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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2004-04-29

---Logopened Thu Apr 29 10:51:52 2004
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12:29matafa (:#mythtv) hello
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13:15thor (:#mythtv) excellent, libopendaap released for new DAAP-Client validation in iTunes 4.5
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14:05steelep (:#mythtv) lol
14:05steelep (:#mythtv) crazney has been at it again, and within 24 hours of downloading iTunes 4.5, has broken the new scheme, and added more features to this library along the way.
14:18poptix (:#mythtv) "my OS is so advanced i have to hack it to change the themes"
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15:09thor (:#mythtv) it's a stupid mechanism
15:10thor (:#mythtv) in the clear passing of an MD5 checksum
15:11thor (:#mythtv) why they changed (and therefore totally broke music sharing with iTunes < 4.5 ) is completely beyond me
15:14stoffel (:#mythtv) on a news site it says that older versions of itunes allowed songs played via rendevouz to be saved locally and that 4.5 fixes this.
15:15thor (:#mythtv) nope
15:15thor (:#mythtv) well, don't know about iTunes itelf
15:15thor (:#mythtv) but DAAP streams the content
15:15thor (:#mythtv) you can play it or save it
15:15thor (:#mythtv) it's all bits
15:16Chutt (:#mythtv) bits is bits
15:16thor (:#mythtv) yup
15:17bitbyte (:#mythtv) erm
15:17thor (:#mythtv) 'cept for qubits
15:19thor (:#mythtv) I mean honestly ... they have an HTTP-like wire protocol that moves bits around ... are they really expecting people not to point clients at it?
15:34donour (:#mythtv) it's not just http like
15:35donour (:#mythtv) the actual request to copy the file IS mp3
15:35thor (:#mythtv) yes, but you need a session ID on the GET line which you get from logging in in a DAAP like way
15:35donour (:#mythtv) erm...http rath3er
15:35donour (:#mythtv) no, you don't
15:35thor (:#mythtv) ok, whatever
15:36donour (:#mythtv) I have a pcap program that sits on en0
15:36donour (:#mythtv) whenever it sees and outbound daap request, it sends it twice
15:36thor (:#mythtv) right
15:36donour (:#mythtv) the second request drops the file into /tmp/itunes
15:36thor (:#mythtv) so it's replicating the valid session id
15:36donour (:#mythtv) exactly
15:36thor (:#mythtv) right
15:37donour (:#mythtv) but it's done at the ip packet layer
15:37thor (:#mythtv) it's not HTTP in the sense that there are other headers, and subsets of error values
15:37thor (:#mythtv) but it's very close to HTTP
15:37donour (:#mythtv) it says it's http
15:37donour (:#mythtv) in the packet
15:37thor (:#mythtv) yup
15:37donour (:#mythtv) wanna see an ethereal dump?
15:38thor (:#mythtv) nope
15:38donour (:#mythtv) or better yet, my python program that does it all?
15:38thor (:#mythtv) I've already written a DAAP parser
15:38thor (:#mythtv) it's in the mfd
15:38Chutt (:#mythtv) but thor, you can't possibly be right!
15:38thor (:#mythtv) heh
15:39--- User: *** Ksoze is now known as KeyserSoze
15:39thor (:#mythtv) friggin gstreamer sucks
15:40donour (:#mythtv) thor, wait. is opendaap your creation?
15:40thor (:#mythtv) nope, but I did contrib the first patch :-)
15:40donour (:#mythtv) ok
15:41donour (:#mythtv) i wish i'd known about it a a couple of months ago when i decided that i wanted to copy itunes streams
15:42thor (:#mythtv) there are about 4-5 simultaneous daap projects
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15:42thor (:#mythtv) but libopendaap is the only one that has reverse engineered the Client-DAAP-Validation header algorithm
15:43donour (:#mythtv) cool
15:43donour (:#mythtv) gotta run
15:43thor (:#mythtv) yup
15:45thor (:#mythtv) and I think I'm about to contribute another patch
15:45thor (:#mythtv) 'cause this ain't quite working as advertised
15:45thor (:#mythtv) (sigh)
15:45thor (:#mythtv) be nice to send a bill to Apple for my time
15:51hachi (:#mythtv) not 'THOR SMASH!' ?
15:55thor (:#mythtv) heh
15:56thor (:#mythtv) Chutt, once I get this sorted, I've got a couple new Myth Widgets on the way ... a new mult-text scrolling thing and a two dimensional tree browser
15:57Chutt (:#mythtv) tree browser?
15:57thor (:#mythtv) yeah
15:57thor (:#mythtv) the idea is ...
15:57Chutt (:#mythtv) using the listview?
15:57thor (:#mythtv) no
15:58--- ---> riksta [] has joined #mythtv
15:58thor (:#mythtv) use the pop-up menu to go down the music tree as far as you like (say to Genre-Artist), hit enter
15:58riksta (:#mythtv) hey, can anyone tell me if the CVS versionis compiling ok today
15:58riksta (:#mythtv) please :)
15:58thor (:#mythtv) then you get a browser with artist name at the top scrolling left right on left right arrow
15:58thor (:#mythtv) and the albums tracks scrolling up down on up down arrow
15:58Chutt (:#mythtv) ah
15:59thor (:#mythtv) hit menu, go to another part of tree, browser changes to there
15:59thor (:#mythtv) hard to explain
16:00riksta (:#mythtv) ../../libs/libavcodec/ undefined reference to `please_use_av_log'
16:00riksta (:#mythtv) ../../libs/libmythtv/ undefined reference to `VideoOutputIvtv::Play(float, bool)'
16:00riksta (:#mythtv) ../../libs/libmythtv/ undefined reference to `VideoOutputIvtv::Pause()'
16:00riksta (:#mythtv) ../../libs/libmythtv/ undefined reference to `VideoOutputIvtv::VideoOutputIvtv[in-charge]()'
16:00riksta (:#mythtv) do you know what this eror could be due to ?
16:00hachi (:#mythtv) riksta: I'd recommend not pasting in channel
16:01riksta (:#mythtv) umm, apologies, but its only a couple of lines
16:01Chutt (:#mythtv) you changed your settings in without doing a distclean
16:01thor (:#mythtv) easier to use ... if you think it sucks, I'll just rip it out
16:02Chutt (:#mythtv) thor, yeah, i'll check it out
16:02thor (:#mythtv) k
16:02Chutt (:#mythtv) i'm going to be out of town all next week, though
16:02thor (:#mythtv) that's a good thing
16:02thor (:#mythtv) :-)
16:02bitbyte (:#mythtv) how goes the job hunt chutt?
16:02riksta (:#mythtv) Chutt, was that directed at me?
16:02thor (:#mythtv) yes, it was
16:03thor (:#mythtv) make distclean
16:03riksta (:#mythtv) ok ill run a distclean, but im sure that portage deletes the whole directory before it even starts to compile the cvs
16:03riksta (:#mythtv) so i cant see how that would affect it because it starts the build from scratch
16:03thor (:#mythtv) portage != CVS ?
16:04riksta (:#mythtv) yeah i have a cvs ebuild
16:04riksta (:#mythtv) it logs into cvs and grabs the files
16:04Chutt (:#mythtv) why the fuck are you using such a thing?
16:04* thor (:#mythtv) crawls under the table again
16:04Chutt (:#mythtv) heh
16:04riksta (:#mythtv) because on gentoo, i dont how it determines all the configure options and options the ebuild is a bit cryptic
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16:04Chutt (:#mythtv) do you want to pay for my bandwidth bill?
16:05riksta (:#mythtv) chutt, no its ok it caches the cvs's files in a directory
16:05riksta (:#mythtv) i promise
16:05Chutt (:#mythtv) you just said it deletes the whole directory
16:05Chutt (:#mythtv) <riksta> ok ill run a distclean, but im sure that portage deletes the whole directory before it even starts to compile the cvs
16:05riksta (:#mythtv) yeah the compile work directory, not the cvs cache
16:05Chutt (:#mythtv) it's either one way or the other
16:05riksta (:#mythtv) i promise it caches the cvs elsewhere
16:05riksta (:#mythtv) :P
16:05Chutt (:#mythtv) right, anyway
16:05hachi (:#mythtv) actually, it could be both, debian does the same routine
16:06riksta (:#mythtv) yeah so anyway ive run a distclean and im recompiling so hopefully ill be ok, thank you Chutt thor
16:07* thor (:#mythtv) can't hear you from under the table
16:07riksta (:#mythtv) Chutt just to clear up on that, the cvs gets downloaded to portage cache dir, then every time you run the cvs ebuild again it does cvs update in the cache dir, and then copies everything over to a work directory
16:07riksta (:#mythtv) hehe thor :P
16:08hachi (:#mythtv) 14:18 <@hachi> impressive
16:08thor (:#mythtv) could someone pass me a keyboard please
16:08Chutt (:#mythtv) heh
16:08riksta (:#mythtv) :)
16:08hachi (:#mythtv) uh, sorry about dumping my buffer there
16:09Chutt (:#mythtv) thor, anyway, go and do whatever you want wrt ui widgets =)
16:09Chutt (:#mythtv) i'm sure it'll be fine
16:09thor (:#mythtv) k
16:10riksta (:#mythtv) Chutt are you the main developer of mythtv? Im just wondering about something..... i've seen a site where a company is making PVR boxes to sell...and they sell with mythtv i think .... i know its open source....but is that a condition?
16:11Chutt (:#mythtv) is what a condition?
16:11riksta (:#mythtv) well i mean, are they allowed to sell it commertically and make money from it
16:11riksta (:#mythtv) commercially*
16:12Chutt (:#mythtv) it's distributed under the GPL
16:12Chutt (:#mythtv) people can do anything they want with it as long as they follow that
16:12hachi (:#mythtv) yay
16:12riksta (:#mythtv) so does the GPL allow that
16:12* thor (:#mythtv) thinks hachi-san has been into the Saki again
16:14hachi (:#mythtv) despite the fact that it's pronounced 'sakee' here in 'merica, it's spelled 'sake'
16:14thor (:#mythtv) he
16:15hachi (:#mythtv) in any case, the GPL doesn't allow selling of mythtv, but if they sell it with hardware, you are paying for the hardware, right?
16:15riksta (:#mythtv) yeah i suppose, but are paying for the setup of the mythtv also, but i suppose they can argue they are just adding extra profit to the hardware
16:15thor (:#mythtv) GPL does not prevent you from selling anything, including Myth
16:16thor (:#mythtv) or Linux, for that matter
16:16riksta (:#mythtv) really....thats interesting
16:16hachi (:#mythtv) ahh, good point, forgot that
16:16riksta (:#mythtv) Chutt i still get -0.15 -lmythavformat-0.15 -lmythavcodec-0.15 -lmyth-0.15 -lfreetype -lmp3lame -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXinerama -lXv -lX11 -lXext -lXxf86vm -lqt-mt -lXext -lX11 -lm -lpthread ../../libs/libavcodec/ undefined reference to `please_use_av_log'
16:17Chutt (:#mythtv) don't know what to tell you
16:17Chutt (:#mythtv) i don't support gentoo
16:17riksta (:#mythtv) well its no different
16:17hachi (:#mythtv) what's your disposition towards debian?
16:17Chutt (:#mythtv) sure it is
16:18riksta (:#mythtv) all it does it gets the files and runs the compile
16:18Chutt (:#mythtv) you said yourself that you have no idea what it's doing in the config step
16:18thor (:#mythtv) it is self evidently different, as it will not compile
16:18riksta (:#mythtv) hmm true, ok Chutt thanks im going to just try and figure out a by hand build
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16:22riksta (:#mythtv) hmm the only thing in the ebuild i dont understand is how it works out the cflags
16:22riksta (:#mythtv) local cpu="`get-flag march || get-flag mcpu`" no idea what this is
16:23hachi (:#mythtv) looks to me like a gentoo specific thing, tried the manual compile yet?
16:23riksta (:#mythtv) haci, im doing it now but i want to find out the clflags to put into
16:24Chutt (:#mythtv) don't change the cflags
16:24Chutt (:#mythtv) unless you're lowering them
16:24hachi (:#mythtv) maybe you should follow the instructions that come with mythtv instead of trying to follow what portage is doing
16:24hachi (:#mythtv) also, not playing the X-Y problem game would help
16:25riksta (:#mythtv) X-Y problem game?
16:26riksta (:#mythtv) Chutt ok
16:26hachi (:#mythtv) A person says they want X when they really want Y, but they think that X will help get them there
16:27hachi (:#mythtv) your first question was "does cvs mythtv compile", which isn't the whole problem
16:27hachi (:#mythtv) cvs mythtv will not compile on gentoo using portage
16:27hachi (:#mythtv) that's the real problem
16:28riksta (:#mythtv) i can change my march in tho right
16:29hachi (:#mythtv) you have to if you're running on a C3 or other strange things, see the documentation
16:29riksta (:#mythtv) hachi, ok i apologise, i understand your point about XY
16:30riksta (:#mythtv) ok thanks for all your input, im trying a hand build now, much appreciated
16:35riksta (:#mythtv) does the database structure change for the cvs build
16:35thor (:#mythtv) eh?
16:35thor (:#mythtv) ah
16:35thor (:#mythtv) versus 0.14 ?
16:35riksta (:#mythtv) yes
16:35thor (:#mythtv) yup
16:36thor (:#mythtv) updates are automatic
16:36riksta (:#mythtv) oh wonderful :)
16:36riksta (:#mythtv) clever people :P
16:36thor (:#mythtv) clever Chutt
16:36riksta (:#mythtv) i should dump my old db before i install then
16:36thor (:#mythtv) nope
16:37riksta (:#mythtv) yeah....dump as in ... back it up incase i want to go back to 0.14
16:37thor (:#mythtv) ah
16:37thor (:#mythtv) sure
16:37riksta (:#mythtv) mysqldump i meant :)
16:37thor (:#mythtv) you can do that
16:37riksta (:#mythtv) yeah i have just in case
16:37riksta (:#mythtv) im sure i wont want to go back :)
16:38hachi (:#mythtv) I wonder what I'm running at home
16:38thor (:#mythtv) ah
16:38* thor (:#mythtv) slaps himself
16:39riksta (:#mythtv) i tihnk the cvs build is now working correctly, as it seems to have been compiling for longer than last time
16:40hachi (:#mythtv) ahaha, people were calling you regarding job schemes?
16:40Chutt (:#mythtv) every fucking day
16:41Chutt (:#mythtv) and that's not an exaggeration
16:41riksta (:#mythtv) well... i suppose you shouldcount yorself lucky
16:41hachi (:#mythtv) man alive, talk about a strange perception of 'privacy'
16:41riksta (:#mythtv) hey Chutt you should set up like an amazon wish list so people can buy you presents
16:42stoffel (:#mythtv) can i delete an entry manually from the transcoding table? It never starts due to '... aborted because of cutlist update'
16:42Chutt (:#mythtv) naw
16:44hachi (:#mythtv) regarding stoffel's question, did I miss something or is there no gooey interface to the transcode queue et al?
16:45riksta (:#mythtv) will the old mythmusic and mythdvd work with the cvs version or must i upgrade those also
16:45thor (:#mythtv) the latter
16:45riksta (:#mythtv) thanks
16:45thor (:#mythtv) yup
16:47o_cee (:#mythtv) thor: thanks for the files, haven't hat time to look at them tho, been uhm fixing taxes and stuff like that today.. but, apparently it says copyrighted, Confidential and some nasty stuff like that
16:47thor (:#mythtv) public web site
16:49o_cee (:#mythtv) yeah, but the format
16:49o_cee (:#mythtv) question is if it'd be okay to use their format
16:51riksta (:#mythtv) yay it compiled :)
16:52thor (:#mythtv) it's the info _they_ give out on the data direct site, and they _want_ people to use data direct
16:52thor (:#mythtv) plus, you don't even live in the US
16:52thor (:#mythtv) :-)
16:53hachi (:#mythtv) you could also /ask/ them
16:54riksta (:#mythtv) birllian, it works a treat
16:54thor (:#mythtv) this is not an issue, they have freely available Java and Perl clients as example code
16:54thor (:#mythtv) they want people to develop against it
16:55thor (:#mythtv) there is no mystery here
16:58hachi (:#mythtv) does nobody know about transcoding/gui stuff, I asked on #mythtv-users a couple days ago and the only answer I got was how to start a transcode from the player
16:58o_cee (:#mythtv) yeah but what about duplicating their structure?
16:58thor (:#mythtv) don't be such a pussy :-)
16:59stoffel (:#mythtv) hachi: there is no transcode gui ;)
17:00o_cee (:#mythtv) heh
17:01geckofiend (:#mythtv) stoffel: mythcommflag --force --file /path/to/file/thats/failing
17:04riksta (:#mythtv) it seems a bit strange there is no option to delete a channel from within mythsetup, i know its easy enough to do thru mysql but even so :)
17:04stoffel (:#mythtv) geckofiend: thanks
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17:27riksta (:#mythtv) say i have 4 frontends in my house can i use multicast to broadcast the stream to all the frontends simultaniously
17:29Chutt (:#mythtv) no, that would be silly
17:29Chutt (:#mythtv) each would be locked in to watching exactly the same thing
17:30kvandivo (:#mythtv) how yesterday...
17:30riksta (:#mythtv) oh, yeah thats a good point
---Logclosed Thu Apr 29 17:30:44 2004
---Logopened Thu Apr 29 17:31:31 2004
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17:33steelep there would be reasons for doing that chutt
17:33steelep I was actually considering the same thing to cut down on network traffic when two frontends are watching the same channel
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17:37hachi where's ipv6 support too huh? I want to have more than 1.6 billion frontend machines and ipv4 won't do this for me
17:38o_cee go write a patch
17:39steelep 4 frontends on a 54g wireless stretches it too thin to be workable without a way to reduce traffic
17:39steelep don't be so harsh
17:39o_cee argh, i really meant that with a ;) after it ;) hehe
17:40steelep I was only saying that, its really not silly
17:40steelep it's fairly reasonable to ask that in fict
17:40o_cee now i'm completely lost, ah well
17:41kvandivo the most obvious solution is to just run coax, or svideo, or any of the other myriad ways to move video around..
17:41steelep the multicast question earlier
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17:51riksta on that msn site
17:52riksta i just read this quote "Still, he said, you've got to tune DVR systems so they write and send out data efficiently. Otherwise, you can't handle even three streams concurrently. For example, it can be wiser to snag data in larger chunks than is usual for hard drives, so the drive actuator arm jumps around less, Sidhu said. " thats a pretty good point, does mythtv do this kind of thing, does it help to use a certain filesystem for your store??
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17:53Chutt steelep, yeah, as kvandivo said -- i'd say if you just wanted to duplicate stuff exactly, use existing video distribution hardware
17:55hachi on the up side of the hardware, the a-v sync across output devices will be the same then
17:55hachi ever tried to sync up two mp3s between two computers so you can hear it in two rooms?
17:55o_cee H/K multiroom :P
17:55Chutt it's not trivial =)
17:55o_cee brb
17:56hachi it's always off by just enough to make your HEAD A SPLODE
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18:03o_cee what did i miss?
18:03o_cee Chutt: what do you say about that? would it be worth doing something similar to DD? still have to see what format we'd get the stuff in in the first place
18:04Chutt i dunno
18:04Chutt it'd seem worthwhile, if the data was available in a similar format
18:04o_cee yeah, no idea what the source looks like yet.
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18:23riksta /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.3/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lkhtml i get this when compiling mythbrowser cvs
18:24stoffel some missing kde libs?
18:24riksta but i dunno where to look
18:24o_cee README is probably a good start
18:25riksta yes but i dont know what the kde development package is
18:29geckofiend if you don't know that then maybe you should consider using something like Jarrods guide...
18:35riksta hmm ok then on a different note, i thought that with a DVB card, i could record a channel and watch one at the same time, but i just set BBC TWO to record, which its doing and wheni go to live tv it says all available outputs are in use
18:38steelep the point being... I don't want to do it all the time, just when there is a party or something...
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18:38steelep if I wanted to do it all the time of course I would rewire my house with video distribution stuff
18:39thor RF modulate video out
18:39steelep ffs
18:39steelep do you watch vcds too?
18:39thor ffs ?
18:39steelep running component video around the house is not that simple
18:40o_cee hi steelep
18:40thor well, you can do it wirelessly
18:40steelep I hate looking at crappy video
18:40steelep hi o_cee
18:40thor or just videlan it
18:40o_cee thor: hi
18:40thor videolan it
18:40steelep that's what we were talking about
18:40thor hey, o_cee
18:40steelep chutt said it was silly
18:41thor I think he was referring to trying to get myth itself to mutlicast
18:41o_cee thor: any news on libopenpopopopo yet?
18:41steelep videolan is exactly the direction I have been going on my setup
18:41thor o_cee, it's working
18:41thor just getting the kinks out
18:42o_cee thor: nice, no big change then?
18:42steelep oic, I thought he meant in general
18:42riksta what is libopenpopopopo when its at home!
18:42thor few little changes, enough to be annoying
18:42o_cee thor: heh, and it broke compat with old itunes as well? stopid
18:42thor very
18:42thor for no reason
18:43o_cee heh
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18:48eZkL is it possible to turn of everything about recording/wathing tv in the mainmenu of mythtv?
18:50o_cee look at the .xml files
18:54eZkL i havn't installed it yet, in fact i run windows on that machine right now.. so im trying to find out if it is worth installign linux and mythtv on that box ;)
18:55o_cee installing mythtv so you can disable recording/watching tv sounds logical to me.
18:57eZkL well, i dont want more entries on the menu than nessessary.. so if i can disable those entries from xml-files or configfiles it's superb
18:57eZkL but i guess you can..
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19:43o_cee anyone heard from chris p. lately?
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20:22riksta well mythbackend died
20:22riksta and now somethings listening on the ports and i cant restart it, but netstat -alp doesnt show and process id
20:23riksta and fuser 6543/tcp shows nothing either
20:25hachi zombies?
20:26riksta how can i kill whatevers hogging the port
20:26riksta Tasks: 86 total, 1 running, 85 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
20:26hachi does lsof show anything?
20:26riksta lsof -i shows nothing
20:27hachi does it help for me to say that you sould just reboot and stop taking time on this problem?
20:27riksta tcp 40 0 localhostd:6543 localhostd:34898 CLOSE_WAIT -
20:27riksta what is this?!?
20:27riksta why should i reboot, the point is i shouldnt have to
20:28hachi yes, but you take more time trying to figure it out than it would to reboot :)
20:28hachi I have no idea what localhostd is, I don't run it
20:28hachi also, it's not listening
20:28riksta tcp 0 0 *:6543 *:* LISTEN -
20:28riksta tcp 0 0 *:6544 *:* LISTEN -
20:28hachi ah, there
20:29riksta yeh but no pids
20:29hachi tried adding a -p to the command line of whatever you're running?
20:29riksta i did
20:29riksta netstat -alp
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20:32davatar is there a backlog for patches right now? I'm just wondering if my thumbnail generation bugfix and html status patch got ignored or rejected..
20:33hachi it was eaten, hungry channel
20:35davatar umm.. yeah..
20:37Chutt i'm just too lazy to apply patches
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20:55thor heh, put your feet up
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22:18* dopester hands chutt a beer
22:18pigeon is there a plan to make PiP available for watching recordings?
22:20Chutt there's no real technical reason it couldn't be
22:20Chutt just would need a ui and stuff
22:21pigeon right...
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22:36hachi I want a ponie
22:37cmorgan everything AND a pony?
22:38hachi I guess, maybe
22:38thor and aalib output
22:39cmorgan hey why not
22:39cmorgan anything else you want? i mean while we are at it...
22:39hachi perl bindings
22:39hachi er wait... I was going to read the source and see if I could do that myself, nevermind
22:43pigeon hachi: libcaca is better :P
22:45hachi I'll read up on it
22:46hachi er, I didn't suggest aalib
22:46hachi that was thor
22:47hachi does mythtv link against caca yet?
22:49hachi I actually meant to say 'mplayer' even, but I see now that it's not
22:51pigeon hmm mplayer? it supports caca now.
22:58John-Kimble anyone here got myth working on a matrox g550 ?
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23:22hachi what does mythtv do on a multi-homed machine, especially with regards to determining its hostname to key off of, etc. ?
23:55John-Kimble anyone here got myth working on a matrox g550 ?
23:58hachi tried the mailing list?
23:59John-Kimble many times
23:59John-Kimble i've been trying to get this like going for a month now
23:59John-Kimble I've talked to Kristoff which is the only apparenty Directfb dev for mythtv
---Logclosed Fri Apr 30 00:00:01 2004