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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-03-06

---Logopened Tue Mar 06 00:00:14 2007
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10:14<celston>stuarta: ping
10:15<celston>I think I've pinned down my PiP window swap problem
10:15<celston>The RingBuffer is being asked to seek beyond the end of the file. Is that ever valid?
10:16<celston>Occasionally, the seek is so far past the end of the file, that we have to wait more than 16 seconds for data, so we give up and error. And the screen goes blank.
10:16<stuarta>ooo, don't believe it should attempt that.
10:17<celston>I'll try and work out who's asking for that seek and why, but is it also valid for the RingBuffer to truncate the seek to the size of the file at most?
10:18<celston>On the basis that the file might still be growing, so EOF won't be EOF for long.
10:18<Chutt>what version are you running?
10:18<stuarta>i'm not the ringbuffer expert, but he's just arrived.
10:18<celston>head as of last Monday
10:18<Chutt>i fixed a similar issue a while back
10:19<celston>while <> 1 week?
10:19<Chutt>but if it's that recent, then it's not the same thing
10:20<Chutt>there are valid reasons to seek beyond the end of the file, though, so best not to truncate the seek
10:20<Chutt>better to figure out why it's trying to in the first place
10:20<celston>Fair enough.
10:21<celston>This may be related to the other issue I was going to move on to once I'd fixed this. If you swap PiP window for main, the position you start playing back in doesn't seem to be consistent.
10:22<celston>e.g.: If I can see a certain scene in the PiP window, I expect approx the same scene to come on the main screen when I swap them - what actually seems to happen is that I see something much nearer the beginning of the live recording.
10:22<Chutt>swapping should just be two channel changes
10:23<celston>hmmm. I seem to be swapping between two 'live' recordings (what's the myth technical term for that BTW?)
10:24<Chutt>ah, i dunno
10:24<Chutt>daniel might have changed things
10:24<celston>such that if you're swapping between two channels you get to keep your buffers?
10:24<celston>I think so.
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10:39<celston>OK, the way it seems to be being done is:
10:39<celston>tear down main and pip sessions, start up new sessions but swap the channels / playback sessions etc, seek the playback sessions to zero, then NVP::FastForward to the same frame that they were previously on. Do we know anything bad about NVP::FastForward?
10:40<stuarta>sounds like something there that could be optimized.
10:41<celston>hmm, SwapPIP converts the frame to a time, and then FastForward converts that time back into a frame.
10:41<celston>I think there's a case for NVP:SetFrame
10:41<stuarta>SeekToFrame ?
10:42<celston>I think first I need to work out what's going wrong here, then I'll worry about fixing it tho :D
10:42<stuarta>always a good plan :)
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10:48<celston>Ah, there's already an NuppelVideoPlayer::JumpToFrame
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11:03<celston>Got it! copy+paste error. both players are being told to fast forward to the frame that the pip player was on!
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11:05<stuarta>nice one.
11:05<celston>I think I'll change it to use JumpToFrame as well.
11:07<stuarta>i'd do it as two patches.
11:07<stuarta>1 to fix the typo, 1 to change to JumpToFrame
11:07<celston>OK, I'll put them in trac, daniel as cc for this, right?
11:08<stuarta>assign them to him if you can
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11:25<stuarta>back later
11:49<okolsi>hmm... I did put my email to #3172 as a Reporter.. but it shows as anonymous.. Trac update..?
11:55<xris>isaac updated it the other day
11:55<Chutt>i think i'm just going to revert to an older trac
11:55<xris>Chutt: I hope the db will go backwards
11:55<Chutt>no changes to it
11:55<xris>ah, that's good
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13:58<gnome42>Chutt: Got a sec?
13:59<Chutt>kind of
14:00<gnome42>k, no prob. I'll make a ticket with my one liner and then give the ticket #
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14:31<gnome42>Chutt: Ok, it's #3173
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14:31<gnome42>oh, another little trac oddity ... it seems to have reset "Reported by:" to anonymous
14:32<Chutt>someone said that before
14:32<gnome42>I noticed it was doing that when I hit preview too
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15:04<jaym>how do i enable upnp on mythtv?
15:04<jaym>doh sorry
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15:55<MoRpHeUz>just to understand: when I use an analog tv card, it gets the stream as YUV and then transcodes to MPEG-4 (nuv)....but if I use a DVB card it'll get the stream as MPEG-2 from the card and will not transcode to anything. Is that right ?
15:56<Chutt>yuv gets _encoded_ to mpeg4.
15:57<Chutt>transcoding implies decompressing and then recompressing.
15:58<MoRpHeUz>Chutt: ow, ok...! thanks!
15:58<gnome42>... MPEG-2 from the dvb card is correct, no encoding required
15:58<MoRpHeUz>following what you said, to get the DVB's stream to MPEG-4, I'll need to _transcode_ right ? (MPEG2 -> yuv -> MPEG4)
16:00<gnome42>lets move to -users :)
16:00<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: I'm going to reach a "dev-subject" using this hehe =P
16:00<MoRpHeUz>it was just the start of the question..
16:01<MoRpHeUz>it's NuppelVideoRecorder that get's the yuv content and encodes to MPEG4...
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16:02<MoRpHeUz>does DVB cards also use NuppelVideoRecorder or as soon as it detects a DVB card it start using another class ? (trying to find it to start coding this transcode stuff)
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16:03<gnome42>MoRpHeUz: try asking about transcoding from MPEG2 -> MPEG4 in #mythtv-users
16:05<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: I don't want to just transcode the files...I'm trying to code the LiveTV's transcode stuff... Chris is not here to answer this questions, so I'm asking in the channel...
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16:05<MoRpHeUz>it's a dev question =)
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16:06<gnome42>Oh, ok. Sounded like you needed transcoding :)
16:07<gnome42>I don't know the code very well, so I won't send yo ufurther astray :)
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16:07<MoRpHeUz>As I dont have a DVB card right now, I don't know where the DVB streams get recorded...
16:08<gnome42>you _can_ get non MPEG2 stuff from dvb too but its not encoded
16:08<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: that's ok..thanks anyway! =)
16:08<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: mean, yuv ?
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16:10<gnome42>yuv doesn't make sense to me in this context :) It's a transport stream to me :)
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16:13<xris>MoRpHeUz: I would recommend dvbrecorder.cpp :)
16:14<MoRpHeUz>xris: hhmmm.......great ;-)
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16:14<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: what other kind of stuff different from MPEG2 you think of ?
16:14<MoRpHeUz>xris: I will take a look now.....
16:14<gnome42>h.264 for sure
16:15<MoRpHeUz>gnome42: good to know...will take a look at it also..
16:15<MoRpHeUz>thanks! =)
16:16<xris>MoRpHeUz: find | grep is handy :)0
16:17<xris>MoRpHeUz: h.264 is used for HD stuff in europe. dunno if they use it for SD stuff, too.
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16:17<gbee>xris: not around here
16:18<MoRpHeUz>xris: hehe, tried "grep dvb" too many stuff hehe, so it's better to ask =)
16:19<MoRpHeUz>but it was my fault to not see dvbrecorder
16:19<gbee>well aside from SD stuff broadcast on HD channels, which is probably rare as they'd upscale most of it
16:25<MoRpHeUz>I'm starting to think that I'll need to travel to do this dvb stuff hehe (as we dont have any dvb broadcaster here....)
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16:39<janneg>MoRpHeUz: the dvbrecorder doesn't matter for your use case (if I remember it correctly)
16:40<janneg>you want some sort of on the fly transcoding, right?
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16:43<janneg>I would integrate that directly into the streaming part of the backend
16:43<MoRpHeUz>janneg: that's right...Probably dvbrecorder would be for something like scheduled recording ?
16:44<janneg>that has the advantage that it will work for all recording types
16:46<MoRpHeUz>do you have an idea where I should look for this livetv stuff ? maybe livetvchain.cpp or
16:46<janneg>the recorder classes are for hardware access and writing the data to the disk. the dvbrecorder controls DVB/ATSC hardware and writes mpeg2 transport streams almost unaltered to the disk
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16:49<gnome42>janneg: I been using LiveTV for testing a lot today and your live_startchan patch seems solid
16:49<janneg>no. most of the code you'll need is in programs/mythbackend and programs/mythtranscode
16:51<janneg>gnome42: it's unfortunaly not clean, the input handling is not fully correct
16:53<gnome42>oh, I see. It does seem better :)
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16:54<gnome42>janneg: what do you think of #3173 ?
16:55<gnome42>janneg: can you confirm the seeking problem by any chance?
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16:57<janneg>MoRpHeUz: I'm would create TranscodingFileTransfer for the backend (with code from mythtranscode)
16:58<janneg>look for FileTransfer in programs/mythbackend
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16:59<MoRpHeUz>janneg: ok! I'll take a look! thanks!!
16:59<janneg>so when a frontend requests a TranscodingFileTransfer the backend would transcode the recording before serving data to the frontend
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17:00<gbee>what's the aim here, to reduce the network bandwidth?
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17:02<MoRpHeUz>janneg: that makes sense...
17:02<janneg>maybe. I thought missing cpu power in the mobile frontend is the main issue
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17:02<MoRpHeUz>that's it
17:04<GreyFoxx>On the fly transcoding would be handy for players the require specific codecs/resolutions as well
17:04<GreyFoxx>It would be most useful
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17:05<janneg>gnome42: if it fixes the issue it's good :). I don't have enough time to look into it now :(
17:05<gnome42>janneg: sure, np
17:10<gbee>hardware mpeg4 decoder then? otherwise I'm puzzled as mpeg 2 uses less cpu to decode than mpeg 4 doesn't it?
17:10<kormoc>Aye, it does
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17:12<janneg>gbee: not necessarily. there is no need to let the resulotion untouched
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17:13<janneg>and GreyFoxx probably spoke about upnp players which are limited in the several ways
17:14<gbee>well sure, but why transcode to mpeg 4 if you're reducing the resolution? the best compromise between cpu and resolution would probably be a mpeg2
17:14<GreyFoxx>Some play only mpeg2 (media mvp), some only wmv (xbox 360) and some have resolution/bitrate limitations
17:14<gbee>not questioning on the fly transcoding in general, I was just curious about what MoRpHeUz was intending to do :)
17:14<GreyFoxx>Having an on the fly transcode lets the player pick what format, resolution and bitrate it wants
17:15<GreyFoxx>like a combo of lower bitrate (it's a wireless device) and hardware decoder capable of mpeg4
17:15<janneg>gbee: there is no need but mythtranscode doesn't support mpeg2 encoding yet
17:16<MoRpHeUz>yeah...I was saying mpeg4 all the time just to simplify the question, but the idea is to support a lot of formats/resolutions/bitrates
17:17<GreyFoxx>and there is no real reason it can't server up all videos, not just recordings, so we could live transcode mpeg4 avi's to mpeg2 for mediamvp/mpeg2 limited players and such
17:18<gbee>assuming you've got the power on the backend :)
17:18<GreyFoxx>it takes very very little depending on the requested codecs and such of course
17:18<gbee>would be good if it gets to that point though
17:18<janneg>quad core cpus are available
17:21<gbee>I was thinking earlier how getting the embedded db stuff done before 0.21 would invalidate the whole question of supporting 3.23, I'm keen enough to see that happen that I might start playing around with it
17:28<Chutt>shouldn't be hard to get something basic in place.
17:29<MoRpHeUz>well, have to go now...see you later...thanks for all the help!
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17:29<GreyFoxx>gbee: And cut down on user configuration+support
17:30<Chutt>basically: write server around libmysqld, add autodiscovery code from the upnp stuff
17:30<Chutt>- write Qt sql driver to talk to the new server
17:31<Chutt>(come up with some protocol)
17:31<Chutt>add some very basic authentication
17:32<Chutt>does anyone really really want to be in on summer of code?
17:36<gbee>finally getting somewhere on #3034
17:43<gbee>Chutt: I want to believe that SoC can actually work, but I doubt things will go any better than last year
17:46<xris>Chutt: I have a project I'd love to have worked on (flash video player), and may sign up separately from mythtv if the group as a whole chooses not to.
17:46<xris>it definitely takes a lot more work/effort to get results out of people than any of us put in last year.
17:46<xris>(including the students)
17:48<janneg>xris: you have to register this week
17:50<xris>huh? I thought I saw an email today saying that they weren't opening things up yet.
17:50<xris>well, I'll let Chutt continue the conversation, then.
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17:52<xris>I think there's also some concern that they really don't want to work with individuals anymore, but would rather send money to 501c3 groups instead (like sflc)
17:53<xris>I've done some research on sflc/spi stuff, but I Chutt has said that he doesn't really see the point, and he's in control.
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17:59<janneg>xris: "We are currently accepting applications from open source organizations. The list of selected organizations will be show here on March 14th."
17:59<xris>good enough.
18:00<janneg>so s/this week/in the next seven days/
18:04<CDev>xris: I want to change the response XML for all of the backend methods... are you using them in MythWeb?
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18:05<xris>I don't think so
18:05<xris>only the icon stuff
18:05<xris>er, preview pixmap
18:05<CDev>that won't change.
18:05<CDev>So the branch that used ajax to retrieve program guide details was never merged?
18:06<xris>nope. he basically disappeared
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18:06<CDev>excellent (not really, but makes my changes easier).
18:06<xris>he's still in the channel here, and has emailed a few times expressing interest in merging things in, but hasn't actually done much toward that end.
18:07<CDev>I haven't received any responses in the last 24 hours about the changes so I think I'm just going to make them (unless I hear any objections here!)
18:09<CDev>I think more ajax type support in mythweb would make it a more responsive interface... assuming it was implemented well... will have to wait and see if he comes back and continues his work.
18:10<Chutt>i don't know about them approving an org with only one student/project
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18:23<shodan->mpeg2 5500kbit/s , 1196mb per hour ->
18:23<shodan->h.264 800kbit/s , 380mb per hour ->
18:23<shodan->why isn't mythtv using h.264 internally ?
18:30<xris>shodan-: because encoding it in realtime isn't possible for most people?
18:32<xris>CDev: yes, more ajax would be good. but there's only so much that one can do before having to drop support for non-js, etc.
18:33<xris>Chutt: no one else is interested in mentoring projects this year?
18:33<shodan->xris, I know, it takes 3x playback time to get this kind of quality, but the space savings are worth it so it would be a perfect target for mythtrancode
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18:34<CDev>xris: The changes I'm making will change the url to retrieve pixmaps... should I commit the change to MythWeb when I commit my code, or do you want me to let you know what it will be so you can make the change?
18:34<xris>shodan-: mythtranscode uses the same encoding routines that livetv does. It will *eventually* support other formats, though.
18:35<xris>CDev: go ahead and commit to mythweb. feel free to update the perl bindings, too, if you want (or let me know what to do).
18:35<CDev>Never done perl before. I will take a look to see if it is something easy.
18:37<shodan->k, well anyway I figured a workaround of running ffmpeg on the files via cron and at the same time I switch to mp4 container and aac audio, but it would be great to still be able to do lossless commercial cutting after it's been converted.. but there surely are more pressing matters anyway !
18:37<xris>let me know if you want me to do it.
18:37<xris>shodan-: ffmpeg doesn't understand all of the input file format stuff that mythtv does.
18:38<xris>if it works for you, great, but a lot of people would get AV sync problems on output
18:40<shodan->xris I'm using mythtranscode's fifo to feed ffmpeg like nuvexport does, I have only done one episode but it turned out great so far, but in the future all my shows are going to be mpeg ts from the dvb card so ffmpeg is a bit more forgiving with those files I guess
18:40<xris>shodan-: gotcha.
18:40<xris>um, you *can* just use nuvexport for that. the mp4 mode does h.264
18:41<xris>and no, ffmpeg isn't "more forgiving"... frame glitches, etc. will still cause issues. in fact, many of them worse than you get with ivtv and even causes mythtv to freak out on some things.
18:42<shodan->well I wanted to get to know the ffmpeg syntax a little bit better, I could have just used nuvexport I guess
18:43<shodan->hmm , I'll have to convert more show, maybe I just got lucky on this one show
18:45<Chutt>xris, email the developers list and see if anyone else wants to do a student or two
18:45<Chutt>xris, if there's 3 or 4 people interested, i'll apply for the project
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18:54<xris>Chutt: willdo
18:55<Chutt>the deadline's not to far away, though
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19:17<Voting>If I have budget to hire someone to make some enhancements, who might be interested?
19:18<GreyFoxx>Voting you will get more people by using the mailing list. Most devs don't hang out here. And those that do are rarely actually here
19:20<Voting>If anyone is interested, write to ... OK, GreyFoxx... I'll do that.
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20:01<bieb>I have a question about which Hauppage card to purchase for MythTV
20:02<Anduin>bieb: ask it in the other channel
20:02<bieb>which other channel?
20:02<Anduin>bieb: In the topic (#mythtv-users)
20:02<xris>bieb: it's a good idea to read the channel topic before speaking into a channel in irc.
20:03<bieb>sorry about that, I didn't see the other windo that popped up
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 07 00:00:14 2007