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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2005-02-17

---Logopened Thu Feb 17 00:00:03 2005
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00:17rkulagow_ i guess dopester isn't here.
00:17rkulagow_ i got my Air2PC installed.
00:17rkulagow_ (figured he'd be jazzed)
00:18Chutt heh
00:18Chutt i still have to do that :(
00:18rkulagow_ i set it up on a new box instead of integrating with my existing.
00:18rkulagow_ running gentoo. wasn't too terrible.
00:19rkulagow_ now i just need to see if it's capturing
00:20rkulagow_ and to figure out udev.
00:20Chutt heh
00:20warlord anyways, g'night all.
00:20warlord thanks, Chutt
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00:53rkulagow_ so i just used the last port on my 1x8 amp/splitter
00:58Captain_Murdo| I need to get another one for my air2pc card so I can get another one of those and hook it to the same antenna. no QAM for me it appears from when I did my scan.
01:02rkulagow_ well, i don't know yet how to interpret what azap was telling me, dopesters not here, and i'm not even sure i have all the device nodes setup correctly yet
01:03rkulagow_ this mean anything to you?
01:03rkulagow_ azap wycc
01:03rkulagow_ using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0'
01:03rkulagow_ tuning to 515000000 Hz
01:03rkulagow_ video pid 0x0000, audio pid 0x0000
01:03rkulagow_ status 00 | signal 7440 | snr 5b68 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 |
01:04rkulagow_ i'm all befuddled. but that's good for a HOWTO i guess.
01:04rkulagow_ :)
01:05Captain_Murdo| I think you want it to have a FE_HAS_LOCK at the end.
01:05Captain_Murdo| status 1f | signal fcb0 | snr e014 | ber 00000d30 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
01:05Captain_Murdo| status 1f | signal fce0 | snr de6c | ber 00000060 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
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01:05rkulagow_ yeah, in that case i don't have much yet.
01:06Captain_Murdo| are you sure it loaded the firmware? I spent about a half hour or more messing with the card then realized I didn't have the firmware.agent hotplug script so my firmware wasn't being loaded.
01:10rkulagow_ ah, maybe that's it. i was following angel li's stuff that dopester helped out with, i guess there maybe missing stuff.
01:10rkulagow_ let me check.
01:10Captain_Murdo| yeah, I used angel's guide also.
01:11rkulagow_ does your ~/.azap/channels.conf have anything after the 8VSB? mine has 0:0; the us-Raleigh has numbers
01:11Captain_Murdo| yeah, WVBT:563000000:8VSB:0:0
01:12Captain_Murdo| all have 0:0, not sure what that is.
01:12rkulagow_ well, i have a firmware.agent script, so maybe not that. anything in /var/log/messages indicating a firmware load?
01:13Captain_Murdo| the scan worked pretty good in Myth once I had the card receiving. then I went in and setup the xmltv ids for the channels that the scan detected and I was grabbing data.
01:13rkulagow_ i've got:
01:13rkulagow_ Feb 16 23:12:42 backend-2 nxt2002: Waiting for firmware upload...
01:13rkulagow_ Feb 16 23:12:42 backend-2 nxt2002: Waiting for firmware upload(2)...
01:13rkulagow_ Feb 16 23:12:42 backend-2 done.
01:13rkulagow_ which should be ok.
01:13Captain_Murdo| yeah, hold a sec.kernel: nxt2002: firmware upload complete
01:14Captain_Murdo| that should be right after the "done" you pasted.
01:14rkulagow_ nopenope, doesn't look like it.
01:14Captain_Murdo| maybe it's not finding your firmware. check your hotplug script to see where it's looking
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01:19rkulagow had to switch to another machine
01:19rkulagow ok, i guess i need to figure out why the firmware isn't being loaded.
01:20Captain_Murdo| that was my biggest issue, everything else was a piece of cake once I got that figured out. the guide was pretty good and the scan worked. I used the 2.6.11-rc3 kernel so I didn't have to patch anything.
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01:21rkulagow yeah, i've got 2.6.11-rc4. didn't you need to apply the qam patch? dopester said that qam support wouldn't be until 2.6.12
01:22Captain_Murdo| qam patch is in it 2.6.11-rc3 it appears. I downloaded the patch and tried applying it and it asked me if I wanted to reverse. so I checked the driver in the kernel and it was there already.
01:23Captain_Murdo| unless the dvb-kernel patched it in for me when I ran the script in there, but I doubt that.
01:24rkulagow huh. that didn't happen to me at all. i did 2.6.11-rc4 tarball + the qam patch on dopesters website. i didn't get any rejects, and i didn't download dvb-kernel (he said that rc3 already had the dvb stuff that you'd get from dvb-kernel)
01:25rkulagow well, i'm rebooting now, so we'll see what happens when it comes back
01:26Captain_Murdo| do you have that patch url handy?
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01:28rkulagow yeah
01:28rkulagow hold one
01:29rkulagow # pushd .
01:29rkulagow # cd linux-2.6.11-rc4/drivers/media/dvb/frontends
01:29rkulagow # wget
01:29rkulagow # patch -p0 < nxt2002-qam.patch
01:29rkulagow # popd
01:31Captain_Murdo| did you use dvb cvs?
01:31rkulagow nope;
01:31rkulagow but then again, mine doesn't work yet, so i may not be the best source of info right now!
01:32rkulagow do you have all those devices in /dev/dvb/adapter0? i've only got 4 - haven't created the ones in Angel's HOWTO yet
01:33Captain_Murdo| I created those I think using the commands on the HOWTO.
01:33Captain_Murdo| have 8 devices
01:33rkulagow hrmm. i'm only getting 4 installed by the default {whatever} that's creating them. let me go check.
01:35Captain_Murdo| I used dvb-kernel cvs from the HOWTO. the dvb-kernel has the qam patch, so linux-2.6.11-rc3 doesnt. that explains it.
01:36Captain_Murdo| I'm using a hacked up redhat9 install so I created some of that stuff by hand. had to go googling for a firmware.agent file.
01:37rkulagow well, i can see from the script that the 0:0 after 8VSB is hardcoded
01:39rkulagow ok, the firmware upload message only shows up once i run azap
01:39rkulagow but i'm not getting that completed message that you pasted in.
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01:43rkulagow that looks suspiciously like the audio and video pid i'm getting when azap does the scan
01:44Captain_Murdo| are you getting the following? "timeout error writing tuner"
01:44rkulagow nope
01:45Captain_Murdo| I occasionally saw this also.. "no firmware upload"
01:45Captain_Murdo| nxt2002: no firmware upload (timeout or file not found?)
01:45Captain_Murdo| I think I got the timeout messages when I ran the myth scan, don't remember if they showed up when I ran azap
01:46rkulagow well, it's a mystery. i'll see if dopester's around tomorrow
01:46Captain_Murdo| let me check the source, maybe that complete message is only in the cvs version.
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01:49rkulagow you know what? i seem to remember that comcast has HD on channels 180-190 something. that tuning frequency from antennaweb seems like it's the regular "low" freq.
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01:49Captain_Murdo| yeah, that's not in the 2.6.11-rc3 source, maybe it's only in the cvs dvb-kernel.
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01:49Captain_Murdo| you have this on your cable? those freqs are for OTA, not cable.
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01:50Captain_Murdo| if you have it on cable, and it seems the firmware is loaded cause there's no errors, then you should try the scan in myth's setup.
01:52rkulagow ok, i just checked, and "WGN-DT" is on channel 192.
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01:55rkulagow ok, so i'm compiling CVS now. should take a while on the p3/733. time for SG-1 in that case. bbl
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04:02johnp_ morning, is there a method for creating a borderless/frameless vertical container using the widgets in settings.* ? I've got an issue where I'm using Vertical and Horizontal configuration groups for layout, but they're eating a "margin" of screen space on each nest.
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08:22didde greetings #mythtv!
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08:33Analyzer hello all
08:33Analyzer i have a problem with starting of mythtv
08:34Analyzer analyzer@localhost ~ $ mythtv
08:34Analyzer 2005-02-17 23:38:24.228 Switching to square mode ()
08:34Analyzer 2005-02-17 23:38:24.232 Unable to connect to database!
08:34Analyzer 2005-02-17 23:38:24.234 Driver error was [1/1045]:
08:34Analyzer QMYSQL3: Unable to connect
08:34Analyzer Database error was:
08:34Analyzer Access denied for user: 'mythtv@localhost' (Using password: YES)
08:34Analyzer couldn't open db
08:34Analyzer 2005-02-17 23:38:24.235 Switching to square mode (blue)
08:34Analyzer 2005-02-17 23:38:24.933 Joystick disabled.
08:34Analyzer Segmentation fault
08:34Analyzer HOW I CAN FIX IT???
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08:43_GeckoFiend Analyzer see /topic
08:43Analyzer i was there
08:44Analyzer laga say me that i must recompile with debug flags and going here
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09:07o_cee just look at the database error..?
09:09Analyzer o_cee, what u mean?
09:19shadash Hi all if anybody is interested I've been working with Cyberlink the makers of Powerdvd. If I do an NDA they will allow a developer to tailor it to Myth/Linux needs (currently it doesn't have command line arguements) For those who don't know if you plan on selling a Myth based system you can't legally distribute decss. This would allow legal dvd playback.
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09:32thor_ Hmmm ....
09:33thor_ Nothing is stopping anyone from making an "outside"/closed-source module that would work with Myth
09:34thor_ but I don't think any core developers would want to get tainted by an NDA encumberance
09:35shadash that's the idea. I don't want to take away from what's already there. Just add more functionality to what's currently available
09:35shadash thor_: I'll see what they're willing to do
09:36shadash The would be an outside "Module" people could purchase / integrate in to myth. And btw I have their closed source dvd player and it's actually pretty good.
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09:37thor_ if they had a module that worked really well (complete robust menu support, top notch video quality inside X, etc) I suspect some Myth users would happily pay for it
09:37shadash menu support is already there
09:37thor_ right, but it has to better than xine
09:37shadash problem is there's no command line agruements
09:38shadash it's equivalent to xine. But takes less cpu b/c it doesn't have to unencrypt the cd before playback
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09:40shadash I believe in open source but in this case a closed source app actually does make sense. To get a DVD license from the DVD consortium costs over 10K per year.
09:40thor_ well, in addition to command line arguments, in an ideal world you'd want hooks into the running code so you could do things like myth style OSD, handling jump points, etc.
09:41kvandivo a true api, in other words. :)
09:41thor_ err, what he said
09:42shadash I'll keep you posted with their response. here's a snip of the last email..
09:42shadash We would be more than happy to co-develop the PowerDVD for Linux to
09:42shadash allow it to integrate more easily into or any
09:42shadash other Linux application that needs DVD playback.
09:43shadash that was after an email where they asked that we help them codevelop
09:44shadash One interesting thing about PowerDVD for linux over other commercial solutions is that they're not using a wine-a-fied directX to display to X
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10:07thor_ you'll want an opinion from Chutt, of course
10:08shadash he's not into it :-( Says closed source sux
10:09shadash which generally I agree with. But in this case closed source is a better solution
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10:10thor_ well, he's right
10:14Chutt no, i didn't say that
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10:14Chutt i said i'm not interested in a closed source dvd player
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10:17shadash sorry Chutt, mis-quoted you
10:17Chutt and it's certainly not a better solution, if no actual integration with myth is possible.
10:19shadash my idea is that if it had command line arguments like mplayer. Myth could call it the same way it works with mplayer,xine,ogle
10:19Chutt which is a horrible way to do things.
10:19shadash not really integration... more like another option
10:20thor_ I don't think anyone would pay for it if it didn't offer much better integration with Myth
10:20Chutt quite stupid, really.
10:20thor_ save the possible existence of a US-based commercial myth box seller
10:21hadeees Chutt, i agree it is a horrible way to do things however since the current open source dvd players are tech against US laws, it wouldn't hurt to have a back up
10:21thor_ the players are not against the law
10:22thor_ they all do run time checking for libdecss
10:22_GeckoFiend shadash and they'd need to support playback from ISO as well as include their DVD ripper with it
10:22shadash that doesn't work although I have tried it. ;-)
10:23shadash you can mount an iso then play specific vob? (movie) files though
10:23thor_ you can't play the entire ISO from "menu" root?
10:24shadash which means you can also legally use dd to backup dvd's to harddrive
10:24shadash thor_: not being able to play a mounted dvd is a limitation of the current software. I think it can be fixed
10:25thor_ ah, I see
10:25shadash I mean mounted iso
10:25shadash it can play a mounted dvd without a problem
10:25thor_ yup, gotcha
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11:09_GeckoFiend bleh. Three different teams, all with deadlines of EOB tomorrow (which I don't work) all need me all day long. None of them want to take no for an answer
11:10Beirdo quick, clone yourself
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12:14johnp_ Does anyone know if _rkulagow_ and Captain_Murdoch got their air2pc cards going ? (Dopsters asking)
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12:14evilx hello, i need some help with lirc and gentoo
12:17StefanD guess the same people that is here is in mythtv-users too, but i really need to understand what is wrong. Since upgrading to 0.17 i can't watch Live TV or record any TV. Getting "Using protocol version 14" and "RemoteFile::Read() failed in RingBuffer::safe_read()" messages the whole time when trying to watch Live TV. And i have to kill mythfrontend to get it to stop
12:19kylector evilx: I'm stuck with lirc too, although I'm on slack10. what remote are you trying to get working?
12:20evilx well i dont have a reciver , just a irda transmitter
12:20evilx it might also be a reciver , aint sure
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12:21stoffel_ guys, read the topic please.
12:21evilx shadash: that what im looking for thanks
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12:22evilx i had that booked marked before i redid linux , with resier4
12:22evilx and i forgot to backup my bookmarks
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12:23evilx sorry
12:25evilx shadash: that url dont work
12:25evilx 404
12:25evilx i forgot the l in html
12:27Chutt what part of 'read the topic please' is hard to understand?
12:29evilx that part , where i was saying thanks
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13:00_GeckoFiend hmmm wonder how Myth would look in this:
13:01_GeckoFiend chutt: do you have your air2pc running? I'm going to order a new HD card Monday or so and I'm not sure If I want to get a another 3k or an air2
13:01Chutt nope
13:01Chutt haven't had time to yet
13:02kvandivo that doesn't look like a kid friendly room
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13:04_rkulagow_ gfiend: i think i'm 99% there with my Air2PC card.
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15:50Baylink Hey, Cap.
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16:08Captain_Murdo| hey, started this up and got called away on something. keep it up to lurk sometimes. :)
16:09dja with 91 people on, I suspect there's a lot of lurking (myself included :-)
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16:17Baylink Got it.
16:17Baylink Me too.
16:17Baylink One last problem with transcode.
16:23Captain_Murdo| what's that?
16:24Baylink It still blows it's brains out if there are marked commercials for the program:
16:24Baylink it appears to transcode into *uncompressed frames*, according to Beirdo's nuvscan
16:24Baylink We end up going from 1.6GB to 11+; once over 40.
16:25Baylink I dunno if it's recorded/commflagged or recordedmarkup/4,5 that pisses it off; I suspect the latter.
16:25Captain_Murdo| you ran nuvscan on the resulting file?
16:26Captain_Murdo| and still have it? (a/the bad file)
16:26Baylink I'd have to check.
16:27Baylink I could certainly *make* one easy enough. :-)
16:27Baylink In fact, that may be the best solution.
16:27Captain_Murdo| I've transcoded shows with and without the cutlist and with commercial breaks marked and never seen that. are these mpeg2->mpeg4 or mpeg4->mpeg4 and with or w/o cutlists?
16:28Baylink 2->4; cutlists don't bother it.
16:28Baylink This problem is *old*.
16:28Baylink Maybe all the way back into .15
16:28Captain_Murdo| mine have all been 2-4, that's why I asked. I've only used the transcoder once up until a month or two ago.
16:29Captain_Murdo| are you sure that the file wasn't totally hosed or was nuvscan actually spitting out packets that made sense except for the size.
16:29gr8nash Captain_Murdoch have you tried the transcoder with HD streams?
16:29Baylink nuvscan id'd the packets ok, they were just wrong.
16:30Baylink Beirdo might remember; he interpreted the output for me.
16:30Captain_Murdo| gr8nash: yeah, I added the resize ability because I have an air2pc card. It took my P3-1Ghz about 3 hours to transcode/resize a 1920x1088 1-hour recording down to 352x480 so I could play it on my slow frontend box. :)
16:30Baylink I may still have a nuvscan.out file around, if that will be informative.
16:30Beirdo nuvscan just reads what's actually in the file
16:30Beirdo nuv frame by nuv frame
16:30Baylink Do you remember what it said about that busted one, when I mailed you the output?
16:31gr8nash Captain_Murdoch.. thanks you the man!
16:31Beirdo yeah, after a bit, almost all of the video frames were either raw or raw with LZO
16:31Captain_Murdo| but did the rest of the frame info make sense (ie, the timecodes incrementing, etc.)
16:32Beirdo I think so
16:32Baylink I don't know that we've ever tried to *play* one of them, post-transcode.
16:32Beirdo there is code in there to go with raw frames under CPU congestion or something. it's designed for during recording
16:32Beirdo but I think the transcoder does it too
16:33Baylink Shouldn't it special-case out for hardware encoders?
16:33Captain_Murdo| if so that code is in the recorder somewhere, not in transcode.
16:34Beirdo it's likely common code in the recorder that should be bypassed by transcoding
16:34Captain_Murdo| transcode just calls NuppelVideoRecorder::WriteVideo() same as the normal recording process calls.
16:34Beirdo the CPU checks should be bypassed for transcoding, there's no need to be real-time
16:35Baylink I believe we've still got a broken ep laying around. It's 15GB...
16:35Captain_Murdo| looks like it's based on buffer slots free, not cpu.
16:36Beirdo ah, that could be, Captain_Murdoch, it was months ago I looked at it and my memory can suck at times
16:36Baylink Is transcode instrumented that we could tickle it's bug and look at a trace file or something?
16:36Captain_Murdo| I'll take a look at it and see if I can see what might be causing that and make a way for the transcoder to bypass.
16:37Baylink Cap: what kind of beer are you fond of? :-)
16:37Captain_Murdo| if you can reproduce the problem, you could put some cerr debug statements in NuppelVideoRecorder::WriteVideo in the places where it says "speed up the encode process" to see if it is truly turning off compression to save cpu.
16:37Baylink Should i open a bug on this, so there's a place to put the patch?
16:38Captain_Murdo| don't drink, strongest thing is Pepsi. :)
16:38Baylink Irn Bru? Vimto?
16:38Captain_Murdo| if a patch is found, I'll put it straight in CVS. :)
16:38Baylink Luzianne?
16:38Baylink Rog.
16:38Captain_Murdo| Lipton mainly. although some others occasionally when I drink hot tea.
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16:39mikegrb who was it asking about searching closed captions and stuff
16:39Baylink I like Lipton for iced tea. Luzianne is nice, though, too, under the same glassware conditions as beer.
16:39Beirdo Baylink: you can get me booze though if you so feel inclined :)
16:39Baylink Not me, but put me down for that, too. :-)
16:39Baylink Cool.
16:39mikegrb <-- search video via closed captions
16:40kvandivo mikegrb: if they had wanted to search closed caption, that would have been fine.. the guy didn't trust CC, though, and was wanting to do the speech to text conversion and use that
16:40mikegrb <- example
16:40kvandivo that was the part that struck me as a supreme waste of time
16:40mikegrb kvandivo: well he wanted to use voice recognition to figure out how the cc related to video, ie so you could playback the exact spot in the video
16:40mikegrb but yes, it was a supreme waste of time
16:41Baylink That's not too hard to do.
16:41mikegrb I mentioned the google video thing to him at the time though I couldn't remember if it was google or someone else
16:41mikegrb and it hadn't been announced yet
16:41kvandivo in the realm of low hanging fruit that is way up there on the top of the tree when it comes to things that could added to myth
16:41Baylink The captions always *lead* the video, so they can snap on at the beginning of a line.
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16:43mikegrb Baylink: unless it is live
16:43mikegrb Baylink: then the captions lag the video from 10 - 45 or even over a minute
16:43Baylink Yeah
16:44kvandivo "live"? what is this "live" that you speak of?
16:44Baylink Not around here. Course, most live news comes from the prompter copy
16:44mikegrb yes
16:44mikegrb and in my experience most local tv stations just feed prompter text into CC
16:44mikegrb which is interesting as when I can hear them I can see how much they screw up what there were supposed to say
16:45mikegrb it it says stuff like [ad lib throw to weather]
16:45mikegrb but then it means there aren't CC for the weather forecast :<
16:45mikegrb so I just look on the web to see what the weather is going to be like
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17:20o_cee yey mythui commit :)
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17:45* mikegrb commits o_cee
18:02Captain_Murdo| Baylink & Beirdo, I don't see where the encoder will switch from compressed to uncompressed frames when using avcoded to compress. I see where it will bypass compression when using rtjpeg, but not when using mpeg4 with avcodec. I'll try to go over it again, but right now I don't see anything that stands out.
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18:09Beirdo hmmm. well that's what it did at one point, but it may have changed since for all I know
18:09mikegrb and you don't know much, eh fellow canook?
18:09Captain_Murdo| for avcodec or just rtjpeg?
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18:11Captain_Murdo| I don't see where the "compressthis" flag makes any difference if you're using libavcodec. maybe something is overwriting a variable or something and it'd kicking into rtjpeg mode.
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18:20Beirdo well, I don't remember from the code side, but from the output, I assure you it did do it to Baylink :)
18:21Beirdo I may actually still have that output log somewhere
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18:31Chutt it shouldn't be doing the uncompressed frame thing with avcodec
18:32Beirdo that's what I thought too. Baylink had some files like that a few months ago, and it sounded like it was doing it to him again perhaps
18:33Chutt rtjpeg, though, yeah
18:33Chutt but not avcodec
18:33Beirdo yeah, makes sense. wonder what happened to cause it to his files...
18:33Beirdo of course, he's not here now to elucidate.
18:35Beirdo it was Oct 23 when he dumped one such file, still have the output of nuvscan for it
18:36Beirdo aha
18:36Beirdo it is an RTJPEG file after all
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18:53bomba the 2001FP is $507 currently
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18:53bomba err, wrong channel!
18:53bomba :)
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19:59m0tion hey chutt, what kind of projector do you have?
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20:13nicedreams any mythtv developers here?
20:15nicedreams my company is creating a set top box using MythTV technology and many other advanced modules and features not offered with Myth to take on MS and Sony in a living room appliance
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20:15nicedreams i'm looking for developers for modules and a few engines under linux
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20:16Chutt heh
20:16Chutt 'advanced modules and features'
20:16Chutt very descriptive.
20:16nicedreams i can't just say the business plan here
20:16nicedreams :)
20:20Captain_Murdo| better think up a good one for getting the Guide data. :)
20:22Chutt m0tion, panasonic pt-ae700u, btw.
20:23Chutt heh, that last commit really makes a big difference in the image quality
20:23Chutt no more needless scaling
20:23Chutt probably faster, too.
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20:25Torq nicedreams: so checkin your new code to cvs
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20:32nicedreams sry...been talking to shadash on pm
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20:34Beirdo so let me get this right, nicedreams... you want developers to help you make money off free software?
20:34Chutt heh
20:34Chutt i thought you wanted to talk to developers.
20:34Beirdo good luck with that quest.
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20:36nicedreams basicly creating a unit that will be a complete unit that sits in the living room like a dvd playing and looks like one too
20:36nicedreams no fans
20:37nicedreams and has advanced modules like buying movie tickets with your remote from your tv
20:37rw nicedreams, i heard that there are people being paid for that. Can't your company pay a full-time developer for it?
20:38Beirdo and how much of this code do you expect to be giving back to the community?
20:38Chutt well, if they're actual myth modules, all of it =)
20:38Chutt gpl headers and all
20:38Torq leechers
20:38rw lol
20:39nicedreams we'll make a new front end if we have to
20:39Chutt then it wouldn't be myth anymore, really
20:39nicedreams rw, that's why i'm here
20:39nicedreams there is a lot of tallent here
20:39Captain_Murdo| and backend. :) and libraries. :) might as well start from scratch.
20:39nicedreams i could just post some job listings locally, but want to get into the comunity that is interested and really wants to be involed
20:39rw nicedreams, hire Chutt, he is cheap, only 200k / year plus 401k plan
20:40Torq hey, you pay me...
20:40Chutt heh
20:40nicedreams i've tried getting ahole of the developer of MythTV, but he hasn't emailed me back
20:40Chutt that's me, btw.
20:40nicedreams ahold
20:40shadash hehe
20:40rw Chutt, lost a 200k job dude!
20:40nicedreams wow
20:40Chutt i generally only respond to 'i want to make a commercial version of myth' emails every couple weeks
20:40Chutt do them all in a batch
20:41Torq theres more than one developer of mythtv...
20:41nicedreams does Issac come in here?
20:41rw hahaha
20:41nicedreams well...if i need to form a team, then i will
20:41rw dreamers. you are doing this for 3 years! if it was easy chutt would be in the fortune magazine!
20:41nicedreams we have the backing and now i just need the correct team
20:41rw nicedreams, he IS isaac
20:41nicedreams chutt?
20:41Torq dreamer: why dont you go hire ron jeremy now?
20:42Chutt yes.
20:42rw yup.
20:42Beirdo nicedreams: wake up and pay attention :)
20:42nicedreams oh..
20:42nicedreams hi
20:42rw Beirdo, hey channel bully!
20:42rw lol
20:42nicedreams Beirdo, i have many pms coming in...sry
20:42rw Beirdo, that way you will not get a 200k job
20:42rw j/k
20:42Beirdo I don't want a job that freeloads off Isaac and others' fine work
20:42nicedreams Mellon Research is funding this project
20:43nicedreams #1 penny stock in the world
20:43nicedreams Beirdo, damn...your dumb man.... i would hire the people that made it if they replied to my emails
20:43nicedreams that's why i'm in this room now
20:43nicedreams so i can give credit and see if they want to continue this on a much larger scale
20:44nicedreams I even tried to email Justin Frankle
20:44Torq Mellon research, hey I heard of them, its printed on the back of the pr0n dvd i bought the other day.
20:44rw nicedreams, he and Chutt are saying that this happens every week
20:44nicedreams lol
20:44Torq who the dickens is justin frankle?
20:44shadash nicedreams: tact is a wonderful thing
20:44Chutt i get a couple offers every week, honestly
20:44nicedreams wow
20:45nicedreams well...i'm determined and have contact with capcom for trying to release some roms legally
20:45nicedreams for the mame part
20:45nicedreams and for puchasing tickets with a remote from users' tvs
20:45Chutt and zap2it for licensing their data?
20:45Torq yo. you there. are you in the real world?
20:46Chutt and the mpeg4la for licensing codecs?
20:46Chutt and thompson for mp3?
20:46nicedreams do any large companies get rich and famous without a dream?
20:46Chutt apple for aac?
20:46nicedreams i'll license or create everything we need if i have to
20:46nicedreams i'm determined
20:46Torq small companies yes, large companies no.
20:46nicedreams lol
20:46Chutt it's a hell of a lot more expensive than most people think, especially if you want the fun capabilities.
20:47nicedreams if your interested email me at
20:47nicedreams or
20:47nicedreams the site is way off from this project since we started doing linux business solutions to make money at first
20:47rw nicedreams, what resources you have to do it?
20:47nicedreams then found this venture capitalist and now we are doing nothing but this the past we weeks
20:48Beirdo how many state lotteries have you won this year?
20:48nicedreams funding, lawers, and all of mellon researches resources i need
20:48Torq darn, no pics of people on that site. I was trying to find a pic.
20:48nicedreams the prototype we are making now uses hardware
20:48nicedreams I'm 25 and not a kid so i'm serious about this
20:49Torq wheres your pic please?
20:49rw nicedreams, so you still going to fight for an angel?
20:49nicedreams ?
20:49Beirdo you realize that all the code will be GPL...
20:49Torq I want to print it off and play darts with it.
20:49Chutt beirdo, apparently, he's not really going to use myth :p
20:49rw nicedreams, capital, money, investment
20:49Beirdo I guess not...
20:50nicedreams it's all good if you don't want to make a dream a reality with me
20:50nicedreams you'll just have to watch it happen then
20:50Beirdo heh. Have fun lawsuits
20:50Torq I'll go to bed and make my dream a reality now.
20:51rw nicedreams, the problem is: You want to hire someone without resources? Everybody here are well employed, why would they change?
20:52Torq I'm looking for a new job
20:52Torq send me a 200K cheque.
20:52nicedreams contacts are good
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20:52rw nicedreams, yeah it is. But shows that you aren't prepared to make it happen.
20:53nicedreams i'm prepared, i'm just getting rushed to do this
20:53rw nicedreams, not being rude, just being real.
20:53nicedreams i understand
20:54rw nicedreams, so if you would like to do something like this, my advice is, meet who already tried and failed. Meet who are on the top and why are you going to beat them? enough work for a long time.
20:54Torq is an interesting site
20:54shadash I thought so as well
20:55GreyFoxx nHehe Me too. I was thinking those owuld make nifty frontends
20:55rw yeah it's awesome, but has nothing to do with his company, as he said.
20:55nicedreams my company will own the technology we make and who ever does this with us
20:56nicedreams i want this to be as fair as possible
20:56Beirdo then you aren't going to be using Myth
20:56nicedreams and if we use myth, then we'll release the source and sell it in best buy
20:56GreyFoxx nicedreams: So you are planning to write something from Scratch ?
20:56Chutt well, if you use myth, i and a whole bunch of other people own it :p
20:56Beirdo you won't be owning Myth :)
20:56GreyFoxx nicedreams: ahh
20:56nicedreams i understand that
20:56nicedreams i'm not trying to own myth
20:56rw nicedreams, how cheap are you going to buy do you have a contract yet?
20:56nicedreams myth great software
20:56nicedreams not buying allwell
20:57nicedreams they make mobo's and parts for HP
20:57Torq you could sell a box with myth, but you must checkin all the code to cvs
20:57nicedreams and we are using them for a few prototypes
20:57nicedreams to see how the hardware works with the software
20:57nicedreams I'm not the expert on the GPL and programing side... my business partner is
20:57Beirdo Torq: I don't think that's your place to determine :)
20:57nicedreams he teaches linux in collage and has been for like 8 yhears
20:57nicedreams years
20:58Torq Beirdo: thats what the license says... sheesh
20:58Beirdo no it doesn't
20:58nicedreams i'm like the dreamer and pusher and been doing a very very good job at it
20:58Torq GPL?
20:58nicedreams i got us the funding and legal connections
20:58Beirdo it doesn't say he must check into the project
20:58GreyFoxx I wonder how much some of those STB boxes go for.... they would make really nice frontends
20:58nicedreams now i have to get the team together to do this
20:58Torq he must provide source...
20:58Beirdo it says he needs to supply source.
20:58rw don't forget the trolltech license.
20:58Torq Beirdo: now youre being anal.
20:58nicedreams Beirdo, why are you hating so much?
20:59Beirdo I'm not hating, I'm being realistic
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20:59nicedreams i have a dream to revolutionize home entertainment and i'm shooting for that goal
20:59nicedreams people said you couldn't fly and now we can
21:00nicedreams you can't go to the moon and we have
21:00rw Beirdo, you are wrong.
21:00GreyFoxx nicedreams: It's good to have adream, good luck with it (seriously)
21:00rw Beirdo, tivo is opensource. Have you seen the source, yet?
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21:00nicedreams thx
21:00nicedreams tivo is open source?
21:00nicedreams i have to look into that then
21:00Beirdo rw: I don't care about Tivo, and it's not open source
21:00cmorgan all of tivo's kernel modifications are open source
21:01Chutt no drivers or app
21:01cmorgan most of their stuff is modules though, which isn't
21:01nicedreams anyways... if your interested, any of the creators or anyone that wants to try to do this please contact me and i'll call you or fly you in if i have to
21:01nicedreams i'm based out of Phoenix, AZ
21:01nicedreams and i'll do contacts and stocks and whatever
21:01GreyFoxx Man , I so need to get pricing on these boxes
21:01nicedreams once the site and prototype is done, mellon research is taking us IPO on the market
21:01rw Beirdo, see
21:01nicedreams that's why i'm stressing
21:01rw Beirdo, everything is open source based
21:02nicedreams and i want to give credit to the people that have done this work and offering a future
21:02rw also, it announced a while back that would open the technology for developers.
21:02nicedreams rw and chutt, please consider it
21:02nicedreams i have many other idea's to bring linux to the open for everyone to know about and not just us pc geeks
21:03nicedreams of course since MS is hating on linux so much now
21:03nicedreams they just made it to where all their new software won't work with wine anymore
21:03nicedreams -
21:04Captain_Murdo| don't they do that every new release.
21:04nicedreams the larger things are the modules that we want to create to connect to a central server we have made that include movie tickets, stocks, streaming movies and music, and more
21:05Chutt c_m, yeah
21:05Captain_Murdo| :)
21:06shadash nicedreams: you're only problem is that you're talking about closed source "modules" with a bunch of people that have worked really hard to create an open source project. That's a hard sell
21:06Chutt yup
21:07Chutt you'd get a better reception if you were talking about actually contributing back to the project.
21:07nicedreams true... i'm flexable on what i have to do to make this work
21:07Chutt but it doesn't sound like you want to do that very much.
21:07nicedreams chutt, i want to contribute, that's why i'm here and not just doing this and trying make a buck without you guys
21:08nicedreams that's why i'm offering some contract work or whatever so you can get paid for your awsome work
21:08nicedreams that's why i'm here
21:08Chutt but it'd be contract work that wouldn't be applicable to myth, though, right?
21:08nicedreams mythtv is awsome software and would like to get whoever is creating it a chance to put it in living rooms across america and the world
21:08nicedreams if that's how it works, then yet
21:08nicedreams yes
21:09nicedreams i'm not a business major and i'm learning how this work, and the team that is supporting me handles that
21:12nicedreams there are many options if your interested, email me pls
21:12shadash nicedreams: if you can float $$$ to developers for work that you'd like done + they are in agreement with what you are looking to do + you allow code to be released via GPL back into Myth you'd probably get some interested parties
21:12nicedreams i never set anything into stone
21:12nicedreams that sounds good... i'm all for that
21:12rw true... people already work for free. Why not work for money :)
21:12nicedreams i'm not the man with the money. the company funding us would do that
21:13nicedreams that's exactly what i'm saying
21:13nicedreams rw
21:13rw nicedreams, and this company is?
21:13nicedreams and then this will be an appliance in living rooms across everywhere
21:13nicedreams mellon research
21:14rw do they have money?
21:14nicedreams ?
21:14nicedreams they are #1 penny stock in the world
21:14rw to invest
21:14nicedreams adventure capitalist
21:14nicedreams he's worth 50mil
21:14nicedreams large firm
21:14rw ok, but do you already have a contract with them?
21:15nicedreams yea
21:15nicedreams i make 5k a month doing all their IT work for all his new project plus huge bonuses
21:15rw do you have a business plan?
21:15rw nicedreams, why you didn't say it erlier?
21:15nicedreams like he is producing streaming online media audio/video to revolutionize online tv
21:15nicedreams business plan yes
21:15nicedreams contacts they say i can't say everything = yes
21:15rw can i see it?
21:16Chutt heh
21:16nicedreams you have to talk to mellon to see the full plan since you have to sign a confidenal document to view it
21:16nicedreams or i'd have to get you to sign it
21:16rw oh yeah, sure :) just checking lol
21:16nicedreams or fly you in to see it
21:16nicedreams i can't just say here....steal my idea's
21:17Chutt honestly, i doubt it's something that no one's thought of before
21:17rw nicedreams, ok, so you have the money. What do you do?
21:17nicedreams and again...i'm hear to offer and give back to the community...
21:17nicedreams i could of just bended the law with their lawers and sold this anyways and said fuck you all
21:17nicedreams but i'm not
21:17NightMonkey whoah
21:17nicedreams sry for language
21:18rw Chutt, someone pays you for working in mythtv? if not, who cares, you will recieve your money.
21:18Chutt nope, i do it all for fun
21:18Chutt there's no money in a commercial pvr
21:18Chutt ie, see tivo.
21:18NightMonkey Gotta watch those NDAs...
21:18nicedreams chutt, but i haven't said anything about the aditions that myth doesn't do
21:19nicedreams does myth let you purchase movie tickets
21:19rw Chutt, that's not your problem. You will keep working and improving it. Just make a good contract that will keep things the way you like, and wait the money arrives.
21:19nicedreams does myth let you purchase mp3s online and store them in a database
21:19Chutt i don't really see that meaning anything
21:19nicedreams it's a risk
21:19rw i see. iTunes is making fortune.
21:19nicedreams business is a risk
21:19nicedreams do you think bill gates made money sitting on his ass
21:20Chutt you're not bill gates :p
21:20nicedreams i can be
21:20nicedreams and we could be too
21:20Beirdo and neither is your backer
21:20nicedreams the ikea guy is richer and he sells furnature
21:20Beirdo hate to say it but $50M isn't a "huge" venture capitalist
21:20nicedreams Beirdo, it's called investing
21:20nicedreams so
21:20cmorgan ha
21:20nicedreams do you think he going to just give you a few million off the back
21:21cmorgan $50M isn't a lot of money?
21:21nicedreams we or whoever is going this has to make this work, and if it does, that's where the money comes in
21:21nicedreams not from his company
21:21nicedreams but from the stock once we go IPO
21:21Beirdo cmorgan: in the world of venture capitalism, it's tiny
21:22nicedreams we go IPO once the site and prototype is done
21:22cmorgan hardly
21:22cmorgan thats 2nd or 3rd round in terms of venture capital
21:22nicedreams that's where the max funding is going to come from
21:22cmorgan thats for a pretty developed startup
21:22nicedreams and he gets people to buy stock
21:22nicedreams and he'll get many people to buy our stock
21:22nicedreams and then we are money to produce and pay for whatever
21:23cmorgan you don't get $50M unless you have a serious team and a great business plan
21:23Beirdo amen
21:23dhofstra tivo deathwatch article
21:23mikegrb IPO is multiple years down the line
21:23mikegrb is tivo even public yet?
21:23Chutt it's been public for a long time
21:23mikegrb and you can't build such a business plan around a pvr
21:23mikegrb ahh
21:23mikegrb well then gold stars for Chutt
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21:24Beirdo tivo went public during the .com boom, I think
21:25Chutt they're not a penny stock, though :p
21:25nicedreams chutt, i'd love to work with you on this since you started mythtv and all and would like to bring this further then just an open source project for computer experts
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21:25Chutt here's my standard answer: i have a good, stable job. it would take a considerable amount of money, up front, to make me consider something else. it'd take more to work for a startup.
21:26Beirdo I second that motion
21:26nicedreams chutt, i'd do contract with you so you don't have to risk a job or anything like that
21:26Chutt only way i'd contract is if it were on myth completely.
21:26dhofstra heh, add that to the topic, and it could save you from answering it every month or so
21:27nicedreams chutt, just for making modules that myth doesn't do with these other companies like for example
21:27Chutt and i own all my code, and i decide what to do.
21:27nicedreams can we talk about this in formal email or voice sometime?
21:27Chutt sure
21:27nicedreams can you pm me your email?
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21:27Chutt you've got my email :p
21:28nicedreams the issac one from the site right?
21:28nicedreams you saw my email already...
21:28nicedreams lol
21:28nicedreams :0
21:28nicedreams i'll stay in contact with you. it's easier to chat other than here
21:28Chutt sure
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21:28Chutt send me some more info, if you'd like.
21:29nicedreams i sure will
21:29Chutt and it's "Isaac'.
21:29nicedreams :)
21:29Chutt i don't really appreciate people misspelling my name.
21:29nicedreams sry
21:29NightMonkey Chutt: IANAL, but I grew up around them...I'm sure you know - get it all in writing... verbal agreements are worth as much as the paper they're printed on ;)
21:29Captain_Murdo| need enough upfront money to retire off of when the thing goes bust.
21:29Chutt heh
21:30nicedreams i really must go though and make it to my kids concert
21:30nicedreams bye
21:30rw nicedreams, bye bye
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21:31rw Chutt, i don't think you really need to get out of your current job. You already hack in myth and work. The diference is that you going to have two salaries.
21:32Beirdo rw: don't confuse pipedreams with reality :)
21:32Chutt possibly
21:33rkulagow_ did i miss something interesting?
21:33rw Beirdo, if he is not lieing he has a good investor.
21:33Captain_Murdo| they better save some of that money for when they get sued by the *AA for skipping commercials. :)
21:33Chutt random guy wanting to make a commercial version of myth
21:33rkulagow_ yawn
21:33Beirdo a "good investor" is worthless.
21:33rkulagow_ has the check bounced?
21:33Beirdo venture capitalists back out all the time
21:34rw Beirdo, money open many doors...
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21:34Beirdo and they often have very unreasonable expectations due to the yes-men fronting the project.
21:34NightMonkey rw: And, with lawyers, it can close doors, too...
21:34Beirdo been there, done that
21:34rkulagow_ i think cringely just had an article that said that there's huge piles of money that the VCs are sitting on that they _have_ to spend soon, or they have to give it back to the investors
21:36rw Beirdo, maybe that's true, but considering that's not Chutt's and other developers problem, it will only be good, if it fail or not, he will stay in his stable job, having two salaries, still hacking myth the way he likes. What's wrong with that? If fails go back to one salary. Looks simple to me.
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21:37Beirdo it is the problem of anyone who gets involved, there can be potential liability involved
21:38Beirdo especially for Chutt if someone sues due to MythTV
21:38cmorgan what would they sue for?
21:38Beirdo money
21:38Beirdo :)
21:38Beirdo commercial skipping, etc
21:38cmorgan "your honor, i'm suing because of money." ?
21:38Beirdo there's plenty of things that the "industry" won't like
21:38cmorgan tivo already exists
21:38rw Beirdo, that's a company problem, not his...
21:39cmorgan they aren't suing them over commercials
21:39mikegrb they don't skip commercials
21:39mikegrb automagically
21:39Beirdo dvd ripping...
21:39NightMonkey Replay got sued....
21:39shadash use DD
21:39mikegrb they had to take the 30 sec skip out even
21:39rw btw this resource can be simply removed.
21:39Beirdo and it wouldn't be a "company problem" if they sued directly
21:40cmorgan they would sue chutt for skipping his own commercials?
21:40cmorgan haha
21:40Beirdo don't underestimate the damage that lawsuits can challenge
21:40rw haha
21:40Beirdo create rather
21:40NightMonkey As soon as there is big money behind the project, it becomes a juicy target for corporate lawyers
21:40cmorgan seriously though, i'd be surprised if they could get a commercial skipping suit into court
21:40Beirdo no, for having written software that helps facilitate it, etc.
21:40Beirdo NightMonkey has it on the head
21:41NightMonkey Right now, they could sue you, win, and, maybe get a car out of it... Can't get blood from a stone...
21:41Beirdo if there's money for them to pillage, they may well take interest
21:41cmorgan the answer is to push forward quicker
21:41mikegrb cmorgan: people have been sued for commercial skipping
21:41cmorgan not to worry about what might happen
21:41cmorgan mikegrb: who?
21:41rw Beirdo, he copies it and modify it. So if you can have it, you can do whatever you want. That's the law.
21:41mikegrb cmorgan: replay tv
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21:41mikegrb cmorgan: and tivo was convinced to remove the 30 sec skip button under threat of litigation
21:42cmorgan mikegrb: apparently they decided to drop it just to get rid of the suit
21:42mikegrb tivo
21:42mikegrb replay was sued
21:42cmorgan i'm trying to find out what happened to that case
21:43mikegrb it doesn't matter what the end result was other then it cost replay much money in legal fees
21:43NightMonkey Beware of the bored corporate lawyers... best to stay out of their radar...
21:44cmorgan i guess we just need some tough and well funded people to stand up for that stuff
21:44mikegrb well funded is the key
21:44mikegrb and there is nobody with enough funding
21:45Beirdo the EFF would be there, I'm sure, but funding only goes so far
21:45cmorgan i think people would be pretty pissed about it
21:45shadash a retired IP lawyer that believes in principals is what you need. They have nothing better to do then be a thorn in someones side. ;-)
21:46NightMonkey Eben Moglen...
21:46cmorgan like when tivo brings up the idea of showing ads when you are skipping through commercials. people were pissed
21:46cmorgan whats happening with the broadcast flag?
21:46cmorgan i hope that crap doesn't go through
21:47mikegrb it is
21:47mikegrb and has
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21:47Beirdo now we can only try for an eventual reversal
21:47mikegrb Beirdo: <4
21:48mikegrb Beirdo: that is even better then <3
21:48Beirdo heh :)
21:48cmorgan it hasn't gone into effect yet though
21:48mikegrb so?
21:48mikegrb it will
21:49mikegrb it has a start date
21:49cmorgan it won't if its dropped before then
21:49shadash I talked to a friend of mine that does IP law about it. He said that although that law sux. There's nothing he could do about it. (Too many showbiz ties in his firm)
21:49mikegrb it won't be dropped
21:49mikegrb it is silly to think otherwise
21:49cmorgan as people find out that they can't record stuff they won't be happy
21:49mikegrb it is already passed
21:50mikegrb so
21:50shadash He would have been awesome his Thesis paper was on the microsoft/netscape case
21:50mikegrb people aren't happy about a lot of stuff, it doesn't change it
21:51cmorgan the government works for us
21:51cmorgan at least we can bitch so we have a chance of having it work like that
21:52NightMonkey I have a feeling that you-all should maybe chat with Eben Moglen soon - he's creating a, as he says, a "general counsel's office for the entire movement" -
21:52cmorgan i should donate some money to the eff
21:52NightMonkey Just FYI.
21:53cmorgan if you donate 100 bucks you get a tshirt
21:53NightMonkey cmorgan: I give to the EFF, but I think the Center for Democracy and Technology is more "up" on the issues:
21:55cmorgan NightMonkey: i'll check it out. people are so rabid about giving to places that want to take our rights away, like the christian coalition, i feel obligated to fight the madness
21:57NightMonkey cmorgan: I hear ya. More of those people should give money to the Flat Earth Society. They don't lobby nearly so much... ;)
21:57cmorgan NightMonkey: i like what cdt has to say. i haven't heard of them before
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21:57NightMonkey cmorgan: It's funny. Not many people have heard of them - that's their major problem, I think. The EFF does a great marketing job.
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21:58cmorgan NightMonkey: they should get their reps to talk on shows like the connection on npr
21:58NightMonkey cmorgan: But, in my opinion, the EFF is more "reactive", and often only comes into an issue when the last vote is nearing completion...
21:59NightMonkey cmorgan: I guess it depends on what you want your donation money to go to - pundits on NPR, or lobbyists and analysts telling you what's going on as it happens.
21:59NightMonkey cmorgan: But, like I said, I give to both...
22:00NightMonkey Ack, I think this is way OT for this room - sorry folks.
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22:00m0tion rooms are on AOL, irc has channels =)
22:00NightMonkey doh!
22:00cmorgan NightMonkey: i'm just saying that there are plenty of shows that want to talk to people about the war between the public and corporate interests
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22:01NightMonkey cmorgan: CDT may have folks who chat on shows, too. I'm not an avid NPR listener.
22:01cmorgan NightMonkey: its a battle that most people don't even realize is going on today, with copyrights and the like
22:01cmorgan NightMonkey: thanks for pointing them out
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22:02NightMonkey cmorgan: I think that's always how it is. As I remember from my history, 1/3 of the people liked the French Revolution, 1/3 hated it, and 1/3 could care less. It's the 1/3 that could care less that decided the outcome.
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22:02NightMonkey cmorgan: No problem!
22:02m0tion chutt: i like that equipment rack in your theater, where'd you get it?
22:04Beirdo NightMonkey: don't forget the US elections, where just over 30% voted for Bush, just under 30% voted for Kerry, and about 40% didn't vote at all
22:04NightMonkey Wow, I think I greatly oversimplified the French Revolution. Sorry, France.
22:04NightMonkey Beirdo: Yep. Most people see politics as something that "other people do" in "other places".
22:05NightMonkey Beirdo: At least in the US.
22:05Beirdo and many other places
22:05Beirdo ah well
22:05gr8nash-home | yep.. of course the third that loses.. are always sure they are teh "right" third
22:05NightMonkey Beirdo: Hey, I don't blame them - most people need to focus on getting food on the table, kids into college, etc.
22:06Beirdo anyways... way off topic. maybe -users would be better :)
22:06NightMonkey Ack - sorry for the noise.
22:06Beirdo yeah, we went on tangents. naughty us.
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23:11Gorbulas|iBoo| Does anybody know how to improve the performance of mythfrontend over a wireless network?
23:12Captain_Murdo| try #mythtv-users, they might have some ideas.
23:12Gorbulas|iBoo| I just did
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23:17* Beirdo mumbles
23:23Gorbulas|iBoo| there isn't a way to increase the buffer length or something?
23:24Chutt thanks for paying attention to the topic
23:24mikegrb you are in the wrong channel
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23:54Captain_Murdo| Beirdo, so what was the deal with that file that exploded? did you say it _was_ rtjpeg?
23:54Beirdo yeah it was
23:55Captain_Murdo| and it did explode?
23:55Captain_Murdo| was it still playable?
---Logclosed Fri Feb 18 00:00:26 2005