings?
18:08<linagee>tmk: yeah, but you probably have things running in a multigigahert or at least gigahert box, right? :)
18:08<tmk>nope, celeron 433
18:08<tmk>i have a pvr350 though, hardware decoding
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18:08<linagee>tmk: huh?? and playback is not jumpy?
18:09<linagee>pvr250. :-P
18:09<tmk>i don't watch live-tv :)
18:09<tmk>if i do, it's jumpy at 320x480
18:09<linagee>i'm going to use test_ioctl, record-v4l2 is odd. it's a bit more like a one time shot utility for recording things....
18:10<tmk>linagee: there's a settings-only mdoe
18:10<tmk>i think
18:10<tmk>i don't use it
18:11<linagee>tmk: besides, record-v4l2 fails because i don't have some frequency perl library. test_ioctl is already working fine. :)
18:11<tmk>test_ioctl -c bitrate=4500000,bitrate_peak=6000000
18:12<tmk>yeah i need to make the docs nicer for that perl stuff
18:12<tmk>you can get those from CVS
18:12<tmk>it's to tune channels and such
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18:16<linagee>tmk: you made the perl stuff? heheh
18:17<linagee>tmk: did you make the one that extracted the driver from the .exe too? lol
18:18<tmk>i wrote the driver
18:18<tmk>others did most of the utils
18:18<tmk>i wrote the original firmware extractor
18:18<tmk>but others made it better
18:20<tmk>hey chutt, does the transcoder guy hang out in here?
18:20<linagee>tmk: is the .exe file just a .zip or something? is that how that all works?
18:20<Chutt>geoffrey hausheer?
18:20<Chutt>not that i'm aware of
18:20<tmk>linagee: yeah
18:20<linagee>tmk: ah
18:21<linagee>tmk: awesome. network bandwidth went down due to the lower bitrate. :)
18:21<linagee>tmk: btw..........
18:22<linagee>tmk: i'm using a smbfs for mythtv. hehehe
18:22<linagee>tmk: kind of messy, cause the connection dies sometimes. if you retry the file operation, it keeps working again
18:22<linagee>tmk: so i wrote a cron job that ls-es the samba share every few minutes. very very messy. :-P
18:29<Chutt>i wouldn't use smbfs
18:29<Chutt>seeing as it's limited to 2 GB files.
18:31<linagee>Chutt: it is?!
18:35<Rule>NFSv3 would be ok
18:38<linagee>argh. smbfs is skippy even at low bitrate. :(
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18:39<Rule>its not the most efficient protocol
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18:39<linagee>Rule: i told it to buffer, but it's still skippy
18:39<PeteCool>Chutt: seeking while paused seems to have been borken in the past week or so
18:42<linagee>not enough free buffers.... :(
18:43<linagee>ivtv: not enough free buffers, stream 0
18:43<tmk>that jsut means it skiped a frame
18:43<tmk>and it's normal to get those when closing
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18:44<linagee>tmk: no. it's doing it repeatedly. over and over
18:44<tmk>what are you using to watch
18:44<linagee>tmk: broken like
18:44<tmk>what player? mythv?
18:44<linagee>tmk: its dumping out on my screen making it impossible to do anything else
18:44<linagee>tmk: yes
18:45<tmk>killall -9 mythbackend
18:45<PeteCool>Chutt: what could I do to help fix that? bt?
18:46<linagee>tmk: it was after i killed mythtvfrontend that it stopped
18:46<linagee>i have it set to
18:46<linagee>ivtv mpg_buffers=100
18:46<tmk>wow that's pretty high
18:46<tmk>did you get any errors on load
18:46<tmk>about 'couldn't allocate buffer'
18:47<linagee>tmk: what should it be set to? somewhere between 15 and 100....
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18:47<tmk>default is about a second's worht of video
18:54<tmk>~10 buffers per second, so 100 should be 10 seconds of data
18:55<tmk>so either something's really broken with myth
18:55<tmk>or you're having memory issues :)
18:55<linagee>just left it at default now
18:55<linagee>tmk: i've installed from deblian sources. :)
18:56<tmk>well good luck
18:56<tmk>i'm off for now
18:57<linagee>tmk: later
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19:07<restless1>hello. I just installed mythtv on gentoo. I'
19:08<restless1>m running mythsetup and i can't move off of the "1.". am I missing something?
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19:24<linagee>how do i tell mythtv not to put the preview video in the playback menu?
19:24* linagee tries to remember the right menu...
19:25<linagee>ah. found it. nevermind. :)
19:25<mikegrb>linagee: Setup -> TV -> General -> First Screen
19:26<sfr>Chutt ?
19:26<linagee>mikegrb: yep. thanks. :)
19:28<linagee>argh. my computer keeps going to 0% idle. :(
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19:55<thor_>Who are these people signed is "isaac_", "isaac__
19:56<thor_>they could at least spoof his name better ?
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20:00<Chutt>hey thor
20:01<thor_>Any thoughts on the "there should be one playback dialog" thing?
20:01<Chutt>not yet
20:02<Chutt>i do think that mythdvd and mythvideo (the UIs, at least), could be combined pretty easily
20:02<just1nux>Chutt, did you ever see about that issue with the scheduler? I tried switching the order of everythign but it appears that as long as the first card is using the second input (s-video in this case) then it refuses to schedule on the third card.
20:03<thor_>would really like to see the interface get stupider
20:03<Chutt>just1nux, i haven't had time to look into it, really
20:03<thor_>stored content --> play
20:03<thor_>new content --> schedule
20:03<Chutt>thor, i do think that the different media types should be presented differently
20:04<Chutt>though, it really wouldn't be difficult to have them all in one big tree
20:04<sfr>Chutt, hope you also didn't had time to check your inbox. Forget about my mail, i'll send you a better version.
20:04<thor_>but one dialog
20:04<Chutt>sfr, heh, sorry, i did get it, but i haven't even looked at things yet
20:05<sfr>Chutt, so just hit d then :)
20:06<thor_>Chutt, it would be much better for theme writers to limit the dialogs
20:06<thor_>so ... one "playing dialog" that accepts arguments
20:07<thor_>for new users, they would have their tree clipped to relevant subtrees
20:07<thor_>but the same basic stuff
20:07<Chutt>i dunno
20:07<thor_>play, stop, pause, next, up tree, down tree, etc.
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20:08<thor_>given the db structure in place, it will be easy to throw out a prototype and argue over that
20:09-!-sfr [] has left #mythtv [""night""]
20:09<thor_>let me finish a few MythMusic/MythDVD/MythVideo things, get back from vacation, and offer up an example
20:10<thor_>great, otherwise ... all is well ?
20:22<thor_>ahhhh e-mail venom
20:26<PeteCool>Chutt: is it possible the "trick-play" patch screwed with the seeking-as-paused?
20:26<Chutt>quite possibly.
20:29<robertj>Chutt: can I convert myth video to divx?
20:31<robertj>or even something more bandwith hungry?
20:32<Chutt>check the mailing lists.
20:33<robertj>I've been reading up on mythtranscoder but I'm a bit muddy on the details
20:41<robertj>so if I enable transcoding will it spit out a standard mpeg or just a more effecient mythtv format?
20:45<thor_>robertj, a few minutes of experimentation while deliver all the answers you need. Alternatively, you could spend most of the rest of your natural life arguing about the definition of a "standard" mpeg ...
20:47<thor_>I'm about to sign off ... anyone got MythDVD/Video issues ?
20:50<robertj>thor_: not really, it's been pretty good here...if only mytharcade would be as well behaved everything would be good
20:51<robertj>but instead it insists on starting the thing full screen in such a manner as forces an invalid video mode. I'll get around to writing a shell script that extracts the rom name being called and runs xmame properly pretty soon, but its still a pain
20:52<thor_>oh crap ...
20:52<thor_>ah ....
20:53<thor_>Israeli air force raid ... just sonic booms ...
20:53<thor_>all is good
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21:37* bbeattie thwacks himself
21:38* paulproteus eyes bbeattie
21:38<bbeattie>I just ordered a keyboard.. but forgot the address I put in was bogus because I was just looking at the product. When I came back 6 hours later to buy it, I put in the billing info and bought it.. And there isn't a "cancel order option"
21:38<paulproteus>bbeattie: Call them.
21:38<bbeattie>I did,
21:39<paulproteus>I bought an Xbox-designed remote control for my Xbox.
21:39<paulproteus>And it's DOA.
21:39<paulproteus>But I'm leaving for Univ. tomorrow...
21:39<bbeattie>left a message, but I wonder who likes at 'ff ff city of ff, state utah zip 084042, who will be getting it) ;)
21:39<paulproteus>...the Myth box is for my parents...
21:40<mechou>bbeattie, hopefully if you paid by CC they won't ship it (unless your cc billing address is bogus too)
21:41<bbeattie>the billing address _is_ correct. :)
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21:42<mechou>well they you can always say you never got it, which is true....
21:42<bbeattie>The company appears to be small, and it's a company who works with yahoo, so I'm sure they'll catch the problem.
21:43<bbeattie>bad thing is they didn't have a verify page..
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21:53<kja>Chutt: Can you confirm that it's just the removal of the #if that is needed?
21:56<linagee>Chutt: why does my system keep skipping so much? recording at 4500 kb/s 480x480 on a 733piii w/pvr250. recording goes supersmooth. playback keeps taking 100% cpu time. (with a geforce2 mx400 card...)
21:56<linagee>Chutt: using nvidia drivers
21:58<kja>linagee: Sure you got agp working right?
21:59<linagee>kja: yes. and i tried using agpgart and nvidia's agp thing. no real change in video skipping amount
22:00<linagee>kja: i even tried lowering the bitrate. :( still 100% cpu usage
22:00<kja>linagee: how much cpu does only recording take?
22:00<linagee>kja: about 3%. pvr250 works great
22:00<kja>linagee: and have you checked the X log for signs that agp is really working
22:00<linagee>sometimes 1%, sometimes 2%
22:01<kja>could also check the status file in /proc/driver/nvidia/agp
22:03<kja>and do you have this in your modules.conf (warning: not all motherboards supports this, might make your system go unstable):
22:03<kja>add options nvidia NVreg_EnableAGPSBA=1
22:03<kja>add options nvidia NVreg_EnableAGPFW=1
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22:06<linagee>kja: interesting. i fiddled with the bios. now i'm 7% idle, 4% idle, 13% idle..
22:06<linagee>kja: i think i'm at the borderline for cpu requirements
22:06<kja>yea, I know...but that does not stop you right :)
22:07<linagee>kja: i need to get a new mobo/cpu once i get more money. :)
22:07<linagee>kja: luckily the record only works extremely well. :)
22:07<kja>do you have those modules.conf settings in you modules.conf? Might help a bit more..
22:09<linagee>the NVreg_EnableAGPSBA?
22:09<kja>yea, and the other
22:11<kja>dunno if your board supports it though, see status in /proc/driver/nvidia/agp
22:12<Chutt>kja, i think just removing that #if, and re-instating the other parts of the code that you removed
22:12<Chutt>'course, i don't _know_, but =)
22:13<kja>you thinking bout the avcodec stuff?
22:13<kja>was thinking of more along a two liner (the function receives full frames)
22:14<Chutt>if that's true, then it doesn't need to demux things
22:15<kja>k, so i just use the code as it is (remove #if)
22:15<linagee>kja: ahh. fastwrites and SBA is off in the /proc thing. :)
22:15<Chutt>you'd have to test, of course
22:15<kja>hmm, I'll test that!
22:15<Chutt>maybe a quick check to see if it's a video frame
22:18<kja>what would be the signature of video frame (if you don't know, I'll dig some more..)?
22:18<Chutt>i don't know right off
22:18<Chutt>should be in the first couple bytes of the packet, though
22:20<kja>i'll dig some, should not be hard to find out, and i get to learn some more bout libavcodec :)
22:21<kja>that would probably be more logical, yes, because that's where the demuxer is..
22:22<kja>better wait untill tomorrow, getting up early to pick up a couple of 80G maxtors :)
22:22<kja>so, nite all (it's bout 4:30 here)...
22:23<kja>And thanks a lot for your Help, Chutt!
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23:31<Captain_Murdoch>Chutt: you around?
23:41<Captain_Murdoch>sweet... I have station logo detection code working. so far it's correctly detected logos from USA network (transparent logo), Cartoon Network (adult-swim text opaque logo), and some from some german station that someone sent me a sample .nuv file from. checks the 4 corners of the screen. now I can use this info as to when the logo starts/stops to help eliminate false positives in the other detection methods.
23:41<Captain_Murdoch>:) 'sweet' wasn't to you.
23:42<Captain_Murdoch>what do you think about adding an option to allow the duplicate check code to ignore fields if they're blank. so if subtitle is always blank but description is filled in (and different) that it will see those as dups where now it doesn't.
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23:43<Chutt>how are you going to check if the description changes?
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>just adding another field. let me paste how the line of sql would look/change.
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>so this: oldrecorded.title IS NOT NULL AND oldrecorded.title <> '' AND program.title = oldrecorded.title
23:44<Captain_Murdoch>would change to something like this:
23:45<Captain_Murdoch>oldrecorded.title IS NOT NULL AND (record.emptyisdup != 1 OR oldrecorded.title <> '') AND program.title = oldrecorded.title
23:45<Captain_Murdoch>maybe not the exact right syntax but you get the idea.
23:45<Captain_Murdoch>sorry, record.emptyisdup = 1
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23:47<Chutt>i don't see what you're sayin
23:47<Chutt>and i'll be back in a few
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23:47<Captain_Murdoch>I can explain better later. I think it will work.
23:48<Captain_Murdoch>I've got 3 shows where I've got a cron job changing the subtitles because they aren't filled in at all ever but the descriptions always are.
23:50<linagee>argh. i hate getting to the end of live tv buffering only to be left in commercials-land. :(
23:51<Captain_Murdoch>linagee: so pause it and take a bathroom break. :)
23:53<linagee>Captain_Murdoch: LOL
23:54<linagee>Captain_Murdoch: well my new installation is working great anyhow. :)
23:58<Captain_Murdoch>I'd rather just watch stuff that's pre-recorded so I can skip commercials quicker.
23:59<linagee>Captain_Murdoch: exactly.
---Logclosed Wed Aug 27 00:00:21 2003