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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2005-03-17

---Logopened Thu Mar 17 00:00:49 2005
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01:33rkulagow__ dopester: here?
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02:59anxt wow myth rawqz
02:59anxt hello #myth
03:00anxt took me a while to massage it all into working good
03:00anxt then i did a mysqldump
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05:44pa8 hello
05:45pa8 has anyone installed MythTV using Jarod Wilson's tutorial?
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06:22Geckofiend pa8 /topic
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09:06dopester rkulagow: here now?
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09:32_rkulagow_ dopester: here?
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12:16_rkulagow_ chutt: here?
12:23Chutt ya
12:23_rkulagow_ docs sync please.
12:24Chutt ok
12:24_rkulagow_ thanks
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12:25Chutt done
12:34hadees is really moving to
12:36Chutt yes
12:37Chutt if certain people get off their asses and start moving things
12:49hadees Chutt, hehe, hey when you took the vis from xmms did you convert them to qt?
12:49hadees some of the vis i have been fooling around with recently are gtk but i know it is a bad idea to keep them that way
12:49hadees if mythmusic is to use themj
12:51Chutt i don't think i took any directly from xmms
12:51Chutt fairly sure they were all available as standalone versions
12:51hadees Chutt, i thought you converted some xmms
12:51hadees hmm
12:53Chutt if i did, i wouldn't have bothered converting from gtk
12:54Chutt most of that crap was only for config interfaces, which don't exist, so that code could just be cut out
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12:55hadees Chutt, intresting, so you have no problem with me adding a vis with gtk?
12:55hadees the vis just start a new window right
12:55Chutt hell no
12:55Chutt no gtk
12:55Chutt no new windows
12:55hadees hehe okay
12:55hadees well i figured out how to access the winamp dlls
12:56hadees i just need to get mythtv to use it somehow
12:56hadees the xmms plugin though that does it is in gtk...
13:00Chutt it's using gtk for non-graphical stuff?
13:05hadees Chutt, no its more of a pass between from the winamp vis api to xmms vis api
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13:05hadees i think i can just use one of the existing vis in mythtv and just cut out he xmms stuff
13:06hadees it should be cool but stablity might be a problem
13:06hadees not all winamp vis will work
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13:33Blafasel123 Hello
13:33Blafasel123 Anybody here?
13:35Blafasel123 Is there a list with known bugs for the 0.17 release?
13:36kvandivo you can browse the mailing lists to ascertain that information, and note the topic of this channel
13:37Blafasel123 Blafasel123: I think I found a bug and just want to confirm if it is not known right now. Is this not the right please to discus about it?
13:37kvandivo mailing list is your best bet
13:39Blafasel123 Should I post the bug to the user or dev list?
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14:28o_cee BleedAway, there's a bugzilla as well
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14:32hadees o_cee, does that get used? it seems sort of hidden
14:32o_cee Captain_Murdoch, hasn't #249 been fixed by you?
14:32o_cee i don't get many bugs assigned to me, so i don't use it that much
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14:34LedHed anyone know if MythLCD is working in 0.17? I've been told that it may be borked?
14:35o_cee isn't lcd support built into myth? what's mythlcd?
14:35hadees LedHed, bah i said last resort
14:36hadees o_cee, yeah but the stuff is called mythlcd
14:36--- ---> mBob [] has joined #mythtv
14:36hadees o_cee, and it is an option
14:36LedHed hadees: I didnt ask him directly
14:36o_cee ah, no idea
14:36hadees LedHed, hehe yeah but this channel isn't for support questions
14:36hadees LedHed, just trying to warn you
14:36mBob ive just seen a suggestion of a pop3 client built into mythtv(to go with mythweb maybe) - just a suggestion
14:36LedHed I'm not really looking for support just a simple yes or no.
14:37o_cee mBob, that'll be fun, you know where to send the code!
14:37LedHed a myth Screensaver would be cool too (not the x screensaver)
14:37hadees LedHed, semantics
14:37LedHed ??
14:37hadees this channel is for talking about development like I coded this, its not compiling
14:37hadees etc
14:38hadees LedHed, there is one kind of the screen goes off after a certain time
14:38mBob o_cee - i wouldn't use it, and cant code. i just saw it as a suggestion so i thought i'd come mention it in here
14:38shadash hadees are you working on visualizations
14:38o_cee mBob, this isn't a suggestion channel.. but ok.
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14:38LedHed laterz
14:38shadash I want more vis but need a quick intro
14:39shadash if it's being worked on I'll just wait
14:39hadees mBob, its not a really good one, you first need a keyboard and why wouldn't you just use a computer
14:39hadees shadash, i am kind of working on one
14:39hadees i am working more on a vis that lets you use winamp vis
14:40hadees thus making a shitload of vis able to work with mythmusic
14:40LedHed a MythMail add-on would be ok, but I'd never use it. No keyboard attached...
14:40mBob hadees - fair enough, although it would be useful for a 'do all' box for the tv
14:40mBob some people might use it with a wireless keyboard though
14:40shadash hadees: nice, that's more then I was thinking
14:40hadees mBob, make you toast? you are way out on the extreme, there are other things like mabey home automation support that would be better first
14:41hadees shadash, your welcome to help i am not exactly a master at this yet myself
14:41mBob hadees - i didn't come in here to push the idea, just to suggest it, mythtv is already on the way to being a do all box, with mythphone and mythweb
14:41LedHed I'm going to try to make ReplayTV's a possible frontend for Myth
14:42mBob although home automation support would be _cool_
14:42mBob tell me when its in cvs ;)
14:42hadees mBob, yeah but mythpone is easy and mythweb isn't a myth module it is a web client ot access myth data
14:42LedHed only requires a simple script to take Myth Show info from the DB and export it to XML
14:42hadees LedHed, why though if you have replay tv why would you also have a mythtv box?
14:43hadees or the other way around
14:43LedHed lots of reasons.
14:43LedHed Storage, Video Quality
14:43LedHed the ReplayTV's have way better Video Quality
14:43hadees LedHed, eh your also thinking on the edge thats like the random stuff that gets done after mythtv is rock stable and has really good core plugins
14:44hadees LedHed, video out? or video in because if you record with a mythtv box the video quality can't be improved
14:44LedHed hadees: I can already do it. I just need to make it automated
14:44LedHed hadees: Video out
14:44LedHed the PVR-250 does a fine job recording
14:44shadash hadees: send me an email
14:44hadees shadash,
14:45hadees shadash, whats your email?
14:45NightMonkey LedHed: Well, then you need the 350 to do a proper comparison.
14:45LedHed NightMonkey: I have one
14:45LedHed replayTV's are still better
14:45hadees NightMonkey, 350 isn't a good choice in my opion because you need to encode anything thats not in mpeg2 into mpeg2 or it won't display
14:45hadees alot of extra work if you want to play a divx file or somthing
14:46LedHed ReaplyTV is the same way. It only plays mpeg2
14:46LedHed I dont need divx, I just buy more storage space
14:46NightMonkey LedHed: Huh. Well, I'm off to Google that one.
14:46hadees LedHed, you don't always have a choice of what files you want to view
14:47hadees true recordings are all mpeg2
14:47o_cee and this is relevant to myth development how?
14:47LedHed its not
14:47LedHed sorry
14:47shadash hadees: shadn(at)visualmediatech()com
14:47hadees o_cee, sorry i guess i lost site
14:47hadees sight
14:48shadash hadees: send me an email about where you are and I'll try to work with you
14:48LedHed it started out as a way to get ReplayTV's to play myth recordings, but soon went to video quality comparisons...
14:48hadees shadash, cool i am still at the start but there isn't really a whole lot to do in theory but it will be nice to bounce ideas off someone
14:49hadees shadash, whats your programing knowledge?
14:49shadash agreed
14:49shadash <--- hacker can do most scripting lang + read through c
14:50LedHed shadash: when will a VMC ISO ba available with the Whitebox distro?
14:50hadees shadash, k the stuff is mostly simple c
14:50hadees c++
14:50shadash LedHed: I'm downloading the iso's from centos as we speak
14:50shadash I have all the scripts to build that done already
14:51LedHed shadash: cool, I look forward to trying it out. I have a fresh Frontend waiting for a distro to install
14:52LedHed shadash: when you compile Myth add in MythLCD
14:52shadash LedHed: /join #VMT ;-)
14:52LedHed already there
14:52LedHed you arent
14:53LedHed :)
14:55Chutt yay, yet another lame distro
14:56LedHed why are so many people down on myth distros?
14:56Chutt because there's enough of them already.
14:56Chutt more useful things happen when contributing to existing projects rather than starting another.
14:57LedHed I think his goal is just to make it easier for people to install Myth.
14:57Chutt he's going about it rather poorly, imo.
14:57shadash well I started mine because I like the anaconda installer
14:58LedHed I've installed myth using his distro, it was the fastest way to setup a fronted.
14:58LedHed still needs work though
14:58Chutt knoppmyth isn't?
14:58shadash doesn't have xorg
14:58Chutt so?
14:58LedHed knoppmyth has never worked well for me
14:58Chutt doesn't get you anything myth needs.
14:59Chutt or even wants optionally
14:59shadash isn't as easy to set up in my opinion
14:59Chutt setup's near identical.
15:00shadash semantics, ***shrug*** everyones got what they like
15:00shadash I like RH been using it since 98
15:01Chutt wow, that's really long
15:01shadash well I'm not going down that road
15:02Chutt you're the one that brought it up
15:02shadash ** cough ** aix before that
15:02Chutt same with xorg
15:02Chutt you brought it up as a reason to now use knoppmyth
15:02shadash well to be honest
15:03shadash I don't like the grey crosshatch in xfree86
15:03shadash when it first comes up
15:03Chutt uh, so run xsetroot first
15:03shadash in Xorg you can make it black
15:06* Beirdo shakes his head. some people
15:08* LedHed thinks "Beirdo slaps people with fish also"
15:08LedHed :)
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15:17hadees Chutt, if you really wanted to stop them just offically saction one of them and give them a page on
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15:17Chutt hadees, why would i want to stop them?
15:17Chutt if they don't want to contribute usefully, that's their choice
15:17Chutt i think it's dumb, but, whatever
15:18hadees eh but if you supported one of them then most likely new devs would choose to submit to that one
15:18hadees Chutt, i am not saying you have to do anything but pick which one you think is the best
15:18Chutt i've already got the decent ones linked to from the website
15:22shadash hadees: picking one over another = flamewar
15:22hadees Chutt, do you know if any of the vis plugins you put into mythmusic were also a xmms plugin? i know you said they were standalone but alot of the time people code them a couple ways
15:23shadash being more supportive is all I ask for
15:23hadees shadash, Chutt rules mythtv, who cares
15:23hadees plus what the distros all want is just easy setup of mythtv, you don't need a distro for that
15:23Chutt hadees, i really don't remember
15:23Chutt i think the bumpscope was
15:24Chutt i may have based the goom interface off of the xmms plugin, but it's been quite a while.
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15:25Chutt shadash, i'm supportive of people that i think are doing something useful
15:25hadees Chutt, cool one quick question though this won't come into play till the end but one aspect of winamp plugins is they have a configuration window that pops up to configure aspects of it. I am sort of unsure how to let a mythtv user access this
15:25Chutt don't =)
15:25Chutt just pick reasonable defaults and hardcode em
15:25hadees Chutt, well its diffrent for each plugin
15:26Chutt right
15:26Chutt same answer.
15:26shadash unfotunatly I
15:26shadash I'm too far in to stop now :-(
15:26kvandivo don't throw good money after bad
15:26hadees Chutt, okay i was hoping to let people just go to and pick what they want
15:27Chutt stuff should have reasonable defaults
15:27Chutt you can't really pop up some random config window :p
15:27hadees Chutt, yeah i know that, i was thinking mabey mythsetup or something
15:27LedHed shadash: keep up the good work. n00bs appreciate it
15:28hadees or have the configure window display as the mythtv configs
15:28hadees anyway the first part is getting the vis to play first, this is all kind of finishing touches
15:29hadees shadash, you get my email?
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15:30Chutt hadees, what are you going to do about fft data?
15:32hadees Chutt, not sure, right now I just want to make sure i can access the dll functions
15:32shadash hadees, I like your idea except that it adds wine as a dependency
15:33hadees shadash, well winelib
15:33hadees and not a huge deal
15:33shadash ends justify the means though
15:33hadees shadash, you arn't running wine your just access the dll
15:34shadash understand
15:34Chutt the ends certainly don't justify the means
15:34Chutt i'll reject bad code, regardless of what it does.
15:34hadees Chutt, hehe any suggestions on fft?
15:36Chutt is it still part of the winamp api?
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15:40shadash Chutt, are you focused on adding specific visualizations rather than hadees idea
15:40hadees Chutt, i am not 100% i am still learning how the plugin works, right now all i can tell is that xmms is rendering data gathered from the dll
15:41hadees so i don't know if it is doing the calc on the data first inside the dll
15:41Chutt i'm not focused on adding any visualizations
15:41hadees or if the data being passed is just audio or whatever that needs to have calc
15:41Chutt hadees, last i checked (many years ago), the winamp api had hooks to pass in raw audio data and fft data
15:42thor_ xmms api has the same thing
15:42Chutt mythmusic only provides raw pcm
15:42Chutt no fft.
15:42Chutt so that's something you'd have to add.
15:42hadees Chutt, how do the other vis do that?
15:42LedHed Chutt: is mythLCD broken in 0.17? I checked the Mailing List but couldnt find an answer..
15:42Chutt do what?
15:42hadees they each have their own?
15:43Chutt ledhed, i don't use it.
15:43LedHed thanks
15:43Chutt i haven't received any reports of it being broken
15:43thor_ it is not broken
15:43Chutt so either no one uses it, or it isn't.
15:43LedHed thor_: thanks
15:43* o_cee waves at thor, hi! :)
15:43thor_ yup
15:43Chutt hadees, err, no. none of them use the fft data, except the spectroscope, and that generates its own
15:44hadees Chutt, hmm really? i though you needed to convert it to some data
15:44o_cee got an idea for closing screens in mythui and opengl.. like, dissolve the screen into a cloud fading/blowing away... heheheh...
15:44Chutt hadees, you really don't know much about audio, do you? :p
15:44* thor_ waits for news on Swedish girlfriends, showers, milkshakes, and what not
15:45hadees Chutt, hehe not really, this is kind of my learning project and I really am better on the wine side of this then the vis part
15:45thor_ hadees, raw PCM is _all_the data. you can, by definition, transform it into any other representation
15:45GreyFoxx o_cee: That would be neat. Or something like a fade in/out curtain openning kind of screen when you launch a video in mythvideo "_
15:45o_cee thor_, right. status report: new girl, really nice, showrs = yeah, a couple.. milkshakes: well, depends what brand. the icy ones haven't started yet, far to cold heh. the spicy ones are great, can't get enough.
15:46thor_ excellent
15:46o_cee yep
15:46o_cee :)
15:46hadees Chutt, well i guess if it can still do it i'll just pass in raw data
15:47hadees unless i can figure out what ever fft formula winamp uses
15:47hadees but whats the big diffrence, preformance?
15:48Chutt er
15:48Chutt fft is frequency domain
15:48o_cee got an exam tomorrow involving ft and imagemanipulation :)
15:48Chutt heh
15:48Chutt actually, it's easier this way: pcm data, graphed, is an oscilliscope
15:48hadees Chutt, its not just that isn't it a general concept of data transformation
15:49Chutt fft data, graphed, is a spectroscope
15:49thor_ o_cee, Fourier Transformations?
15:49o_cee thor_, yeah
15:49thor_ cool
15:49o_cee thor_, part of what i've been reading at least.. yeah it's nice
15:50hadees see you can do it on physics, number theory, combinatorics, signal processing, probability theory, statistics, cryptography, acoustics, oceanography, optics
15:50thor_ econometrics
15:50o_cee images
15:51hadees is the formula always the same?
15:52o_cee sure
15:52o_cee fft is a way of calculating the ft
15:52o_cee fast fourier transform
15:53o_cee uses aproxamisations and stuff that makes it alot faster than normal ft
15:53o_cee yeah nice spelling :P
15:53hadees so no matter what lib i use to get the fft from pcm it will be the same as if i used another libary on the same pcm
15:53o_cee should be similar
15:54o_cee transforming an image to ft and back shows no difference. if you'd compare it bit by bit there might be differences caused by the fft algo, but
15:54thor_ uhm, fftw is already used in mythmusic
15:54hadees thor_, huh for what? chutt just said it wasn't
15:54hadees well one vis uses it but it has it's own
15:58hadees hmm i actully remember installing that now
16:01hadees with raw pcm is it easy to get the sample rate?
16:02thor_ +90% of the time, it is 16 bits, 2 channels, 44.1
16:03thor_ and the listner method in the decoding stuff tells you in any case
16:03hadees thor_, yeah thats what is hard coded into the xmms plugin
16:03hadees but it would be nice to set that
16:04hadees cool
16:04Netslayer what's that triple dot thing mean again that profs use, ie a dot above two other dots? is it therfore?
16:04hadees etc ?
16:05Netslayer . / ..
16:05thor_ three dots in a triangle is therefore
16:06* thor_ glances at topic
16:06shadash keep up with all the good vis/mythmusic info
16:07Beirdo QED
16:07Netslayer in open office how do you do a pheta with the formula thing?
16:07Beirdo Netslayer: what does that have to do with MythTV development?
16:08LedHed beirdo always true to the cause
16:08Netslayer wtf oh i'm in the wrong channel lol
16:08Netslayer Beirdo, whoops sorry
16:10hadees okay so looking at the lib i was wrong it seems like the winamp api faker thing does access raw pcm but it also asks for the freq
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16:20hadees anyone know anything about mmap function?
16:21thor_ ufg
16:23hadees thor_, hehe well see the xmms vis i am looking at loads up the dll then sets everything up and then it does a mmap to /tmp/winamp
16:23hadees I am kind of unsure why that is needed
16:24hadees i mean currently i don't know of any other way to access it but i would assume that has to be a better way
16:25thor_ haven't the slightest
16:26hadees i guess they are trying to lock onto the vis proc running
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17:06Alex23NJ Can someone recommend a USB-based TV input/output gadget known to work well under Linux?
17:06o_cee yepp. says right in the topic.
17:09* Alex23NJ bows and backs toward the exit.
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17:25kvandivo o_cee's gettin a bit frisky with the answers there..
17:26Beirdo heh
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17:30o_cee Page was generated in 17.145609 seconds
17:30o_cee wtf
17:30o_cee that's no good :)
17:30o_cee and no one to call at 11:30.. blah
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17:32mikegrb o_cee: <3
17:33mikegrb o_cee: you need a linode ;)
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17:34o_cee heh :)
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18:19Quan is there any howto docs specific on upgrading frm .15 to 17
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18:36GoP-Demon o_O
18:36GoP-Demon has anyone heard of myth tv for the xbox ?
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18:38hadees Chutt, Okay now this is nuts it seems what i thought was just a lib it called is actully a helper program that runs till the xmms plugin tells it to quit, i am guessing this isn't the kind of thing you want in myth
18:39hadees although i never coded anything like this mabey thats how you should do it...
18:39o_cee wtf is that guy doin
18:39hadees and then the plugin talks to the helper app via shared memory map on a file
18:39hadees does seem right to me
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18:44hadees i mean i guess its the same sort of thing as spawning a process but i don't know if i should still do it...
18:45GoP-Demon who r u talking to
18:46hadees GoP-Demon, anyone that will lisen... before I was talking to Chutt, Thor and a few other people about this
18:46o_cee GoP-Demon, the address above was for you.
18:47o_cee GoP-Demon, <-- see, seems they're really good.
18:47GoP-Demon y is the link for me
18:48GoP-Demon i can read : \
18:48o_cee because you're in the wrong channel. thought it was because you couldn't read the topic..
18:48GoP-Demon o.o
18:48o_cee looks like boobs
18:49hadees o_cee, he can read already? your program must work fast
18:49GoP-Demon o_O
18:49GoP-Demon whats a read
18:49o_cee hadees, yep :)
18:49o_cee hey that other boob looks odd, they're supposed to be the same size dood
18:49GoP-Demon whats a boob
18:49GoP-Demon :o
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18:49hadees that thing on your mom's chest
18:49o_cee haha
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18:50o_cee yep
18:56Anduin o_cee - he is doing exactly what it says.
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19:12hadees alright so i totally understand this xmms-winamp plugin now however there is still the issue of the shared memory file, thats how mythmusic is going to talk to the child process if i keep things the same however i could put it in memory so i don't have to use a tmp file
19:12hadees is there any reason a tmp file would be bad?
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19:34pmiller9 how long show it take to change channels with mythtv and a PVR-150/500? .. mine takes like 2 seconds; what on earth is mythtv doing?
19:34pmiller9 s/show/should
19:35dopester see topic
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23:03Captain_Murdo| heh, is selling projectors now.
23:03* mikegrb sells a Captain_Murdoch
23:04Chutt whazzat?
23:04Captain_Murdo| that's like a mastercard, "priceless" :)
23:04mikegrb Captain_Murdoch: I could probably get $5, if I lie and say you do windows
23:05Captain_Murdo| they're selling a toshiba projector for $759
23:05Chutt old dlp, though
23:06Chutt means rainbows =)
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23:06Captain_Murdo| yeah, just thought it kinda funny. I'm happy with my BenQ. only use it for movies at night though.
23:06Chutt mine's on right now
23:06Chutt adult swim =)
23:06Captain_Murdo| my wife can see the rainbows occasionally and I can see them if I dart my eyes around.
23:07Chutt speaking of which, i shall go watch cartoons now
23:07Captain_Murdo| I don't have a Myth box in the vicinity though, need to run some cabling.
23:07rkulagow__ captain murdoch: don't do that then.
23:07rkulagow__ or, learn to enjoy them
23:07Captain_Murdo| rkulagow_ that's what I tell her. :)
23:07Captain_Murdo| I don't see them, I have to make myself see them.
23:08Captain_Murdo| too much REM while awake. :)
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 18 00:00:26 2005