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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2004-09-13

---Logopened Mon Sep 13 00:00:58 2004
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00:24Chutt hmm
00:27dopester connection issues?
00:29Chutt naw
00:29Chutt bug in the realtime priority stuff
00:29Chutt bad interaction with either X or my kernel - hardlocks my machine
00:29dopester OH.. hehe
00:29dopester thats what i running into
00:30dopester i thought it was the 350.. turned it off.. still did it
00:30dopester doesnt completely take out the machine you can still ping it ive noticed
00:31dopester it just seemed too much like a 350 issue hard locking the machine
00:31dopester or at least seeming to be hardlocking the machine
00:32Chutt turning off the realtime scheduling fixed it?
00:32dopester well that only runs when you are working as root right?
00:33dopester maybe we are talking about different things..
00:34Chutt or have it suid root
00:34Chutt and this would only be a problem with _current_ cvs
00:34Chutt as of the last day or so
00:34dopester ok
00:34dopester that sounds like what im running into
00:35Chutt works fine if you don't run it as root, then?
00:35dopester i got a frontend with busybox.. it runs suid..
00:35dopester its been doing this with current cvs
00:35dopester let me see if i can easily setup a non suid account on it
00:36dopester ok let me nfs boot this guy and play with him some..
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00:44dopester had to install latest cvs on a different image i could change users with
00:44dopester i'll let you know in a sec
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00:52dopester crap i dont have su on that busybox image.. i cant be much help it doesnt look like..
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01:12fishhead yeah well only the developers will know this, if anyone works on the windows frontend port here, is there support for a dvd decoder board
01:14Chutt read the topic.
01:15fishhead I read the topic quit fine
01:15Chutt then you ignored it?
01:15fishhead just asking a question if something is supported or not, nothing else
01:15Chutt there is no 'windows frontend port'
01:16Chutt the question of supported hardware is, by its nature, a support question.
01:16fishhead yeah well the support people don't have a clue, only the people who write the code will know for sure
01:17Chutt guess you're out of luck, then
01:17fishhead guess so
01:18dopester yeah thats it chutt
01:18Chutt fixed it?
01:18dopester yeah
01:18dopester sorry it took so long had to install tinylogin on that box, and set some permissions
01:18Chutt naw, no worries
01:18dopester i didnt want to use a different box
01:18dopester works like a champ now
01:19Chutt waiting for a test compile of the new via crap to finish
01:19dopester i got a unichrome box the other day havent had a chance to see how it does
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01:20Chutt video quality's crappy
01:20Chutt processor's slow
01:20Chutt fan's loud
01:20Chutt what more could you want? :p
01:21dopester a cheap case to put my dev box in that was xpc :)
01:21fishhead chutt type fan
01:21fishhead what type
01:22Chutt how the fuck should i know what type fan via chooses to stick on their motherboards?
01:22fishhead oh one that small
01:22fishhead hmm
01:22Chutt anyone that has one knows that the default fan is too loud.
01:22fishhead if you can find out the sizing
01:23fishhead get a adda fan replacement with "hypro bearing" I think it's their name for fluid bearings
01:23fishhead much quieter and last longer
01:23fishhead anything 80mm and up I would go with panaflo
01:23Chutt funnily enough, i've already replaced the fan in there with something quieter
01:23fishhead :)
01:25fishhead those mini-itx are quite nice for embedded and stuff
01:25dopester the box i got just has that ice cooling crap.. kinda neat.. fans pretty quiet
01:25fishhead unfortunitely all the motherboard makers try to use the cheapest fans they can find, stupid little sleeve bearings that dry out too fast
01:25Captain_Murdo| Chutt, what would cause an encoder (tv_rec.cpp) to go into kState_WatchingPreRecorded state? I see the transcoder checking that but don't see what the encoder would have to do with watchingprerecorded. watchingrecording I know, but pre-?
01:26dopester captain: you see i figured out what was causing my problem.. :)
01:26Chutt it shouldn't
01:26Captain_Murdo| dopester: yeah.
01:26Chutt watching prerecorded should only be frontend
01:27Captain_Murdo| Chutt: that's what I was thinking, but in Transcoder::isFileInUse, he checks "if (elink->GetState() == kState_WatchingPreRecorded) return true;" thought there was something I was missing...
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01:29Captain_Murdo| I've been looking at the transcoder some trying to see how I can merge the queueing into my queue so transcoding benefits from being able to run jobs on other servers, etc..
01:34Chutt yeah
01:34Chutt i don't see any way it can get into that state
01:34Captain_Murdo| maybe he thought it could since there are a few places in tv_rec.cpp that check that state.
01:35Chutt it used to be able to
01:36Captain_Murdo| If I call a method with ClassName::MethodName(), the constructor doesn't get run does it.
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01:40Chutt static method?
01:40Captain_Murdo| yeah.. do you mind if I move encoderlink.* into libs/libmythtv. The JobQueue class is in there since it needs to be accessible from the frontend and backend and I'd like to have the JobQueue thread be able to access the encoder list to query whether the system is busy recording or not. If the system is recording then I'll have it give other servers a chance to pick up a job and run it rather than running it locally since it's b
01:40Captain_Murdo| If no other server picks it up, then it will get run locally.
01:41Chutt why's the jobqueue class in encoderlink.*
01:41Chutt ?
01:42Captain_Murdo| no, opposite. pass in the encoder list to the job queue so the jobqueue loop can decide whether to run a job locally or not depending on whether the system is busy recording.
01:43Chutt encoderlink's stuff that only should be in the backend, though
01:44Captain_Murdo| right. that's why I asked the question about the static method. the frontend only needs the JobQueue class to call a few static methods such as scheduling a job (by inserting a recording into the queue table) or stopping a job (by setting a flag on that record)
01:45Captain_Murdo| the backend is the only thing that calls the constructor and the only thing that would get the list of encoders so it could query EncoderLink::IsBusyRecording();
01:46Chutt i'm still having trouble understanding why that means the frontend needs encoderlink
01:47Captain_Murdo| the frontend doesn't
01:47Chutt so, no need for it in libmythtv, then?
01:48Captain_Murdo| JobQueue::QueueJob() needs to be in libmythtv so the frontend can start a job if it needs to. JobQueue::GetJobsInQueue() needs to be in libmythtv so the frontend can get a list of jobs in the queue and their statuses, etc..
01:49Chutt ok
01:49Captain_Murdo| there's some static methods for things like that and then there is the constructor and main jobqueue loop that run on a backend and checks for and fires off jobs.
01:49Chutt so what's that have to do with encoderlink?
01:49Chutt jobqueue wants to talk to that?
01:50Captain_Murdo| the jobqueue thread running on the backend doesn't have a connection to the backend but I'd like to query the backend to see if it's recording. I could do it through a playback socket, but that seems kinda hokey if I could just query EncoderLink::IsBusyRecording for each encoder in the list.
01:50Captain_Murdo| I thought there were other threads doing that same thing on the backend.
01:51Chutt don't think so
01:51Captain_Murdo| guess it's only the scheduler and the transcoder now that I look at it.
01:51Chutt IsBusyRecording is non-trivial, since it can hit the network
01:52Captain_Murdo| the jobqueue only needs to know about the local encoders. each backend runs the main loop so it can fire off jobs on that backend.
01:52Captain_Murdo| I'll see if I can think of a better way to do it. :) (unless you have any suggestions).
01:53Chutt i dunno
01:53Captain_Murdo| that's a feature I wanted to add (ie, try to run jobs on the least-utilized backend by seeing what the the local backend is doing and not being so quick to snap up a job if the local backend was busy recording).
01:53Chutt it's late =)
01:53Captain_Murdo| not a requirement, but a nice-to-have.
01:53Captain_Murdo| ditto
01:53Captain_Murdo| probably why it took me so long to explain that.
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01:54Captain_Murdo| shoulda been in bed a while ago but was searching for some paperwork I need to take somewhere tomorrow morning.
01:56Captain_Murdo| It's only a nice-to-have so I don't need to rush into implementing it. right now you can at least say "allow/don't-allow job X to run on this backend". so it's more powerful than the "dedicated commercial flagging host" setting that some people are using.
01:56Captain_Murdo| anyway, my contacts are so foggy, visibility is down to about 18" so I should go to bed.
01:56Chutt heh
01:56Chutt i'm just waiting for another test compile to finish
01:57Chutt then i'm checking in, and gettin out of here
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02:05dopester god kenneth kills me
02:09Chutt what'd he do now?
02:10dopester pid stupidity
02:10dopester i did a patch yesterday that is to fix something that is beyond sloppy..
02:11dopester im finding more of it now
02:11dopester he apparently hacked in a buncha other dvb mpeg code in the transform.c stuff
02:16Chutt heh
02:16Chutt allright, stuff committed
02:17dopester his code was setup to crash with more than 1 pid, but the setup help text says you can have a comma seperated list of pids..
02:25dopester brak wants a highbakk
02:25dopester er highball
02:45mdz Chutt: can you switch the website link to the Debian packages to point at unstable?
02:46mdz I haven't been building woody packages for a while now
02:47Chutt done
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02:48mdz thanks
02:49mdz what does the icon that says "pop" indicate?
02:50Chutt i dunno
02:50Chutt lot of hits
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02:53Chutt bed for me
02:53mdz night
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04:32tehh` i have made bulgarian translation of mythv (*.xml + qm/ts) + all modules (except mythphone), whom should i send them to ?
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08:29orogor hi there
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09:09orogor everyone s sleeping , or did i missed an ansewer ?
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09:51orogor hi
09:52orogor sorry for being away , i hope by connexions problems are gone
09:52orogor i am looking for a way to control mythtv , if anyone can point me something
09:52orogor to set sound and stuff
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10:01o_c orogor: topic please
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10:04orogor damn , connexion problem again 8(
10:04o_c orogor: topic please
10:04orogor .... okey
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10:20* vaewyn waves
10:22vaewyn wondering if anyone here is the pcHDTV guru.... I am working on making it work for both ATSC and NTSC and want to make sure I am not dupping effort under way
10:22o_c vaewyn: topic please
10:22o_c bah, nm :)
10:22vaewyn ummm yeah... and this is a devel question
10:22vaewyn :}
10:22o_c don't think they're normally in here
10:23vaewyn nuts... you know who they are? I know the actual pchdtv guys are doing some of it... but wasn't sure if it had gotten taken over by someone closer in the community
10:24vaewyn I'm drooling over what it does so far but it seems to have stalled so... was taking matters into own hands :P
10:24o_c emailing -dev is probably best
10:25vaewyn okies... was hoping to avoid being on another email list but :P
10:25vaewyn thanks for the info
10:25dopester vaewyn: look on the dev list there are a few guys who are working on it their name eludes me now
10:26vaewyn I have seen some people but most seem to be making tweaks rather than working on core... I will email dev though and see what response I get
10:26vaewyn thanks for the info all
10:26dopester yeah you should im pretty sure they are still working on it
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11:23Beirdo wow, some users are frigging clueless
11:23Beirdo <rben> where are the docs?
11:23Beirdo <Beirdo>
11:23Beirdo it's like in the topic of the -users channel too
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13:27thor_ main.cpp:21: error: `hasPrivRequest' undeclared (first use this function)
13:27thor_ hmmm
13:27Chutt heh
13:28thor_ think I need to install libmyth cvs before cvs will finish compiling
13:28thor_ which doesn't sound quite right
13:29Chutt i think your main.cpp might be out of date
13:29thor_ it's trying to include libmyth/mythcontext.h
13:29thor_ I think it wants just mythcontext.h
13:29Chutt shouldn't
13:29thor_ given the -I's
13:29Chutt that function went away, though
13:30thor_ ah
13:30thor_ nm
13:30thor_ start again
13:30Chutt so i think main.cpp is out of date :p
13:32thor_ very odd, working now
13:34Baylink Quick query: how does the front end determine the aspect ratio of the physical display? Someone on -users has a problem when he has *2* configured display sizes of different ratios. Is there a forcing knob somewhere?
13:35thor_ if his problem is with fonts, the DPI on his "other" display is probably a long way from 100X100 DPI ... man XF86Config-4 (or whatever), grep for DisplaySize
13:36Baylink No, it's with rescaling. If he configures a 4:3 *and* a 16:9, myth wants to rescale to 4:3 even if he has the other one selected and running. If he unconfigs it, it works ok.
13:36GreyFoxx I ran into a similar problem , the Aspect as reported by the DisplaySize values was 4:3 and myth was scaling my 720x480 video down to 640x480 even though my display resolution was actually 720x480
13:36Baylink DisplaySize is what I was remembering, though; I'll point that out to him.
13:36Chutt tell him not to use xinerama
13:37Baylink I don't think he is. He has a prrojector and a 21"; he switches cables.
13:38thor_ well, then he doesn't have two displays :-)
13:46Baylink Ctrl-Alt-+ :-)
13:46Baylink No, sorry: the problem happens if his Display section has two different aspect display sizes defines.
13:46Baylink (defined)
14:03Baylink Yeah, Thor_, DisplaySize fixed it. I'll get that one on the Wiki; I'm writing a page on aspect ratio.
14:03thor_ cool
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14:09dopester is there a key to change between cards when watching livetv? i see tunerinputs, but not cards.
14:16thor_ SWITCHCARDS (bound to Y by default, I believe)
14:17Baylink I believe you'll work your way across the cards, yes, with Y in newer releases.
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14:47dopester cool gotta try it..
14:49dopester wow uncovered a nice bug there
14:51Chutt in dvb?
14:52dopester ivtv
14:52dopester switching from my dvb card livetv to ivtv livetv something gets screwed up
14:52dopester i get a splitscreen of the ivtvvideo and some crap on the bottom that looks like cbs
14:52dopester go back to dvb and its ok
14:52dopester go back to dvb and its ok
14:53dopester gonna see if it does it the other way
14:53dopester gotta be a res change not being set or something
14:54dopester the dvb stream i was watching was 544x480 and the ivtv is probbaly 480x480 or 720x480 but certaintly not 544x480
14:55dopester is a new ringbuffer created when you change cards? or does it use the same one?
14:55Chutt new
14:55Chutt playback is completely reinitialized
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14:55dopester let me save 2 livetv nuvs and see if its the backend or ivtv
14:58dopester the ringbuffer file is screwed up
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14:58dopester i bet it dosnt re-set the res or framerate or somethin like that
14:59Chutt there's no such setting
14:59dopester want to see the file?
14:59Chutt not really
14:59Chutt both of your recordings are coming straight from the card
15:00dopester wonder how its getting screwed up on the way to the nuv
15:00Chutt it's not.
15:00Chutt it _can't_ be.
15:00dopester ok
15:05dopester well hell what happened to ivtv.. :)
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15:13dopester yer right chutt.. just one more thing to bitch about the ivtv drivers about i suppose
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15:16Chutt captain_murdoch,
15:16Chutt people using your code :p
15:19Beirdo nice
15:19Beirdo it's good to see the "competition" using your code :)
15:20Beirdo now the question is: what tweaks did they make, and would they be useful for Myth as well?
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15:34thor_ bah, comcast
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18:23thor_ "Replying to this list is harder than it should be."
18:24thor_ whoare these people?
18:24Beirdo how can replying to a mailing list be hard?
18:25thor_ especially when your complaint that it is hard appears on the f*&$ing mailing list
18:25Beirdo hehe
18:25Baylink :-)
18:26Beirdo I make it harder on myself by porting the lists to a newsgroup locally, and using a news reader, but that's my choice
18:26thor_ how do I make my words on appear on the #mythtv irc channel ?
18:26thor_ bah
18:26Beirdo did someone actually ask that?
18:26Baylink "You have moved your mouse. For this change to take effect, your computer must now be restarted."
18:27Baylink That was someone taking the digest, right Thor?
18:27thor_ I have no idea
18:27thor_ I miss stan
18:27Beirdo even then, it's not that hard to reply to the digest
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19:20Chutt baylink, about a week before your subscription expires, yes.
19:27Chutt there, 3 addresses moderated into oblivion on -users
19:28Beirdo as long as they aren't mine :)
19:28Chutt the guy that can't figure out how to reply to things
19:28Beirdo heh. I haven't done anything to piss people off recently that I know of
19:29Beirdo yeah, learn to use email, or get off the mailing list, sheesh
19:30Chutt if you don't know how to use email, that's a rather good indication that you're not going to be able to get mythtv working
19:30Beirdo yeah, for sure
19:31Beirdo we get a few true ignoramuses like that on the -users channel, I try very hard not to flame the crap outta them
19:31Chutt i really should camp in there some time
19:31Beirdo if you want something to work simply and with superb support, pay snapstream and shut it :)
19:31Beirdo hehe
19:32Beirdo you're welcome to camp in there, but I'd suggest using a nick nobody knows :)
19:32Beirdo or you will likely get mobbed
19:33Chutt hm
19:33Chutt who should get mythvideo bugs by default?
19:33Beirdo heh. That I dunno :)
19:34Beirdo Jeez, there's a lot of people borking their 0.16 upgrades, I just don't understand it
19:34Beirdo it compiled clean for me (CVS 2h before the release)
19:35Chutt i did a complete from scratch install
19:35Chutt didn't test an upgrade from 0.15, but, that should be the same as updating cvs continually
19:35splat1 nn all
19:35--- User: *** splat1 is now known as splAt1
19:35Beirdo it upgraded fine from 0.15.1 to 0.16 for me (atrpms and by hand)
19:36* Beirdo shrugs
19:40Baylink Ah; thanks, Isaac.
19:40Baylink We won't blow your cover on -users, BTW. :-)
19:41Baylink I'm having plugin troubles with 0.16 myself. Make's all ran fine in a new tree, but the make installs seem to be failing for weather, video, and a couple other modules.
19:41Beirdo as long as the nick doesn't match and the user doesn't say ijr, 80% of the people would never know you were there
19:45mocker The only problem I had was being impatient and doing a dist-upgrade from at-bleeding.
19:45mocker But that wasn't anything I couldn't fix.
19:48mdz Chutt: what's #undef printf about?
19:48mdz s/printf/fprintf/
19:48mdz oh, I see
19:49mdz common.h:#define fprintf please_use_av_log
19:49mdz how clever
19:49Beirdo good idea
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20:20god hey, can someone helpe me with mythmusic. the debian package installed but it wont "initialize" and it wont compile either so I can't manually install it
20:21mocker god: Try mythtv-users, this isn't the support channel.
20:24Beirdo hehe, should make Chanserv camp here and send a 20 line page saying that to anyone that enters the channel
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21:48Captain_Murdo| not sure what other "tweaking" those guys did on the comm detect code, but it looks like their main thing was converting it back into C and un-Qt-ing it.
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21:50snowblind hmm
21:50Beirdo heh
21:50Beirdo quite the tweak
21:51Captain_Murdo| they do make a lot of the values I had hardcoded configurable, but most Myth users wouldn't know what to do with all those settings.
21:51Captain_Murdo| anyway, gotta run for a while. did download their latest source so I can diff it to see if they have anything worthwhile in it.
21:51Beirdo might be nice to have an "uber-advanced mode" :)
21:51Beirdo cool
21:53Captain_Murdo| yeah, I thought about making some things undocumented settings in the settings table, but like they say on their page, the values are usually determinate on what show/channel you're recording, so it'd get kinda complicated to have multiple sets of values, so I tried to get some ones that worked fairly well across the board and then work from there.
21:53Captain_Murdo| bbl
21:57Beirdo yeah, it works pretty well 99% of the time :)
22:19Chutt captain_murdoch, thread said they're doing a new logo detect routine
22:19Chutt that supposedly works better for transparent images
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22:20rkulagow_ chutt: did you get that segfault i mailed about 15m ago?
22:20thor_ btw, you sure you wanted to refer god to another channel?
22:20Chutt yeah
22:21Chutt what version of qt are you running?
22:21Chutt it's dying inside of qtstring.arg(), for no apparent reason
22:22rkulagow_ masterbackend is debian testing. that's 3.3.3 i think
22:22Beirdo Hey, Chutt, ever thought of getting Chanserv to do the channel login message?
22:22rkulagow_ yeah, 3.3.3
22:22rkulagow_ bbl
22:23Beirdo a long message reinforcing the topic or something
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22:34Captain_Murdo| <---- no wonder that guy went with Freevo if he couldn't figure out that Myth uses MySQL instead of Postgres.
22:35* Captain_Murd goes back to lurking
22:35dopester is that the postgres dude?
22:35thor_ still, "Rotated TV Picture" sounds pretty cool
22:35Captain_Murdo| no just some freevo user with a description of his freevo pvr on the net.
22:36dopester i suppose i could pull up safari and take a look :)
22:36dopester freevo is python?
22:37dopester im gonna write an htpc in :)
22:37thor_ oh, a safari user, quick compile & run mfd and tell me if it shows up
22:39Beirdo Captain_Murdoch: heh.
22:39Beirdo I like the efficiency of a compiled package over interpreted python
22:40dopester thor: ?
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22:45thor_ oh damn
22:46thor_ I wanted to ask him about original sin
22:46thor_ nm
22:46dopester heh
22:46thor_ dopester, safari/rendezvous should see http interface into mfd
22:46dopester i wanted to ask him if the popes shit stinks
22:46dopester im talking about the osx browser
22:47thor_ yup
22:47thor_ me too
22:47dopester im totally lost i just got this thing like 2 weeks ago
22:47dopester mfd..
22:47thor_ well, when you have a moment, do a cvs checkout of mfd on a myth box, build it, run it, and check your Rendezvous drop down in Safari
22:48thor_ (as long as the myth box and the OS X box are not more than one router hop away)
22:48dopester oki
22:49dopester your drawing me away from dvbrecorder.cpp now.. thats probbably not a good thing :)
22:49thor_ no, no, just some time when you're bored
22:49dopester who wants to go to finland with me and beat kenneth? :)
22:50thor_ he can be very pleasant at times
22:51Beirdo you pay the airfare, I'm all for it
22:51dopester i just wish he would show up
22:51Beirdo just to go to Finland :)
22:54dopester naw its actually having a scapegoat
22:54dopester uh actually nice
23:02dopester which would be prefered using qvaluelists or vectors?
23:02dopester or qptrvector
23:03thor_ what's it a list of?
23:03thor_ and how do you need to look things up on the list ?
23:04dopester list of program stream ids
23:04thor_ int's ?
23:04dopester i can use either just wasnt sure if it was prefered to use qobjs or not for simple things like that
23:04dopester yeah uint16_ts
23:05dopester actually i may have answered my own question.. they can also have a language associated with them.. which i assume qstring is the way to go with myth?
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23:05thor_ depends on how many (order of magnitude), and whether you need to count over all of them (iterate), or randomly access them quickly (in which case, QIntDict's are pretty snazy)
23:06dopester need to iterate them
23:06dopester i.e. which language do you prefer.. iterate find entry and open that pid type thing
23:07thor_ well, doesn't sound like there's enough of them to make much of a difference
23:07mikegrb hello from soon to be underwater pensacola, fl
23:08thor_ mikegrb, too bad, you just missed god
23:08mikegrb hehe
23:08mikegrb it's okay, I'm an ordained minister
23:10thor_ ah well, then you've obviously got nothing to worry about
23:10mikegrb hehe
23:10mikegrb current projected path is almlost directyl over us
23:11mikegrb looks like it is expected to go over mobile, alabama which is about a 25 minute drive west from here
23:11thor_ you might want to think about driving east
23:12mikegrb hehe
23:12mikegrb heidi is in the hospital
23:12mikegrb so I'll be taying ere with her
23:12thor_ heh
23:12mikegrb so when the power is out for three weeks I will be able to keep my laptop and cell phone charged
23:13mikegrb and hopefully have internet access if cell towers are up or they bring in those nifty disaster areas ones in
23:13thor_ any Hunter Isaac updates ?
23:14mikegrb hospital has a wifi network with an ap just outside heidi's room bu it has wep and I have airport extreme card so no crackuing for me
23:14mikegrb he is not out yet
23:14mikegrb over 5 lbs
23:14thor_ good and good
23:14mikegrb breathing or practicing
23:14thor_ not thinking of changing the name to Ivan, I assume
23:14mikegrb he is in birthing position with his head thorougly wedged in heidi's "naughty spot"
23:15mikegrb no but his nickname will likely be hunter the huricane
23:20dopester havent really had one here this year (nc)
23:22Beirdo don't jinx it, dopester
23:22dopester true
23:22dopester if its not a hurricane it will be an ice storm
23:22dopester i pretty much have had to spend 36hrs straight once a year at the switch because of some kinda weather taking out 2/3 of our network
23:24Beirdo heh, yeah
23:24Chutt As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following mailing list posting:
23:24Chutt From:
23:24Chutt Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Reply template
23:24Chutt Yeah, I know I've been a big pain, and I am sorry.
23:24Chutt Y'all don't deserve it - you are not the problem.
23:24Chutt But I needed templates to use in figuring out how to
23:24Chutt get GMAIL to handle replying. This is an example of
23:24Chutt using GMAIL to do just that.
23:24Chutt If this reply shows up in the mailing list as a reply,
23:24Chutt and it's part of a thread, then I'll go away.
23:24Chutt bahahahahaha
23:25thor_ classic
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23:33dopester uh huh
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 14 00:00:22 2004