| --- | Log | opened Thu Oct 02 00:00:49 2003 |
| 00:00 | <bbeattie> | I've got a quote for the mythtv web "fortunes"... "HDTV is for those of us with bad vision who want to feel like we're seeing things better than the average person. --Brandon Beattie" |
| 00:01 | <bbeattie> | ;) |
| 00:05 | -!- | sdh [sdh@csociety.ecn.purdue.edu] has left #mythtv ["bye"] |
| 00:05 | <Chutt> | bbeattie, the guy that submitted that patch for the pchdtv mpegts stuff someone you know? |
| 00:06 | -!- | sc00p__ [~sc00p@adsl-154-152-56.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] |
| 00:08 | <bbeattie> | Chutt: yes, been in contact with him and helped him get myth installed and going.. don't know him irl though |
| 00:08 | <Chutt> | ah, ok |
| 00:09 | <bbeattie> | Jchutt: doug isn't part of pcHDTV though.. .. that person I think is around here a bit though |
| 00:09 | -!- | mchou [~mchou@12-235-7-243.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:10 | <bbeattie> | Chutt: I'm not sure if you've spoken with him, I haven't been around when he's talked so... |
| 00:10 | <Chutt> | i don't think i have |
| 00:10 | <bbeattie> | .. I've been having 12-16 hour work days, and have had 0 time mostly to do support, so others are stepping in which is very helpful for everyone |
| 00:11 | <bbeattie> | .. Dougs patch though isn't showing any improvements for me though.. But I am having antenna problems tonight so I'll just blame the antenna |
| 00:12 | <mikegrb> | give me irssi any day :) |
| 00:12 | <mikegrb> | er |
| 00:13 | <bbeattie> | Chutt: it probably fixes problems and now there are new ones that were really there before and I never got to. |
| 00:13 | -!- | omegahamlet [dakeyrus@ephesus.rh.rit.edu] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:14 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 00:14 | <Chutt> | well, i'll get that into cvs soon |
| 00:14 | -!- | Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: hEximal, nulltank, accurate, Edgan, cesman, tdb30_, dakeyrus |
| 00:16 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: accurate, hEximal, nulltank, cesman, Edgan, tdb30_ |
| 00:16 | -!- | ServerMode/#mythtv [+b *!*mythtv@*.client.attbi.com] by capek.freenode.net |
| 00:18 | <bbeattie> | 'night |
| 00:18 | -!- | bbeattie [~mythtv@cpe-66-1-180-69.ut.sprintbbd.net] has quit ["Client Exiting"] |
| 00:19 | <bline> | heh forgot about that ban |
| 00:20 | -!- | dopez [~unknown@dopez.xs4all.nl] has quit ["nn"] |
| 00:20 | <Chutt> | i'm too lazy to remove it |
| 00:20 | -!- | Timon [~dan@157-11-237-24.gci.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 00:21 | <Chutt> | that'd involve authenticating and stuff |
| 00:21 | <bline> | heh |
| 00:21 | <bline> | that guy was an idiot |
| 00:22 | <warlord> | hmm, client.attbi.com seems to include a LOT of address space, no? |
| 00:22 | <Chutt> | sure, but it's restricted to that user name |
| 00:22 | <warlord> | true.. |
| 00:23 | <Timon> | Thanks for getting my mythgame patch applied ChaosExiguum |
| 00:23 | <Timon> | err Chutt |
| 00:23 | <warlord> | heh |
| 00:23 | <Chutt> | thanks for making it :p |
| 00:23 | <Timon> | heh |
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| 00:28 | <Timon> | I'm trying to work up the motivation to work on the lcd management daemon for myth |
| 00:29 | <warlord> | a least common denominator daemon? |
| 00:29 | <Chutt> | yes, that's it exactly |
| 00:30 | <Timon> | liquid crystal display |
| 00:30 | <warlord> | :) |
| 00:38 | | * warlord likes causing trouble just before heading to bed ;) |
| 00:38 | <warlord> | g'night |
| 00:38 | -!- | warlord is now known as warlord-afk |
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| 02:07 | <josephk> | pvr 350's hiding on amazon...hehe |
| 02:08 | <Timon> | how much? |
| 02:08 | <josephk> | 180 |
| 02:08 | <Timon> | Thats not to bad. |
| 02:08 | <josephk> | considering...no...183 on newegg and 187 on buy.com...not in stock |
| 02:09 | <josephk> | we'll see if they actually have them though |
| 02:09 | <Timon> | heh |
| 02:09 | <Timon> | buddy of mind bought a 250 6 or so months ago for $150. |
| 02:09 | <Timon> | So $180 now for the 350 doesn't seem bad. |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | 250 |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | 's are at 130 |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | new |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | 350 |
| 02:10 | <Timon> | if I recall correctly, the 350 as $250 when he bought the 250 |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | 's are ridiculous to find |
| 02:10 | <josephk> | don't doubt it |
| 02:11 | -!- | StarHeart [edgan@64-42-21-228.atgi.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] |
| 02:11 | <Timon> | how so ( I havn't followed them. But I've been a fan of haupage (sp?) for a while) |
| 02:11 | <josephk> | well I've tried recently and not found them...was interested after tv out was reported working and supporting true interlaced |
| 02:12 | <Timon> | why not just get the pc hdtv card? |
| 02:12 | <Chutt> | that doesn't do output |
| 02:13 | <Timon> | ahhh |
| 02:13 | <josephk> | I'm a real jerk when it comes to output |
| 02:13 | <Timon> | How long though until they have one that has output. . . |
| 02:13 | <Timon> | I'm not picky. Until 2 months ago, I had a 14 year old 19" tv :-) |
| 02:14 | <josephk> | well my tv is actually an arcade monitor...but I don't want to rely on a device that I likely can't replace |
| 02:15 | <Timon> | Got a 32" wega now, they are nice. |
| 02:16 | <josephk> | its only 29 |
| 02:16 | <josephk> | but does 1024 |
| 02:16 | <Timon> | 29" Oh the inhumanity :-) |
| 02:16 | <josephk> | not even 720p so not really worth hdtv |
| 02:16 | <josephk> | hehe |
| 02:17 | <josephk> | 32 WEGA is definitely nice |
| 02:17 | <josephk> | wouldn't mind trading...hehe |
| 02:17 | <Timon> | Tell me about it. I dig it |
| 02:17 | <Timon> | I would :-) |
| 02:18 | <josephk> | what are they down to now? |
| 02:18 | <Timon> | I got the demo for $600. new for $700 |
| 02:18 | <josephk> | oh nevermind...I'll check |
| 02:18 | <josephk> | daaamn |
| 02:19 | <josephk> | 695.99 on buy.com |
| 02:19 | <josephk> | can I get the truck model?...lol |
| 02:19 | <Timon> | My gawd, why is it that some lamma with front page thinks they are a web developer. |
| 02:20 | <josephk> | true web developers use vi ...lol |
| 02:21 | <Timon> | bah, notepad :-) |
| 02:21 | <Timon> | better yet, dos edit.com :-) |
| 02:21 | <josephk> | bbedit! |
| 02:21 | <Timon> | tried it once, didn't care for it |
| 02:21 | <josephk> | dreamweaver is fun...hehe |
| 02:21 | <Timon> | homesite is nice |
| 02:21 | <Timon> | I hate dreamweaver |
| 02:22 | <Timon> | hate it with a passion |
| 02:22 | <josephk> | haha |
| 02:22 | <josephk> | I hate frontpage |
| 02:22 | <Timon> | brb, neeed another beer |
| 02:22 | <Timon> | agreede |
| 02:22 | <Timon> | err agreed |
| 02:23 | <tmk> | chutt: you around? |
| 02:23 | <josephk> | he was a minute ago |
| 02:25 | <josephk> | if I say nvidia tv out blows he'll come running;) |
| 02:26 | <Timon> | why do you think it blows? |
| 02:26 | <josephk> | I don't |
| 02:26 | <Timon> | ok :-) |
| 02:27 | <tmk> | chutt: i was wrong about the skip thing being fixed |
| 02:27 | <tmk> | unfortunately :/ |
| 02:28 | <josephk> | I can't wait until I get my pvr 350 and tmk says output is broken forever |
| 02:28 | <Timon> | heh, I can't wait until my case/mb/chip/etc gets here this week. |
| 02:28 | <Timon> | bought the coolermaster atc-610 case. Freakin sweat case |
| 02:29 | <josephk> | nice case |
| 02:29 | <josephk> | mine is just a lian li pc7 |
| 02:30 | <josephk> | I put my mac in the pc61b...lol |
| 02:31 | <josephk> | its such a waste |
| 02:31 | <Timon> | you have a link for that case? |
| 02:31 | <Chutt> | tmk, i _hopefully_ should be done with most of my work stuff tomorrow sometime |
| 02:31 | <Timon> | I've wanted the atc-610 for a while. but its freaking $199. Found it for $109 on directron.com so I snapped it up. |
| 02:32 | <tmk> | chutt: thanks |
| 02:32 | <josephk> | http://www.lianli.com/11302001jcL_pc_case/jclpccase/new2001_11-12_pc_case/pc66_61.html |
| 02:32 | <tmk> | chutt: i can't think of what it could be |
| 02:32 | <josephk> | looks better in person |
| 02:32 | <tmk> | i even hit the '10 minute rewind button' |
| 02:33 | <tmk> | then the 45 sec ff button |
| 02:33 | <tmk> | and it skipped forwards 10 mins |
| 02:33 | <tmk> | so i was back where i started |
| 02:33 | <tmk> | which is an ok workaround i suppose |
| 02:33 | <josephk> | all cases... http://www.lianli.com/11302001jcL_pc_case/jclpccase/products.html |
| 02:33 | <Timon> | josephk: Umm, as a desktop its nice, but not sitting next to my reciever. IHMO |
| 02:33 | <Timon> | err IMHO |
| 02:34 | <josephk> | yeah I know...thats why I want my slower mini-atx doing everything |
| 02:34 | <tmk> | i'm gonna make my own case |
| 02:34 | <tmk> | : |
| 02:34 | <tmk> | err :P |
| 02:35 | <josephk> | well I was going to redesign the front in acrylic but I keep changing projects before I finish anything |
| 02:35 | <Timon> | tmk: Use frozen Nitrogen (can't think of what its called) |
| 02:35 | <josephk> | magnesium...it's all the rage...lol |
| 02:35 | <tmk> | chutt: it seems to be ff'ding the amount of time since the last ff (ie if i watch 10 mins then ff, it skips 10 mins) |
| 02:35 | <tmk> | eh? |
| 02:35 | <tmk> | nah i'll probably use acrylic |
| 02:36 | <Timon> | josephk: Magnesium is HIGHLY flamable. |
| 02:36 | <tmk> | buy an old broken tape deck for the body |
| 02:36 | <tmk> | timon: only at super-hi temperatures |
| 02:36 | <Timon> | tmk: I thought you could light it with a match? |
| 02:36 | <tmk> | and it makes a nice bright light too |
| 02:36 | <tmk> | err i guess you're right |
| 02:37 | <josephk> | well I guess it would be an alloy |
| 02:37 | <tmk> | bedtime for me |
| 02:37 | <josephk> | tmk heads to bed, with visions of pvr cases dancing in his head |
| 02:37 | <Timon> | I seem to remember civilian planes built back in ww2 were build with magnesium. And a band was in one of them in the 60's when the plane caught fire. |
| 02:37 | <tmk> | nah |
| 02:38 | <tmk> | i know what it looks like already |
| 02:38 | <tmk> | already designed |
| 02:38 | <tmk> | doh. poor band |
| 02:38 | | * Timon heads to bed with visions of a hangover + Economics 201 dancing in his head |
| 02:38 | <tmk> | but they shouldn't have been smoking |
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| 02:39 | <thor_> | did someone say economics? |
| 02:39 | <accurate> | economics |
| 02:39 | <Timon> | thor_: Yeah, I'm taking econ 201 at the U. I'm going to bomb the course |
| 02:40 | <thor_> | introductory micro? |
| 02:40 | <josephk> | economics makes me tired |
| 02:40 | <Timon> | thor_: combined micro and macro |
| 02:40 | <Timon> | josephk: You know who ben stein is? Thats what my professer is like, only WORSE. |
| 02:41 | <josephk> | my wife has a degree in economics...she makes me tired too...lol |
| 02:41 | <thor_> | Timon, do the assignments |
| 02:41 | <Timon> | Dude droned on and on about some stupid fee he could get added to the course catalog |
| 02:41 | <Timon> | err catelo |
| 02:41 | <Timon> | g |
| 02:41 | <josephk> | don't question the example of competing gas stations never having different prices |
| 02:41 | <Timon> | thor_: I'm doing them, I could tell you what comprises real GDP and nominal GDP |
| 02:41 | <josephk> | unless you have pictures |
| 02:42 | <Timon> | gas, I have gas :-) |
| 02:42 | <thor_> | I've taught "fundamentals" and intro micro/macro at 3 universities ... people who do the assignments (really do them, not copy from friends) always do fine |
| 02:43 | <josephk> | what's so fun about it |
| 02:43 | <Timon> | thor_: I dont' know a single person who's taking econ. I started college 7 years after graduation high school |
| 02:43 | <thor_> | Timon, good ... what textbook you using? |
| 02:44 | <thor_> | (authors) |
| 02:44 | <Timon> | bade and parkins |
| 02:44 | <Timon> | fundimentals of econmentals |
| 02:44 | <thor_> | ah, western |
| 02:44 | <josephk> | ok, I have to get up for work...if I hear any more about economics I may never awaken |
| 02:44 | <Timon> | err economentics (sp? I've had 5 beers) |
| 02:44 | <Timon> | josephk: hahah |
| 02:44 | <josephk> | night night, or day day, whatever floats your time zone |
| 02:44 | <Timon> | nite josephk |
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| 02:45 | <thor_> | Timon, how's your calculus? |
| 02:46 | <Timon> | What calculus :-) |
| 02:46 | <Timon> | I've forgotten how to add fractions :-) |
| 02:46 | <thor_> | ah ... |
| 02:46 | <Timon> | That is until I started my beginning/intermediate algebra class |
| 02:47 | <Timon> | I forgot how to solve for x :( |
| 02:47 | <Timon> | I remember now. |
| 02:47 | <thor_> | you just taking one econ course? |
| 02:47 | <thor_> | (not majoring or anything) |
| 02:47 | <Timon> | thor_: Yeah. My major is MIS |
| 02:48 | <thor_> | ok, forget calculus |
| 02:48 | <thor_> | do the assingments |
| 02:48 | <thor_> | you'll be fine |
| 02:49 | <Timon> | I've been doing them. Still don't know how to do all this crap. I remember stuff thats easy / common knowledge, but I couldnt'[ tell you how to calculate nominial GDP |
| 02:50 | <thor_> | nominal/real is not that hard |
| 02:51 | <Timon> | whats an easy way to remember it? |
| 02:51 | <thor_> | double the price of everything, and nominal GDP doubles |
| 02:51 | <thor_> | real GDP is unchanged |
| 02:51 | <Timon> | so what changes real GDP? |
| 02:51 | <thor_> | making more stuff |
| 02:52 | <Timon> | Ok |
| 02:52 | <Timon> | quantity supplied changes real gdp? |
| 02:52 | <thor_> | quantity produced |
| 02:52 | <thor_> | yup |
| 02:52 | <thor_> | real GDP changes means there's more stuff made |
| 02:53 | <Timon> | how is produced different than supplied? Or is there no difference |
| 02:53 | <Timon> | real gdp == stuff |
| 02:53 | <thor_> | yup |
| 02:53 | <Timon> | shift of the supply axis. |
| 02:53 | <Timon> | ? |
| 02:54 | <thor_> | perhaps |
| 02:54 | <thor_> | the problem is, you can't go and measure real GDp |
| 02:54 | <thor_> | cause everything is measured in $'s |
| 02:55 | <thor_> | and $'s ain't stuff |
| 02:55 | <thor_> | make more cars, GDP goes up |
| 02:56 | <thor_> | make cars more expensive, GDP goes up |
| 02:56 | <thor_> | which is real, which is nominal? |
| 02:58 | <DogBoy> | hehe tv out on the nvidia card didn't start working until the monitor cable fell off the back of the computer |
| 02:58 | <DogBoy> | I guess I should read the driver instructions |
| 02:58 | <DogBoy> | should have anyway |
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| 05:13 | <sfr> | in the US, do you also have to setup your channels via mythfilldatabase --manual or --xawtv or can you use the xmltv listing for that? |
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| 05:23 | <o_cee> | stupid people |
| 05:24 | <overridex> | yeah, bungholes. |
| 05:24 | <sfr> | ?? |
| 05:24 | <o_cee> | all the broken threads in -users |
| 05:24 | <o_cee> | pita |
| 05:24 | <o_cee> | and the threads inside threads |
| 05:26 | <sfr> | ah ok. anyone knows that: in the US, do you also have to setup your channels via mythfilldatabase --manual or --xawtv or can you use the xmltv listing for that? i guess they are all still in bed. |
| 05:26 | <o_cee> | i think all info is in the xml |
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| 05:41 | <o_cee> | [mythtv-users] changing channels <-- there we go again, posted in another thread. |
| 05:41 | <overridex> | o_cee: ugh... |
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| 05:58 | <o_cee> | good mail Jarod, if you're here |
| 06:52 | | * o_cee is away: Gone |
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| 07:38 | <overridex> | anyone here use nuvexport? |
| 07:39 | <overridex> | wondering what ffmpeg version you have if you do... |
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| 07:50 | | * overridex is away: sleep |
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| 09:01 | | * o_cee is back (gone 02:09:05) |
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| 09:26 | <Lad> | zaheer |
| 09:26 | <zaheerm> | hi lad |
| 09:26 | <Lad> | hi |
| 09:26 | <Lad> | cool |
| 09:26 | <Lad> | very nice |
| 09:27 | <zaheerm> | you upgraded to mythweb 0.11 yet? |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | ? |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | i have been on 0.11 since the week it was released |
| 09:27 | <zaheerm> | no |
| 09:27 | <zaheerm> | mythweb |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | oh mythweb |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | yea |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | i did |
| 09:27 | <zaheerm> | what you say crashes backend? |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | its very nice |
| 09:27 | <Lad> | especially the pop-ups |
| 09:28 | <Lad> | but the backend crashd a few times while i was accessing the thing.... i'm not sure exactly what was going on... didnt look into too detail at the time |
| 09:29 | <Lad> | gotto go |
| 09:29 | <Lad> | c ya |
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| 10:01 | <o_cee> | Chutt: you got time for a oneliner patch for mythweb or should i send it to the list? |
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| 10:10 | <o_cee> | mail sent |
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| 10:21 | <o_cee> | found another thing as well, but i need help with the php in that case.. will have to get back about that one.. |
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| 10:43 | <jkolb> | o_cee: What's the other thing you found? |
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| 11:12 | <rkulagow> | chutt: are you here? |
| 11:18 | <Chutt> | rkulagow, yup |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | Got the following in mythfrontend when I tried to go and delete "Sesame Street" |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: Parentheses expected, slot PlaybackBox::doDelete |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: (sender name: 'unnamed') |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: (receiver name: 'delete') |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: Parentheses expected, slot PlaybackBox::doDelete |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: (sender name: 'unnamed') |
| 11:18 | <rkulagow> | QObject::connect: (receiver name: 'delete') |
| 11:19 | <Chutt> | hmm |
| 11:19 | <rkulagow> | cvs, make distclean, maked everything on frontend and backend. |
| 11:19 | -!- | mecraw [~mecraw@69.2.235.2] has joined #mythtv |
| 11:19 | <rkulagow> | right before this, i had gone to "sesame street" and changed the "max keep" to "1", auto-expire, etc. |
| 11:19 | <rkulagow> | running in gdb |
| 11:21 | <Chutt> | hmm |
| 11:21 | <Chutt> | i may have missed something in the changes last night |
| 11:21 | <Chutt> | lemme wake up first |
| 11:21 | <Chutt> | =) |
| 11:21 | <rkulagow> | sure. |
| 11:22 | <rkulagow> | ah, just saw in the masterbackend window that it's expiring Sesame Street episodes: |
| 11:22 | <rkulagow> | 2003-10-02 10:12:53 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-30T10:00:00, too many episodes. |
| 11:22 | <rkulagow> | 2003-10-02 10:12:56 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-29T10:00:00, too many episodes. |
| 11:22 | <rkulagow> | 2003-10-02 10:12:58 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-28T07:00:00, too many episodes. |
| 11:22 | <rkulagow> | 2003-10-02 10:13:03 Expiring "Sesame Street" from 2003-09-26T10:00:00, too many episodes. |
| 11:22 | <Chutt> | yeah, but it should be able to kill it =) |
| 11:22 | <DogBoy> | how about tellitubbies? |
| 11:22 | <Chutt> | that's a coding problem |
| 11:24 | <rkulagow> | in the frontend (i'm on the "delete recordings" screen) the old episodes are still there. moved highlight back to the left, went to a different program node, then back to sesame street. programs are still there, meaning that it didn't refresh? |
| 11:24 | <Chutt> | hmm |
| 11:24 | <Chutt> | they gone if you leave/reenter the screen |
| 11:24 | <Chutt> | ? |
| 11:24 | <kvandivo> | ya mikegrb... take _that_! |
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| 11:30 | <rkulagow> | let me check. brb. |
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| 11:53 | <rkulagow> | chutt: yes, if i exit the delete recordings screen then go back in the expired recordings are gone. |
| 11:54 | -!- | o_c is now known as o_cee |
| 11:54 | <Chutt> | ok |
| 11:54 | <Chutt> | so it's not sending the 'hey, buddy, reload the program list' message |
| 11:54 | -!- | warlord-afk is now known as warlord |
| 11:55 | <warlord> | actually, the "i'm recording a new program" function doesn't send the "hey, buddy, reload the program list" message either. I just assumed that the screen didn't auto-reload while you were on it. |
| 11:56 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 11:56 | <Chutt> | yeah, that should as well |
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| 12:05 | <chico2> | hello everybuddy..is anyone using an Asus A7N8X deluxe mobo? |
| 12:06 | -!- | PNY [[0Xau4DXH3@ua112d35hel.dial.kolumbus.fi] has joined #mythtv |
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| 12:13 | <PNY> | Hi Steele. |
| 12:15 | <chico2> | will the PVR-250 take the cable signal straight from the box in the wall and decode ALL the channels including tehones i dont pay for? |
| 12:15 | <steelep> | hi pny |
| 12:15 | <chico2> | i ask cos i am unsure how it will interact with the cable signal, my current GE box is hacked and i have all the channels for free |
| 12:15 | -!- | tmk [~tmk@12-234-205-129.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 12:15 | <chico2> | wouldnt want to lose that |
| 12:16 | <steelep> | the pvr250 doesn't decode anything |
| 12:17 | <chico2> | but it says it's cable ready ? |
| 12:17 | <steelep> | you would need dvb for that |
| 12:17 | <chico2> | whats a dvb? |
| 12:17 | <warlord> | depends how the channels are "encoded" |
| 12:17 | <steelep> | rtfaq |
| 12:17 | <warlord> | the pvr-250 will only show channels you would get WITHOUT a cable box -- what do you see when you plug the cable directly to a TV? |
| 12:17 | <PNY> | steele, managed to meet the deadline you had yesterday? |
| 12:18 | <chico2> | i have never tried =) |
| 12:18 | <steelep> | hell no :) |
| 12:18 | <o_cee> | that's the spirit :) |
| 12:18 | <steelep> | i'm bracing for the hurricane that is about to decend on my office |
| 12:18 | | * o_cee is away: food |
| 12:18 | <warlord> | HOWEVER, you COULD hook the output from the cablebox into the input of the PVR, and use a serial cable or IR blaster to get myth to change the channel for you. |
| 12:18 | <chico2> | warlord: thats what i thought i had to do |
| 12:18 | <sfr> | rkulagow: hi. when setting up myth in the US, you don't bother setting up your channels but simply run mythfilldatabase after mythsetup? |
| 12:19 | <chico2> | but i read on the hauppage site "125 channel cable read" so i was just hoping =) |
| 12:19 | <warlord> | well, it is... but it wont decode 'encrypted' channels |
| 12:19 | <warlord> | For example, I have channels 2-97 pretty much 'unencrypted' |
| 12:19 | <warlord> | so the -250 reads all of those just fine. |
| 12:19 | <steelep> | dvb-c + softcam would do it, but it's not in mythtv |
| 12:20 | <chico2> | oh, so i will need a uirt then |
| 12:20 | <warlord> | uirt? |
| 12:21 | <chico2> | umm, the infared transmitter thing? lol, newbie here |
| 12:21 | <warlord> | AHH. |
| 12:21 | <chico2> | using girder to control teh cable box |
| 12:22 | <warlord> | Ah.. I just use a serial cable to control my cablebox, but I've got a motorola dct2k |
| 12:22 | <steelep> | girder is a windows app |
| 12:22 | <chico2> | i havnt yet built my machie especially for mythtv.. |
| 12:22 | <steelep> | lirc is it's linux equivalemt |
| 12:22 | <chico2> | and i have no idea what a motorola dct2k is ;) |
| 12:22 | <chico2> | yep lirc is what i meant =) |
| 12:22 | <warlord> | it's a cablebox model |
| 12:23 | <warlord> | "motorola" is a small electronics company.. |
| 12:23 | <chico2> | "small" |
| 12:23 | <warlord> | dct2k == dct2xxx == box model.. |
| 12:23 | <chico2> | meaning "HUGE" |
| 12:23 | <warlord> | Well, you said you have no idea what it is ;) |
| 12:23 | <steelep> | actually ALL electronics are pretty 'small' |
| 12:23 | <chico2> | lol, WHAT it is, not who they are |
| 12:24 | <chico2> | electronics may be small, but the companies, quite big i assume |
| 12:24 | <warlord> | <warlord> it's a cablebox model |
| 12:24 | <chico2> | i know |
| 12:24 | <chico2> | mine is general electric |
| 12:24 | <steelep> | depends how you look at it... 'small electronics' company or small 'electronics company' |
| 12:25 | <chico2> | lol i spose ur right |
| 12:25 | <chico2> | well, i have loads of questions |
| 12:25 | <chico2> | if i may...? |
| 12:26 | <chico2> | yes?! great! whats the capture quality like at best on teh PVR-250? |
| 12:26 | <chico2> | is there any card better at the job? |
| 12:27 | -!- | cesman [~cesman@64.30.204.165] has joined #mythtv |
| 12:27 | <cesman> | hello everyone |
| 12:27 | <chico2> | hello cesman |
| 12:28 | <cesman> | hi chico2 |
| 12:28 | <chico2> | it looks like there are peopel in here, but i believe they are like the fake people in stadiums you find in movies, used to fill the image, but not actually doing anything |
| 12:28 | <tmk> | heh |
| 12:28 | <cesman> | :-) |
| 12:28 | <chico2> | or answering your newbie questions |
| 12:28 | <tmk> | chico2: i hear the pvr250's have good quality |
| 12:28 | <tmk> | better than most |
| 12:28 | <cesman> | tmk:how is it going? |
| 12:28 | <tmk> | but i've only used a 250/350, never anything helse |
| 12:28 | <tmk> | hiya |
| 12:29 | <chico2> | thankyou tmk, your answer means i shall be buying it, my bank manager will be visiting you soon ;) |
| 12:29 | <tmk> | ok |
| 12:30 | <chico2> | thanks 4 ur help EVERYONE (yes u fakies!) bye! |
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| 12:30 | | * kvandivo crawls out from behind the box where he was hiding. |
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| 12:33 | <Chutt> | tmk, yo |
| 12:33 | <tmk> | sup chuttly |
| 12:33 | <Chutt> | are you on your ivtv-users list? |
| 12:33 | <tmk> | no |
| 12:34 | <Chutt> | ah |
| 12:34 | <Chutt> | someone cc'd a bug report to mythtv-users and ivtv-users |
| 12:34 | <Chutt> | something in the msp driver |
| 12:36 | <tmk> | i'll check |
| 12:36 | <tmk> | thx |
| 12:36 | <thor_> | was -user down for a while? |
| 12:36 | <Chutt> | it's a decent bug report, so i didn't want it to go unseen =) |
| 12:42 | <tmk> | is that the 'no audio with pvr250' therad |
| 12:44 | <Chutt> | yes |
| 12:47 | <tmk> | he's fixed it already |
| 12:47 | <tmk> | jsut needed to update CVS |
| 12:47 | <tmk> | though i fear it will resurface |
| 12:48 | <Chutt> | ah, cool. |
| 12:48 | <tmk> | i think it's probably autodetection in europe being flaky |
| 12:48 | -!- | Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has joined #mythtv |
| 12:48 | <tmk> | most euros will need to specify a standard for the msp chip for it to work right |
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| 12:50 | <tmk> | ugh |
| 12:50 | <tmk> | i know the answer to dirk's question |
| 12:50 | <tmk> | but am not on -users |
| 12:50 | <tmk> | hmmm |
| 12:50 | <tmk> | to sign up or not to sign |
| 12:50 | <jkolb> | Tell someone who is on -users the answer. |
| 12:55 | <tmk> | anyone in here on -users want to answer for me? |
| 13:03 | <jkolb> | Ok, so maybe that won't work. |
| 13:03 | <tmk> | :) |
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| 13:18 | <Magick> | it's been so long since I've used BitchX... I've forgotten how to detach it into a screen |
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| 15:18 | <kvandivo> | you know.. reading the mails that get set to -user is constantly enlightening me to new things that people record and ways that they do it |
| 15:19 | -!- | Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has joined #mythtv |
| 15:21 | <Chutt> | wonder where rkulagow is |
| 15:21 | <Chutt> | bruce markey just sent me a patch that fixes his delete bug |
| 15:21 | | * tmk looks behind kvandivo |
| 15:21 | <tmk> | nope, not there |
| 15:21 | | * kvandivo smirks. |
| 15:21 | <Chutt> | tmk, you've got mail, soon |
| 15:21 | <tmk> | ooh |
| 15:21 | <Chutt> | not the seeking stuff. |
| 15:21 | | * kvandivo pictured in his mind the AOL guy saying, 'You've got mail'... soon.. |
| 15:22 | <Chutt> | fix for the v4l2 crap |
| 15:22 | <tmk> | ah cool |
| 15:22 | <tmk> | thanks |
| 15:22 | <Chutt> | sent it to the -dev list a little bit ago, hasn't shown up yet |
| 15:22 | <tmk> | oh i'm on dev as a poster |
| 15:22 | <tmk> | i have delivery disabled |
| 15:22 | <tmk> | or you mean ivtv-dev |
| 15:22 | <Chutt> | yeah |
| 15:22 | <Chutt> | ivtv-dev |
| 15:24 | <tmk> | k |
| 15:24 | <tmk> | against decoder-alpha right |
| 15:24 | <Chutt> | of course |
| 15:25 | <Chutt> | though i don't see why it'd apply to normal cvs |
| 15:25 | <tmk> | you mean "woudln't" i presume |
| 15:25 | <Chutt> | it wouldn't apply |
| 15:25 | <Chutt> | rather |
| 15:25 | <Chutt> | yeah |
| 15:25 | <tmk> | hehe |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | hows the free-cycles for the ffd problem |
| 15:26 | <Chutt> | soon |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | good |
| 15:26 | <Chutt> | this only took like 5 minutes, so i churned it out |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | my only idea at this point |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | is that it has a leftover value for framesPlayed |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | that it's adding to framesplayed |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | somehow |
| 15:26 | <tmk> | since it seems to skip forward the amount of time you request, plus the amount of time since you last ff'd |
| 15:26 | <Chutt> | is there any better way to get where it's at playback-wise? |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | it's returnign the correct frame # now |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | there's pts |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | but that's synced to frames i think |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | it returns the rigth # of frames played |
| 15:27 | <Chutt> | does that stuff you sent to not have it take over the console work? |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | it might be a thread problem perhaps |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | no :/ |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | though i did put in soemthing to zero the use count |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | but that doesn't work right either |
| 15:27 | <tmk> | it crashes on unload |
| 15:28 | | * tmk shakes his fist at the fb-developers |
| 15:28 | <tmk> | i wonder if there's a dummyfb driver |
| 15:29 | <Chutt> | that'd be cool |
| 15:29 | <Chutt> | load that first |
| 15:31 | <tmk> | yea |
| 15:31 | <tmk> | hmmm |
| 15:31 | <tmk> | i have an i810 mobo |
| 15:31 | <tmk> | i thnk there's an fb driver fro that |
| 15:31 | <tmk> | else i could just modify ivtv-fb to be standalone |
| 15:32 | <tmk> | and vmalloc some memory for the fb |
| 15:32 | <Chutt> | you fix it to depend on fbcon-cfb32 yet? :p |
| 15:32 | <tmk> | forgot about that |
| 15:32 | <tmk> | doesn't complain on my system |
| 15:33 | <Chutt> | you probably compiled it into the kernel |
| 15:33 | <tmk> | nope |
| 15:33 | <tmk> | module |
| 15:33 | <tmk> | hmm |
| 15:34 | <tmk> | neverimd |
| 15:34 | <tmk> | i told it module |
| 15:34 | <tmk> | but it doesn't listen |
| 15:36 | <tmk> | gotta love sf.net |
| 15:36 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 15:36 | <Chutt> | want me to send that patch offlist? |
| 15:37 | <Chutt> | anon cvs is fixed, at least |
| 15:37 | <tmk> | yeah |
| 15:37 | <tmk> | send it |
| 15:38 | <kvandivo> | for those of you that got in on that $29 dell 200 gig drive deal a few days ago.. http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=cc_order_status&message.id=69555 |
| 15:38 | <tmk> | wt |
| 15:39 | <tmk> | how come nobody told me about that |
| 15:39 | <Chutt> | because it wasn't real :p |
| 15:40 | <tmk> | oh ok |
| 15:40 | <tmk> | :) |
| 15:40 | <Chutt> | sent |
| 15:40 | <Chutt> | hmm |
| 15:41 | <Chutt> | no, nevermind |
| 15:41 | <Chutt> | couldn't send it |
| 15:41 | <tmk> | that's a problem |
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| 15:41 | <kvandivo> | you could try some of that extreme programming stuff, IRC style |
| 15:42 | <kvandivo> | you know.. the pair programming stuff.. |
| 15:43 | <Chutt> | i knew a guy in school that was really into xp |
| 15:43 | -!- | steelep [~signwatch@69.26.192.55] has joined #mythtv |
| 15:43 | <Chutt> | he couldn't code worth shit, though |
| 15:43 | <mikegrb> | Chutt: you said that on the first line ;) |
| 15:44 | | * kvandivo giggles. |
| 15:44 | <kvandivo> | no matter how you define 'xp', the second line is inferred, huh? |
| 15:45 | <kvandivo> | mikegrb.. my little red xbox led has been faithfully telling me when the backend is busy recording.. pretty cute |
| 15:45 | <mikegrb> | yes |
| 15:45 | <mikegrb> | :) |
| 15:45 | <mikegrb> | it lets me know when it is safe to compile big stuff :) |
| 15:46 | <Chutt> | apparently mail.speakeasy.net's smtp server's dead |
| 15:46 | | * sfr wants one too (a red led) |
| 15:47 | <mikegrb> | sfr: they have them at best buy, etc... $179 ;) |
| 15:48 | | * mikegrb got a dvd burner last night :) still in the box though <g> been too busy working on some database stuff for the xbox-linux site |
| 15:48 | <sfr> | hu? that much for a tiny little led. they cost 20 eurocent here. |
| 15:48 | <mikegrb> | sfr: it comes with a free xbox |
| 15:48 | | * kvandivo throws back his head and cackles with insane glee. |
| 15:49 | <sfr> | and microsoft sponsors it. but i don't want/need another box in the living room. |
| 15:50 | <mikegrb> | kvandivo: don't know how close you follow xbox-linux stuff but within two days of posting a notice on the website about needing someone with an xbox with the new focus chipset for vga->tv-out we have someone sending one in :) |
| 15:51 | <kvandivo> | nice.... i bounce by there every few days.. i typically check xbox-scene daily, though.. they seem to mirror most news items from xbox-linux |
| 15:51 | <mikegrb> | he ordered it from gamespot.com lives in ohio, received it yesterday and mailed it this morning to germany |
| 15:51 | -!- | SarahEmm [~SarahEmm@Toronto-HSE-ppp3685610.sympatico.ca] has joined #mythtv |
| 15:52 | <mikegrb> | sfr: don't need another box :) xbox runs mythtv great |
| 15:52 | <kvandivo> | i might have to actually close mythfrontend on my xbox before too long. cinemaware is releasing 'Defender of the Crown' on the xbox soon. that was my favorite game back on the c64, and i'm awaiting its arrival. it'll be the first actual game i've bought for the xbox |
| 15:53 | <SarahEmm> | i'm (still) trying to get mythtv running on this new box, i'm getting slow jerky video and lots of 'Delaying to next trigger' messages. xawtv works okay, and using_dma is on for the drive.. where else do i need to look? no other errors in dmesg or mythbackend.log |
| 15:53 | <mikegrb> | heh I think I have 10 or 12 games, haven't played any in a while |
| 15:53 | <mikegrb> | SarahEmm: you can try turning on 32bit mode also for the hard drive |
| 15:53 | <SarahEmm> | hrm, not true. |
| 15:53 | <SarahEmm> | there's a 'strange error flushing buffer' in backend log |
| 15:54 | <mikegrb> | that is from lame I believe |
| 15:54 | <SarahEmm> | mikegrb: what kind of drive throughput does it need for MPEG-4? i'm running benchmarks now to see if that might be the issue |
| 15:56 | <mikegrb> | not too heavy, hdparm -tT is broken on this system for some reason so I can't show you mine to compare |
| 15:56 | <kvandivo> | not much.. easy to figure that, at 3.6 gigs an hour, that's a meg a second.. and i suspect you aren't at 3.6 gigs an hour exactly |
| 15:57 | <mikegrb> | 612 MB in 2.00 seconds = 305.24 MB/sec <-- I seriously doubt that is correct |
| 15:57 | <SarahEmm> | ahh, 32bit was off |
| 15:57 | <kvandivo> | for cached, it very well could be, mg |
| 15:58 | <kvandivo> | having said that, cached isn't a very useful number.. |
| 15:58 | <SarahEmm> | Timing buffer-cache reads: 1200 MB in 2.00 seconds = 600.00 MB/sec |
| 15:58 | <mikegrb> | hmmm |
| 15:58 | <SarahEmm> | that's pretty fast heh |
| 15:58 | <kvandivo> | that cached.. what's the other number.. that's the only important one for this |
| 15:59 | <SarahEmm> | Timing buffered disk reads: 168 MB in 3.01 seconds = 55.81 MB/sec |
| 15:59 | <SarahEmm> | still slow motion video |
| 15:59 | <SarahEmm> | with 32bit on |
| 15:59 | <mikegrb> | that should certainly be adequate |
| 15:59 | <SarahEmm> | tried both MPEG4 and RT-JPEG, neither one is better |
| 16:00 | <mikegrb> | what capture card? |
| 16:00 | <SarahEmm> | bt848 - ati tv wonder |
| 16:00 | <mikegrb> | me too |
| 16:00 | <mikegrb> | processor and memory? |
| 16:00 | <tmk> | probably an audio thing |
| 16:00 | <SarahEmm> | 256MB, 1.7GHz celeron |
| 16:00 | <SarahEmm> | i'm runing the latest ALSA right now, intel810 |
| 16:02 | <mikegrb> | er wrong win |
| 16:02 | <mikegrb> | errr |
| 16:02 | <mikegrb> | heh I got same processor and memory |
| 16:02 | <SarahEmm> | ahh.. |
| 16:02 | <SarahEmm> | any way to tell if it's the audio causing a problem? |
| 16:03 | <mikegrb> | check the sample rate |
| 16:03 | <mikegrb> | do you have tv wonder or tv wonder ve? |
| 16:04 | <Chutt> | tmk, mail finally sent |
| 16:04 | <tmk> | woot |
| 16:05 | <SarahEmm> | was 44100, changed it to 48000 and 32000, no difference |
| 16:05 | <SarahEmm> | the regular TV wonder |
| 16:05 | <SarahEmm> | should i try setting up btaudio? |
| 16:05 | <SarahEmm> | hrm, that'd mean using OSS for btaudio and ALSA for the i810, is that possible? |
| 16:05 | <Chutt> | tmk, gonna be busy until after dinner now :( |
| 16:05 | <mikegrb> | I believe it is possible |
| 16:06 | <SarahEmm> | think that's worth a try then? |
| 16:06 | <Chutt> | and after that it depends on my wife if i have time to look into the ff issue |
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| 16:06 | <tmk> | np chutt |
| 16:07 | <tmk> | well i'd rather you spent time with her than with my bug |
| 16:07 | <tmk> | :) |
| 16:07 | <mikegrb> | SarahEmm: you might give it a shot, I'd try searching the users list as I've seen posts about slow playback and audio |
| 16:07 | <Chutt> | tmk, so, probably later tonight |
| 16:08 | <mikegrb> | you can also search a log of this irc channel at http://greb.ods.org/irc/ |
| 16:08 | <mikegrb> | modz I /believe/ it is 4 chips |
| 16:08 | <mikegrb> | er |
| 16:08 | <sfr> | mikegrb: yeah, wrong window :) |
| 16:08 | <mikegrb> | yup |
| 16:10 | <SarahEmm> | okie, thanks much, i'll play with it a bit more tomrrorow. work now, bye! |
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| 17:04 | <sfr> | did i already complain about this pointer crap today? relaxing while listening to www.radioparadise.com in mythmusic :) |
| 17:04 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 17:04 | <Chutt> | sfr, i forgot about your mythfilldatabase patch while i was applying patches last night. i'll get it in tonight |
| 17:05 | <sfr> | np. i'll made (again) some changes to the translations. will send them later/tomorrow. do you have an idea when you will make the 0.12 release? |
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| 17:10 | <Chutt> | not just yet |
| 17:10 | <Chutt> | the disconnect stuff is a little iffy still |
| 17:10 | <Chutt> | it needs more testing |
| 17:11 | <tmk> | Chutt: something to think about: i'll be putting yuv support for tv-out in soon-ish |
| 17:11 | <Chutt> | the videoout_xv.cpp class can be modified to use that fairly easily, i think |
| 17:11 | <tmk> | libavcodec outputs yuv right |
| 17:11 | <Chutt> | yup |
| 17:11 | <tmk> | hmm |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | not videoout_ivtv? |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | since the osd wil be the same deal |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | hmm |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | perhaps |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | but |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | or do you prefer software osd |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | i'll have to look at it |
| 17:12 | <sfr> | np. if its another 2 weeks (or so) away, i might submit a patch for streaming shoutcast/icecast (but prob. without gui support for setting them up, yet) |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | i'd probably just do software osd in that case |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | cool |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | did you get that email? |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | i got the one you sent |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | not to the lost |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | since it's not shown up on ivtv-dev yet |
| 17:12 | <tmk> | list |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | funky, oh well |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | i'll thow that in tongiht i guess |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | got a couple other patches i've been putting off |
| 17:13 | <Chutt> | thanks |
| 17:13 | <Chutt> | it'll help, at least =) |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | yea |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | does it patch the videodev2.h to new videodev2 |
| 17:13 | <Chutt> | yeah |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | k |
| 17:13 | <tmk> | are you moving myth to the new headers also then? |
| 17:13 | <Chutt> | check out the changes to ivtv-api.c |
| 17:14 | <tmk> | yeah i looked through it.. just wanted to be sure |
| 17:14 | <Chutt> | i'll move myth to the new header in a few weeks |
| 17:14 | <Chutt> | give people time to update |
| 17:14 | <tmk> | k |
| 17:14 | <Chutt> | since the driver handles both now |
| 17:14 | <tmk> | you've tested it i presume |
| 17:14 | <Chutt> | i've tested sending it the old ioctls |
| 17:14 | <tmk> | good enough for me |
| 17:14 | <Chutt> | when the driver's compiled with the new header |
| 17:15 | <Chutt> | haven't tested sending the new ioctls, but i can't see how that wouldn't work |
| 17:15 | <tmk> | k i need to get some work done |
| 17:15 | <tmk> | i'll be back later |
| 17:15 | <tmk> | too much irc today |
| 17:15 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 17:15 | <Chutt> | ok =) |
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| 18:10 | <sfr> | as i'm just watching a recording where false commercials were skipped during playback: is there an option to toggle commercial-skipping during playback? |
| 18:11 | <kvandivo> | whether there is or not, i don't know. that's a good idea, though, sfr |
| 18:12 | <Quintesse_> | Anybody on with knowledge about NuppleVideoPLayer and AvFormatDecoder and such? |
| 18:12 | <sfr> | yeah, but the tough part (for me) is to implement such ideas. |
| 18:13 | <Quintesse_> | Trying to track down a SEGFAULT during stream decoding but I'm gettin glost :-) |
| 18:16 | <kja> | Chutt: I think you made the Audio has Changed stuff a bit too hard to trigger with your latest patch.. |
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| 18:23 | <cbreen> | i'm having a heck of a time getting lirc to work with my wintv pvr250. anyone get this to work? |
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| 18:25 | <Chutt> | kja, needs to be harder, apparently |
| 18:26 | <Chutt> | sfr, i believe it's pretty easy to go into edit mode real quick and clear things out |
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| 18:28 | <sfr> | so the commercials are autom. loaded into the cutlist, if aut-skip is active? and i could have sworn the cutlist was empty when i checked it. |
| 18:29 | <Chutt> | i dunno |
| 18:29 | <Chutt> | that's what the 'i believe' was there for =) |
| 18:29 | <Chutt> | that'd be a good candidate for an osd menu item, though |
| 18:29 | <Chutt> | if i ever get around to writing such a thing |
| 18:30 | <sfr> | what about adding it to the show-rec. screen? to toggle it for the selected show. |
| 18:30 | <sfr> | that way there are no surprises while watching |
| 18:31 | <sfr> | and now Chutt will remind me about the scissors. |
| 18:31 | <Chutt> | heh |
| 18:31 | <Chutt> | ask captain_murdoch next time he's on |
| 18:31 | <Chutt> | there might already be something like that |
| 18:31 | <sfr> | i'll do that. |
| 18:52 | <kja> | Chutt, are there still people having problem with it? They might have broken mpegs... |
| 18:53 | <kja> | Chutt, and why did guessing on newpts in afd.cpp? It breaks my playback |
| 18:54 | <kja> | 'remove' should have been in there... |
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| 19:01 | <Quintesse_> | Repeating my earlier question: |
| 19:01 | <Quintesse_> | Anybody on with knowledge about NuppleVideoPLayer and AvFormatDecoder and such? |
| 19:01 | <Quintesse_> | I'm trying to track down a SEGFAULT during stream decoding but I'm getting lost :-) |
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| 19:06 | <kja> | Quintesse, i'm not very good at it, but what is the problem? |
| 19:16 | <Chutt> | kja, because it was really off? |
| 19:16 | <Chutt> | it wasn't a good guess. |
| 19:17 | <Quintesse_> | Problem is that I don't get the connection between the read ahead stuff and the code that reads the results of the read ahead. I need a way of telling the code that the read ahead encountered an error (lost connection for example) and it should just bail out. |
| 19:18 | <Quintesse_> | Problem is that the code jumps around a lot and there are multiple threads involved. And we probably all know how much Isaac loves to comment his code ;-) |
| 19:18 | <sfr> | hehe |
| 19:20 | <Quintesse_> | I'll admit it: I'm a GUI kind of guy, is there a xgdb or something? Using gdb is just taking up to much time and I rather spend time solving the problem instead of learning how to manage gdb well |
| 19:21 | <Chutt> | all you have to do is set eof to true. |
| 19:21 | <Chutt> | 'ateof = true;' |
| 19:22 | <Quintesse_> | Used 'stopreads = true' , shouldn't that do the same? |
| 19:22 | <Chutt> | no. |
| 19:24 | <Quintesse_> | I didn't use ateof because it seemed that the code later on expects everything to be okay, while what I need is to make it aware that soemthing has gone wrong. |
| 19:28 | <Quintesse_> | Problem is that it not using the code I was expecting it to. I put a message in safe_read() (the version using RemoteFile) but I'm not seeing it. So does it use the local file version? But why would it start a read ahead thread for that? |
| 19:29 | <Chutt> | slower machines still need it |
| 19:29 | <Chutt> | it always uses the remotefile version in live tv mode, though |
| 19:30 | <Quintesse_> | Ok, put the messages in the local file version as well and yes it seems that I got it now. |
| 19:31 | <Quintesse_> | So a read ahead thread is _always_ used. Aha, that explains things. |
| 19:37 | <Quintesse_> | @Chutt: so, you're absolutely sure I should _not_ tamper with the StopReads() function? I'm using it now in the safe_read() function to try to stop the live tv when the connection fails. (not that it works of course) |
| 19:49 | <Chutt> | well, i'm pretty sure you want to do it with the eof stuff |
| --- | Log | closed Thu Oct 02 19:54:26 2003 |
| --- | Log | opened Thu Oct 02 20:04:02 2003 |
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| --- | Log | opened Thu Oct 02 20:04:25 2003 |
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| 20:07 | <kja> | Chutt, it clearly was a better guess than notting, because now audio is lagging behind.. |
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| 20:16 | <Chutt> | constant amount? |
| 20:17 | <Chutt> | quintesse, essentially, yeah. |
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| 20:27 | <kja> | yea |
| 20:27 | <kja> | about a second or so |
| 20:28 | <kja> | gee, i want that via reference set-top box, the blue...nice! |
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| 20:42 | <Captain_Murdoch> | sfr, you still around? |
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| 20:44 | | * Captain_Murdoch has got to learn to check the userlist before responding to someone who posted hours ago. |
| 20:47 | <Captain_Murdoch> | hmm, newegg.com dropped the price on the M179 refurb to $39 now. $78 for two.. :) enticing... |
| 20:47 | <tmk> | heh |
| 20:47 | <Captain_Murdoch> | did you get a callback from those people (the call you referenced in the ivtv-dev channel) |
| 20:48 | <tmk> | nah they won't call till next monday |
| 20:48 | <Captain_Murdoch> | $78 for two might be a good gamble that you or someone else will get it working. :) |
| 20:49 | <Captain_Murdoch> | I bought a SCSI scanner about 6 years ago like that then just wrote the SANE driver for it myself. |
| 20:53 | <tmk> | Captain_Murdoch: it works already from what i understand |
| 20:53 | <tmk> | just need specs on the audio chip |
| 20:53 | <tmk> | ie it gets video, but no audio |
| 20:54 | <Captain_Murdoch> | yeah, I saw your posts on the mailing lists about that. was reading up on it yesterday. |
| 20:54 | <tmk> | someone might donate one |
| 20:54 | <tmk> | i'll know next week |
| 20:55 | <Captain_Murdoch> | I'm gonna go ahead and order two. if you can't a demo/freebee unit then I could loan/donate one. |
| 20:55 | <tmk> | cool thanks |
| 20:55 | <tmk> | i'll let you know |
| 20:56 | <extremis> | What command do I use to clear out the channel listings so I can mythfillda... again |
| 20:56 | <tmk> | setup |
| 20:56 | <extremis> | it drops all the old data out? |
| 20:56 | <tmk> | it gives you the option to delete channel and program info |
| 20:56 | <tmk> | if you jsut want to get rid of program |
| 20:57 | <tmk> | you can delete it using sql |
| 20:59 | <josephk> | whosabuysawhatsit? |
| 21:00 | <extremis> | tmk: whats teh sql command? |
| 21:00 | <extremis> | I'll run setup |
| 21:02 | <josephk> | the wait for the pvr continues....will it be in stock? will they send the right card? will joey ever know what's going on? Tune in next week, same danger time, same danger channel. |
| 21:02 | <tmk> | like 'delete from program where (field = somevalue)' |
| 21:03 | | * tmk will bbl |
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| 21:08 | <Captain_Murdoch> | ordered 3 instead. :) $39 * 3 = $117 w/ free shipping. cheaper than my pvr-250 before the rebate. |
| 21:09 | <Captain_Murdoch> | and cheaper than decent 878 chip cards as well. |
| 21:09 | <josephk> | who what where? |
| 21:10 | <Captain_Murdoch> | the as-yet-unsupported 100% avermedia m179. video is supposedly working but not audio. readup on the ivtv mailing lists. |
| 21:10 | <josephk> | ok... |
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| 21:11 | <josephk> | wow |
| 21:12 | <Toothpick> | What would you say a low end box would cost for running mythtv...well...I'd want the tv card to have tvout and use it for a real tv. |
| 21:14 | <josephk> | well pvr 350 has the best tv out |
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| 21:15 | <josephk> | it does encoding and decoding, so you wouldn't need a fast machine |
| 21:16 | <josephk> | but the driver isn't considered stable yet...and myth support is still in development |
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| 21:18 | <Toothpick> | josephk: thanks |
| 21:18 | <Toothpick> | will bookmark that and keep a watch. |
| 21:18 | <Toothpick> | Wouldn't be getting it until Decemberish. |
| 21:19 | <yeyo> | how can i clear my music database for mythmusic.. i didn't see anything in the docs |
| 21:19 | <josephk> | should be a release by that time |
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| 21:23 | <Captain_Murdoch> | I have a Celeron 466 as my main frontend. only thing slow is the menus sometime cause it's an i810 chipset which doesn't have the greatest X support. It works fine for 480x480 mpeg2 recordings from my pvr-250 though, just can't deinterlace on the celeron-466. |
| 21:28 | <kja> | yeyo: enter mysql and type 'delete * from musicmetadata;' |
| 21:31 | <kvandivo> | so i just watched Survivor and deleted it. The file went away, and the commercial skipping thread has just kept right on spinning |
| 21:32 | <kvandivo> | i'm assuming it will die eventually.. haven't noticed it persisting in the past.. (it's only been 8 minutes since I deleted the show) |
| 21:40 | <kja> | Wanted to try to run Myth on my laptop today, and fired up setup on it, typed in the correct ips, and tried to run mythfrontend, but then it tries to connect to localhost(??)...investigate...the mythfrontend code that fetches the setting uses hostname as a base, but setup uses a clear hostname as base??? |
| --- | Log | closed Thu Oct 02 21:40:38 2003 |
| --- | Log | opened Thu Oct 02 21:42:38 2003 |
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| 21:42 | <mikegrb> | thank you |
| 21:42 | <mikegrb> | er |
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| 21:43 | <kja> | there's an err either in setup or mythfrontend setup code |
| 21:43 | <kvandivo> | Captain_Murdoch: just curious.. you have any way to test your 179's in rapid fashion? says they have a 15 day return policy on those |
| 21:43 | <josephk> | cvs or release? |
| 21:44 | <kja> | I guess we should change setup so that it stores the MasterBackend* with hostname, because then you can choose different backends for different frontends |
| 21:44 | <kja> | cvs |
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| 21:44 | <kja> | Chutt, want a patch for that, or could you do it by hand? |
| 21:46 | <josephk> | I never did understand why I had to edit that file seperately from anything else...lol |
| 21:46 | <mikegrb> | :) |
| 21:47 | <mikegrb> | er |
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| 21:51 | <extremis> | hrm, I just ran setup and after defining the video source it froze at the main setup window and nothing is highlighted |
| 21:52 | <extremis> | I know it usually takes a second, but it has been like this for a while |
| 21:53 | <kja> | extremis: attach gdb to it, and check where it is |
| 21:54 | <extremis> | how do I do that? |
| 21:55 | <kja> | gdb <app> <pid> |
| 21:56 | <extremis> | what is app? teh fullpathname? the name that ps shows? |
| 21:56 | <overridex> | is it just me, or does mythtranscode seem to be really slow when you read the data from the vidout fifo.... |
| 21:56 | <overridex> | barely using any cpu and cating it to a file takes forever.... hardly any hd activity either.. |
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| 22:26 | <extremis> | Should I use diff drives for mythtv binaries and mythtv data (videos) ? |
| 22:35 | <warlord> | I dont think it matters |
| 22:39 | <extremis> | the speed improvement is neglagable? |
| 22:39 | <extremis> | so... what filesystem should I use for my video partition? |
| 22:40 | <extremis> | I need to figure out why my amd 2600+ keeps skipping while playing back video recorded from my 250 |
| 22:40 | <extremis> | maybe I'm setting the dma mode wrong |
| 22:44 | <warlord> | could be. |
| 22:44 | <warlord> | What speed disk do you have? |
| 22:44 | <warlord> | and how do you have the BIOS set? |
| 22:45 | <warlord> | I've got a 2600+ and 3 pvr-250s and I dont see any skipping. |
| 22:45 | <extremis> | I have an ultra133 |
| 22:45 | <extremis> | its a 200gig |
| 22:45 | <extremis> | this is my hdparm params: -u1 -c3 -X udma5 |
| 22:45 | <warlord> | I've got a 200g udma(100) |
| 22:45 | <warlord> | do you set hdparm -d1 ? |
| 22:46 | <extremis> | hrm, yes |
| 22:46 | <extremis> | gentoo conf: |
| 22:46 | <extremis> | disc0_args="-u1 -c3 -X udma5" |
| 22:46 | <extremis> | all_args="-d1" |
| 22:46 | <warlord> | what do you get from -i ? |
| 22:46 | <warlord> | hdparm -i /dev/hda |
| 22:47 | <extremis> | UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 |
| 22:47 | <extremis> | hrm, it supports 6 |
| 22:47 | <warlord> | that would be 133.. |
| 22:48 | <extremis> | but I wonder if the * means that is what it is currently |
| 22:48 | <warlord> | so it's probably not disk.. |
| 22:48 | <extremis> | * signifies the current active mode |
| 22:48 | <warlord> | The * means that's what it's using. |
| 22:48 | <extremis> | odd, I told it udma5 yet it used 6 |
| 22:48 | <warlord> | odd |
| 22:49 | <extremis> | ide0: Speed warnings UDMA 3/4/5 is not functional. |
| 22:49 | <warlord> | Ok, so it's not the disk.. Perhaps it's the graphics output? |
| 22:49 | <extremis> | I guess that is why |
| 22:49 | <extremis> | warlord: nvidia geforce4 440mx |
| 22:49 | <warlord> | hmm, that could do it.. |
| 22:50 | <warlord> | Some things do: I boot with "idebus=66 ide0=ata66" |
| 22:51 | <extremis> | where do I define that? |
| 22:51 | <extremis> | and why not ata133? |
| 22:51 | <warlord> | grub.com |
| 22:51 | <warlord> | er, .conf |
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| 22:51 | <extremis> | right, whats the proper syntax? |
| 22:51 | <warlord> | Just add it to the boot command line. |
| 22:52 | <warlord> | also, ata133 probably wont be accepted. |
| 22:52 | <warlord> | it's talking about bus-speed. |
| 22:52 | <extremis> | also, I think I remember seeing something about the nvidia driver and disabling framebuffer support in the kernel |
| 22:53 | <warlord> | could be.. |
| 22:53 | <warlord> | I dont think I've got it configured in mine. |
| 22:53 | <extremis> | I currently use the framebuffer because I wanted to use bootsplash |
| 22:54 | <warlord> | oh. |
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| 22:54 | <warlord> | well.... |
| 22:55 | <extremis> | I think it would be worht disabling |
| 22:55 | <extremis> | anything else I should look at? I'm using reiserfs |
| 22:55 | <extremis> | I know that Chutt doesn't like it |
| 22:55 | <extremis> | I want speed speed speed |
| 22:55 | <extremis> | :) |
| 22:57 | <warlord> | I use ext3 |
| 22:58 | <warlord> | I dont like reiserfs, either, but for unrelated reasons. |
| 22:58 | <extremis> | do you enable journaling support in ext3? |
| 22:59 | <extremis> | are there any good debates about the fastest filesystem? |
| 22:59 | <extremis> | for video? |
| 22:59 | <extremis> | since its large files |
| 22:59 | <warlord> | Yes, journaling is on. |
| 22:59 | <extremis> | mkfs.ext3 -j ? |
| 22:59 | | * extremis man's |
| 23:00 | <warlord> | ext3 IMPLIES a journal. |
| 23:00 | <extremis> | oh |
| 23:01 | <warlord> | ext2 is no journal. |
| 23:03 | <extremis> | so, I'm curious... why do you prefer ext3 over reiserfs? |
| 23:03 | <kja> | use ext2 for robustness, stability and speed |
| 23:03 | <extremis> | kja: ? |
| 23:03 | <extremis> | do yo uhave any documentation showing it outperforms the others? |
| 23:04 | <kja> | reiserfs isn't mature, to fresh |
| 23:04 | <warlord> | reiserfs breaks the inode abstraction |
| 23:04 | <warlord> | and, well, I know the maintainer of the ext[23]-tools |
| 23:04 | <kja> | i think ext2 and xfs is bout the same in performance |
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| 23:05 | <warlord> | i'll grant the unlink() is faster in reiserfs than ext3, but why do I care? |
| 23:05 | <kja> | can you play the recorded files without in mplayer or other apps fine? |
| 23:05 | <extremis> | so... why is ext2 faster than ext3, is there any proof? |
| 23:05 | <kja> | s/without/with |
| 23:05 | <uncle_jesse> | anyone know how I can map a keycode to a command? I want my remote wonder to launch mythtv when I hit it's "TV" button |
| 23:06 | <extremis> | kja: dunno |
| 23:06 | <extremis> | but I know its playback |
| 23:06 | <uncle_jesse> | can I do it with xmodmap? |
| 23:06 | <extremis> | because I can rewind and play the same spot over and it doesn't skip |
| 23:06 | <warlord> | I dont believe ext2 is any faster than ext3. it certainly recovers from a crash faster... |
| 23:06 | <Chutt> | ext2 is certainly faster than ext3 |
| 23:06 | <extremis> | its like a process loads up and sucks up resources |
| 23:06 | <extremis> | but of course there isn't |
| 23:06 | <Chutt> | it doesn't have to write extra stuff to the journal |
| 23:06 | <kja> | exactly |
| 23:07 | <warlord> | the journal is just flushing out metadata.. |
| 23:07 | <Chutt> | kja, there's only one master backend on a network by definition, btw =) |
| 23:07 | <Chutt> | kja, so, no, i wouldn't like a patch for that |
| 23:07 | <warlord> | i'm not convinced ext2 is significantly faster than 3 |
| 23:07 | <Chutt> | warlord, there's a measureable difference |
| 23:07 | <warlord> | URL |
| 23:07 | <warlord> | ? |
| 23:08 | <Chutt> | not offhand |
| 23:08 | <kja> | but then the GetSetting in mythcontext should be changed... |
| 23:08 | <extremis> | yes, I'm the troll of the evening |
| 23:08 | <Chutt> | kja, no, it works fine |
| 23:09 | <kja> | hu? |
| 23:09 | <kja> | I had to insert a setting for my laptop manually... |
| 23:09 | <Chutt> | getsetting falls back to null |
| 23:10 | <Chutt> | for hostname |
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| 23:12 | <extremis> | Chutt: on the topic of measurable differences, do you believe that there is a measurable speed difference between debian and gentoo... when propery compiling your whole system with march definitions? |
| 23:12 | <Chutt> | no, i don't |
| 23:12 | <extremis> | really, why is there a flavor built around that concept, and why did they work so hard implementing that in gcc (the gcc team that is) |
| 23:12 | <uncle_jesse> | has anyone figured out a way to map a keycode to an actual command string so you can launch mythtv with just a button on your remote from within the desktop manager? |
| 23:12 | <Chutt> | and even if there was, you just lost any speed difference you gained by compiling everything yourself. |
| 23:13 | <Chutt> | uncle_jesse, hey, i have an idea, why don't you repeat yourself until you get an answer? |
| 23:13 | <extremis> | Chutt: what do you mean you lose speed by compiling yourself? I'm talking about runtime speed, not development speed |
| 23:13 | <Chutt> | extremis, wasn't there a test recently that showed gentoo was the slowest of distributions? |
| 23:13 | <Chutt> | :p |
| 23:13 | <uncle_jesse> | Chutt: there was alot of traffic - wasn't sure if anyone saw my post |
| 23:13 | <extremis> | Chutt: really? and was this test accurate and reputable? |
| 23:13 | <warlord> | uncle_jesse: what UI? |
| 23:13 | <Chutt> | extremis, how should i know? |
| 23:13 | <uncle_jesse> | warlord: gnome |
| 23:14 | <Chutt> | uncle_jesse, this isn't a generic linux tech support channel. |
| 23:14 | <warlord> | uncle_jesse: no clue. |
| 23:14 | <extremis> | Chutt: what was the fastest of them? |
| 23:14 | <Chutt> | extremis, i don't recall |
| 23:14 | <Chutt> | i just remember laughing at the gentoo kiddies |
| 23:14 | <warlord> | If you were running KDE, I'd tell you to map 'OK' to 'Return', and then you could put a copy of your frontend onto your desktop. |
| 23:14 | <warlord> | you might be able to do something similar with gnome. |
| 23:15 | <uncle_jesse> | yeah |
| 23:15 | <extremis> | Chutt: I love debian, but one thing that has bugged me (increasingly so over time) is that thheir stable releases are increadibly behind... its almost impossible to run a 'stable' system. I don't know anyone doing that anymore, unstable contains the necessary upgrades |
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| 23:16 | <Chutt> | moegreen, greetings |
| 23:16 | <warlord> | extremis: and that's why I hate Debian and prefer Red Hat. RH sucks in other ways, but they at least have "stablereleases |
| 23:16 | <billytwowilly> | extremis: People that don't need the upgrades use stable. The nice thing about stable is that you know you can install it and go away for a couple years and it'll still be working;) |
| 23:16 | <warlord> | every 6 months or so |
| 23:16 | <moegreen> | hello |
| 23:17 | <warlord> | it's the "couple of years" that's the problem. |
| 23:17 | <Chutt> | i run stable on several production servers at work. |
| 23:17 | <Chutt> | they don't need upgrading, aside from security issues, and debian's always on top of that |
| 23:17 | <extremis> | warlord: I would agree with you there, but I just can't get used to using the microsoft of linux |
| 23:18 | <extremis> | Chutt: you run unstable on your mythtv boxen? |
| 23:18 | <Chutt> | of course |
| 23:18 | <extremis> | how often do you apt-get update apt-get upgrade? |
| 23:18 | <Chutt> | every couple weeks |
| 23:19 | <extremis> | If you were to sell a mythtv settop box, would you use debian and would it be -unstable? |
| 23:19 | <extremis> | (I'm not going to, but I am debating converting from gentoo) |
| 23:19 | <Chutt> | i wouldn't be selling a mythtv box |
| 23:19 | <Chutt> | but, yeah, i'm most comfortable with debian. |
| 23:20 | <Chutt> | only been using it for.. 8 years now, i think |
| 23:20 | <extremis> | do you use any other OSs (like openbsd?) |
| 23:20 | <extremis> | have you ever used openbsd? |
| 23:20 | <extremis> | :) |
| 23:20 | <Chutt> | nope |
| 23:21 | <billytwowilly> | does anyone archive the devel conversations that go on here? |
| 23:21 | <extremis> | do you have enough knowledge of the other flavors of linux to debate debian's superiority? |
| 23:22 | <Chutt> | billytwowilly, yes |
| 23:22 | <hEximal> | distributions are like cola |
| 23:22 | <billytwowilly> | Chutt: where? |
| 23:22 | <Chutt> | extremis, i've used pretty much every linux distribution, aside from gentoo |
| 23:22 | <extremis> | hEximal: nootice my use of the word flavor |
| 23:22 | <Chutt> | i don't have the time to waste on that |
| 23:22 | <Chutt> | this irc session's running on a redhat box :p |
| 23:22 | <hEximal> | lots of people like coke, but they'll drink pepsi |
| 23:23 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: what, you mean they all want to be coke?;) |
| 23:23 | <Chutt> | billytwowilly, i don't have the url, sorry |
| 23:23 | <billytwowilly> | Chutt: no worries, I was just curious. |
| 23:23 | <hEximal> | billy: now i'm confused. |
| 23:23 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: you said distributions are like cola. |
| 23:24 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: every cola wants to be coke;) |
| 23:24 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: but they can't, there is only one coke. |
| 23:24 | <Chutt> | where's tmk.. |
| 23:24 | <hEximal> | ok socrates |
| 23:24 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: So which distro is coke? |
| 23:24 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: hehehehe. |
| 23:25 | <hEximal> | billytwowilly: maybe they all see themselves as coke |
| 23:25 | <billytwowilly> | maybe the coke is in the eye of the beholder;) |
| 23:26 | <hEximal> | my coke might be pepsi. |
| 23:26 | <hEximal> | or r/c |
| 23:26 | <billytwowilly> | or president's choice.. |
| 23:26 | <hEximal> | heh |
| 23:26 | <hEximal> | must be a generic brand |
| 23:26 | <billytwowilly> | if you aren't from Canada, that's this cheap house brand from the real Canadian superstore;) |
| 23:27 | <extremis> | Chutt: thank you for patiently answering my somewhat silly questions |
| 23:27 | <extremis> | given my recent irritations with gentoo, I'd like to give debian another chance |
| 23:27 | <extremis> | now to find a -unstable iso |
| 23:27 | <Chutt> | stuff's compiling, i got nothing else to do :p |
| 23:27 | <Chutt> | you can't install unstable right off |
| 23:27 | <Chutt> | start with a netinst cd for stable, then just upgrade it immediately |
| 23:28 | <hEximal> | billytwowilly: maybe distributions are more like beer, lite, dark, low carb, imported... |
| 23:28 | <extremis> | Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (a.k.a. woody) was released on 19th of July, 2002 |
| 23:28 | <extremis> | wow |
| 23:28 | <extremis> | Chutt: do you use bootsplash to make your bootups pretty? |
| 23:29 | <Chutt> | i don't really reboot |
| 23:29 | <Chutt> | so i don't bother with that stuff |
| 23:29 | <billytwowilly> | hEximal: if only I could remember where I saw that article on linux and beers;) |
| 23:29 | <extremis> | I think jigdo is stupid |
| 23:30 | <billytwowilly> | jigdo's an interesting idea. |
| 23:30 | <extremis> | its painfully complicated |
| 23:30 | <extremis> | compared to apt |
| 23:30 | <hEximal> | is jigdo worth the trouble of comprehension? |
| 23:30 | <overridex> | ok... has anyone here tried using mencoder directly from the mythtranscode vidout fifo? |
| 23:31 | <overridex> | it goes insanely slow, like 2fps encoding, using barely any cpu..... if i cat some of the vidout to a file and encode that file, it uses full cpu encodes at 22fps.... |
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| 23:31 | <extremis> | Chutt: where do you get your netinst images? |
| 23:32 | <Chutt> | there's some linked to from the debian site |
| 23:32 | <Chutt> | i forget which i used |
| 23:32 | <extremis> | yeah, they are old |
| 23:32 | <extremis> | heh, I found one that uses beta 3.0 snapshots |
| 23:32 | <Chutt> | yeah, that's the one bad thing |
| 23:32 | <Chutt> | it doesn't install |
| 23:32 | <Chutt> | they've fucked up the installer |
| 23:33 | <Chutt> | it gets rather difficult to install debian on newer hardware near the end of a release cycle =) |
| 23:34 | <extremis> | so, shall I use the testing image? |
| 23:34 | <extremis> | http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/netinst/i386/ |
| 23:35 | <Chutt> | stable |
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| 23:35 | <extremis> | hah, but a broken installer |
| 23:35 | <Chutt> | no, stable works |
| 23:35 | <Chutt> | newer ones don'e |
| 23:35 | <Chutt> | don't |
| 23:35 | <Chutt> | unless they've fixed things in the past couple months, but i'd doubt that |
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| 23:47 | <Chutt> | ah hah |
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| 23:50 | <Chutt> | bah, i'm working on tmk's bug, and he's nowhere to be found. |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Oct 03 00:00:36 2003 |