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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2004-06-11

---Logopened Fri Jun 11 00:00:00 2004
---Daychanged Fri Jun 11 2004
00:00Captain_Murdo| works cool. just change the videodevice column in the capturecard table from "/dev/video0" to "file:/the/path/to/some/mpeg/file.mpg" and it uses that file as if it were a real tuner spitting out mpeg2 data.
00:00thor2 heh
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00:04mikegrb :)
00:04mikegrb spiffy
00:06Captain_Murdo| doesn't let you change the size or anything, since it just reads the orignal file and writes that back out using Myth's ringbuffer, but good enough for testing and dev on boxes without tuners. will also let people without multiple tuners simulate them if somone was working on scheduling or something.
00:07thor2 always of great help to those with obsessive compulsive disorders
00:09Captain_Murdo| or with wives who missed their favorite show
00:09Captain_Murdo| :)
00:09thor2 heh
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00:58Chutt heh
00:58Captain_Murdo| heh
00:59mikegrb heh
00:59thor2 HAH!
00:59Chutt know what sucks?
01:00Chutt microsoft doesn't have support for c++ streams in win ce
01:00thor2 seriously ?
01:00Chutt yup
01:00Chutt no iostream
01:00thor2 as in cerr << "houston we have a problem" ?
01:00Chutt exactly
01:00Chutt or sstreams
01:00Chutt or fstreams
01:00thor2 printf ?
01:01Chutt yeah, that's there
01:01thor2 heh
01:01thor2 bleading edge
01:01Captain_Murdo| how will fledgling programmers learn to code with no cout << "Hello World!"; ahh, good old printf..
01:01Chutt i can kinda understand the reasoning
01:01Chutt cuts down a lot on space
01:02Chutt but, i've been trying all freakin day to get stlport working
01:02Chutt no luck at all :(
01:02thor2 your right
01:02thor2 that sucks
01:07Captain_Murdo| Chutt, do you mind if I commit that code I mentioned above that will allow us to create "test" tuners that just read mpeg files. It's a small mod to mpegrecorder.cpp and tv_rec.cpp has a lot of the channel code wrapped in "if (channel)" statements since this "tuner" wouldn't support (ie, siltently ignores) channel changes.
01:08Captain_Murdo| there aren't any setup options, just a hand-edit of 1 field in the DB to change "/dev/video0" to "file:/pathname/to/mpegfile.mpg"
01:08Chutt long as it's not too terribly messy, go right ahead
01:10Captain_Murdo| just moved the v4l2 init stuff in another method so there's 1 method that gets called to open/setup the device if it's v4l2 and another if it's a file. then there's a "deviceIsMpegFile" boolean that gets checked in a couple places. like no reason to close the mpeg file if the user pauses and it throttles the reads from the mpeg2 file.
01:12Captain_Murdo| I'll put it in tomorrow night. I'm testing a few things still to make sure that if you give it a small mpeg that it will just loop and things will still work properly. that way if you have a 1/2 hour test recording you can still simulate an actual 1-hour record job happening since the throttling should only read that file twice (or a little over twice) in 1 hour.
01:16Chutt sure
01:17Chutt sounds good
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01:33Captain_Murdo| cool, that works also. just keeps looping and looping and looping until TVRec::TeardownRecorder calls nvr->StopRecording() just like any normal tuner.
01:35* Captain_Murd slumbers off to bed.
01:35* Captain_Murd hmmm, sleepwalking
01:42Chutt sweet.
01:42Chutt it built in release mode.
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01:46Chutt time to see if it works on the sp2003 config
01:54Chutt hrm
01:54Chutt i wonder if the ppc2003 rtti lib works for sp2003
01:55thor2 yuck
02:00thor2 that will be going in soon
02:01Chutt cool.
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02:06Chutt hrmph
02:06Chutt i don't think the rtti lib will work
02:06Chutt therefore, stlport won't either :(
02:10thor2 microsoft does not have RTTI?
02:10thor2 as in, you can't do a dynamic_cast ?
02:11Chutt not for win ce
02:11Chutt or its varianta
02:11Chutt variants
02:11Chutt well, they support it for pocket pc
02:11Chutt with a patch and a set of extra libs
02:11Chutt but, apparently that's not going to work on the smartphone version
02:12thor2 ah
02:12thor2 may be related to the fact that everyone who has said they are going to do a CE smart phone has abandoned their plans ?
02:13Chutt quite possibly =)
02:16thor2 you can't but some type() functions or pure virtual base classes into whatever you're working on ?
02:16thor2 err, can't put
02:17Chutt well, i'm working on getting an iostreams implementation in :p
02:17Chutt that's what i'm trying to use stlport for
02:17Chutt but that requires exceptions
02:17Chutt and rtti
02:18thor2 ah
02:18Chutt so maybe i'll just rewrite some code, instead
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11:15rkulagow_ chutt: here?
11:18Chutt yeah
11:19rkulagow_ do you care if I try to implement the "sort by episode" in playbackbox? it'd be a real-time sort as opposed to another setting.
11:19o_cee that would fit in well with a re-make of all the sorting..
11:19o_cee and view modes
11:22Chutt sure, go ahead
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11:46kvandivo ?, not having updated the cvs code and tested it yet.. does the 'pre notify' thing actually autoskip the commercial, or is it literally just the 'notify' option 2 seconds earlier
11:46Captain_Murdo| just pre-notifies 2 seconds before the commercial starts same as notify just notifies when it starts.
11:46Chutt separate option just for that?
11:47Captain_Murdo| no, just a 4th case on the existing option. fairly easy to add.
11:47Chutt ok
11:47Captain_Murdo| auto-skip is ON/OFF/Notify/Pre-Notify.
11:47kvandivo why 2 seconds?
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11:48Captain_Murdo| pulled it out of my hat
11:48Captain_Murdo| and didn't want another option just to set the prenotify time.
11:48kvandivo :) ok.. let me rephrase.. what was the motivation?
11:48kvandivo i'm just wondering if we need 'notify' anymore..
11:48kvandivo doesn't seem like we need both..
11:48stoffel wouldn't it make sense to remove the Notify-Option then? notifying when a comm. starts doesn't make sense to me.
11:49Captain_Murdo| it tells you how long it is so you don't hit "SKIP" if it says the commercial is 10 minutes long.
11:49kvandivo well, you _definitely_ want to be notified "around the time" a commercial starts..
11:50kvandivo Captain_Murdoch_: i understand the motivation for "notification of how long the commercial is", without a doubt, i'm just wondering what the 2 seconds buys you
11:50Captain_Murdo| I could see myself using the pre more than the plain notify. neither are very much code to implement though. notify is just a few lines to tell it not to actually skip and display "Commercial: length" instead of "Skip: length" in the OSD. pre just added a little code to alert a few seconds ahead.
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11:51Captain_Murdo| for those shows where they keep fading to black all the time so you know a comm is coming up and can hit SKIP as soon as possible. :) those 2 seconds add up to about 10-15 over the course of an hour. ;)
11:51stoffel they add up?
11:52Captain_Murdo| yeah, I could be watching the next show for those 10-15 seconds that I wasted waiting for commercials to start.
11:52kvandivo :)
11:52Captain_Murdo| :)
11:52stoffel :)
11:53kvandivo well, i don't see the point of having both, since the idea is "to tell the user that an upcoming commercial has been detected and that they might want to skip it"
11:53stoffel kvandivo: my point
11:53kvandivo since it is a gray art anyway (i mean, ideally, the commercial could be detected ~2 seconds earlier and the 'pre' part wouldn't be needed
11:54kvandivo but, like you say, it's only a couple lines of code (i know notify was, anyway) so i guess there isn't any harm in having both.. *shrug*
11:56kvandivo Captain_Murdoch_: i still need to get my patch in for having the 'i' button show how long till the next commercial as well as the other info
11:57kvandivo why not tie the 'prenotify' time to the magic number that we use for 'skip' to jump past the upcoming commercial instead of jumping to it.. (it might be, for all i know)
11:57kvandivo it would make perfect sense for the two to be linked
12:03Captain_Murdo| yeah, notify could go away probably, but like I said, it's only probably about 5 lines of code and some people will say "I don't want a message popping up in front of my show 2-seconds ahead"
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12:08rkulagow_ chutt: any plans on helping out zap2it by at least modifying the built-in mythfilldatabase runner to use the entire 24 hour period by default rather than what it has now?
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12:09o_cee Captain_Murdoch_: pm?
12:11Chutt rkulagow, i was going to look into it
12:11rkulagow_ ok
12:16* Captain_Murd is back at kbd.
12:18Captain_Murdo| kvandivo: trying to find that code to check something
12:20Captain_Murdo| those values are hardcoded as well at 20 seconds before the break and 3 seconds after.
12:20kvandivo when we were discussing it before, the issue was the number of lines that were showing.. seems like i had thought about removing one of the existing lines and replacing it with the commercial time line in some cases..
12:20kvandivo ahh.. _that_. :)
12:20kvandivo hmm.. 20 seconds might be a bit much
12:21Captain_Murdo| if the user hits SKIP less than 20 seconds before a break it goes to the end of the break. yeah, 20 would be too much for prenotify and no reason to tie them together unless they're configurable.
12:22kvandivo agreed
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14:26rkulagow_ crap. grad school won't let me take c++ class until i take management core.
14:27hardwir3d huh? what has one to do with the other?
14:27kvandivo it's probably more a matter of, 'what's his advisor plotting?'
14:28thor2 audit
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15:00rkulagow_ i think they want me to get sick of taking non-tech classes and give up before they have to get a real tech person in.
15:01collos hey
15:01collos hello guys
15:01collos can i use mythtv in any way as standalone (on a xbox)
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15:01collos i don't have a extra pc
15:01collos anybody ?
15:02stoffel collos: yes, but read the topic, please.
15:02collos srry
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15:37anduin Chutt - evc4 or maybe Dinkumware?
15:38Chutt evc4 doesn't have iostreams, still
15:38anduin yes, but it has better base support (exceptions)
15:38Chutt dinkumware does, but, i don't want to have to buy it just to see if it'll work
15:38anduin ah
15:38Chutt no exceptions on pocketpc or smartphone
15:39Chutt rtti + exceptions are provided by a patch from ms for pocketpc, but, they apparently crash on casts and really hinder debugging ability
15:39anduin I can imagine
15:40Chutt i'm just going to rewrite some code =)
15:40anduin it could be worse, you could be targeting PalmOS
15:40Chutt next is symbian
15:41Chutt i think
15:41Chutt which means no stl at all =)
15:41anduin time to resurrect your old pre-stl class libraries you have sitting around in a zip file
15:41Chutt heh
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15:43Chutt it's pretty funny how the example code snippets in the evc4 docs all use iostreams
15:44Chutt yet there's no support for em actually there =)
15:44anduin I was never lucky enough to actually use evc4, just to read it was going to solve all the problems I had with evc3 :)
15:45rkulagow_ cool. another company that's going to sell mythtv boxes.
15:45Chutt i can understand removing them and stuff
15:45Chutt but, geez, it wouldn't be that hard to allow people to use an optional library
15:46Captain_Murdo| rkulagow_: easier to support with DD now, wouldn't be suprised if we saw more pop up.
15:46Chutt can't use DD for a commercial box
15:46rkulagow_ they could if they get a license, couldn't they?
15:46Chutt right
15:46rkulagow_ just like how sagetv did it?
15:47Chutt but that's pricey
15:47thor2 rkulagow?
15:47Chutt as opposed to free, at least =)
15:47rkulagow_ yes, thor?
15:47thor2 <rkulagow_> cool. another company that's going to sell mythtv boxes.
15:47Chutt thor, users list
15:47thor2 ah
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15:48anduin Chutt - has there been an unusually large number of people losing the mythtv-users subscriptions?
15:49Chutt no more than normal
15:49Chutt one or two a day, generally
15:49Chutt but, that's probably about right for the amount of people on the list
15:49anduin ok
15:50thor2 well, at least I still own a better url
15:51Chutt that's one of the "companies" that wanted to hire me
15:52thor2 they send you anything sensible, or just 1. Myth 2. ???? 3. Profit
15:52anduin Their tag line it too long to be catchy
15:52Chutt nope, nothing sensible
15:52thor2 heh
15:53thor2 darn
15:53thor2 would be nice if someone would do it something close to well
15:53Chutt eh
15:54kvandivo i like their faqs... "I heard a rumor that My Media Box can download movies on demand. Is that true?" You gotta wonder, really, how frequently they have been asked that question
15:54thor2 i.e. enough money in the bank to build a proper platform and have someone like flextronics crank 'em out
15:55rkulagow_ well, the photo is a pundit
15:55thor2 thus the $1000 price point
15:55thor2 disaster
15:55rkulagow_ and the VOD "whitepaper" is nice, but rapidly falls into the "so what" category. yes, blockbuster _could_ install VOD, but why should they?
15:56jams heh i love the way they described this feature "Play MP3 CDs with cool graphic explosions bouncing to the music"
15:56rkulagow_ plus, once the file is decrypted in order to be played by mythtv, it's decrypted, and that's that.
15:57thor2 well ... non-linked closed source player application
15:57rkulagow_ but, it's easy to snipe, and maybe this is the guy that can do it where others failed
15:57thor2 hopefully
15:58thor2 hmmm, Kansas
15:58rkulagow_ plus, if the frontend is a pundit, there's only room in there for 1 hard drive + another one if you mount it in the 5.25" bay.
15:58rkulagow_ "all we are is dust on the wind" kansas, or some other kind?
15:58kvandivo and if you are going to decode the dvd, why do real time encoding to mpg4 when the consumer requests it?
15:59thor2 whois leads to Kansas
15:59thor2 well, best of luck
16:00kvandivo sounds like they've built bit-torrent into the VOD thing as well
16:00thor2 hmmm ... bit-torrent ... so a shared key
16:00kvandivo well, they don't explicitly say 'bit-torrent', but the meaning is obvious
16:01rkulagow_ so, which users have a DS3 exactly? why not say users that have a gigE can download the movie in 10 seconds!
16:02rkulagow_ although there are folks in scandinavia that have FTTH.
16:12_infrared woohooo
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16:50gfiend ROFL VOD as soon as we work out the licenseing. i.e. never.
16:50thor2 well, they could do it with BBC creative commons archive stuff and what not
16:51rkulagow_ which probably won't have lord of the rings anytime soon
16:51thor2 but shared-key on a torrent for new releases seems, how can one put it, somewhat unlikely
16:52rkulagow_ plus, asymmetric bandwidth on the upload, etc.
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16:56geckofiend I think there's a market there for "buy a PC and we'll install Myth on it for free" for the enthusiasts
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16:56rkulagow_ maybe. but of the 4 people that have contacted me personally to build them a myth box i've had exactly 0 paying customers.
16:56geckofiend but they need to drop the hype.
16:57geckofiend heh I get a lot of "so are you gonna start selling myth boxes?"
16:59thor2 IMHO, purpose-designed and built hardware in volume is the only way to crack this nut
17:02geckofiend yeah in any serious way profit margins on hardware is tight. though there's always folks willing to pay a lot more than stuff is worth in order in order to save the hassle or for the coolness factor.
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17:15bitbyte geck, you still there?
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18:12stillwater anybody have any suggestions for troubles with bttv drivers?
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20:33geckofiend back now bb
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22:24floppyears I have a quick question about mythtv
22:24floppyears how much resources do you need to have in order for it to run smooth.
22:28Captain_Murdo| #mythtv-users might be able to help with that kind of question.
22:29floppyears Captain_Murdoch: thanks a lot
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 12 00:00:48 2004