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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-11-12

---Logopened Mon Nov 12 00:00:25 2007
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00:27<DrakeAnubis>meh, its raining
00:28<Tronic>Very wet and quickly melting snow, but snow nonetheless.
00:30<DrakeAnubis>Where are you that it is snowing?
00:39<Tronic>Espoo, Finland.
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02:11<Pogonip>Added mythtv to Ubuntu, but mythconverg isn't getting created, has anyone seen this?
02:12<hads>Pogonip: See the topic
02:13<Pogonip>Sorry guys.
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03:30<gbee>DAMN, card failed again overnight another three recordings lost .... starting to worry that it might be a hardware issue
03:32<gbee>or maybe not, 'on demand' was not longer set for that card .... I know I didn't change that >:(
03:33<justinh>so does that basically ensure the card gets a reset every time myth goes for it?
03:35<gbee>yeah, that and with a patch by janne it disables active EIT scanning (which doesn't work so well with the current driver for this card)
03:36<gbee>it probably wouldn't have failed at all if ondemand had been left set, but even if it had, I would only have lost 1 recording and not 3 because releasing the card would have allowed the driver to reload in between
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03:38<justinh>I should set ondemand on my cards if only to lower power consumption some
03:39<justinh>ah dunno what that'll do to EIT on 0.20-fixes though. I expect it'll always have at least one card open
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04:12<stuarta>on demand just mean it should only open the device when it wants to records
04:12<stuarta>and morning :)
04:18<justinh>morning :)
04:18<justinh>great weekend? actually felt like I had one, for a change
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04:28<stuarta>as good as could be expected
04:34<rooaus>gbee: Was there an agreement about exiting/ignoring on unrecognised theme elements?
04:35<justinh>"don't use 3rd party themes & you'll be ok" :P
04:35<gbee>rooaus: not exactly, Chutt thought it was better if we exited but didn't seem to mind if I changed that
04:36<rooaus>gbee: ok, you thought he was cool with the change then.
04:36<gbee>the problem for me is not just that is spoils backward/forwards compatibility, but that we often segfault after exiting early from those parsing functions
04:36<gbee>rooaus: yeah
04:37<gbee>his main concern was bad themes, but IMHO a theme including an unknown element isn't necessarily bad
04:37<justinh>old == bad
04:38<gbee>if it's truely bad (or very old), then it will trip up in other areas
04:38<justinh>if developers wouldn't keep changing the blimmin code to rely on new containers all the time.. ;)
04:38<rooaus>Could the theme version stuff address that (when it is implemented)?
04:38<justinh>yeah it could very well do that with aplomb
04:38<gbee>not least with the themeinfo stuff in place, since that allows for theme versioning
04:39<gbee>would have beaten you to the question, but cat jumped up on my lap ;)
04:39<justinh>it's going to be more important when more the ui code is ported over
04:39<justinh>s/more/more of
04:39<justinh>much more important
04:40<justinh>essential, even
04:41<rooaus>justinh: Yeah, that is what I was thinking. When mucking around with all the xml stuff it would be good if it didn't just exit();
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04:42<justinh>the only 'problem' with the theme version stuff is that theme designers/maintainers will have to make sure their themes work properly before just updating their xml info file
04:43<justinh>personally I'm getting to the stage now where I think if it works for me, that'll be enough
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06:18<rooaus>I just updated the Coding Standards to a minimum of QT 3.2 on the wiki as per [14402], hope that is ok.
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06:28<janneg>rooaus: minimum for trunk is Qt3.3
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06:30<rooaus>janneg: Ahhh! I looked at that a couple of times before I did it, I will bump it again if that is ok. :)
06:33<gbee>justinh: I don't see the version info as a guarantee that it works with version X of mythtv - it's more a way of saying that it _doesnt_ work with earlier versions
06:34<justinh>hmm don't think much of that then
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06:34<gbee>although I've changed my mind a couple of times, I'm thinking that the major version number will be the minimum supported mythtv version and the minor version number will be a theme version
06:34<gbee>the latter used so mythtv can eventually tell you automatically when an updated version is available
06:35<gbee>justinh: what I mean is, it's a guidance and doesn't require that you be absolutely certain of compliance before you release the theme
06:35<justinh>fairy nuff
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06:36<justinh>have to try & resist doing any new themes before more code is ported
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06:38<justinh>blootube-wide doesn't need to become a victim of bitrot. it's already pretty rotten :)
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06:42<janneg>rooaus: we are speaking of, right? the "and above" is a little bit misleading since qt4 doesn't work
06:43<janneg>s/a little bit //
06:44<justinh>qt5 anyone? ;)
06:45<justinh>or can they just use whatever qt they like so long as they port all the code? :D
06:46<rooaus>janneg: Yes. How would you word it, I just changed the point release and updated the link. Could add that "qt4 is not supported yet"
06:49<justinh>qt >= 3.3 < 4
06:49<janneg>removing the "and above" would be ok. there is no qt3.4 and the 3.3.x releases are imho included in 3.3
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06:50<stuarta>footnote1. except for that dodgy 3.3.8 release, that has since been generally patched
06:50<janneg>stating that a qt4.3 port is done in branches/mythtv-qt4 shouldn't cause harm
06:51<janneg>unpatched 3.3.8 is not really a problem. the segfault at exit has no influence on function
06:53[~]stuarta goes back to reading tcpdumps
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07:06<gbee>is it correct, in the transcoding profiles, that the "Maximum Quality" defaults to 2 and the "Minimum Quality" to 15? Isn't that contradictory?
07:06<gbee>for Mpeg4
07:07<stuarta>sounds like the quant factor
07:09<janneg>it is
07:10<gbee>the numbers make more sense when you know that, but there is no labelling to explain what the figures mean for the end user - whether higher or lower is better/worse
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07:12<justinh>not like priorities then, where many users don't know which is higher.. 10 or -10 :P
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07:44<gbee>justinh: heh, as in the withdrawn Lottery scratchcard? :D
07:48<justinh>that made me laugh when I heard about it. think that was on Friday's News Quiz
07:50<gbee>the quotes from one of the people who thought they'd won were hilarious, if just a little depressing
07:53<gbee>"I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it."
07:54<stuarta>did some people not get out of the 3rd grade?
07:54<justinh>maybe use those lottery cards as part of a test to determine whether or not they should be allowed to procreate
07:55<justinh>the thing about priorities always makes me wonder how they managed to get mythtv working at all
07:56<gbee>heh, all those mythmusic screens I though were unthemeable are themeable, just that the theme I was using as a base didn't have the windows defined
07:56<justinh>which was... ?
07:59<gbee>cdripper, import dialogues etc
07:59<justinh>hmm don't think any of mine have those
07:59<gbee>it's all in default/default-wide
07:59<justinh>not really bothered since I don't use mythmusic except in anger
08:00<gbee>bad news is that it means half a dozen more screens to theme :(
08:00<justinh>there's way too much duplication in the ui now
08:17<gbee>questionable decisions on the edit metadata page, the coverart stuff was added, but rather than stick it in it's own container with a container context, every single thing on that page was given a context
08:17<justinh>like mytharchive
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08:54[~]janneg contemplates whether he should commit the auto expirer enhancements in trunk or multirec
08:56<stuarta>if they don't need multirec functionality, then trunk
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08:59<janneg>It shouldn't have a multirec dependency but it is entirely untested with trunk
09:05<gbee>justinh: seems that context wizardry was done to workaround some code deficiency, but I've not found the problem yet
09:06<gbee>if you move the context to the container then the two containers get drawn over each other even though one shouldn't be drawn at all
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09:32<justinh>gbee: I noticed that in another part of the ui somewhere too
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09:33<gbee>I'm looking for the problem, but it's not immediately obvious
09:34<gbee>if I can't find it in the next few minutes then it's probably not worth fixing since it will probably be fixed by the move to mythui
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09:37[~]janneg has compiled trunk and it seems that the expirer patch works there too
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09:49<gbee>found it, MythThemedDialog::ReallyUpdateForeground isn't looking at the container context before drawing a blank pixmap behind it, even though it then doesn't draw the items in the container it because of the context
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09:58<gbee>I'm not actually sure what the point of the blank pixmap is yet, if we just want to erase things before redrawing, then we should probably just be calling erase(), but I guess I'll soon find out
10:08<gbee>cool, that has almost fixed it
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12:12<bradd>hmm. anyone have issues compiling mythtv svn on fedora 8 x86_64? ai am getting this error...althohgh lame is installed...
12:13<bradd>ERROR! You must have the Lame MP3 encoding library installed to compile MythTV.
12:13<bradd> [12:11pm]> rpm -qa | grep lame
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12:36<gbee>Chutt: there is a check in LayerSet::Draw() - "if (m_context == context || m_context == -1)", I want to remove it, any reason that I shouldn't?
12:37<gbee>it seems redundant since each instance of Draw in the uitypes performs the same check, but importantly for the bug I'm trying to fix, UIRemoteEditType doesn't get hidden unless Draw() is called
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13:08<gbee>forgot that uitypes don't inherit the context from their parent container, so that won't work unless I change that
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13:19<Chutt>not really worth fixing old ui code
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13:35<super-6-1>hello everyone im new to mythtv and was wondering what to do. im in ubuntu
13:36<gbee>Chutt: looking at the work involved, I'd agree, I started out just trying to fix one small bug but uncovered 3/4 in that same area and the fixes required are piling up
13:36<laga>super-6-1: you need to join #ubuntu-mythtv
13:36<super-6-1>ok thanks
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13:40<gbee>the biggest problem is that UIRemoteEditTypes in another context are still active, so they might not be visible but you still have to tab through them to navigate the visible stuff
13:42<gbee>there is a workaround though and it's already being used in mythmusic, so I'll just stick with using that for now
13:49<SanMehat>hey gbee, Chutt.
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15:18<janneg>Captain_Murdoch: ping
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16:31<laga>arabic user interface
16:31<laga>interesting. wonder if that was the guy who came in here with this OSD patches
16:35<justinh>heh there's blootube in them thar repos
16:36<laga>did they announce their project on -dev?
16:36<justinh>eew looks like they've taken blootube-wide & squished it
16:37<justinh>laga: don't think so
16:37<laga>they must really enjoy giving back
16:37<justinh>saw a post on -users which looked like 'hey did anybody see this? I just built it & it's brilliant' in a 'this post is from a random guy, not a developer' kind of way
16:38<justinh>shameless thievery.. heheh. that's open source
16:41<justinh>what the heck?!
16:42<justinh>they've got a plugin called mythappearance.. I started out doing that
16:43<laga>what does it do?
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16:43<justinh>looks like just a simpler appearance settings thing than currently in mythtv
16:44<justinh>change the theme, font size.. that's it
16:45<laga>doesn't sound too stupid actually
16:45<justinh>this looks interesting though:
16:46<laga>um, yes.
16:48<justinh>the youtube player bit is only 815 lines
16:49<justinh>linux has too many meeja players already. why not decide to help bump another project up the ladder? never makes sense all the splitting up of effort
16:50<laga>especially when you're not telling anyone about it ;)
16:52<dr_lulz> 481 wget->addArgument("sudo");
16:52<dr_lulz> 482 wget->addArgument("wget");
16:52<justinh>sudo wget?!
16:52<justinh>oh jesus
16:53<dr_lulz>i'm not really convinced by the quality of that code ;)
16:53<laga>QString defaultPlayer = gContext->GetSetting("VideoDefaultPlayer");
16:53<laga>i think something is gonna break if you use internal, isn't it?
16:53<janneg>maybe we should be glad that they don't tell anyone about this
16:53[~]justinh wonders how mythnews works with youtube then
16:53<laga>justinh: maybe Internal will work with myth_system +shrug*
16:54<stuarta>badly methinks
16:54[~]justinh shrugs off some negative theme comments
16:55<laga>i wonder where they declare ConvertFLV2MPEG
16:55<laga>might be in for some new horror there ;)
16:55<janneg>sudo ffmpeg ...
16:56<dr_lulz>i refuse to continue reading that code.
16:56<dr_lulz>just when you think it cant get worse, they get closer to rosiello quality
16:56<laga>janneg: QString strCommand = "sudo ffmpeg -y -i ";
16:56<laga>in vod.cpp
16:58<dr_lulz> 79 QString cmd_str = "sudo cp "+strSrc+" "+strDest;
16:58<dr_lulz>urgs. now i am serious
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16:58<dr_lulz>this IS gonna damage my brain
16:58<laga>well, it might just work well ;)
16:58<laga>if you remove the obviously stupid sudo bits
16:59<dr_lulz>do you really believe they do the rest better?
16:59<laga>i'm young and naive?
16:59<laga>mythcdman looks a lot like mythmusic
17:00<dr_lulz>its obviously the "copypasta and rape" programming paradigm
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17:02<laga>myth_system(QString("sudo /bin/date ")+ dateString);
17:02<laga>myth_system("sudo /sbin/hwclock --systohc");
17:03<laga>are they building a complete distro around that or is that juse a random plugin which will break stuff?
17:03<janneg>who wants to write the "heliocreek contains several root holes" mail to bugtray?
17:03<laga>dr_lulz gets all the credit
17:03<justinh>but... but .. but.. it's got youtube!
17:03<dr_lulz>urgs, please no bugtraq credit
17:05<dr_lulz>i'll stab anyone who mentions me in a bugtraq mail ;)
17:06<dr_lulz>(unless its serious trolling ;)
17:07<janneg>so claiming that you wrote the code would be ok?
17:08<dr_lulz>"dr_lulz perforced a full source code audit and was fully satisfied, no space for improvements"
17:08<gbee>hmm, so we've got a lazy fork?
17:08<gbee>and not even from trunk ...
17:09<dr_lulz>gbee: i believe their goal is to replace all the myth code bit by bit to present the "rock solid myth"
17:09<laga>myth_system("sudo mythcommflag")
17:10<dr_lulz>hrm. justinh, you just got me an idea: lets rewrite mythtv in kernelspace
17:11<dr_lulz>for moaaaar performance, just like IIS :)
17:11<gbee>I hate forks, even 'friendly' ones
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17:11<jams>laga- sure looks like a ubuntu based thing to me
17:11<dr_lulz>gbee: what about forking from half-rotten-but-still-usable code?
17:12<jams>they have several build scripts that reference ubuntu packages.
17:13<gbee>forks are usually done by someone too lazy to work with the existing project or someone who doesn't have enough faith in their own code to submit it for review
17:13<laga>they forked mythtv
17:13<laga>and mythbuntu
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17:13<gbee>if you can improve the original project, submit patches, don't just fork it - waste of everyones time and a division of labour
17:14<dr_lulz>i think forks are indeed justified if the original maintainer vanished or got weird politics
17:14<dr_lulz>nothing bad about that
17:16<gbee>dr_lulz: that's the one good reason for a fork, the only one and even then it's only justified if you've made a decent effort to revive the old project or work with the maintainer (however mad they are)
17:16<janneg>neither is the case for mythtv
17:16[~]gbee goes back to working on his theme and pretends this thread never existed
17:25<gbee>heh, ran a mpeg2 - mpeg4 transcode on a film last night, noticed just now that the transcode increased the size ...
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18:28<justinh>gbee: where was that page where you had some notes about the ui code? planning to add my musings tomorrow-ish
18:29<gbee>half a sec, I'll have to root around for the url
18:31<gbee>just found this as well, which could be handy -
18:32<justinh>cheers :)
18:33<justinh>oo I'll have my new cpu on wednesday. gonna be delivered tomorrow but I won't be in
18:34<justinh>time for bed. g'night all
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20:43<mcgillic>can anyone help me having trouble getting data direct lineups
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20:56<hads>mcgillic: Incorrect channel.
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 13 00:00:57 2007