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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2005-02-28

---Logopened Mon Feb 28 00:00:50 2005
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01:55Beirdo dopester: WTF?
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02:21dopester haha
02:21dopester i fell asleep on the couch and apparently hit the \ key a bunch
02:21dopester or my cat walked on my lapyop
02:23Beirdo hehehhe
02:23Beirdo been there, done that
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07:53trigx300 hi im using ubuntu linux (debian based) is it possible to config a boot loader to boot directly to myth
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08:03_GeckoFiend mornin
08:03Chutt hey
08:13trigx300 hi im using ubuntu linux (debian based) is it possible to config a boot loader to boot directly to myth
08:15Chutt read the topic.
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08:20_GeckoFiend after switching crap around at home my dev box is doing thermal shutdowns every few minutes. :/ The CPU heat sink is cool, so either it's not transfering heat from the CPU, or there's a bad sensor someplace.
08:21_GeckoFiend so till I get it figured out, I'll not have any scrollback buffer at home
08:22Chutt heh
08:24_GeckoFiend I need to replace the mobo anyway so I can get the full 2ghz out of that AMB mobile that's in it
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08:26_GeckoFiend chutt: any particular version of those fanless 6600's you like?
08:28_GeckoFiend all the ones I find seem to have fans
08:28Chutt heh
08:28Chutt i don't know of any without a fan yet :(
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08:29_GeckoFiend ahhh I thought I'd seen you say something about there being a nice 6600 without a fan. That explains why I can't find one
08:35dopester i got one with a fan thats pretty quiet
08:36dopester was 113 on newegg can't remember who made it right now
08:39dopester chutt: you got a few?
08:39Chutt kinda
08:41dopester ok for digital tv i need to add another state to the tv_play states.. something along the lines of "tuned but no data yet" that will leave the player stopped.. you see any issues with this concept?
08:41Chutt i'd rather the player just dealt with no data better
08:41dopester the player would go into that state after a digital tv station gets a lock but no data is flowing yet, (moving a dish)
08:41dopester well how can it know without some messages?
08:42Chutt it can't know that it's not getting data?
08:42dopester ive only really thought the only way to do it was have hte recorder/siparser send messages to the player telling it whats going on
08:42dopester for example a brief signal loss on atsc usually makes the frontend exit livetv if its too close to the end
08:43Chutt why can't the frontend just deal with that?
08:43dopester well it can but can it be done without the backend telling it whats going on?
08:43Chutt why not?
08:43Chutt settop box handles it
08:44dopester set top box isn't blind to the recording process
08:44Chutt err, it's told when there's signal loss?
08:44dopester as far as i can tell the frontend always expects data from the backend once it gets a tuning success
08:44Chutt so fix that.
08:45Chutt that's better than sending messages around
08:45dopester how can i have the backend let the frontend know without a message / new state?
08:45Chutt why does it need to let the frontend know?
08:45Chutt i really don't understand
08:45dopester so it can stop the player while tuning, or pop an osd message saying "station off air"
08:45Chutt why can't you simply fix the frontend to deal with the no data situation better?
08:46dopester well it gives the end user no insight as to why its taking so long for starters
08:46dopester seems here in the states when an atsc virtual channel goes off the air all the si tables point to it being on the air
08:46Chutt so a satellite settop box receives signals whenever there's a data dropout, telling it that there's a data dropout?
08:46dopester you go to tune to the pids and just endup with no data
08:46Chutt that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
08:47dopester well the player and input process is more closely related.. no buffer inbetween, etc..
08:47dopester my stbs all say "signal loss" or "bad tuning" or "moving dish"
08:47dopester depending on the situation
08:47Chutt what about ota broadcasts?
08:47Chutt they send messages informing that there were packets dropped?
08:47Chutt that the signal died?
08:48dopester to the end user yes
08:48Chutt fix the frontend, don't add stuff that's not needed.
08:48Chutt it shouldn't be hard.
08:48dopester but how can the frontend know what to tell the user is hapening?
08:48dopester without a message that is..
08:49Chutt if it doesn't get any data, it puts up a message 'no data from backend'
08:49Chutt and allows the user to tune.
08:49Chutt quite simple.
08:50dopester i see how thats 1 way of doing it, but how will the frontend know to wait longer (say 45 seconds) when someone is moving a dish motor? that is a horribly long default timeout
08:50Chutt that's a special case.
08:50dopester can you do that without a message?
08:50Chutt you're fixing the symptoms, not the problem (ie, frontend hangs when the backend doesn't send data).
08:50Chutt as i said, that's a special case
08:51Chutt the backend can send a message saying that to increase the timeout.
08:51dopester its really no different than tuning to a station off the air jsut a longer timeout
08:51Chutt sure it is
08:51Chutt if the station's off the air, you're not going to get any data, unless you wait for it to come back on
08:51dopester how? the frontend asked to tune..
08:51dopester in a general sense the frontend shoudl know "hang on" or "give up"
08:51Chutt if the backend _knows_ it's going to be taking longer
08:51Chutt geez
08:52Chutt read what i'm writing, for once.
08:52Chutt fix the problem.
08:52Chutt the frontend hangs when it gets no data.
08:52Chutt that's a _frontend only_ problem.
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08:52Chutt once that's fixed, special cases can be added to make things even better.
08:53Chutt if you just add some messages from the backend, the frontend will _still_ hang if it stops receiving data
08:53Chutt and the bug's not fixed.
08:53dopester well i was just going to bypass the simple fix, but it can be done in phases
08:53Chutt right, you're trying to do it ass backwards.
08:54Chutt you fix bugs first, you don't work around them first.
08:54dopester it wasn't working around them.. you would have ot handle the different possible failures each a tad different, but i see what your getting at
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10:38pete_ When I am watching LiveTV, if I hit the record button, it says 'Recording ""', and there are quite the mass of database errors. Anyohw know if there is a patch for this?
10:38Chutt nope.
10:39pete_ I have unknown programs and such set to "unknown" in the config
10:39pete_ from what I grasp, it should use "unknown" instead of ""
10:39Tommck when I am watching LiveTV and I'm behind (paused for a while) and then I hit the record button, it doesn't take the existing buffer... any patch for that? :)
10:39Chutt nope.
10:39Tommck lol
10:40pete_ Chutt : are people aware of this bug? should I report it on some list?
10:40pete_ no one in #mythtv-users seems to know of it
10:40Chutt nope.
10:40Tommck I am thinking about writing a plug-in to play DVDs from disk (not ripped or transcoded... just backed up)... anyone else find this useful to them?
10:41Chutt why would that be a plugin?
10:41Chutt and not part of mythvideo?
10:41Tommck Chutt - not sure
10:41Tommck Chutt - it could be a part of that... that was my original idea... just would have to figure out how to integrate it...
10:41GreyFoxx I've always wondered by MythDVD and Mythvideo weren't combined :)
10:42GreyFoxx with the added ability to playback from disk :)
10:42Tommck MythVideo uses file names... the DVDs would be whole directories
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10:42pete_ Chutt: so, you are saying that one one is aware of this bug, but that I should not report it to anyone.. because no one cares about bugs in mythtv? Doesn't seem to be the case...
10:42Chutt you shouldn't report it like that, is what i'm saying
10:42Tommck pete - I think the second "nope" was for me
10:43Chutt 'quite a mass of database errors' is utterly useless.
10:43Tommck Chutt - at least he said "database" :)
10:43Tommck better than "it doesn't work" :)
10:43pete_ heh.. ok then, I'll post a 40 line bug report here, and say "anyone heard of this?"
10:44pete_ otherwise, chutt becomes snippy
10:44Chutt why would it be 40 lines?
10:44shodan is there someone actually working on mythgame ? I got tired of it's lack of support for the emulators I want to I made a bunch of cute icons and a xml file to fit in place of mythgame and using helper bash script and advancemenu I'm getting something pretty good , but while I'm at it , I could give a hand to whoever is working with mythgame ( )
10:44Chutt shodan, nope, no one's doing anything with it.
10:45pete_ Chutt : so you can see the database errors. If you don't grok what's happening from its 'Recording ""' and database errors, then you want a lot more detail
10:45GreyFoxx shodan: That looks nifty
10:45kvandivo and copyright infringing
10:45Chutt pete, well, how can i know what's broken without seeing one of the actual errors?
10:45Tommck hehe.. yeah..
10:45Chutt notice i said 'one'
10:45Chutt meaning 'the first one'
10:46pete_ Chutt : I think the "" value + database errors are a good clue.. but I'll paste one line here
10:46Chutt if they're a good clue, why don't you go fix it, then?
10:46Tommck pete - at worst, post the errors at pastebin
10:46shodan kvandivo, you can't respect copyright in this world , unless you live in a cave with no electricity
10:46Tommck shodan - huh?
10:46Chutt shodan, do you respect my copyright on mythtv?
10:46pete_ Chutt : there is a difference between being able to do database work, and coding in C
10:46Chutt pete, no, not really.
10:47pete_ Chutt : yes, yes really
10:47Tommck Chutt - I think there is :)
10:47Chutt if you can't fix the problem, then how do you know if it's a good clue or not?
10:47Tommck Chutt - I've met lotsa people I would trust to write a query that I wouldn't let near gcc :)
10:47shodan Chutt, yes , what I mean is that it is near impossible to not infrige on someone's copyright at some point ,even if one is careful about it
10:48Tommck shodan - I think that's a silly way to look at it
10:48Tommck I haven't infringed on copyrights, ever...
10:48shodan Tommck, yes but that's because the law is silly
10:48shodan Tommck, don't be so sure
10:48* Tommck puts his tinfoil hat on
10:49Tommck shodan - being a little dramatic, aren't you?
10:49pete_ Chutt : you're just being silly, for no apparent reason. Did I hurt your easily bruised ego? If so, I'm sorry. All I intended to do what come in and report a bug. You've been rude during the entire process. Not entirely sure why, as I came in quite politely
10:49shodan what you don't leave it on all the time ! ;)
10:49Chutt bugs without information annoy me.
10:49shodan Tommck, it's kvandivo's fault ;)
10:49pete_ Chutt : I'm right HERE chutt. I can PROVIDE more information.
10:50Tommck pete - calm down... you'll get nowhere by getting upset.
10:50pete_ Chutt : I'm not gonig to go on for half a dozen lines of text, only to find out that perhaps no one is even in the channel
10:50Chutt you haven't yet, so, i don't think you will.
10:50Tommck remember that this is a text-only communications medium... emotions don't convey well
10:50Chutt people that say that something's easy to fix when they can't do it themselves are dumb, really.
10:50pete_ Chutt : I've spent the last 10 minutes responding to comments just like your last one ;)
10:50Chutt really?
10:50Chutt you type that slowly?
10:50Chutt <shrug>
10:51pete_ heh, you're obviously a jackass ;)
10:51Chutt yup
10:51pete_ enough time wasted
10:51Tommck FFS both of you quiet down :)
10:51pete_ hopefully someone of value will appear here
10:51Chutt pete, i'm the only one who's going to be able to fix your problem.
10:51Tommck just get it over with and whip em out and compare.. ok? Just warn me... I don't want to see it
10:51pete_ are you sure you won't have your hands up your ass instead?
10:51Chutt if you want it fixed, provide actual information
10:51Chutt if you don't, don't
10:52Chutt it's quite simple.
10:52pete_ I'd be happy to, but I won't sit idly by and be insulted and treated poorly
10:52Chutt when did i insult you?
10:52GreyFoxx pete_: How about tis. Rather than try to "win" this current conversation, do up a comprehensive bug report (try to follow the guidlines in the docs as much as possible) and then email it to the mythtv-dev userslist :)
10:52Chutt or treat you poorly?
10:52Tommck GreyFoxx - good idea..
10:52Tommck then we don't have to read this pissing contest :)
10:53pete_ geez guys, I don't see this as a pissing contest, or anyting to "win".. it's just a case of someone slapping me in the face, and me responding
10:53Chutt no one on the lists will fix the issue, either, aside from me
10:53Chutt how the fuck did i slap you in the face?
10:53pete_ see, listen to the fuckwit
10:53Chutt i wrote the code in question
10:53* kvandivo prepares for someone to op themselves.
10:53Chutt i'm probably the only one whose ever looked at it
10:53Tommck JESUS CHRIST... both of you stop insulting each other
10:53pete_ I don't care what you wrote
10:53Chutt i _think_ that makes me the best one to fix the problem
10:53Tommck kvandivo - yeah... I've been waiting for a boot
10:54Chutt how the fuck am i insulting him?
10:54pete_ I don't care if you wrote this entire project from the start, I just don't like to be treated like crap
10:54Chutt how am i treating you like crap?
10:54Tommck Chutt- good point... Pete - stop insulting him
10:54Chutt i really don't understand
10:54shodan troll alert!
10:54Tommck pete - think of it from his perspective... people come in here _constantly_ saying "this is broken"... he wants a full-on bug report...
10:54pete_ ah, so easy. I'm a troll.. just because I respond to aggressive and rude behaviour
10:55Tommck pete - he was probably nice about it the first hundred times... but it gets old... ever work at a help desk?
10:55Chutt what was rude?
10:55pete_ Chutt : scroll back!
10:55Chutt saying 'if you can't fix the problem, then how do you know what's relavant?'?
10:55Chutt was that rude?
10:55Chutt was saying that your initial 'report' was utterly useless rude?
10:56pete_ Chutt : I can say to you "that's being rude" or "you're a fucking rude sack of shit!" ... one of them is a polite way to say soemthing, and another is quite rude
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10:56pete_ my initial report was not a report... if was a short blurb to see if the problem had been reported
10:56Chutt seriously, what was rude or insulting about either of those?
10:56Chutt ok, so i guess saying 'no' was rude?
10:56shodan pete , I don't know if anyone was rude to you , but you have to understand that no one owes you anything as far as mythtv is concerned , being treated rudely is usually what you should expect when asking help for free anyway , or more likely that you will get ignored
10:57pete_ shodan : no! That's utterly and totally incorrect. You should _never_ epxect to be treated rudely!
10:57Chutt how did i treat you rudely?
10:57Tommck shodan - gotta agree with that statement
10:58Chutt what did i say that was rude?
10:58Tommck Chutt - you were smug... that's as close as I can come to describe it. NOTHING as bad as what Pete has said ("fuckwit", "jackass", etc.)
10:58Chutt smug?
10:58Chutt about what?
10:58pete_ Tommck : really? that if you are helpful to people, you should treat them rudely when you assist them? or that, perhaps, you should expect to be treated rudely whenever you walk up to someone and ask for help
10:58Chutt do you even know what 'smug' means?
10:58Tommck Chutt - well... very matter-of-fact..
10:58shodan pete_, maybe not at wallmart or mcdonalds , but if you notice , no one said "how may I help you" with a smile when you entered
10:58Chutt see, that's being rude
10:58Tommck Chutt - I'm not trying to insult...
10:59GreyFoxx shodan: hehe
10:59Chutt i am =)
10:59Chutt you're sounding like an idiot
10:59Chutt pete, please answer one of my last 4 or 5 questions.
10:59Tommck Chutt - seriously.. I'm on your side on this one.. was just giving a different perspective :)
10:59* GreyFoxx does a whois on pete_ and suddenly understands....
10:59pete_ shodan : I am not complaining about a lack of smile, heh
11:00Tommck here's some! :) :) :) :) :)
11:00* GreyFoxx goes back to work having now been amused
11:00Tommck [Rodney King] Can't we all just get along? [/Rodney King]
11:00shodan "Did I do anything wrong today or has the world always been like this and I've been too wrapped up in myself to notice"
11:01pete_ shodan : well, maybe Chutt will find out the answer to that one day
11:01Chutt oh well, guess i was right.
11:02Chutt <shrug>
11:02Chutt pete, enjoy your bug.
11:02Tommck Pete - you _continue_ to insult him.. are you as dumb as you sound?
11:02Tommck He really is the person that would fix what you're talking about... swallow some pride and play nice
11:02Tommck or go install Freevo or something
11:02pete_ Tommck : it'll get fixed eventually... someone else will report the bug
11:03Tommck maybe
11:03shodan what's the problem anyway ?
11:03Chutt shodan, no one knows, except for pete
11:03Tommck unless it's unique to your set of installed apps
11:03Chutt and he's not sharing any information
11:03Chutt apparently, what he provided already was enough
11:04Chutt even though he doesn't know what the problem is, and so really can't judge that
11:04* Tommck watches Chutt poke pete_ with a stick
11:05pete_ Tommck : sure, he's doing a good job too.
11:05pete_ Tommck : from the moment I walked in
11:05Tommck :)
11:05Tommck well... this whole conversation is completely useless to me anyway.
11:05Tommck this is supposed to be about development...
11:05pete_ yup
11:05Tommck on that note: It's snowing like a bitch here
11:05Tommck :)
11:06shodan pete_, stop whining and spill the beans already , what -is- your problem in -details-
11:06pete_ shodan : if you want more info than I provided, do you have
11:06pete_ heh
11:06Chutt because this is the development channel, i expect _actual_ information here.
11:06pete_ shodan : a pastebin or some such?
11:07shodan yes .
11:08Chutt uh,
11:09pete_ shodan : ok, where do you prefer?
11:09shodan I said yes , as in yes , dump everything you think is relevant to your problem in a pastebin
11:10pete_ shodan : do you have one I could use?
11:10shodan then when someone else comes you just point them to your pastebin
11:10shodan , what do you think I'm talking aboot ?
11:10Chutt apparently i'm being ignored.
11:10* Tommck hands Chutt a tissue :)
11:11pete_ shodan : I didn't know the url, I don't use them often
11:11Tommck pete -
11:11--- Channel: mode/#mythtv [+o Chutt] by ChanServ
11:11Tommck LOL
11:11--- !!!! pete_ was kicked from #mythtv by Chutt (Chutt)
11:11--- ---> pete_ [] has joined #mythtv
11:11Tommck dum da-dum-dum
11:11shodan chutt just said it ..
11:12pete_ he's on ignore.. it's just better for the channel, when I'm here, if I'm not listening to him
11:12pete_ apparently we aren't able to communicate
11:12--- Channel: mode/#mythtv [+b *!*pete@*] by Chutt
11:12--- !!!! pete_ was kicked from #mythtv by Chutt (Chutt)
11:12@Chutt ok, then.
11:12Tommck :)
11:12Tommck hehe
11:12GreyFoxx heh
11:12kvandivo well.... _that_ took long enough
11:13@Chutt had to remember my nickserv password
11:13shodan I just don't believe that guy , is he born yesterday jeez !
11:13* kvandivo throws back his head and cackles with insane glee.
11:13shodan do you always have to deal with people like that in here ?
11:13@Chutt yes
11:13@Chutt i generally don't have to ban them, though.
11:14@Chutt they either go away on their own, or start acting like they're not 3 anymore
11:14Tommck now he's talking about it with me in -users :)
11:14@Chutt ooh, i can ban him from there, too
11:15@Chutt should i?
11:15@Chutt i think i can, at least.
11:15kvandivo just ignore him. you've got better things to do on a monday morning, i'm sure
11:15@Chutt yeah, but this is fun
11:15Tommck Beirdo's in the convo too
11:16@Chutt beirdo, i have ops there, right?
11:16GreyFoxx Then do it. IRC is not a democracy, be a dictator. It helps get out the anger
11:16* Chutt plans a drive-by banning
11:16Tommck LOL
11:16Beirdo I'm not sure, I think so. :)
11:16GreyFoxx haha
11:16Beirdo let me look
11:16shodan [11:16:05] shodan if you want your problem fixed , you needed that guy , he's the only one who knows mythtv enough , he wrote the damn thing , your next best hope to fix it is #mythtv-users , but don't bother without a properly filled bug report
11:16shodan [11:16:50] pete_ never mind, I'll download the sources, spend hours fixing the problem (even though it would take him 10 seconds), and not release my changes
11:16shodan [11:18:00] shodan you are perfectly in your rights to do so
11:16Beirdo yep, you do :)
11:17shodan what a jackass !
11:17Tommck he bailed
11:17@Chutt aww
11:17GreyFoxx Chutt: He left on his own heh
11:17@Chutt see?
11:17@Chutt most people do
11:17Tommck what a dickhead
11:17GreyFoxx Hehehe god, I get such a kick out of conflict it's insane
11:17Tommck [11:15] Tommck: pete_ you called hiim a jackass, a fuckwit... you were not being very diplomatic... and you went into a room about development with a "this is giving me errors" question, which is not enough info
11:17GreyFoxx Especially when the nicer you are the more it pisses them off
11:17Tommck [11:16] pete_: Tommck : I went into the channel, not room, asking if the bug had already been reported. The information I provided was enough to determine that
11:18Tommck he friggin nitpicks on me calling it a "room" instead of a "channel"... jerk off
11:18Beirdo nice colors
11:18@Chutt black on black
11:18@Chutt neato
11:18GreyFoxx hehe, all I see is black :)
11:18Tommck [11:15] Tommck: pete_ you called hiim a jackass, a fuckwit... you were not being very diplomatic... and you went into a room about development with a "this is giving me errors" question, which is not enough info
11:18Tommck [11:16] pete_: Tommck : I went into the channel, not room, asking if the bug had already been reported. The information I provided was enough to determine that
11:18Tommck sorry
11:18Tommck Trillian did that on me
11:18Malinon What a sad life he must leave
11:18Beirdo that's why -users is +c
11:19Beirdo ain't no color allowed :)
11:19Tommck +c?
11:19Tommck ahh.. cool
11:19Malinon Hey, Beirdo... thanks for your help the other day... I FINALLY have NUVEXPORT working the way I want it (mostly). And I feel a little less stupid than before ;-)
11:19GreyFoxx all you have to do is /whois pete_ and it becomes clear :)
11:19Tommck so... what do you think his new nickname will be when he comes back?
11:19Beirdo Malinon: no problem, but this should be on -users :)
11:19Malinon sorry
11:19GreyFoxx Tommck: UnderpantsGnome
11:19Tommck :)
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11:21Beirdo --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Beirdo
11:21Beirdo --- Beirdo sets ban on *!*pete@*
11:21Beirdo --- Beirdo removes channel operator status from Beirdo
11:21Beirdo muhahaha
11:21@Chutt bah
11:21Tommck :)
11:22@Chutt see, it's no fun if he's not there
11:22GreyFoxx You could always paste it to him in a privmsg with a nyah nyah
11:23Beirdo I'll give him a day or two to rethink his attitude then lift it :)
11:23@Chutt why?
11:23GreyFoxx By then he'll figure out all he has to do is change his username to bypass the ban heh
11:24Beirdo I don't think he wants to play those games, he will lose
11:24Beirdo nothing like an AUP complaint to change that behavior
11:25GreyFoxx heh
11:26Tommck AUP?
11:27GreyFoxx Acceptable Usage Policy
11:27GreyFoxx Or something similar
11:27@Chutt <shrug>
11:27@Chutt that's all just silly
11:27GreyFoxx Most ISP have a 10 commandments type policy for user behaviour
11:28@Chutt if he can act like an adult, he's welcome to be in this channel
11:28Beirdo yup. ;)
11:28Tommck Chutt - I think maybe he should send you some chocolates or something :)
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11:32shodan kvandivo. what did you think is copyright infringing about the little icons I made in particular ? (I know they are infringing copyright laws and trademark laws on many levels but I'm just curious what do you think is the worst about them ?)
11:33@Chutt shodan, generally, don't use other people's images in a theme, unless they've been distributed under a free license.
11:33@Chutt for your own use, of course, that's fine. =)
11:33Icemaann Beirdo: if your curious, nuvexport patches for mencoder/xvid are at
11:33Icemaann Beirdo: should apply to cvs. you will need mplayer 1.0preX for cutlists.
11:34Beirdo Thanks. let xris know
11:34Icemaann Beirdo: he knows ;-)
11:34Beirdo I don't have CVS access quite yet, so he'll need to commit
11:34@Chutt oh yeah
11:34@Chutt i was gone most of the weekend.
11:35Beirdo yeah, you need your weekends to relax anyways
11:35_GeckoFiend wow Chutt looks like your morning has been as fun as mine. cept my tard was live and in person
11:35Icemaann Beirdo: yea, xris is looking at it. if it passes I assume he will commit it
11:35@Chutt hah
11:35@Chutt always fun
11:35@Chutt actually, work so far this morning's been good =)
11:36kvandivo shodan: in particular, I was talking about the logos. those are highly protected. but chutts statement is totally kosher in a blanket sense
11:36_GeckoFiend all the art in the new blue that I added is GPLed.
11:37GreyFoxx Heh and if you ask for permission and they start to thing "emulator" they will likely refuse :). BUT if you can find versions that they have freely licensed for usage you could use those
11:37shodan kvandivo, wouldn't that be trademark infringing then ? or both ?
11:37kvandivo choose your legal term. bottom line, it couldn't be distributed
11:37_GeckoFiend though how GPL makes sense for art I have no idea
11:38@Chutt it doesn't =)
11:38Beirdo I was just wondering that myself
11:38@Chutt but people use it anyway
11:39shodan technically , neither should google or the (fan) websites I took them from distribute those, right ?
11:39Tommck better to use Creative Commons License, I think
11:39Tommck google's not distributing them
11:39@Chutt technically
11:40Tommck Google's not caching the images in it's search... they're still loaded from the original site
11:40Tommck I think thumbnails are for the "" stuff
11:40Tommck but that's it
11:44shodan I'd says the cached thumbnails would still infrige on trademark, put then that's just pedantics .. I'll go back to making my cute copyright infriging icons :)
11:44Tommck shodan - :)
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11:49robertm Question is anyone having problems with mythtv cvs I am getting a lockup when I try to exit a video with esc. I am compiling the lastest cvs to confirm just checking if anyone else has seen it.
11:50robertm let me clearfy. No OS lockup the mythfrontend locks up and becomes unresponsive.
11:50@Chutt not seen that reported.
11:51Beirdo mine will occasionally segfault leaving a recording, but not hang
11:52robertm I pulled down the lastest and compiling with debug to get a bt now.
11:52robertm wasn't having this problem with either .16 or .17
11:53@Chutt i don't believe anything's changed since 17 that would cause that.
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11:54Beirdo got 7 > 140MB coredumps to look at sometime when I have time
11:54robertm I see it on both front ends.
11:54robertm For me it is every time. I will have a bt and -v all as soon as the compile is finished.
11:58@Chutt cool.
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12:00Beirdo repeatable leads to easier debugging
12:01mtjs I get error "alsa-play: xrun of at least 20.596 msecs. resetting stream" if I do mplayer /dev/video0
12:01mtjs what can I do about that ?
12:01@Chutt ask the mplayer people?
12:01@Chutt this is the mythtv development channel, really has nothing to do with mplayer.
12:01mtjs doesn't mythtv uses mplayer for stuff ?
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12:02@Chutt not for anything tv related
12:02mtjs ... maybe someone knew... I'm searching for a solution for about 4 days now..
12:03mtjs what does mythtv uses for tv ?
12:03Tommck v4l, bttv, ivtv...
12:04Beirdo it has a builtin player
12:05mtjs isn't there a program I can use to just test the tv stream ?
12:05mtjs like mplayer /dev/video0
12:05mtjs to be sure that works ?
12:05o_c Chutt, did you see that site mirrorring the ml?
12:05shodan mtjs, tvtime , or xawtv/motv
12:06--- User: *** o_c is now known as o_cee
12:06Beirdo mtjs: move back to -users where this belongs, please
12:07mtjs Beirdo: sorry :)
12:07mtjs shodan: it is a pvr 350, I've read tvtime doesn't work with ivtv
12:08Tommck mtjs - if it's a PVR, you can just to a cat /dev/videoX > file.mpg, right?
12:09mtjs Tommck: yes...
12:09o_cee ahem..
12:09mtjs Tommck: yet if I play the file in mplayer I get the alsa error...
12:09o_cee mtjs, Beirdo wasn't just kidding you know..
12:10* Beirdo shakes his head. You might wanna listen...
12:10Tommck Beirdo - sorry
12:10mtjs :)
12:11mtjs Beirdo: I understand, yet struggling for 4 days and read every page where the problem is mentioned, ...
12:11mtjs I just can't use my mythtv box :(
12:11o_cee mtjs, we understand that, but you're using the wrong channel for it...
12:11* Beirdo points at the topic
12:11Tommck mtjs - he just wants us to move to the #mythtv-users channel
12:12mtjs o_cee: I don't find the right channel for it ;)
12:12Tommck #mythtv-users
12:12mtjs Tommck: move move :)
12:12o_cee dammit, you ARE in the correct channel already, #mythtv-users !
12:12Tommck I'm already in -users too
12:12mtjs o_cee: ;)
12:13mtjs yet as I see it, the smart ppl are here and the dumb there ;)))
12:13o_cee mtjs, i can't, really, see what's funny.
12:13Beirdo well, mtjs, seems you are trying to rectify that.
12:13mtjs o_cee: maybe you mythtv box is also broken and that's why you can 't see..
12:13Tommck mtjs - you're going to get kicked/banned for this
12:13--- <<-- Freud^ [] has quit ("Leaving")
12:14* Tommck waits to see a "+o" ...
12:14mtjs Tommck: if that hapens, I will not mind... we are all just people...
12:14Tommck uh.. ok
12:16mtjs if I develop something for mythtv, can I then ask the question ?
12:16shadash no
12:16Tommck tick tock
12:16shadash ;-)
12:16mtjs the main idea was to get a mythbox working and let the stagair ppl work in the code
12:16mtjs but we don't even get the box working :)
12:16Tommck mtjs - this is for _development_ questions...
12:17shadash mtjs:
12:17mtjs the box IS for development for mythtv
12:17Tommck mtjs - let me speak slower
12:17Tommck mtjs - This ... is... for ... development... questions....
12:17mtjs Tommck: can you do that ? :o
12:17robertm When running Current CVS with -v all and I exit out I get several of these what do they mean. Didn't them with .17 yesterday. 2005-02-28 12:13:26.555 16384 bytes free on soundcard
12:17Tommck mtjs - not questions about how to get the machine to work
12:17mtjs Tommck: I want to set up a mythtv box for development
12:18Tommck I'm going to stop talking to you here... talk in -users if you want to talk at all
12:18Malinon It's going to be one of those days...
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12:18Tommck Malinon - no shit
12:18mtjs shadash: thanx!
12:18mtjs Tommck: do you always take yourselves THAT seriously ?
12:19* Tommck wishes he were an Op for once :)
12:19mtjs Tommck: that and a girlfriend is my guess
12:20Beirdo mtjs: move this to #mythtv-users or private messages before you really piss people off, this is not the right channel
12:20mtjs Beirdo: i get that.
12:20mtjs but now I'm doing ... small talk, no install questions anymore.
12:21Tommck LOL... you just don't get it
12:21mtjs :D
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12:24o_cee robertm, looks like a -v audio message
12:25o_cee Chutt, and yes, i gave you level 20 or 30 or whatever on #mythtv-users, so yes, you are able to ban/whatever in there.
12:25Beirdo Yeah, I confirmed it for him :)
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12:28o_cee :)
12:29robertm o_cee ? you want me to rerun again just using -v audio message?
12:29o_cee robertm, you asked where the messages came from
12:33robertm I am guess it means something in the audio area. I have used atrpms up until now I bet I need to turn something on it for sound. I turned on alsa lets see if that makes the problem go away.
12:35o_cee what makes you say it's a problem? it doesn't say anything's wrong?
12:36* o_cee is gone
12:37robertm Because at that point the frontend stops responding and the only choice I have is to kill the task. I posted a bt on bugzilla with the output of -v all and bt full in the ticket. But based on that message I am recompling with alsa support.
12:37@Chutt it's not dead
12:38@Chutt it can't draw the osd
12:38@Chutt and it's waiting for a response to the end of playback message
12:38@Chutt so either your osd theme went away
12:38@Chutt or you've not got it installed properly
12:38@Chutt etc
12:38@Chutt if you fix that, it'll work
12:43robertm I am not sure how to fix that. Make install didn't report any errors. I see the theme fine. When I hit esc it stops what file should I be looking for then to confirm it copied fine? I am moving over to myth-users as based on your reply it looks like a compile/make install issue.
12:43@Chutt well, without the -v all, do you see any 'Couldn't open osd' or similar errors?
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12:45robertm no
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12:45robertm switch to theme blue and having the same thing.
12:45@Chutt osdtheme?
12:45@Chutt the ui theme's separate from the osd theme.
12:46robertm ok. this is my output I will check the osdtheme?
12:46robertm 2005-02-28 12:44:43.851 Changing from None to WatchingPreRecorded
12:46robertm 2005-02-28 12:44:43.852 The realtime priority setting is not enabled.
12:46robertm 2005-02-28 12:44:43.871 Video timing method: DRM
12:46robertm couldn't find base dialog
12:47@Chutt heh
12:47@Chutt well, whichever osd theme you're using doesn't have stuff it needs.
12:47@Chutt what shows up when you hit 'i' during playback?
12:51robertm let me check.
12:54robertm Nothing comes up when I hit 'i'
12:54tuxristo robertm: FYI: the osd theme is one of the last screens in the playback options - it's not under appearance options like the ui theme is - make sure you tried changing the osd theme
12:54robertm ok where do I get the osd theme and select one from.
12:56robertm fixed thank you
12:57robertm now I can get to work on find out why my backend crash regularly. It started to crash when I added a slave backend and hasn't worked right since that is why I moved up to cvs
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13:07GreyFoxx Pale: It aids in mpeg decompression, requiring less CPU power
13:07GreyFoxx oops
13:08@Chutt what is xvmc!
13:08@Chutt jeopardy, right?
13:09GreyFoxx Hah yeah
13:21Tommck Anyone in here involved in MythVideo development?
13:22@Chutt it's pretty stale
13:22@Chutt thor + geckofiend have done a bit on it
13:23Tommck Chutt - I wanted to talk to someone who might know a bit about it so I can see how my DVD playing option would fit in
13:23Tommck DVD on disk, that is
13:24Tommck I guess I could also think about plugging that functionality into MythDVD, couldn't I?
13:24@Chutt mythvideo's more suited to selecting stuff to play.
13:24Tommck Chutt - yeah.. seems so
13:27Tommck Chutt - the only issue is that it's file-based... (it makes metadata objects based on files and their extensions.
13:28@Chutt doesn't always have to.
13:29Tommck Chutt - yeah, I know... been digging around in the code. I can change the original metadata read to see if something's a DVD..
13:29Tommck the question is... do I look for the "IFO" file and assume the directory's a DVD? Or do I have a ".thisisaDVD" file that is required in the directory?
13:30Tommck I'm trying to figure out the best approach
13:30Tommck I guess if I see a "VIDEO_TS" directory... that's be a good indicator
13:30@Chutt sure
13:30Tommck that's -=> that'd
13:30Tommck I think I'm going to work on that tonight... I'd love for that to work...
13:32Tommck another option would be to have a setting in MythVideo to "look for backed up DVDs in directory: " or something like that... that way you could have a sub-directory under the videos one for DVDs
13:32Tommck I think the VIDEO_TS is probably the best option so far... lets you arrange it however you like
13:33Tommck what do you think?
13:33@Chutt i don't care
13:34Tommck Chutt - thanks for your candor :)
13:46robertm Alright any one want to help my figuire out why my backend keeps sig faulting. It has been happening since I added in a slave under .17 and still happening with CVS. I have a BT ready. I will added it to bugzilla if no one wants to look at it now.
13:47robertm didn't sig fault under .16 or .17 until I added a slave system then started under .17
14:02Beirdo are avalanche's changes and repercussions pretty much done?
14:02@Chutt yup
14:03@Chutt unless people find any bugs
14:03Beirdo cool. I didn't want to check out mid-overhaul :)
14:06Tommck so it's pretty stable now?
14:06Tommck glad to hear that
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14:09robertm tommck I am having a sig fault with CVS can you help me with it.
14:09Tommck robertm - probably not... don't know that much... I've just started dabbling in it myself
14:09Tommck (actually.. the backend crashes on me about once a day too :) )
14:10robertm any idea why?
14:10Tommck nope... haven't dealt with it yet..
14:10Tommck I'm gonna have another try at figuring it out soon, but don't have the time right now
14:10Tommck I just run it in a loop script right now
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14:11robertm that is why I moved up to CVS to try and find out why and see if someone can help get the sig fault fixed.
14:11Tommck by the way, it's a "seg fault"
14:14Beirdo short for "segmentation fault"
14:17beavis Chutt, why there are no commits from you? no time or are you just waiting until avalache's ready?
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14:23robertm I never said I could type
14:23robertm or spell
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14:29_GeckoFiend beavis chutt broke all ten fingers and must now type with a pencil in his teeth. makes writing code very difficult
14:30* Tommck types with his Schlong when that happens
14:30streamtrade Gecko: he is like Rush Limbaugh, he can code with half his brain tied behind his back
14:33Beirdo _GeckoFiend: musta been from punching lame users in the channel that just won't obey the topic :)
14:34Tommck LOL Beirdo
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14:38mtjs :)
14:42robertm I get a seg fault at 0x00350060 in uni_mpeg4_inter_rl_len () from /usr/lib/ any idea were I could even look in the code for that. sounds like it is in deep in the recording class way below where I can code at.
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14:48gr8nash are you just asking OVER .. and OVER ..and OVEr??
14:52Tommck gr8nash - hehe
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15:31mrrio hey
15:32mrrio does anyone know why at-rpms has installed different version for mythtv add-ons
15:32mrrio (i realise atrpms is probably quite a bad way to install myth)
15:32mrrio oh right, sorry
15:33mrrio this is a dev channel
15:33mrrio ill be off then
15:33mrrio :P
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16:04mecraw how can I diagnose an EPG freeze? mythfrontend doesn't crash, it just locks up, will I still be able to get a debug backtrace if it doesn't crash?
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16:37BlurredWe my frontend crashes (well, freezes) randomly while watching recorded tv. How can I get useful debug info on it to narrow down what exactly is causing that? (the logs at 'all' don't say anything)
16:37@Chutt gdb, info in the docs.
16:38BlurredWe ok :) thanks
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17:32mecraw can i just run the frontend in gdb without doing a make install for all of mythtv?
17:32@Chutt no.
17:32mecraw ok
17:37streamtrade I am debugging a freeze in current cvs where there is no hdtv signal. I am getting a SIGTRAP, does a backtrace from that give enuf info to debug?
17:38@Chutt no.
17:38@Chutt well, unless you think it does, and that's enough for you to go on
17:39streamtrade I am getting it in _nptl_death_event not sure what that is, will continue to step thru code
17:46streamtrade ultimately I stepped to an "Error accessing memory address 0x0" after getting the message "Live TV not successfuly started"
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17:50streamtrade Put my trace in
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18:15WD Has anybody here been able to run mythbackend from gdb successfully? I can for a little bit, but then I get an "invalid thread handle" error in gdb
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19:00streamtrade Any thoughts on how I can debug a freeze? When I run in gdb the system locks, if I step thru a line at a time, I eventually get a segfault such as the one I posted. This rebooting is driving me nuts
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19:43dopester heh the scrollback of pete_ was fun
19:46dopester rkulagow: looks ok what you wrote about the qam / hd stuff..
19:47dopester rkulagow: just being a tad anal, but ya might want to change the date format to something like 2005-Feb-04 just so the rest of the world doesn't mis-read the date.. i TRY to do it myself..
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20:04GeckoFiend ok... I've reseated my heatsink maybe now I can keep running
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20:06Beirdo heh
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20:17dopester well its been more than 10 minutes? it still working?
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20:23streamtrade anyone here know tv_play.cpp well?
20:24dopester im lookin it over right now :)
20:24streamtrade I have a crash that I am trying to track down
20:24streamtrade The case is using hd and there is no signal
20:25dopester i got no clue what im lookin at yet though :)
20:25streamtrade The system does a hard freeze if I run it
20:25streamtrade that makes 2 of us
20:25streamtrade I am looking at the recorder variable
20:25streamtrade many times it gets set to NULL, but it seems it should be deleted then
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21:41xanderp quiet tonight
21:44xanderp where does mtd get it's log file setting from? mine is now pointed to a nonexistant directory
21:45mikegrb from mythlib I'd imagine
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21:46xanderp was hoping for a config file somewhere... it appears that since my emerge update world that i've got a screwed up config file somewhere... (I can't launch X either)
21:48thor_ Setup, dvd, -user question
21:48mikegrb thor_: <3
21:49mikegrb thor_: I got a new job :D
21:49thor_ cool
21:49thor_ something interesting ?
21:49mikegrb but I'm on call 24hrs/day :/
21:49mikegrb yes
21:49mikegrb general sys admin of 46 coloed servers and customer support
21:50thor_ very cool ... 'cept the 24/7 bit
21:50mikegrb well I essentially don't have to work except when there is a problem
21:50xanderp you get extra $$ for after hours support?
21:50mikegrb not when you are on salary
21:50xanderp ahh
21:50mikegrb but I get a raise in 3 months
21:50xanderp salary non-exempt get's overtime...
21:51xanderp but most IT jobs don't qualify
21:51xanderp (i'm a network admin)
21:51mikegrb I had two tickets wake me up, one at 12:45 am and another at 3:30 am this morning
21:51Beirdo congrats to mikegrb :)
21:51mikegrb both of them were crap too
21:51mikegrb Beirdo: :D
21:51Beirdo but of course
21:51Beirdo I hate being on call
21:52mikegrb Beirdo: except when it's for me, right?
21:52Baylink What are you guys using for tracking?
21:53Beirdo mikegrb: being on call is painful. however, with a baby, you're bound to have screwy hours anyways
21:53mikegrb Baylink: we use a custom jobbie
21:53mikegrb Beirdo: indeed
21:53mikegrb Beirdo: and it's not like I have to do any on site crap
21:54Beirdo Yeah. maint windows are the worst
21:54Beirdo 3-6am. Blech
21:54xanderp i worked late an extra 2 1/2hrs tongight getting email back up :(
21:54mikegrb well, the wife wants to properly welcome me home from my bussiness trip
21:54* mikegrb is afk
21:55Beirdo seeya, mikegrb
21:56xanderp anyone here know for sure where mtd -d get's it's log directory info from?
21:56GeckoFiend the temp direcotry setting
21:57GeckoFiend in mythdvd
21:57xanderp from mythsetup?
21:58xanderp crap... either way I can't fix it, because i can't get my x to launch now. :(
21:58Beirdo and that's not a MythTV development issue
21:59xanderp yup... :( i'm off to the users forum! Oh, and to the dev that released mythmusic .17-r1, thanks! that fixed my compile errors!
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 01 00:00:15 2005