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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-09-07

---Logopened Sun Sep 07 00:00:32 2003
00:01<jbwiv>howdy all. Finally got my box (PVR-250. ATI Tv wonder) working. Everything looks GREAT, and I'm really impressed with mythtv overall. However, when watching live tv (and sometimes with recorded it seems), I get a jerkiness, or slowness, or something. Hard to describe. It's just obvious that there's a lag of sorts. I've tried toggling the jitter reduction and the interlacing (this is a tv, don't know if interlacing really effec
00:01<jbwiv>ts it anyway), but no luck. It's so imperceptible is get kinda irritating after awhile. Makes you feel like your slightly drunk ;-). Is there anything I can tweak to get rid of this problem?
00:01<jbwiv>Because when watching things like football and it seems a bit jerky, I'm wondering if it might be a frame rate issue. course, I could be off my rocker ;')
00:09<jbwiv>ok, well, it seems everyone's at the pub. If you have any ideas at all (when you get back) could you drop me an email at Thanks in advance for your help! I'm *almost* there ;-)
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00:15<jbwiv>hello :)
00:15<davipt>I have similar problems with a regular PC, I need to get a A/V disk ;)
00:17<jbwiv>a/v disk?
00:18<jbwiv>what's an a/v disk?
00:18<davipt>a disk that is not continually trying to calibrate itself (A/V = Audio/Video)
00:19<jbwiv>you mean you get quite a bit of disk activity?
00:19<davipt>no, I get quite a bit of disk peak activity without touching the disk, getting freezes in live tv
00:20<davipt>but I have a P3/650 and an old 8GB Maxtor hard disk ;)
00:20<jbwiv>ahh...that sux
00:20<jbwiv>different problem, but no less irritating I'm sure ;-)
00:21<Chutt>if you have an nvidia card, turn on the experimental a/v sync option.
00:21<Chutt>smooth video playback.
00:22<jbwiv>chutt: cool. I do. Let me give that a try!
00:22<jbwiv>be right back. thanks man....
00:27<jbwiv>Chutt: hmm....that may have made it worse...or maybe just no difference.
00:27<jbwiv>Chutt: is this a common thing?
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00:38<Chutt>it's common to all video players in X.
00:38<Chutt>the experimental a/v sync stuff only works for slightly older versions of the nvidia driver -- 4363, for instance.
00:38<davipt>enough for me, bye
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00:39<jbwiv>Chuptt: ok, I may try to drop down to that tomorrow and give it a try. I really appreciate it man...
00:39<kja>does mplayer also use the nvidia stuff for syncing?
00:39<Chutt>kja, no
00:39<Chutt>mplayer doesn't do anything at all :p
00:39<unmanaged>hello i have a few questions about getting the qt3 mysql drivers installed correctly...
00:40<Morph>mplayer, that lazy lay-about.
00:40<unmanaged>I have everything working but the sql driver
00:40<Chutt>morph, to answer your question, it's just doing the same stuff that via's hacked up xine is doing
00:40<unmanaged>and I am compiling the driver for the qt3 mysql stuff right now
00:41<Chutt>morph, so it needs the libddmpeg and the via kernel modules to work
00:41<Morph>Chutt: hmm okay..
00:41* Morph builds the latest CVS to test
00:42<Chutt>just edit and comment out the last couple lines
00:42<Chutt>before you build
00:42<jbwiv>Chutt thx again...the wife's calling so ii'm off, i appreciate the help!!!
00:42<Chutt>do a make clean if that tree's already been build before
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00:43* Morph hunts down libddmpeg..
00:44<Morph>got it someplace already
00:46<mdz>rkulagow: sorry I forgot to update the version number in the docs
00:46<mdz>I ought to automate that
00:46<_rkulagow>mdz: no biggy.
00:47<Chutt>rkulagow, i did update the docs, btw =)
00:48<_rkulagow>chutt: i noticed. thanks.
00:50<_rkulagow>did anything ever become of the "episode over-ride" that was discussed? you know, "record all showings" master setting and then selectively not record certain ones?
00:50<mdz>I talked a lot and didn't write any code
00:50<_rkulagow>have i ever mentioned that i hate lirc? because i do.
00:53<Morph>Chutt: you're using debian right?
00:53<Chutt>redhat 8 on my m10k
00:53<Chutt>installed it to get the hardware decoder stuff going
00:54<Morph>hmm okay.
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00:54<Chutt>just using their drivers, the full distribution
00:54<Chutt>their, meaning via
00:55<mikegrb>Chutt: have a chance to look at the xbox led stuff?
00:55<Chutt>mikegrb, no
00:55<mikegrb>okay, no biggie <g>
00:58<_rkulagow>chutt: have you thought about adding the "space free" bar to the "Watch Recording" screen and merging the "Watch Recording" / "Delete Recording" functions? I can't think of anything that differentiates the two other than that bar.
00:58<mikegrb>_rkulagow: the default action for space/return is different
00:59<mikegrb>_rkulagow: I just asigned the last key on my remote yesterday and I don't have a D key
01:02<Morph>hmm I think I might SOL since im not using red hat, mandrake or suse here.
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01:07<Morph>hmm maybe not.
01:08<Chutt>i _think_ you may be able to get it working with the libddmpeg that was reverse engineered and the epia kernel patch that someone put together on the viaarena forums
01:08<Morph>found that site.
01:09<mikegrb>Chutt: The xbox remote patch that has been on the mailing list supports mapping the keys at driver runtime via ioctl :-) Xbox support is going to have remote config in setup <g>
---Logclosed Sun Sep 07 01:15:40 2003
---Logopened Sun Sep 07 01:15:42 2003
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01:21<mikegrb> click on wiki
01:21<mikegrb>then main page
01:22<mikegrb>er sorry
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04:24<mcsmurf>shouldn't the mythfilldatabase combine the data with the channel table?
04:25<mcsmurf>because it just ignores the existing channels
04:25<mcsmurf>and creates new ones (which of course don't work becuase they have no channum)
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08:02<orangebits>How do the channel and channel_dvb tables relate in mythconverg?
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08:54<LoneTech>hello. I'm trying to get started with mpeg2 decoding on cle266 (via epia-m), but I get green and gray stripes. any tips?
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08:56<LoneTech>Chutt: drikus_ advised me to ask you about it..
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09:52<orangebits>Is there currently a good way to import a channels.conf into mythconverg?
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11:34<sfr>i have a question re: the Decoder class in mythmusic. Is it true that for each decoder (Vorbis,MAD...) 1x thread is started?
11:38<Chutt>sfr, every time a decoder is used, yes
11:41<sfr>i thought about using this as a guide to support misc. audio streams. does that make sense?
11:42<Chutt>how so?
11:44<sfr>like determining who should handle a given url when the stream format is known. And then starting a thread handling this url.
11:44<Chutt>ah, yeah
11:44<Chutt>that'd be appropriate
11:45<sfr>or, would the encoder class be more appropriate.
11:45<Chutt>naw, the decoder stuff would be better to copy
11:45<Chutt>with the base class handling selection of the actual class that gets instantiated
11:46<sfr>and _much_ more complicate. :( well, no deadline in sight at least.
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12:22<David>hmm.. i just started watching a video under myth video, and my remote stopped working :(
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12:47<David>excellent. fixed it
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13:03<krondor>I'm trying to transcode automagically after recording.. it apperas to work but if I tell it to be mpeg4 with mp3 compression I get no picture or audio in mplayer or mythtv.. if I tell it to leave audio uncompressed I get picture but no sound any ideas?
13:04<krondor>I'm using a pvr 250 so it's mpeg2 to start..
13:05<tmk>your output audio settings have to match the input ones i think
13:06<tmk>ie 16bit 48khz
13:06<tmk>mp2 384k
13:06<Chutt>you pretty much should be using current cvs to transcode pvr-250 mpeg2 files.
13:06<tmk>mo'nin chutt
13:07<krondor>hmm I tried the currect cvs yesterday but was getting other issues with it.. i could try again, sorry to bother you but I couldn't really find anyting on the mailing list.
13:07<Chutt>you didn't look very hard, then.
13:07<Chutt>that was all discussed a _lot_
13:07<Chutt>until it was fixed in cvs.
13:08<tmk>heh gotta love that phenomenon
13:08<krondor>ok thanks I'll upgrade to current cvs and hope I have better luck with it then yesterday :)
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13:10<tmk>what tool do i use to mark commercials? or undo automatic detection markings if they're wrong
13:12<Chutt>hit 'm' or 'e' during playback of a recording
13:13<Chutt>morph, i can verify that the source release of that via_v4l_drv doesn't work with the hardware decoder =)
13:13<Chutt>structure sizes are different
13:13<Morph>Chutt: that url that I pasted last night?
13:13<Chutt>when using it, don't get any video at all
13:14<Chutt>i did a not-so-quick kernel compile with all that
13:14<Morph>hmm. maybe that was the issue I had. I wouldnt get video via the pvr250 at all and screwy video using mplayer from mythvideo.
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13:16<Chutt>it'll also screw up the X drivers
13:16<Chutt>so =)
13:16<Morph>X overall looked "okay"
13:17<Morph>unless video playback was attempted :)
13:17<Chutt>the various drivers just don't match up
13:17<Chutt>like, CVS X doesn't have the exact same support as the libddmpeg decompile
13:18<Chutt>and the via_v4l_drv stuff is an older release, apparently
13:18<Morph>hrm. via. :)
13:19<Morph>Chutt: so you were getting live-tv playback just fine using VIA's modules? include videodev?
13:19<Chutt>i did a redhat 8 install just for all this stuff
13:20<Chutt>i am only using it as a remote frontend right now
13:20<Chutt>haven't tried to see if the ivtv drivers conflict or not yet
13:20<Chutt>but live-tv playback works great
13:20<Morph>hmm okay.
13:21<Morph>might try it again later.
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14:11<Morph>hmm different patch mentioned in VIA forums.
14:12<Morph>oh. nm. he's using the other guys V4L patch.
14:22<toe> cvs update deleted my toplevel do I get it back?
14:22<Chutt>i sent a message to both mailing lists about that
14:22<Chutt>and it was in the commit message.
14:22<toe>ah, k
14:22<term>Chutt: hey.
14:23<thor_>cross-posting bastard
14:23<Chutt>hey term
14:23<term>almost got this thing working
14:23<Chutt>that's me!
14:23<term>can't find much info on external channel changers though :(
14:23<Chutt>thor, so you're looking at that guy's mythvideo patches =)
14:24<Chutt>did you see his first one to use an alternate source for posters?
14:24<Chutt>i don't think you commented on that at all
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14:24<thor_>yup ... I'll give him a day or so to do the config thing, and then do it myself
14:24<thor_>ah, yeah ... the poster thing
14:24<thor_>saw it breifly
14:24<Chutt>i can commit the lirc support patch if you want
14:24<Chutt>since that's related..
14:24<Chutt>i dunno =)
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14:24<thor_>go ahead on lirc
14:25<thor_>let me look at the poster one
14:25<Chutt>just figured that you were the last person to touch all that stuff
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14:26<toe>whee, wonderful pro files
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14:29<mikegrb>CPU temperature: 45 °C - 113 °F
14:29<mikegrb>er wrong window
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14:37<thor_>Chutt, any problems with me commiting a brighter button_on.png for the blue theme
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14:37<Chutt>naw, go right ahead
14:38<thor_>cool .... hm now how does gimp work ....
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14:47<echo>anyone here using the pvr-250 card with mythtv?
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14:51<tmk>i am
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14:55<Morph>hmm. well thats just a big mess now.
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15:13<Morph>anyone tried the libddmpeg mentioned in the via forums?
15:13<Morph>that one.
15:14<Morph>how was it?
15:14<Chutt>works ok with via's binary modules
15:14<Chutt>doesn't work with the kernel patch
15:14<bbeattie>which module was it that was changed this last week and needs a database update?
15:14<Chutt>bbeattie, mythvideo
15:14<Morph>hmm. okay.
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15:15<toe>yeah - how goes that integration - I saw very +ve news in the mythtv news but I havent seen any updates in the docs that say how to make use of the decoder
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15:15<Chutt>toe, read the mailing list.
15:15<Chutt>i've said how to use it twice now.
15:15<Morph>it would seem if you wanna use the gotta use one of the support distros :)
15:15<Chutt>morph, yeah, for now
15:16<toe>k, thanks
15:16<Chutt>all you have to do is install their driver package
15:17<Chutt>recompile mythtv with the cle266 option turned on in
15:17<Chutt>and it works.
15:17<Chutt>if you're using one of the supported distros.
15:17<toe>excellent, thanks Chutt - great work
15:21<Chutt>just get their version of xine working
15:21<Chutt>and mythtv'll work.
15:21<grogan>anyone know how I would go about submitting corrections for the Case Western Reserve University channel lineup?
15:22<Chutt>ah, my crappy alma mater
15:23<grogan>it's not that bad
15:23<grogan>a bit of a culture shock after living one's first 19 years in nyc
15:23<Chutt>they haven't lost accreditation on their computer programs yet?
15:24<grogan>it's just the CS BA that doesn't have accreditation
15:24<grogan>pretty sure the BS does, tho
15:24<Chutt>they were close to losing it when i was there
15:24<term>Chutt: that bad?
15:24<Chutt>on the bs
15:24<Chutt>for cs/ce
15:24<grogan>yeah.. pretty sure they fixed that problem..
15:24<Chutt>since the program, well, sucked ass
15:25<grogan>they were going to lose it because there wasn't a big enough humanities component, or something like that, as I understand things
15:25<grogan>EE is good, tho
15:25<grogan>CE seems okay
15:25<term>a lot of schools seem to have an easier time defining EE programs than CS programs
15:25<grogan>I'm just a sophomore, tho
15:26<grogan>Chutt: when did you finish at cwru?
15:26<Chutt>just make sure to get into the lego lab
15:28<Chutt>thor, that's quite a bit brighter :p
15:28<grogan>I have played around with lego robotics a lot on my own, so I am not sure when I am going to take that class
15:29<grogan>Chutt: you know.. the cwru acm chapter is probably going to have a mythtv demonstration this semester
15:30<Chutt>any idea when?
15:30<grogan>well.. our mailing list is still down so we are having trouble getting an events schedule organized for this semester..
15:31<FryGuy>where's cwru?
15:31<grogan>probably sometime in october or november, it seems..
15:31<grogan>at the rate we're going
15:31<Chutt>fryguy, cleveland
15:31<Chutt>grogan, i live 'bout half an hour from campus
15:31<grogan>your presence would be more than welcome at such an event, tho :>
15:32<Chutt>most of that is MLK, too
15:32<FryGuy>oh that's pretty far :)
15:32<grogan>the way it is looking right now, the talk/presentation will be given by either myself or Tod Detre (who works in ITS, formerly CNS)
15:33<FryGuy>the ACM page at california state univerity: sacramento hasn't been updated since last semester :/
15:33<Chutt>yeah, i semi know tod
15:34<grogan>I'll keep you posted about our plans.. right now it's just looking like we'll be demo'ing from a vanila instatallation from the debian packages
15:35<Chutt>that'd be cool.
15:35<Chutt>mikegrb, i just rewrote all your xbox stuff
15:44<bbeattie>ym, the makefile was removed from cvs? why?
15:44<Chutt>qt 3.2 creates incompatible makefiles.
15:44<Chutt>i did send a notice to both mailing lists and the commits list
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15:45<bbeattie>sorry, missed it, checking now
15:45<sfr>Chutt: can a mpeg4 file be played by mythfrontend, frame by frame? Or does it only handle the nuv format.
15:45<Chutt>probably no seeking
15:46<Chutt>but that's _relatively_ easy to add to libavformat
15:46<sfr>Chutt: someone was asking to play a mpeg4 file frame by frame, but didn't succeed with mplayer or avidemux.
15:47<Chutt>what file format?
15:47<sfr>xvid avi (mpeg4) he said
15:47<jbwiv>hey anyone using a mythfrontend across a network?
15:48<Chutt>it can probably do it
15:48<Chutt>again, no seeking, though
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15:49<sfr>Chutt its him bozi_
15:50<bozi_>hi all
15:50<sfr>bozi_: for debs see, btw
15:51<bozi_>i like to play slingle frames from my (ffmpeg encoded) mpeg4 avi
15:53<sfr>jbwiv: just doing that right now.
15:54<jbwiv>sfr: how much effect on your net's bandwidth does it have?
15:55<sfr>jbwiv: i don't know. but it doesn't seem to saturate it. Depends on your recording profile, though.
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15:56<jbwiv>sfr: do you know if transfers the whole mpeg4 across the net, or does do some sort of remote display but still use the server for playing?
15:56<pahli_bar>howdy all
15:57<Chutt>jbwiv, it streams the file.
15:57<jbwiv>sfr: if I do the remote frontend, I'll be using it quite a bit for live tv, so I'm curious ;-)
15:57<sfr>jbwiv: that's what i use it for, too.
15:57<jbwiv>Chutt: ouch. So a 1 hour show == roughly 1 gigabyte transfer across the lan...
15:58<jbwiv>sfr: cool. Any lag at all that you notice, or is it pretty smooth?
15:58<sfr>jbwiv: You could reduce the resolution for live-tv.
15:58<Chutt>how else is it going to do it?
15:58<jbwiv>Chutt: now, does that mean that the client machine is responsible for the decoding?
15:58<Chutt>of course.
15:59<jbwiv>Chutt: so, I'll need more than a 400 mhz Celeron for the client...
15:59<sfr>jbwiv: 95% it's fine. Maybe 1 stutter for 0.5 sec every ~30 minutes or so.
15:59<jbwiv>sfr: gotcha. thanks man.
15:59<Chutt>you've got that entire hour to transfer the file over.
15:59<jbwiv>Chutt: true.
15:59<Chutt>i'm not really sure how else it could do remote playback.
15:59<tmk>jbwiv: get a pvr-350 :)
16:00<jbwiv>Chutt: I wasn't sure if it was actually doing some sort of cool X trick. ;-)
16:00<jbwiv>tmk: won't fit this machine.
16:00<Chutt>that'd be even more bandwidth.
16:00<tmk>ohh its a bandwidth issue
16:00<tmk>i just jumped in heh
16:00<jbwiv>tmk: it's an old net appliance I'm refactoring...
16:00<jbwiv>tmk: well, bandwidth and processor.
16:00<tmk>chutt: cvs updated with the api stuff we talked about
16:01<Chutt>i'm busy applying patches and junk
16:01<tmk>i think the ball's in your court now :)
16:01<tmk>i still have some decoder freezes to track down
16:01<tmk>but they don't lock the system
16:01<tmk>jsut stop playing
16:02<sfr>Chutt: that fix for the dc10+ h/w jpeg card. didn't seem to 'harm' the marvel g400 mjpeg.
16:02<jbwiv>tmk and Chutt: I have a big old hunking Athlon 2200XP behind the tv right now. Sounds like a small airport with all the fans I have going to keep it cool. Then I have this very small Celeron 400 mhz and was thinking about trying it as a frontend, but didn't want to A: saturate my LAN and b: buy the needed hardware (low profile nic) and then have the processor not be able to handle it....
16:02<tmk>well, if you have a switch
16:02<jbwiv>tmk: I do. actually, have two switches........aaah. good point!
16:02<tmk>it's only about 8mbit/sec for full pvr-?50 streams
16:02<Chutt>tmk, is that guy going to continue working on the mythtv support?
16:03* jbwiv smacks forehead.
16:03<tmk>chutt: you said he did it different than you wanted
16:03<tmk>he'll do it if i ask him to
16:03<tmk>switches only send data out the ports that need it
16:03<Chutt>it's mostly little things i'd do differently
16:03<tmk>so itll just saturate the 2 myth machines
16:03<tmk>but 8mbit on a 100 mbit lan isn't much
16:03<jbwiv>tmk: exactly. dedicated bandwith between two hosts....yep.
16:04<tmk>and you can scale down the tv data for cpu
16:04<jbwiv>sorry, I've been hammering on this thing for about 4 days straight with very little sleep. My heads not attached at the moment ;-)
16:04<tmk>just make it lower res
16:04<jbwiv>tmk: will that still be fairly good quaility displayed on a 27" tv?
16:04<tmk>what capture card do you havea?
16:05<jbwiv>tmk: two: a PVR-250 and an ATI TV Wonder
16:05<tmk>pvr's can scale video to any resolution
16:05<tmk>so you can custom fit it
16:05<tmk>16 pixel increments are best
16:05<Chutt>tmk, oh, about scaling
16:05<tmk>but the hardware supports most things
16:06<Chutt>ever do a capture at x240 ?
16:06<tmk>haven't tried it
16:06<Chutt>it looks like it's scaling instead of dropping fields
16:06<Chutt>looks like ass, really
16:06<tmk>yeah that's how the pvr's work
16:06<Chutt>it _should_ be only capturing one field, then
16:06<tmk>i'll have to look into that
16:06<Chutt>i dunno if it can, but..
16:06<jbwiv>tmk: well, yeah, but the capture cards are in my server. I'm worried about the client not being able to do quality output to a 27" tv with only 400 mhz processor (Nvidia GF2 tvout)
16:07<Chutt>also, do a really low res capture sometime =)
16:07<Chutt>colors are horrible
16:07<tmk>chutt: yeah i know about those
16:07<tmk>it's meant for reasonably hi quality
16:07<tmk>i like that it interlaces too at low res
16:07<tmk>there may only be 16 lines
16:08<tmk>but every other one is from a different field :)
16:08<sfr>bozi_: <Chutt> it can probably do it
16:08<sfr><Chutt> again, no seeking, though
16:09<tmk>chutt: so are you saying you want the ivtv guys to do the output support?
16:09<Chutt>tmk, no, i'm saying that if that guy wants to continue working on it, i'm certainly not going to stop him
16:09<Chutt>just want to encourage him to keep working on things
16:10<Chutt>less code i have to write, the better
16:10<pahli_bar>Chutt: what would it take to include mythnews in the cvs tree
16:10<tmk>well is the osd stuff tied in yet?
16:11<Chutt>pahli_bar, i haven't even looked at it yet.
16:11<Chutt>tmk, support's mostly there
16:11<Chutt>his patch was from before i redid a lot of it
16:11<Chutt>so if he updated it, it'd be easy to add
16:11<pahli_bar>Chutt: there's been a number of downloads. no bug reports so far :)
16:11<tmk>i was waiting till you'd gotten that stuff ready before i was going to give it a shot
16:11<Chutt>i have to look at it
16:12<sfr>pahli_bar: don't count me, haven't even compiled it. :)
16:12<pahli_bar>Chutt: ok. thanks
16:12-!-David [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:12<Morph>pahli_bar: url?
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16:12<bozi_>hmm ill try to find any deb package
16:12<Chutt>tmk, all it needs for the osd is a short routine to convert the yv12 osd image into argb
16:12<Chutt>then the appropriate ioctls or whatnot
16:12<Chutt>to tell it to display
16:12<Chutt>so, it's really pretty much done
16:13<Chutt>at least from an infrastructure standpoint
16:13<tmk>all myth needs you mean?
16:14<tmk>so you decided to do it in yv12 eh
16:14<Chutt>yeah, easier
16:14<Chutt>i didn't have to rewrite everything
16:15<Chutt>and it was relatively easy to translate the yv12 into ia44 for the cle266/xvmc crap
16:16<vektor>What is the cle266?
16:16<tmk>so you write to normal X stuff for the menus
16:16<Chutt>hardware decoder on the epia-m motherboards.
16:16<tmk>and then the osd stuff is separate and needs converting
16:16<vektor>Chutt: Thanks.
16:16<tmk>is that right?
16:17<Chutt>tmk, the menus and stuff are Qt
16:17<Chutt>the video is separate, and the osd that gets blended into that is also separate
16:17<tmk>ok that should be enough to work with i guess
16:17<Chutt>vektor, which you'll be installing mythtv on to soon, hmmm? :p
16:17-!-Edgan [] has quit ["Client exiting"]
16:17<tmk>chutt: did that guy say he would ship it soon?
16:18<Chutt>tmk, that guy == morph
16:18* Morph hides
16:19<Morph>so much for being anonymous on irc :)
16:19<tmk>so morph.. when's that shippin'
16:19* tmk :<
16:20<Morph>I mean I passed along to the appropiate people at SolarPC, should be soon..
16:20<vektor>Chutt: Have you seen new tvtime with the reet OSD menu?
16:20<tmk>gotta run
16:20<Morph>you're up in NoCal right?
16:20<Chutt>vektor, not yet, no
16:20<tmk>silicon valley
16:20* pahli_bar : oh crap. I just realized Chutt is Isaac
16:20<Morph>Okay. should be realively quick then..I think everyone else who won was in Canada :)
16:21<sfr>pahli_bar: :)
16:21<vektor>Canadians suck.
16:21-!-Edgan [] has joined #mythtv
16:21* Morph spots a Canadian
16:22-!-tmk [] has quit []
16:22<Morph>vektor: btw, did you get your board yet?
16:22<vektor>Morph: No.
16:22<Morph>hrm. okay. I'll find out monday what the status is.
16:23<Morph>vektor: I know they were looking to do something to help avoid the nasty customs tax on the other end..that might be why its taking a while.
16:23<vektor>Ok, interesting.
16:24<Morph>to avoid the canadians paying the customs fee when it arrives rather..
16:24<vektor>I figured I'd pay it, but I have no idea how much it will be.
16:25<Morph>yeah. I dont know off hand either.
16:26<thor_>hmmm .... Blame Canada !
16:26<thor_>and I'm Canadian
16:26<Morph>damn, we're surrounded!
16:27<Chutt>thor, i'm applying the two cleanup patches to mythvideo
16:27<Chutt>and the translation stuff
16:27<Chutt>and i'll do the video poster stuff if it looks ok to me
16:27<thor_>I'm right in the middle of that
16:27<Chutt>ah, nevermind, then =)
16:27<Chutt>you want to do it then?
16:27<thor_>going by hand ... a little slow
16:27<vektor>Chutt: Do you use gettext() for translation in mythtv?
16:27<Chutt>vektor, hell no
16:27<thor_>I'm mostly done, so yeah
16:27<Chutt>qt has all that built in
16:28<Chutt>thor, are you doing the i18n patch as well?
16:28<Chutt>ok, so i'll wait for you, then
16:28* Morph discovers why mythtv wasnt playing happy with the pvr250
16:28<Chutt>i've got taht merged in already
16:28<vektor>Someone wants me to support translations in tvtime and it seems to be a pain.
16:28<Chutt>vektor, gettext is a pain
16:28<sfr>vektor: who needs i18n for watching TV?
16:28<vektor>That's not what I want to ehar.
16:29<vektor>sfr: Uh, we have a full OSD menu now.
16:30<sfr>vektor: ok, but the only things to translate is volume, channel...
16:31<Chutt>all the different deinterlacer names
16:32<vektor>um, and all of the other things in the menu.
16:32<sfr>well, i'm just wondering.
16:33<vektor>Is gettext() easier to deal with if there are few strings?
16:33<vektor>A person from mandrake said they would make tvtime the default TV viewing app in the distribution but only if I supported internationalized strings.
16:34<sfr>Ah, that is tempting :)
16:34<Chutt>tell him to add it
16:34<Chutt>it's not _that_ hard
16:35<vektor>If it's not that hard, I'll do it.
16:35<vektor>Seemed annoying though, I have to call gettext() everywhere. Is GNU gettext installed everywhere?
16:35<vektor>Is it a lib, or part of libc?
16:36<vektor>I was surprised that I couldn't find a HOWTO or FAQ on making an app i18n'able
16:36<vektor>except ones specific to GNOME or KDE.
16:36<vektor>Even worse, I checked how gimp does it, and their source distribution _includes_ all of GNU gettext.
16:36<vektor>The last thing I want to do is import GNU gettext into my app's distribution, my source distribution is already 6M large.
16:36<krondor>how come newest cvs doensn't give me makefiles for anything?
16:36<Morph>thats new. no blank screen, just a crash :)
16:37<toe>krondor: qmake
16:37<Chutt>if you're using CVS
16:37<Chutt>you should be reading the mailing lists.
16:37<bbeattie>Chutt: .. there aren't any notes in the readme for which sql file needs to be reloaded, cvs or metadata?
16:37<bbeattie>meta I'm guessing though
16:37<Chutt>bbeattie, cvs, generally
16:38<krondor>toe: thanks I was going to try moving the makefiles from 0.11 release over but thought I should ask. Chutt I'll try to stay more current with the mailing lists sorry to annoy you since I seem to be.
16:39<Chutt>krondor, i wrote what to do to both mailing lists, and in the commit log when i changed it.
16:39<Chutt>you should at _least_ be not updating your cvs checkout until you've read the commits list.
16:39<mikegrb>Chutt: I lile this method of doing things: QString color = (recording) ? RecordingLED : DefaultLED
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16:42<Chutt>i generally don't use the ?: construct
16:42<Chutt>but i was bored.
16:42<Chutt>it's a lot harder to read, imo.
16:43<toe>nested ternary operators - yum ;)
16:43<thor_>don't understand a word of it
16:45<bbeattie>mythfrontend: relocation error: /usr/local/lib/mythtv/plugins/ undefined symbol _ZN16MythThemedDialogC2EP14ythMainWindow7QStringS2_PKc .. I get this when selecting play music.M
16:46<sfr>bbeattie: need to update your qt packages. Using Debian?
16:46<bbeattie>P14Myth.. I typed the error out, cut and paste isn't working., using debian, I'll do that now. I'm behind on maillit, 300 messeages
16:46<Chutt>bbeattie, just do a make distclean in the mythmusic dir.
16:46<Chutt>rebuild it
16:47<sfr>oh, sorry for the misinformed hint.
16:47<Chutt>similar error message
16:47<sfr>i like that
16:48<bbeattie>I always runinto make distclean problems.. I do it on mythtv, but guess I'll do it on others now on.
16:50<sfr>Chutt, in case you're bored again. Maybe you could add the remaining time of a show to the OSD.
16:50<Chutt>that's on my todo list
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17:07<term>I will figure out how to use this ir thing to change the channel on my digital cable box!
17:09<Chutt>no you won't
17:11<term>this is what I get for having learned nothing about ir
17:12<Chutt>lot of people figure out the ir transmitter stuff
17:12<Chutt>you'll get it eventually
17:12<term>I know, I just want to get it working before the start of the season :)
17:12<term>and my wife is asking for it now too ;)
17:14* toe was disappointed to discover lirc only allows 1 ir device per system... I wanted a transmitter and a receiver
17:14<mikegrb>lots of people have that working
17:14<term>as long as it lets me have my pvr receive and the usb -> ir transmit I'd be happy
17:15<mikegrb>you should look on the lirc list
17:15<term>I guess I have to have the usb -> ir use lirc too (there's also irattach, etc) and then I just have to have it figure out the ir codes
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17:16<toe>mikegrb: multiple devices you mean? by removing and reinserting modules I guess
17:16* toe hunts
17:17<Chutt>thor, just committed the i18n for mythvideo on top of your recent commit, thanks =)
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17:27<mattfelsen>whenever i edit dvdmenu.xml (to try to adding vcd playing capability), clicking on the dvd button from the main menu brings up an empty screen, and then pressing escape or ok crashes the frontend
17:27<Chutt>what have you added to it?
17:28<mattfelsen><text>Play VCD</text>
17:28<mattfelsen><action>EXEC mplayer -fs -zoom -quiet -vo xv -vcd 1</action>
17:29<Chutt>the type probably doesn't exist
17:29<mattfelsen>where is the type used?
17:29<Chutt>for the icon
17:29<Chutt>but.. i'm not certain it has to exist
17:29<Chutt>i dunno
17:29<mattfelsen>also, editing mainmenu.xml (to change "DVD" to "DVD/VCD") has no effect
17:29<thor_>Chutt, cool
17:32<thor_>mattfelsen, there is VCD playing built into CVS of mythDVD
17:32<mattfelsen>the one that uses xine?
17:32<thor_>any player you like
17:33<mattfelsen>./configure --enable-vcdx?
17:33<mattfelsen>or xvcd or whatever it is?
17:33<Chutt>it should autodetect
17:34<Chutt>or whatnot
17:34<thor_>yup, that's coming
17:34<Chutt>i probably need to make it able to add/remove menu buttons on the fly
17:34<thor_>or build a monolithic player =)
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17:35<Chutt>it'd be nice if the 'play *' button didn't even show up if there wasn't anything to play.
17:35<jbwiv>yo guys...I have a question. I've got two cards, a PVR-250 and a ATI TV Wonder. Sound-out from the TV wonder gos to external sound-in on my SB Live Value sound card via a small patch cable. When I first set this up, I was getting echo from live tv, so someone suggested turning down line-in volume. This seemed to do the trick. Now, however, if two recordings are going on at one time, sound will only be recorded on one of them. Weird t
17:35<jbwiv>s though, if I watch live tv while recording a show on another channel, both live and the recording get sound. What could be going on here? thanks, as always, in advance ;-)
17:35<thor_>Chutt, absolutely
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17:37<Sir-Al>any drivers for connexant chipsets in existance?
17:37<jbwiv>also, I've been told that someone was once working on a MP3 streaming client for Myth, but that it didn't get very far. Anyone know if it's still going, or who I should contact to get involved? I'd like to contribute.....
17:38<Chutt>jbwiv, sfr is.
17:38* sfr unhides
17:38<jbwiv>Chutt: sweet. thanks.
17:38<sfr>well, didn't get too far yet.
17:38<jbwiv>sfr: how far along?
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17:39<Stefano>hello there! I've found out that mythtv and seem to be a beautiful piece of software, but I have a problem: I'm using version 0.11 under gentoo and, when starting to watch tv, the backend stops with "Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV ioctl VIDIOC_G_FMT: Invalid argument lame error '-3', exiting". What can I do?
17:40<Chutt>stefano, you either have it misconfigured or a non-supported capture card.
17:40<sfr>jbwiv: next to nothing, really. As i'm also learning c/c++ along the way it will take some time. Right now i'm trying to understand mythmusic and how to add streaming.
17:41<jbwiv>sfr: cool...I'll have to look at the source. I have experience in C/C++, so I might be able to contribute there. Course, I've really no experience with streaming audio... ;-)
17:41<Stefano>Chutt: I have a miro pctv, bt848, working with tvtime...can you give me some hints?
17:41<Sir-Al>i have an msi tv @anywhere
17:41<Chutt>not really.
17:41<Chutt>try turning off mp3 compression.
17:41<sfr>jbwiv: don't believe i have. But for a start, shoutcast seems simple.
17:42<Stefano>mmm...I'm trying... :)
17:42* jbwiv runs off to check something on the sound problem.
17:42<jbwiv>sfr: brb
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17:45<Stefano>good, lame trouble solved. now the backend doesn't kill but gives a "Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV ioctl VIDIOC_G_FMT: Invalid argument strange error flushing buffer ..."
17:45<Stefano>and the screen is black...
17:46<Stefano>what could be wrong now?
17:46<Chutt>i don't know.
17:46<Stefano>do you know what that error could be related of? I capture, video encoding...etc?
17:47<Chutt>you've got the source, grep for it.
17:47<Chutt>you can find it just as easily as anyone else
17:47<thor_>Stefano, ignore "strange error flushing buffer ..." that's nothing
17:48<thor_>poke around for VIDIOC_G_FMT: Invalid argument
17:48<Chutt>well, just VIDIOC_G_FMT
17:48<Chutt>as it's probably a perror()
17:48<mattfelsen>does myth anti alias fonts?
17:48<Chutt>no, qt does.
17:48<sfr>heh, everyones asking for open-source, once they have it, they don't use it :)
17:49<Sir-Al>any cx881 drivers?
17:49<Stefano>ok...I'll look at it. Thanks
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17:49<Chutt>Sir-Al, you were answered once already.
17:49<mattfelsen>automatically? they seem blocky for me and i have msttcorefonts & defoma installed & configged
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17:49<Chutt>mattfelsen, run qtconfig, make sure they're enabled.
17:49<thor_>that's gotta go in the FAQ
17:50<mattfelsen>i don't have qtconfig
17:50<thor_>mattfelsen, part of Qt
17:50<Chutt>it's a separate .deb
17:50<Chutt>if that's what you're running
17:51<Sir-Al>Chutt: what was the answer, i did not see a response :-/
17:51<mattfelsen>yea, i'm on sarge...i'll test when i'm done walking my dog
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18:02<Stefano>tried the errors and the backend eats something like 15% cpu, so it should be working, but the screen is black... :(
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18:02<mythtv_>woah...ok, it's me (jbwiv) from my mythtv box. I think I've resolved my sound problem by using btaudio and setting my second capture to use /dev/dsp1. Works/sounds great testing from xawtv, but within Mythtv it sounds like everyone's in a tin can. ANy ideas what I've overlooked?
18:03<sfr>mythtv_: hm, check the volume with alsamixer. might be clipping.
18:04<Sir-Al>does anyone have a snapshot of the cx88 driver?
18:06<mythtv_>sfr: sigh...semms to be working now,
18:06<mythtv_>escaped out and back in.
18:07<mythtv_>ok all, final question of the day.
18:09<Stefano> records and plays back...but doesn't show tv live...
18:09<mythtv_>when viewing video through my TV Wonder, picture quality is particularly crappy compared to the PVR-250. It seems it degrades moreso as I go higher in channel (i.e., 12 is better than 42). At the lower channels, there's just a noticeable blockiness, compared to a normal signal. At the higher channels, there's colored fuzziness.
18:10<mythtv_>it this just a fact of life with a TV wonder, or is it something I can tweak. If it's a fact of life, I'm just gonna box the hardware up and send it back...can't afford another PVR-250 :*
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18:24<mattfelsen>does the gui style in qtconfig affect how myth looks?
18:25-!-Edgan [] has quit ["Client exiting"]
18:25<Chutt>mattfelsen, yup
18:25<Chutt>not for much, anymore, but there's still some native qt widgets left
18:26<mattfelsen>ok...anyway, font antialiasing is turned on by default
18:26<mattfelsen>and now that i think about it, tahoma (in the sasquatch osd) looks fine
18:26<mattfelsen>but anything in the normal theme is blocky
18:27<Chutt>the osd fonts are completely separate
18:27<Chutt>they're rendered internally
18:27<mattfelsen>scratch that
18:27<mattfelsen>everything looks purdy now
18:28<mattfelsen>maybe qtconfig saved some things on exit
18:28<Chutt>it doesn't save until then
18:28<mattfelsen>wow, things looks soooo nice
18:30<mattfelsen>although in the epg, the station call name goes outside of the box
18:31<mattfelsen>are tv picture settings (brightness, color, hue, contrast, etc.) saved anywhere?
18:31<mattfelsen>i think they keep disappearing after a reboot
18:31<Chutt>per-channel, in the channel table
18:33<mattfelsen>ah, that would explain it
18:35<mattfelsen>is there a way to do it globally?
18:35<Stefano>guys!I've solved my problem! :)
18:36<sfr>what was it?
18:37<Stefano>a lot of troubles...starting from the incorrect dsp device, then 32000 that was not supported (i put 44100), and so on. Now it's ok :)
18:38<Stefano>just a question: I can hear the realtime sound while looking at the 2 sec delayed tv. How could I do? I don't use alsa, I use oss (that's why I can't do anything with what's written on the faq)
18:38<Sir-Al>i have the modules loaded, but don't see a /dev/video0
18:39<sfr>Stefano: so you hear the sound twice? once synced to video, and once lagging behind?
18:39<Chutt>stefano, it's 'setting up alsa and the mixer'
18:39<Chutt>read that section, it covers exactly what you need to do.
18:40<Stefano>chutt: I don't use alsa...
18:40<Chutt>it's not saying if you use alsa.
18:40<Chutt>just read it.
18:40<Stefano> I'd better read it with more attention :)
18:40<sfr>use another mixer, alsa doesn't matter.
18:40<Stefano>thanks. I was just looking at the troubleshooting, not on manual :)
18:43<Stefano>mmm...if I mute it, it doesn't record audio on the mp3...
18:44<Chutt>keep reading.
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18:45<Chutt>mattfelsen, it's pretty easy to update all channels in the db with the same settings with a little sql.
18:46<Stefano>yeah... :)
18:47<mattfelsen>yea, that i know...but then i have to manually do that each time i change the settings
18:47<Chutt>it's not something you change all that often
18:49<mattfelsen>what's the value range?
18:49<Chutt>it's converted to the real range whenever it gets set/read
18:56<Stefano>bad:even if I mute the playback,it doesn't record. I don't know why. I've followed the instructions but doesn't work, I think I'll install alsa
18:57<jbwiv>Stefano: I had your problem.
18:57<jbwiv>Stefano: fixed it by enabling btaudio with my card and muting line-in volume
18:57<jbwiv>did the trick...but your card has to support btaudio.
18:58<jbwiv>what card?
18:58<Stefano>I have an es1370
18:58<Stefano>sound blaster pci 128
18:58<jbwiv>es1370 is your capture card?
18:58<Stefano>a miro pctv (bt848)
18:58<jbwiv>what caputre card.
18:58<jbwiv>ahh...hang on.
18:59<Stefano>so...what can I do? :)
18:59<jbwiv>hmmm...your card isn't listed here (, but you can still give it a try.
18:59<jbwiv>here's the relevant portion of my modules.conf (msging you privately)
18:59<jbwiv>hang on.
19:00<jbwiv> booted into the wrong drive. bear with me three minutes here.
19:01<Stefano>thanks! :)
19:01<jbwiv>rebooting now... ;-)
19:01<jbwiv>hey, anyone have any opinion on my TV Wonder problem? Anyone else using a TV Wonder?
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19:16<Sir-Al>is my card supposed to show when i type lspci
19:16<jbwiv>Sir-Al: if it's a pci card.
19:17<Sir-Al>jbwiv: how come it's not even listed in /proc/pci?
19:18<jbwiv>Sir-Al, well I'm no expert, but I would suppose that means you've either a: got a bad card, b: card isn't seated properly, c: card isn't being recognized by your bios for some reason.
19:19<jbwiv>Sir-Al: But, I AM NOT AN EXPERT ;-)
19:19<jbwiv>what kind of card?
19:19<Sir-Al>jbwiv: strage... it's a pci card
19:19<Sir-Al>jbwiv: strage... msi tv-tuner
19:19<jbwiv>hmm...can't help you there. Wish I could man...I know how frustrating it can be...
19:19<Sir-Al>i'll be back and check in other os's to see if it's displayed there
19:19<Sir-Al>no problem, i'll find out
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19:50<mattfelsen>is the text placement in the epg done in the ui or hard coded?
19:51<mattfelsen>should i just play wiht font sizes?
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21:41<hadees>Chutt: could you tell me what that experimental thing was with the nvidia driver you recommended using?
21:42<hadees>or if anyone else knows
21:49<mikegrb>experimental av sync
21:52<bline>"where did the makefile go?!?"
21:53<mikegrb>type qmake
21:53<bline>Don't people read what Isaac posts anymore.
21:53<mikegrb>did they before?
21:53<bline>mikegrb: please note the quotes.
21:53<mikegrb>I wasn't certain at first
21:56<kja>hades: 4363 is the latest with experimental av
22:04<hadees>how do i turn it on?
22:05<kja>experimental av? mythfrontend / setup / TV /playback
22:06<hadees>oh so i don't have to do anything for the nvidia driver?
22:07<jbwiv>experimental av didn't help my matter how old my drivers were downgraded to :(
22:07<kja>hades: nope
22:08<kja>be sure to have: deinterlace / jitter / experimental all on
22:10<hadees>thats all in mythfrontend right?
22:15<kja>setup / tv / playback, got it?
22:17<Chutt>kja, in avformatdecoder.cpp, see the comment on line 970?
22:17<Chutt>that's probably the source of any a/v sync problems with dvb
22:17<Chutt>that clause
22:17<Chutt>at least
22:17<kja>ok, because time is way off
22:18<Chutt>probably be best to remove it
22:18<Chutt>the very short dvb clip that ed wildgoose recorded a long time ago didn't have any pts info in the file
22:18<Chutt>that's what it took to get that clip in sync, but it was only 20 seconds, so...
22:19<kja>ahh, ok. just started a 10min recording, to figure out what was wrong :)
22:19<Chutt>but anyway, that's someplace to start with if you feel like looking into the matter
22:19<jbwiv>hey, is there really any reason Myth streaming should be part of myth music, or should it be broken out into MythIRadio? Seems like MythMusic heavily favours cd-to-mp3 conversion.
22:20<Chutt>jbwiv, err, all the file format players are in mythmusic?
22:20<Chutt>it wouldn't make sense to duplicate that functionality elsewhere?
22:20<Chutt>it'd only take the addition of a smallish input class and maybe a thread to add internet radio to it?
22:21<jbwiv>Chutt: ok, I missed something there. good point. bear with me...just getting my toes wet ;)
22:22<kja>Chutt, i'll try to figure it out, thanks for the tip
22:22<Chutt>how big would a 10 minute clip be?
22:22<Chutt>of something like a news program, just talking heads
22:22<Chutt>so it'd be easy to see a/v sync all through it
22:24<kja>the one i'm recording now aiming @ ~300M
22:25<Chutt>well, if you can't figure it out, that's always an option i suppose
22:26<kja>could send it, it will take a while though, only 128k out :(
22:28<kja>nah, i'll try to fix it...
22:29<kja>think most of the horrible bugs in the main part of the dvb code has been hosed now :)
22:30<Chutt>the cle266 decoder doesn't do full hd resolution
22:30<kja>oh no!
22:31<Chutt>wasn't expecting it to, but, that's no fun
22:32* kja thinks the new highlight button is too bright (does not match the rest)
22:32<Chutt>it is a tad bright
22:32<Chutt>always easy to change, though
22:33<kja>hmm, strange the 10m recording i just did clocked in at 9:48 in the change in that expected?
22:34<Chutt>depends on how long it took to start up, i suppose
22:34<Chutt>and i don't know how well things work with the manual or instant recording stuff
22:37<kja>the twelve seconds is probably mostly my cam running init
22:37<kja>shouldn't everything be broken and not only livetv?
22:39<Chutt>for playback?
22:39<Chutt>i dunno
22:39<kja>seeking stuff
22:39<Chutt>should be, yeah
22:40<kja>time is off in livetv and not in my 10 min recording
22:40<Chutt>well, no
22:40<Chutt>live tv, the player queries the recorder for that sort of information
22:40<Chutt>playback, it gets it out of the db
22:41<kja>livetv could also be based on db, no?
22:41<Chutt>the GetKeyframePosition() and GetFramesWritten() code in the recorder classes
22:41<Chutt>no, actually
22:41<Chutt>since it's a ringbuffer..
22:42<kja>you can seek it like a file..
22:43<Chutt>only if you take into account the writer position
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22:44<kja>yea, when it exceeds it's max filesize
22:47<Chutt>i dunno
22:48<Chutt>i think you should probably add back that demuxing
22:48<Chutt>that it was doing before
22:48<kja>need to take into account ring:begin and ring:end and calculate the position in the file
22:48<kja>why? the packet has header does the required thing, no?
22:48<Chutt>already does that with the GetFileWritePosition()
22:49<Chutt>how many packets are you sending at a time?
22:49<kja>one, too small?
22:49<Chutt>could be
22:49<Chutt>the gop start isn't where we want to start, most likely
22:49<kja>for ring or header?
22:50<Chutt>for the mpeg data
22:51<kja>the header code just search until it finds packet_start_code, right?
22:51<Chutt>anyway, i bet readding that stuff will fix it.
22:51<Chutt>since it worked before :p
22:52<kja>and packet_start_code is only in video packets
22:52<kja>so there is only excess load on audio frames
22:55<kja>btw, it was working excelent @ both mine & edwards setup before :)
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22:59<heavy>argh, ok, i've got a radeon 7500, my agp module is inserted, my radeon module from xfree-drm is inserted, i've uncommented the glx and dri lines from XF86Config and also uncommented the Section "DRI" but still don't have direct rendering, what could i be missing?
23:01<heavy>sorry, wrong channel
23:02<mdz>CVS ought to have an administrative file where you can give a banner/motd type thing
23:02<mdz>like one which says "if you are reading this, you should be on the -commits list"
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23:35<Chutt>kja, where's my patch to fix the audio detection code?
23:35<thor_>Chutt, set last line of configure (or only line in MythVideo & MythWeather) to qmake ?
23:35<Chutt>it's easy to just run qmake
23:36<Chutt>either going to have to tell people to run configure, or tell them to run qmake
23:36<thor_>allthough more people would be used to configure ... not important
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23:37<kja>Chutt, do you have problems with it? I don't..
23:38<Chutt>you said you'd send in a patch to only change once it'd gotten two frames different in a row
23:38<Chutt>it just now misdetected a change during live-tv
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23:38<kja>k, hold on
23:40<Chutt>no rush
23:41<Chutt>i just disabled it :p
23:41<Chutt>figured it's not too useful without your dvb stuff anyway
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23:42<kja>your pvr does not change audio sporadically? :)
23:43<mikegrb>Chutt: the change in activity between in the morning and the rest of the day is very noticable in here... guess most of the people are nort american
23:43<mikegrb> has a graph
23:43<Chutt>i usually go to bed at 3, get up at 10
23:44<Chutt>that looks about right :p
23:44<mikegrb>heh yes
23:44<mikegrb>you are the most active person at all hours though
23:44<mikegrb>nobody can say you are an uncontactable developer :)
23:44<kja>hu, you disabled it in cvs? but that breaks all dvb where audio differs?
23:45<Chutt>kja, is dvb useable without your patch?
23:46<kja>think so, only slow and broken seeking (dunno if anyone use it anymore though)
23:46<Chutt>yeah, so, send me a patch to fix the detection code :p
23:46<Chutt>and i'll reenable it then
23:47<thor_>hey, ( that quote defames my character !
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23:52<Chutt>cool, i'm happy with the highlighting changes to the settings widgets
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23:56<Chutt>thor, maybe tone down the brightness of the new selection icon just a tiny bit?
23:56<thor_>a little too much?
23:56<Chutt>yeah, i think
23:56<thor_>ok ...
23:57<thor_>looks good on the TV ... but it's a bit harsh on the monitor
---Logclosed Mon Sep 08 00:00:36 2003