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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-02-18

---Logopened Sun Feb 18 00:00:25 2007
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00:27<xris>monkeyBox: "asking for experts" != "talking about mythtv code"
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00:28<briand>g'evening, xris
00:29<monkeyBox>xris, I know, but this is a "last resort" for me
00:29<briand>well, I *think* i've added the artist sort to mythmusic... need to modify the edit metadata screen to allow changing it, then i'll submit it
00:29<briand>monkeyBox: this is not a resort. it is a workplace.
00:29<xris>monkeyBox: doesn't make this the right place to ask, esp. when you prefix it with the fact that you KNOW it's not the right place to ask
00:31<xris>briand: cool
00:31<xris>I'm still mucking with channel icon search/lookup via the web
00:31<monkeyBox>where else do you suggest I go for help? Every discussion I've seen on this issue ends up at a dead end. I'm just asking if you've heard anything about it, or if you know whether it's been resolved. I'm not asking for you to hold my hand through fixing it.
00:31<briand>even easier than i thought, actually!
00:31<briand>monkeyBox: #mythtv-users
00:32<xris>monkeyBox: #mythtv-users, mythtv-users mailing list, or one of the unofficial forums.
00:32<briand>xris: i even figured out the 'protocol' for updating dbcheck.cpp for the db changes
00:32[~]xris is jealous that Captain_Murdoch gets to go to brazil for free
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00:33<briand>i'm just now installing phpMyAdmin so i can change around some sort keys and see if my changes actually work... :)
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00:35<xris>I don't think I've spent more than 30 secs total in phpmyadmin
00:35<briand>well, i figured that'd be a bit easier than typing out tons of selects and updates at the mysql prompt.
00:36<xris>definitely a time-saver
00:40<t0ny-p40>What table is the recording profiles saved in?
00:40<xris>t0ny-p40: record, among others
00:41<briand>there's also one called "recordingprofiles"
00:41<t0ny-p40>ahh I missed that one some how :)
00:41<xris>briand: you're more correct. I was thinking schedules.
00:42<briand>that makes twice in one day. :)
00:43<t0ny-p40>is it safe to delete a profilegroup I made from there?
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00:50<Captain_Murdoch>anything is safe as long as you have a backup. :) should be ok as long as you know what you're doing. I think you also want to get rid of the corresponding entries from the codecparams table.
00:57<Captain_Murdoch>cool.... I just disconnected from a running LiveTV session, fixed a bug, recompiled mythfrontend, fired mythfrontend back up and reattached to the LiveTV session resuming at the exact point I left off watching.
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14:13<briand>afternoon, xris... how goes it?
14:14<xris>not sure. just woke up
14:14<briand>ah. :) almost thinking about lunch, right about now.
14:26<briand>argh! I'm *this* > < close...
14:27<briand>i guess i shouldn't complain. I was _this_ > < close, earlier today.
14:31<janneg>does anyone know why the recordedseek table schema is the way it is?
14:33<janneg>using a int for a variable which can have two different values does matter for 12,366,305 entries
14:34<xris>janneg: as opposed to tinyint?
14:34<janneg>varchar for the offset takes also more space for position greater then 10MB
14:34<janneg>xris: yes
14:35<xris>which field are you talking about, btw?
14:35<xris>yeah, weird
14:35<xris>unsigned tinyint would be much better
14:35<xris>it's not like we have more than 256 types
14:36<xris>same in recordedmarup
14:36<xris>offset should be int, too.
14:36<xris>using varchar slows down mysql
14:37<janneg>bigint since we have files greater 4gb
14:37<xris>well, yes.
14:37<xris>I just meant int vs string
14:37<xris>or rather "fixed length" vs "variable length"
14:38<janneg>type is signed. and we have less than 20 values
14:38<xris>we have negative types?
14:39<janneg>yes, see programinfo.h
14:40<xris>ah. good enough. just woke up, brain's not working right.
14:40<xris>so signed it is.
14:41<xris>conversion seems to work fine. testing now
14:43<xris>yup, works fine for me.
14:43<xris>that should really speed up deletes, etc.
14:43<xris>and I know that those were some of the slow queries.
14:43<janneg>updating the offset is unfortunately not so easy
14:44<xris>ALTER TABLE recordedmarkup MODIFY type TINYINT NOT NULL DEFAULT 0;
14:44<xris>ALTER TABLE recordedmarkup MODIFY offset BIGINT UNSIGNED;
14:44<janneg>you have to convert the string
14:44<xris>(and recordedseek)
14:44<xris>no, you don't
14:45<janneg>I didn't know that that's supposed to work
14:45<xris>mysql has basic string-to-int conversion
14:46<xris>I'll leave it like this for awhile if you want, but I concur that there's no need for the larger fields.
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14:47<xris>is "mark" something that we could change to another type, too? my largest value is 226530
14:47<xris>seems like unsigned smallint or mediumint would suffice
14:47<janneg>for recordedseek it's the frame number
14:47<xris>er, mediumint
14:48<xris>how does that differ from offset? (which it does)
14:48<janneg>offset is the byte offset of the file
14:51<xris>ah, gotcha
14:51<xris>should at least make it unsigned, then
14:53<xris>although I'm going to guess that an unsigned mediumint would be enough for just about anything
14:53<janneg>mediumint is 3 bytes?
14:54<xris>that leaves a max of over 77 hours at 60fps
14:54<janneg>77 hours at 60 fps
14:55<xris>yeah. it's a signed bigint now.
14:55<xris>oops, typo
14:57<xris>wonder how much that changes the size on disk.
14:57<xris>I forgot to measure. heh
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14:59<janneg>8 byte * no. entries for type and mark + maybe 1.5-2 byte for offset
14:59<xris>ok, found my backup. recordedseek went from 13M + 9.1M to 6M + 7.1M
15:00<xris>(myd + myi)
15:00<xris>markup was in k, but went from 35+38 to 19+22
15:01<xris>so that's pretty significant. should speed up searches/deletes/etc significantly.
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15:05<xris>ok, I think it's definitely time that I hooked user-job support into mythweb. I keep finding programs that think they've been commflagged, but don't show any marks.
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15:57<quants>just a thought, anyone ever considered a software tuner for mythtv to make our own broadcasts?
15:59<quants>guess I'm not gonna hang around to get an answer
16:00<quants>have fun, and thanks
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16:15[~]xris wonders what he meant by that
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16:56<janneg>xris: I have the commit ready but can it test in about one hour
16:58<gbee>fwiw I had planned to make those changes when I split recordedmarkup into recordedseek, but I completely forgot
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18:09<janneg>and the schema update runs and runs ...
18:11<janneg>and runs
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18:25<janneg>and runs
18:30<_gnome42>janneg: That's a long time! My recordedseek is 90M + 60M :) How big is your's?
18:31<briand>aha!! finally got it right.
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18:31<briand>lemme whip up a diff file and type up a ticket.... then we'll have a 'sort artist' field in mythmusic.
18:32<janneg>474M + 419M
18:32<janneg>and it still runs
18:32<briand>holy cow.
18:32<briand>no wonder it's taking a while
18:33<janneg>yes, and my db update might be not optimal
18:33<_gnome42>ha, lol
18:33<_gnome42>would it help to drop the indexes first?
18:34<janneg>3 alter table statements == 3 complete table copies
18:39<janneg>`2007-02-19 01:05:20.862 Upgrading to schema version 1181
18:39<janneg>2007-02-19 01:38:43.471 New DB connection, total: 4
18:39<janneg>33 minutes
18:39<janneg>244M of 891M saved
18:40<_gnome42>very nice savings!
18:42<janneg>27%. let's see if mysqloptimize can save more space
18:42<briand>gbee: you still around?
18:42<_gnome42>I recently put together a small script to locate non-existant files in the recordedseek table. I was able to shave off 10-15M I think.
18:43<janneg>non-existant how? no matching recorded entry or missing file?
18:44<_gnome42>missing files, ideally there wouldn't be any of course, but over time with my testing they built up :)
18:44<janneg>190M saving for the data file but only 60M for the index
18:44<GreyFoxx>I've seen the same in my livetv history. 39 entries yet there are no files since I don'ty use it except for testing :)
18:47<_gnome42>GreyFoxx: the tvchain table? Yeah, I regularily 'empty' that one as well
18:49<_gnome42>janneg: would it make sense to have 'offset' be last in the table because it is the only field not indexed? more efficient?
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18:59<janneg>_gnome42: I don't know much about mysql internals
18:59<_gnome42>janneg: how much memory do you have in you DB? How did it perform on seeking with that big of a table?
19:00<_gnome42>janneg: yeah, me neither but I thought I might have read somewhere that it made sense to pay attention to the order of the fields.
19:01<janneg>one gigabyte and seeking doesn't depend on the database. the position map is read into memory on playback start
19:01<_gnome42>janneg: since you are doing 3 complete table copies I thought it might be a good time to work that in. Just a thought.
19:01<_gnome42>ah, right
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19:12<janneg>I hope mysql does only one table copy if I have all three modify statements in one ALTER TABLE command
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19:38<_gnome42>janneg: I can't find the reference I was thinking of. Field order is important in indexes and queries but I can't find anything on the field-order-in-table <-> index relationship.
19:38<janneg>recorded normalisation and replacing chanid,starttime with some sort of recordedid is the next optimization
19:39<_gnome42>sounds good
19:39<janneg>_gnome42: I doubt that it matters
19:40<janneg>it should give us 8 bytes per entry
19:40<_gnome42>yeah, I agree
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21:47<xris>Chutt: given any thought to SoC for this year?
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22:39<xris>janneg: (if still awake), you ever get an answer about the recorded* table edits we talked about earlier?
22:45<xris>anyone around who knows about recordedseek/recordedmarkup to give a third opinion on these changes?
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22:54<nn>are there any usb2.0 (or if unavoidable, PCI) video in devices that work with myth that have component in? no need for an actual tuner, just component (and maybe composite) in
22:55<briand>nn: topic.
22:55<xris>nn: please read the topic before speaking
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22:56<nn>briand: ahh, shit sorry
22:56[~]xris apologizes for that coming out harsh
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23:04[~]xris wonders where all of the devs have been this last week.
23:04<briand>I saw Chutt check in here earlier today
23:05<briand>maybe they were at MythDevCon ;)
23:06[~]xris cries because he wasn't invited.
23:06<xris>yeah, he was here briefly.
23:07<xris>though I know he's been busy since he wasn't even on irc for a few days..
23:08<xris>I had sent him a bunch of info on what it would take to incorporate a "mythtv, inc." 501c3 org, since there had been some ramblings about it here and there.
23:08<briand>incorporate in delaware. :)
23:08<briand>(cheaper there, apparently)
23:09<xris>nonprofits get special treatment everywhere, I think.
23:09<xris>but that's Isaac's decision, and I'm pretty sure he'd want/need to talk to a lawyer first to learn about what kinds of protections (or loss of protections) it would give.
23:09<briand>true... now, my question would be: what specific benefit(s) of being a 501c3 are being sought?
23:09<xris>the fear is that if we incorporated, we'd be a bigger target for lawsuit
23:10<xris>the benefits are... time spent developing might be tax deductible, donations would be tax deductible, and we could keep some money around for things like helping pay for tradeshow exhibits, etc.
23:11<briand>our local amateur radio group is 501c3 -- but we have all sorts of property in inventory, and accept donated equipment from state and local government surplus..
23:12<briand>"myth, inc" would have.. well, an intellectual property, but one that is freely given away -- is that still an asset to protect? :shrug:
23:12<briand>i dunno... i'm not a lawyer.
23:12<xris>yeah. can manage all of the money stuff for us, but it really comes down to how isaac feels about things. He's against donations, etc., but it'd be nice to be able to sell tshirts, etc to raise a little money for hardware purchases, trade shows, etc.
23:13<xris>and I personally feel kind of bad that he's now personally responsible for taxes on things like the server that was given to mythtv last year, etc.
23:14<briand>ah.. then there *is* some physical inventory involved...
23:14<briand>i had forgotten about the server donation
23:14<briand>plus annual expenses for the domain name, etc
23:15<xris>stuff he pays out of pocket
23:15<xris>heck, he paid hosting fees out of pocket until we got the new server, too
23:15<briand>not to change the subject -- but you just reminded me....
23:16<briand>I got a 24.68% raise this past Thursday.
23:16<xris>I might get a raise this year. not sure I want/deserve one. Would rather get more benefits.
23:16<briand>apparently, I'm "much, much better" than they expected when they hired me 1.10 years ago
23:16<briand>..and they felt 'guilty'
23:17<xris>one of my best friends just got promoted to "senior program manager" for the realplayer project. with a $7k raise.
23:17<briand>this is -really- something, when you consider I'm not working in the private sector. state gov't.
23:17<briand>exactly. could have knocked me over with a feather.
23:19<briand>7K is a pretty decent raise, too.. at my last private-sector job (> 4 years ago), I got a $12K raise... my boss submitted paperwork for 12K, figuring they always cut it back, and he was targeting 8K. Told me about it, and said not to expect anything for a few months.
23:20<briand>a week later, he took me out to lunch to say the higher-ups had signed the paperwork without altering anything.
23:22<briand>btw, did u see my trac # 3104?
23:23<xris>I've had raises that big before... won't get them again, though, now that I make a decent amount.
23:23<briand>that -should- install all the framework for the artist sort changes
23:23<xris>if the ticket got assigned to me, I've probably glanced at the email, but haven't done anything in depth in trac lately.
23:23<briand>hasn't been assigned to anyone, yet... still in isaac's inbox.
23:24<briand>I imagine gbee will probably take it
23:25<xris>ah, then I didn't see it. I ignore most tickets if they're not assigned to me... will occasionally read through the list if I'm feeling adventurous, but it's usually to find specific things (like channel icon stuff, which I'm currently working on)
23:26<briand>i've updated the master_iconlist SVN here a couple of times, but haven't started playing with it yet
23:26<xris>it's going to go away completely at some point
23:26<briand>then how will I specify/correct/get my icons?
23:28<briand>well, yes... i had read that much... i meant, how will it work? do I manually or automatically submit my list of xmlids and it ships the appropriate icons, or what?
23:30<xris>I'll soon have a cli app to compare your db with the website, but I'm hoping the search stuff will eventually be built into mythtv-setup or the frontend
23:30<xris>I'll add it to mythweb, too
23:33<briand>ah.. so we'll have an "Update Channel Icons" button in setup or something, then...
23:35<xris>it'll pull down any perfect matches, and then let the user pick/choose for others, and have the option to submit those findings back to the server for later inclusion.
23:37<briand>hmm... or, you could cache the channel lineups and simply offer the "Comcast Analog - Tallahassee" to the second and subsequent users from any given area. could create the necessary tarball on-the-fly and ship it
23:40<briand>...of course, with the way cable companies (comcast, especially) like to change around the channel lineups, it might quickly become a nightmare trying to keep up -- strike that idea. :)
23:41<xris>not exactly a lot of bandwidth in the csv file the web app spits out
23:42<xris>easier to track xmitvid -> lyngsat logo, too
23:44<xris>nowhere bothers to track that info yet, either. I kind of wish lyngsat did things that way. their organizational model sucks.
23:46<briand>ah.. so you'd send the user the csv file, not the icons, and they'd grab the actual icons from lyngsat on their local myth box
23:48<xris>what you see at is exactly what the user would see
23:48<xris>the full-channel-lineup search would just be a bigger file (follow the search link above to get an idea of what it would look like)
23:51<briand>| artist_id | artist_name | artist_sortkey |
23:51<briand>| 369 | Ringo Starr | Starr, Ringo |
23:53<briand>mythconverg.music_artists where music_artists.artist_sortkey like 'Starr%'
23:53<briand>eventually, he'll be alphabetized under 'S', not 'R' :)
23:53<briand>...but still display as 'Ringo Starr'
23:54<xris>user picks that info, or is it automated?
23:54<briand>that's what i put in 3104 ...
23:54<briand>it'll automatically copy the contents of artist_name
23:54<briand>thus, giving them the same exact sort they currently have
23:55<briand>i put an edit box in the editmetadata screen to allow the user to alter it
23:55<briand>i haven't gone into actually changing the sort field, yet...
23:56<briand>there's actually quite a bit of stuff that can get yanked out of there after this goes in
23:57<xris>ah, cool
23:57<briand>i thought about writing some scripts to semi-automate changing my database...
23:57<briand>but then I'd still have to fix up 'Floyd, Pink' and 'Tull, Jethro' ...
23:58<briand>so i thought better of it. :)
23:59<xris>that was going to be my concern, too
---Logclosed Mon Feb 19 00:00:34 2007