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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-12-09

---Logopened Sun Dec 09 00:00:21 2007
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00:36<xris>Chutt: yes, I did see that fast vote. :)
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05:27<Anduin>Chutt: I can look at deleting individual changes later this weekend if needed.
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10:54<gbee>miniplayer -
10:58<gbee>doesn't actually work at the moment, since the miniplayer doesn't support theme defined positions or the progress slider, but hopefully that will get sorted
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11:48<gbee>heh, last post to #4138, "This would be a proper workaround." ... that would be a classic oxymoron
11:51<stuarta>wonder if nigel has any plans to fix his circular dependency borkage...
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12:00<gbee>EIT is still borked
12:00<stuarta>not for me
12:01<stuarta>what you seeing?
12:01<gbee>not getting any passive EIT collection
12:01<gbee>I've got active collection disabled because it triggers a driver bug in the Nova-T 500
12:02<stuarta>it's probably disabling the passive incorrectly in this state.
12:02<gbee>I've not looked into it yet, could be that a recent change is conflicting with janneg's patch to disable active scanning
12:02<stuarta>i need to crack on and write the shared eit cache
12:04<Chutt>Anduin, i don't think it's necessary, i don't recall deleting an individual change for a while
12:04<Chutt>Anduin, the spam filter seems to be doing well in that regards
12:04<stuarta>Chutt: like a comment on a ticket?
12:04<stuarta>we've used that lots to remove spam
12:05<stuarta>i'd go as far a saying it's the most commonly used way of deleting it.
12:05<stuarta>um, not me personally, but i've been mega busy
12:05<Chutt>i don't remember any spam getting through since the new spam filtering stuff went live, though
12:05<Chutt>that's all
12:06<stuarta>i think i agree
12:06<stuarta>i haven't seen any for ages
12:06<Chutt>log in to trac and check the spam logs some time
12:06<Chutt>it's blocking a _lot_
12:06<Chutt>so, =)
12:08<stuarta>so it is :)
12:09<laga>Chutt: it's blocking some legit stuff, too
12:09<Chutt>yeah, but, i don't care _that_ much :p
12:12<Chutt>and if people have a 'account'
12:12<Chutt>where they just have the email address/etc set via cookies
12:12<gbee>at least it seems to support some sort of bayesian learning, just marked a couple of legit comments as 'Ham'
12:12<Chutt>(from the preferences part)
12:13<Chutt>it pretty much guarantees it gets through
12:13<Chutt>gbee, the bayesian filter isn't enabled
12:13<Chutt>just the regexp (using the 'BadContent' wiki page)
12:14<Chutt>the 'external links' filter, which just starts adding negative values for each external link
12:14<Chutt>over 3 or so
12:14<Chutt>and the session filter one, which bumps up people with the cookies set
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12:18<hasse_>hello, im running mythtv - after an upgrade (mythbuntu), i needs the libmythtv-0.20.2* and thats not a part of my system, where to install that, please help
12:18<laga>hasse_: #ubuntu-mythtv
12:18<hasse_>ill try, thanks
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14:09<gbee>justinh: miniplayer, just awaiting the progress bar -
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14:12<justinh>oof right on the edge of the overscan area :P
14:12<justinh>looks great though
14:14<justinh>you've overtaken me gbee, certainly on my current level of motivation anyway ;)
14:16<justinh>I dunno if I can be er.. motivated to keep maintaining all those themes to keep up with current trunk at the rate it's going
14:18<justinh>I think we're soon going to be at the point where you won't be able to have backwards compatible themes at all
14:18<justinh>though now there's nothing to stop me running trunk at home - soon going to have the new frontend in its rightful place.
14:19<gbee>that point will come sooner rather than later
14:19<justinh>yeah at the current rate maybe by new year
14:19<justinh>though that might already have come actually if I think about it
14:20<justinh>I think mytharchive is what did it. one of the new areas isn't contextual & will appear on -fixes systems permanently
14:21<gbee>the more I look at the themes, the more I'd be inclined to ruthlessly cull some of the core themes and replace them with some of the newer generation, e.g. stuff from Jams, you and maybe even mepo (license restrictions allowing)
14:21<gbee>mytharchive made me cry
14:21<justinh>I'll go on record here & state I couldn't be arsed one way or the other whether any of mine go in
14:22<justinh>gbee: I wasn't making it up ;)
14:23<justinh>I know I whinge a lot but I really wasn't exaggerating about mytharchive
14:23<gbee>it might be too confrontational, but I won't theme mytharchive and I'll be honest why not
14:24<justinh>there are other reasons it needs to be looked at though, not just to save work for themers
14:25<gbee>whether it will force changes, I don't know, but I just don't have the time or enthusiasm to sort it out myself
14:25<gbee>I'd be treading all over Paul's toes even if I did and that probably wouldn't end well
14:26<justinh>ah politics ;)
14:27<gbee>in theory I could make all sorts of UI changes under the cover of the mythui port, but even porting mytharchive to mythui isn't a job I'd really want
14:28<justinh>it sounds like a really simple plugin but it's not really, I'm not sure how I'd have done it differently
14:28<justinh>but discussing how it could best go forward - a lot like the rest of mythtv - fine detail of use cases etc.. that'll take some doing
14:30<justinh>the kind of thing a dev conference would be really good for :P
14:30<gbee>like anything, it's easy to criticise
14:31<gbee>aye, it would really help to discuss ideas in person
14:37<justinh>incidentally, somebody on a mailing list brought up the subject of the scan type detection the other day. can't remember what was said about it - starting to notice recordings from channel five are flipping between interlaced & progressive when really they should always be interlaced (despite having progressive frames from time to time) :-\
14:40<gbee>seems to be an increasingly common complaint, iirc there is a ticket open for it
14:42<justinh>I'm a few days behind reading my ML traffic
14:43<gbee>eww, quality of Five US seems to be going downhill, I can count the pixels
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14:44<justinh>it's all gonna go down the toilet before long:
14:44<justinh>who the **** are they asking?
14:44<gbee>people who don't already have freeview
14:45<justinh>I think the questions should be put into context too... like "if the quality of picture was forced to degrade to make room for more channels, would you want more channels?"
14:45<justinh>there's always DVB-S though :)
14:45<gbee>it's utter bollocks, but I'm not as bothered as I was now that FreeSat is in the pipeline
14:46<justinh>yeah but then we all need quad LNBs & crap
14:46<justinh>the plus side is that hey maybe at least somebody will get round to writing some decent dvb-s wiki articles
14:47<justinh>whoah I just realised something. fitting a dish next to the computer room won't even involve going up a ladder :D step out of the window onto the kitchen extension roof
14:48<justinh>easy cable run too
14:48<stuarta>don't even have to bolt it onto the wall
14:48<justinh>I'm not good on ladders above first floor floor level
14:48<stuarta>can just sit it on a frame
14:48<gbee>so, do you need multiple LNBs because the signal doesn't split too well?
14:48<justinh>it's not that the signal doesn't split too well as such
14:48<stuarta>gbee: depends
14:49<justinh>it's more the fact that each tuner is putting power & control signals on the wire
14:49<stuarta>if you want multiple STB's then the all need to be able to control the LNB
14:49<justinh>that's why DiSecq was invented
14:49<stuarta>not quite
14:49<stuarta>well maybe
14:49<stuarta>but anyway
14:50<justinh>one of the reasons ;)
14:50<gbee>ahh, hmm guess there is stuff I don't know about satellite, here I was thinking that LNBs was just passive bits of kit
14:50<stuarta>those "multi room" $ky LNB's are in fact a Quad LNB
14:50<stuarta>the basics is that there are H & V polarizations
14:51<justinh>one LNB output per tuner & if you have multiple birds (i.e. LNBs/dishes pointed at different sats) that's where diseqc comes in
14:51<stuarta>plus high and lo IF
14:51<justinh>plus phantom power for the LNB
14:51<stuarta>then to confuse you further there are quattro LNB's
14:51<stuarta>which need a diseq switch in front of them
14:52<stuarta>but can support 4,8,16 STB's
14:52<justinh>it got a lot more complicated since the analogue astra days when I cut my teeth with satellite stuff
14:52<justinh>point dish at bird. hook cable up to STB, align dish. job done
14:52<stuarta>the quad LNB's basically have inbuilt diseq switches so they look like a simple LNB to the STB
14:52<justinh>tea time :)
14:53<stuarta>been there done that
14:53<gbee>more complex than I thought, I mean the multiple dish per sat is obvious, but I thought the LNB passed down all the data and the box/card handled the rest
14:54<stuarta>pretty much
14:54<stuarta>but the STB must tell the LNB which polarization & IF to use
14:54<gbee>stuarta: yeah, that's the bit I didn't know
14:55<stuarta>so most of the stuff we were just talking about, is designed to present a single LNB to the STB
14:55<stuarta>apart from the setups where you point multiple LNB's at different birds
14:56<gbee>yeah, probably won't be as simple as I thought though to hookup some DVB-S cards with my existing dish/lnb, guess I'll work it out as I go along
14:57<stuarta>actually, provided it's still pointed at a bird, you should be okay
14:57<stuarta>anything else connected to the dish atm?
14:58<gbee>stuarta: no
14:58[~]stuarta has a sat socket on the wall and no dvb-s card...
14:58<stuarta>should be good then
14:59<gbee>I was looking at dvb-s cards starting around £20, for that price I can afford to experiment without really losing much if it doesn't work out
15:06<stuarta>hmmm, 30 quid + vat.
15:06<stuarta>wonder if that's supported.
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15:34<gbee>my gut instinct would tell me to stay well clear of a hybrid tuner this cheap, but:
15:34<Dibblah>If you're thinking of Twinhan / clones, avoid.
15:34<Dibblah>Hmmm. Silicon tuner.
15:36[~]Dibblah would recommend something similar to
15:36<gbee>any other ideas for a DVB-S tuner would be appreciated, I thought justinh had linked a cheap one the other week but I can't find it
15:36<laga>maybe you want to get one with a (optional) CI
15:36<stuarta>Dibblah: that puppy have linux drivers?
15:36<laga>not sure about what CAMs you need/can use over there
15:36<Dibblah>Unless they've revved the board, of course.
15:37<stuarta>no point, none of them would be techically legal
15:37<Dibblah>Err... Should we shift across to -users for this discussion?
15:37<stuarta>no that's logged :)
15:37<gbee>laga: unlikely to even consider paying Sky a penny, so it's not really an issue
15:37<stuarta>and we are dev's discussing our hardware requirements ;-)
15:38<gbee>for development purposes, of course ;)
15:38<Dibblah>If you are willing to spend a bit more (and not have a CI), Skystar works really well.
15:39<stuarta>i'm tempted by dvb-s2, however i suspect there's bugger all driver support
15:39<Dibblah>True still, unfortunately.
15:39<Dibblah>There is some, but it's all in seperate trees.
15:40<Dibblah>Much like most of the DVB developers at this point.
15:40<gbee>might consider a more expensive card if I decide that dvb-s is worth it in my setup, but until then I'd go with the cheapest working card
15:40<stuarta>think i'd get a proper production setup first.
15:41<Dibblah>And S2 also requires Myth changes (so far unspecified).
15:41<Dibblah>VDR has apparently done something in a branch.
15:44<stuarta>looks like it comes with a remote for an extra 5.5 euro which isn't bad
15:45<gbee>yeah, I was just wondering if the remote worked with lirc - it's USB which is a definite plus for use with my laptop frontend
15:45<gbee>hmm, ?12 isn't it? or are you looking at another card?
15:46<stuarta>light "basic edition" vs light
15:46<Dibblah>The remote dongle is a serial thing.
15:46<Dibblah>Should be LIRC compatible.
15:47<Dibblah>Oh, different?
15:47<gbee>ahh, ok, the basic edition offers a USB remote for an extra ?12
15:47[~]stuarta suspects it's a option.
15:50<gbee>it is
15:50<gbee>no pictures or description of the remote, so no idea what it's like or whether it's worth the ?12
15:52<janneg>mythtv crashes the xserver on my new notebook :(
15:53<stuarta>thats not nice...
15:53<janneg>it's probably my fault since I use the newest intel driver with older xorg server and mesa
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16:22<justinh>gbee: the one I linked was on scan
16:23<justinh>was about £20
16:24<gbee>had a look just before, couldn't find it, but then scan's site isn't the easiest to search
16:24<janneg>a warning regarding the technisat skystar. there is a new revision 2.7 which is not (yet?) supported
16:28<justinh>gbee: seems I might've made a mistook. it was the leadtek dtv1000S, which is still dvb-t
16:28<gbee>ahh, ok - well shows how much attention I must have been paying then
16:28<justinh>I think what fooled me is that there's also a dtv1000T
16:30<justinh>come to think about it, I wasn't the one who posted the link but I cooed ;)
16:31<gbee>ok, looks like the one Dibblah linked is the best bargin card
16:31<justinh>whoah nice.. gone are MS corefonts from some themes eh? :)
16:32<gbee>justinh: not really, just a few default files, if you want to sort out the rest, I'm sure you'll earn the eternal gratitude of newbies everywhere
16:32<justinh>heh ok
16:33<justinh>I've had a few noob moments this weekend. tried building a kernel & monged it
16:33<gbee>it's not really a good as it sounds, since as many people will be missing Bitstream fonts as those missing MS fonts
16:34<justinh>yeah but it won't be in a restricted package at least
16:34<gbee>but at least the bitstream fonts can be legally distributed
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17:01<gbee>ffs, ntpd isn't working on my backend and I can't figure out why
17:01<gbee>it had lost 2 minutes and this isn't the first time
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17:46<justinh>damnit. shoulda bought a Sky navigator remote instead of this crap ondigital one
17:54<gbee>if you can live without the keyboard, then I'd pick the MCE remote over the Sky Navigator
17:55<justinh>I can def. live without the ugly USB box
17:55<gbee>cheaper than the Navigator too
17:55<justinh>not at £5 on ebay
17:55<gbee>justinh: don't have to use the IR receiver/blaster
17:56<gbee>can be used with any IR receiver
17:56<gbee>justinh: I'll admit I didn't know that the Navigator was going for that price on Ebay, used to seeing it sell for £30+ on the High Street
17:57<justinh>the whole point is the keyboard. don't need it all that often but great to have :) love just having one non-menu driven remote too
17:58<justinh>hold on a sec. If I'm not mistaken I have a bbc hd clip on the HDD of the LRL machine
17:58<justinh>bah I'll get it tomorrow
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18:00<justinh>be nice if there was a remote just like my OFA-6 (programmable with geek-fu) but with more buttons
18:00<gbee>justinh: it's a nice clip, but IMHO just skip the Jools Holland bit and go to the BBC HD trailer section near the end, it's beautiful
18:00<justinh>heh. if it plays, it plays
18:01<justinh>still a bloody crime to replace that epia crap with something about 6 times more powerful than my desktop though
18:02<gbee>transcodes to what I think is MPEG-4 part 14, it plays back brilliantly on my laptop and combined with my new monitor the result looks great
18:02<justinh>my 2nd monitor hasn't been plugged into my deskto for about 14 days now
18:03<justinh>trying to think of a use I can put the epia board to when it's run its course. might need something to wedge the door open with...
18:04<gbee>heh, I think stuarta was angling for it
18:04<justinh>what for? it takes up more space than it is useful
18:05<justinh>to think I paid a hundred notes for that too :-\
18:05<justinh>it really doesn't matter how much electricity you're saving if the show you're watching is going duh... duh.... duh...
18:06<justinh>save even more by switching it off!
18:06<justinh>oh I meant to ask something about a recent commit
18:07<justinh>mythgallery - I had a patch submitted from otto for blootubelite-wide - I patched blootube-wide too but do you think any others are affected too?
18:09<gbee>could well be other themes affected, I didn't check
18:09<justinh>I'll have a look when I get by dev box up again. won't be long now
18:09<justinh>I want to get cracking on things again. making the frontend work didn't hurt my brain enough
18:10<gbee>ok thanks, I could take a look too, just want to get this mythweather stuff out of the way, some pretty minor changes snowballed into something much larger :(
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18:13<gbee>Lucien did a good job with the mythweather revamp, but a couple of his ideas don't work well in practice, so I'm having to sort that out
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18:16<Anduin>How much will whitespace changes to video-ui.xml irritate theme folk?
18:17<gbee>Anduin: not at all I'd think, since it won't break any themes
18:18<justinh>I vote for any changes that don't make me do work :)
18:18<Anduin>gbee: Yeah, I've just noticed in other core themes, well that it is often very close, just wondering if people regularly diff them (even if only visually)
18:18<Anduin>justinh: Not work saving, just consistent indent
18:19<justinh>Anduin: nice indenting is still on my to-do list for all my xml files. one fine day
18:19<gbee>Anduin: personally I don't, but I've done one theme and I'm probably not representative of themers in general ;)
18:20<gbee>Anduin: I've been using the same indentation as the code on my theme, 4 space as well as seperating all widget definitions by a line
18:21<gbee>massive improvement to readability
18:21<justinh>heh. not much past splitting up ui.xml will do it for me IMHO
18:21<Anduin>I was going to go with four originally but three seems to be predominant in other xml files
18:22<justinh>Anduin: anyway, of all the stuff you'd see me object to, whitespace isn't one of them things
18:22<Anduin>gbee: You MythUI work is going to start after the release?
18:22<justinh>if that counts for anything
18:23<gbee>Anduin: I'll start before, but whether it get checked in or not depends on Chutt
18:23<Anduin>It does, I'm going to apply a patch that adds a new dialog (manual title, as much as I hate it), I'm going to make it optional for themers as well.
18:23<justinh>and as for the mythui porting.. full steam ahead I say, couldn't happen fast enough no matter how much gets borked in the short term
18:23<gbee>in theory I can convert over screens and plugins one at a time without breaking other areas
18:23<jams>Anduin- it's an ok with me to go ahead with the whitespace changes.
18:24<gbee>spacing scheme I've been following:
18:24<Anduin>gbee: Do you mind somewhat low-level additions to the wiki on MythUI?
18:25<justinh>gbee: nice. wish I was as fastidious
18:25<justinh>I've considered making a script or 2 to tidy all mine up
18:25<gbee>justinh: kate helps, it can sort out the indentation for the whole file in a single click
18:25<Anduin>gbee: I'm cuddling start/end tags but the same mostly.
18:25<justinh>really? hahaha.
18:26<gbee>the spacing I do as I work through the file, helps to see where I've got up to ;)
18:26<jams>gbee- do you have a color scheme for kate?
18:26<jams>i have yet to find one that really works for me
18:26<gbee>jams: just using the default
18:26<justinh>last thing I plan to do this year is roll out a 'xmas pack' for glass-wide. no idea if it'll happen in time though
18:26<jams>ah thats way to bright for me
18:27<gbee>jams: the white background?
18:27<gbee>can be a bit much, but I've got used to it
18:27<justinh>off to bed. g'night all
18:28<gbee>in the past I've spent time creating custom schemes, but I always forget to back them up and they get lost when I reinstall/upgrade, so I stopped bothering
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19:04<gbee>Anduin: what do you think about replacing the default font in mythvideo with "Bitstream Vera Sans"? I've done it elsewhere. As Justin and I were discussing earlier, depending on a font which can be legally distributed is preferable to the MS fonts
19:11<gbee>DejaVu Sans, might actually make a better default, it's BVS with extra (non Latin) character support
19:29<Anduin>gbee: One sec, let me install bitstream-vera and look
19:29<gbee>Anduin: np
19:29<Anduin>If I read the scollback correctly, this isn't going to require everyone to install bitstream-vera (as you would then include it)?
19:30<gbee>Anduin: that would be desirable, although I need to read up on how to have QT look at a custom location for fonts
19:32<gbee>even if we don't do that though, BVS/DVS are more likely to be installed by default for most distros than MS Corefonts
19:32<gbee>if BVS/DVS aren't installed, then QT will attempt to find a similar looking font that _is_ available on the system, so it shouldn't fail entirely
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19:44<Anduin>gbee: Ok, I don't have an real objections.
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19:46<gbee>just reading up on embedding fonts with QT, it's very easy and even seems to suggest there are memory/cpu time savings to be had (though I'm dubious)
19:46<gbee>at the very least, it should solve the problems people have had with blank menus because they didn't have fonts installed
19:48<gbee>or Chutt's recent problem of having the wrong type of font installed, so lacking anti-aliasing
19:51<gbee>aww, only applies to QT/Embedded ... so much for that idea
19:51[~]gbee goes to bed
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20:54<LotharTBL>hello anyone home?
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23:56<emily_>ok i have mythtv front end and backend working on two different machines...they connect..but I'm thinking i missed something. Will the backend stream my .avi videos the the front end?
23:56<emily_>*sigh* sorry..wrong chan
---Logclosed Mon Dec 10 00:00:57 2007