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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-10-02

---Logopened Thu Oct 02 00:00:49 2003
00:00<bbeattie>I've got a quote for the mythtv web "fortunes"... "HDTV is for those of us with bad vision who want to feel like we're seeing things better than the average person. --Brandon Beattie"
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00:05<Chutt>bbeattie, the guy that submitted that patch for the pchdtv mpegts stuff someone you know?
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00:08<bbeattie>Chutt: yes, been in contact with him and helped him get myth installed and going.. don't know him irl though
00:08<Chutt>ah, ok
00:09<bbeattie>Jchutt: doug isn't part of pcHDTV though.. .. that person I think is around here a bit though
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00:10<bbeattie>Chutt: I'm not sure if you've spoken with him, I haven't been around when he's talked so...
00:10<Chutt>i don't think i have
00:10<bbeattie>.. I've been having 12-16 hour work days, and have had 0 time mostly to do support, so others are stepping in which is very helpful for everyone
00:11<bbeattie>.. Dougs patch though isn't showing any improvements for me though.. But I am having antenna problems tonight so I'll just blame the antenna
00:12<mikegrb>give me irssi any day :)
00:13<bbeattie>Chutt: it probably fixes problems and now there are new ones that were really there before and I never got to.
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00:14<Chutt>well, i'll get that into cvs soon
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00:16-!-ServerMode/#mythtv [+b *!*mythtv@*] by
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00:19<bline>heh forgot about that ban
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00:20<Chutt>i'm too lazy to remove it
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00:21<Chutt>that'd involve authenticating and stuff
00:21<bline>that guy was an idiot
00:22<warlord>hmm, seems to include a LOT of address space, no?
00:22<Chutt>sure, but it's restricted to that user name
00:23<Timon>Thanks for getting my mythgame patch applied ChaosExiguum
00:23<Timon>err Chutt
00:23<Chutt>thanks for making it :p
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00:28<Timon>I'm trying to work up the motivation to work on the lcd management daemon for myth
00:29<warlord>a least common denominator daemon?
00:29<Chutt>yes, that's it exactly
00:30<Timon>liquid crystal display
00:38* warlord likes causing trouble just before heading to bed ;)
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02:07<josephk>pvr 350's hiding on amazon...hehe
02:08<Timon>how much?
02:08<Timon>Thats not to bad.
02:08<josephk> on newegg and 187 on in stock
02:09<josephk>we'll see if they actually have them though
02:09<Timon>buddy of mind bought a 250 6 or so months ago for $150.
02:09<Timon>So $180 now for the 350 doesn't seem bad.
02:10<josephk>'s are at 130
02:10<Timon>if I recall correctly, the 350 as $250 when he bought the 250
02:10<josephk>'s are ridiculous to find
02:10<josephk>don't doubt it
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02:11<Timon>how so ( I havn't followed them. But I've been a fan of haupage (sp?) for a while)
02:11<josephk>well I've tried recently and not found them...was interested after tv out was reported working and supporting true interlaced
02:12<Timon>why not just get the pc hdtv card?
02:12<Chutt>that doesn't do output
02:13<josephk>I'm a real jerk when it comes to output
02:13<Timon>How long though until they have one that has output. . .
02:13<Timon>I'm not picky. Until 2 months ago, I had a 14 year old 19" tv :-)
02:14<josephk>well my tv is actually an arcade monitor...but I don't want to rely on a device that I likely can't replace
02:15<Timon>Got a 32" wega now, they are nice.
02:16<josephk>its only 29
02:16<josephk>but does 1024
02:16<Timon>29" Oh the inhumanity :-)
02:16<josephk>not even 720p so not really worth hdtv
02:17<josephk>32 WEGA is definitely nice
02:17<josephk>wouldn't mind trading...hehe
02:17<Timon>Tell me about it. I dig it
02:17<Timon>I would :-)
02:18<josephk>what are they down to now?
02:18<Timon>I got the demo for $600. new for $700
02:18<josephk>oh nevermind...I'll check
02:19<josephk>695.99 on
02:19<josephk>can I get the truck model?
02:19<Timon>My gawd, why is it that some lamma with front page thinks they are a web developer.
02:20<josephk>true web developers use vi
02:21<Timon>bah, notepad :-)
02:21<Timon>better yet, dos :-)
02:21<Timon>tried it once, didn't care for it
02:21<josephk>dreamweaver is fun...hehe
02:21<Timon>homesite is nice
02:21<Timon>I hate dreamweaver
02:22<Timon>hate it with a passion
02:22<josephk>I hate frontpage
02:22<Timon>brb, neeed another beer
02:22<Timon>err agreed
02:23<tmk>chutt: you around?
02:23<josephk>he was a minute ago
02:25<josephk>if I say nvidia tv out blows he'll come running;)
02:26<Timon>why do you think it blows?
02:26<josephk>I don't
02:26<Timon>ok :-)
02:27<tmk>chutt: i was wrong about the skip thing being fixed
02:27<tmk>unfortunately :/
02:28<josephk>I can't wait until I get my pvr 350 and tmk says output is broken forever
02:28<Timon>heh, I can't wait until my case/mb/chip/etc gets here this week.
02:28<Timon>bought the coolermaster atc-610 case. Freakin sweat case
02:29<josephk>nice case
02:29<josephk>mine is just a lian li pc7
02:30<josephk>I put my mac in the
02:31<josephk>its such a waste
02:31<Timon>you have a link for that case?
02:31<Chutt>tmk, i _hopefully_ should be done with most of my work stuff tomorrow sometime
02:31<Timon>I've wanted the atc-610 for a while. but its freaking $199. Found it for $109 on so I snapped it up.
02:32<tmk>chutt: thanks
02:32<tmk>chutt: i can't think of what it could be
02:32<josephk>looks better in person
02:32<tmk>i even hit the '10 minute rewind button'
02:33<tmk>then the 45 sec ff button
02:33<tmk>and it skipped forwards 10 mins
02:33<tmk>so i was back where i started
02:33<tmk>which is an ok workaround i suppose
02:33<josephk>all cases...
02:33<Timon>josephk: Umm, as a desktop its nice, but not sitting next to my reciever. IHMO
02:33<Timon>err IMHO
02:34<josephk>yeah I know...thats why I want my slower mini-atx doing everything
02:34<tmk>i'm gonna make my own case
02:34<tmk>err :P
02:35<josephk>well I was going to redesign the front in acrylic but I keep changing projects before I finish anything
02:35<Timon>tmk: Use frozen Nitrogen (can't think of what its called)
02:35<josephk>'s all the
02:35<tmk>chutt: it seems to be ff'ding the amount of time since the last ff (ie if i watch 10 mins then ff, it skips 10 mins)
02:35<tmk>nah i'll probably use acrylic
02:36<Timon>josephk: Magnesium is HIGHLY flamable.
02:36<tmk>buy an old broken tape deck for the body
02:36<tmk>timon: only at super-hi temperatures
02:36<Timon>tmk: I thought you could light it with a match?
02:36<tmk>and it makes a nice bright light too
02:36<tmk>err i guess you're right
02:37<josephk>well I guess it would be an alloy
02:37<tmk>bedtime for me
02:37<josephk>tmk heads to bed, with visions of pvr cases dancing in his head
02:37<Timon>I seem to remember civilian planes built back in ww2 were build with magnesium. And a band was in one of them in the 60's when the plane caught fire.
02:38<tmk>i know what it looks like already
02:38<tmk>already designed
02:38<tmk>doh. poor band
02:38* Timon heads to bed with visions of a hangover + Economics 201 dancing in his head
02:38<tmk>but they shouldn't have been smoking
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02:39<thor_>did someone say economics?
02:39<Timon>thor_: Yeah, I'm taking econ 201 at the U. I'm going to bomb the course
02:40<thor_>introductory micro?
02:40<josephk>economics makes me tired
02:40<Timon>thor_: combined micro and macro
02:40<Timon>josephk: You know who ben stein is? Thats what my professer is like, only WORSE.
02:41<josephk>my wife has a degree in economics...she makes me tired
02:41<thor_>Timon, do the assignments
02:41<Timon>Dude droned on and on about some stupid fee he could get added to the course catalog
02:41<Timon>err catelo
02:41<josephk>don't question the example of competing gas stations never having different prices
02:41<Timon>thor_: I'm doing them, I could tell you what comprises real GDP and nominal GDP
02:41<josephk>unless you have pictures
02:42<Timon>gas, I have gas :-)
02:42<thor_>I've taught "fundamentals" and intro micro/macro at 3 universities ... people who do the assignments (really do them, not copy from friends) always do fine
02:43<josephk>what's so fun about it
02:43<Timon>thor_: I dont' know a single person who's taking econ. I started college 7 years after graduation high school
02:43<thor_>Timon, good ... what textbook you using?
02:44<Timon>bade and parkins
02:44<Timon>fundimentals of econmentals
02:44<thor_>ah, western
02:44<josephk>ok, I have to get up for work...if I hear any more about economics I may never awaken
02:44<Timon>err economentics (sp? I've had 5 beers)
02:44<Timon>josephk: hahah
02:44<josephk>night night, or day day, whatever floats your time zone
02:44<Timon>nite josephk
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02:45<thor_>Timon, how's your calculus?
02:46<Timon>What calculus :-)
02:46<Timon>I've forgotten how to add fractions :-)
02:46<thor_>ah ...
02:46<Timon>That is until I started my beginning/intermediate algebra class
02:47<Timon>I forgot how to solve for x :(
02:47<Timon>I remember now.
02:47<thor_>you just taking one econ course?
02:47<thor_>(not majoring or anything)
02:47<Timon>thor_: Yeah. My major is MIS
02:48<thor_>ok, forget calculus
02:48<thor_>do the assingments
02:48<thor_>you'll be fine
02:49<Timon>I've been doing them. Still don't know how to do all this crap. I remember stuff thats easy / common knowledge, but I couldnt'[ tell you how to calculate nominial GDP
02:50<thor_>nominal/real is not that hard
02:51<Timon>whats an easy way to remember it?
02:51<thor_>double the price of everything, and nominal GDP doubles
02:51<thor_>real GDP is unchanged
02:51<Timon>so what changes real GDP?
02:51<thor_>making more stuff
02:52<Timon>quantity supplied changes real gdp?
02:52<thor_>quantity produced
02:52<thor_>real GDP changes means there's more stuff made
02:53<Timon>how is produced different than supplied? Or is there no difference
02:53<Timon>real gdp == stuff
02:53<Timon>shift of the supply axis.
02:54<thor_>the problem is, you can't go and measure real GDp
02:54<thor_>cause everything is measured in $'s
02:55<thor_>and $'s ain't stuff
02:55<thor_>make more cars, GDP goes up
02:56<thor_>make cars more expensive, GDP goes up
02:56<thor_>which is real, which is nominal?
02:58<DogBoy>hehe tv out on the nvidia card didn't start working until the monitor cable fell off the back of the computer
02:58<DogBoy>I guess I should read the driver instructions
02:58<DogBoy>should have anyway
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05:13<sfr>in the US, do you also have to setup your channels via mythfilldatabase --manual or --xawtv or can you use the xmltv listing for that?
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05:23<o_cee>stupid people
05:24<overridex>yeah, bungholes.
05:24<o_cee>all the broken threads in -users
05:24<o_cee>and the threads inside threads
05:26<sfr>ah ok. anyone knows that: in the US, do you also have to setup your channels via mythfilldatabase --manual or --xawtv or can you use the xmltv listing for that? i guess they are all still in bed.
05:26<o_cee>i think all info is in the xml
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05:41<o_cee>[mythtv-users] changing channels <-- there we go again, posted in another thread.
05:41<overridex>o_cee: ugh...
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05:58<o_cee>good mail Jarod, if you're here
06:52* o_cee is away: Gone
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07:38<overridex>anyone here use nuvexport?
07:39<overridex>wondering what ffmpeg version you have if you do...
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07:50* overridex is away: sleep
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09:26<zaheerm>hi lad
09:26<Lad>very nice
09:27<zaheerm>you upgraded to mythweb 0.11 yet?
09:27<Lad>i have been on 0.11 since the week it was released
09:27<Lad>oh mythweb
09:27<Lad>i did
09:27<zaheerm>what you say crashes backend?
09:27<Lad>its very nice
09:27<Lad>especially the pop-ups
09:28<Lad>but the backend crashd a few times while i was accessing the thing.... i'm not sure exactly what was going on... didnt look into too detail at the time
09:29<Lad>gotto go
09:29<Lad>c ya
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10:01<o_cee>Chutt: you got time for a oneliner patch for mythweb or should i send it to the list?
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10:10<o_cee>mail sent
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10:21<o_cee>found another thing as well, but i need help with the php in that case.. will have to get back about that one..
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10:43<jkolb>o_cee: What's the other thing you found?
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11:12<rkulagow>chutt: are you here?
11:18<Chutt>rkulagow, yup
11:18<rkulagow>Got the following in mythfrontend when I tried to go and delete "Sesame Street"
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: Parentheses expected, slot PlaybackBox::doDelete
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: (sender name: 'unnamed')
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: (receiver name: 'delete')
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: Parentheses expected, slot PlaybackBox::doDelete
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: (sender name: 'unnamed')
11:18<rkulagow>QObject::connect: (receiver name: 'delete')
11:19<rkulagow>cvs, make distclean, maked everything on frontend and backend.
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11:19<rkulagow>right before this, i had gone to "sesame street" and changed the "max keep" to "1", auto-expire, etc.
11:19<rkulagow>running in gdb
11:21<Chutt>i may have missed something in the changes last night
11:21<Chutt>lemme wake up first
11:22<rkulagow>ah, just saw in the masterbackend window that it's expiring Sesame Street episodes:
11:22<rkulagow>2003-10-02 10:12:53 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-30T10:00:00, too many episodes.
11:22<rkulagow>2003-10-02 10:12:56 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-29T10:00:00, too many episodes.
11:22<rkulagow>2003-10-02 10:12:58 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-28T07:00:00, too many episodes.
11:22<rkulagow>2003-10-02 10:13:03 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-26T10:00:00, too many episodes.
11:22<Chutt>yeah, but it should be able to kill it =)
11:22<DogBoy>how about tellitubbies?
11:22<Chutt>that's a coding problem
11:24<rkulagow>in the frontend (i'm on the "delete recordings" screen) the old episodes are still there. moved highlight back to the left, went to a different program node, then back to sesame street. programs are still there, meaning that it didn't refresh?
11:24<Chutt>they gone if you leave/reenter the screen
11:24<kvandivo>ya mikegrb... take _that_!
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11:30<rkulagow>let me check. brb.
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11:53<rkulagow>chutt: yes, if i exit the delete recordings screen then go back in the expired recordings are gone.
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11:54<Chutt>so it's not sending the 'hey, buddy, reload the program list' message
11:54-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
11:55<warlord>actually, the "i'm recording a new program" function doesn't send the "hey, buddy, reload the program list" message either. I just assumed that the screen didn't auto-reload while you were on it.
11:56<Chutt>yeah, that should as well
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12:05<chico2>hello anyone using an Asus A7N8X deluxe mobo?
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12:13<PNY>Hi Steele.
12:15<chico2>will the PVR-250 take the cable signal straight from the box in the wall and decode ALL the channels including tehones i dont pay for?
12:15<steelep>hi pny
12:15<chico2>i ask cos i am unsure how it will interact with the cable signal, my current GE box is hacked and i have all the channels for free
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12:15<chico2>wouldnt want to lose that
12:16<steelep>the pvr250 doesn't decode anything
12:17<chico2>but it says it's cable ready ?
12:17<steelep>you would need dvb for that
12:17<chico2>whats a dvb?
12:17<warlord>depends how the channels are "encoded"
12:17<warlord>the pvr-250 will only show channels you would get WITHOUT a cable box -- what do you see when you plug the cable directly to a TV?
12:17<PNY>steele, managed to meet the deadline you had yesterday?
12:18<chico2>i have never tried =)
12:18<steelep>hell no :)
12:18<o_cee>that's the spirit :)
12:18<steelep>i'm bracing for the hurricane that is about to decend on my office
12:18* o_cee is away: food
12:18<warlord>HOWEVER, you COULD hook the output from the cablebox into the input of the PVR, and use a serial cable or IR blaster to get myth to change the channel for you.
12:18<chico2>warlord: thats what i thought i had to do
12:18<sfr>rkulagow: hi. when setting up myth in the US, you don't bother setting up your channels but simply run mythfilldatabase after mythsetup?
12:19<chico2>but i read on the hauppage site "125 channel cable read" so i was just hoping =)
12:19<warlord>well, it is... but it wont decode 'encrypted' channels
12:19<warlord>For example, I have channels 2-97 pretty much 'unencrypted'
12:19<warlord>so the -250 reads all of those just fine.
12:19<steelep>dvb-c + softcam would do it, but it's not in mythtv
12:20<chico2>oh, so i will need a uirt then
12:21<chico2>umm, the infared transmitter thing? lol, newbie here
12:21<chico2>using girder to control teh cable box
12:22<warlord>Ah.. I just use a serial cable to control my cablebox, but I've got a motorola dct2k
12:22<steelep>girder is a windows app
12:22<chico2>i havnt yet built my machie especially for mythtv..
12:22<steelep>lirc is it's linux equivalemt
12:22<chico2>and i have no idea what a motorola dct2k is ;)
12:22<chico2>yep lirc is what i meant =)
12:22<warlord>it's a cablebox model
12:23<warlord>"motorola" is a small electronics company..
12:23<warlord>dct2k == dct2xxx == box model..
12:23<chico2>meaning "HUGE"
12:23<warlord>Well, you said you have no idea what it is ;)
12:23<steelep>actually ALL electronics are pretty 'small'
12:23<chico2>lol, WHAT it is, not who they are
12:24<chico2>electronics may be small, but the companies, quite big i assume
12:24<warlord><warlord> it's a cablebox model
12:24<chico2>i know
12:24<chico2>mine is general electric
12:24<steelep>depends how you look at it... 'small electronics' company or small 'electronics company'
12:25<chico2>lol i spose ur right
12:25<chico2>well, i have loads of questions
12:25<chico2>if i may...?
12:26<chico2>yes?! great! whats the capture quality like at best on teh PVR-250?
12:26<chico2>is there any card better at the job?
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12:27<cesman>hello everyone
12:27<chico2>hello cesman
12:28<cesman>hi chico2
12:28<chico2>it looks like there are peopel in here, but i believe they are like the fake people in stadiums you find in movies, used to fill the image, but not actually doing anything
12:28<chico2>or answering your newbie questions
12:28<tmk>chico2: i hear the pvr250's have good quality
12:28<tmk>better than most
12:28<cesman>tmk:how is it going?
12:28<tmk>but i've only used a 250/350, never anything helse
12:29<chico2>thankyou tmk, your answer means i shall be buying it, my bank manager will be visiting you soon ;)
12:30<chico2>thanks 4 ur help EVERYONE (yes u fakies!) bye!
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12:30* kvandivo crawls out from behind the box where he was hiding.
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12:33<Chutt>tmk, yo
12:33<tmk>sup chuttly
12:33<Chutt>are you on your ivtv-users list?
12:34<Chutt>someone cc'd a bug report to mythtv-users and ivtv-users
12:34<Chutt>something in the msp driver
12:36<tmk>i'll check
12:36<thor_>was -user down for a while?
12:36<Chutt>it's a decent bug report, so i didn't want it to go unseen =)
12:42<tmk>is that the 'no audio with pvr250' therad
12:47<tmk>he's fixed it already
12:47<tmk>jsut needed to update CVS
12:47<tmk>though i fear it will resurface
12:48<Chutt>ah, cool.
12:48<tmk>i think it's probably autodetection in europe being flaky
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12:48<tmk>most euros will need to specify a standard for the msp chip for it to work right
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12:50<tmk>i know the answer to dirk's question
12:50<tmk>but am not on -users
12:50<tmk>to sign up or not to sign
12:50<jkolb>Tell someone who is on -users the answer.
12:55<tmk>anyone in here on -users want to answer for me?
13:03<jkolb>Ok, so maybe that won't work.
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13:18<Magick>it's been so long since I've used BitchX... I've forgotten how to detach it into a screen
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15:18<kvandivo>you know.. reading the mails that get set to -user is constantly enlightening me to new things that people record and ways that they do it
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15:21<Chutt>wonder where rkulagow is
15:21<Chutt>bruce markey just sent me a patch that fixes his delete bug
15:21* tmk looks behind kvandivo
15:21<tmk>nope, not there
15:21* kvandivo smirks.
15:21<Chutt>tmk, you've got mail, soon
15:21<Chutt>not the seeking stuff.
15:21* kvandivo pictured in his mind the AOL guy saying, 'You've got mail'... soon..
15:22<Chutt>fix for the v4l2 crap
15:22<tmk>ah cool
15:22<Chutt>sent it to the -dev list a little bit ago, hasn't shown up yet
15:22<tmk>oh i'm on dev as a poster
15:22<tmk>i have delivery disabled
15:22<tmk>or you mean ivtv-dev
15:24<tmk>against decoder-alpha right
15:24<Chutt>of course
15:25<Chutt>though i don't see why it'd apply to normal cvs
15:25<tmk>you mean "woudln't" i presume
15:25<Chutt>it wouldn't apply
15:26<tmk>hows the free-cycles for the ffd problem
15:26<Chutt>this only took like 5 minutes, so i churned it out
15:26<tmk>my only idea at this point
15:26<tmk>is that it has a leftover value for framesPlayed
15:26<tmk>that it's adding to framesplayed
15:26<tmk>since it seems to skip forward the amount of time you request, plus the amount of time since you last ff'd
15:26<Chutt>is there any better way to get where it's at playback-wise?
15:27<tmk>it's returnign the correct frame # now
15:27<tmk>there's pts
15:27<tmk>but that's synced to frames i think
15:27<tmk>it returns the rigth # of frames played
15:27<Chutt>does that stuff you sent to not have it take over the console work?
15:27<tmk>it might be a thread problem perhaps
15:27<tmk>no :/
15:27<tmk>though i did put in soemthing to zero the use count
15:27<tmk>but that doesn't work right either
15:27<tmk>it crashes on unload
15:28* tmk shakes his fist at the fb-developers
15:28<tmk>i wonder if there's a dummyfb driver
15:29<Chutt>that'd be cool
15:29<Chutt>load that first
15:31<tmk>i have an i810 mobo
15:31<tmk>i thnk there's an fb driver fro that
15:31<tmk>else i could just modify ivtv-fb to be standalone
15:32<tmk>and vmalloc some memory for the fb
15:32<Chutt>you fix it to depend on fbcon-cfb32 yet? :p
15:32<tmk>forgot about that
15:32<tmk>doesn't complain on my system
15:33<Chutt>you probably compiled it into the kernel
15:34<tmk>i told it module
15:34<tmk>but it doesn't listen
15:36<tmk>gotta love
15:36<Chutt>want me to send that patch offlist?
15:37<Chutt>anon cvs is fixed, at least
15:37<tmk>send it
15:38<kvandivo>for those of you that got in on that $29 dell 200 gig drive deal a few days ago..
15:39<tmk>how come nobody told me about that
15:39<Chutt>because it wasn't real :p
15:40<tmk>oh ok
15:41<Chutt>no, nevermind
15:41<Chutt>couldn't send it
15:41<tmk>that's a problem
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15:41<kvandivo>you could try some of that extreme programming stuff, IRC style
15:42<kvandivo>you know.. the pair programming stuff..
15:43<Chutt>i knew a guy in school that was really into xp
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15:43<Chutt>he couldn't code worth shit, though
15:43<mikegrb>Chutt: you said that on the first line ;)
15:44* kvandivo giggles.
15:44<kvandivo>no matter how you define 'xp', the second line is inferred, huh?
15:45<kvandivo>mikegrb.. my little red xbox led has been faithfully telling me when the backend is busy recording.. pretty cute
15:45<mikegrb>it lets me know when it is safe to compile big stuff :)
15:46<Chutt>apparently's smtp server's dead
15:46* sfr wants one too (a red led)
15:47<mikegrb>sfr: they have them at best buy, etc... $179 ;)
15:48* mikegrb got a dvd burner last night :) still in the box though <g> been too busy working on some database stuff for the xbox-linux site
15:48<sfr>hu? that much for a tiny little led. they cost 20 eurocent here.
15:48<mikegrb>sfr: it comes with a free xbox
15:48* kvandivo throws back his head and cackles with insane glee.
15:49<sfr>and microsoft sponsors it. but i don't want/need another box in the living room.
15:50<mikegrb>kvandivo: don't know how close you follow xbox-linux stuff but within two days of posting a notice on the website about needing someone with an xbox with the new focus chipset for vga->tv-out we have someone sending one in :)
15:51<kvandivo>nice.... i bounce by there every few days.. i typically check xbox-scene daily, though.. they seem to mirror most news items from xbox-linux
15:51<mikegrb>he ordered it from lives in ohio, received it yesterday and mailed it this morning to germany
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15:52<mikegrb>sfr: don't need another box :) xbox runs mythtv great
15:52<kvandivo>i might have to actually close mythfrontend on my xbox before too long. cinemaware is releasing 'Defender of the Crown' on the xbox soon. that was my favorite game back on the c64, and i'm awaiting its arrival. it'll be the first actual game i've bought for the xbox
15:53<SarahEmm>i'm (still) trying to get mythtv running on this new box, i'm getting slow jerky video and lots of 'Delaying to next trigger' messages. xawtv works okay, and using_dma is on for the drive.. where else do i need to look? no other errors in dmesg or mythbackend.log
15:53<mikegrb>heh I think I have 10 or 12 games, haven't played any in a while
15:53<mikegrb>SarahEmm: you can try turning on 32bit mode also for the hard drive
15:53<SarahEmm>hrm, not true.
15:53<SarahEmm>there's a 'strange error flushing buffer' in backend log
15:54<mikegrb>that is from lame I believe
15:54<SarahEmm>mikegrb: what kind of drive throughput does it need for MPEG-4? i'm running benchmarks now to see if that might be the issue
15:56<mikegrb>not too heavy, hdparm -tT is broken on this system for some reason so I can't show you mine to compare
15:56<kvandivo>not much.. easy to figure that, at 3.6 gigs an hour, that's a meg a second.. and i suspect you aren't at 3.6 gigs an hour exactly
15:57<mikegrb>612 MB in 2.00 seconds = 305.24 MB/sec <-- I seriously doubt that is correct
15:57<SarahEmm>ahh, 32bit was off
15:57<kvandivo>for cached, it very well could be, mg
15:58<kvandivo>having said that, cached isn't a very useful number..
15:58<SarahEmm>Timing buffer-cache reads: 1200 MB in 2.00 seconds = 600.00 MB/sec
15:58<SarahEmm>that's pretty fast heh
15:58<kvandivo>that cached.. what's the other number.. that's the only important one for this
15:59<SarahEmm> Timing buffered disk reads: 168 MB in 3.01 seconds = 55.81 MB/sec
15:59<SarahEmm>still slow motion video
15:59<SarahEmm>with 32bit on
15:59<mikegrb>that should certainly be adequate
15:59<SarahEmm>tried both MPEG4 and RT-JPEG, neither one is better
16:00<mikegrb>what capture card?
16:00<SarahEmm>bt848 - ati tv wonder
16:00<mikegrb>me too
16:00<mikegrb>processor and memory?
16:00<tmk>probably an audio thing
16:00<SarahEmm>256MB, 1.7GHz celeron
16:00<SarahEmm>i'm runing the latest ALSA right now, intel810
16:02<mikegrb>er wrong win
16:02<mikegrb>heh I got same processor and memory
16:02<SarahEmm>any way to tell if it's the audio causing a problem?
16:03<mikegrb>check the sample rate
16:03<mikegrb>do you have tv wonder or tv wonder ve?
16:04<Chutt>tmk, mail finally sent
16:05<SarahEmm>was 44100, changed it to 48000 and 32000, no difference
16:05<SarahEmm>the regular TV wonder
16:05<SarahEmm>should i try setting up btaudio?
16:05<SarahEmm>hrm, that'd mean using OSS for btaudio and ALSA for the i810, is that possible?
16:05<Chutt>tmk, gonna be busy until after dinner now :(
16:05<mikegrb>I believe it is possible
16:06<SarahEmm>think that's worth a try then?
16:06<Chutt>and after that it depends on my wife if i have time to look into the ff issue
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16:06<tmk>np chutt
16:07<tmk>well i'd rather you spent time with her than with my bug
16:07<mikegrb>SarahEmm: you might give it a shot, I'd try searching the users list as I've seen posts about slow playback and audio
16:07<Chutt>tmk, so, probably later tonight
16:08<mikegrb>you can also search a log of this irc channel at
16:08<mikegrb>modz I /believe/ it is 4 chips
16:08<sfr>mikegrb: yeah, wrong window :)
16:10<SarahEmm>okie, thanks much, i'll play with it a bit more tomrrorow. work now, bye!
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17:04<sfr>did i already complain about this pointer crap today? relaxing while listening to in mythmusic :)
17:04<Chutt>sfr, i forgot about your mythfilldatabase patch while i was applying patches last night. i'll get it in tonight
17:05<sfr>np. i'll made (again) some changes to the translations. will send them later/tomorrow. do you have an idea when you will make the 0.12 release?
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17:10<Chutt>not just yet
17:10<Chutt>the disconnect stuff is a little iffy still
17:10<Chutt>it needs more testing
17:11<tmk>Chutt: something to think about: i'll be putting yuv support for tv-out in soon-ish
17:11<Chutt>the videoout_xv.cpp class can be modified to use that fairly easily, i think
17:11<tmk>libavcodec outputs yuv right
17:12<tmk>not videoout_ivtv?
17:12<tmk>since the osd wil be the same deal
17:12<tmk>or do you prefer software osd
17:12<Chutt>i'll have to look at it
17:12<sfr>np. if its another 2 weeks (or so) away, i might submit a patch for streaming shoutcast/icecast (but prob. without gui support for setting them up, yet)
17:12<Chutt>i'd probably just do software osd in that case
17:12<Chutt>did you get that email?
17:12<tmk>i got the one you sent
17:12<tmk>not to the lost
17:12<Chutt>since it's not shown up on ivtv-dev yet
17:12<Chutt>funky, oh well
17:13<tmk>i'll thow that in tongiht i guess
17:13<tmk>got a couple other patches i've been putting off
17:13<Chutt>it'll help, at least =)
17:13<tmk>does it patch the videodev2.h to new videodev2
17:13<tmk>are you moving myth to the new headers also then?
17:13<Chutt>check out the changes to ivtv-api.c
17:14<tmk>yeah i looked through it.. just wanted to be sure
17:14<Chutt>i'll move myth to the new header in a few weeks
17:14<Chutt>give people time to update
17:14<Chutt>since the driver handles both now
17:14<tmk>you've tested it i presume
17:14<Chutt>i've tested sending it the old ioctls
17:14<tmk>good enough for me
17:14<Chutt>when the driver's compiled with the new header
17:15<Chutt>haven't tested sending the new ioctls, but i can't see how that wouldn't work
17:15<tmk>k i need to get some work done
17:15<tmk>i'll be back later
17:15<tmk>too much irc today
17:15<Chutt>ok =)
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18:10<sfr>as i'm just watching a recording where false commercials were skipped during playback: is there an option to toggle commercial-skipping during playback?
18:11<kvandivo>whether there is or not, i don't know. that's a good idea, though, sfr
18:12<Quintesse_>Anybody on with knowledge about NuppleVideoPLayer and AvFormatDecoder and such?
18:12<sfr>yeah, but the tough part (for me) is to implement such ideas.
18:13<Quintesse_>Trying to track down a SEGFAULT during stream decoding but I'm gettin glost :-)
18:16<kja>Chutt: I think you made the Audio has Changed stuff a bit too hard to trigger with your latest patch..
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18:23<cbreen>i'm having a heck of a time getting lirc to work with my wintv pvr250. anyone get this to work?
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18:25<Chutt>kja, needs to be harder, apparently
18:26<Chutt>sfr, i believe it's pretty easy to go into edit mode real quick and clear things out
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18:28<sfr>so the commercials are autom. loaded into the cutlist, if aut-skip is active? and i could have sworn the cutlist was empty when i checked it.
18:29<Chutt>i dunno
18:29<Chutt>that's what the 'i believe' was there for =)
18:29<Chutt>that'd be a good candidate for an osd menu item, though
18:29<Chutt>if i ever get around to writing such a thing
18:30<sfr>what about adding it to the show-rec. screen? to toggle it for the selected show.
18:30<sfr>that way there are no surprises while watching
18:31<sfr>and now Chutt will remind me about the scissors.
18:31<Chutt>ask captain_murdoch next time he's on
18:31<Chutt>there might already be something like that
18:31<sfr>i'll do that.
18:52<kja>Chutt, are there still people having problem with it? They might have broken mpegs...
18:53<kja>Chutt, and why did guessing on newpts in afd.cpp? It breaks my playback
18:54<kja>'remove' should have been in there...
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19:01<Quintesse_>Repeating my earlier question:
19:01<Quintesse_>Anybody on with knowledge about NuppleVideoPLayer and AvFormatDecoder and such?
19:01<Quintesse_>I'm trying to track down a SEGFAULT during stream decoding but I'm getting lost :-)
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19:06<kja>Quintesse, i'm not very good at it, but what is the problem?
19:16<Chutt>kja, because it was really off?
19:16<Chutt>it wasn't a good guess.
19:17<Quintesse_>Problem is that I don't get the connection between the read ahead stuff and the code that reads the results of the read ahead. I need a way of telling the code that the read ahead encountered an error (lost connection for example) and it should just bail out.
19:18<Quintesse_>Problem is that the code jumps around a lot and there are multiple threads involved. And we probably all know how much Isaac loves to comment his code ;-)
19:20<Quintesse_>I'll admit it: I'm a GUI kind of guy, is there a xgdb or something? Using gdb is just taking up to much time and I rather spend time solving the problem instead of learning how to manage gdb well
19:21<Chutt>all you have to do is set eof to true.
19:21<Chutt>'ateof = true;'
19:22<Quintesse_>Used 'stopreads = true' , shouldn't that do the same?
19:24<Quintesse_>I didn't use ateof because it seemed that the code later on expects everything to be okay, while what I need is to make it aware that soemthing has gone wrong.
19:28<Quintesse_>Problem is that it not using the code I was expecting it to. I put a message in safe_read() (the version using RemoteFile) but I'm not seeing it. So does it use the local file version? But why would it start a read ahead thread for that?
19:29<Chutt>slower machines still need it
19:29<Chutt>it always uses the remotefile version in live tv mode, though
19:30<Quintesse_>Ok, put the messages in the local file version as well and yes it seems that I got it now.
19:31<Quintesse_>So a read ahead thread is _always_ used. Aha, that explains things.
19:37<Quintesse_>@Chutt: so, you're absolutely sure I should _not_ tamper with the StopReads() function? I'm using it now in the safe_read() function to try to stop the live tv when the connection fails. (not that it works of course)
19:49<Chutt>well, i'm pretty sure you want to do it with the eof stuff
---Logclosed Thu Oct 02 19:54:26 2003
---Logopened Thu Oct 02 20:04:02 2003
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---Logopened Thu Oct 02 20:04:25 2003
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20:07<kja>Chutt, it clearly was a better guess than notting, because now audio is lagging behind..
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20:16<Chutt>constant amount?
20:17<Chutt>quintesse, essentially, yeah.
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20:27<kja>about a second or so
20:28<kja>gee, i want that via reference set-top box, the blue...nice!
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20:42<Captain_Murdoch>sfr, you still around?
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20:44* Captain_Murdoch has got to learn to check the userlist before responding to someone who posted hours ago.
20:47<Captain_Murdoch>hmm, dropped the price on the M179 refurb to $39 now. $78 for two.. :) enticing...
20:47<Captain_Murdoch>did you get a callback from those people (the call you referenced in the ivtv-dev channel)
20:48<tmk>nah they won't call till next monday
20:48<Captain_Murdoch>$78 for two might be a good gamble that you or someone else will get it working. :)
20:49<Captain_Murdoch>I bought a SCSI scanner about 6 years ago like that then just wrote the SANE driver for it myself.
20:53<tmk>Captain_Murdoch: it works already from what i understand
20:53<tmk>just need specs on the audio chip
20:53<tmk>ie it gets video, but no audio
20:54<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, I saw your posts on the mailing lists about that. was reading up on it yesterday.
20:54<tmk>someone might donate one
20:54<tmk>i'll know next week
20:55<Captain_Murdoch>I'm gonna go ahead and order two. if you can't a demo/freebee unit then I could loan/donate one.
20:55<tmk>cool thanks
20:55<tmk>i'll let you know
20:56<extremis>What command do I use to clear out the channel listings so I can mythfillda... again
20:56<extremis>it drops all the old data out?
20:56<tmk>it gives you the option to delete channel and program info
20:56<tmk>if you jsut want to get rid of program
20:57<tmk>you can delete it using sql
21:00<extremis>tmk: whats teh sql command?
21:00<extremis>I'll run setup
21:02<josephk>the wait for the pvr continues....will it be in stock? will they send the right card? will joey ever know what's going on? Tune in next week, same danger time, same danger channel.
21:02<tmk>like 'delete from program where (field = somevalue)'
21:03* tmk will bbl
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21:08<Captain_Murdoch>ordered 3 instead. :) $39 * 3 = $117 w/ free shipping. cheaper than my pvr-250 before the rebate.
21:09<Captain_Murdoch>and cheaper than decent 878 chip cards as well.
21:09<josephk>who what where?
21:10<Captain_Murdoch>the as-yet-unsupported 100% avermedia m179. video is supposedly working but not audio. readup on the ivtv mailing lists.
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21:12<Toothpick>What would you say a low end box would cost for running mythtv...well...I'd want the tv card to have tvout and use it for a real tv.
21:14<josephk>well pvr 350 has the best tv out
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21:15<josephk>it does encoding and decoding, so you wouldn't need a fast machine
21:16<josephk>but the driver isn't considered stable yet...and myth support is still in development
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21:18<Toothpick>josephk: thanks
21:18<Toothpick>will bookmark that and keep a watch.
21:18<Toothpick>Wouldn't be getting it until Decemberish.
21:19<yeyo>how can i clear my music database for mythmusic.. i didn't see anything in the docs
21:19<josephk>should be a release by that time
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21:23<Captain_Murdoch>I have a Celeron 466 as my main frontend. only thing slow is the menus sometime cause it's an i810 chipset which doesn't have the greatest X support. It works fine for 480x480 mpeg2 recordings from my pvr-250 though, just can't deinterlace on the celeron-466.
21:28<kja>yeyo: enter mysql and type 'delete * from musicmetadata;'
21:31<kvandivo>so i just watched Survivor and deleted it. The file went away, and the commercial skipping thread has just kept right on spinning
21:32<kvandivo>i'm assuming it will die eventually.. haven't noticed it persisting in the past.. (it's only been 8 minutes since I deleted the show)
21:40<kja>Wanted to try to run Myth on my laptop today, and fired up setup on it, typed in the correct ips, and tried to run mythfrontend, but then it tries to connect to localhost(??)...investigate...the mythfrontend code that fetches the setting uses hostname as a base, but setup uses a clear hostname as base???
---Logclosed Thu Oct 02 21:40:38 2003
---Logopened Thu Oct 02 21:42:38 2003
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21:42-!-Irssi: #mythtv: Total of 49 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 49 normal]
21:42<mikegrb>thank you
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21:43<kja>there's an err either in setup or mythfrontend setup code
21:43<kvandivo>Captain_Murdoch: just curious.. you have any way to test your 179's in rapid fashion? says they have a 15 day return policy on those
21:43<josephk>cvs or release?
21:44<kja>I guess we should change setup so that it stores the MasterBackend* with hostname, because then you can choose different backends for different frontends
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21:44<kja>Chutt, want a patch for that, or could you do it by hand?
21:46<josephk>I never did understand why I had to edit that file seperately from anything
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21:51<extremis>hrm, I just ran setup and after defining the video source it froze at the main setup window and nothing is highlighted
21:52<extremis>I know it usually takes a second, but it has been like this for a while
21:53<kja>extremis: attach gdb to it, and check where it is
21:54<extremis>how do I do that?
21:55<kja>gdb <app> <pid>
21:56<extremis>what is app? teh fullpathname? the name that ps shows?
21:56<overridex>is it just me, or does mythtranscode seem to be really slow when you read the data from the vidout fifo....
21:56<overridex>barely using any cpu and cating it to a file takes forever.... hardly any hd activity either..
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22:26<extremis>Should I use diff drives for mythtv binaries and mythtv data (videos) ?
22:35<warlord>I dont think it matters
22:39<extremis>the speed improvement is neglagable?
22:39<extremis>so... what filesystem should I use for my video partition?
22:40<extremis>I need to figure out why my amd 2600+ keeps skipping while playing back video recorded from my 250
22:40<extremis>maybe I'm setting the dma mode wrong
22:44<warlord>could be.
22:44<warlord>What speed disk do you have?
22:44<warlord>and how do you have the BIOS set?
22:45<warlord>I've got a 2600+ and 3 pvr-250s and I dont see any skipping.
22:45<extremis>I have an ultra133
22:45<extremis>its a 200gig
22:45<extremis>this is my hdparm params: -u1 -c3 -X udma5
22:45<warlord>I've got a 200g udma(100)
22:45<warlord>do you set hdparm -d1 ?
22:46<extremis>hrm, yes
22:46<extremis>gentoo conf:
22:46<extremis>disc0_args="-u1 -c3 -X udma5"
22:46<warlord>what do you get from -i ?
22:46<warlord>hdparm -i /dev/hda
22:47<extremis> UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
22:47<extremis>hrm, it supports 6
22:47<warlord>that would be 133..
22:48<extremis>but I wonder if the * means that is what it is currently
22:48<warlord>so it's probably not disk..
22:48<extremis> * signifies the current active mode
22:48<warlord>The * means that's what it's using.
22:48<extremis>odd, I told it udma5 yet it used 6
22:49<extremis>ide0: Speed warnings UDMA 3/4/5 is not functional.
22:49<warlord>Ok, so it's not the disk.. Perhaps it's the graphics output?
22:49<extremis>I guess that is why
22:49<extremis>warlord: nvidia geforce4 440mx
22:49<warlord>hmm, that could do it..
22:50<warlord>Some things do: I boot with "idebus=66 ide0=ata66"
22:51<extremis>where do I define that?
22:51<extremis>and why not ata133?
22:51<warlord>er, .conf
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22:51<extremis>right, whats the proper syntax?
22:51<warlord>Just add it to the boot command line.
22:52<warlord>also, ata133 probably wont be accepted.
22:52<warlord>it's talking about bus-speed.
22:52<extremis>also, I think I remember seeing something about the nvidia driver and disabling framebuffer support in the kernel
22:53<warlord>could be..
22:53<warlord>I dont think I've got it configured in mine.
22:53<extremis>I currently use the framebuffer because I wanted to use bootsplash
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22:55<extremis>I think it would be worht disabling
22:55<extremis>anything else I should look at? I'm using reiserfs
22:55<extremis>I know that Chutt doesn't like it
22:55<extremis>I want speed speed speed
22:57<warlord>I use ext3
22:58<warlord>I dont like reiserfs, either, but for unrelated reasons.
22:58<extremis>do you enable journaling support in ext3?
22:59<extremis>are there any good debates about the fastest filesystem?
22:59<extremis>for video?
22:59<extremis>since its large files
22:59<warlord>Yes, journaling is on.
22:59<extremis>mkfs.ext3 -j ?
22:59* extremis man's
23:00<warlord>ext3 IMPLIES a journal.
23:01<warlord>ext2 is no journal.
23:03<extremis>so, I'm curious... why do you prefer ext3 over reiserfs?
23:03<kja>use ext2 for robustness, stability and speed
23:03<extremis>kja: ?
23:03<extremis>do yo uhave any documentation showing it outperforms the others?
23:04<kja>reiserfs isn't mature, to fresh
23:04<warlord>reiserfs breaks the inode abstraction
23:04<warlord>and, well, I know the maintainer of the ext[23]-tools
23:04<kja>i think ext2 and xfs is bout the same in performance
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23:05<warlord>i'll grant the unlink() is faster in reiserfs than ext3, but why do I care?
23:05<kja>can you play the recorded files without in mplayer or other apps fine?
23:05<extremis>so... why is ext2 faster than ext3, is there any proof?
23:05<uncle_jesse>anyone know how I can map a keycode to a command? I want my remote wonder to launch mythtv when I hit it's "TV" button
23:06<extremis>kja: dunno
23:06<extremis>but I know its playback
23:06<uncle_jesse>can I do it with xmodmap?
23:06<extremis>because I can rewind and play the same spot over and it doesn't skip
23:06<warlord>I dont believe ext2 is any faster than ext3. it certainly recovers from a crash faster...
23:06<Chutt>ext2 is certainly faster than ext3
23:06<extremis>its like a process loads up and sucks up resources
23:06<extremis>but of course there isn't
23:06<Chutt>it doesn't have to write extra stuff to the journal
23:07<warlord>the journal is just flushing out metadata..
23:07<Chutt>kja, there's only one master backend on a network by definition, btw =)
23:07<Chutt>kja, so, no, i wouldn't like a patch for that
23:07<warlord>i'm not convinced ext2 is significantly faster than 3
23:07<Chutt>warlord, there's a measureable difference
23:08<Chutt>not offhand
23:08<kja>but then the GetSetting in mythcontext should be changed...
23:08<extremis>yes, I'm the troll of the evening
23:08<Chutt>kja, no, it works fine
23:09<kja>I had to insert a setting for my laptop manually...
23:09<Chutt>getsetting falls back to null
23:10<Chutt>for hostname
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23:12<extremis>Chutt: on the topic of measurable differences, do you believe that there is a measurable speed difference between debian and gentoo... when propery compiling your whole system with march definitions?
23:12<Chutt>no, i don't
23:12<extremis>really, why is there a flavor built around that concept, and why did they work so hard implementing that in gcc (the gcc team that is)
23:12<uncle_jesse>has anyone figured out a way to map a keycode to an actual command string so you can launch mythtv with just a button on your remote from within the desktop manager?
23:12<Chutt>and even if there was, you just lost any speed difference you gained by compiling everything yourself.
23:13<Chutt>uncle_jesse, hey, i have an idea, why don't you repeat yourself until you get an answer?
23:13<extremis>Chutt: what do you mean you lose speed by compiling yourself? I'm talking about runtime speed, not development speed
23:13<Chutt>extremis, wasn't there a test recently that showed gentoo was the slowest of distributions?
23:13<uncle_jesse>Chutt: there was alot of traffic - wasn't sure if anyone saw my post
23:13<extremis>Chutt: really? and was this test accurate and reputable?
23:13<warlord>uncle_jesse: what UI?
23:13<Chutt>extremis, how should i know?
23:13<uncle_jesse>warlord: gnome
23:14<Chutt>uncle_jesse, this isn't a generic linux tech support channel.
23:14<warlord>uncle_jesse: no clue.
23:14<extremis>Chutt: what was the fastest of them?
23:14<Chutt>extremis, i don't recall
23:14<Chutt>i just remember laughing at the gentoo kiddies
23:14<warlord>If you were running KDE, I'd tell you to map 'OK' to 'Return', and then you could put a copy of your frontend onto your desktop.
23:14<warlord>you might be able to do something similar with gnome.
23:15<extremis>Chutt: I love debian, but one thing that has bugged me (increasingly so over time) is that thheir stable releases are increadibly behind... its almost impossible to run a 'stable' system. I don't know anyone doing that anymore, unstable contains the necessary upgrades
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23:16<Chutt>moegreen, greetings
23:16<warlord>extremis: and that's why I hate Debian and prefer Red Hat. RH sucks in other ways, but they at least have "stablereleases
23:16<billytwowilly>extremis: People that don't need the upgrades use stable. The nice thing about stable is that you know you can install it and go away for a couple years and it'll still be working;)
23:16<warlord>every 6 months or so
23:17<warlord>it's the "couple of years" that's the problem.
23:17<Chutt>i run stable on several production servers at work.
23:17<Chutt>they don't need upgrading, aside from security issues, and debian's always on top of that
23:17<extremis>warlord: I would agree with you there, but I just can't get used to using the microsoft of linux
23:18<extremis>Chutt: you run unstable on your mythtv boxen?
23:18<Chutt>of course
23:18<extremis>how often do you apt-get update apt-get upgrade?
23:18<Chutt>every couple weeks
23:19<extremis>If you were to sell a mythtv settop box, would you use debian and would it be -unstable?
23:19<extremis>(I'm not going to, but I am debating converting from gentoo)
23:19<Chutt>i wouldn't be selling a mythtv box
23:19<Chutt>but, yeah, i'm most comfortable with debian.
23:20<Chutt>only been using it for.. 8 years now, i think
23:20<extremis>do you use any other OSs (like openbsd?)
23:20<extremis>have you ever used openbsd?
23:21<billytwowilly>does anyone archive the devel conversations that go on here?
23:21<extremis>do you have enough knowledge of the other flavors of linux to debate debian's superiority?
23:22<Chutt>billytwowilly, yes
23:22<hEximal>distributions are like cola
23:22<billytwowilly>Chutt: where?
23:22<Chutt>extremis, i've used pretty much every linux distribution, aside from gentoo
23:22<extremis>hEximal: nootice my use of the word flavor
23:22<Chutt>i don't have the time to waste on that
23:22<Chutt>this irc session's running on a redhat box :p
23:22<hEximal>lots of people like coke, but they'll drink pepsi
23:23<billytwowilly>hEximal: what, you mean they all want to be coke?;)
23:23<Chutt>billytwowilly, i don't have the url, sorry
23:23<billytwowilly>Chutt: no worries, I was just curious.
23:23<hEximal>billy: now i'm confused.
23:23<billytwowilly>hEximal: you said distributions are like cola.
23:24<billytwowilly>hEximal: every cola wants to be coke;)
23:24<billytwowilly>hEximal: but they can't, there is only one coke.
23:24<Chutt>where's tmk..
23:24<hEximal>ok socrates
23:24<billytwowilly>hEximal: So which distro is coke?
23:24<billytwowilly>hEximal: hehehehe.
23:25<hEximal>billytwowilly: maybe they all see themselves as coke
23:25<billytwowilly>maybe the coke is in the eye of the beholder;)
23:26<hEximal>my coke might be pepsi.
23:26<hEximal>or r/c
23:26<billytwowilly>or president's choice..
23:26<hEximal>must be a generic brand
23:26<billytwowilly>if you aren't from Canada, that's this cheap house brand from the real Canadian superstore;)
23:27<extremis>Chutt: thank you for patiently answering my somewhat silly questions
23:27<extremis>given my recent irritations with gentoo, I'd like to give debian another chance
23:27<extremis>now to find a -unstable iso
23:27<Chutt>stuff's compiling, i got nothing else to do :p
23:27<Chutt>you can't install unstable right off
23:27<Chutt>start with a netinst cd for stable, then just upgrade it immediately
23:28<hEximal>billytwowilly: maybe distributions are more like beer, lite, dark, low carb, imported...
23:28<extremis>Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (a.k.a. woody) was released on 19th of July, 2002
23:28<extremis>Chutt: do you use bootsplash to make your bootups pretty?
23:29<Chutt>i don't really reboot
23:29<Chutt>so i don't bother with that stuff
23:29<billytwowilly>hEximal: if only I could remember where I saw that article on linux and beers;)
23:29<extremis>I think jigdo is stupid
23:30<billytwowilly>jigdo's an interesting idea.
23:30<extremis>its painfully complicated
23:30<extremis>compared to apt
23:30<hEximal>is jigdo worth the trouble of comprehension?
23:30<overridex>ok... has anyone here tried using mencoder directly from the mythtranscode vidout fifo?
23:31<overridex>it goes insanely slow, like 2fps encoding, using barely any cpu..... if i cat some of the vidout to a file and encode that file, it uses full cpu encodes at 22fps....
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23:31<extremis>Chutt: where do you get your netinst images?
23:32<Chutt>there's some linked to from the debian site
23:32<Chutt>i forget which i used
23:32<extremis>yeah, they are old
23:32<extremis>heh, I found one that uses beta 3.0 snapshots
23:32<Chutt>yeah, that's the one bad thing
23:32<Chutt>it doesn't install
23:32<Chutt>they've fucked up the installer
23:33<Chutt>it gets rather difficult to install debian on newer hardware near the end of a release cycle =)
23:34<extremis>so, shall I use the testing image?
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23:35<extremis>hah, but a broken installer
23:35<Chutt>no, stable works
23:35<Chutt>newer ones don'e
23:35<Chutt>unless they've fixed things in the past couple months, but i'd doubt that
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23:47<Chutt>ah hah
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23:50<Chutt>bah, i'm working on tmk's bug, and he's nowhere to be found.
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 03 00:00:36 2003