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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-10-23

---Logopened Thu Oct 23 00:00:56 2003
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12:07<mrwh1t3>hey all new to this chan looking at creating a mythtv just saying hi
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13:37<Chutt>i really should disable comments on the website
13:38<warlord>I didn't even realize you could PUT comments on the website.
13:39<Chutt>there's a whole lot of crap on there
13:40<warlord>welcome to the world wide what?
13:42<Chutt>it's 'apply all the patches i've been sent' day
13:42<warlord>fun fun fun..
13:42<warlord>glad I pulled down CVS yesterday..
13:43<Chutt>naw, shouldn't break much
13:43<Chutt>except for qt 3.0 compatibility, perhaps
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14:03<thor_>Chutt, any thoughts on where metadata whould live in the mfd?
14:05<thor_>want to keep services like audio as simple as possible, but you need to able to do "play my playlist" and have the client go away
14:05<thor_>so my thinking right now is that metadata should go in the core mfd object
14:06<thor_>all plugins can get to it in memory, not via socket parsing
14:06<thor_>but I don't want to paint us into a corner
14:07<Chutt>some generic stuff in the core bits to store all that would work
14:08<thor_>and then I guess the core would be where clients have to ask for metadata
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14:09<tmk>Chutt: you around?
14:09<thor_>this will become clearer in the next few hours ... the daapserver is working, so it needs something to serve
14:09<Chutt>tmk, yup
14:09<Chutt>what's up?
14:10<tmk>noticed something wierd lately
14:10<Chutt>thor, i'm breaking qt 3.0 compat completely right now
14:10<tmk>when a recording ends
14:10<tmk>mythbackend starts eating 100% cpu
14:10<Chutt>commercial detection or transcoding
14:10<thor_>Chutt, goody
14:10<Chutt>would be my guess
14:11<tmk>ah. so it's normal then
14:11<tmk>not transcoding certainly
14:11<tmk>is there an option to nice those processes?
14:11<Chutt>they should be
14:11<tmk>it screws up playback :)
14:12<Chutt>niced, that is
14:12<tmk>perhaps it's an i/o bottleneck
14:14<Chutt>you're not on my users list, right?
14:16<Chutt>check those =)
14:18<tmk>ok. thanks
14:21<tmk>heh. i wish people would bother telling me if they have a patch like that
14:22<warlord>tmk: add a link to the mailing lists off of's home page.
14:22<tmk>yes master
14:23<warlord>or a "how to report bugs" pointer ;)
14:23<warlord>that will encourage people to help.
14:23<warlord>(or at least contact you)
14:23<Chutt>tmk, he just sent it a couple hours ago
14:23<tmk>oh ok
14:23<Chutt>and is still working on it
14:23<tmk>i'll email him then
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14:25<Chutt>tmk, hey, would it be possible to merge the decoder-alpha branch?
14:26<Chutt>bunch of people writing in with problems that are fixed there
14:41<tmk>i'm getting ready to do that
14:41<tmk>it's past due
14:41<tmk>i'm just lazy
14:43<warlord>ahh, laziness... we all know that feeling. zzzzz.. :)
14:45<Chutt>tmk, oh, apparently the GET_FB ioctl doesn't work.
14:45<tmk>which one is that
14:46<Chutt>the one that lets me know which framebuffer device to open
14:46<tmk>i'll have to check that
14:49<tmk>yeah i don't know where that code came from
14:49<tmk>must have been a brain fart (or matt ;)
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14:50<Chutt>you wrote that :p
14:51<tmk>i'll bbl
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14:53<solarce>thor_: hey, how's the daap project coming?
14:53<thor_>very well
14:53<thor_>that "ahhhh"
14:54<thor_>was Windows iTunes playing content from the new mfd for the first time
14:54<thor_>now to clean this mess up a bit
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15:01<warlord>thor_: cool.. I presume that means the audio data was on the mfd, right?
15:01<thor_>yup (sorta ... bit of a hack at the moment)
15:02<warlord>i see.
15:02<warlord>how about the other way around? audio data on iTunes that gets played on the mfd?
15:02<warlord>(but controlled from iTunes)
15:02<thor_>first part very soon
15:03<thor_>second part, I'm not sure is possible
15:03<thor_>"controlled" as in defining playlists and such yes, but not controlled as in play, stop
15:11<warlord>Here's my situation.. My wife has a Mac with multiple megabytes of audio data and playlist info.. I've got a myth box connected to the stereo. She'd like to be able to use the data on her Mac and drive the myth box and play the music out the stereo.
15:11<thor_>I hear you
15:12<thor_>but DAAP/iTunes does not (to my knowledge) allow remote control
15:12<thor_>all of her music and playlists will be available on the myth box
15:13<thor_>but you need to "push play" on something other than iTunes
15:13<warlord>right, but would it allow us to play the music out of the myth box?
15:13<warlord>AH, that's the important piece..
15:13<thor_>but you need to "push play" on the mythbox, or a custom client talking to the myth box
15:13<warlord>"mythweb" ;)
15:14<warlord>(ok, maybe not)
15:14<thor_>quite possibly
15:14<warlord>but that's ok -- i dont need to use the iTunes UI to play on the mythtv.. I'm willing to have a different interface. I just want to be able to use her audio data. Cool.
15:16<warlord>(granted, __she__ would prefer to do it all from iTunes, but...)
15:16<thor_>warlord, you have more than one Mac ?
15:17<thor_>or a Winbox with iTunes on it as well
15:17<warlord>Nope, just one Mac.
15:18<warlord>but she's spent a LOT of time getting her playlists set up.
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15:18<thor_>I just need to test with mutlitple clients to make sure the embedded http server stuff is *really* thread safe
15:19<thor_>and I'm loath to install windows (again)
15:20<thor_>yeah, maybe
15:22* warlord lives by vmware...
15:23<knight->I could test in a little bit
15:23<thor_>you have mutliple iTunes
15:23<knight->I have a titanium and a few winxp boxes
15:23<thor_>ah good
15:23<thor_>running CVS of myth ?
15:23<thor_>or recent source
15:23<knight->well, CVS as of like 2-3 weeks ago... but I'll upgrade (I want to anyways)
15:24<thor_>no hurry ... the code will be in at some point in the next 24 hours
15:24<knight->I'm still reading my mythtv-dev mailbox, so let me finish that first
15:25<thor_>if you see a -cvs commit to the mfd tree about "preliminary daap server support", check it out build it, and turn on many iTunes
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15:27<knight->rendevouz support?
15:27<thor_>already in there
15:27<thor_>the Apple code is pretty easy to deal with
15:28<thor_>('cept for their pedantic way of using barces)
15:28<knight->isnt most of it in objc?
15:28<thor_>the mDNS code is all C
15:28<thor_>with an ANSI core
15:28<thor_>and a Posix interface
15:30<knight->ahh great
15:30<knight->I've been meaning to mess around with mDNS
15:31<Chutt>thor, is the apple license GPL compatible?
15:31<thor_>I checked with FSF
15:31<thor_>(on the website)
15:31<sfr>8: comments, lots of comments in mfd.cpp. nice. ;)
15:32<thor_>the 2.x is not loved, but it is not incompatible
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15:34<thor_>sfr, that's me explaining what I whink should be happening to myself
15:37<Chutt>thor, it's in their incompatible section
15:38<thor_>let me check what the hell I was looking at
15:40<thor_>"This is a free software license" was the part I clung to
15:40<thor_>" it is ok to use and improve the software released under"
15:40<thor_>but I can do the module with some other code if you feel strongly about it
15:41<thor_>it is, quite literally, a plugin :-)
15:41<Chutt>if it's lgpl compatible
15:42<Chutt>just make the plugin interface lgpl'd
15:42<Chutt>then it's fine
15:42<knight->If I can figure out what protocol Sony uses for the RS-232C control ports on their equipment, I'll write some code for mythtv to support cd/dvd carosels and receivers, etc
15:42<thor_>ah ... ok ...
15:42<Chutt>i think
15:42<thor_>but if you think this is tainting stuff, I'll re do it ...
15:43<thor_>wait ...
15:43<Chutt>no, i just want to be in the clear wrt license stuff
15:44<knight->btw, any suggestions for software RAID 0?
15:45<thor_>all the code in the zeroconfig plugin directory says Apple Public License in it, and the license itself is in there
15:45<Chutt>is the apple/ subdir their code, and the stuff up a level yours?
15:45<thor_>that is about 80% true
15:45<thor_>tiny mods to theirs
15:46<thor_>but "my" code is a derivative of theirs
15:46<thor_>but it stops compeletely at the plugin interface
15:46<Chutt>ok, so, from my non-lawyer-ly reading
15:46<Chutt>i think it should be fine to just make the plugin interface LGPL
15:46<Chutt>which, it should be anyway
15:47<thor_>..... right .... as long as you don't care about people putting closed software in there via the interface
15:47<thor_>(might work for closed listings data, fer example)
15:48<thor_>good thing, bad thing ... I dunno ... but clearly a thing
15:49<Chutt>right, but it allows non GPL plugins
15:49<Chutt>and that's generally a good thing
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16:03<knight->thor, i see recent daap commits... is it in now?
16:03<thor_>no, not yet
16:03<thor_>(that was taking out a fake daap service entry)
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16:08<knight->hmmm, should i use LVM or MD raid?
16:10<mdz>they are not mutually exclusive
16:12<knight->I think I'll do EVMS+MD+LVM
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16:42<warlord>Chutt: do you prefer (! (foo == bar && baz == quux) || ...) or (foo != bar || baz != quux || ...) ???
16:43<Chutt>i'd probably write the second
16:44<warlord>(I think I found the problem in avformatdecoder.cpp)
16:45<warlord>I'm just rebuilding now and then I'm gonna test it..
16:45<warlord>It doesn't fix the hang, but it explains why it's switching when it shouldn't/
16:46<Chutt>small patch?
16:46<warlord>Uh, yea.
16:46<Chutt>you can just paste it in here
16:46<warlord>The code should read:
16:46<warlord> if (freq != audio_sampling_rate_2nd || channels != audio_channels_2nd ||
16:46<warlord> (freq == audio_sampling_rate && channels == audio_channels))
16:47<Chutt>the mailing list is a tad slow right now
16:47<Chutt>heh, now why didn't i see that
16:47<warlord>I'll have to continue with my other test cases, but my reliable test case is "passing"
16:47<warlord>LOL. Too close to the code?
16:48<warlord>(why didn't *I* see it, either??)
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16:48<warlord>I only found it because I added a bunch of extra printf's and noticed that successive tests were testing against different numbers but not reverting.
16:48<warlord>Audio may have changed: 48000 -> 22050, 2 -> 1
16:48<warlord>Testing Audio: 24000hz & 1
16:48<warlord>Testing Audio: 16000hz & 1
16:48<warlord>Audio has changed: 16000hz mono
16:49<warlord>This was what got my attention to the logic error. :)
16:50<Chutt>just committed that
16:51<Chutt>thanks for finding it
16:52<Chutt>i think that was the only major bug reported before the 0.12 release that didn't get fixed
16:52<warlord>Oh, no problem. It's been driving me nuts for a month!
16:53<warlord>Do you know how annoying it is to have to ssh into the box to kill the frontend so my wife can watch tv? ;)
16:54<warlord>w00t. I can't get it to hang with ANY of my test cases anymore.
16:55<warlord>The audio DID change once, but it didn't hang.
16:58<warlord>Chutt: another thing (while I have your attention)... Let me preface this by saying I have not tried to reproduce it yet..
17:00<warlord>My wife was watching LiveTV, entered the EPG, and while in the EPG the system wanted to take the tuner to record something. It popped the OSD dialog in the EPG 'clip' area, and then something happened to focus, locking up the frontend.
17:00<Chutt>that's a known bug
17:00<warlord>I didn't think to grab a bt at the time. :(
17:00<warlord>Ahh, ok.
17:00<Chutt>problem is it's waiting for a response to the dialog, but there's no way to give it one
17:01<Chutt>though, i thought i had worked around that earlier
17:01<warlord>yea, that sounds about right.
17:01<warlord>define "earlier"
17:01<Chutt>sometime between 0.11 and 0.12
17:01<warlord>more than a week ago?
17:01<Chutt>much more
17:02<warlord>Hmm, well apparantly there is still a problem (or a different one)
17:02<warlord>I'll try to reproduce.
17:02<Chutt>i wouldn't worry about it
17:03<warlord>Well, it's annoying that the frontend locked up.
17:03<Chutt>right, but unless you're intending to fix it at the same time, i don't really need a backtrace
17:03<warlord>(anything that causes my wife to call me to login to the tv to fix it is something I'll worry about)
17:03<Chutt>i know where the problem is, so a bt wouldn't really help =)
17:04<warlord>well, i have no clue where to even start looking if I can't reproduce. You may ;)
17:04<Chutt>libs/libmythtv/tv_play.cpp, AskAllowRecording()
17:07<Chutt>it's a lot of qt event loop crap
17:09<Chutt>might be just as easy as forcing an exit from the epg
17:10<warlord>I'm not convinced that's the right answer..
17:10<warlord>Then again, I think LiveTV should take precedence over recordings when there are alternate tuners that could be used.
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17:11<Utopiste>0.12 is nice, keep the good job :)
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17:49<monkeyBox_>does MythTV now require a window manager again?
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17:59<mikegrb>qt 3.0 support is gone :D
17:59<thor_>goo d ridance :-)
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18:30<mdz>is qt 3.0 support gone in 0.12, or post-0.12?
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18:39* josephk is back (gone 16:52:03)
18:42<josephk>The frontend appears to freeze, however I don't see any change in the output of gdb...its weird because the video decoding appears to stop, but I can still use the OSD for the frontend, until I hit ESC, the playback resumes for 2 seconds, and the frontend just locks up (not the machine)
18:43<thor_>sorry, when is this happening ?
18:43<josephk>after watching live tv for a period of time
18:43<josephk>it never seems to be the same
18:44<josephk>pvr350 (I'm not bitching)
18:44<thor_>ah, this on 350 TV out ?
18:44<josephk>I wonder if there is something else I could be looking for
18:44<thor_>I can honestly profess total ignorance
18:46<josephk>I'm using debug=3 on the driver, and looking for anything out of the ordinary, but I don't see it...I did notice a missed dma interrupt on the buffer drive, however I've never seen it before and this has been happening since the beginning
18:47<josephk>I'll just keep trying
18:47<josephk>there has to be something somewhere:D
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18:48<josephk>maybe I'll try debian and see if its Mandrake
18:53<josephk>I just noticed something strange...or not
18:53<josephk>go into EPG while in live tv...go to the recording menu and video decides to pause
18:54<josephk>I've heard of the problem with dialogs for this similar?
18:55<josephk>I don't really care since I can get right out of it...but odd
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20:07<D-side_>josephk: xchat eh?
20:12<warlord>is there something wrong with xchat?
20:13<D-side_>not in the slightest.
20:13<D-side_>its default quit message is "Client exiting"
20:16* josephk is away: I'm actually away...I don't believe me either
20:16* josephk is back (gone 00:00:09)
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20:17<D-side_>well then.
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20:39<D-side_>today is day 2 of the Great Gentoo Install.
20:39<D-side_>it'll be worth it.
20:40<tmbg37>yes, it will
20:40<D-side_>i'm starting to like gentoo even more now... its like LFS for people who are afraid of commitment.
20:41<tmbg37>it's not exactly like LFS
20:41<D-side_>that was an attempt at a joke, really.
20:41<tmbg37>i didn't get it
20:41<D-side_>yeah it wasnt funny.
20:42<D-side_>so hour 2 of an X compile, wondering why my xp2000 isnt as fast as my 2500+ barton. lets think..
20:43<tmbg37>a 2500+ is nothing but an overclocked 2200+
20:43<tmbg37>with a different core, though
20:45<tmbg37>that was also ajoke
20:45<D-side_>neither of us are doing well in the humor department.
20:45<D-side_>i'd be in a lot better of a mood if my f'ing IR transmitter worked. oh well, UPS to the rescue.
20:46<tmbg37>i'd build one of these mythtv boxes if I had $500
20:46<tmbg37>unfortunately, i'm a high school student
20:46<tmbg37>and a lazy one
20:46<josephk>I'm reinstalling Mandrake...I'm cooler than you
20:47<tmbg37>no you're not
20:47<merf>this is probably my broken box, but does anyone have any ideas why when i compile mythtv 0.12 it errors on globalsettings.cpp with 'virtual memory exhausted'?
20:47<tmbg37>probably because you've run out of virtual memory
20:47<merf>that was my first guess.
20:48<josephk>your box has borkitis
20:48<tmbg37>how much ram do you have and how big is your swap partiton?
20:48<D-side_>josephk: while theres nothing at all wrong with mandrake, saying that you're cooler than I because of it is silly!
20:48<merf>tmbg37: 64mb of ram :/
20:48<merf>i think swap is about 124.
20:48<tmbg37>that might be why
20:48<tmbg37>run "free"
20:48<D-side_>click, click, click, installed!
20:48<josephk>yes was one of your bad jokes
20:48<D-side_>no, i wanted the two day hassle and headache
20:48<D-side_>josephk: goddamnit
20:49<D-side_>i've had out of mem errors on rh8 and 9 when trying to transcode to svcd mpeg, but i solved that by not transcoding anymore.
20:49<josephk>sounds like you did the right thing
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20:50<D-side_>yeah i'm proud of that particular bit of problem resolution.
20:51<mechou>Manual recordings seem to periodically disappear fo "fix conflicts," and they dont seem to show up "mythbackend --printsched". Is this considered "normal" for myth?
20:52<tmbg37>so I understand that with mythtv, you can forward TV to other computers?
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20:53<warlord>yep -- provided they share a file system.
20:54<mikegrb>tv works just over network
20:54<mikegrb>mythvideo and mythmusic require nfs or some such
20:54<tmbg37>so what's with all that serving content to remote frontends stuff?
20:54<mikegrb>they don't have to share a filesystem for tv
20:55<mikegrb>if you use mythvideo or some such the videos need to be on an NFS mountpoint
20:55<warlord>oh? so my /var/mythtv/video directory doesn't need to be exported to watch a recorded TV show?
20:55<mikegrb>nah sure doesn't
20:55* warlord hasn't played with remote frontends.
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20:55<mikegrb>that's what the remote file transfer messages are I believe
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20:55* mikegrb uses it exclusively
20:56<merf>tmbg37: so should i just git me a bigger swap partition?
20:56<merf>i could compile 0.10 and 0.11 with no problems
20:56<warlord>merf: you probably want both bigger swap AND more RAM.
20:56<tmbg37>merf: or more RAM
20:56<merf>yeah, more ram would be nice
20:57<warlord>RAM is cheap. Go spend $50
20:57<warlord>it'll buy you 256MB or more
20:57<tmbg37>it's not cheap if you're a lazy high school student
20:58<D-side_>stop being lazy.
20:58<merf>tmbg37: exactly
20:58<warlord>Yea, stop being lazy
20:58<merf>i spent all my money on a ps2.
20:58<warlord>well, that was dumb!
20:58<merf>warlord: twas
20:58<warlord>i bet you can't even return it..
20:58<mikegrb>should have got an xbox to run mythtv
20:58<merf>warlord: sure i can
20:58<merf>but i don't wanna :D
20:59<merf>i'll compile it on another box or something
20:59<merf>i'll make a crappy .deb
20:59<mechou>can x box be a backend?
20:59<D-side_>with what tuner ability?
20:59<mikegrb>at least I doubt it
20:59<mikegrb>you would prob want hardware encoder, it's only 733
21:00<mikegrb>there aren't any usb hardware encoders w/ linux support
21:00<mechou>xbox doesnt have pci slot.....
21:00<mikegrb>well I guess if you turn res way down you could
21:00<mikegrb>xbox has usb
21:01<mechou>I still thing Hauppauge MVP looks nice, on paper, for a FE....
21:01<merf>maybe i'll make the xp2500+ the backend
21:01<merf>and use the crappy piii500 as a frontend
21:01<D-side_>mechou: whats the mvp?
21:02<mechou>go to hauppages site, you'll find out.....
21:02<D-side_>yes, as a quick reply would have killed you.
21:03<mechou>apparently only $100....
21:03<D-side_>bah, pdfs.
21:03<mechou>D-side_: the reply wouldn't have been quick :)
21:03<D-side_>i take it back.
21:03<D-side_>i should apologize.
21:03<josephk>I have a friend who is messing with the software
21:03<D-side_>theres no way you could have handed me all that info in a quick one liner.
21:04<josephk>you can pretty much change the interface to be whatever you want
21:04<josephk>so don't go by the crappy one you see on the sit
21:05<mechou>josephk: what are u talking about??
21:05<D-side_>if that thing is ever hacked to do our bidding, holy crap. i'll fill the house with them.
21:05<mechou>josephk: do they use http??
21:06<josephk>they use html, css, and javascript
21:06<mechou>actually, D-side_, I don't know if it will automatically skip commercials....
21:06<josephk>I don't think they are on port 80 but it seems like they have created a web server that runs for it in their software
21:07<mechou>josephk, who is this friend that's hacking it? Does he participate on this channel?
21:08<D-side_>wonder if you could export an X session over it...
21:08<mechou>I sure would like to find out if the mvp is any good....
21:09<josephk>well unless they provide the source for the windows service you might have some trouble figuring it out
21:09<mechou>josephk: have you seen the mvp "in action?"
21:09<josephk>it uses a full featured set top box chip made by IBM...nothing like the connexant
21:09<josephk> don't need it to actually see how it works
21:09<D-side_>how cheap is this again?
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21:10<mechou>josephk: is the PQ any good for SDTV??
21:10<D-side_>good god.
21:10<D-side_>i'm tempted to pick up one just for the hell of it.
21:10<josephk>hauppauge released the software for download so you can check it out if you like
21:11<mechou>nah, I'm talking theis svideo output....
21:11<mechou>sw wont help me determine PQ....
21:11<josephk>its got a 250mhz IBM processor in
21:11<D-side_>and the remote looks pretty cool.
21:11<D-side_>i'm amazed its that cheap.
21:11<josephk>the chip itself is capable of ac-3 decoding
21:12<josephk>of course the board shows no signs of spdif
21:12<tmbg37>but does it work with linux?
21:12<D-side_>it RUNS linx
21:12<D-side_>+ u
21:12<mechou>josephk: nah, you got to pay over $200 for the one w/ SPDIF
21:12<tmbg37>yes, i know
21:13<D-side_>josephk: dont suppose he's opened that thing up?
21:13<tmbg37>but it seemed to be designed to work with the PVR software that comes with other hauppauge products
21:13<D-side_>what joy i would feel if when you crack it open its got a DoC or CF card. :)
21:15<mechou>for $200 I'd go buy EPIA....
21:15<mechou>not that is ideal either....
21:16<josephk>I already told you its got an IBM set top box chip with hynix ram
21:16<josephk>nothing of any consequence on the board
21:16<josephk>see for pictars
21:16<josephk>the forums that is
21:17<mechou>sue hope hauppauge wil release specs for server sw so one can be made for linux....
21:17-!-Utopiste is now known as utopiste-aw
21:18<warlord>I live the pvr-250.. it does a good job.
21:18<cmorgan>hey warlord
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21:18<warlord>hey ... let's hear it for project crossover.
21:19<mechou>nah, who needs crossover :)
21:20<warlord>someone with too much time on their hands (or project masochism?)
21:20<mechou>I mean whos still has NTFS on their linux server?
21:20<warlord>cmorgan: he's making a really bad joke.
21:21<warlord>mechou: I made sure it was FAT32, not NTFS.
21:21<cmorgan>crossover doesn't care about filesystem ;-)
21:21<mechou>Fat32, does it support files >2GB??
21:22<mechou>what is the largest file size supported by fat32?
21:22<warlord>(at least I'm _fairly_ sure it does)
21:22<cmorgan>fat32 goes WAY beyond 2gb
21:22<cmorgan>at least hundreds of gigabytes
21:23<D-side_>cmorgan: he said "filesize", not disk/partition size
21:23<mechou>warlord, I think you should double check. I'm talking file size, not partition size.
21:23<cmorgan>D-side_: yes my bad
21:23<cmorgan>i always get a good laugh when people are recording from capture cards and hit 2gb and it just stops
21:23<mechou>If you record a movie it will be >2GB
21:24<cmorgan>so they record it again and it stops at 2gb again heh
21:24<D-side_>not necessarily.
21:24<lane>josephk: was just looking thru the mvp specs, and it sounds like it accepts MPEG streams over the lan. If anyone knows how to analyze network traffic, they might be able to make sense of what the mvp wants
21:25<mechou>lane, that's not the issue....
21:25<D-side_>it may partially related.
21:25<D-side_>+ be
21:26<lane>mechou: ok. :} just a thought
21:27<warlord>cmorgan: any more plans to help out with gnucash? ;)
21:27<mechou>If I,m not mistaken, it ought to be abe to decode "compliant" MPEG-4 stream (over the network, from anywhere)
21:27<cmorgan>warlord: i'd actually like to reword the bayes formula slightly
21:27<warlord>mechou: OBTW, zap2it should have real data again.
21:27<warlord>cmorgan: cool!
21:28<cmorgan>warlord: i read a critique of paul's formula basically saying that the number of entries should be taken into account
21:28<mechou>yeah, warlord. my schedules returned to normal yesterday....
21:28<warlord>cmorgan: ok.
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21:28<cmorgan>warlord: like you shouldn't consider 1/1 to be 100% or more than say 5/6
21:29<warlord>mechou: yea. their upstream must've had problems. Not to mention the fact that the networks have been screwing with their schedules.
21:29<cmorgan>it should be a pretty easy change i think
21:30<warlord>(should discuss this elsewhere)
21:30<cmorgan>don't think we are using up any valuable bandwidth ;-)
21:30<cmorgan>anyone know if any lirc developers lurk here?
21:32<warlord>I've never found a good way to contact lirc devs.
21:32<cmorgan>i actually wanted to fix the whole multiple device issue
21:32<cmorgan>because i'd like my hauppauge remote and homemade ir blaster working at the same time without having to do the dual build thing
21:33<cmorgan>i was thinking two different devices(in the linux major/minor sense)
21:34<davatar>Is there ac3 support for pchdtv yet?
21:34<cmorgan>or maybe a modified device interface to query and access either device behind a single /dev/lirc?
21:35<cmorgan>anyone care to share a little information about linux devices?
21:45<cmorgan>mailed one of the developers to ask them what direction they would recommend
22:06<cmorgan>so athlon xp 2500+ or athlon xp 2600+?
22:07<DogBoy>what's the price difference
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22:08<cmorgan>2600 w/333 is $92 on pricewatch, 2500 is $81
22:08<cmorgan>but the 2500 is a different design chip, lower clock speed and larger l2 cache...
22:09<warlord>i got a 2600
22:09<josephk>barton is bleh:)
22:10<cmorgan>josephk: seriously?
22:11<josephk>well only if you plan on going lower than 2800...the older CPU's are "better" in direct comparison...although I'm sure more L2 can help on some things
22:11<josephk>of course you could always overclock and make up the clock difference
22:12<josephk>I dislike that rating convention very much
22:13<josephk>I better stop before Chutt tells me I'm bitching:)
22:14<cmorgan>2800 is just too much higher than the 2700
22:15<cmorgan>i figure 2700/2600/2500 w/333, looking at the nforce2 board from asus with integrated graphics
22:15<warlord>that's why i got the 2600..
22:16<warlord>i got 2600 / nforce2 from msi w/ nvidia + tvout.
22:16<cmorgan>integrated lan?
22:16<cmorgan>the benchmarks i've seen say that the dual ddr is a big improvement with the integrated graphics
22:17<josephk>the one's on my friend's computer say the same
22:17<warlord>probably -- i only have asingle ddr chip
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22:18<warlord>i could go spendanother $99 for another stick...
22:18<cmorgan>the conclusion was basically that dual ddr wasn't a big deal without the integrated graphics
22:18<josephk>he has Dual 400 512's...gets his 3mark score up at least 3000
22:18<cmorgan>so 2600 for the higher clock speed vs. the 2500 with barton core is the conclusion? ;-)
22:18<josephk>sure thoroughbred core
22:30<cmorgan>trying to retire my 1.4 athlon to a mythbox ;-)
22:31<warlord>that will make a fine myth box.
22:31<cmorgan>its so overkill with the pvr350 ;-)
22:32<cmorgan>the few things that still annoy me are the inability to use 2.6 with the ivtv drivers(haven't tried Rob's latest 2.6 patch though)
22:32<cmorgan>and the lirc multiple device thing
22:32<cmorgan>since i'd really like to change channels via remote AND change channels on the cable box at the same time ;-)
22:32<davatar>cmorgan: don't you transcode with the 350?
22:32<warlord>Hey, I have three pvr250's in my athlon-2600 box..
22:32<cmorgan>davatar: transcode?
22:32<warlord>davatar: no, why would you?
22:33<cmorgan>davatar: the board outputs mpeg2
22:33<warlord>the 350 gives you an mpeg stream
22:33<davatar>warlord: 200 megs for 30 minutes? :)
22:34<davatar>cmorgan: I was under the impression that it supported yuv video, but maybe support isn't in yet..
22:34<cmorgan>mpeg4 is much better compression? what do you mean?
22:34<warlord>davatar: what do you mean? the pvr2/350 outputs an mpeg stream.. it's only 4GB/hr at better-than-DVD quality
22:34<davatar>cmorgan: yes.. right now I record the simpsons at ~170MB per episode.
22:34<warlord>And you can TOLERATE that low quality?
22:35<davatar>warlord: Actually it's not that bad.. with a noise filter before compression..
22:35* warlord can notice the mpeg artifacts in DVD quality video!
22:35<davatar>it's a cartoon :)
22:35<warlord>Hmm.. True..
22:36<davatar>recording every simpsons episode at 4GB/hour would fill my disk in a few days..
22:37<warlord>Well, you could always tune it down.. 4GB/hr is the highest quality you can get -- better than DVD.
22:37<davatar>anyways, at 3000mbit's it's higher quality than mpeg2, no blocking or visible artifacts.. That's only 1GB/hour
22:37<davatar>warlord: nope, high-quality dvd's are 8GB, and they start from a noise-less source :)
22:38<warlord>davatar: not 8G/hr..
22:38<davatar>no.. total..
22:38<warlord>Right, for over 2 hours of stuff!
22:38<warlord>DVD quality is about a 3GB/hr mpeg stream
22:39<davatar>from a clean source with a $100,000 mpeg2 encoder :)
22:40<warlord>math is math...
22:40<warlord>you can only fit so many bits in 3GB/hr..
22:40<cmorgan>could have better adcs or something maybe
22:40<cmorgan>but probably only marginally better quality
22:41<davatar>There are many variables to tune. You can do a lot of corner-cutting.
22:42<davatar>seeing macroblocks on dvd's puts you in the "marginal" range btw ;)
22:42<Captain_Murdoch_>anybody ever use the rpms from
22:44<warlord>I'm just trained to look for them -- my Graduate Advisor and some of my collegues helped develop mpeg2
22:45<FreddieD>I invented mp3
22:48<cmorgan>warlord: you have the 350?
22:50<warlord>Nope, but I have 3 250s
22:50<cmorgan>i didn't have the best of luck with the decoder ivtv ;-) heh
22:50<cmorgan>i think they fixed it though, turned out to be a C99 issue with variables used before declared or soemthing i think
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 24 00:00:55 2003