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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2004-06-03

---Logopened Thu Jun 03 00:00:43 2004
---Daychanged Thu Jun 03 2004
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00:34thor2 bah
00:34dopester davatar: QAM HDTV is what cable companies are using?
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00:50davatar dopester: In N.A., yes.
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00:50dopester who makes it
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00:51davatar divco
00:52davatar $199.. it's a steal compared to the pchdtv.. I can barely get one terrestrial broadcast with an indoor antenna. Just need drivers is all.
00:52dopester so it does terrestrial as well?
00:53dopester 4th Generation VSB demodualator from LG :) i guess i should read
00:53davatar No, I'm saying terrestrial stinks if you don't want to get a huge roof-antenna.. I'm getting like 15 HD channels, now, and I think a few dozen digital music stations of cable.
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00:53davatar yeah, cable, broadcast, 8VSB, 64QAM and 256QAM.
00:54dopester my dad works for atv station and he was tellin me the most important thing for hd reception is fec algorythms
00:54dopester im certain the pchdtv does none of that with how rotten a signal i get with it even though my analog is clean as a whistle
00:56dopester they tested some old (2-3 year old) hdtv receivers and they would loose reception about 40-50% faster than the newer receivers just cause the newer ones are doing more fec.. so makes ya wonder.. im sure I got the rf here with my yagii..
00:56davatar hmm.. this card tunes into terrestrial at around what it reports as 70% signal.. I don't remember how many dB that is right now.
00:56dopester s/n is what you really care about
00:56davatar All my cable channels come in at 100%.
00:56dopester imagine that :)
00:56dopester so there are linux drivers for this beast, or i guess thats what yer working on?
00:57davatar well.. I've had crappy cable reception for a long time.
00:57dopester remember analog tv is modulated the same as am radio.. hehe
00:57davatar Starting this week.. just arrived today... the cx88 drivers recognize it already, I can capture white noise of the analog inputs :)
00:57dopester so it doesnt take much to make it look like crap
00:59davatar the v4l team has done all the hard work I think already.. just need support for the tuner and streaming data.
00:59dopester still got a long way to coming up with a set of drivers that are like the linux dvb stuff
00:59dopester the pchdtv guys dont seem to really be on the ball with their card it seems like a total kludge job the drivers..
00:59davatar well.. people are starting to work on the dvb-t version of this card.. cx88 chipset too.. should have a lot of common.
01:00dopester yeah i bet it does
01:00dopester the si data tables for atsc looks real similar to dvb as well
01:00Chutt dvb seems horribly crappy
01:00davatar yeah.. I always hated that about pchdtv.. main reason I never bought it, aside from no QAM.
01:00dopester you and your anti-dvb there chutt :)
01:00Chutt compare the amount of code required in mythtv for dvb vs ivtv
01:00davatar at least this card works in one OS out of the box.
01:00dopester compare the power that dvb has that myth is completely wasting right now
01:00Chutt what power?
01:00dopester the drivers are complex for a reason :)
01:01Chutt decoding?
01:01Chutt multiplex stuff?
01:01dopester grab multiple shows at once auto-setup myth
01:01Chutt _if_ the data's there
01:01dopester pull guide data
01:01Chutt tv_grab_dvb, works fine apparently
01:01davatar multiple shows?
01:01dopester everything but guide has to be there for dvb specs
01:01Chutt you can grab all programs broadcast on a channel with the pchdtv cards
01:01dopester i think most of the complaining about dvb stuff is people not reading the specs for the si tables more than anything
01:03davatar *shrug* not like we can get that in the US anyway.
01:03dopester we got dvb-s here
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01:03thor2 I bought a pchdtv and stuck it in a box just so I knew I'd have an HDTV piece of hardware that had no concept of a "do not copy" flag
01:04dopester if you want crazy foreign programming you can get it with dvbs here... heheh then again how many korean variety shows can one watch..
01:04* thor2 goes back to coding
01:04Chutt heh
01:04dopester yeah thats the only reason i got mine but its been nothing more than a disappointment and a wasted pci slot mostly
01:04davatar thor2: I bet all the magic's in the drivers anyway..
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01:05thor2 who knows what kind of Palladium-like nonsense the powers that be might dictate
01:06thor2 plus, it's only a few hundred bucks to a hardware company that is clearly Linux-centric
01:06dopester i thought after the dvd "scandal" that they were saying the no copy flag required the hardware to encrypt the show, which would make the equipment go up in price.. all for what i have no idea..
01:06Chutt so the opengl sync stuff works pretty well
01:06Chutt just as good as polling the driver device
01:07thor2 Chutt, if you get a chance, have a go at CVS mfd
01:07Chutt sure
01:08thor2 I'm just about done editing playlists over the wire
01:08davatar thor2: yeah that's what I thought at first, but it seems more like - here's the hardware for the cost of hardware and development, now you make the drivers..
01:08thor2 just need to add cd ripping plugin, and it will be something useful
01:09thor2 davatar, who knows ... put HDTV is now being broadcast, and I know I have a piece of hardware that can receive it
01:09thor2 err, but
01:13dopester heh the but..
01:14thor2 bah, politics sucks
01:15dopester nothing like good 'ol fashion greed
01:16thor2 it's the same all over
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03:29Chutt i should just fork the ivtv driver
03:29thor2 heh
03:29Chutt the people 'working' on it nowadays are incompetent
03:29thor2 what's tmk up to ?
03:30Chutt letting his project go to shit
03:30thor2 hmmmm
03:30Chutt otherwise, i dunno =)
03:30thor2 Hauppauge should really be paying someone to do this
03:33thor2 Heh
03:34thor2 Anyone want to go and help run a federal election campaign in Montreal ?
03:34Chutt someone from connexant or whatnot emailed everyone that's listed as a developer for ivtv
03:34Chutt and offered docs
03:34thor2 really ?
03:34Chutt yup
03:34Chutt looks like no one took them up on it
03:34thor2 issues with you doing that given your current emplyment status?
03:35thor2 err, employment
03:35thor2 ie. IP wandering from A to B
03:35thor2 ?
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03:35Chutt yup
03:35Chutt and i don't have time, either
03:35thor2 crap
03:35thor2 yup
03:36Chutt i really want to know why this hans guy is changing ioctl numbers
03:36Chutt and saying it's for v4l1 compatability
03:36thor2 heh
03:36Chutt the ioctls are ivtv specific
03:36Chutt and the driver is v4l2 only
03:37thor2 even in my complete ignorance of anything to do with v4l, I know you need to copy the header over
03:37thor2 ie, the v4l2 header
03:38thor2 bah
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03:39Chutt yup
03:40thor2 any problems with you forking ivtv vis-a-vis present employment ?
03:40Chutt eh, i don't have time to do that, either
03:41thor2 well, not in the next 24 hours, but de-facto employment issues ?
03:41Chutt i don't think so
03:42thor2 well, at least there's a least bad alternative
03:43thor2 at some point the myth codebase and/or exposed interfaces will present enough of a ripe opportunity that at least a little money will appear
03:44thor2 0.15 just refuses to crash
03:44Chutt heh
03:44thor2 on a chip
03:44Chutt tell that to the people on the lists :p
03:44thor2 signal/noise
03:44Chutt i want to know where this guy's phantom 'search for music' is coming from
03:45thor2 heh
03:45thor2 I think he's running, like 0.12 binaries or something
03:45Chutt naw, stuff looks like 0.15 in the bt
03:45Chutt and, it's true that it'll crash
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03:45Chutt search for music has to be on the main page, not settings
03:45thor2 exactly
03:46thor2 maybe he just mis-typed what he was doing
03:46thor2 and it's the samba thing
03:46Chutt no, he said that it worked from the main page
03:46thor2 dunno
03:46Chutt and it dies from the settings page
03:46Chutt ah well
03:46thor2 heh, well, it's all chaning anyway
03:46Chutt sleep time
03:46thor2 yup
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08:32tehh` i need some help debuging mythtv
08:32tehh` i've recompiled it with debug support
08:32tehh` and run debug mythfrontend
08:33tehh` i mean gdb mythfrontend
08:33tehh` at the gdb prompt > "run" mythtv starts but i get no main menu, just the background, is that the expected behaviour?
08:34Snow-Man Sounds to me like you need to read the topic.
08:35tehh` the mythtv docs sounded to me that any gdb related stuff should go to the dev list/chann ?
08:36Snow-Man Uhm, perhaps if you actually figure something out and get a backtrace.
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08:37tehh` how do i get a fuckin backtrace when gdb mythfrontend doesn't start fully the frontend
08:37tehh` whatever..
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08:38Snow-Man i s
08:38Snow-Man Provides a backtrace.
08:38Snow-Man If you're at a prompt then gdb probably intercepted a signal.
08:39Snow-Man Which means you need to 'continue'.
08:40tehh` 0x413132e1 in sigpending () from /lib/
08:45tehh` Program received signal SIG33, Real-time event 33
08:45tehh` and that before
08:46Snow-Man Those signals are normal.
08:46Snow-Man Tell gdb to let them through by default, or just continue through them.
08:47tehh` how do i tell gdb to let them trough because i get mythfrontend in fullscreen and can't press "c"
08:48Snow-Man Uhm, alt-tab?
08:48tehh` no alt-tab in blackbox
08:48Snow-Man Sounds like a pretty shitty window manager then.
08:49tehh` it is, but i get no focus problems with it ;-)
08:49Snow-Man Use another comptuer and ssh in to run gdb in.
08:49Snow-Man Or have two video cards and go dual-head.
08:49tehh` i'll try sshing
08:50Snow-Man Don't forget to fix the DISPLAY and whatnot.
08:50Snow-Man Might be easier to start up a screen session on the box locally and then attach to it over ssh.
08:50tehh` where do i change mythtv's resolution to something smaller
08:51tehh` will be much easier i guess
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08:51Snow-Man You mean make it not full-screen?
08:51Snow-Man Hell if I know.
08:51tehh` ;-)
08:51tehh` brb i'll try and report
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09:10tehh` back:)
09:11tehh` so here's the situation, i get segfault everytime i enter mythgallery and press 'p' i starts showing pics and when i press ESCAPE i get segfault every time
09:11tehh` gdb says:
09:11tehh` Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
09:11tehh` 0x434e4143 in ?? ()
09:11tehh` (gdb) c
09:11tehh` Continuing.
09:11tehh` Program terminated with signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
09:11tehh` The program no longer exists.
09:11Snow-Man err
09:11tehh` that's the exact moment
09:11Snow-Man Don't continue after a segfault.
09:11Snow-Man Do an 'i s' there.
09:11tehh` ok, sec ;-)
09:11Snow-Man Go back and i s on the *first* segfault
09:11Snow-Man Anything after that is suspect.
09:11Snow-Man What version is this?
09:12tehh` 15.1
09:12tehh` 0.15.1 and gallery is 0.15
09:12tehh` brb
09:12Snow-Man ok
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09:20tehh` i got it! ;-)
09:21tehh` who should i give it now ;-)
09:24Snow-Man You could mail it to the -dev list.
09:24Snow-Man Paste the first few lines in here tho.
09:24Snow-Man Let's make sure it's useful before you send it to the list.
09:26tehh` sec
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09:27tehh` Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
09:27tehh` 0x417a5b34 in GLSingleView::cleanUp () from /usr/lib/mythtv/plugins/
09:27tehh` (gdb) i s
09:27tehh` #0 0x417a5b34 in GLSingleView::cleanUp () from /usr/lib/mythtv/plugins/
09:27tehh` #1 0x417a4774 in GLSDialog::closeEvent () from /usr/lib/mythtv/plugins/
09:27tehh` #2 0x40cdf2b2 in QWidget::event () from /usr/lib/qt/lib/
09:27tehh` #3 0x40c4ea4f in QApplication::internalNotify () from /usr/lib/qt/lib/
09:27tehh` #4 0x40c4e05b in QApplication::notify () from /usr/lib/qt/lib/
09:27tehh` #5 0x40cdeb55 in QWidget::close () from /usr/lib/qt/lib/
09:27tehh` #6 0x4089827c in QWidget::close () from /usr/lib/
09:27tehh` enough ?
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09:28Snow-Man hmmmmm.
09:29Snow-Man It doesn't look like it's got debugging symbols.
09:29Snow-Man Which makes it next to useless.
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09:30tehh` i found something else, it happens only when i press the escape button on the remote control, if i press it on the keyboard i get no segfault
09:31Snow-Man When you start gdb does it bitch a bunch about not having debugging symbols?
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09:31tehh` yes
09:31Snow-Man Sounds like maybe the remote control is sending something different than what they keyboard is sending.
09:31Snow-Man tehh`: For everything? libmyth, mythfrontend, etc?
09:31tehh` but mythtv and mythgallery are compiled with debug
09:31Snow-Man Or just, like, libqt?
09:32Snow-Man tehh`: Try and get libmyth to be compiled with debugging symbols too...
09:33tehh` ok
09:33tehh` bbl:)
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09:48rkulagow_ this is pretty fucking annoying: what date is this?
09:48rkulagow_ 2004-03-06 11:30
09:48rkulagow_ hint, it looks like ISO8601, but it's not.
09:49rkulagow_ stupid mandrake bugzilla.
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09:52kvandivo it could have been 04-03-06 11:30 :)
09:52Snow-Man That's *not* ISO? It's fucking stupid then. :)
09:53rkulagow_ nope, that's a bugzilla entry from yesterday, jun 3 2004.
09:54rkulagow_ (or today, even)
09:54rkulagow_ but still completely fucked up.
09:54rkulagow_ i think the mandrake people are actively trying to get me to switch distros.
09:54kvandivo that by itself could be a compelling reason.
09:54kvandivo next, they'll redefine 'ls' to 'rm' and 'rm' to 'ls'
09:55rkulagow_ and from the smack down that isaac gave to buggy/broken gdb/gcc in redhat i might even have to use debian
09:55Snow-Man Oh, fucking cry me a river, bitch. :P
09:55rkulagow_ debian is scary!
09:55Snow-Man pfffft.
09:56rkulagow_ i don't even know how to pronounce it!
09:56Snow-Man Don't try to kiss up now.
09:56Snow-Man :)
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11:00louissypher I signed up for an account with datadirect, but when I try to download the program data I get "401 Unauthorized". Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
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11:13rkulagow_ chutt: docs sync please?
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11:24Chutt few minutes
11:24rkulagow_ thanks.
11:25rkulagow_ so i'm reading a review on sagetv 2.0. it's a java app.
11:25Chutt always has been
11:25rkulagow_ but this is the first time i've actually read up on it, so it was news to me.
11:25Chutt heh
11:25kvandivo wonder how tricky it would be to do a myth frontend in java
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11:26Chutt not very
11:26kvandivo mac os x, windows, solaris, sgi, hpux, linux.. all in one swoop..
11:26Chutt protocol is extremely simplistic
11:35rkulagow_ hrmm. "the networks know all the tricks, so they make auto commercial detection useless". (sagetv review forum)
11:46Chutt excuses excuses
11:46o_cee Chutt: haven't had time to continue on the mockup.. did you look at it?
11:46o_cee that was like 45 minutes work
11:50Chutt looked ok
11:52o_cee i did add one more thing (something recording) that looks pretty nice.. lemme put it up.. feels like i'd want to put the desc at the bottom as it is today though.. gimme 5 minutes
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11:58davatar Chutt: happen to know who it was from conexant that emailed the ivtv devs?
12:00rkulagow_ tell me it was something like "great work, here's the full docs and contacts in our engineering group" and not "cease and desist"
12:00Chutt Vitaly Luban
12:00Chutt may 19th
12:01o_cee (just re-arranged it a little, this looks better)
12:01GreyFoxx Chutt: Hopefully it was a positive contact? Maybe with technical information ?
12:01o_cee shouldn't even chris kennedy be able to write the driver if he had docs?
12:01davatar thanks.
12:02Chutt no, i don't think chris kennedy could write anything
12:02Chutt 1000 monkeys type thing
12:02Chutt he might _eventually_ get something that works
12:02o_cee yeah exactly, that proces he _could_ write it ;)
12:03o_cee if you put 1000 monkeys in a room, one of them will write a perfect driver for the pvr-350 :)
12:03davatar ugh.. ivtv search broken..
12:04o_cee Chutt: see more what i mean now? pretty much just switch the uitype and reuse the one we already got, with some adjustements
12:04GreyFoxx I had talked to a couple of guys I know who are senior engineers at connexant about getting them to give us technical info to be used in the ivtv project about two months ago. They passed it on to the department that has to ok that sort of thing... hopefully they are going to be willing to provide info/answer questions
12:05o_cee still needs someone who's capable of writing the driver
12:05GreyFoxx Has Kevin Thayer totally stepped back? All I ever see on thje list is Chris's 20 emails a day
12:06Chutt greyfoxx, this guy emailed everyone who was listed as a developer on the project at sourceforge, i think
12:06Chutt offered docs and stuff
12:06o_cee who's that besides tmk?
12:06GreyFoxx Sweet! I was hoping Gordon would come through. He seemed really up on the idea
12:06Chutt i dunno who all got the email
12:06GreyFoxx But he needed to get permission which he said would take a while to talk people into agreeing too
12:06Chutt i don't really have anything to do with the driver, so..
12:07o_cee tmk told you?
12:07Chutt no, i'm a listed dev on it :p
12:07o_cee ah :P
12:07Chutt o_cee, the text on your mockup's too small
12:07o_cee let's just hope that kevin will find some time for it
12:07o_cee yeah i was wondering about that, have you got any recommended minumumsize?
12:07o_cee for readability on tv's
12:08Chutt i dunno
12:08Chutt bigger :p
12:09o_cee yeah i thought about it :) but i'll get to that later, want to get the layout there first, and the basic look
12:09GreyFoxx [04:34am]<Chutt> and offered docs
12:09GreyFoxx [04:34am]<Chutt> looks like no one took them up on it
12:09GreyFoxx You were kidding right? Noone actually accepted it ?
12:09o_cee when highlighting the show in recording, the border could still be red
12:09o_cee GreyFoxx: who would do it?
12:10o_cee chris k has proved he can't do it
12:10o_cee tmk is busy with his life
12:10GreyFoxx o_cee: That's irrelevant. It would be pretty lame to not accept the technical information, regardless of who was writing the code
12:11GreyFoxx Get proper technical docs, possibly acontact to answer direct questions instead of totally fumbling around in the dark and trying to reverse engineer everything
12:11Chutt i didn't see any follow up
12:11davatar unless there were conditions attached.
12:11Chutt yeah, the code had to be GPLd
12:11o_cee it is already right?
12:11Chutt no NDA
12:11Chutt and they didn't want to deal with user support
12:11o_cee fair enough
12:11Chutt and couldn't disclose everything, but..
12:12davatar the gatos team signed NDA's and is producing GPL'd drivers.. :p too bad they are useless.
12:12GreyFoxx Which is what I asked Gordon to get us. EVerything that could be freely passed out, and I reminded them that NO code was being asked for, just technical docs that could be shared/public and used for writing the drivers
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12:13o_cee Chutt: couldn't you just accept the docs and pass it along to the list or something? haven't seen kevin in a while so maybe he haven't seen it at all
12:13GreyFoxx I even asked Kevin what he specifially wantted and that's what I asked for heh
12:14Chutt it was more of a 'ask us questions, we'll try to answer them'
12:15GreyFoxx Well, that's something at least even if it's not true docs/ ergister lists or memory-maps :)
12:15o_cee ah, okay.. hmm, maybe jens axboe would be up for it?
12:16o_cee got no idea if the other listed devs are active at all (maybe you're the only one who read the mail)
12:16Chutt i doubt he has time
12:17o_cee i can understand that no-one wants to work on a driver when they have to reverse everything, but with a good technical source it might be alot more intresting
12:17GreyFoxx Kevin posts and email maybe once a week, but that;s about it. It's mostly Chris doing things these days. I thought Kev was just working on stuff in the background while Chris was doing the OSD stuff
12:17o_cee kevin haven't done any dev at all lately, busy with moving and stuff
12:18o_cee chris has no idea what he's doing aparently
12:18o_cee he's been working on it for like 6 months now
12:19GreyFoxx It's incredible the amount of changes/versions he's pumping out trying millions of different approaches to things. Which is why I've been happily sticking to 0.19 for my pvr250's and have held off getting a 350 until it calms down
12:19o_cee release early, release often, but that's just ridicoulus
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12:21o_cee Chutt: but what do you say, should i continue the work on the mockup? i mean, you're not 100% against it?
12:22kvandivo i suspect if he were _100%_ against it, his first comment wouldn't have been that the size of the fonts was too small
12:22o_cee true, but i just wanted to make sure :)
12:22o_cee what did you think?
12:23Chutt i'm not sure how it'd work, though
12:23Chutt why's 24 have '20 episodes in this group'
12:23Chutt and that 70s show have a subtitle?
12:24o_cee because this would be a "group" mode where if you go into 24 you'd get all episodes.. and there's only one episode of 70s show
12:24o_cee pretty much like it is today with the left side
12:24Chutt how's it get the group description?
12:25Chutt and image? :p
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12:25o_cee well. magical script that fetchs from :)
12:26o_cee there's no such thing in the datadirect stuff? would be pretty nice..
12:28Chutt ah, no, but maybe zap2it would consider it
12:29o_cee yeah, shouldn't be _that_ hard i guess.. image is another story though, dunno about that.. could be manual, if you got something you want to save it wouldn't be that hard putting an image there manually
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12:36rkulagow_ i asked this yesterday here, but got no responses. what exactly is the problem that some people are having with data direct that they end up using two zipcodes or something to get their lineups?
12:36* o_cee haven't got the slightest clue..
12:37anduin you asked it in a more confusing way yesterday
12:37rkulagow_ sorry
12:37anduin apparently some people need the same lineup and it isn't just a digital vs. analog difference
12:38anduin like premium channels
12:40rkulagow_ i guess i'm not following. let me check the archive and see if there's a better explanation of what issue they're having. maybe i can ask a better question then.
12:41Chutt i think it's something close to they only have one cable box, so are using that for one tuner but not for other tuners
12:41anduin imagine you had premium channels, you only have one cable box which can decode them, but you have two capture cards. You'd need two lineups.
12:41Chutt so they need two lineups, one with premium channels, one without
12:43o_cee can't they just manually delete them afterwards?
12:43Chutt no
12:44Chutt they need two separate lineups, since there's 2 sets of channels available
12:44o_cee okay
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13:03rkulagow_ ok, i've read a thread, and i think i understand now. thinking aloud, wouldn't an alternate solution be to beable to make a copy of the lineup internally to mythfilldatabase rather than asking DD to allow users to have multiple copies of their lineup in their DD account?
13:06Chutt i dunno
13:07Chutt it'd certainly be easier if DD didn't disallow it
13:07o_cee it's limited to like 5 lineups anyway right?
13:39Chutt i really don't see the point of breaking binary compatability when a 10 line function can keep it intact
13:40Chutt does anyone else?
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13:45o_cee talking about?
13:45Chutt ivtv
13:46o_cee ah.
13:46o_cee nah sounds silly, hehe
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14:34Chutt geckofiend, how goes the recordings screen?
14:35GeckoFiend Chutt I got sidetracked with life crap... I'm working on tieing the new list items to the existing storage items now..
14:36Chutt heh
14:36Chutt cool
14:47Chutt blah
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15:44o_cee lala
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16:35Chutt does anyone see a need for that patch that lets you take stuff out of the aspect ratio options?
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16:44ChaosExiguum | eh, its bordering on too many options I think, either way
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16:55o_cee Chutt: i can see the need for it, not using any of that myself but i can imagine it beeing tiresome stepping through alot of options you never use (like on my tv, hehe)
16:56Chutt you can just use the menu, though
16:56o_cee yepp true
16:56o_cee speaking of the menu, adding the sleep thingie there would make sense as well
16:57o_cee time to sleep actually.. night
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17:15Gumby` who owns /usr/share/mythtv/mysql.txt on yor box
17:16Gumby` (assuming you are using .15)
17:16Gumby` oops
17:16Gumby` wrong channel
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17:39Chutt heh
17:45davatar Chutt: is now a good time for my multithreaded avcodec patch?
17:46davatar ffmpeg already accepted the patch to pthread.c.
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17:47Chutt sure
17:47davatar thanks.
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18:30gfiend ok time to purge my inboxes. I've got sooome way old crap marked as new.
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18:41mdz I didn't realize how much mythweather is written like a C program
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19:24tedshotdogs seems like the user channel doesnt know this question, does .14 modules work with .15?
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19:47tedshotdogs User Notice at /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mythweb/includes/mythbackend.php, line 119:
19:47tedshotdogs Incompatible protocol version (mythweb=1, backend=8)
19:47tedshotdogs i guess not
19:48tedshotdogs man just a quick yes or no from this channel would have saved me a bunch of work
19:48cmorgan who cares?
19:48cmorgan why not just keep everyting in sync?
19:48cmorgan why bust your own balls with things that can possibly be incompatible? ;-)
19:48tedshotdogs because i want to install mythweb but its not in portage yet
19:49cmorgan its just a symlink
19:49tedshotdogs what is a symlink?
19:49cmorgan i mean, to install it you just symlink from your apache directory to your mythweb directory, bam you are done
19:49tedshotdogs umm, true
19:49cmorgan so you can get cvs mythweb and be up and running in no time
19:49tedshotdogs cool
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19:55gerhard hi all, I made a simple OSD, please check it out and comment on it
19:59lmatter gerhard, looks nice. I wonder how it looks on EPIA though (grey scale only)
19:59gerhard good question can you test that?
20:01lmatter yes
20:01lmatter (but not until I get home).
20:02gerhard let me know how it looks, no probl to adjust it
20:04lmatter ok, will do.
20:04gerhard in the osd.xml file there is a section called "news_scroller" does anyone know what it looks like and how to use it?
20:05Ashlar gerhard: yah.. check out mythtvosd
20:06Ashlar mythtv-0.15.1/programs/mythtvosd .. check the README
20:06gerhard will do
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20:09gerhard is this includet in mythtv-0.15 or only in 0.15.1?
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20:11Chutt it's included in 0.14
20:12Chutt mdz, anything you want to do to improve it is welcome =)
20:12Chutt mdz, that was all moegreen, and he was still figuring stuff out back then
20:15Chutt gerhard, and, that looks pretty nice
20:16gerhard thanks, I thought to keep it simple an tidy and all in one place, dont like having to search thescreen for info
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20:43gfiend speaking of themes...
20:44Chutt yea yea
20:44Chutt you're bugging me, michael sherman (i think it is) is bugging me about his
20:44Chutt =)
20:45tedshotdogs heh its true Chutt does have bad people skills, I guess thats why he is such a good coder
20:45gfiend heh we need more folks making themes. every time someone talks about one I get the urge to tweak mine. Gerhard jusr got me to fix the stupid position inditcaotr in my osd
20:46gfiend Chutt's peopel skills are fine, he just has a low tolerance ofr cluelessnes
20:46* gfiend can't spell
20:46gerhard gfiend: sorry about that
20:46tedshotdogs heh gfiend, most people are clueless
20:46gfiend gerhard nah, everytime I looked at it (especially the editor) I though "I shold go change that" and never did
20:47gfiend night all I'm heading to bed. 3:00 is a horrible hour to wake up.
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21:06Chutt heh
21:08Chutt trying not to be too insulting to people on the ivtv list is hard :(
21:12cmorgan heh
21:12cmorgan compared to mythtv-users?
21:13Chutt can i say: 'Well, I certainly think it's great that you're trying.' to chris kennedy?
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21:13flawlessk hello
21:13flawlessk no one is here heh
21:14cmorgan Chutt: heh
21:15cmorgan he's made some improvements
21:15flawlessk cmorgan: so if i use mythtv as my front end. on the backend do i even need a tvout card? or can i just have the pvr-250 and a regular video card
21:15Chutt flawlessk, see the topic
21:15flawlessk right
21:15flawlessk i went there
21:15flawlessk no one is in there
21:15cmorgan heh
21:15flawlessk the channel doesn't seem to exist, as i got ops when i joined
21:15Chutt doesn't matter
21:16Chutt err, you typed it in wrong, then
21:16flawlessk maybe
21:16Chutt no maybe about it.
21:16cmorgan there is a craplaod of people in mythtv-users
21:16flawlessk indeed
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21:17flawlessk hrmm
21:24Sir-Al 2004-06-03 18:12:22 Upgrading to schema version 1038, DB Error (Performing database upgrade):
21:24Sir-Al Query was: ALTER TABLE videosource ADD lineupid VARCHAR(64) NULL; Driver error was [2/1060]: QMYSQL3: Unable to execute query
21:25Sir-Al backend version 0.15.20040525-1
21:26Chutt you munged up your paste.
21:27Sir-Al compresed it to 2 lines
21:28Sir-Al no idea how to fix it, it says Duplicate column name 'lineupid'
21:32cmorgan you've already got the column then
21:33Sir-Al it seems mythfilldatabase added an extra column, i don't know which one to keep
21:33Chutt mythfilldatabase didn't add anything
21:34mdz Chutt: what do you think is the best way to organize the platform-specific CD-ROM stuff to merge the freebsd patches?
21:34Chutt subclass
21:34mdz separate files? or #ifdef?
21:35Chutt doesn't have to be in a separate file or anything, but a subclass, definitely
21:35Chutt i don't really care either way
21:35GreyFoxx Chutt: Looks like you were the only one to know about the Connexant email ?:) hehe
21:35Chutt thanks for taking care of those patches, btw
21:35Chutt greyfoxx, i can't control if kevin didn't send things along
21:36Chutt hrm
21:36Chutt you know
21:36Chutt if i took over the driver, it wouldn't be a fork
21:36Chutt it'd be less of a fork than chris kennedy's stuff, since i actually have cvs commit access =)
21:36GreyFoxx ehhehe
21:36Chutt mdz, hey, some of those stack issues
21:37Chutt probably be a better idea to move the buffers into the class
21:37Chutt and not new/delete em for things that are called often
21:37GreyFoxx I have basically no problems with 0.19 which is why I've never bothered with any of the hundreds of patches Chris has done
21:39Chutt same here
21:40GreyFoxx Of course I'm installing another 250 in there tonight so with my luck that might start causing some weird problems hehe
21:49Chutt mdz, wake up
21:51Sir-Al how do i delete the last lineupid column?
21:51mdz Chutt: here
21:52Chutt 'please use tabs rather than spaces'
21:52mdz er
21:52mdz hehe
21:52Chutt i just sent a 'other way 'round' email
21:52mdz me too
21:52Chutt what do you think of moving those extra new/deletes into member buffers in the class?
21:53mdz Chutt: I thought about it, but was too lazy to look and see if it needed to be thread-safe or not
21:53mdz if it's safe, sure, makes sense
21:53Chutt ah, true
21:53Chutt i'll check, then
21:53Chutt also, wanted to ask you
21:53mdz the comms stuff didn't look performance-critical at all
21:53mdz but maybe for the audio buffer
21:54Chutt if i were to set up a bug/issue tracker
21:54Chutt would you use it?
21:54mdz depends on what software you use :-)
21:54Chutt that's the next question
21:54mdz not really, I'd probably use it regardless
21:55Chutt any preferences?
21:55mdz the next question is harder
21:55mdz I hate them ALL
21:55Chutt david mentioned roundup
21:55mdz roundup has a lot going for it, but I haven't actually tried it yet
21:55Chutt i've used bugzilla before
21:55mdz roundup is extremely simple to set up and admin
21:55mdz and is NOT written in perl
21:55Chutt request tracker seems to be well liked on freshmeat
21:55mdz doesn't require a mysql db, etc.
21:55mdz request tracker is awful for software bug tracking
21:55Chutt ah, ok
21:56Chutt wasn't sure =)
21:56mdz I would recommend giving roundup a try
21:56mdz it comes with a demo that you can just run from the command line and talk to it via http
21:56mdz zero config
21:56Chutt allright
21:56mdz to see if you like it or not
21:56Chutt well, it's not _just_ me that has to like it =)
21:56mdz if I can handle debbugs I can handle anything
21:57Chutt i just have less time on my hands
21:57Chutt and my current scraps-of-paper method is starting to get a bit, ah, non-working
21:59Chutt i'll check out roundup more, then
21:59mdz I would very much like to see how roundup works out for mythtv; I'm not aware of anyone really using it
21:59mdz but I would use bugzilla if it's not suitable
22:00Chutt roundup's not using it themselves
22:00Chutt which is my biggest concern
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22:15mdz why is qmake so useless?
22:15mdz thousands of lines of mkspec crap, and it doesn't give you a straightforward way to conditionalize things on the name of the platform
22:16mdz you shouldn't have to do CONFIG += win32
22:16mdz it _knows_ you're on win32
22:20Chutt i thought it did
22:20mdz if you can tell me how to do it, I'd be grateful
22:20mdz because I've looked
22:20mdz that guy's macos patches did contains( TARGET_OS, Linux )
22:20mdz but as far as I can tell, he made that up
22:21mdz because it doesn't work and there is no apparent code in support of it
22:21Chutt Adding platform specific source files
22:21Chutt section
22:21Chutt win32 {
22:21Chutt SOURCES += hellowin.cpp
22:21Chutt }
22:21Chutt unix {
22:21Chutt SOURCES += hellounix.cpp
22:21Chutt }
22:21mdz it doesn't define a 'linux' though
22:21mdz or a 'freebsd'
22:21mdz and if that really works, why is there a CONFIG += win32 in
22:22Chutt dunno, then
22:22Chutt because i was lazy and didn't fix the win32 guy's patch
22:24mdz yeah, apparently there is a global unix/win32/macx state
22:24mdz but no actual useful platform data
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22:24Chutt did you see:
22:24Chutt ?
22:28mdz nope
22:31mdz I just added some uname crap to
22:31Chutt that stuff looks like it may be useable
22:32mdz ok, that's all of the freebsd changes
22:32mdz except for that thing that adds roundf()
22:32mdz that goes in their C library in my opinion
22:34Chutt depends on how long it'll take
22:34Chutt wouldn't be a problem adding it temporarily to myth
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22:47Chutt 'I don't really like the fact that you have apparently no consideration for the people that are actually using the driver for something other than just testing your endless series of patches.'
22:47Chutt too much?
22:48cmorgan heh
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22:48cmorgan has he been documenting the problems he runs into?
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22:49cmorgan the behavior of the hardware seems quite odd at times and it would be nice to ahve some kind of record
22:49Matthew_I can I use mythtv with a direct tv box?
22:49Chutt if you can figure things out from his emails
22:49Chutt matthew_i, read the topic, please.
22:49Matthew_I thanks
22:50cmorgan i'm just wondering why things have gone on for so long
22:50Chutt cmorgan, i certainly can't figure out what the hell he's talking about half the time
22:50Chutt and i'm moderately familiar with how the driver works
22:50cmorgan its been a couple of months now and there seems to be no definitive progress atm
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22:51cmorgan too bad tmk and jens haven't been hacking on it more
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22:51cmorgan i think together the three of them could make some serious progress
22:51Chutt jens was making major progress, until he got caught up in other things
22:51Chutt hrm
22:51Chutt i'll leave out 'endless' in there
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22:54Captain_Murdo| If I add a new backend command I should change the protocol version right?
22:55Chutt hrm
22:55Chutt tricky =)
22:56Chutt i dunno
22:56Chutt frontends would continue to work, i imagine?
22:56Chutt might as well bump it up, just remember to hit up mythweb as well
22:57Captain_Murdo| yeah, this is just to add a command to query the number of free recorders so the frontend can know whether to display the PIP items on the OSD menu or not.
22:57Captain_Murdo| already changed mythweb so I could commit both changes at one time.
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22:58Chutt great
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23:04mdz Captain_Murdoch: the version handling ought to be improved to handle that case
23:04mdz the server should accept a client connection from a lower version if it is backward-compatible
23:05Chutt yeah, but that's fairly low priority
23:05mdz and the client, if it asks for a version higher than what the server supports and gets rejected, should reconnect with a lower version and disable the stuff it doesn't support
23:05mdz but that's probably too much work
23:06mdz it's a bit of a pain not to be able to test for regressions without starting up a whole separate backend
23:06Captain_Murdo| yeah, would be nice. I used my dev frontend to hit my production backend by mistake (no biggie) and it printed out the message about unkknown command on the backend.
23:06mdz for those of us who don't have a spare :-P
23:07Sir-Al now that we use datadirect, how can i save channel listings to a floppy and import them on a box without internet access?
23:07Captain_Murdo| if the frontend could tell it was an unsupported command then the function in remoteutil could return something sensible for the frontend to use. I'll take a quick look and maybe not change the proto version.
23:08Chutt sir-al, you enhance mythfilldatabase to allow --file to work for dd
23:09Captain_Murdo| the backend just does nothing right now if it's unsupported right? it falls through all those "else if" statements and just prints "unknown command" and doesn't return anything to the frontend. what if it did a SendResponse with the stringlist having 1 entry of "UNKNOWN_COMMAND" or something like that. the functions in remoteutil could check for that and act accordingly as new functions are added.
23:10Sir-Al Chutt: that's the easy part, how do you export the data you retrieve?
23:10Chutt you just use any of the example clients that datadirect provides to grab the data
23:10Chutt captain_murdoch, might work
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23:10Chutt but it's easy to just bump up the version #
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23:11Captain_Murdo| yeah, but like mdz said, then it's a pain because I can't hit my production backend with my dev frontend. and some things shouldn't require people to upgrade mythweb everytime.
23:11Chutt mdz, what the hell's 'runit'
23:11mdz Chutt: crap
23:11Chutt and why does roundup require that to daemonize itself
23:12mdz runit is like daemontools but not djb-infected
23:12_infrared do u guys see any benefits of 2.6 over 2.4? (specifically for htpc systems)
23:12mdz I've never used it
23:12mdz _infrared: /topic
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23:13mdz Captain_Murdoch: it's no big deal really, I don't actually test my changes anyway
23:13_infrared mdz: oh ok.. i wasnt asking from support point of view more discussion.. but k
23:14Captain_Murdo| too late, I'm halfway there, just need to recompile after changing mythcontext.h back and then test. :)
23:16mdz Captain_Murdoch: but that's the longest part of the development cycle
23:16Captain_Murdo| definitely with modifying that file.
23:16Chutt yup
23:16mdz unless you use ccache
23:16Captain_Murdo| I was about to make some comment about watching am movie or building a house or something while waiting.
23:17Captain_Murdo| another reason not to change the version number willy-nilly. :) cause I'm impatient and don't want to wait for the recompile.
23:17mdz ccache saves me a ton of time
23:17Captain_Murdo| I should look at that. take advantage of my wife's mostly-unused Linux box.
23:19Captain_Murdo| actually that's distcc I'm thinking of it appears by reading the ccache website.
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23:29mdz Captain_Murdoch: yeah, ccache is much simpler
23:29Captain_Murdo| downloaded and installed. :) will test once this compile is finished.
23:29mdz Captain_Murdoch: it runs the source through the preprocessor and checksums it, compares the checksum and the compiler flags, and if they match, uses the cached output
23:30mdz helps a lot for the mythcontext.h case, where normally it doesn't even affect the preprocessed source for most files
23:30Captain_Murdo| yeah, especially for a version number change.
23:31Captain_Murdo| did you just set CC="ccache gcc" and rerun qmake or how did you get your makefiles to use ccache?
23:34Chutt you can edit the qmake config in mkspecs pretty easily
23:34Chutt that's what i've done
23:34mdz Captain_Murdoch: PATH=/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH
23:34mdz is the simplest and most effective way
23:34Chutt mdz, what if you want to use both? :p
23:34mdz Chutt: both what?
23:34Chutt distcc + ccache
23:35mdz I don't use distcc, dunno
23:35--- <<-- _infrared [] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:35Chutt i've got my mini-itx to compile on this machine as well using distcc
23:35mdz but if it works like ccache then you could add both to PATH, first ccache then distcc
23:36mdz well, maybe not. I suppose it could loop
23:36Chutt i'd just edit the qmake config
23:36mdz does distcc require that you have the same headers everywhere? or does it preprocess locally?
23:37Chutt preprocesses locally
23:37mdz if qmake doesn't let you specify the name of the compiler without editing the spec file, then it's even more crap than I thought
23:38Chutt mdz, it does, but that way my changes don't make it into cvs accidently
23:38mdz make CC="foo"
23:38mdz seems to work fine
23:38mdz and doesn't even modify any files
23:38Chutt heh
23:38Chutt even for c++ stuff?
23:39mdz no, looks like you need to use CXX=foo for that
23:40mdz export CC="ccache distcc gcc" CXX="ccache distcc g++" or whatever
23:40Chutt yup
23:40Chutt where does debian stick the ccache cache dir?
23:41Chutt hrm, ~/.ccache
23:41Chutt i really need to clean this machine up
23:43Sir-Al new in mythtv 0.15 -- MythThemedDialog.o: something is requesting a screen update of zero size. A widget probably has not done a calculateScreeArea(). Will redraw the whole screen (inefficient!).
23:43Sir-Al while goom visualization is active, freezes user input
23:55Captain_Murdo| ccache installed and operational. :) I'm changing the proto version to 9 anyway since I added the "UNKNOWN_COMMAND" response from mythbackend if it can't handle the command. In the future, if a new (but optional) command is added, the corresponding function in remoteutil.cpp can check to see if the backend returned UNKNOWN_COMMAND and act accordingly.
23:57mdz Captain_Murdoch: sounds good
23:58mdz I didn't realize there wasn't a response for that yet
23:58Captain_Murdo| the "response" is that the frontend doesn't get a response and pops up that box saying the backend might have gone away. :)
23:58Captain_Murdo| that doesn't happen anymore with my change because sendreceivestringlist gets a reply.
23:58Captain_Murdo| instead of timing out.
---Logclosed Fri Jun 04 00:00:27 2004